Prezzie Debates

[Vodstok]

Originally Posted by Leprucky Cougar

Whom are classified as "White Politicians" and what are the other classifications?

It was a joke. I was saying Jesse jackson and Al Sharpton are examples of two black people who are lying hypocrits, but for white people its every last politician.

Not a particularly funny joke. Now it is a very dead joke.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Originally Posted by Vodstok

It was a joke. I was saying Jesse jackson and Al Sharpton are examples of two black people who are lying hypocrits, but for white people its every last politician.

Not a particularly funny joke. Now it is a very dead joke.

Oh...I guess I get it....well sort of...

And JJ probably more of a liar than Sharpton.

[Festered]

Originally Posted by Leprucky Cougar

Come on guys. You all can't be apathetic about the situation. Sure bad things have happened. But in a world we live in, no mater how hard you try to please everyone in a situation it doesn't always happen. So don't give up on it, Just because you feel like you're in a "this sucks," situation, it doesn't always have to be like this. There was a time when you guys whom are US citizens loved your country. Don't give up on what has become distorted and be pesismistic and assume it'll only change for the worst.

Our politics is shaped by image, not deeds. If it were any other way, Ralph Nader would be a shoo-in as the next president, as he has spent a lifetime working FOR our citizens' well being. McCain offers a continuation of politics as usual, and Obama offers a pretty face and racial appeasement. But neither bring substance to the game. Unfortunately, our nation always elects those who bring us mental comfort, not challenging new ideas and solutions.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Originally Posted by Festered

Our politics is shaped by image, not deeds. If it were any other way, Ralph Nader would be a shoo-in as the next president, as he has spent a lifetime working FOR our citizens' well being. McCain offers a continuation of politics as usual, and Obama offers a pretty face and racial appeasement. But neither bring substance to the game. Unfortunately, our nation always elects those who bring us mental comfort, not challenging new ideas and solutions.

How hasn't Senator Obama brought new ideas and solutions. They are more or less new reforms to failed solutions.

How did President Bush provide us with "mental" comfort?

[Festered]

Originally Posted by Leprucky Cougar

How hasn't Senator Obama brought new ideas and solutions. They are more or less new reforms to failed solutions.

How did President Bush provide us with "mental" comfort?

From what I've heard and understand, it will take more than even 2 terms to implement any of them. This country could be in total chaos by then, or worse.

Unfortunately, there is little doubt in my mind that McCain is a shoe-in. Poor white Americans wont vote for Obama, because they're racist, middle-class whites wont vote for him, because they think he's an Islamic terrorist, And rich whites wont vote for him, because he's not really one of them. Hispanics probably wont strongly support him, because they will doubt his priorities, once in office. And moderate and conservative blacks might feel him to be too Oreo to be worth the trouble. Which leaves youthful democrat liberals, age 18-40. To my knowledge, no president has ever been elected by them.

And Bush may not be providing "mental" comfort now. Why should he? He has nothing to gain by it. But back when the evil Bin Laden and Hussein roamed the countryside, he did.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Originally Posted by Festered

From what I've heard and understand, it will take more than even 2 terms to implement any of them. This country could be in total chaos by then, or worse.

Unfortunately, there is little doubt in my mind that McCain is a shoe-in. Poor white Americans wont vote for Obama, because they're racist, middle-class whites wont vote for him, because they think he's an Islamic terrorist, And rich whites wont vote for him, because he's not really one of them. Hispanics probably wont strongly support him, because they will doubt his priorities, once in office. And moderate and conservative blacks might feel him to be too Oreo to be worth the trouble. Which leaves youthful democrat liberals, age 18-40. To my knowledge, no president has ever been elected by them.

And Bush may not be providing "mental" comfort now. Why should he? He has nothing to gain by it. But back when the evil Bin Laden and Hussein roamed the countryside, he did.

Well what have you heard and what did you fathom from that. Did you watch tuesday night's debate in it's entirety--even the other two (the first one) and the VP debate? It's not that much of a stretch--that sounds more of a conservative generalization of an analysis.

