And your next Top 100 compilation is...

[_____V_____]

We have pretty much covered all known bases of the horror genre, except for a few. Going through the Compilations when I was doing the image-link updation (for almost all of them), I was struck with 2 separate compilation ideas.

Top 100 Horror Movie Soundtracks

and

Top 100 Non-Horror Films


For the Movie Soundtracks, I doubt if we will have 100 OST albums defining quality, depth and popularity equally in the genre. So it would be better to go with a top 100 list of individual/single soundtracks than entire OST albums. What say?

For the Non-Horrors, all of us have proved time and again that we love all our films (with a particular fondness of horror films, but of course). Yet, as a movie-based website forum (majorly), not having a top 100 non-horror film list is criminal.
For the annals of cinema history is dotted with some superb examples of film making in every other genre - action, fantasy, drama, war, western, adventure, sci-fi, mystery noir, etc. Even musicals have left their mark in cinema history (who can forget that wonderful Singing In The Rain or Mary Poppins?) Don't you think it's high time that we sat down with our collective tastes and chiseled out 100 of the absolute best in cinema as a whole?


So HDC, which shall it be?

Or shall we pursue both?

[Despare]

I'm down for either but I prefer music, I think it would be harder for me to try and peg down even my favorite 100 non-horrors let alone rank them. I'd try like hell though...

[_____V_____]

I'm down for either but I prefer music, I think it would be harder for me to try and peg down even my favorite 100 non-horrors let alone rank them. I'd try like hell though...

For that there's a simple solution - break up the non-horror expanse into 10 defining genres, and pick off Top 10 for each of them - and voila, we have our 100.

I am thinking:

Action/Crime/Thriller
Adventure/Fantasy
Drama/Family/Sport
Film-Noir/Mystery
Comedy
Musical
Romance
Sci-Fi
Western
War/History/Biography

Animated films are dotted in every other genre so shouldn't be hard to spot the best ones out of the lot. For example, Wall-E would definitely be in my Sci-Fi Top 10.

Midnight here and bedtime for me. Be back in about 8-9 hours.

[hammerfan]

I like the non-horror top 100.

[totem]

You could easily spread the genres out into 20 categories and include hybrids like Romantic Comedies as well as subgroups like Noir & Psychological Thrillers into their own grouping. Then just do a top 5 for each.

For example, I think it would be odd to see When Harry Met Sally in the same top 10 as The Notebook. Though both are Romance, neither is a similar experience.

It's just a thought. ::embarrassment::

[Straker]

Both sound like they would be a blast. ::cool::

[Angra]

Horror Boobies Top 100.

That's a winner.

[Sculpt]

We have pretty much covered all known bases of the horror genre, except for a few. Going through the Compilations when I was doing the image-link updation (for almost all of them), I was struck with 2 separate compilation ideas.

Top 100 Horror Movie Soundtracks

and

Top 100 Non-Horror Films

For the Movie Soundtracks, I doubt if we will have 100 OST albums defining quality, depth and popularity equally in the genre. So it would be better to go with a top 100 list of individual/single soundtracks than entire OST albums. What say?

For the Non-Horrors, all of us have proved time and again that we love all our films (with a particular fondness of horror films, but of course). Yet, as a movie-based website forum (majorly), not having a top 100 non-horror film list is criminal.
For the annals of cinema history is dotted with some superb examples of film making in every other genre - action, fantasy, drama, war, western, adventure, sci-fi, mystery noir, etc. Even musicals have left their mark in cinema history (who can forget that wonderful Singing In The Rain or Mary Poppins?) Don't you think it's high time that we sat down with our collective tastes and chiseled out 100 of the absolute best in cinema as a whole?

So HDC, which shall it be?

Or shall we pursue both?
Love the idea, V! As is sometimes the case ::wink::... I want to make sure I (and everyone else) understand what you're talking about. You wrote, "For the Movie Soundtracks, I doubt if we will have 100 OST albums defining quality, depth and popularity equally in the genre. So it would be better to go with a top 100 list of individual/single soundtracks than entire OST albums."

