HDC Presents: 100 Years of Horror

[Giganticface]

I'd like to give just a little time to guage interest in the arguments I made if possible. Based on the criteria I outlined, I'm going to back the following four movies:


Italian/Giallo:
- I'll back Black Sunday (aka The Mask of Satan) (1960), although I'm happy to change my vote to Black Sabbath, Kill Baby Kill, Blood and Black Lace, or any Mario Bava film that anyone is willing to back. IMO, if Bava can't make a list of the 28 most important horror films of the 60s, something is seriously wrong.


The Sixties being a Transitional Period:
- This is an odd choice, and won't get any support, but I'm going to back Django Kill... If You Live, Shoot! (1967). It's a horror/western hybrid that reflects the cultural changes of the time and a general shift towards cynicism in art: Hypocrisy in religion, gay cowboy gangs, suicide, and explicit violence (the scalping scene is epic). Plus, the avenging protagonist is the walking dead, and a generally a bad dude. An anti-hero.

If anyone else gets what I'm saying about this concept, agrees and would like to put forth a different example, I'll consider backing that too. Basically, it's the difference between Help! and Revolver.


Inception of Splatter:
- As mentioned (and already accounted for by V), I'll back Blood Feast (1963), not because it's a great movie (it sucks), but because it has balls, and it opened the door for a whole new element in horror.

[metternich1815]

I have decided that I will remove my backing for Viy because I do not think anyone will back it. I backed it, so that there would be a little more variety. I will replace that backing with another one. I will back Black Sabbath. Giganticface made a great point. And, now that he says that, it is unbelievable that there are no Bava films on this list, so I decided to back, arguably, his most important film. Sorry, I do not know the film's foreign title.

[Giganticface]

Originally Posted by metternich1815

I have decided that I will remove my backing for Viy because I do not think anyone will back it. I backed it, so that there would be a little more variety. I will replace that backing with another one. I will back Black Sabbath. Giganticface made a great point. And, now that he says that, it is unbelievable that there are no Bava films on this list, so I decided to back, arguably, his most important film. Sorry, I do not know the film's foreign title.

I'll back Black Sabbath (1963) (aka I tre volti della paura) too. Thanks, Mett.

[neverending]

I think the only reason Bava isn't there is because of V's use of foreign titles. I'm not putting the blame on V, but on lazy bastards like myself who couldn't be bothered with looking up foreign titles, when there were hundreds of other films to consider. I think Black Sunday should be on the list (not only for Bava, but Barbara Steele as well!), but I can't think of any of the 6 chosen to eliminate.

I know you think Karloff/Price/Lorre/Corman/Matheson are overrepresented, but there's a reason if someone says name a horror actor, the majority of the time it's going to be one of those. And it's a better film than some already chosen- such as Masque of the Red Death, or Pit and the Pendulum.

Mr. Sardonicus is certainly one of the top films of Castle's career.

Little Shop is a legend and an icon.

Triffids has been argued for persuasively by several.

Onibaba- I've never seen it, but if we eliminate it, then we lose diversity.

Blood Feast- as has been said, Lewis should be on the list. 2000 Manics is a better film, but this is his most famous.

I guess if Black Sunday was going to be included, I'd recommend eliminating one of the last two. Which should we lose- early Asian horror or a seminal Lewis film?

[The Villain]

I'm good with those movies selected

[Straker]

I am happy with the final 6, its unfortunate if Bava misses out, but if he misses out at the expense of, for example, Kanito Shindo (Onibaba, Kuroneko) then that what have we really accomplished? I could've happily backed Onibaba, Kuroneko or Kwaidan, two of which made my original 20. I chose Onibaba because I figured it would get more support and was the best route to get Asian horror represented. Really hope we don't see it drop out at this late stage.

I also want to add that I backed I Vampiri for the 50's, not only was this one of Bava's first directing efforts, it was also the first Italian horror of the sound era. Not the best example of his work, but still a landmark in the genre and Bava's career, featuring both beautiful cinematography from Bava and some quality set design. It received no backing.

[Kandarian Demon]

Originally Posted by neverending

I think the only reason Bava isn't there is because of V's use of foreign titles. I'm not putting the blame on V, but on lazy bastards like myself who couldn't be bothered with looking up foreign titles, when there were hundreds of other films to consider.

Yes... I'm guilty too.

Originally Posted by neverending

I know you think Karloff/Price/Lorre/Corman/Matheson are overrepresented, but there's a reason if someone says name a horror actor, the majority of the time it's going to be one of those.

Also some actors were simply in a LOT of movies, especially in the days of "classic horror", and saying that an actor can only be represented X amount of times could mean that several important movies would have to be "banned" from the final list.

[Giganticface]

Originally Posted by neverending

I think the only reason Bava isn't there is because of V's use of foreign titles. I'm not putting the blame on V, but on lazy bastards like myself who couldn't be bothered with looking up foreign titles, when there were hundreds of other films to consider. I think Black Sunday should be on the list (not only for Bava, but Barbara Steele as well!), but I can't think of any of the 6 chosen to eliminate.

