I suppose his motive is of little consequence as he's clearly nuttier than a fruitcake.

People are sick!:mad:http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...ock-sales.html

Gun sales surged nationwide the next day. It's because paranoid fools expected some sort of immediate moratorium on sales. I wouldn't say they're sick, just stupid.

I'm not sure that was the sole reason that particular gun started selling like hotcakes. I think a lot of people thought it would be "cool" to own the same gun the psycho had.

Ive never seen the point in gun ownership, a gun serves no purpose what so ever.

Hunting? Why do people feel the need to go out into the wilderness and shoot animals anyway, just leave them be. And the need to have armour piercing rounds, why? In response to guns have deer evolved kevlar skin?

Protection? From what if not other people with guns?

Recreation? Go down the firing range to shoot the shit out of targets? Seems like a waste of time to me but why not use pellet guns or some other none lethal object?


The whole guns dont kill people, people kill people thing is true, but the ease at which guns are available makes it significantly easier for shit like this to happen. The people in power need to step up with the bollocks to make gun ownership illegal.

How about having something to protect yourself and your family if things do get out of control. Disarming the people would be a bad choice my friend, black market guns would still be easy to get for the criminals but citizens would have the power to legally obtain firearms revoked? Yikes...

It probably comes as no surprise that I disagree with you. I hate guns, and think we would be better off without them. The 'only the criminals will have guns' argument doesn't hold water when you study other countries that have banned guns.

It also doesn't help that this country is a violent one. Comparing the instances of death by firearms in the UK, Canada, and the U.S.A.:

Canada (firearms are legal) - 144
UK (firearms are illegal) - 14
USA - 9,369

Yeah, lets take away the freedom of speech, assembly, press and petition while we're at it. Matter of fact, who needs any of the Bill of Rights? I don't see any reason soldiers shouldn't be able to barge in and take over my home, the cops shouldn't be able to search and seize my property without a warrant, the legal system requires a trial by jury or cruel and unusual punishment is illegal anyway. /sarcasm

Sorry Scouse, not to sound like a dick, but right to bear arms is guaranteed by our 2nd amendment. Not only is it right there in the Bill of Rights, it's pretty close to the top of the list (2nd) which means our founding fathers thought it was pretty darn important.

There are several reasons beyond it being a guaranteed freedom, that banning guns would be a horrible idea. First and foremost is that there are already millions of them in circulation, some registered, some not. Trying to collect them all would not only be a logistical nightmare, it'd be impossible. With that in mind, why shouldn't I be able to go out and buy a gun to hunt or protect my home and family? Idiots like this asshole already have them, why can't responsible non-felons like me have one as well to shoot this fucker with if he ever came busting in to my home and threatened my family with his? As for hunting, I personally dont, not because of any moral objection, just because sitting around all day waiting for something to happen strikes me as a boring thing to do (just like fishing.) but some people love it. Why shouldn't they be able to? Not sure where you live, but without hunting, Minnesota and Wisconsin would be overrun with deer to the point that people would be hitting them in their cars all the time. Up in the northern midwest, hunting is seen as a form of animal population control.

As Despare said, even if guns were banned, there would still be a black market for them. Drugs are illegal, but still pretty easy to get. Prostitution is illegal, but a short drive to any major city will prove that hookers are still plentiful. Booze were illegal, but we all know that didn't stop anyone from drinking... Speakeasys, bootleggers and moonshine boomed. Outlawing stuff that creates problems is seldom the solution.

'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.'

We have a proper military now; this no longer applies. Unless you're planning on overthrowing the government.

Wow, that sounds so facist. Who are you to say it no longer applies? If the government gets out of line and no one has guns, there's nothing to keep them in check.

"the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." There's no asterik there stating that it doesn't apply if the government has a military.

That's exactly the sort of scary talk that puts the rest of the world on edge about us Americans.

This country was founded via a violent revolution. It's what makes us American.

In the UK we have freedom of speech, assembly, press & petition and the complete lack of guns. No-one is bothered by this.

However, if police came into your home without a warrant your first thought would be to shoot them? I know this probably isnt true ;) but it could be interpreted that way.

Surely that was when us Brits were just kicked out and the new country needed all its citizens to be ready in case we tried again. Im fairly confident this wont be happening soon....

This would be nightmare true, there would have to be a bastard long amnesty in order for people to hand over their guns (they've had similar amnestys here in the UK with great success). Im not suggesting this is something that could be done in a short period of time but over five years, ten years? Why not?


You dont, you clearly feel strongly about this which is something I just dont get. The world will keep turning either way.

If someone were to start taking away the rights you do have though, you may have an issue with it. (At least, I hope you would.) In the US we have the right to bear arms and if someone threatens to take away that right, I have a huge problem with that.

Now that being said, I'm not opposed to rules and regulations pertaining to gun ownership. We have some of those in place. (Felons can not own guns, certain guns are not legal, etc...) There's a big difference between a rancher with a rifle or tax-paying stand-up citizen owning a glock (the most affordable and user friendly handgun, which is probably why they were such a hot item when idiots feared an immediate moratorium on gun sales.) to keep in their home for protection and some 17 year old gangbanger in Detroit with an Uzi. Huge difference.

This is actually a pretty loaded question. The police can't come in my home without a warrant. If they did, they'd be violating my civil rights. Would I shoot them? In general, no. But if it's a crooked cop breaking in to my home to rape my wife or hurt my kid, you'd better believe it.

There is no disclaimer attached to it. We have the right to keep and bear arms. Simple as that. Doesn't matter if the government has a military or the Brits don't plan on attacking us. It is one of the 10 basic freedoms this country was founded on.