Defining/Requirements for "single track":
(For others reading this, "OST" is Original Sound Track.) When you say, "better to go with a top 100 list of individual/single soundtracks than entire OST albums", you mean single tracks that appear on a Movie Soundtrack Album, right? And so, three examples of this would be:


1. Movie Theme Song: "Original Halloween Theme (http://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/media/sample.m3u/ref=dm_ws_sp_tlw_smpl_nojs_trk1?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B0043XV18K&catalogItemType=track&qid=1398477636&sr=1-1)" from Halloween
2. Song "Sung" in Film: "Sacred Springs (http://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/media/sample.m3u/ref=dm_ws_sp_tlw_smpl_nojs_trk1?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B000QO2SJG&catalogItemType=track)" from Mothra vs. Godzilla
3. Film Score/Background Music/Incidental Music: "The Murder (http://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/media/sample.m3u/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk17_smpl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00FU4YHI2&DownloadLocation=CD&catalogItemType=track)" from Psycho
4. (wouldn't recommend) Commercial Song on Soundtrack, a Song Clip Heard in Film: "Partytime (http://www.amazon.com/gp/dmusic/media/sample.m3u/ref=dm_ws_tlw_smpl_nojs_trk3?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B001RZL42K&catalogItemType=track&qid=1398475493&sr=1-1)" from Return of the Living Dead


Which types should we include?

I would suggest only the first three types be included because, a commercial song from a soundtrack (often a track from a regular commercial music album, as in the case of "Partytime"), is a rather separate entity from the film, sometimes only plays a couple seconds in the film, and sometimes is not heard in the film at all. I think any piece of music from a film really needs to be specifically bound to it.


Compilations?: Horror Film or Non-Horror Film or All Film:
I think the amount of single tracks for a Horror Film music compilation is likely more massive than you might imagine (the 3 examples above). I would recommend restricting to just Horror films. After that's completed, a Non-Horror could be attempted, and would be vast amount of material (imagine multiple single tracks for every film).

[newb]

I like the non-horror top 100.

yeah.....me like too

[newb]

Horror Boobies Top 100.

That's a winner.

yeah...me like to

[_____V_____]

You could easily spread the genres out into 20 categories and include hybrids like Romantic Comedies as well as subgroups like Noir & Psychological Thrillers into their own grouping. Then just do a top 5 for each.

For example, I think it would be odd to see When Harry Met Sally in the same top 10 as The Notebook. Though both are Romance, neither is a similar experience.

It's just a thought. ::embarrassment::

Would make things more confusing and complicated. Keeping stuff simple would be the way to go.

IMDB serves as the base of all compilations. If both movies are listed under Romance, they go under Romance.

Horror Boobies Top 100.

That's a winner.

Rank #1 would go to the hairy, man-boobs of HDC's resident Viking. ::big grin::

When you say, "better to go with a top 100 list of individual/single soundtracks than entire OST albums", you mean single tracks that appear on a Movie Soundtrack Album, right?

I would suggest only the first three types be included because, a commercial song from a soundtrack (often a track from a regular commercial music album, as in the case of "Partytime"), is a rather separate entity from the film, sometimes only plays a couple seconds in the film, and sometimes is not heard in the film at all. I think any piece of music from a film really needs to be specifically bound to it.

Yes.

Compilations?: Horror Film or Non-Horror Film or All Film:
I think the amount of single tracks for a Horror Film music compilation is likely more massive than you might imagine (the 3 examples above). I would recommend restricting to just Horror films. After that's completed, a Non-Horror could be attempted, and would be vast amount of material (imagine multiple single tracks for every film).

Confusion again. The Non-Horror Top 100 would be of films, not soundtracks.

------------------------


Here's my take - it would be sort of criminal to do the Movie Soundtracks without Neverending's inputs. Agreed that all of us could do it on our own and finish with a damn fine job, but that grumpster has been a part of all compilations till now, and I would rather have him aboard for this one. As it stands, I have started work on this so it stays postponed till he returns. What say?

Majority are in favor of the Non-Horror Top 100 so let's start on that. We start work tomorrow but be warned - choosing can be a tough ask. Better tighten those waist belts!

[Angra]

Rank #1 would go to the hairy, man-boobs of HDC's resident Viking. ::big grin::




Well, if you like 'em flat chested and muscular then... sure, why the hell not. ::cool::

[The Villain]

I like the non horror top 100 best

[Elvis_Christ]

Both sound like great ideas to me.


I would suggest only the first three types be included because, a commercial song from a soundtrack (often a track from a regular commercial music album, as in the case of "Partytime"), is a rather separate entity from the film, sometimes only plays a couple seconds in the film, and sometimes is not heard in the film at all. I think any piece of music from a film really needs to be specifically bound to it.

Partytime is prominent in Return of the Living Dead along with the majority of the soundtrack. It wouldn't be the same film without it.

[_____V_____]

Been doing some thinking.

Instead of dividing the non-horror films into specific genres to ensure equal representation in the final 100, it would be better to go for 100 of the absolute best, regardless of genres.

Like totem said earlier, most films criss-cross through genres, so specific/pure genre films could be hard to find.
Also, if we sit down to choose (for example) 10 of the best musicals but could come up with only 7-8, and had to insert 2-3 average/mediocre ones at the cost of an excellent action or sci-fi film, it would be grave injustice.

