HDC Presents: 100 Years of Horror

[neverending]

Okay, I am happy...lol...

I just want to add one more thought to this debate. These lists we create are not just amusing passtimes for us to fool around with and forget. People read them. They take them into account in their formation of opinions.

Just a few weeks ago a small press that specializes in horror fiction posted a link to our Sub-Genres of Horror list on their facebook page as a good example of horror genres. So, we have a responsibility to try and reflect some kind of reality. That's why I argue so hard in some cases. These lists are going to be around for a long time.

[Straker]

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon

But a vote for a movie you haven't seen means nothing.

I disagree and its something I've discussed previously in this thread too.... If there is a weight of evidence to demonstrate how significant a movie is or how much impact it had on the genre we are discussing, I think a case can certainly be made for a blind backing. Its fine to give your own opinions and have a certain level of due diligence and no one is being made to conform to anyone else opinion. However, if someone can convince me of the importance and impact a movie has had on the genre, you better believe I'm going to sit up and take notice. Or do you really think that the people who have blind backed movies are doing so because they want to appear 'cool'?

It's my understanding that we are trying to vote for more than just 'our favourite' movies.... I can name a ton of movies that have immense nostalgic value to me personally that would not even come close to any of the lists I have made for this project.

I just think there is more room than people realise in this debate. Are we saying that if we had only seen 20 movies from a decade that we should list those as the top 20 movies of the decade, simply because they are the best by default? That just seems wrong.

Ultimately these lists are what they are and I don't mind how people vote or what people back or don't back, but I am going to continue backing the movies I do, despite the majority failing to get much support. I also appreciate anyone who has blind backed any movie I have supported and I don't feel the backings 'mean nothing' or have been done because they 'like me'... I hope my backings have stood on their own merit...

[metternich1815]

I'll back War of the Worlds.

[Kandarian Demon]

Originally Posted by neverending

Okay, I am happy...lol...

I just want to add one more thought to this debate. These lists we create are not just amusing passtimes for us to fool around with and forget. People read them. They take them into account in their formation of opinions.

Just a few weeks ago a small press that specializes in horror fiction posted a link to our Sub-Genres of Horror list on their facebook page as a good example of horror genres. So, we have a responsibility to try and reflect some kind of reality. That's why I argue so hard in some cases. These lists are going to be around for a long time.

I get where you're coming from. I just don't agree that there's only one "right opinion" when it comes to art. If there was, it would be boring anyway!

[metternich1815]

Also, I find it surprising that anyone would not consider Alien (1979) a horror movie. The film might possess obvious sci-fi themes, but, in my opinion, the horror aspect of it is very strong. In my opinion, it is clearly a horror movie. Aliens you could make the argument is not a horror movie (although, I classify the entire series as horror), but find it hard not to classify that film as horror.

[Kandarian Demon]

Originally Posted by Straker

If there is a weight of evidence to demonstrate how significant a movie is or how much impact it had on the genre we are discussing, I think a case can certainly be made for a blind backing.

Are you saying that, for example, the fact that something won an award means that it IS good no matter what you personally think? In that case, I feel the need to remind you that Justin Bieber is an award winning performer :D Peer pressure created by the media doesn't mean that something is actually good.

If we all blindly followed the masses, nothing would ever change for the better in this world.

Some movies are only "classics" because someone had the money and the connections to start a hype. Just like some great movies gets completely overlooked simply because no one involved were particularly well known or had the money to promote the movie properly.

Originally Posted by Straker

However, if someone can convince me of the importance and impact a movie has had on the genre, you better believe I'm going to sit up and take notice.

If I haven't watched a movie and someone recommends that I do, I usually will. But if I think the movie is crap, I won't pretend that I don't. I don't think this particular movie we've been talking about today is crap, though - like I said, I just never thought of it as a horror movie.

Originally Posted by Straker

It's my understanding that we are trying to vote for more than just 'our favourite' movies.... I can name a ton of movies that have immense nostalgic value to me personally that would not even come close to any of the lists I have made for this project.

I didn't back "Plan 9 From Outer Space" because I felt it was wrong to back a movie that is actually famous for being so BAD that it's entertaining - even though I love the movie. So in that way, I agree with you. BUT I will not back something that I don't think deserves it just because someone else thinks it does. Who gets to have "the right opinion"?

