Revelations
 

This miniseries has gotten me thinking about a lot of things.

I, for one, am an Athiest. Im the kind that pisses off everyone because i refuse to believe without some proof. If God shows up and shows me something irrefutable (like a license :D), i'll believe.

here are my questions though:

If events began to happen as detailed in the book of Revelations, would atheists become believers? I mean, if you refused to believe in the face of undeniable proof, then you would basically contradict what you originally believed. Granted, it would take a LOT to prove it, but if it reached that point where it was obviuos that someone had their shit together when they wrote it, would you believe?

Okay, i forgot my second question, but i will be back when i think of it.

Re: Revelations
 

Yes with enough PROOF anynone could believe if they were athiests

Life is so much more intersting with people like you around :D


I always loved the poster Mulder had in his office in the X-Files, the one that said "I want to believe". I really do. Life is so much cooler with Krakens and dragons, alien abduction, hollow earth, the bermudfa triangle....

Without those kind of completely unexplainable, unprovable, but just ever so slightly not-completely-deniable things in life, the earth would be terminally boring.


I honestly think that is why some sci-fi shows fail. if you m,ake the fantastic too commonplace, then it is no fun.

Oh, and no Elvis isnt alive. He died shortly after he and JFK killed a mummy.

In my opinion: I don't know whether or not god exists. Science makes a lot of sense, but scientists have no problem pulling "logical" theories out of their asses when they can't explain something.

However, if god existed, he would not want us to know. Irrefutable proof of god would devalue life on earth. There a story in the bible about people trying to build a tower to see god, and god made them unable to understand each other by making them speak in different languages. (I forget the details, may or may not have been a tower...)

I can't make sense of it, and don't waste time trying to. I think it's impossible to know.

I believe if the prophecies came true, a lot of athiests would find something else to rebel against. I'd imagine the few hardcore athiests, would cast them aside as coincidence.

tower of bable


(thus the bablefish from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)


and probably the expression : to babble ..

there is always the age old excuse... coincidence, if you lack faith I doubt it can be scared into you, who wants to get faith through fear?
personally, I was raised a certain way and I beleave a certain way

As a preacher I should be advising y'all on this one.

But......well.......I cant be arsed.

I'm goin home to watch fighting on tv.

Latas

yeah, well Im a reverend

http://www.universalministries.com/

I'm an atheist.

I speak Nietzsche and Tool ideals. Most of what I say on religion's regurgitated from them, but I think that common sense will show you that god is imaginary. I'm tired of arguing with people. If you want an atheist stand point, read Nietzsche's philosophies and Tool's lyrics.

"Jesus won't you fucking whistle something but the past and done?" - Tool, Sober.

And, if god did exist, I would not worship him.

Religion's a way of trying to prove that human life is worth something. Human life is worthless. Get over it.

Nietzsche, like everyone else knows nothing of anything beyond life. Focusing on life known to us before anything beyond is a good idea, but I still think the "God is dead" mentality is nothing more than rebellion against the church. Most athiests I know are complete fucking tools.

I'm not a big fan of Nihilist views, because even if what they say is 100% right, it would be better for society to believe otherwise. Hitler was a fan of Nietzsche's writings as some passages seemed to justify Hitler's cause.

Human life is worthless on what scale?

Hitler was a fan of Nietzsche?!?

Dude, I LOVE WWII.

...Yeah, human life is worthless. Do you think you help anything by having a kid? Life is unnecessary. That's why there are religions in the first place, so that you feel as if what you do makes a difference. It doesn't.

I think that, without religion, the world would be a better place. And I believe that science could disprove a lot of things if they wanted to. I believe that we are made to be docile. It's all the government, I swear to god.

I listed Nietzsche because I do not want to argue. God isn't dead, by any means. He exists for some people, and not for others. For me, it's imaginary.

Hey, we've managed to put a nice hole in the o-zone. :cool:

Seriously, we don't know any of this. How people can talk like they do on either side is totally beyond me. On religious emphasis on importance of life, I think people have the understandable need to hold on to a hope that this is not the end.

Quote:

I think that, without religion, the world would be a better place. And I believe that science could disprove a lot of things if they wanted to. I believe that we are made to be docile. It's all the government, I swear to god.

Without extremists the world would be a better place. We fucked up religion, but I guess you are half right. I think you have too much faith in our scientists though, how long have they been trying to cure aids? How much money has gone into research? What do we have to show for it? notta.

Quote:

I listed Nietzsche because I do not want to argue. God isn't dead, by any means. He exists for some people, and not for others. For me, it's imaginary.

God either exists or he/she/it doesn't.

Of course we don't know any of this. That's why we argue.

Without religion altogether, the world would be a better place. You can't blame your life on an imaginary person, turning your wrongs into theirs as well, you see what I mean? If a woman drowns her kids, who didn't stop it? God. Think of the woman's viewpoint. We're all innocent. We all have our excuses. Maybe the devil had momentary possession of her, but it's never exactly her fault.

