HDC Presents: 100 Years of Horror

[fortunato]

Don't know if I'm doing this right, but I'd like to back The Changeling and The Beyond.

[_____V_____]

Welcome to the decision-making process, fort.

We have found our 22nd film, and it's The Changeling, which joins The Fog in the Top 22 list.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=99

All in agreement or there's more scope for debate over the two films above?

[metternich1815]

Those two are fine with me.

[Sculpt]

I would have backed Near Dark, as I think it's a better film than either of the films I did back, but it wasn't in the right category.
Allow me to quote you again. I agree, I think Near Dark is a better film than The Fog. Much better actually.

I have to Neg The Fog - I'm a huge Carpenter fan, but the Fog is too flawed to be in the Top 22. To quote some Fog reviews that say it better than me, "dull collection of stock types whose illogical and frequently stupid actions are necessary to advance plot and generate what passes for suspense." and "Fairly dull ghost story occasionally given a boost by the cast and by Carpenter's proficiency with the genre." That's what I thought as well. It has major flaws and very mixed reviews. I don't think it's worthy to be in the Top 22. Carpenter is represented in the Top 22 with The Thing. I'm going to Neg The Fog, and see what happens.

I think The Return of the Living Dead (1985) and Near Dark (1987) are much more deserving. Even Carpenters' They Live and Christine were better, as is Day of the Dead and Predator.

[metternich1815]

Allow me to quote you again. I agree, I think Near Dark is a better film The Fog. Much better actually.

I'm a huge Carpenter fan, and thought the Fog was OK, and had some nice features, but, to quote some reviews that say it better than me "dull collection of stock types whose illogical and frequently stupid actions are necessary to advance plot and generate what passes for suspense." and "Fairly dull ghost story occasionally given a boost by the cast and by Carpenter's proficiency with the genre." That's what I thought as well. I don't think it's worthy to be in the Top 22. Carpenter is represented in the Top 22 with The Thing. I'm going to Neg The Fog, and see what happens.

I think The Return of the Living Dead (1985) and Near Dark (1987) are much more deserving.

I completely disagree. It may not have been his most brilliant film, but, in my opinion, but it is still pretty brilliant. I think the story/premise is very interesting and the atmosphere was perfect. The acting was excellent and on that note the film featured THREE scream queens (Adrienne Barbeau, Jamie Lee Curtis, and Janet Leigh). This film is also genuinely creepy. Of course, one can not forget the score, which was creepy and beautiful. I think this film is a classic (and far from okay) that definitely deserves a place in the top 22. I do agree that Return of the Living Dead and Near Dark are excellent, but I, personally, would still rank The Fog above them.

[neverending]

Okay, I'll play. I backed The Fog mainly for sentimental reasons, though I do think the opening is BRILLIANT, one of the best sequences Carpenter ever filmed, with a masterful performance by Houseman. I loved Barbeau as the sultry radio host, and loved presenting those bits during my Halloween broadcasts, but ultimately the plot descends into silliness.

So, I remove my backing of The Fog and give it to Near Dark.

[Giganticface]

So with neverending dropping his vote for The Fog and Sculpt's neg, if I'm counting right, it looks like a three horse race for the final spot between RotLD, Near Dark and The Beyond. Wow, tough choice. I agree with neverending's assessment of The Fog having a brilliant beginning, but not that much to write home about after that. For me, it's a huge drop off from Halloween and The Thing -- much more than The Brood is from other Cronenberg films in contention.

I love K-Demon's plea for RotLD. I think she's right -- the film is influential. As a middle schooler, my cousin and I used to go around saying "braaaiiins," and I had never even seen the movie back then. It's a more accessible take on the genre than Romero's, and is a precursor to the comedy horror trend that picked up in the 90s. I love how it directly references Romero's film as a plot setup device, and makes "the guy that made the movie" complicit in a government cover-up. Really good, well-liked movie.

I only watched Near Dark after metternich mentioned in the Last Seen Movie thread. I'm really wondering how I had never heard of this one before that. Great film. I loved it, and I'm not all that big on vampire films. Immersive soundtrack by Tangerine Dream. The group kill scene in the bar had me rooting for the victims to be spared. True Blood has lifted more than a couple details straight from this film. Perhaps a little too perfect an ending for my tastes, but overall, very enjoyable.

Both of those films are excellent choices for the top 22, but in the end, I've got to go with my original vote. I had The Beyond ranked #9 overall in my submission for the 80s. It's surreal, has some excellent, creative practical gore effects, and spiders that bite people's faces off. I enjoy zombies, but typically they don't scare me. The slow, staring ones in this film do, as does that chick's eyes. Some might not enjoy the non-linear nature of the story, or might consider it nonsensical, which is fair, but for someone that enjoys surrealism and the bizarre, I think it makes more sense than it's often believed to. Even if it didn't, it wouldn't matter. I'd choose the film that had the most impact on me, and this one is it.

[_____V_____]

All added.

The Fog drops out of the 22nd spot, and The Beyond sneaks in.

4 other films (as underlined) are staring at that 22nd spot as well, so it's still up for grabs.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=99

Keep the thoughts coming.

[realdealblues]

I'll back The Beyond (1981) for the final spot.

[_____V_____]

Looks like The Beyond has just sealed the 22nd spot with that backing by realdealblues.

All in agreement? If yes, we can start on the Honorable Mentions.

[The Villain]

Works for me

[metternich1815]

Those choices are fine with me, even though I love The Fog.

[Straker]

So are we still trying to fill one spot for the 22nd?

If so then I think I have to go with The Fog. For me, Adrienne Barbeau as Stevie Wayne is what really sets this movie apart. Its such an innovative movie in the way that it uses her character. The scenes where Stevie, from her radio tower, directs the towns folk to safety are really clever. She becomes more than simply a character in the movie, she is almost an extension of the audience at this point, before then being dragged head long back into the movie when her radio shack is under siege. I can't really articulate exactly what it is about the way her character plays out, but for me, there is something really special about it.

That said, I'm not going to have any complaints if The Fog doesn't make it, there are plenty of solid films being backed that I certainly would be backing for honourable mentions myself if they don't squeeze into the final spot before. There are still one or two flicks I'd like to get behind for honourable mentions too that haven't had much backing yet, so I'm hoping there will still be a bit of room for debate once we nail on the 22nd film. :cool:

[Sculpt]

As long as I've gone this far, I might as well be up front to the end. I think the Fog is a better film than The Beyond. I just saw Beyond recently. I can try to appreciate it as "a nightmare" (as it's often very illogical and disjointed), but I think the story and characters are very weak, as if just excuses for gore effects. There's creepy mood to it, but still not a very good film. I'm negging The Beyond, whether if makes any difference or not. Hopefully there's someone(s) out there who can back a better film, such as The Return of the Living Dead, Near Dark, Day of the Dead or Predator.

[Giganticface]

Agree.....

(Agreeing to the selected 22. Not to re-opening the debate or neg-voting The Beyond.)

Also, Sculpt, if I'm being honest, all the neg voting is starting to look like an abuse of that process element for the purpose of shaping the list to your personal tastes. Remember, this is all subjective. Some people love The Fog, some people don't. Some people enjoy a loosely-defined, non-linear format, some people don't get it. IMO, the decision to neg vote should be made with a good deal of discretion. I didn't use a neg vote during the 60s, when nobody except metternich was willing to drop even their 6th favorite film from a list already outside the top 22 for the decade, for the guy -- Mario Bava -- who made the first Italian horror film, the first slasher and created the template for J-horror, [edit:strikethrough (subjective)]and unlike some of the classics of that decade, his works holds up to this day. That is not a matter of personal taste, and yet I still resisted. Seriously man, ease up a bit.

[_____V_____]

All this is achieving is making everyone run in circles, and delaying the decision process. This project is already over-delayed as it is, and I really hope we have the sticky up before Halloween season kicks in. (hopefully!)

Plus, I think I'll put that ONE negative vote ruling into effect from now, even though there was a SECOND negative vote cast by the same member.

A THIRD negative vote is out of the question here.

It's pretty much abusing the liberty one is given, by negative voting those films which simply aren't to their likings or tastes.

Although, to be frank, even that negative vote for The Beyond won't affect it much, since it's still ahead of it's nearest competitors.

Unless someone else speaks against the film, it won't drop out of that 22nd slot anytime soon.

But, in the interest of fairness, I'll keep this open for 12 more hours. If things stand as they are right now, The Beyond will seal it's place in the Top 22 and we start working on our Honorable Mentions.


EDIT - Just went back to check the date when I bumped this dead & buried project to revive it. It was November last year!! My word, 10 months of decision-making! Should be some sort of a record, this.

[Giganticface]

... I really hope we have the sticky up before Halloween season kicks in. (hopefully!)

Ooh, good call. That would be great timing.

EDIT - Just went back to check the date when I bumped this dead & buried project to revive it. It was November last year!! My word, 10 months of decision-making! Should be some sort of a record, this.

Dang, that's a lot of work you've put in. Much appreciated. I will say, I'm not complaining that it's been a long-running thread. It's by far my favorite thread on this forum. Although, at times it does seem to stagnate a bit, no fault of yours... Thanks for helping us power through it.

[Straker]

We're in the home stretch now. :cool:

[The Villain]

Come on everybody. Let's decide already

[neverending]

I'll back The Beyond.

[_____V_____]

Thanks, but it wouldn't have been possible without everyone's contributions, Giganticface. So, pat on the backs from me to everyone involved in this project!

NE's stamp of approval pretty much seals the deal for our Top 22 films for the 80s.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=99

Let's now look at the frontrunners for the Honorable Mentions...

The Return of the Living Dead
The Fog
Near Dark
Predator

...have 3 backings each. The Fog has 4 backings but a negative vote too, so that's 3 overall.

In addition, there are a bunch of films with 2 backings each (underlined as well) - Demons, Child's Play, Christine, and Day of the Dead.

So we have EIGHT films vying for those SIX spots. There are other films with single backings which could spring a surprise as well.

So, let's hear 'em, folks.

[metternich1815]

Films that I'll back that I have not already backed will be (if I already backed one of these, then I apologize, but I am pretty sure I did not):

Return of the Living Dead
Pumpkinhead
Day of the Dead

I realize that I have, technically, backed more than six, but, to be honest, I believe all the films that I have backed deserve a place on the honorable mention section, so whichever ones make it would be fine with me.

Clearly, the 1980s was a great time for the horror genre, in my opinion.

[Giganticface]

I'll hopefully help seal the deal on two great films that others have made compelling pleas for:

Return of the Living Dead
Near Dark

[Edit]
I'll also back Demons because those demons are straight up rabid.

I'll also back Sleepaway Camp for being so unique in so many ways -- the real child actors, the screwed up exploitative themes, the terrible, Basket Case level, acting, and of course the WTF ending that you couldn't forget, even if you wanted to.

[The Villain]

Return of The Living Dead
Pumpkinhead
Near Dark
The Fog
Predator
Child's Play

[Kandarian Demon]

Apart from the ones I already backed, I will back Pumpkinhead, Demons and Day of the Dead.

[_____V_____]

Okay, all are duly added, and it looks like Return of the Living Dead and Near Dark have pretty much sealed themselves in the chosen SIX. (with 6 and 5 backings, respectively)

Our Honorable Mentions looks like this right now:-

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=99

The Fog has sneaked in despite a negative vote because it has 5 backings.

Underlined a few other films under the DEBATABLE section which are still in the fray for a spot in the SIX.

If we mutually agree on the FIVE finalised ones under Honorable Mentions, then we have to pick one between Pumpkinhead and Predator for that final Honorable Mentions spot (both have 3 backings each - Pumpkinhead has 4 with a negative vote, while the rest of the underlined have 2 each).

Keep the thoughts coming, folks.

[metternich1815]

I will withdraw my backing of Pumpkinhead. It is a great film, but, in my opinion, Predator is a clearly superior film.I agree with the other five chosen choices, they are all great films that deserve to be in the honorable mentions section.

[Straker]

Near Dark
Demons
Cat People
Blue Velvet

There's one other movie that I'm going to back that wasn't part of my original 20, it was a movie I considered but decided against, but I think it is perfect as an 'honourable mention' type of film. I'm not really expecting it to make the list, I just feel that I should back it. Also if people don't think its fair to back a movie that wasn't in the lists then I totally understand that and I'm not trying to be a dick or stagnate the process, so please just ignore this if it seems inappropriate.

Street of Crocodiles (1986): This is an amazing animated short from The Quay brothers. Its hard to really give a synopsis and the plot is secondary to the experience. This movie really is visual cinema at its best, dripping with bizarre nightmarish imagery it really is a surreal masterpiece. This is a world of decayed porcelain dolls and unknown mechanical contraptions that really needs to be seen to be appreciated. The beautiful stop motion just adds to the surreal nature of the movie. I think its the sort of movie that every fan of surreal cinema needs to see, but equally that so many horror fans will adore.

I appreciate that there are some great movies pushing for just a few slots and I'm aware that I tend to back movies that aren't so well known. At this point in the process I'm not looking to slow things down, this is just a backing for a movie that I adore and I would've felt wrong for not supporting it. But, here is a link to the movie, its only 20mins and while I doubt it will be for everyone, I think its bizarre and interesting enough for at least some of you to get a real kick out of.

EgqmXK1pf7Y

[metternich1815]

Near Dark
Demons
Cat People
Blue Velvet

There's one other movie that I'm going to back that wasn't part of my original 20, it was a movie I considered but decided against, but I think it is perfect as an 'honourable mention' type of film. I'm not really expecting it to make the list, I just feel that I should back it. Also if people don't think its fair to back a movie that wasn't in the lists then I totally understand that and I'm not trying to be a dick or stagnate the process, so please just ignore this if it seems inappropriate.

Street of Crocodiles (1986): This is an amazing animated short from The Quay brothers. Its hard to really give a synopsis and the plot is secondary to the experience. This movie really is visual cinema at its best, dripping with bizarre nightmarish imagery it really is a surreal masterpiece. This is a world of decayed porcelain dolls and unknown mechanical contraptions that really needs to be seen to be appreciated. The beautiful stop motion just adds to the surreal nature of the movie. I think its the sort of movie that every fan of surreal cinema needs to see, but equally that so many horror fans will adore.

I appreciate that there are some great movies pushing for just a few slots and I'm aware that I tend to back movies that aren't so well known. At this point in the process I'm not looking to slow things down, this is just a backing for a movie that I adore and I would've felt wrong for not supporting it. But, here is a link to the movie, its only 20mins and while I doubt it will be for everyone, I think its bizarre and interesting enough for at least some of you to get a real kick out of.

EgqmXK1pf7Y

In my opinion, it is fine to back films that were not in my list because I have backed several, possibly a dozen (maybe more) films that were not in my list. Either because I believe now they should make the list or when I made the list I had not seen the film.

[The Villain]

I agree on the finalized films. Between Pumpkinhead and Predator, I'll go with Predator for the final spot. Its the better of the two films.

[neverending]

Pumpkinhead
Near Dark
Blue Velvet (Frank Booth is one scary SOB)
Demons
Sleepaway Camp (Bigface makes a convincing case for it)
Cat People (This is just a brilliant film with mind-blowing imagery, stunning art direction, stellar performances and a knockout soundtrack)

[Sculpt]

Thanks for posting Streets of Crocodiles! I never would have seen this if you hadn't posted it. I'm an aficionado of the art form. The sets, photography and music are very beautiful and unique (to me). One doesn't often hear classical violin, cello, harpsichord and flute with juice harp. I had to laugh when the engineers displayed the different length screws to the released puppet man. I needed to read the plot/themes on Wikipedia to see if I was understanding the subtle meanings/themes. Would love to see this on the big screen. I look forward to seeing their other works.

For Honorable Mentions, I'm good with the top 5, and believe Predator is the worthy 6th. Besides my 5 backings already noted on the list page, I also support Streets of Crocodiles as the 6th.

Also, Cat People is beautifully shot. Giorgio Moroder musical score is excellent. Love his compositions What a Feeling, Danger Zone, Take My Breathe Away, theme for NeverEnding Story.

[Straker]

Thanks for posting Streets of Crocodiles! I never would have seen this if you hadn't posted it.

Glad you enjoyed it, you'll find plenty of reviews and essays online to help with some of the meanings and subtext but while interesting reading, you are unlikely to be fully satisfied with the interpretation of others. So much of it works on a subconscious level and fires up your own imagination and while you (meaning the viewer) might feel like you don't fully understand it, there is something in the imagery that just resonates.

[Sculpt]

Glad you enjoyed it, you'll find plenty of reviews and essays online to help with some of the meanings and subtext but while interesting reading, you are unlikely to be fully satisfied with the interpretation of others. So much of it works on a subconscious level and fires up your own imagination and while you (meaning the viewer) might feel like you don't fully understand it, there is something in the imagery that just resonates.
Yes, I know what you mean. One can feel one's heart resonating with the subconscious' interpretations of the imagery and music, so to speak. [Interesting to note: studies reveal the electrical signature waves, seen between heart beats, have recognizable wave signatures correlating to emotional states (anger, fear, compassion, etc). Ancient references to the heart have more basis than originally thought.]