Moving past the fact that ownership is in our BIll of Rights, because the only people that would actually turn in their weapons would be the law abiding citizens that aren't the problem in the first place. Most gun owning thugs and gangsters obtained theirs illegally anyway, why would they go hand them over to the cops when there's no record of them having one to begin with? All that would do is disarm the good people who would only shoot another person if they or their family was in legit danger.


Good, glad I'm not coming off like a total asshole. I just strongly disagree with government revoking any of the rights set forth by our founding fathers and when someone suggests it as a good option, I feel like it's only fair to offer a rebuttal.

If anything, most of Europe fight harder for their rights and privileges.This is what happened in Britain when they tried to raise tuition fees:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvOJn2LUPy4

Uhhhh ok, but you're just looking at guns.

CRIME PER CAPITA

# 1 Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people
# 2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people
# 3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people
# 4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people
# 5 Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people
# 6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people
# 7 Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people
# 8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people
# 9 Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people
# 10 South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people
# 11 Germany: 75.9996 per 1,000 people
# 12 Canada: 75.4921 per 1,000 people


WHAT!? More crime in the UK!? Heavens to betsy...

Of course I was looking at guns; that's what we were discussing.

Murder rate by firearms per capita:

USA - 0.0279271 per 1,000 people (#8)
Canada - 0.00502972 per 1,000 people (#20)
UK - 0.00102579 per 1,000 people (#32)

The Brits do seem to be pretty violent, so I hate to think what their murder rate would be if you armed them. The Canadians, however, seem to be considerably less violent. Gun ownership is legal and very common, and yet their murder by firearms rate is significantly lower. That's what I meant about our country being a violent one.

Right but you're looking at countries who don't even allow them, that's like saying most cooking accidents occur in the kitchen.

Alright, if you just want to talk about guns how many gun crimes in the USA are committed with a legal firearm? I know the FBI listed in a report that 98% of crimes against officers involved an illegal gun. Not only that but 'legal' guns are used 2.5 million times a year to properly and lawfully protect citizens.
Go through the FBI's crime statistics and guess what, almost all gun crime in the USA is committed with an illegally obtained or possessed firearm.

Look at the gun ownership in Switzerland, they have a large amount of guns and VERY little crime. The answer is teaching responsible gun ownership NOT simply taking them away.

Yes, I pointed out Canada which has plenty of firearms, but they don't seem as prone to blowing each other away as we are. Much like Britain, we're quite aggressive, and the ready availability of guns exacerbates the situation.

As for teaching responsible gun ownership, it clearly isn't working in this country. There are approximately 1,500 deaths by accidents involving firearms per year. A recent example:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27399337/ns/us_news-life/

You can't just take something away from all of the people because there are so many idiots out there. The one thing I think needs to be cracked down on is gun sales... gun shows, pawn shops, and the like are just terrible and so many illegal firearms are purchased there. If we regulated the sale of firearms properly and trained the people using them there would be no issue. Simply disarming the citizens though, it's not the answer, and trust me... shit would hit the fan if it was tried.

Well I don't think that day will ever come. I think this thread alone has illustrated how strongly people feel about their right to bear arms, and I don't see that ever changing.

I agree (sorry), there are plenty of things that can be done besides banning guns to help improve the situation, but it does seem like the NRA piss and moan every single time someone suggests implementing changes, and they normally get their way.

Well, the NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington which means they have a lot of control over what happens with our laws.

See there? Once again lobbyists are a HUGE part of the problem.

And just like that, this entire thread has come full circle. :)

When Australia issued tough arse gun laws. Gun crime has risen.


What if the government looks to over throw the people

If you take out Americans right to bear arms. Then you run the risk of setting a precedent. If you change once. It no longer becomes a big deal to make changes again. Europe/ britain. Are both a mess. They have no freedoms. They would be the last people i would take advice from when it comes to what makes a better country

Hell yeah, Britain is the new Nazi Germany!


I tried to buy some fish and chips and I got fish and french fries. I was all, what the fuck! Where are my Lays!

Guess that's what you get when the Queen is the law.....

If the government decides to overthrow the people, your gun collection isn't going to save you.

Out of curiosity, Wufong, where are you from?

We're a mess? Wish someone had told me.


The biggest problem I have in the UK is the ridiculous price of fuel, Im not certain what freedoms you have that I dont? Its not like we're North Korea.

You would be surprised at how many people in the military don't feel that way. Honestly...

Exactly. The military is made up of civilians like you and I. If the government ever got out of control to the point that the people decided to rise up against them, it's a safe bet that a healthy portion of the military would be on the people's side, not the governments.

We're a long way from that, but threatening to take away people's guns would be a pretty big step in the wrong direction.

One thing Ive learned from this thread is that people like bwind, despare & wufongtan see their right to own a gun on a par with owning a car (right?), a basic everyday thing.

I, naively it would appear, did not realize how commonplace or everyday a thing such as gun ownership is in the US and the fact that you have equated it with having the freedom of speech is stronger than I would've thought.

To put it my perspective, in my nearly 34 years Ive never even held a gun, let alone fired one. The only times Ive ever seen a gun is in the hands of the armed forces (during parades and open days etc) and armed police, primarily at airports (remember the bulk of UK police are not armed). Whilst it is possible for me to acquire one legally in the UK, it is both heavily regulated and licenced, I wouldn't have the first idea how to go about it.

Whilst the importance of the right to own one has been expressed vociferously, I still dont get why anyone would actually want to own one. But thats just me.

My friend, do you even know if we all own guns? Does the constitution say anything about owning a means of transportation? Despite how outdated some may tell you it is, or feel it is, our constitutional rights should be defended. Owning a car is so much different (although you still need a test and license to drive one, you can't just hop in one and go).