As for poor white Americans....are you talking about those whom reside in the stereotype of the "red neck, cross burning, confederate-flag hanging, predominantly southerners" as for the racist claim you make. Because I know several poor registered white voters who are in deed Obama supporters; and I can only imagine there are countless others whom can match the number of racist ones you say are out there. So I grant you this possibility, but I fail to see the substantial validity in this argument.

As for middle-class whites and the racist comment...grant they may believe he's an Islamic terrorist, that's only a claim out of ignorance. If you can recall many Americans were saying the same thing about Arab & Indian Americans during and post 9/11. The racial profiling for this group skyrocketed and slightly exceeded those of blacks. Many falsely accused this group and still give sketchy looks at them whom don't assimilate to American culture (ie-Turbans, tunics, etc) at airports and such. So if they are still profiled and we still live as we did before (still vote, still work, etc) even if this were true it wouldn't be as big of a deal; for it has occured before. It simply be a phase we become melodramatic about over the course of time. For those who intend on still believing that story though here's some clarification: He's a christian. His father was Kenyan. His mom was white. His middle name "Hussein" came from his grandfather's last name. "Hussein" became his granddad's name when he converted to Muslim. However he was raised in Hawaii and was raised and still practices christianity.

As for the rich white Americans not voting for him because he's not one of them. This may have some validity; although the justification doesn't seem logical often times this is how that particular group votes. However, my intention is that because now moreso than ever, Obama has received the most "turn around" delegates than ever. By that I mean republican senators, governors, mayors, etc that have turned to the democratic party for Obama's cause and because of the new direction he talks about. Though yes, there are those that may agree with Obama but because of the lobbyists and investments they've already pledged with the republican party in the past--they venture out to their personal interests instead of the greater good of the American People.

Your hispanic argument about them being skeptical about his priorities: I feel this is too genreal and can go both ways for each candidate. And why generalize "hispanics" as a whole. There may not be many, but there are perhaps class differentiations between this group. Some may take offense to that.

Moderate and conservative blacks feeling he's too "Oreo"? Did you watch his speech in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on race, early this year. In addition to this one, the one in the summer in Germany? These claims were assertions that Jesse Jackson made about him early in the campaign; but were later brought up and addressed after he made defamatory remarks about Obama. Between you and I, I belive it was just him lashing out in anger as a former black candidate, as well as Al Sharpton (whom were both ministers by the way)because of jealousy they had; because they didn't get as far in the race as he did. Now I can't speak for all African American communities, however for the ones that I am affiliated with and have communicated with the unity remains present; and the support they have for him is not soley on race approval. Because if that's the case he's not 100% African American--he's biracial. So the notion that Obama negators could make about the only reason blacks support him is because he's black is thrown out of the water. Not saying there aren't any of those around (I've encountered a few) but not the majority. And the majority should be the focus.


The younger voters (18-40)...I believe that had a great deal in JFK's prominence as venerability. Maybe not as much because in the 60-70s, I don't think this group voted as much but when they did, you could see the impact.

And the mental comfort argument again...well of course he should be providing it....even though his last days in the Oval Office are approaching it's his duty as Commander in Chief to alleviate any mental or emotional tensions the nation may be insecure about, as they make this transition to a new leader--facing the same problem. What does he need it for? Notoriety. Especially in 2006, with the democrats winning the majority back in the 110th congress...he was in a lame duck scenario...he needed all the political capital he could get to pass things like the stimulus package, etc. Trying to make a terrible situation go from horrible to "bad" which isn't that awesome either. All he's doing now is trying to cement his legacy as being the Prez who got us in a rut but did a great deal to cover if not heal completely the boo-boos.

[Festered]

Originally Posted by Leprucky Cougar

Well what have you heard and what did you fathom from that. Did you watch tuesday night's debate in it's entirety--even the other two (the first one) and the VP debate? It's not that much of a stretch--that sounds more of a conservative generalization of an analysis.