[fortunato]

Gonna absolutely put everything behind Sleepaway Camp.

One of the most imaginative and unique American horror films ever made, it plays with genre conventions (almost in a Lynchian way). It utilizes soap-opera drama to contrast with increasingly bizarre murder scenes, as well as dealing (tangentially?) with gender/sexuality issues. And the ending. My God. A master stroke that, in one jaw-dropping instant, recontextualizes everything that came before it, casting an instant haze of sickening confusion and creeping menace. Here's a little blurb I wrote for it quite some time ago if you're looking for additional backup on this movie: http://enjoythemonologue.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/scary-scarier-scariest/

[_____V_____]

Looks like our 6th Honorably Mentioned film won't be either Pumpkinhead or Predator, but Sleepaway Camp!

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=99

Although, both films can still contend for that spot with one more backing.

Have your say, folks.

[Straker]

I'll back Sleepaway Camp.... I think its received enough strong backings to make it a worthy inclusion so I'm happy to get behind it too.

[metternich1815]

I would have liked Predator (1987) to have at least made honorable mentions (for the reasons I described earlier in this thread). It definitely deserves it, but those six choices are really great and they are fine with me.

[Giganticface]

Gonna absolutely put everything behind Sleepaway Camp.

One of the most imaginative and unique American horror films ever made, it plays with genre conventions (almost in a Lynchian way). It utilizes soap-opera drama to contrast with increasingly bizarre murder scenes, as well as dealing (tangentially?) with gender/sexuality issues. And the ending. My God. A master stroke that, in one jaw-dropping instant, recontextualizes everything that came before it, casting an instant haze of sickening confusion and creeping menace. Here's a little blurb I wrote for it quite some time ago if you're looking for additional backup on this movie: http://enjoythemonologue.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/scary-scarier-scariest/

Nice writeup, and beyond that, great blog. I dig your writing style. I don't suppose you plan to start updating it again? I'd definitely RSS that shiz. Love the post about the movie posters.

[The Villain]

Id prefer having Predator and Pumpkinhead in after thinking about it but I dont want to hold things up. So those are good with me.

[_____V_____]

Okay, enough are in favor so we seal the 80s here. These are our final chosen films...

IN THE CUT

A Nightmare on Elm Street (1984) - 10

Evil Dead II (1987) - 9
The Evil Dead (1981) - 9
The Shining (1980) - 9

The Thing (1982) - 8

Friday the 13th (1980) - 7
Hellraiser (1987) - 7
Poltergeist (1982) - 7

Aliens (1986) - 6
An American Werewolf in London (1981) - 6
Fright Night (1985) - 6
Re-Animator (1985) - 6

Basket Case (1982) - 5
Videodrome (1983) - 5

Cannibal Holocaust (1980) - 4
Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (1986) - 4
The Fly (1986) - 4

Pet Sematary (1989) - 3
Scanners (1981) - 3
The Howling (1981) - 3

The Changeling (1980) (backed by Straker, seconded by The Villain, Giganticface, metternich1815, fortunato)
The Beyond (1981) - 3 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by [i]tiberius, fortunato, Giganticface, realdealblues, neverending) [IN]


---------------------------------------------------------

HONORABLE MENTIONS

The Return of the Living Dead (1985) - 4 (backed by Sculpt, seconded by natedog722, Kandarian Demon) {metternich1815*, Giganticface*, The Villain*}
Demons (1985) - 4 (backed by The Villain, seconded by Straker) {Giganticface*, Kandarian Demon*, neverending*}
Day of the Dead (1985) - 3 (backed by Sculpt, seconded by realdealblues) {metternich1815*, Kandarian Demon*}
The Fog (1980) - 3 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by natedog722, Kandarian Demon, Straker) {The Villain*} (-1)
Near Dark (1987) - 2 (backed by neverending, seconded by metternich1815, Sculpt) {Giganticface*, The Villain*, Straker*}
Sleepaway Camp (1983) - 2 (backed by metternich1815) {Giganticface*} {neverending*} {fortunato*} {Straker*}



DEBATABLE


Gremlins (1984) - 4

Child's Play (1988) - 3 (backed by The Villain, seconded by realdealblues)
Christine (1983) - 3 (backed by Sculpt, seconded by natedog722)
Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981) - 3 (backed by The Villain)
Prince of Darkness (1987) - 3
Pumpkinhead (1988) - 3 (backed by neverending, seconded by The Villain) {Kandarian Demon*} (-1)
Santa Sangre (1989) - 3



MINORITY

A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors (1987) - 2
Bad Taste (1987) - 2
Cat People (1982) - 2 {Straker*} {neverending*}
Cujo (1983) - 2 (backed by The Villain)
Friday the 13th Part III (1982) - 2 (backed by The Villain)
From Beyond (1986) - 2
Pin (1988) - 2
Poltergeist II: The Other Side (1986) - 2
Predator (1987) - 2 (backed by The Villain, seconded by metternich1815, tiberius)
Psycho II (1983) - 2
The Entity (1982) - 2
The Gate (1987) - 2 (backed by The Villain)
The Lost Boys (1987) - 2 (backed by The Villain)
The Vanishing (1988) - 2



SINGLE VOTES TO

A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 2: Freddy's Revenge (1985)
Altered States (1980)
Angst (1983)
Baxter (1989)
Blue Velvet (1986) (backed by neverending) {Straker*}
Children of the Corn (1984)
Combat Shock (1984)
Creepshow (1982)
DeepStar Six (1989)
Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter (1984)
The Funhouse (1981)
Galaxy of Terror (1981)
Ghost Story (1981)
Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers (1988)
Hellbound: Hellraiser II (1988)
Inferno (1980)
Killer Klowns From Outer Space (1988)
Le notti del terrore (1981)
Leviathan (1989)
Link (1986)
Maniac Cop (1988)
Maximum Overdrive (1986)
Men Behind the Sun (1988)
Monkey Shines (1988)
Motel Hell (1980)
Mr. Vampire Saga (1985)
Ms. 45 (1981) (backed by neverending)
My Bloody Valentine (1981)
Nekromantik (1987)
Night of the Demons (1988)
Phantasm II (1988)
Phenomena (1985)
Possession (1981)
Silent Night, Deadly Night (1984)
Tenebre (1982)
Tetsuo (1989)
The Believers (1987)
The Blob (1988)
The Hitcher (1986)
The Monster Squad (1987)
The Stuff (1985)
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2 (1986)
The Video Dead (1987)
The Woman in Black (1989 TV Movie) (backed by The Villain)
They Live (1988) (backed by Sculpt)
Warlock (1989)
Xtro (1983)


SPECIAL SECTION - REST OF THE GIANT MONSTER FILMS OF THE 80s :-

Alligator 1980
Gamera: Super Monster 1980
Godzilla vs. Biollante 1989
King Kong Lives 1986
Pulgasari 1985
Q - The Winged Serpent 1982
The Lair of the White Worm 1988
The Return of Godzilla 1984
Yamata no Orochi no Gyakushu 1985

{* = HONORABLE MENTIONS BACKINGS}



Let's now venture into the 90s...

[_____V_____]

The 90s - 1990 to 1999


IN THE CUT

Candyman (1992) - 11

Jacob's Ladder (1990) - 9
Scream (1996) - 9
Se7en (1995) - 9

Army of Darkness (1992) - 8
Dead Alive (1992) - 8
Misery (1990) - 8
The Silence of the Lambs (1991) - 8
The Blair Witch Project (1999) - 8

The Sixth Sense (1999) - 7

Dracula (1992) - 5
I Know What You Did Last Summer (1997) - 5
In the Mouth of Madness (1994) - 5
Wishmaster (1997) - 5

The Exorcist III (1990) - 4

Cronos (1993) - 3
Cube (1997) - 3
Sleepy Hollow (1999) - 3

Wes Craven's New Nightmare (1994) - 2

Stir of Echoes (1999)

Ringu (1998) - 5 (backed by neverending, seconded by Giganticface, The Villain, metternich1815)

Nightbreed (1990) - 3 (backed by Kandarian Demon, seconded by [i]neverending, Straker, fortunato, The Villain, realdealblues)

-----------------------------------------------------------


[I]HONORABLE MENTIONS

Audition (1999) - 6 (backed by The Villain, seconded by Giganticface) {Straker*, neverending*, Sculpt*}
From Dusk Till Dawn (1996) - 4 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by hammerfan, realdealblues) {The Villain*}
Funny Games (1997) - 4 {Giganticface*, Sculpt*, The Villain*, fortunato*}
Event Horizon (1997) - 3 (backed by tiberius, seconded by metternich1815) {Straker*, neverending*}
Cemetary Man (1994) - 3 (backed by Straker) {Giganticface*, metternich1815*, The Villain*}
Tremors (1990) - 2 (backed by The Villain) {realdealblues*, Sculpt*, Giganticface*, tiberius*, fortunato*}

Night of the Living Dead (1990) - 4 (backed by Kandarian Demon, seconded by hammerfan) {Giganticface*, realdealblues*} (-1)
Natural Born Killers (1994) - 3 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by Giganticface) {neverending*, tiberius*} (-1)
Arachnophobia (1990) (backed by Sculpt) {The Villain*, metternich1815*}
Man Bites Dog (1992) (backed by Straker) {Giganticface*, The Villain*}



DEBATABLE

Leprechaun (1993) - 6 (backed by realdealblues, seconded by natedog722) (-1)

Halloween H20: 20 Years Later (1998) - 4 (backed by The Villain, seconded by realdealblues)


MINORITY

Deep Blue Sea (1999) - 3 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by The Villain, tiberius) (-1)
Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday (1993) - 3 (backed by natedog722) (-2)
Predator 2 (1990) - 3
Urban Legend (1998) - 3 (backed by metternich1815)

Anaconda (1997) - 2 (backed by tiberius) (-2)
Blade (1998) - 2 {Sculpt*}
Bride of Chucky (1998) - 2 (-1)
Child's Play 2 (1990) - 2
Frankenhooker (1990) - 2
Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare (1991) - 2 (-2)
Hardware (1990) - 2
House on Haunted Hill (1999) - 2 (backed by Kandarian Demon)
Interview with the Vampire (1994) - 2
Subspecies (1991) - 2
The Faculty (1998) - 2 (backed by The Villain) {realdealblues*}
The People Under the Stairs (1991) - 2
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992) - 2
Warlock: The Armageddon (1993) - 2 (backed by Kandarian Demon)
Wolf (1994) - 2


SINGLE VOTES TO

Alien³ (1992)
An American Werewolf in Paris (1997)
Basket Case 2 (1990)
Begotten (1990)
Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992)
Castle Freak (1995)
Children of the Corn III: Urban Harvest (1995)
Clean, Shaven (1993)
Cure (1997)
End of Days (1999) (backed by natedog722)
Ernest Scared Stupid (1991)
Fallen (1998)
Fear (1996) (backed by neverending) {The Villain*}
Flatliners (1990) {Sculpt*}
Frankenstein Unbound (1990)
Gamera 2: Attack of the Legion (1996)
Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)
Godzilla vs. Destroyah (1995)
Gremlins 2: The New Batch (1990)
Hellraiser III: Hell on Earth (1992)
Hiruko the Goblin (1991) (backed by The Villain) {Straker*}
Humanoids from the Deep (1996)
Jurassic Park (1993) (backed by Sculpt)
Kiss the Girls (1997)
Lake Placid (1999)
Mirror Mirror (1990)
Necronomicon: Book of Dead (1993)
Needful Things (1993)
Nightmare Concert (A Cat in the Brain) (1990)
Perdita Durango (1997)
Pumpkinhead II: Blood Wings (1994 Video)
Ravenous (1999) (backed by Giganticface)
Scream 2 (1997)
Shakma (1990) (TWO films from the remaining ones from the DEBATABLE section onwards.
The "In The Cut" section is NOT for debate.

Once that is done, we can proceed to select SIX films from the remaining stock for our Honorable Mentions.

Quite a few films from this period have received NEGATIVE VOTES, so it's pretty much open for debate. A number of films remain which have received similar number of backings as well.

So, let's start finalising the FINAL TWO. Bring forth your thoughts.

[The Villain]

LEPRECHAUN!!!!

Just kidding. Audition needs to be on this list and I really hope more people back it. Its a great movie and there are so few well done female villains.

Besides that I'll back Ringu. An important movie that really strengthened the J Horror movement.

[hammerfan]

From Dusk Til Dawn
Night of the Living Dead

[_____V_____]

Added.

Ringu has 3 backings now and is in the lead. (same as Deep Blue Sea, but that film has a negative vote)

Let's hear some more.

[neverending]

Nightbreed- a unique film where the monsters are the good guys and the humans the monsters. A startling conception from Clive Barker. The film as it stands is admitedly flawed, but when The Cabal Cut gets released people are going to see what a powerful, original film this truly is.

[Giganticface]

LEPRECHAUN!!!!

Just kidding. Audition needs to be on this list and I really hope more people back it. Its a great movie and there are so few well done female villains.

Besides that I'll back Ringu. An important movie that really strengthened the J Horror movement.

Me too. I've already backed Audition and Ringu, but those are the two I'd vote for to make the final 22. Natural Born Killers is close, but I'll save that for an honorable mention.

[metternich1815]

I'll back Ringu. As for my choices, the following three each deserve a place on the list either as top 22 or at least in the honorable mentions section. The first is Urban Legend. This film was a really unique slasher where the killer killed based off urban legends. In addition to a great premise, it is executed surprisingly well. Also, Robert Englund and Brad Dourif both starred in this film. Definitely a worthy addition to the list. The second is Event Horizon. This film is an excellent sci~fi horror from the 1990s. There are some terrific performances, especially by Sam Neil and Laurence Fishbourne. Additionally, the film is very dark with all kinds of dark imagery, throughout the film it often feels like a nightmare (and this is one of the beautiful things of this movie,the blurring of the lines between real and imaginary). This film still scares me (or at least creeps me out). As for it being a sci-fi, well the horror is very strong, so it definitely is a horror movie. Thus, this film would be an excellent edition tot his list. The third is From Dusk till Dawn. This is an interesting vampire film directed by Rodriguez. This film has a rather unique story and diverges from the usual gothic interpretation of vampires. This film also features some excellent performances. On that note, features such people as George Clooney, Tom Savini, and Quentin Tarantino in acting roles. There is also exciting vampire killing action and an impressive level of gore, especially considering that George Clooney stars. If this film does not make the top 22, it at least deserves a place in the honorable mentions section. Anyway, these are all the films that I would support for the two spots. Any of these four would be almost equally okay.

[Straker]

Nightbreed- a unique film where the monsters are the good guys and the humans the monsters. A startling conception from Clive Barker. The film as it stands is admitedly flawed, but when The Cabal Cut gets released people are going to see what a powerful, original film this truly is.

I'll back Nightbreed too;

I always loved the style and concept behind Nightbreed and loved it when I was younger, but as I got older there was a lot about the execution of the movie that really bugged me. That said, I've heard you mention The Cabal Cut a couple of times now and its really whetted my appetite.


Audition needs to be on this list and I really hope more people back it. Its a great movie and there are so few well done female villains.


I'll back this too....

[Sculpt]

With 21 & 22 and prepping for 6 Honorable Mentions, perhaps, with the exception of Audition, I think there's a lot of relatively weaker film choices highlighted here. I wonder if we might be over looking some films? Anyone have some possible suggestions?

Arachnophobia (1990) - I thought Arachnophobia was an excellent film, both scary, well shot and originally funny (Goodman), and also highly rated.

Jurassic Park (1993) - I really enjoyed Jurassic Park. Has strong horror elements. Not a prefect film by any means, but brought the wonder and horror of dinosaurs back to big screen in a real heavy hitting visceral experience. Spielberg is good.

[metternich1815]

With 21 & 22 and prepping for 6 Honorable Mentions, perhaps, with the exception of Audition, I think there's a lot of relatively weaker film choices highlighted here. I wonder if we might be over looking some films? Anyone have some possible suggestions?

Arachnophobia (1990) - I thought Arachnophobia was an excellent film, both scary, well shot and originally funny (Goodman), and also highly rated.

Jurassic Park (1993) - I really enjoyed Jurassic Park. Has strong horror elements. Not a prefect film by any means, but brought the wonder and horror of dinosaurs back to big screen in a real heavy hitting visceral experience. Spielberg is good.

Arachnophobia is good, I will consider backing it for honorable mention. As I have mentioned, I cast a wide net for what is a horror movie, but in this case I disagree. I think that the horror in Jurassic Park is not strong enough, so I group it as science fiction. That is the only reason I have not backed this film. In reality, it is one of my all-time favorite films (definitely top ten), but I just do not consider it horror.