Originally Posted by Straker

I just think there is more room than people realise in this debate. Are we saying that if we had only seen 20 movies from a decade that we should list those as the top 20 movies of the decade, simply because they are the best by default? That just seems wrong.

No absolutely not, but I am saying that I don't agree with "blind backing" a movie just because it is the best by default.

Originally Posted by Straker

Ultimately these lists are what they are and I don't mind how people vote or what people back or don't back, but I am going to continue backing the movies I do, despite the majority failing to get much support..

I hope so! And so will I... that's my whole point :D

[Straker]

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon

Are you saying that, for example, the fact that something won an award means that it IS good no matter what you personally think? In that case, I feel the need to remind you that Justin Bieber is an award winning performer :D Peer pressure created by the media doesn't mean that something is actually good.

No, I'm saying that it is possible to be moved by an argument someone puts forward without having every single fact available on the given subject.... You must have opinions about things that you don't fully understand or appreciate and sometimes those opinions must change based on other information that you receive that isn't primary source.

The thing I have questioned is your comment that a blind vote, based on a strong argument put forward by a peer, is 'worthless'.

Also, no one has asked you to back anything you don't want to, so I'm not sure why you feel that you are standing against some sort of peer pressure. It's you that is criticising other peoples backing of a tiny percentage of movies they haven't seen.

And as for the whole Justin Beiber angle.... Did you ever stop to think that maybe you are the horror equivalent of a Justin Bieber fan? :p

[Kandarian Demon]

Originally Posted by Straker

No, I'm saying that it is possible to be moved by an argument someone puts forward without having every single fact available on the given subject....

Judging a movie you haven't even seen? That makes no sense to me, sorry.

Originally Posted by Straker

Also, no one has asked you to back anything you don't want to, so I'm not sure why you feel that you are standing against some sort of peer pressure.

I don't feel that I am. When I was talking about peer pressure, I was referring to how the popularity of some movies are created, and why I don't nescesarily think that, for example, the fact that a movie won an award means that it's actually any good.

Originally Posted by Straker

It's you that is criticising other peoples backing of a tiny percentage of movies they haven't seen.

I did, yes. I also said "I don't make the rules", though. It's just an opinion, as others have stated their opinions about how mine or others votes can't be taken seriously.

It has also been implied several times that I or other were more or less morons and "not real horror fans" for not sharing certain opinions about certain movies, and I'll admit that I was pretty annoyed when I wrote my first post on this subject.

Originally Posted by Straker

And as for the whole Justin Beiber angle.... Did you ever stop to think that maybe you are the horror equivalent of a Justin Bieber fan? :p

And there you go... I'm not a "real horror fan" because I don't agree :D

Seriously though, it's not personal... I just really don't agree that there is "one right opinion" that we should all support blindly.

[Straker]

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon

Seriously though, it's not personal... I just really don't agree that there is "one right opinion" that we should all support blindly.

I don't get what you are talking about if I'm being honest.... Who has told you that there is only one right opinion? I feel like you are trying to rebel against an authority that doesn't exist.

Some of the comments that have been made by people in this thread go beyond simply watching a movie and forming an opinion that stops at 'good or bad'. Context is important and it is something you cant define by simply watching a movie. We are lucky at HDC to have members with a little more in depth knowledge on the genre or perhaps some of our older members who are able to put movies into a historical context. Do you really think you can get a feel for the importance of a movie simply by watching it? If I can talk to a guy who made the movie or maybe went and watched it at its first showing on release, then I am going to take that into consideration. If someone can present an argument and explain to me why a specific movie is a landmark in the genre and its something I hadn't previously considered, then its something I want to take into consideration when making my decisions.

[Sculpt]

Straker, I have immense respect for YOUR assessment of films YOU'VE seen. I really mean that.

I also have to strongly agree with Kan. Everyone, to take your responsibility seriously in selecting these films, PLEASE, never back or Neg a film you haven't seen!

You can best show your respect for opinions of any of your fellow HDC members by keeping our lists accurate and valid -- which is done by not assuming and/or copying others' opinions, and instead by only voting on films you've seen yourself.

Honestly, I thought this was an unspoken obvious rule. In fact, I feel so strongly about it, I think we should vote on it being a rule.