As for poor white Americans....are you talking about those whom reside in the stereotype of the "red neck, cross burning, confederate-flag hanging, predominantly southerners" as for the racist claim you make. Because I know several poor registered white voters who are in deed Obama supporters; and I can only imagine there are countless others whom can match the number of racist ones you say are out there. So I grant you this possibility, but I fail to see the substantial validity in this argument.

As for middle-class whites and the racist comment...grant they may believe he's an Islamic terrorist, that's only a claim out of ignorance. If you can recall many Americans were saying the same thing about Arab & Indian Americans during and post 9/11. The racial profiling for this group skyrocketed and slightly exceeded those of blacks. Many falsely accused this group and still give sketchy looks at them whom don't assimilate to American culture (ie-Turbans, tunics, etc) at airports and such. So if they are still profiled and we still live as we did before (still vote, still work, etc) even if this were true it wouldn't be as big of a deal; for it has occured before. It simply be a phase we become melodramatic about over the course of time. For those who intend on still believing that story though here's some clarification: He's a christian. His father was Kenyan. His mom was white. His middle name "Hussein" came from his grandfather's last name. "Hussein" became his granddad's name when he converted to Muslim. However he was raised in Hawaii and was raised and still practices christianity.

As for the rich white Americans not voting for him because he's not one of them. This may have some validity; although the justification doesn't seem logical often times this is how that particular group votes. However, my intention is that because now moreso than ever, Obama has received the most "turn around" delegates than ever. By that I mean republican senators, governors, mayors, etc that have turned to the democratic party for Obama's cause and because of the new direction he talks about. Though yes, there are those that may agree with Obama but because of the lobbyists and investments they've already pledged with the republican party in the past--they venture out to their personal interests instead of the greater good of the American People.

Your hispanic argument about them being skeptical about his priorities: I feel this is too genreal and can go both ways for each candidate. And why generalize "hispanics" as a whole. There may not be many, but there are perhaps class differentiations between this group. Some may take offense to that.

Moderate and conservative blacks feeling he's too "Oreo"? Did you watch his speech in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on race, early this year. In addition to this one, the one in the summer in Germany? These claims were assertions that Jesse Jackson made about him early in the campaign; but were later brought up and addressed after he made defamatory remarks about Obama. Between you and I, I belive it was just him lashing out in anger as a former black candidate, as well as Al Sharpton (whom were both ministers by the way)because of jealousy they had; because they didn't get as far in the race as he did. Now I can't speak for all African American communities, however for the ones that I am affiliated with and have communicated with the unity remains present; and the support they have for him is not soley on race approval. Because if that's the case he's not 100% African American--he's biracial. So the notion that Obama negators could make about the only reason blacks support him is because he's black is thrown out of the water. Not saying there aren't any of those around (I've encountered a few) but not the majority. And the majority should be the focus.


The younger voters (18-40)...I believe that had a great deal in JFK's prominence as venerability. Maybe not as much because in the 60-70s, I don't think this group voted as much but when they did, you could see the impact.

And the mental comfort argument again...well of course he should be providing it....even though his last days in the Oval Office are approaching it's his duty as Commander in Chief to alleviate any mental or emotional tensions the nation may be insecure about, as they make this transition to a new leader--facing the same problem. What does he need it for? Notoriety. Especially in 2006, with the democrats winning the majority back in the 110th congress...he was in a lame duck scenario...he needed all the political capital he could get to pass things like the stimulus package, etc. Trying to make a terrible situation go from horrible to "bad" which isn't that awesome either. All he's doing now is trying to cement his legacy as being the Prez who got us in a rut but did a great deal to cover if not heal completely the boo-boos.

Unfortunately, I’ve been cut off from society for 2 weeks, trapped in the wilds of western New York, on a job, so I missed the bulk of the debates so far. They are usually a reiteration of prior speeches laid out in a conversational format, and tend to concentrate on image, so I don’t feel I missed much.