[The Villain]

With 21 & 22 and prepping for 6 Honorable Mentions, perhaps, with the exception of Audition, I think there's a lot of relatively weaker film choices highlighted here. I wonder if we might be over looking some films? Anyone have some possible suggestions?

Arachnophobia (1990) - I thought Arachnophobia was an excellent film, both scary, well shot and originally funny (Goodman), and also highly rated.

Jurassic Park (1993) - I really enjoyed Jurassic Park. Has strong horror elements. Not a prefect film by any means, but brought the wonder and horror of dinosaurs back to big screen in a real heavy hitting visceral experience. Spielberg is good.

Neither one of those are good enough to belong on this list and I wouldn't even count Jurassic Park as horror.

[fortunato]

I'm definitely with NE on Nightbreed, especially now that the new (correct) cut is out.

[fortunato]

Nice writeup, and beyond that, great blog. I dig your writing style. I don't suppose you plan to start updating it again? I'd definitely RSS that shiz. Love the post about the movie posters.

Thank you so much! I appreciate the kind words. I'd like to get back to that blog, and perhaps I will at some point, but I just don't have the time currently. I write from time to time for a couple other internet publications. I can send you links to those if you're interested.
Thanks again!

[neverending]

I'm definitely with NE on Nightbreed, especially now that the new (correct) cut is out.


It isn't out yet. It's expected in 2014.

[metternich1815]

Neither one of those are good enough to belong on this list and I wouldn't even count Jurassic Park as horror.

In my opinion, Jurassic Park is an awesome movie and if this was a top 22 movie list, it would definitely be on my list. However,this is not such a list and I do agree that I do not think Jurassic Park is horror. As for Arachnophobia, I think it is a very well-made movie with some great performances, I would only debate whether if it is good enough to be on the top 22 or even honorable mentions.

[The Villain]

In my opinion, Jurassic Park is an awesome movie and if this was a top 22 movie list, it would definitely be on my list. However,this is not such a list and I do agree that I do not think Jurassic Park is horror. As for Arachnophobia, I think it is a very well-made movie with some great performances, I would only debate whether if it is good enough to be on the top 22 or even honorable mentions.

I have to disagree with you on Arachnophobia Its not scary or well made in my opinion, certainly not to the caliber that were trying to reach with this list. Its a fun movie but that's about it. Its too silly to be taken seriously.

[metternich1815]

I have to disagree with you on Arachnophobia Its not scary or well made in my opinion, certainly not to the caliber that were trying to reach with this list. Its a fun movie but that's about it. Its too silly to be taken seriously.

I think we can at least agree that it does not belong on the top 22 and very likely does not even belong in the honorable mentions section. On the film itself we disagree. To me, Arachnophobia was a surprisingly good horror film that gave me the "creepy crawlies" after I finished it (so, I suppose it scared me in that way). I thought the performances especially by Daniels and Goodman were excellent. It was humorous, even silly, but that was the point. In my opinion, just because a horror movie is humorous that not mean it is automatically bad or not worthy of inclusion on a best list (which when we get to the next decade we will disagree again on this because of my support of Grindhouse). Not all horror movies are scary and not all of them try to be. We disagree on the film itself and that is fine. As I stated, I really enjoy the film, but am skeptical, like you, that it deserves a place on this list.

[The Villain]

I think we can at least agree that it does not belong on the top 22 and very likely does not even belong in the honorable mentions section. On the film itself we disagree. To me, Arachnophobia was a surprisingly good horror film that gave me the "creepy crawlies" after I finished it (so, I suppose it scared me in that way). I thought the performances especially by Daniels and Goodman were excellent. It was humorous, even silly, but that was the point. In my opinion, just because a horror movie is humorous that not mean it is automatically bad or not worthy of inclusion on a best list (which when we get to the next decade we will disagree again on this because of my support of Grindhouse). Not all horror movies are scary and not all of them try to be. We disagree on the film itself and that is fine. As I stated, I really enjoy the film, but am skeptical, like you, that it deserves a place on this list.

I'm a little harder on horror movies that are comedic or silly which is why I wouldn't include it on this list. However I do like the movie, but I would never put it on any best of list. But hey were both entitled to our opinion.

[neverending]

I like Arachnaphobia, I just don't think it belongs in the top 22.

Nightbreed, however, is, according to Barker, his most personal film, and I think we can all agree that Barker is an important voice in modern horror. The fact thsat it was altered by the studio and most people have not seen the film that Barker wanted the world to see, is its main barrier to acceptance.

I fully expect that when The Cabal Cut is released next year it will be hailed as the amazing film it is. Then people are going to wish it was on the list.

[The Villain]

I like Arachnaphobia, I just don't think it belongs in the top 22.

Nightbreed, however, is, according to Barker, his most personal film, and I think we can all agree that Barker is an important voice in modern horror. The fact thsat it was altered by the studio and most people have not seen the film that Barker wanted the world to see, is its main barrier to acceptance.

I fully expect that when The Cabal Cut is released next year it will be hailed as the amazing film it is. Then people are going to wish it was on the list.

Alright i'm sold. I'll back Nightbreed as well and eagerly await The Cabal Cut. I've never seen it so i think i'll just wait for that cut to come out before i check it out.

[_____V_____]

All added.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=954943&postcount=1042

Looks like Ringu and Nightbreed will be our 2 chosen films to join the top 20. If everyone is in joint agreement, we shall start working on the Honorable Mentions shortly.



I would also like to bring to the attention of all members involved, a film which I have glaringly overlooked while compiling the 80s. IMDB had it categorised as Comedy/Fantasy/Sci-Fi so it obviously skipped out on my "Horror/Thriller/Crime" searches while making the comprehensive Master List.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=32

The film is Ghost Busters - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087332/?ref_=sr_1

I request all members to go through our finalised choices for the 80s again, and see if Ghost Busters is good enough to replace any film in the Top 22 or 6 Honorable Mentions. If a strong enough case is made for it but it doesn't find enough backings, I'll consider giving it a spot in the "HDC Members Specially Recommend..." section of this project.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=954942&postcount=1041

I really apologise for this mistake. Thanks to Sculpt for bringing this to my notice via PM.


So, let's hear your thoughts on the 90s, and on Ghost Busters, folks.

[The Villain]

I'm good on our final two spots for the 90's.

As for Ghostbusters, i've always felt it was more comedy then horror. Yeah there's ghosts in it and demons but it's not scary, it's not disturbing, and it doesnt evoke any of the kind of emotions a horror movie should bring out in a person. Besides containing some elements of horror, the movie really doesnt represent horror in any way. I feel like it should be left out on purpose.

[neverending]

I could see replacing Wishmaster or New Nightmare with Ghostbusters, but I don't think you could get a majority to agree what film to kick out.

[The Villain]

I could see replacing Wishmaster or New Nightmare with Ghostbusters, but I don't think you could get a majority to agree what film to kick out.

Aren't those 90's movies? Ghostbusters is an 80's movie.

[neverending]

Ooops- clicked on the wrong link.


Really, I think it's too late to replace any films, even with one as iconic as Ghostbusters.

Put it in the special recommendations.

[metternich1815]

I agree with neverending; I think it should be in the special reccomendations section. It may be primarily a comedic film, but it has horror elements (very similar to Little Shop of Horrors) and is an excellent film. I am fine with those two choices for the 1990s.

[Straker]

I actually went back and forth on whether to add Ghostbusters to my original list, in the end it didn't make my cut.... I should add that it is one of my favourite comedies of all time, and holds a special place in my heart. I was pretty ruthless with comedy/ horror and they didn't get much of a look in until the 2000s, where there was a wave of dark satire in the genre that I thought should be represented. So I wouldn't personally back Ghostbusters to replace any of the movies already in the cut, but fully agree with NE. I think its a perfect choice for the special recommendations. That said, If there is enough strength behind it though I'm not going to kick up a fuss if people want to revise the cut, its an amazing movie.

[Giganticface]

Thank you so much! I appreciate the kind words. I'd like to get back to that blog, and perhaps I will at some point, but I just don't have the time currently. I write from time to time for a couple other internet publications. I can send you links to those if you're interested.
Thanks again!

Absolutely! Feel free to PM me. I'd love to check them out.

...

My opinion on including Nightbreed -- and not really lobbying to change anything, but just my opinion -- is that the film we're voting on is not the Cabal Cut. NE is the only one that's seen that version, and I don't know how technical we wanna get, but that version didn't come out in the 90s. So we're actually voting on the original, pretty flawed, version, which is still a really cool concept, but IMO not worthy of the top 22. When someone reads this list, they will be reading a recommendation for the 1990 film. I suggest making it a special mention, and then someone (neverending, hint, hint) can do a blurb about it, including its interesting history and his experience seeing the Cabal Cut. That's just my 2 cents.

(I would instead include Sleepaway Camp.)

[Edit]
Wait, I might be a little behind on this thread... if this is for considering Nightbreed for honorable mention, I think that's a good fit.

RE: Ghostbusters -- I considered this one when submitting my 80s list. It's a 10/10 in my book, but I ended up not including it because it's so much more funny than it is scary. I wouldn't have a problem at all if it would have been in the debate, but I don't think it's a must-have. Special mentions feels like a perfect fit for including great films that are on the fringe of horror.

[Nuther edit]
Oh wow, I just noticed Audition got bumped out -- even though it got six votes originally! Bummer. Oh well, hopefully it makes the honorable mentions.

[_____V_____]

Excellent. Ghost Busters finds a place in the special section, as per 5 members who have spoken (if anyone else disagrees, feel free to post).

(I would instead include Sleepaway Camp.)

That's already in the 80s finalised films. We are in the 90s now. :p

Oh wow, I just noticed Audition got bumped out -- even though it got six votes originally! Bummer. Oh well, hopefully it makes the honorable mentions.

Not just yet.

If enough people are not in favor, we can still debate Nightbreed and Ringu. Only 3 members have agreed on both films so far - it's still open for debate.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=954943&postcount=1042

For the record, as things stand at the moment:-

Nightbreed - 5 backings
Ringu - 4 backings
Audition - 3 backings
Deep Blue Sea - 3 backings + a negative vote
Leprechaun - 2 backings
From Dusk Till Dawn - 2 backings
Halloween H20: 20 Years Later - 2 backings
Night of the Living Dead - 2 backings
Event Horizon - 2 backings
Natural Born Killers - 2 backings
The Faculty - 2 backings
Tremors - 2 backings

Audition still has a chance to leap-frog Ringu, if it gets 2 more backings.

[Giganticface]

Oh whoops! Confusing Sleepaway Camp for the 90s... that's just wrong. Thanks for the clarifications, V.

[realdealblues]

I'll back Nightbreed just to seal it in because it definitely deserves it.

I hated Ringu almost as much as I hated it's American counterpart & didn't like Audition either, but I won't be a jerk and Neg vote them just because of my own personal feelings...

The only one I haven't already backed before is From Dusk To Dawn, so I will back that one.

[Giganticface]

Cool. I suspect that will seal it, so if we're at the point of counting up approvals for Ringu and Nightbreed, I say, "Aye."

[Sculpt]

We're whipping thru pretty fast here (in short period of time). Just got back.

Ghostbusters -
In regards to Ghostbusters, if you weren't old enough to see it in the theatre, you many not be able to appreciate just how original & huge it was. It's 5 star fantastic film. It's no less a horror film than Son of Frankenstein & Little Shop of Horrors; packed with Horror elements. The ghost scene in the library gave me a fright. I think it's a glaring omission.

What to replace it with is going to be an opinion call. In the top 22, I'd say it's a better film than these (in my order):
The Beyond (1981)
Pet Sematary (1989)
The Changeling (1980)

In Honorable Mentions, IMO it's a more worthy film than all of them; best replacements:
Demons (1985)
Sleepaway Camp (1983)
The Fog (1980)
[others: Near Dark, Day of the Dead, The Return of the Living Dead]

If you consider it a Horror film, and worthy of inclusion, post the film you'd replace it with. Mine is Beyond in the 22, and Sleepaway in Honorable Mentions.

[metternich1815]

We're whipping thru pretty fast here (in short period of time). Just got back.

Ghostbusters -
In regards to Ghostbusters, if you weren't old enough to see it in the theatre, you many not be able to appreciate just how original & huge it was. It's 5 star fantastic film. It's no less a horror film than Son of Frankenstein; packed with Horror elements. The ghost scene in the library gave me a fright. I think it's a glaring omission.

What to replace it with is going to be an opinion call. In the top 22, I'd say it's a better film than these (in my order):
The Beyond (1981)
Pet Sematary (1989)
The Changeling (1980)

In Honorable Mentions, IMO it's a more worthy film than all of them; best replacements:
Demons (1985)
Sleepaway Camp (1983)
The Fog (1980)
[others: Near Dark, Day of the Dead, The Return of the Living Dead]

If you consider it a Horror film, and worthy of inclusion, post the film you'd replace it with. Mine is Beyond in the 22, and Sleepaway in Honorable Mentions.

Ghostbusters is a great film, but there is no way it is better than Pet Sematary or The Changeling (or, to be honest, The Beyond. I am a big Fulci fan). I think it is best on the special reccomendations section because,I, personally, would not rank it above any of the films mentioned, except maybe Demons. But, like I said, it is best in that section because it is significant.

[Sculpt]

In regards to Audition, Ringu and Nightbreed, I think Ringu is the better, but for the other two, people tend to polarize (like/hate), and I don't have a strong opinion in them. So I'm cool with results.



http://www.projections-movies.com/images/arachnophobia.jpg

Arachnophobia - Nice debate going on. Consider this: director Frank Mashall expertly shot scenes to fully exploit fear of spiders - recall the scene of spiders coming out of the faucets; the spider on the table that keeps facing and moving with every move of the actor; spiders bursting from the pulsating spider sac. Very effective creepiness & exploitation of fear. For those who consider it might not a good enough film, take into account the 91% Critic rating at RT (34 critics).

Check this scene out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9cbtcfFJjo


For your consideration, the full HD Arachnophobia film is on youtube for free https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMN8xMzKUcE

[metternich1815]

In regards to Audition, Ringu and Nightbreed, I think Ringu is the better, but for the other two, people tend to polarize (like/hate), and I don't have a strong opinion in them. So I'm cool with results.



http://www.projections-movies.com/images/arachnophobia.jpg

Arachnophobia - Nice debate going on. Consider this: director Frank Mashall expertly shot scenes to fully exploit fear of spiders - recall the scene of spiders coming out of the faucets; the spider on the table that keeps facing and moving with every move of the actor; spiders bursting from the pulsating spider sac. Very effective creepiness & exploitation of fear. For those who consider it might not a good enough film, take into account the 91% Critic rating at RT (34 critics).

Check this scene out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9cbtcfFJjo


For your consideration, the full HD Arachnophobia film is on youtube for free https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMN8xMzKUcE

I agree, I find that movie extremely creepy (and very effective). It is a very underrated film, in my opinion.

[The Villain]

We're whipping thru pretty fast here (in short period of time). Just got back.

Ghostbusters -
In regards to Ghostbusters, if you weren't old enough to see it in the theatre, you many not be able to appreciate just how original & huge it was. It's 5 star fantastic film. It's no less a horror film than Son of Frankenstein & Little Shop of Horrors; packed with Horror elements. The ghost scene in the library gave me a fright. I think it's a glaring omission.

What to replace it with is going to be an opinion call. In the top 22, I'd say it's a better film than these (in my order):
The Beyond (1981)
Pet Sematary (1989)
The Changeling (1980)

In Honorable Mentions, IMO it's a more worthy film than all of them; best replacements:
Demons (1985)
Sleepaway Camp (1983)
The Fog (1980)
[others: Near Dark, Day of the Dead, The Return of the Living Dead]

If you consider it a Horror film, and worthy of inclusion, post the film you'd replace it with. Mine is Beyond in the 22, and Sleepaway in Honorable Mentions.

I don't understand. Why would I need to see a movie in the theaters to fully appreciate it? Most of my favorite movies I've watched at home. I don't need to watch a movie in a building full of immature people who are going to ruin the movie for me anyway to understand it.

I still have to disagree about its strength of a horror movie because its not a horror movie. Its a horror comedy which belongs in an entirely different category IMO.

Is it a great movie? Yes. But were not here to argue the best movies, were here to argue the best horror movies. Having horror elements in a movie does not make it one.

IMO it is not a better horror film then the movies on this list especially the ones you've mentioned. I'm all for it being included on some special recommendation but not on the actual list.

[hammerfan]

I still have to disagree about its strength of a horror movie because its not a horror movie. Its a horror comedy which belongs in an entirely different category IMO.

And I consider it to be strictly comedy.

[The Villain]

And I consider it to be strictly comedy.

Honestly so do I

[neverending]

It's the scale, Villain. When the images dwarf yourself and everything else around you, it lends them a weight and importance you don't get watching them at home. Seeing a film this way becomes an immersive experience that is incomperable. If it weren't for modern audiences, it would be a given.