I know you think Karloff/Price/Lorre/Corman/Matheson are overrepresented, but there's a reason if someone says name a horror actor, the majority of the time it's going to be one of those. And it's a better film than some already chosen- such as Masque of the Red Death, or Pit and the Pendulum.

Mr. Sardonicus is certainly one of the top films of Castle's career.

Little Shop is a legend and an icon.

Triffids has been argued for persuasively by several.

Onibaba- I've never seen it, but if we eliminate it, then we lose diversity.

Blood Feast- as has been said, Lewis should be on the list. 2000 Manics is a better film, but this is his most famous.

I guess if Black Sunday was going to be included, I'd recommend eliminating one of the last two. Which should we lose- early Asian horror or a seminal Lewis film?

You make a compelling case.

I'd rather not lose Onibaba or Blood Feast for what they represent.

I wish we could replace the Quatermass sequel with Triffids, but I suppose it's too late for that.

Little Shop is certainly iconic. Personally, I think we could live without it because it's not _required_ on a horror list... it's horror-themed. If it were that essential, it should have made the initial top 20. But yeah, it's a tough one to lose.

I would vote for dropping The Raven. I know you backed it, and it might be better than some already on the list, but it's not seminal -- it's just another really good film in a genre that's already heavily represented in the list. Ignoring the inception of giallo would be a flaw in our "history."

[edit]:
Also, remember we're talking about Honorable Mentions here. That doesn't have to mean "the next best that didn't make the list." It's a good way to do some clean up on the proper list. We have Asian horror, B-movie/exploitation/splatter-inception, comedy (assuming we keep Little Shop), and giallo if we get Bava in. I once read a top N horror list that had Michael Jackson's Thriller as an Honorable Mention. I thought that was a great idea. You would never in a million years include it in the list of proper "top" movies, but it was a great way to include it in the conversation, and show that it had significance.

[Kandarian Demon]

I would like to remove one of my backings, if it's ok.

I backed both the Triffids and The Raven - but as much as I love The Raven, I would like to withdraw my backing from it if I can, to improve the chances of The Triffids, which I think deserves the spot more than The Raven - even if they are both excellent movies in their own ways.

[Sculpt]

Originally Posted by Giganticface

I'd like to give just a little time to guage interest in the arguments I made if possible. Based on the criteria I outlined, I'm going to back the following four movies:


Italian/Giallo:
- I'll back Black Sunday (aka The Mask of Satan) (1960), although I'm happy to change my vote to Black Sabbath, Kill Baby Kill, Blood and Black Lace, or any Mario Bava film that anyone is willing to back. IMO, if Bava can't make a list of the 28 most important horror films of the 60s, something is seriously wrong.


The Sixties being a Transitional Period:
- This is an odd choice, and won't get any support, but I'm going to back Django Kill... If You Live, Shoot! (1967). It's a horror/western hybrid that reflects the cultural changes of the time and a general shift towards cynicism in art: Hypocrisy in religion, gay cowboy gangs, suicide, and explicit violence (the scalping scene is epic). Plus, the avenging protagonist is the walking dead, and a generally a bad dude. An anti-hero.

If anyone else gets what I'm saying about this concept, agrees and would like to put forth a different example, I'll consider backing that too. Basically, it's the difference between Help! and Revolver.


Inception of Splatter:
- As mentioned (and already accounted for by V), I'll back Blood Feast (1963), not because it's a great movie (it sucks), but because it has balls, and it opened the door for a whole new element in horror.

I've enjoyed reading your incite in the era, getting some representation of what we might call 'a minor sub-genre', and a nod towards Bava's. Actually, it would be cool to include your write-up below the Honorable Mentions.

My thinking on having diversity, and having a representative film by a director of many films, or rep of a country, or being concerned with having too many films with an actor or actors is: I personally think it's a much higher priority to pick the best films. The single film is king.

If you've ever worked on a film/video/play/recording/etc, you get an appreciation for the 'life of their own' these films take. It comes from the input of so many different people, from personal, accidental & metaphysical means. What actor is in it, the director, country, era elements are secondary -- something to consider -- but secondary. That's just my long considered opinion. I think if a film is good enough, it will earn a spot on it's own merit.

Having said that, I'm OK with the original outcome we came to, and V presented. Which was:

Day of the Triffids (1962)
The Raven (1963)
Onibaba (1964)
The Little Shop of Horrors (1960)
Mr. Sardonicus (1961)
Blood Feast (1963)

As I stated, I think the best films deserve to get in. I think Day of Triffids and The Raven are the best, & too big to leave out.

I don't have an objection to replacing Blood Feast (or Mr Sar/Sho/Oni) if you guys really think Black Sunday is a straight-up better film.

Finally, if we're still in discussion, I actually agree with Metternich, where I think Village of the Damned (1960) is a classic. I'd be in favor of replacing Blood Feast with Village. But again, I'm OK with the list of 6 we have.