...and natural disasters are good for the world. I do think they have a cure. They're waiting for our numbers to thin out a bit. If all the aids-suffering poverty-ridden countries of the world die out, the US doesn't have to waste money on helping them out.

God doesn't exist. Ask someone else you get a different answer. It's believe and it's faith. There isn't anything as simple as it either does or it doesn't.

yeah,.. world war two rocked.. :rolleyes:

I totally agree about the not breeding thing but faith comes on an individual basis. What dies is born again and what is born will die, that was the meaning and metiphor behind jesus. God is an ideal, but we are not alone.

oh shi

thats silly. There is no cure, biological warfare is more profitable than cures. And the woman is resposable, its called free will and we all have it. and yes Natural disasters rock.

I was raised christian.

The thing that put a major crack in my faith is that ANYONE goes to hell.

What is that? Is that some sort of revenge for the believers against the nonbelievers? What about children? Would god create a child, this all-knowing and powerful being, knowing it will go to hell one day?

Eh. God makes me sick.

Think about it.

If you have a cure, you can't charge them for it. They're poor. You basically have an obligation to distribute it, the world already hates us. Save it for awhile. Educate our people, and maybe only the stupid of us will die out.

Yes.

...

god never said you were going to hell, the people that raised you did. Maybe you should hate them, they did breed you after all...

No, it's not about me. It's about children. I have a thing for kids.

"Anyone who harms a child in any way should be punished or destroyed." -Marilyn Manson.

yup

what makes you think a child would go to hell?

Why? Human life is worthless remember? Why not kill all the kids without reason. I mean there is no reason or worth to their existence right?

I dunno much about biological warfare. I'll look into it.

At least I came up with an idea on my own. More than a lot of people are willing to do.

I really don't know much about our scientists, either, but I definitely have more faith in science than god.

So do you want a cookie for creativity? Doesn't make your idea any more valid.

I thought it was tool and marilyn manson who gave you your ideas?

People are born to go to hell. Without a hell there is no heaven. Without a punishment there is no reward. I'm a child, but by all other means, I'm a legal adult. I could fully sentance myself to hell, if I didn't escape it by not believing in it.

Yeah, I contridict myself a lot.

I think adult life is worthless, the docile lives that are led to no point. Children have potential. And innocence. They never asked to be, they have no idea what their parents have gotten them into.

I don't know, though. Potential for what? To change the world? Nothing's going to change the world...



...

I think that's why we shouldn't argue. If we can't know if either of uis is right, it's pointless. Nothing solid can really be used for or against god.

Goddamnit, yes, I deserve a fucking cookie.

Yes, I was waiting for this.

Regurgitated ideas. Religion's been disputed for a long, looong time now, I won't come up with any new arguments for or against it, and it seems that everything I DO come up with has already been thought up by somebody else.

So it's a lost cause. I didn't get my ideas from tool and manson, but they are very similar to mine. Read theirs. They probably make more since than anything I could argue.

thats a weird veiw, and Im suppose to be the weird one around here. To think that peole were born to go to hell is the most ridiculas thing Ive read here yet. (and that's a bold statement in its self) oh and anything could change the world, just look at how all those movie stars got bush into office. He's been changing the face of the planet ever since

Yeah... but... we'll argue anyway... both of us thinks we're right.

I'm a lot more close-minded than I'd like to be, or even realize half the time. I'd like to see what others think.

I think WWII is a very solid argument against god.

I'll second

thats bold. You think because god doesn't intervene every time theres a little genocide that there is no god, or that if there was it doesn't matter we are all going to hell reguardless? Ever see that future rama where bender becomes a planet/god and he trys to help in their war but ends up killing them anyhow?


just a little pop refferance so you'll understand ;)

Their parents never asked to be either... (and so on and so on...) I say we just kill em all since children are only being led up to worthlessness. :cool:

Huh?

Bush has nothing to do with my world, at all, really. There's too many checks and balances for him to have any real power. He's homophobic-ness just gives me a reason to be angry, that's about it...

...nothing's going to change the world, because the world is made of people. Nothing changes human nature. We're always going to be the same.

People are born to go to hell.

If there's a family made up of cult members that has a kid, that kid is already condemned, is it not? It'll grow up with the same values and ideas and believes. Don't dare throw free will into that. You are your parents. You are their product.

Without people to make up hell, there is no heaven. And if god knows all, he knows who's going to hell before they're even conceived. And he allows it to be.

Poo on you.

Yes.

If I was god, I'd abort everything.

Thought they wanted that horseface Kelly..:confused:

Yes, I do.

A little genocide...

Six million killed over religion, and nothing there to save them. Don't you see that?

But god did send his own son to die. Maybe god rewards a painful life. Maybe seeing his own creatures suffering gets him off.

Fuck, I want that on a t-shirt.