Seeing 2001 on a 180 degree cinerama screen on its initial release was a mind blowing experience.

Same with Close Encounters, when you had to follow the travel of that tiny spaceship at the top of the screen as it went from left to right.

The magnificent scenery of Barry Lyndon, the way Kubrick had it shot with special comeras... the panoramas were breathtaking.

When I saw The Wizard of Oz on the big screen, it was an entirely different experience.

But it doesn't take a big spectacle to make a film special on the big screen. It works for any film. It's magic really. If it weren't true, theatres would have gone out of business long ago and we'd just order them at home for private viewing.

[neverending]

And I think we should put the comedy vs. horror debate to rest. We have other comedies on our list, so it's really a moot point.

[_____V_____]

Added.

Nightbreed has pretty much sealed it's place in the top.

As for Ringu, it's still in contention because I have received 4 "Yes"s for both films so far. Right now, two films are breathing down it's neck with 3 backings each (Ringu has 4) - Audition & From Dusk Till Dawn.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

I have also underlined those films who look to be frontrunners for our SIX Honorable Mentions. We shall have NINE films to pick from.

In the interest of fairness, I'll keep the Ringu spot open for 12 more hours. If nobody else has any objection within that time (other than the 4 members who already passed it), it seals it's place and we start working on the Honorable Mentions.

As for Ghost Busters, the debate is open for the next 12 hours as well, in spite of the majority asking it to be included in the Special section. If it can garner enough support for replacement, it will be considered. Right now I see 3 members against it, and 1 for it.

[fortunato]

Seeing 2001 on a 180 degree cinerama screen on its initial release was a mind blowing experience.

I got to see a clean 70mm print of this at a theatre here in Chicago last year. It was nuuuuuts. Unreal.

The magnificent scenery of Barry Lyndon, the way Kubrick had it shot with special comeras... the panoramas were breathtaking.

Actually the cameras were normal; it was the lens set that he used that allowed him to photograph scenes with only candlelight. They were super-fast lenses (f/0.7) developed for NASA for space photography and the Apollo missions, and were adapted to fit the cameras.

[neverending]

Well, that made the cameras pretty special, didn't it? :D

[The Villain]

It's the scale, Villain. When the images dwarf yourself and everything else around you, it lends them a weight and importance you don't get watching them at home. Seeing a film this way becomes an immersive experience that is incomperable. If it weren't for modern audiences, it would be a given.

Seeing 2001 on a 180 degree cinerama screen on its initial release was a mind blowing experience.

Same with Close Encounters, when you had to follow the travel of that tiny spaceship at the top of the screen as it went from left to right.

The magnificent scenery of Barry Lyndon, the way Kubrick had it shot with special comeras... the panoramas were breathtaking.

When I saw The Wizard of Oz on the big screen, it was an entirely different experience.

But it doesn't take a big spectacle to make a film special on the big screen. It works for any film. It's magic really. If it weren't true, theatres would have gone out of business long ago and we'd just order them at home for private viewing.

I get what you're saying. It does give you a different experience but does that really affect your opinion of the movie afterwards? If so, is it because the movie was actually as good as you remember it or just the experience? If it's the latter, then seeing a movie in the theaters might actually hinder your ability to judge the film. Either way, i do get what you're saying and have had experiences like that myself.

[neverending]

The medium is the message.

[The Villain]

The medium is the message.

What do you mean?

[Sculpt]

Villain, I agree with you a film's story is the same, regardless of the screen size. Watching a film on the big screen, is an enhanced experience for many because it's more engrossing with no home distractions (lights, phone, dog, home-mates, etc), it's more visceral with the surround sound & big bass, nothing for your eyes to see but the screen. And as Never said, the hugeness of images dwarfing you is a powerful thing. Also, there's a communal experience with the audience, where we feed off each other, like live jazz music. 99% of theatre audiences have been all good with me.

There are some films that have aspects to them that are incredibly enhanced on the big screen. Of films I've both at home and at theatre, where it made a huge difference were: 2001 (& 2010), Cloverfield, Star Wars and The Right Stuff.

(I mentioned Ghostbusters because it was 'huge' in theatres at the time, crowds were amazed & laughing; we'd never seen anything quite like it. It was a communal experience you can't duplicate in 2013 (because 1984 people aren't the same as 2013.)

[The Villain]

Villain, I agree with you a film's story is the same, regardless of the screen size. Watching a film on the big screen, is an enhanced experience for many because it's more engrossing with no home distractions (lights, phone, dog, home-mates, etc), it's more visceral with the surround sound & big bass, nothing for your eyes to see but the screen. And as Never said, the hugeness of images dwarfing you is a powerful thing. Also, there's a communal experience with the audience, where we feed off each other, like live jazz music. 99% of theatre audiences have been all good with me.

There are some films that have aspects to them that are incredibly enhanced on the big screen. Of films I've both at home and at theatre, where it made a huge difference were: 2001 (& 2010), Cloverfield, and The Right Stuff.

(I mentioned Ghostbusters because it was 'huge' in theatres at the time, crowds were amazed & laughing. It was a communal experience you can't duplicate in 2013.)

Alright that i can understand and agree with. It's funny you mention Cloverfield because now that i think about it, i had an experience like that. I felt like the whole theater was shaking and that the monster was gonna smash in our something because of how the stereos were, plus we were pretty close to the screen and that definitely effected how i feel about the film.

[Kandarian Demon]

Ghostbusters! I'd like to defend this movies right to be on the list, in one way or another.

I'm glad to see it mentioned. It would have been in my original top 20 list, as it is my "other favourite movie", apart from "Evil Dead" - but I didn't think we were allowed to vote for it as it wasn't on the list. It's the movie that got me into horror! And I've never seen it in a theatre, by the way...

Many of you older members (I'm 36 myself) have defended some of the classics from your youth... movies that left a great impression on you and got you interested in the genre.

Well... Ghostbusters might not mean much to YOU, but it was a BIG deal for a lot of us 80s kids, and I know for a fact that quite a lot of horror fans my age started with Ghostbusters. It's not just any movie, it was and still is a pop culture phenomenon - and if we could back The Raven earlier (as I did myself), we can certainly back Ghostbusters too. Personally, I actually find the movie rather creepy in places, especially that library ghost which has been haunting my nightmares for 30 years now :D

Each generation has it's classics, and I think it's something that many people tend to overlook or forget applies to the "younger" generations too - and their experiences of being blown away by a movie are just as valid. After all - that's what's keeping the genre alive.

So yes - I definitely think Ghostbusters should be somewhere on our list...

[neverending]

I agree with everything you say... I just don't think we can go back and redo a list that's already finalized.

[Straker]

I'm a little too young to have had the 'cinema experience' with regards to Ghostbusters, but I can say I spent many a happy hour running round my house with one of these;

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2y066sNF61r9czvwo1_400.jpg

Happy Days. :cool:

[The Villain]

I'm gonna make my peace one more time and then shut up, maybe even for the rest of this whole issue. Ghostbusters does not belong on this list, it is a comedy. The other comedic movies that have been included on here are not strictly comedies like Ghostbusters is. They are a mixture of horror and comedy, movies that manage to be horror movies and comedies at the same time. Ghostbusters does not do that.

Everyone needs to put aside their own personal feelings towards the movie. We've said before on here that this list isn't about personal feelings and it's about judging the best horror movies.

We've also not included movies because IMDB didnt have it listed as horror. On IMDB Ghostbusters is listed as Comedy, Fantasy, Sci-Fi. Not horror.

I know i'm beating a dead horse here, i just wanted to get my point across without it just being shot down or ignored which is how i felt. Like i said before, a special recommendation is fine with me but no movie should be taken off the list to include it.

There i'm done.

[metternich1815]

I'm gonna make my peace one more time and then shut up, maybe even for the rest of this whole issue. Ghostbusters does not belong on this list, it is a comedy. The other comedic movies that have been included on here are not strictly comedies like Ghostbusters is. They are a mixture of horror and comedy, movies that manage to be horror movies and comedies at the same time. Ghostbusters does not do that.

Everyone needs to put aside their own personal feelings towards the movie. We've said before on here that this list isn't about personal feelings and it's about judging the best horror movies.

We've also not included movies because IMDB didnt have it listed as horror. On IMDB Ghostbusters is listed as Comedy, Fantasy, Sci-Fi. Not horror.

I know i'm beating a dead horse here, i just wanted to get my point across without it just being shot down or ignored which is how i felt. Like i said before, a special recommendation is fine with me but no movie should be taken off the list to include it.

There i'm done.

I agree that it should not replace any of the chosen films, but I disagree it is not horror. The Little Shop of Horrors and Ghostbusters are in the same boat, in my opinion and Little Shop ultimately made the list, so I think it is reasonable to include it theoretically. Horror themes certainly exist in this film. Personally, I would include it under horror comedy and, in my opinion, horror comedy is in the horror genre.

[_____V_____]

Not to stretch the debate any further, since we are deviating from our 90s selection here - Ghost Busters is the first film short-listed for the Special section. I haven't gone through the thread yet, but 40 films are to be selected for that section, and Ghost Busters seals a spot for itself.

Let's close that chapter now.


More than 12 hours have passed and I see no objections or new contenders, so Ringu seals it's spot in the top 22 for the 90s.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

Now, we move to the Honorable Mentions. The NINE films with the maximum support are -

Audition,
From Dusk Till Dawn,
Halloween H20,
Night of the Living Dead,
Deep Blue Sea,
Event Horizon,
Natural Born Killers,
The Faculty,
Tremors.

In addition, there are several others with 1 backing, which I am not listing here. It can be seen in the link above.

Audition and From Dusk Till Dawn look to be pretty safe, so we might be looking to get FOUR from the rest.

Have your say.

[Giganticface]

I usually like to back one or two at a time and see how things go, but I'm going to be away from civilization for a few days, so I'll spend all six at once.

I've already backed these, but I'll mention them again:

Audition
Natural Born Killers

I'd like to add:

Cemetery Man
Man Bites Dog
Night of the Living Dead
Funny Games

[The Villain]

Audition
From Dusk Till Dawn
Fear
Tremors
The Faculty

Hiruko The Goblin: A bizarrely creepy film that has always stuck out with me amongst the foreign horror movies I've seen.

[_____V_____]

Added.

3 films look to make the cut for the Honorable Mentions right now, plus plenty of new contenders (as underlined) have sprung up for those final spots.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=954943&postcount=1042

Keep the thoughts coming.

[realdealblues]

I'm a little too young to have had the 'cinema experience' with regards to Ghostbusters, but I can say I spent many a happy hour running round my house with one of these;

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2y066sNF61r9czvwo1_400.jpg

Happy Days. :cool:

I had all those same toys as a kid!...lol.

[realdealblues]

My 6 honorable mentions:

Leprechaun (1993)
From Dusk Till Dawn (1996)
Halloween: H2O (1998)
Tremors (1990)
Night Of The Living Dead (1990)
The Faculty (1998)

[metternich1815]

I am going to remove my backings of Predator 2 and Bride of Chucky. I think they are great movies, but not worthy enough to be included on this list (also, if we did not add Predator, which is still pretty surprising to me, then we definitely won't add the sequel). I will back Cemetery Man. I have already backed Natural Born Killers and Event Horizon, but I want to bring attention to those films because I believe both deserve to be on this list, especially Event Horizon. I am really surprised that this film has not received more support.

[Straker]

Audition
Cemetery Man
Man Bites Dog
Event Horizon
Hiruko The Goblin: I'll be honest, I've never seen it, but between this thread or on the Last Seen Movie section I have heard Villain talk about this movie a few times now, so I'm going to throw it a vote.

[neverending]

Audition
Natural Born Killers


The rest... eeesh...

[The Villain]

Audition
Cemetery Man
Man Bites Dog
Event Horizon
Hiruko The Goblin: I'll be honest, I've never seen it, but between this thread or on the Last Seen Movie section I have heard Villain talk about this movie a few times now, so I'm going to throw it a vote.

Thanks. You should check it out. Its really weird and bizarre in a good way.

[_____V_____]

Added.

I have moved the films with THREE backings under the ones with FOUR backings in the Honorable Mentions section.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

There are FOUR films vying for the final THREE spots, not to mention FIVE other films with TWO backings each who are breathing down their collective necks.

Keep going, folks.

[metternich1815]

With great reluctance I have decided to remove my backing of The Faculty. It is a great movie, in my opinion, but I think the other films in the honorable mentions section are more deserving of being on the list.

[Kandarian Demon]

The other comedic movies that have been included on here are not strictly comedies like Ghostbusters is. They are a mixture of horror and comedy, movies that manage to be horror movies and comedies at the same time. Ghostbusters does not do that.


Uhm... did you notice the ghosts? :D It is certainly more horror than The Raven (a movie I backed, by the way). Like I said, I actually find the movie kinda spooky.

[_____V_____]

Done.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

So we arrive at the final SIX for the Honorable Mentions. If majority are in agreement, we can start working on the 00s.

[metternich1815]

Those choices are fine with me.

[The Villain]

Sounds good to me

[neverending]

It'll do, I guess.

[The Villain]

Uhm... did you notice the ghosts? :D It is certainly more horror than The Raven (a movie I backed, by the way). Like I said, I actually find the movie kinda spooky.

I Always found the "scares" more silly then scary, even when i was a kid and everything scared me as a kid.

[Giganticface]

Those six look good to me.

[Sculpt]

Arachnophobia is good, I will consider backing it for honorable mention.
I like Arachnaphobia...Audition
Natural Born Killers


The rest... eeesh...
Yes, indeed, help me out folks.

Arachnophobia (1990) - Yes, Arachnophobia is an excellent film (91% Critic rating at RT 34 critics). Notable for adroitly shot scenes to fully exploit fear of spiders (spiders coming out of the faucets; the spider on the table that keeps facing and moving with every move of the actor; spiders bursting from the pulsating spider sac). Very effective creepiness & exploitation of fear. A better film than many of the current Honorable Mentions.

Looking for some support for Arachnophobia, a worthy inclusion in (HM) Honorable Mentions.


Sorry, if I seem late, but it hasn't even been 24 hrs yet. As I do, consider revising/switching-out your current HM backing. IMO, most worthy films for our 6 HMs:

Arachnophobia (1990) - see above
Tremors (1990) - highly regarded, well made film, How a 'B-movie horror' is done, supports horror genre
Blade (1998) - well made big budget new take on vampire genre
Audition (1999) - already noted
Flatliners (1990) - original concept big budget support of genre
Funny Games (1997) - controversial take on voyerism


Making case why these current underlined films may not be HM worhty; & best choices to switch out your support for another film:

Night of the Living Dead (1990) - I saw this on Netflix years ago. I thought far inferior to the original '68 masterpiece, and not a different take on the original... I don't get why it was ever made. Why make an inferior film, that's not significantly different than the original? I don't understand why this is an Honorable Mention. For these reasons ask members to consider changing backing.

From Dusk Till Dawn - IMO, it's OK, just not particularly original or significant in any way.

Natural Born Killers - I LOVE Oliver Stone's work. I can't say anything he's done isn't well done or significant. It never occurred to me this was horror. But I wouldn't debate it, just don't know if it's significant to the horror genre.

[The Villain]

Despite my arguments against it earlier I would actually rather see Arachnophobia over The Night Of The Living Dead remake or even Event Horizon. I am fine with those though but if there's enough support I'll back Arachnophobia. Don't want to hold things up though.

[Sculpt]

I volunteer to complete write-up Ghostbusters for Special Section.

Despite my arguments against it earlier I would actually rather see Arachnophobia over The Night Of The Living Dead remake or even Event Horizon. I am fine with those though but if there's enough support I'll back Arachnophobia. Don't want to hold things up though.
Thanks, Villain. I think we can at least go 24 hrs or so for Honorable Mentions. That's still pretty swift sailing. Some our participants need at least 24hrs to find time to participate. No need go faster than that, IMO.

[metternich1815]

I'll back Arachnophobia (even though I have already backed six films). I will say that I loved Event Horizon. I thought it was an all-around amazing film (and very creepy). Definitely worth including. As for the Night of the Living Dead remake, I do not remember it enough to have an opinion. I will try to watch it tonight though.

[neverending]

All through this process I've been astounded by the support the NOTLD remake has gotten. I think it's an inferior film in every way.

[The Villain]

All through this process I've been astounded by the support the NOTLD remake has gotten. I think it's an inferior film in every way.

Yeah me too. I'm really surprised it got on. I'd really like to replace it.

While were still making cases, I'd like to once again make a case for Hiruko The Goblin. Its one of the best foreign horrors I've seen. Its very different, creepy, weird, and entertaining. I believe it deserves at least an honorable mention.

[Straker]

It's hard to get excited about a lot of the movies in the run in for honourable mentions if I'm honest. As long as the really awful movies don't make the cut I'll be satisfied.

[neverending]

I have to agree!