I’m under the assumption that you are African-American(or American if you will), so you must be aware that there are just as many white racists above the Mason-Dixon line as below it(if not more). And while they may not bandy about the “N” word in your presence, trust me, it is used quite often. Sometimes, I wonder myself, about my personal associations, as I don’t care to hear that talk. And if anything, "red neck, cross burning, confederate-flag hanging, predominantly southerners" nowadays, seem to have more of a problem coping with the influx of Spanish speaking peoples than any other group. I am born and raised in New Orleans, a southern city that has been predominantly A-A for quite a long time(all my life, anyway). And although I’ve encountered racists in that city, it is far from the norm. We all grew up together, played together, schooled together, partied together, lived together, and even die together. It is the nature of that city. Laissez les bons temps rouler. Although I don’t reside there anymore, I will always be grateful for my upbringing, as it prevented me from adopting a xenophobic attitude towards other cultures.


That being said, my viewpoints on this political race are based more on a “been there, done that” frame of mind. I have seen rallying cries for change, many times before. R. Kennedy, MLK and even George Wallace(yes, even he had a change of heart, and wanted to atone for his past by doing something for the working man). All stopped by a bullet. Besides them, I have also seen many promising world political and religious leaders come to the same end. So I don’t base any of my remarks on what Obama or McCain or anyone else claims they can do. I base them on what mankind will let them do. Remember, we are descendents of a breed that has a habit of killing it’s saviours. And I see no real progress over the last few thousand years in that area.

Idealism is a wonderful frame of mind, but ultimately devours those unwilling to shed it, much like any other addiction. To think that any candidate has the greater interests of humanity in mind, is naïve and sentimental. These men(and woman) want a job. Period. And they’re willing to pour any honey in your ear to get it. Will they do anything with their position, once it is attained. Maybe. But it probably will be too little, too late. We have too many huge problems building up for way too long, for any bill, law or other bandaid to fix. As an example, this energy crisis has been going on since the 70’s. We saw this all coming, almost 40 years ago. What did we do about it? Bought bigger autos, of course. Found ever larger wastes of natural resources. Global warming? Known about it for at least 60 years. What did we do about it? Create more pollutants, of course. Terrorists? One could argue that we’ve been under attack by them since Hitler came to power in the 1930s. He had no true personal goal for his country, other than mass self destruction. We did nothing until our hands were forced. Surely we thought, no primitive countries like Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq could dare assault a great power such as us. We were wrong. But, unlike the old days, where we could just nuke our problems away, we are suddenly discovering that they can too.

So tell me, where will Obama’s or McCain’s big quick fix come from? Will either clean up a mess that’s been building for over a century. In 4 years. Doubtful.


This presidential campaign reeks of collusion, more than any I’ve ever witnessed. About a year ago, when Bush’s ratings started plummeting more rapidly than Herbert Hoover’s, the Dems came up with the 2 longest shots in presidential history. Obama and Hillary. Did they think the Reps were in such bad odor that just about anybody could beat them? Or did they want to insure a Republican victory? I’ve seen enough horse races to know when one’s been fixed. In my eyes, the 2 party system is really one. And nothing really will change, until their lock on government is removed.

If you want to drop a line in 4 years, say hello and continue this discussion, I’ll be in Bolivia. At least there, I won’t die for lack of a gun.

[Zero]

wow - that was an enormous load of bull hocky.

i vote festered as the new member i most want to see leave

[Festered]

Originally Posted by Zero

wow - that was an enormous load of bull hocky.

i vote festered as the new member i most want to see leave

AWW!!!! YOU'RE TOO KIND!!!!!!!!!



Actually, me and Leprucky Cougar were having a verbal diarrheathon to see who could post the largest puddle of pan drippings .................


and then you had to go spoil the fucking ambiance!!!!!

[Leprucky Cougar]

Originally Posted by Festered

AWW!!!! YOU'RE TOO KIND!!!!!!!!!



Actually, me and Leprucky Cougar were having a verbal diarrheathon to see who could post the largest puddle of pan drippings .................


and then you had to go spoil the fucking ambiance!!!!!

Yes, yes, oh but in due time another pan-passing will resume. :) But right on, zero!