The All-Time HDC Tournament of Tournaments

[roshiq]

Originally Posted by neverending

FRANKENSTEIN!

A landmark & trend setter.

.....Ditto

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alkytrio666

I know.

...wow...

...I know I've been chastised for critisizing some of these results, but come on...


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I'm gonna go with Pulp Fiction for its originality.

FRANKENSTEIN wasn't original?

[alkytrio666]

Originally Posted by neverending

FRANKENSTEIN wasn't original?

In some ways it was- but in most ways it wasn't.
It took its main ideas from Shelley's novel and then produced the most basic presentation of them possible. Most of this had to do with budget/studio restrictions, but anything that wasn't taken directly from Shelley's book was some kind of simplification of it.

So if we're speaking in terms of sheer for-the-screen originality, I've gotta go with Tarantino's mothership.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alkytrio666

In some ways it was- but in most ways it wasn't.
It took its main ideas from Shelley's novel and then produced the most basic presentation of them possible. Most of this had to do with budget/studio restrictions, but anything that wasn't taken directly from Shelley's book was some kind of simplification of it.

So if we're speaking in terms of sheer for-the-screen originality, I've gotta go with Tarantino's mothership.

Humbug!
Pierce's makeup was one of the most original creations on film, ever- certainly back then! The lab created by Strickfaden was the blueprint for mad doctor's labs for 30 years. And certainly Clive's portrayal set the template for mad scientists for... forever. And the biggest inovation- playing the monster for sympathy broke tradition. The film created an entire HORROR FILM INDUSTRY. This one film, because of being such a trend setter and for capturing the audience's heart so decisively assured that horror films as a genre would enjoy a long life.

FRANKENSTEIN'S influence cannot be overestimated.

[alkytrio666]

Originally Posted by neverending

Humbug!
Pierce's makeup was one of the most original creations on film, ever- certainly back then! The lab created by Strickfaden was the blueprint for mad doctor's labs for 30 years. And certainly Clive's portrayal set the template for mad scientists for... forever. And the biggest inovation- playing the monster for sympathy broke tradition. The film created an entire HORROR FILM INDUSTRY. This one film, because of being such a trend setter and for capturing the audience's heart so decisively assured that horror films as a genre would enjoy a long life.

FRANKENSTEIN'S influence cannot be overestimated.

Yes, it did do all that. However, it also obliviated an originally humanistic and mature commentary on mankind and replaced it with a monster movie armed only with the intention of a "monster bad, man good" mindset.
Well, this complete mis-translation was an enormous success, and one that may have been responsible for an immediate stereotype that horror movies could not bare any kind of morale on life but instead were only created with the intention of showering their audiences with an appropriate amount of shock value followed by an inevitable victory by man.

I sincerely enjoy James Whale's Frankenstein, but its complete disregard for the intention of its source material has always been a turn-off for me, and when it is pitted against a movie like Pulp Fiction, it falls short.

If this were King Kong, things would be different.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by alkytrio666

Yes, it did do all that. However, it also obliviated an originally humanistic and mature commentary on mankind and replaced it with a monster movie armed only with the intention of a "monster bad, man good" mindset.
Well, this complete mis-translation was an enormous success, and one that may have been responsible for an immediate stereotype that horror movies could not bare any kind of morale on life but instead were only created with the intention of showering their audiences with an appropriate amount of shock value followed by an inevitable victory by man.

I sincerely enjoy James Whale's Frankenstein, but its complete disregard for the intention of its source material has always been a turn-off for me, and when it is pitted against a movie like Pulp Fiction, it falls short.

If this were King Kong, things would be different.

With all due respect, I belive you have completely misread the film. Karloff's monster is clearly shown as a tortured soul and a sympathetic character. We are not lead to root for the lumbering mob, but for the poor confused creature who has no idea how to function in the world.

I'm sorry, but I COMPLETELY disagree with your analysis and the legacy the film left us with. In fact I find it to be exactly OPPOSITE what you say. In later Universal Frankenstein films the creature was demoted to a mere thug, but in the first three, it's the monster we root for. The Dr. even says this- that he considers the creature to be a man.

In the book Frankenstein hates his creation and wants only to kill it. He never sees his creation as a man. This is, indeed a basic difference in the book, but I believe it results in exactly to opposite effect on the audience than you describe.

[_____V_____]

Very interesting discussion.

5-3, Pulp Fiction leads over Frankenstein.

[ManchestrMorgue]

Frankenstein .

[Kane_Hodder]

Pulp Fiction.

[neverending]

To clarify my point- I'm not arguing that Frankenstein is a great adaptation of the book- of course it is not. But I AM arguing it's a GREAT movie, an iconic horror film which stands as a landmark in film history which had a great influence on the film industry. The sequel was better, but Frankenstein paved the way.

In the same way One Flew Over the Cukoo's Nest is an AWFUL, AWFUL adaptation of the book. It dumbs down the story, radically changes the focus and lacks both the subtelety and impact of the novel. Kesey hated it so much at the time he demanded his name not be used in any way in conjunction with the film. Yet it's a great movie that stands on its own and deserves its place in film history.