[_____V_____]

All added.

3 films from the SIX drop down to contenders, while 2 other films with latest backings join them up in the ranks - Tremors and Arachnophobia.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

Thanks, Villain. I think we can at least go 24 hrs or so for Honorable Mentions. That's still pretty swift sailing. Some our participants need at least 24hrs to find time to participate. No need go faster than that, IMO.

Honorable Mentions isn't that huge as the top 22. Films will be mentioned, not highlighted. And it's usually the ones left with majority of the backings which didn't make the cut. If we debate long and hard over them, that will take a lot longer to complete as well.

The project's been long-delayed (we started in November last year!), and we are in the 90s from the 14th of this month (that's 4 days to select 2 films + 6 Hon Mens). If I wait for every/all member to log in and voice, then the delay could continue much longer.

That's why I mention "majority" at each juncture.

Suppose I am waiting for someone, who for some reason stops logging in for a couple days/ a week or more, should I be delaying the project as well? How am I to know how long they are planning to stay offline?


Anyway, we are back to debating, folks. Sorry about the see-saws. Keep the thoughts coming.

[Sculpt]

Honorable Mentions isn't that huge as the top 22. Films will be mentioned, not highlighted. And it's usually the ones left with majority of the backings which didn't make the cut.

If I wait for every/all member to log in and voice, then the delay could continue much longer.

I'm just saying from the date/time you post, "OK, on to the Honorable Mentions", we should give it at least 24 hours. That's because people come on at different times in the day. We'd still be going pretty swift if Honorable Mentions was completed between 24-48 hours. And if there's some good discussion, I'd assume that's part of the purpose. And there's only one decade left.

[Sculpt]

edit, no post

[neverending]

I'll go with Event Horizon as well.

[The Villain]

I'm just saying from the date/time you post, "OK, on to the Honorable Mentions", we should give it at least 24 hours. That's because people come on at different times in the day. We'd still be going pretty swift if Honorable Mentions was completed between 24-48 hours. And if there's some good discussion, I'd assume that's part of the purpose. And there's only one decade left.

Not for nothing but if we waited that long, things would constantly keep getting shifted around and a choice would never be made like the ridiculously long time the 70's took. Like V said, the honorable mentions aren't as important

[Sculpt]

Not for nothing but if we waited that long, things would constantly keep getting shifted around and a choice would never be made like the ridiculously long time the 70's took. Like V said, the honorable mentions aren't as importantSay, you're not just wanting to be argumentative, are ya.:) V didn't say the Honorable Mentions (HM) are less important, he said the 6 aren't as huge as the 22, and most of the work is done already. It should go without saying the HM are "less important" than the 22 by the simple logic of the semantic "honorable mention" distinction.

If they weren't important, we wouldn't be doing them. As one member once aptly posted, "I just want to add one more thought to this debate. These lists we create are not just amusing passtimes for us to fool around with and forget. People read them. They take them into account in their formation of opinions."

For HM, if the process was to simply take the films left over with the most backings, that would be the rule instead of it merely being an option (which the vast majority usually choose not to do).

I also take the 100 Years of Horror list seriously, including the HM. I simply recommended we give at least 24 hours because participants get to the forum at different times of the day. Is that really a contentious request? If there happens to be a top 6 in 6 hours, yet were missing 3-4 folks who have been fairly consistently involved within every 24 hrs, is that really what were aiming for?

You should realize, if everyone was here at the same time, we could add up the backings in 30 mins. That doesn't mean we would have only 6 films with a majority (there could be 4 w/ 5 votes, and 4 w/ 4 votes). Less than 24 hrs is not what produces 6 films with a majority. It happens by chance, and discussion/debate gets us to 6. Is that really debatable?

Besides, we're here on this forum (& this thread) because we enjoy discussing horror film with other aficionados. That's a big part of why were doing this. I tell you the truth, I don't want to make things take longer, as there's always other threads to talk film. Rather 24 hrs assists more regular participants, like yourself, to create a great list.

[The Villain]

Say, you're not just wanting to be argumentative, are you. V didn't say the Honorable Mentions (HM) are less important, he said the 6 aren't as huge as the 22, and most of the work is done already. It should go without saying the HM are "less important" than the 22 by the simple logic of the semantic "honorable mention" distinction.

If they weren't important, we wouldn't be doing them. As one member once aptly posted,

For HM, if the process was to simply take the films left over with the most backings, that would be the rule instead of it merely being an option (which the vast majority usually choose not to do).

I also take the 100 Years of Horror list seriously, including the HM. I simply recommended we give at least 24 hours because participants get to the forum at different times of the day. Is that really a contentious request? If there happens to be a top 6 in 6 hours, yet were missing 3-4 folks who have been fairly consistently involved within every 24 hrs, is that really what were aiming for?

You should realize, if everyone was here at the same time, we could add up the backings in 30 mins. That doesn't mean we would have only 6 films with a majority (there could be 4 w/ 5 votes, and 4 w/ 4 votes). Less than 24 hrs is not what produces 6 films with a majority. It happens by chance, and discussion/debate gets us to 6. Is that really debatable?

Besides, we're here on this forum (& this thread) because we enjoy discussing horror film with other aficionados. That's a big part of why were doing this. I tell you the truth, I don't want to make things take longer, as there's always other threads to talk film. Rather 24 hrs assists more regular participants, like yourself, to create a great list.

I wasn't trying to be argumentative. V never moves on to the next round until he gets enough say so from everyone involved, so you really don't need to worry about time restraints. All i was trying to say was basically what V already said, that it would take a long time to wait for every member to cast a vote so as soon as he gets a majority vote, he moves on so there's not constant arguing. I don't think there's anything wrong with how he's been doing it so far, but you do and you were trying to take it up with him so i'll stay out of it from now on.

[_____V_____]

It's okay, Villain. We are already into overtime.

Event Horizon moves into the Honorable Mentions as well. 2 more spots left to fill.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

[Kandarian Demon]

I Always found the "scares" more silly then scary, even when i was a kid and everything scared me as a kid.

Well, fair enough, that's how YOU feel... however, that's exactly how I feel about Ringu, yet I would never claim it wasn't a horror movie. And again, The Raven, a wonderful comedy that a few of us backed... that's not even trying to be scary.

I very much doubt that you will be able to find just ONE movie that scares everybody who sees it, so if what scares someone as an individual dictates if something is a horror movie or not, horror movies don't exist.

[Kandarian Demon]

I have chosen not to back anything for the 80s list, as I don't want to back something just for the sake of backing something.

I'm fine with whatever we'll end up with.

[The Villain]

Well, fair enough, that's how YOU feel... however, that's exactly how I feel about Ringu, yet I would never claim it wasn't a horror movie. And again, The Raven, a wonderful comedy that a few of us backed... that's not even trying to be scary.

I very much doubt that you will be able to find just ONE movie that scares everybody who sees it, so if what scares someone as an individual dictates if something is a horror movie or not, horror movies don't exist.

All I ever did was state my opinion. I never said yours was wrong.

[The Villain]

I have chosen not to back anything for the 80s list, as I don't want to back something just for the sake of backing something.

I'm fine with whatever we'll end up with.

Were on the 90's now. Not the 80's

[Kandarian Demon]

All I ever did was state my opinion. I never said yours was wrong.

Same here :) Just "defending" my reasons for why I think Ghostbusters is a horror movie... nothing personal.

Were on the 90's now. Not the 80's

Yep, we are... but I can't type :D

[The Villain]

Same here :) Just "defending" my reasons for why I think Ghostbusters is a horror movie... nothing personal.



Yep, we are... but I can't type :D

OK cool. I don't want to piss anybody off

[_____V_____]

Still in search for 2 more films to finalise for the Honorable Mentions of the 90s.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

[The Villain]

I'll back Cemetary Man and Natural Born Killers. This 90's list is never gonna look perfect anyway. The 90's were not a good year for horror.

[_____V_____]

And so we arrive again at the 6 Honorable Mentions for the 90s.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

If the majority are in agreement, we can pack up the 90s and start working on the 00s.

[Kandarian Demon]

OK cool. I don't want to piss anybody off

Oh you didn't! :) You're obviously as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. It's easy to be misunderstood in writing, and unfortunately I sometimes come across as pissed off, offended or angry. The truth is I very rarely am. I'm sorry if I worded my posts in such a way that it made you feel like I was biting your head off, that wasn't my intention.

[The Villain]

Oh you didn't! :) You're obviously as entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. It's easy to be misunderstood in writing, and unfortunately I sometimes come across as pissed off, offended or angry. The truth is I very rarely am. I'm sorry if I worded my posts in such a way that it made you feel like I was biting your head off, that wasn't my intention.

I usually come off the same way too so I understand.

[metternich1815]

I'm fine with those choices.

[Straker]

If the majority are in agreement, we can pack up the 90s and start working on the 00s.

Fine with me. :cool:

[neverending]

I suppose....

[Sculpt]

lol

Cool crickets on the list.

[Kandarian Demon]

I agree...

(And I have to say as a side note that it's pretty interesting to see the lack of interest in the 90s list, compared to how passionate most of us have been when debating the other decades).

[metternich1815]

I agree...

(And I have to say as a side note that it's pretty interesting to see the lack of interest in the 90s list, compared to how passionate most of us have been when debating the other decades).

I am one of the few people that thinks that the 90s was a great decade for horror.

[The Villain]

I am one of the few people that thinks that the 90s was a great decade for horror.

I've found it one of the worst. That's not to say there weren't some good movies to come out of it but overall I think it was lacking.

[Sculpt]

Ya, just compared to other decades, I think the 90s were a weaker decade for horror. IMO the 80s dwarf the 90s. Could be partly a generational thing. Might I ask how old you are, Mett?

[metternich1815]

Ya, just compared to other decades, I think the 90s were a weaker decade for horror. IMO the 80s dwarf the 90s. Could be partly a generational thing. Might I ask how old you are, Mett?

I certainly agree the 80s is a superior decade (and there are certainly other decades that I would say are superior), but I believe that there are many good horror movies (therefore, it is not nearly as bad as many have said). I am 19 (I was born June 16, 1994).

[Kandarian Demon]

I am 19 (I was born June 16, 1994).

I hope you interpret this as the compliment it's meant to be, but I would honestly have thought you were around my age... and I'm 36 :D

[fortunato]

I don't really like Natural Born Killers on the list. I'm all for keeping genre boundaries wide, but even that seems like a stretch. I think Tremors belongs on the list before NBK. It's not perfect, but it was a fun and important film for future horror-lovers like me to watch as a kid. And it's still a bit of confectionery pleasure. It certainly belongs on a horror list before NBK, I think.

[metternich1815]

I don't really like Natural Born Killers on the list. I'm all for keeping genre boundaries wide, but even that seems like a stretch. I think Tremors belongs on the list before NBK. It's not perfect, but it was a fun and important film for future horror-lovers like me to watch as a kid. And it's still a bit of confectionery pleasure. It certainly belongs on a horror list before NBK, I think.
While I agree that Tremors is a worthy inclusion on the honorable mention list, I believe that Natural Born Killers is a much better film and definitely worthy of inclusion.

[The Villain]

I don't really like Natural Born Killers on the list. I'm all for keeping genre boundaries wide, but even that seems like a stretch. I think Tremors belongs on the list before NBK. It's not perfect, but it was a fun and important film for future horror-lovers like me to watch as a kid. And it's still a bit of confectionery pleasure. It certainly belongs on a horror list before NBK, I think.

I actually agree with you. I don't even consider Natural Born Killers a horror movie. I really like the film but as you said, its a stretch to say it's horror. I only backed it because we seemed stalled here and i wanted to get things going. I'd prefer Tremors on the list but then again it's only the Honorable Mentions.

[fortunato]

While I agree that Tremors is a worthy inclusion on the honorable mention list, I believe that Natural Born Killers is a much better film and definitely worthy of inclusion.

I'm not saying that Tremors is a better or worse film than NBK; that's immaterial. My argument is that NBK doesn't belong on a horror list.

[Sculpt]

I'm not saying that Tremors is a better or worse film than NBK; that's immaterial. My argument is that NBK doesn't belong on a horror list.
Ya, I said it earlier in the honorable mentions debate (not thinking of NBK as horror, but more so thinking it's not necessarily significant to horror). It's too bad you weren't available to stop in earlier, missed your solid input, you could have supported Tremors and a few others.

[_____V_____]

I'm not saying that Tremors is a better or worse film than NBK; that's immaterial. My argument is that NBK doesn't belong on a horror list.

Is that a negative vote for NBK, fort? If yes, then NBK will drop down and we will have to choose between 3 films for that final HM spot.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

[metternich1815]

I'm not saying that Tremors is a better or worse film than NBK; that's immaterial. My argument is that NBK doesn't belong on a horror list.

I get what you're saying now. I do not necessarily agree, but I cast a pretty wide net of what is a horror movie.

[Giganticface]

I wouldn't cry if Natural Born Killers got dropped, unless it was for a weak film. I actually think it has a place on the Honorable Mentions, which IMO don't need to be straight horror. Here are my comments on the film the first time we discussed the 90s.

I think it's a perfect representation of how the 90s was not a horror decade -- the genre's theatrics and "simplicity" -- were completely out of fashion, just like new wave and hair metal were replaced by alternative rock. Horror was either satired (Scream) or embedded in other genres, like crime mysteries (Se7en, Silence of the Lambs), drama (Sixth Sense) and comedy (Army of Darkness, the Frighteners). Natural Born Killers is a lot of things, most notably a social commentary, while also being an effective horror movie, especially the scene with the Indian hallucination ritual.

If it did get dropped, I'd much rather see it get replaced by something unique, like Ravenous or Pin, but those films haven't been discussed. Of the ones that have, I think Funny Games is the most memorable. I don't dislike Tremors. I'd vote for that over a couple others that have been mentioned.

[Kandarian Demon]

I actually agree with you. I don't even consider Natural Born Killers a horror movie.

To be honest... me neither.

[Sculpt]

"I think it's a perfect representation of how the 90s was not a horror decade -- the genre's theatrics and "simplicity" -- were completely out of fashion, just like new wave and hair metal were replaced by alternative rock. Horror was either satired (Scream) or embedded in other genres, like crime mysteries (Se7en, Silence of the Lambs), drama (Sixth Sense) and comedy (Army of Darkness, the Frighteners). Natural Born Killers is a lot of things, most notably a social commentary, while also being an effective horror movie, especially the scene with the Indian hallucination ritual."
I liked your description. It's cool cause your first sentence can be taken a different way, "I think it's a perfect representation of how the 90s was not a horror decade...", which is funny (counter intuitive for NBK) at face value, but then you go on to explain quite well how 90s horror genre was oblique (and I'd say Post Modern). Lots of these films are examples of this: like Anachrophobia is the classic Post Modern humor twist, and Tremors is rather retro 1950s, Funny Games, Deep Blue Sea, Flatliners all have oblique horror themes.

As I originally wrote, I'd never want to debate if NBK was a Horror film, I'd just say I don't think Oliver Stone or I ever thought he made one. Generally speaking, NBK is a remake of Bonnie and Clyde. The American family glued to the "news papers" to be entertained by the media starlets: deranged murderers. NBK is up for interpretation, but Stone is pointing his finger at the media for making these sick people stars, and us for making these sick people stars. I just never thought Bonnie & Clyde and NBK significant to the Horror genre, but those are I just my thoughts. I'm not making an 'argument', not asking for changes, just enjoying the discussion.

[The Villain]

If other people want to throw support to other movies to be added I'll remove my backing of Natural Born Killers but only if people come forward. I really don't want to hold things up but there's definitely something more deserving then NBK

[_____V_____]

Still haven't heard back from fortunato so giving this some more time.

Sorry, folks. The 00s will have to wait for a wee bit longer.

[Giganticface]

I think it's probably worthwhile for me to state my case as to why Natural Born Killers is "horror" enough to make a horror list. Again, I'm not lobbying for it to stay. I personally think it should, but I don't have a problem with it dropping off. I just want to put on record how I come to my conclusion.

First, I'll just pick at a couple of Sculpt's points, not to call him out because I know he's not trying to start a debate, but because I think his points exemplify why it's less common to see NBK as a horror (or horror-related) film. First, the Bonnie and Clyde thing... Just because a film is loosely a remake of an earlier film, doesn't put it in the same genre. A Fistful of Dollars is basically a remake of Yojimbo, but it's not a samurai film. NBK is a standalone film, and much different tonally and thematically than Bonnie and Clyde. Secondly, just because a film makes a social statement doesn't disqualify it from being horror, but it can distract from the horror when giving a broad-stroke analysis of the film.

Also, side note: The "immoral media," and pop-consumers-as-sheep themes, although they are the most clearly-outlined, they're far from the only themes explored in the film, which also touched on the power of sex (Mallory on the car hood), nurture vs. nature (Mallory's abusive family and psychological reprocussions), the risk when good people help bad people (the Indians), and the media becoming complicit in the crime story (Downey Jr.'s killing of prison guards). I'm sure there are plenty more... the film is complex, which contributes to it being not considered "horror."

Anyway, on to why I think it's horror. A while back I stated my definition of horror (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=952317&postcount=587). I'll continue to reference it because that's how I draw the lines, and, although I know it's not everyone's definition, I don't think it's outlandish, and suspect it's actually pretty close to a lot of other people's definition.

So basically:

Are characters that we care about under pursuit by something harmful or scary (real or perceived, supernatural or natural)?
Are we as viewers supposed to be scared or shocked in the process?


There are two groups of victims in NBK: 1) All the people that get killed (obviously), and 2) Mickey and Mallory themselves, victims of their own degrading psychological conditions.

First, the obvious, random victims. Do we care about them, and are we as viewers supposed to be scared or shocked when they are pursued? I'll just use one scene as an example, but there are plenty of others to choose from: The scene in the cafe, where Mickey and Mallory go on a killing rampage. The feeling I got while watching that scene was almost identical to the billards bar scene in Near Dark, and in both cases, I found it scary. Why? It's not just because people got violently killed. It's due to Oliver Stone's (and Kathryn Bigelow's) direction -- we learn just enough about these characters to relate to them and care for their well being. We've all been those people -- the waitress putting up with snotty customers, the guy playing pool wanting to protect his girlfriend. Watching those scenes, we know that each one of those people is doomed, and we can only hope that someone can get away or be spared. It doesn't hurt the case that each was killed in such violent fashion.

Secondly, Mickey and Mallory as victims of their own minds. Do we care about them? Yes, because they're the protagonists. This movie happens to have villain protagonists, but they're protagonists nonetheless.

So then are we supposed to be scared? Let me start by saying, psychological horror, I believe, is perhaps the most misunderstood of the horror genres. ("If there's no blood, it's not horror.") Case in point, the thread (http://horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63251) where that new chick MaskOfPersona came to our forum asking specifically for minimal-blood, psychological horror. Most people greeted her with "you don't like blood, what's your problem?" or recommended she watch Frankenstein 1931 or a film where a child is beaten to death in a gunnysack. I'm not mentioning this be critical, but simply to point out that even most horror fans don't appreciate psychological horror, and often miscategorize it.

By my definition, a film is psychological horror if the "deadly force" is the characters' own minds, and the film is scary because we fear for the well-being of either the psychologically-affected characters themselves (like in Bug) or for those around them (like in Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (the sister)). In NBK, it's a bit of both. In the Indian ritual scene, we see the horrors inside Mickey's mind. Forget what does and does not scare you, personally; this scene is clearly intended to be scary. At multiple points, we see Mallory's flashbacks to her abusive family and the continuing deterioration of her mental state. At the same time, we fear for those around them -- the Indians, who are there to help, but we fear are at risk in doing so. Also, the guy who is seduced by Mallory on the car hood while she experiences her flashbacks, causing her to lose control. In my book, this is psychological horror at its best. The tension is built, not due to something creeping around in the dark, but due to the building chaos in the mind of someone capable of inflicting harm.

Bottom line, I think there are a lot of reasons why it's easy to miss the horror in Natural Born Killers -- either due to the wide variety of styles, including black humor, action and drama, or because of the non-horror social themes, both overt and subtle. But if you peel away some of the complexity and diversion, IMO the film is horror, even at its core.

[metternich1815]

I think it's probably worthwhile for me to state my case as to why Natural Born Killers is "horror" enough to make a horror list. Again, I'm not lobbying for it to stay. I personally think it should, but I don't have a problem with it dropping off. I just want to put on record how I come to my conclusion.

...

Bottom line, I think there are a lot of reasons why it's easy to miss the horror in Natural Born Killers -- either due to the wide variety of styles, including black humor, action and drama, or because of the non-horror social themes, both overt and subtle. But if you peel away some of the complexity and diversion, IMO the film is horror, even at its core.

I completely agree with your points on why it is horror. I, personally, consider it horror and have come across multiple documentaries and books that also group it under horror. Also, in reference to A Tale of Two Sister, I stand by what I said. There is one bad scene (which I did not think was that bad). It is definitely psychological horror.

[The Villain]

I think it's probably worthwhile for me to state my case as to why Natural Born Killers is "horror" enough to make a horror list. Again, I'm not lobbying for it to stay. I personally think it should, but I don't have a problem with it dropping off. I just want to put on record how I come to my conclusion.

...

Bottom line, I think there are a lot of reasons why it's easy to miss the horror in Natural Born Killers -- either due to the wide variety of styles, including black humor, action and drama, or because of the non-horror social themes, both overt and subtle. But if you peel away some of the complexity and diversion, IMO the film is horror, even at its core.

Geez you won me over. Thats a lot to think about. I'm definitely gonna be thinking about all you said the next time i watch it. Maybe i'll come out with a different perspective.

[metternich1815]

I also believe that the best horror movies are the ones with social and societal messages. It is these things among other things why I like the horror genre.

[_____V_____]

Still no reply from fortunato.

Also asking a clarification from Sculpt - did you post a negative vote for Night of the Living Dead (remake)? I thought I saw it yesterday, but can't seem to find it now.

If yes, that film will drop out of the selected ones as well.

[Sculpt]

No neg to NOTD from me.

[Sculpt]

I also believe that the best horror movies are the ones with social and societal messages. It is these things among other things why I like the horror genre.
Ya, same here. That's always been a big draw for me.

[The Villain]

I'd like to remove my backing of Natural Born Killers and Neg vote Night of The Living Dead. Instead I'd like to back Funny Games and Man Bites Dog

[_____V_____]

Done.

We are back to TWO empty slots for Honorable Mentions. Two new films stake a claim for those places - Funny Games and Man Bites Dog.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

Let's hear more on this new development.

[Straker]

Who do I have to kill to get us on to the 2000's? :p

[The Villain]

Who do I have to kill to get us on to the 2000's? :p

Sorry for making things difficult. From now until the 00's I won't cast another vote. I have enough already

[Giganticface]

I'll back Tremors.

Anyone else for Funny Games or Man Bites Dog?

[_____V_____]

With that, Tremors has just eased itself into the 5th Honorable Mentions spot.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

Need to find ONE final film.

[Straker]

Sorry for making things difficult. From now until the 00's I won't cast another vote. I have enough already

I'm only dicking around, carry on voting and discussing, it will take as long as it takes, all good with me. :cool:

[The Villain]

I'm only dicking around, carry on voting and discussing, it will take as long as it takes, all good with me. :cool:

Oh I know. I just know I've gone back and forth a couple tines and don't want to piss anyone off by holding things up. Really glad Tremors made the list.

[tiberius]

I'll back Tremors and Natural Born Killers.

[fortunato]

Tremors and Funny Games. I love Man Bites Dog, but I don't really think it belongs on this particular list, either.

And that was a neg vote for NBK; sorry for the delay.

[_____V_____]

Fortunato has spoken, and that helps us seal the SIXTH and FINAL film for our Honorable Mentions of the 90s.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?p=954943#post954943

If the majority are in agreement, we shall start working on the 00s.

[neverending]

Yes, please, let's move on!

[Giganticface]

Looks good to me.

[The Villain]

Yes let's get to the 00's

[hammerfan]

Looks good. Onward!

[realdealblues]

Onward we go...

[metternich1815]

I would have preferred if Natural Born Killers had made the Honorable Mentions section at least, but this is a pretty good list. I am fine with it.

[Sculpt]

thumbs up

\

[Straker]

Agreed..........

[_____V_____]

Majority have given it the thumbs up so we pack up the 90s. Here's our final selection...

IN THE CUT

Candyman (1992) - 11

Jacob's Ladder (1990) - 9
Scream (1996) - 9
Se7en (1995) - 9

Army of Darkness (1992) - 8
Dead Alive (1992) - 8
Misery (1990) - 8
The Silence of the Lambs (1991) - 8
The Blair Witch Project (1999) - 8

The Sixth Sense (1999) - 7

Dracula (1992) - 5
I Know What You Did Last Summer (1997) - 5
In the Mouth of Madness (1994) - 5
Wishmaster (1997) - 5

The Exorcist III (1990) - 4

Cronos (1993) - 3
Cube (1997) - 3
Sleepy Hollow (1999) - 3

Wes Craven's New Nightmare (1994) - 2

Stir of Echoes (1999)

Ringu (1998) - 5 (backed by neverending, seconded by Giganticface, The Villain, metternich1815)

Nightbreed (1990) - 3 (backed by Kandarian Demon, seconded by [i]neverending, Straker, fortunato, The Villain, realdealblues)

-----------------------------------------------------------


[I]HONORABLE MENTIONS

Audition (1999) - 6 (backed by The Villain, seconded by Giganticface) {Straker*, neverending*, Sculpt*}
From Dusk Till Dawn (1996) - 4 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by hammerfan, realdealblues) {The Villain*}
Funny Games (1997) - 4 {Giganticface*, Sculpt*, The Villain*, fortunato*}
Event Horizon (1997) - 3 (backed by tiberius, seconded by metternich1815) {Straker*, neverending*}
Cemetary Man (1994) - 3 (backed by Straker) {Giganticface*, metternich1815*, The Villain*}
Tremors (1990) - 2 (backed by The Villain) {realdealblues*, Sculpt*, Giganticface*, tiberius*, fortunato*}



DEBATABLE

Leprechaun (1993) - 6 (backed by realdealblues, seconded by natedog722) (-1)

Halloween H20: 20 Years Later (1998) - 4 (backed by The Villain, seconded by realdealblues)
Night of the Living Dead (1990) - 4 (backed by Kandarian Demon, seconded by hammerfan) {Giganticface*, realdealblues*} (-1)


MINORITY

Deep Blue Sea (1999) - 3 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by The Villain, tiberius) (-1)
Jason Goes to Hell: The Final Friday (1993) - 3 (backed by natedog722) (-2)
Natural Born Killers (1994) - 3 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by Giganticface) {neverending*, tiberius*} (-1)
Predator 2 (1990) - 3
Urban Legend (1998) - 3 (backed by metternich1815)

Anaconda (1997) - 2 (backed by tiberius) (-2)
Blade (1998) - 2 {Sculpt*}
Bride of Chucky (1998) - 2 (-1)
Child's Play 2 (1990) - 2
Frankenhooker (1990) - 2
Freddy's Dead: The Final Nightmare (1991) - 2 (-2)
Hardware (1990) - 2
House on Haunted Hill (1999) - 2 (backed by Kandarian Demon)
Interview with the Vampire (1994) - 2
Subspecies (1991) - 2
The Faculty (1998) - 2 (backed by The Villain) {realdealblues*}
The People Under the Stairs (1991) - 2
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (1992) - 2
Warlock: The Armageddon (1993) - 2 (backed by Kandarian Demon)
Wolf (1994) - 2


SINGLE VOTES TO

Alien³ (1992)
An American Werewolf in Paris (1997)
Arachnophobia (1990) (backed by Sculpt) {The Villain*, metternich1815*}
Basket Case 2 (1990)
Begotten (1990)
Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992)
Castle Freak (1995)
Children of the Corn III: Urban Harvest (1995)
Clean, Shaven (1993)
Cure (1997)
End of Days (1999) (backed by natedog722)
Ernest Scared Stupid (1991)
Fallen (1998)
Fear (1996) (backed by neverending) {The Villain*}
Flatliners (1990) {Sculpt*}
Frankenstein Unbound (1990)
Gamera 2: Attack of the Legion (1996)
Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris (1999)
Godzilla vs. Destroyah (1995)
Gremlins 2: The New Batch (1990)
Hellraiser III: Hell on Earth (1992)
Hiruko the Goblin (1991) (backed by The Villain) {Straker*}
Humanoids from the Deep (1996)
Jurassic Park (1993) (backed by Sculpt)
Kiss the Girls (1997)
Lake Placid (1999)
Man Bites Dog (1992) (backed by Straker) {Giganticface*, The Villain*}
Mirror Mirror (1990)
Necronomicon: Book of Dead (1993)
Needful Things (1993)
Nightmare Concert (A Cat in the Brain) (1990)
Perdita Durango (1997)
Pumpkinhead II: Blood Wings (1994 Video)
Ravenous (1999) (backed by Giganticface)
Scream 2 (1997)
Shakma (1990) ([backed by The Villain)
Sphere (1998)
Stigmata (1999)
Terror Firmer (1999)
Tesis (1996)
Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Next Generation (1994)
The Dentist (1996)
The Frighteners (1996)
The Guardian (1991)
The Lawnmower Man (1992)
The Night Flier (1997)
The Ninth Gate (1999)
The Relic (1997)
The Stendhal Syndrome (1996)
The X Files (1998)


SPECIAL SECTION - REST OF THE GIANT MONSTER FILMS OF THE 90s :-

Deep Rising 1998
Gamera: Guardian of the Universe 1995
Godzilla 1998
Godzilla 2000: Millennium 1999
Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah 1991
Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II 1993
Godzilla vs. Mothra 1992
Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla 1994
Gorilla 1995
Komodo 1999
Mighty Joe Young 1998
Mimic 1997
Rebirth of Mothra 1996
Rebirth of Mothra II 1997
Rebirth of Mothra III 1998
Reptilian 1999
Starship Troopers 1997
The Iron Giant 1999
The Lost World: Jurassic Park 1997
The Mighty Kong 1998
Tremors 2: Aftershocks 1996




We now enter the 2000s...

[_____V_____]

The 00s - 2000 to 2012


IN THE CUT

Jeepers Creepers (2001) - 6
Let the Right One In (2008) - 6
Shaun of the Dead (2004) - 6
The Ring (2002) - 6

[REC] (2007) - 5
28 Days Later (2002) - 5
Dog Soldiers (2002) - 5
Paranormal Activity (2007) - 5
Saw (2004) - 5
Signs (2002) - 5

A Tale of Two Sisters (2003) - 4
American Psycho (2000) - 4
Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon (2006) - 4
The Cabin In The Woods (2011) - 4
The Descent (2005) - 4
The Mist (2007) - 4
The Others (2001) - 4

Cloverfield (2008) - 3
May (2002) - 3
Shutter (2004) - 3

Frailty (2001) - 2

Pan's Labyrinth (2006)

Ginger Snaps (2000) - 3 (backed by neverending, seconded by metternich1815, hammerfan, Sculpt, realdealblues)
Greedy Guts aka Little Otik aka Otesanek (2000) (backed by Straker, seconded by [i]Sculpt, The Villain, fortunato, Giganticface)

---------------------------------------------------------------

[I]HONORABLE MENTIONS

The Devil's Backbone (2001) - 4 (backed by neverending, seconded by Straker, fortunato, The Villain)
Battle Royale (2000) - 3 (backed by The Villain, seconded by neverending, Straker) {Giganticface*}
The Host aka Gwoemul (2006) - 3 (backed by The Villain) {Straker*, Sculpt*, Giganticface*}
Inside aka À l'intérieur (2007) - 2 (backed by Giganticface, seconded by neverending, Straker) {The Villain*, Sculpt*}
Hard Candy (2005) (backed by neverending, seconded by The Villain, metternich1815, Straker) {Sculpt*}
The Orphanage (2007) (backed by The Villain, seconded by hammerfan, metternich1815, Sculpt)



DEBATABLE

Prometheus (2012) - 4 (backed by natedog722, seconded by tiberius) (-1)



MINORITY

Dawn of the Dead (2004) - 3 (backed by Kandarian Demon)
Dead Silence (2007) - 3 (backed by natedog722, seconded by Kandarian Demon)
Diary of the Dead (2007) - 3 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by tiberius)
Final Destination (2000) - 3 (backed by metternich1815, seconded by natedog722, realdealblues, Kandarian Demon, tiberius) (-2)
Hatchet (2006) - 3 (backed by Kandarian Demon)
Session 9 (2001) - 3 (backed by Giganticface, seconded by hammerfan)
The Strangers (2008) - 3 (backed by natedog722)


30 Days of Night (2007) - 2 (backed by natedog722, seconded by hammerfan)
Bubba Ho-Tep (2002) - 2 (backed by Straker, seconded by realdeablues, Kandarian Demon) (-1)
Constantine (2005) - 2 (backed by Sculpt)
Dagon (2001) - 2 (backed by Kandarian Demon)
Daybreakers (2009) - 2 (backed by Sculpt)
Feast (2005) - 2 (backed by realdealblues)
Fido (2006) - 2 (backed by realdealblues)
Grindhouse (2007) - 2 (backed by metternich1815)
Hostel (2005) - 2 (backed by The Villain, seconded by realdealblues) (-1)
House of the Devil (2009) - 2
Ju-on (2002) - 2 (backed by Kandarian Demon)
Martyrs (2008) - 2 (backed by Giganticface)
Oldboy (2003) - 2 (backed by neverending, seconded by Giganticface) {Sculpt*}
Pulse aka (Kairo) (2001) - 2 (backed by neverending, seconded by Straker) {Sculpt*}
Splinter (2008) - 2 (backed by natedog722)
The Devil Inside (2012) - 2 (backed by metternich1815)
The Exorcism of Emily Rose (2005) - 2 (backed by natedog722, seconded by Kandarian Demon)
The Hills Have Eyes (2006) - 2 (backed by realdealblues)
The Signal (2007) - 2 (backed by realdealblues)
The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (2003) - 2 (backed by natedog722)
Thir13en Ghosts (2001) - 2 (backed by realdealblues, seconded by Kandarian Demon, tiberius) (-2)



SINGLE VOTES TO

An American Haunting (2005)
1408 (2007)
28 Weeks Later (2007)
Antichrist (2009)
Apollo 18 (2011)
AVP: Alien Vs. Predator (2004)
AVPR - Aliens versus Predator: Requiem (2007)
Beneath Still Waters (2005)
Black Sheep (2006)
Black Swan (2010) (backed by Giganticface, seconded by Sculpt)
Blade II (2002)
Boogeymen: The Killer Compilation (2001)
Borderland (2007)
Brotherhood of the Wolf (2001)
Cabin Fever (2002)
Cirque du Freak: The Vampire's Assistant (2009)
Darkness Falls (2003)
Dead Birds (2004)
Dead Snow (2009)
Devil (2010)
Disturbia (2007) (backed by Sculpt)
Drag Me To Hell (2009)
FeardotCom (2002)
Final Destination 2 (2003)
Freddy vs. Jason (2003)
Fright Night (2011) (backed by realdealblues)
Frontier(s) (2007) (backed by neverending)
Ghost Ship (2002)
Godzilla: Final Wars (2004) (backed by Sculpt)
Grave Encounters (2011)
High Tension aka Haute Tension (2005) (backed by metternich1815, seconded by Giganticface)
Home Movie (2008) (backed by neverending)
Hostel: Part II (2007)
House of 1000 Corpses (2003) (backed by metternich1815)
I am Legend (2007)
Identity (2003)
Ils aka Them (2006) (backed by neverending)
John Dies at the End (2012) (backed by Sculpt)
Julia's Eyes (2010) (backed by The Villain)
Ju-on: The Grudge 2 (2003)
Land of the Dead (2005) (backed by realdealblues)
Legion (2010)
Let Me In (2010)
Lovely Molly (2011)
Man-Thing (2005)
Mirrors (2008)
Mother of Tears (2007)
Mum & Dad (2008) (backed by neverending)
My Bloody Valentine (2009)
My Name Is Bruce (2007)
Chakushin Ari aka One Missed Call (2003)
Paranormal Activity 3 (2011)
Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale (2010) (backed by The Villain, seconded by hammerfan)
Red Dragon (2002)
Red Riding Hood (2011)
Resident Evil (2002)
Sauna (2008)
Shadow of the Vampire (2000) (backed by Straker, seconded by The Villain) (-1)
Silk (2006)
Sinister (2012)
The Amityville Horror (2005)
The Butterfly Effect (2004) (backed by Sculpt)
The Cell (2000) (backed by Sculpt)
The Daisy Chain (2008)
The Fog (2005)
The Forgotten (2004)
The Haunted Mansion (2003)
The Haunting in Connecticut (2009)
The Messengers (2007)
The Mothman Prophecies (2002)
The Poughkeepsie Tapes (2007) (backed by The Villain)
The Revenant (2009)
The Ruins (2008)
The Skeleton Key (2005)
The X Files: I Want to Believe (2008)
Thirst aka Bakjwi (2009) (backed by Straker)
Three... Extremes (2004)
Trick 'r Treat (2009)
Trollhunter (2010) (backed by The Villain)
Tucker and Dale Vs Evil (2010)
Underworld (2003)
Vacancy (2007) (backed by Sculpt)
Venom (2005)
Versus (2000)
Zombieland (2009) (backed by realdealblues)


SPECIAL SECTION - REST OF THE GIANT MONSTER FILMS OF THE 00s :-

2-Headed Shark Attack 2012
Behemoth 2010
Big Man Japan 2007
Boa vs. Python 2004
Deep Sea Beast Reigo 2005
D-War 2007
Eight Legged Freaks 2002
Gamera the Brave 2006
Garuda 2004
Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla 2002
Godzilla vs. Megaguirus 2000
Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack 2001
Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S. 2003
John Carter 2012
Journey 2: The Mysterious Island 2012
Journey to the Center of the Earth 2008
Jurassic Park III 2001
King Kong 2005
Mega Python vs. Gatoroid 2011
Mega Shark Versus Crocosaurus 2010
Mega Shark Versus Giant Octopus 2009
Mongolian Death Worm 2010
Monsters 2010
Negadon: The Monster from Mars 2005
Sharktopus 2010
Spiders 2000
Super 8 2011
The Attack of the Giant Moussaka 2000
The Monster X Strikes Back/Attack the G8 Summit 2008
The Water Horse: Legend of the Deep 2007
Tremors 3: Back to Perfection 2001
Tremors 4: The Legend Begins 2004
Ultraman the Next 2004


{*} = Support for Honorable Mentions



The initial backings/negations stay.

Adding a special "Giant Monster" films section at the end for due consideration, since it was demanded.

Remember, we are here to select TWO films from the remaining ones from the DEBATABLE section onwards.
The "In The Cut" section is NOT for debate.

Once that is done, we can proceed to select SEVEN films from the remaining stock for our Honorable Mentions.

As with the 90s, we have a few films from the 2000s with NEGATIVE VOTES as well, so it's pretty much open for debate. Although, if we go by majority, we can chuck in the 2 films with 4 votes each into our top 24 and then proceed directly to the Honorable Mentions. Or we can debate till we find our films by majority backings.

Either way, let's hear 'em.

[hammerfan]

Ginger Snaps
Session 9
30 Days of Night
Rare Exports: A Christmas Tale
The Orphanage

[Kandarian Demon]

It looks like I have already previously backed the movies I felt deserved to be in the list, and from what I've understood we can't back them again, right?

[_____V_____]

It looks like I have already previously backed the movies I felt deserved to be in the list, and from what I've understood we can't back them again, right?

Yep. You can't back the same film twice.

[hammerfan]

Yep. You can't back the same film twice.

So, do I need to go back and see what I voted for to begin with?

[_____V_____]

So, do I need to go back and see what I voted for to begin with?

Votes are fine. You can vote for a film AND back it ONCE during the subsequent debates.

[hammerfan]

Votes are fine. You can vote for a film AND back it ONCE during the subsequent debates.

OK, thanks, V.

[neverending]

So, are we voting or backing right now? This whole process gets more confusing every day.

[hammerfan]

So, are we voting or backing right now? This whole process gets more confusing every day.

Oh good. I'm glad I'm not the only one! :D:p

[Giganticface]

It looks like I have already previously backed the movies I felt deserved to be in the list, and from what I've understood we can't back them again, right?

IMO, it's not a bad idea to remind us of what you backed, if for no other reason than to put it back on the radar. (Probably good to mention that you've already backed them though, to save V the trouble of looking it up.)

...

Having said that, I'm going to re-mention three films I've already backed. These three films are not just on my top 22, but are way up near the top.


Inside

A fresh take on the slasher subgenre, it bastardizes the formula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slasher_film#Defining_the_subgenre), yet still essentially addresses almost every item in the list. This film makes me squirm more than just about anything, and that's saying something. Forget Hatchet: that's more of the same old, same old. This is something new.


Martyrs

An utterly one-of-a-kind film for those that are willing to give it the chance it deserves, and can stomach it. As the French are doing, it incorporates existing subgenre elements, but twists or re-invents them in ways no one has done before. (It's a home invasion movie... wow, that was quick. It's a demon ghost film... or is it? It's torture... a whole new level and tone.) The film is unique in that, like the experiments performed on the protagonist, the viewer becomes the subject of a similar experiment: can you endure more pain than you can imagine, to the point of transcendence to a new level of existence? Okay, maybe the viewer won't reach martyrdom by watching the film, but it will be dizzying ride in the process.


Session 9

This film does creepy, surreal atmosphere about as well as two of my favorites: The Shining and Jacob's Ladder. The location is almost a character in itself, and some of the imagery and sounds are as memorable and spine-tingling as that in The Changeling. The slow-burn creep-out storyline is as good as it gets, and has a rewarding ending.

[Straker]

Shadow of the Vampire: Despite failing to get any support first time I supported this movie, I'm going to reiterate my support for this movie. Just such a great concept and truly original it would be sad to see this miss out. Dafoe's performance alone should see this movie make its mark on our list, but throw in the fact that this might well be the most unique and original vampire tale ever told makes it really hard to ignore.

Little Otik: I really feel that we need to represent Jan Svankmajer in our list, whether it be in the cut, honourable mentions or the additional recommended movies, really doesn't matter to me, I just think his work should be acknowledged in our list. He made two quality movies in this era, Little Otik and Lunacy. Both are amazing movies that really need to be seen by a wider audience. Lunacy is the less accessible movie, but my personal favourite. If I thought I could get both movies in the cut, I would, they are amazing and deserve recognition. If you have the opportunity to watch them, then do.

t454h3CdbLY

[metternich1815]

I'll back Hard Candy, The Orphanage, and House of 1000 Corpses. I have pretty much backed everything I think is worthy for the top 24.

[Sculpt]

Little Otik: I really feel that we need to represent Jan Svankmajer in our list, whether it be in the cut, honourable mentions or the additional recommended movies, really doesn't matter to me, I just think his work should be acknowledged in our list. He made two quality movies in this era, Little Otik and Lunacy. Both are amazing movies that really need to be seen by a wider audience. Lunacy is the less accessible movie, but my personal favourite. If I thought I could get both movies in the cut, I would, they are amazing and deserve recognition. If you have the opportunity to watch them, then do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t454h3CdbLY&feature=player_embedded

Dude, you are so right! This is an excellent film.

Check out a little of part 3 of 14, here on youtube:
fkyX_7HCqac

[Sculpt]

These are the films I'm backing, or otherwise asking you'll to consider backing for 21 & 22:

Top 2 Choices:
Black Swan (2010) - in the "Repulsion" film vein. Here's interesting take on the film, "Though it touches on a number of genres and encapsulates several themes, Black Swan is best viewed as a horror movie - a slow creep into insanity that's touching and terrifying in equal measure." Plus the greatest work of music is featured: Swan Lake.
Academy Awards: Winner Best Actress: Natalie Portman. Nominated: Best Picture, Best Director, Best Cinematography, Best Film Editing

Little Otik (2000) - Expertly and beautifully executed. "There is an inherent humor to the premise, though there is a concrete desperation at the heart of Little Otik." "When a childless couple learn that they cannot have children, it causes great distress. To ease his wife's pain, the man finds a stump in the backyard and chops it and varnishes it into the shape of a child. However the woman takes the root as her baby and starts to pretend that it is real. When the root takes life they seem to have gained a child; but its appetite is much greater than that of a normal child."


Other Considerations:
John Dies at the End (2012) - smart & original, sort of "Evil Dead2" meets "Bill & Ted Bogus Journey" meets "Pulp Fiction" meets "Next (Nicolas Cage)"
Constantine (2005) - cool concept & story execution; Constantine sees into spiritual world & must fight demonic world.
Daybreakers (2009) - Well made new take on vampire story - "As the population of mortals fast begins to dwindle, a vampiric corporation sets out to capture and farm every remaining human while simultaneously researching a consumable blood substitute, headed by undead hematologist Edward Dalton (Ethan Hawke). His work is interrupted after stumbling onto a pocket of human survivors lead by Elvis (Willem Dafoe), a former vampire, whose past reveals a cure that could reverse the tide and save the human race."
Godzilla: Final Wars (2004) - Combining all the most interesting elements of all the Toho films into one. Monsters are attacking Earth. Aliens seem like saviors, but they have a secret agenda. Earth Defense Force and Godzilla stand in-between. Fast paced, tough, fun and a lot of heart.
Ginger Snaps (2000) - a horror film that also happens to be good.

[The Villain]

I loved Little Otik. I'll definitely back that.

I also want to reinforce some movies I've already backed.

Battle Royale:An amazing movie that I feel everyone needs to see.

Julia's Eyes: This is one of the most beautiful, terrifying, sad, and uplifting movies I've seen in awhile. It manages to be creepy and touching and is wonderfully acted and directed.

[Giganticface]

It sounds like I need to see Little Otik!

[Straker]

Great to see some support for Svankmajer!!

Also check out Lunacy(2005);

PmigNw4C9eI

Also for anyone not familiar with his work, definitely check out his early short films, its not strictly horror but some of the best surrealist animation you will find. Truly bizarre and not for everyone, but worth a look.

[neverending]

I'm not backing or voting for anything till I find out if we're currently backing or voting.

[Straker]

I'll be backing a few more movies when we move to the honourable mentions, its really nice to look at the list of movies still fighting for a place and realise just how strong the 2000's have been for horror. There are a few movies I don't think should've made the cut, if I'm honest, but even with that in mind, there are still a good 10 or so movies outside the cut that are real quality.

[The Villain]

I'm not backing or voting for anything till I find out if we're currently backing or voting.

Were backing movies to enter into the final two spots for the 2000's.

I'm not sure what the difference is between voting and backing. Isn't that the same thing? Aren't we just throwing support towards the final two movies we want on the list?

[Sculpt]

In every round we tend to present films for consideration, and it sort of doubles as our selections. We just naturally do this regardless of the round type.

Hopefully folks read all the posts before they really select their 2 choices for 21-22. Straker presented a great film out of nowhere. I'd actually make the suggestion we embrace what we do naturally -- by announcing a presentation of suggestions period, and after that, then follow up with asking folks two pick their 21 & 22.

[neverending]

I reckon I can vote or back films when and how I want to, and the fact I haven't said anything yet, doesn't mean I haven't read what other people have posted.


Good grief.

[_____V_____]

So, are we voting or backing right now? This whole process gets more confusing every day.

Hammerfan's question has made you confused. Why would the process be changed at the final steps of our project?

We are backing films right now. Voting period has finished a long time back, when you sent in 22 choices to me through PM from the Master List.

The order of events :-

1 - Master List of a decade posted.
2 - Top 20/22 films selected and sent via PM. (voting process)
3 - Second Master List of compiled choices posted.
4 - First debate for backings in order to finalise the 20/22.
5 - Second debate through re-posting of second Master List to find 2 more films.
6 - Debate for Honorable Mentions.
7 - End of all debates.
8 - Sticky to be posted.


I was clarifying to her that she can back a film she voted for (in her top 22 PM to me) ONCE, in any of the subsequent debates/discussions above.

[_____V_____]

All added.

Looks like we have quite a few contenders (as underlined) for those final 2 spots in the top 24.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=120

Ginger Snaps is the frontrunner here, with the maximum number of backings, followed by Little Otik, Hard Candy and The Orphanage.

Keep the thoughts coming, folks.


I'm not sure what the difference is between voting and backing. Isn't that the same thing? Aren't we just throwing support towards the final two movies we want on the list?

You vote for those films which are your choices (like the 20 you sent me via PM).
You back those films which you feel are the best, regardless of them being your choices or somebody else's.

[neverending]

I'll back Battle Royale. I believe it to be an important and influential film. Also a really great film.

[_____V_____]

Done.

Quite a number of films have received 2 backings, so I am not underlining them all. Only those with 3 or more backings have been underlined - Ginger Snaps has 4, while the other 3 films have 3 each.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=120

Keep the flow going.

[The Villain]

You vote for those films which are your choices (like the 20 you sent me via PM).
You back those films which you feel are the best, regardless of them being your choices or somebody else's.

Ah. Gotcha.

[realdealblues]

I'll back:

Final Destination (2000)
Ginger Snaps (2000)

[Straker]

Now that Little Otik appears to have wrapped up at least an honourable mentions spot, I'll add my backing to;

The Devils Backbone
Battle Royale

Also gonna have one last throw of the dice on Shadow of the Vampire..... This is John Malkovich playing FW Murnau and Willem Dafoe play Max Schreck only Schreck turns out to be a real life vampire, specifically employed by the maniacal and obsessive Murnau, in order to bring his picture 'Nosferatu' to life. If that doesn't peek your interest right there I don't know what will! Its tongue in cheek dark humour, but it also has some weight behind it asking how far our creative minds will push boundaries to create art. Willem Dafoe puts in a career best performance and Malkovich is typically menacing as the obsessive Murnau. Fans of Nosferatu should love this movie, but there is enough depth for anyone to get something out of it.

Here's a short scene, give it a watch, this is real quality writing and acting on display;

5DLJN7i2UHc

Promise that's the last time I mention it!!

[_____V_____]

Looks like Ginger Snaps will be our 21st chosen film.

Two other contenders have sprung up - Battle Royale and Final Destination.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=120

Keep the thoughts coming.

[The Villain]

I'm neg voting Final Destination. Its a fun movie with a cool concept but nothing special

[Kandarian Demon]

I will back Final Destination. There are other movies that I felt were MORE deserving, but they're out of the game now anyway, and out of the ones that are left, Final Destination is the one I would rather see on the list.

[_____V_____]

Done.

We are still at 21 films.

[tiberius]

I'll back Final Destination

[The Villain]

I'll back Shadow of The Vampire

[Kandarian Demon]

Hey V - since I know that you always wait for a certain amount of the participants to agree on the final choices, I thought I'd let you know that I will be offline for most of the weekend.

[Sculpt]

So it's easier to see, please if you would, will you put the underlined films altogether at the top? Thank you, V. (even seeing ones with 2 backings helps)

For discussions sake, I think the strongest films are:
Little Otik (2000)
The Orphanage (2007)

I think these films have garnered notability/fame, but it doesn't make them good:
The Devil's Backbone (2001) - saw recently, beautifully shot, but very slow, and story very unoriginal, with characters and story a bit shallow.
Final Destination (2000) - cool camera shots, creative story, but weak acting and dialogue, the people getting killed in accidents is sort of old hat.
Battle Royale (2000) - Just saw a month ago - the story idea is great, as is Takeski Kitano; the problem is the rest of the film, which is 85% of it, which is teens killing each other, hardly ever with any creativity. The two teen protagonist convey some tenderness to each other, but I found everything else subpar. I found it rather tedious & often times ridiculous, even for teen dialogue.
Shadow of the Vampire (2000) - Loved, loved, loved the concept! & I'm a Malcovich fan. However, for me, I just didn't think it worked. I found it tedious. As one critic wrote "almost unspeakable dialogue. ohn Malkovich recites his lines as if monomania were synonymous with monotonic." The concept was there, but the story, and/or execution failed for to me.
I don't think any of them are worthy of the HR. I'm floating a neg for one of them.

[Straker]

Battle Royale (2000) - Just saw a month ago - the story idea is great, as is Takeski Kitano; the problem is the rest of the film, which is 85% of it, which is teens killing each other, hardly ever with any creativity. The two teen protagonist convey soon tenderness to each other, but I found everything else subpar. I found it rather tedious & often times ridiculous, even for teen dialogue.


Couldn't disagree with you more on this one, sorry....What elevates BR is the depth of characters and tragic reality of each individual story. Its actually incredible story telling that so much story/ back story is given in such a short space of time and how it manages to emotionally attach the audience to each character, especially given the backdrop of absolute carnage. I'm not gonna try to name each character as my recall for Japanese names isn't all that good, but I can honestly say I don't think I have ever watched a movie and cared for so many characters as much as I did with BR. The deaths themselves are actually superficial to the story, which is an incredibly impressive achievement considering how violent the movie is.

[Sculpt]

I still think your pick of Little Otik (2000) is much richer.

[The Villain]

Couldn't disagree with you more on this one, sorry....What elevates BR is the depth of characters and tragic reality of each individual story. Its actually incredible story telling that so much story/ back story is given in such a short space of time and how it manages to emotionally attach the audience to each character, especially given the backdrop of absolute carnage. I'm not gonna try to name each character as my recall for Japanese names isn't all that good, but I can honestly say I don't think I have ever watched a movie and cared for so many characters as much as I did with BR. The deaths themselves are actually superficial to the story, which is an incredibly impressive achievement considering how violent the movie is.

I agree with Straker. Excellently put. It would be a shame if BR didn't make the list or honorable mentions.

I still think your pick of Little Otik (2000) is much richer.

Wish we could get more support for that one

[Straker]

I still think your pick of Little Otik (2000) is much richer.

I'm still hoping Little Otik makes the cut, but equally I wanted to be fair to BR and give my honest opinion about it, because I really do rate it highly.

Also on a side vote to your original post..... You already neg voted Shadow of the Vampire, in the first round cut, so you can forget about negging that again!

[fortunato]

I'd like to neg vote Prometheus, first off.

And I'll throw my support out for The Devil's Backbone and Little Otik. Very glad to see the latter getting so much advocacy on here, by the way.

[metternich1815]

I think Prometheus is a really good movie, but it does not belong on this list, even as an honorable mention, in my opinion. I had never heard of Battle Royale before, but it reminds me of The Hunger Games.

[_____V_____]

Hey V - since I know that you always wait for a certain amount of the participants to agree on the final choices, I thought I'd let you know that I will be offline for most of the weekend.

Thank you, KD, although I have a feeling we will still be debating when you return back. Enjoy your weekend trip.

So it's easier to see, please if you would, will you put the underlined films altogether at the top? Thank you, V. (even seeing ones with 2 backings helps)

The ones with the most backings for that 22nd spot have been elevated up.

Sorry, too many films have 2 backings. Not possible to move them all out and/or underline them, unless they score at least 1 more backing.

I had never heard of Battle Royale before, but it reminds me of The Hunger Games.

A must-watch for every modern horror fan.

-----------------------------------------------

All added.

Looks like we have 3 films vying for that last spot - Final Destination, Little Otik and The Orphanage.

The Devil's Backbone, Battle Royale and Hard Candy are contenders as well.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=120

Keep chippin' on, folks.

[metternich1815]

A must-watch for every modern horror fan.



I will definitely add it to my list. It sounds interesting.

[neverending]

I will definitely add it to my list. It sounds interesting.

And the film came out eight years before The Hunger Games book. If anybody's doing any influencing, it's Battle Royale.

[metternich1815]

And the film came out eight years before The Hunger Games book. If anybody's doing any influencing, it's Battle Royale.

I did not say The Hunger Games influenced it, it was just an observation. In fact, I was actually wondering if this film had any inspiration on The Hunger Games or were the similarities merely a coincidence. I think it probably had a great deal inspiration on The Hunger Games, but that's just my opinion.

[Giganticface]

My thoughts on Battle Royale are that it's really not that original of a concept. The Immoral Game Show trope has been done plenty of times, and survivalism isn't uncommon. It's a bit like The Running Man meets Lord of the Flies, however Lord of the Flies at least has one scene that was truly horror (the pig head on the stake scene). It's definitely a fun, notable child violence exploitation flick, but I never thought it was particularly horror. Certainly violent, but to me, more in the Riki-Oh sense, not the evil-force-has-just-violently-killed-you sense. I don't think any scene was really intended to be scary for the viewer, but definitely shocking, which I suppose is close enough. I can't think of anything significant it added to the horror genre, it didn't start a trend or expand on existing horror themes, and if we're saying it contributed to the copycat success of The Hunger Games, from a horror perspective, that's a step in the wrong direction. It's weird how certain films become unquestioned horror darlings, while other genuinely creepy films like Donnie Darko and Black Swan are almost universally dismissed as non-horror.

I also, personally had a very different experience than Straker did with the character development. I thought there were way too many characters, such that I ended up caring about none of them. I actually got a bit impatient and frustrated, and began enjoying the film a lot more once most of the characters were killed off, and more attention could be given to the few remaining. I also thought some of the dialog was atrocious, but that could just be less-than-ideal translation. Maybe I just watched it on a bad day and need to see it again.

This is certainly not a negative vote. I'll be the last person to neg vote a movie for being "not horror enough," and my comments on its quality are pretty subjective. I just think there are other films that are actually leaving a mark on the genre.

[neverending]

The film was highly acclaimed by critics in the Western world, with an 86% "certified fresh" rating at Rotten Tomatoes, based on 43 reviews. Robert Koehler of Variety commented, "Given the most basic characters to work with, the mostly teen cast attacks the material with frightening gusto, and Fujiwara dutifully invokes the voice of inner moral conflict. Production is exceedingly handsome and vigorous, offering no sign that Fukasaku is slowing down." He stated that, "returning to his roots as Japan's maestro of mayhem, Kinji Fukasaku has delivered" one of "his most outrageous and timely films," comparing it to "the outrage over youth violence" that Stanley Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange "generated in early-'70s Britain" and featuring some of "the most startling scenes of mayhem since the movies of the wild and bloody '70s." Jason Korsner of BBC News gave Battle Royale four out of five stars, stating that it is "a heart-stopping film, teaching us the worthy lessons of discipline, teamwork, and determination, but wrapping them up in a deliberately provocative, shockingly violent package." BBC users gave the film five out of five stars. Almar Haflidason of BBC also gave the film five out of five stars. In a review for Empire, critic Kim Newman gave the film four stars out of five. He compared it to Lord of the Flies in how it makes audiences "wonder what they would do in the same situation," but notes that Battle Royale gives "even harder choices for its school-uniformed characters." He concluded that, "Some will be uncomfortable or appalled, and the mix of humour and horror is uneasy, but this isn't a film you'll forget easily. And, seriously, what would you do?"

The Guardian critic Peter Bradshaw gave the film four stars in September 2001, choosing it as the best film of the week. He praised Takeshi Kitano's performance as the teacher and some of the scenes as "a stunningly proficient piece of film-making, plunging us into a world of delirium and fear." He notes that, among "the hail of bullets and the queasy gouts of blood, troubling narratives of yearning and sadness are played out. It is as if the violence of Battle Royale is not a satire of society at all, but simply a metaphor for the anguish of adolescent existence." He concluded that, while some "will find the explicit violence of this movie repulsive," it "is a film put together with remarkable confidence and flair. Its steely candour, and weird, passionate urgency make it compelling." Bryant Frazer of Deep Focus gave it a B+ rating and called it "a vicious take-off on reality TV that turns a high-school milieu dominated by cliques and childish relationships into a war zone." British critic Jonathan Ross stated that "if you want to catch a wildly original and super-cool slice of entertainment before it gets remade and ruined by the Americans, then I suggest you try hard not to miss it" and concluded that "it's a wildly imaginative example of just what can be achieved in a teen movie." In 2009, filmmaker Quentin Tarantino praised Battle Royale as the best film he had seen in the past two decades, stating that, "If there’s any movie that’s been made since I’ve been making movies that I wish I had made, it’s that one."

There has been renewed interest in the film following its 2012 Blu-ray release in the United States. Chris Nashawaty of Entertainment Weekly rates the film as "A" grade, positing that examination of the students' different motives for survival or subversion of the Program is a "sick blast". A.O. Scott of The New York Times gave the film a positive review, stating "[the] expertly choreographed scenes of mayhem are at once comical and appalling, and [Fukasaku's] young cast embraces the melodramatic extremity of the story with impressive conviction", adding that Battle Royale "is in many ways a better movie [than The Hunger Games] and in any case a fascinating companion, drawn from a parallel cultural universe. It is a lot uglier and also, perversely, a lot more fun." Entertainment critic for the Miami Herald Cary Darling describes Battle Royale as "tense, tragic and timely... a modern-day horror story imbued with an electric sense of drama and dread." Alexandra Cavallo of the Boston Phoenix writes, "Battle Royale is The Hunger Games not diluted for young audiences" while giving the film three stars out of four. Jeffrey M. Anderson of Combustible Celluloid gave the film 4 out of 4 stars, calling it a "gloriously sick and twisted story," and claiming that it is "endlessly entertaining, by turns gory and hilarious, disturbing and exciting." In the Chicago Sun-Times, Roger Ebert's Australia correspondent Michael Mirasol praised Battle Royale for its "thoughtful characterization" that is "lavished upon all the students" and concluded that it is an "intensely violent fable aimed at a young audience, but with true feeling, intelligence, and respect." Jake Mulligan of The Suffolk Voice gave it five out of five stars, stating that "the influence of “Royale” on works as disparate as “Kill Bill” and “The Hunger Games” cannot be measured" and describing Battle Royale as "Provocative, funny, violent, and aided by a script that somehow gives equal attention to most of the students while also displaying the well-thought out minutia behind the narrative."

R.L. Shaffer of IGN gave the film a score of 8 out of 10, taking "a moment to thank The Hunger Games for reminding us how awesome Battle Royale really is" and concluding that Battle Royale is "a masterpiece of mayhem, violence and unfettered teen melodrama." J. Hurtado of Twitch Film noted that many "reviews of Battle Royale focus on the violence, which is extreme to be sure, and not so much on the humanity of the film." He stated that "cranking up that already elevated hormonal level of emotional hysteria by throwing these students into a real life-or-death situation is incredibly effective" and that "the story of Battle Royale is the story of those teenage years and just how wrong we all were about the extent of our emotional turmoil." DVD Talk gave the original theatrical cut of the film 4.5 out of 5 stars and 4 out of 5 for the Director's Cut, concluding that it gives "a glimpse into what might very well happen should the rules of society, such as they are, ever do crumble to the point where it's everyone for themselves. There's enough black humor here and enough tense action that the film never quite feels bleak or depressing (though it does come close) - but most importantly it makes you think." Devon Ashby of CraveOnline gave the film a score of 8.5 out of 10, referring to it as "Japanese legend Kinji Fukasaku’s adolescent shooting spree opus" and "a compassionate and technically accomplished masterpiece."[54] Brent McKnight of PopMatters gave the film a score of 9 out of 10, describing it as "savage, sharp, satirical, and brutally funny," and "a bleak commentary on humanity and society."

........................

[Giganticface]

Okay, you're Wikipedia cut & paste has sold me. ;)

Seriously, though, I'm not trying to dog the movie, and if others feel that it belongs on a horror list, I'm all for it. I'm just conveying my personal experience when I saw the movie, and even though Entertainment Weekly and the New York Times thinks it's groundbreaking, I feel like that ground had already been broken.

[neverending]

I just wanted the other side presented, and that wiki section refuted every point you made, with multiple sources.

[Giganticface]

Fair enough about presenting both sides. I'm not sure, however, that it could ever refute my personal experience watching the movie (i.e., the the trouble I had keeping track of, and caring about, the characters... the way I cringed at some of the dialog), and in some ways it supports my case of it being derivative by referencing critics' comparisons of the film to A Clockwork Orange and Lord of the Flies.

It's clearly an overwhelming set of positive recommendations though -- not all of which I would typically, blindly respect -- but overwhelming positive nonetheless, which also seems to reflect the opinion of many on this forum. Also, it speaks of the film relative to the horror genre a couple times, which makes me feel better. So it's all good. :)

Also, just to be clear, I did enjoy the film, but there were things about it that didn't impress me.


---
[Edit]

I keep a database of all the films I watch, and just for fun, I looked up my data on Battle Royale. I was curious if remembering things wrong. Here's my data:

Watched: 2/8/2013
Genre: Action
Tags: adventure, survival, deadly game/ immoral reality tv
Rating: 7/10
Inaccessibility: 3/10

I'm wondering if I went a little low on the inaccessibility, but basically 3/10 means, "only mildly shocking." Also, it's really rare that I don't use the term "horror," either for the genre or for a tag. Anyway, that was just my impression. Maybe I should add "horror" to the tags now. 7/10 ain't bad though.

[neverending]

It mentioned Clockwork Orange as a film that stirred controversy about real-life violence, as BR did, so I hardly think you can call that being "derivitive." The Lord of the Flies reference was in regard to making you wonder about what you would do in a similar circumstance, not in terms of deriving any actual content from the earlier film.

If this is going to be the basis of citing a film as derivitive, we might as well label every film made in the past 80 years as "derivitive."

[Giganticface]

If this is going to be the basis of citing a film as derivitive, we might as well label every film made in the past 80 years as "derivitive."

Yeah, I agree. That's a road I definitely wouldn't want to go down.

And okay, maybe "derivitive" was the wrong word. Hopefully, even though you disagree, you understand the point I'm trying to make though, without getting overly-semantic about terminology.

[neverending]

Well, words DO have meanings. :p

[Giganticface]

Well, words DO have meanings. :p

Touché. :D

Good debate.

[_____V_____]

We are still searching for the 24th finalised film for the 2000s.

3 films are leading the race right now - Final Destination, Little Otik and The Orphanage.

And we have 3 others hot on their heels as well - The Devil's Backbone, Battle Royale and Hard Candy.

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57593&page=120

[Straker]

Final Destination is so far out of place in that list of six....

[metternich1815]

Final Destination is so far out of place in that list of six....

I disagree. I am surprised it did not already make the list. I actually consider it to be an excellent film not just a "fun" film. The premise was one of the most unique and was very well-executed, in my opinion. Additionally, the character development was quite good. Also, I believe the score complimented the film quite well. Definitely, a worthy addition to the list, in my opinion.

[Giganticface]

Final Destination is so far out of place in that list of six....

Completely agree. Unique concept but formulaic plot. Bad acting. Stereotypical characters. Not in the same league as the others in consideration.

Also, if we don't have at least one film from the New French Extremists in our list, at least as Honorable Mentions, I will have lost all faith... IMO it's an indication that personal taste is trumping the choosing of noteworthy happenings of the decade.

Inside
Martyrs
Haute Tension
Frontiers
Trouble Every Day
Ils
In My Skin
Irreversible

Any of these could be in the top 24 discussion, and I can think of another half dozen where a case could be made.