So, how do we start?

Let's start by listing our top 20 non-horror films. Non-horror means the film should not be a horror film, nor a murder-mystery, surreal, etc. IMDB serves as an excellent base to distinguish this but even they have some tagged mistakes - Silence of the Lambs, Oldboy, Donnie Darko, heck even Predator is not marked under horror!

So, keeping out the obvious ones, send me your chosen Top 20 Non-horror films via PM, or you can email me at ravenavi@gmail.com as well.

Non-horror genres:

Action/Crime/Thriller,
War/History/Biography,
Drama/Family/Sport,
Fantasy/Adventure,
Mystery/Film-Noir,
Musical,
Comedy,
Romance,
Sci-Fi,
Western,
Animation,
Documentary/Short.

Please don't post your Top 20 in this thread.

[metternich1815]

Been doing some thinking.

Instead of dividing the non-horror films into specific genres to ensure equal representation in the final 100, it would be better to go for 100 of the absolute best, regardless of genres.

Like totem said earlier, most films criss-cross through genres, so specific/pure genre films could be hard to find.
Also, if we sit down to choose (for example) 10 of the best musicals but could come up with only 7-8, and had to insert 2-3 average/mediocre ones at the cost of an excellent action or sci-fi film, it would be grave injustice.

So, how do we start?

Let's start by listing our top 20 non-horror films. Non-horror means the film should not be a horror film, nor a murder-mystery, surreal, etc. IMDB serves as an excellent base to distinguish this but even they have some tagged mistakes - Silence of the Lambs, Oldboy, Donnie Darko, heck even Predator is not marked under horror!

So, keeping out the obvious ones, send me your chosen Top 20 Non-horror films via PM, or you can email me at ravenavi@gmail.com as well.

Non-horror genres:

Action/Crime/Thriller,
War/History/Biography,
Drama/Family/Sport,
Fantasy/Adventure,
Mystery/Film-Noir,
Musical,
Comedy,
Romance,
Sci-Fi,
Western,
Animation,
Documentary/Short.

Please don't post your Top 20 in this thread.

If a film is a science fiction, for example, that happens to be a horror movie, like Alien (1979), it cannot be included, correct? Also, Donnie Darko is grouped under horror as well?

[Sculpt]

Both sound like great ideas to me.

Partytime is prominent in Return of the Living Dead along with the majority of the soundtrack. It wouldn't be the same film without it.
I heartily agree, Elvis. Return the Living Dead was one of the best Horror films from the 80's, the punk songs gave the setting and scenes a "sense of punk", if you will - and that's why I chose it. I wanted an example most would know and appreciate -- and know upfront what we'd get with Type 4, and what we'd lose. For compilation/tournies, parameters have to be set, but one also makes adjustments/allowances that contribute to the goal. Maybe a punk song from RTLD would be appropriate as a standard, or an exception; part of those grey areas that come up.

[_____V_____]

If a film is a science fiction, for example, that happens to be a horror movie, like Alien (1979), it cannot be included, correct? Also, Donnie Darko is grouped under horror as well?

Yes, correct. Alien cannot be included, and neither can any horror film criss-crossing genres.

Yep, Donnie Darko is surreal fantasy horror.

[metternich1815]

Yes, correct. Alien cannot be included, and neither can any horror film criss-crossing genres.

Yep, Donnie Darko is surreal fantasy horror.

Makes sense.

Yeah, wasn't sure. I have seen it classified in different ways.

[Sculpt]

Yes, correct. Alien cannot be included, and neither can any horror film criss-crossing genres.

Yep, Donnie Darko is surreal fantasy horror.
Oh! Glad I read this first. If I had to bet a $100 on which you meant, I would have bet you meant keep out the obvious Horror films, but we're allowing films that are half or more one of another genre.

For instance, if I worked at a movie store, and had to choose only between Sci-fi or Horror for Alien, most decidedly and without hesitation, I'd put it in Sci-fi. And I'd put Young Frankenstein in Comedy.

May I make the suggestion that we not include any obvious core and "over half" Horror. And we include films we discern to be core or mostly another genre, that may contain Horror elements. Then you can simply exclude the handful of films that popup. You can leave them alone, or you can offer them up for a vote.

[metternich1815]

Just sent in my top 20. It was hard on two levels. First, not including any horror movies as there have been so many great ones that it felt weird not including them. Second, there were so many good films. I also learned that there are many classic films that I have yet to see and I always considered myself a big film person. I assume there will there be another thread for this compilation?

[_____V_____]

Anything remotely associated with Horror is to be kept out.

We shall use this thread for any/all discussions and debates on the same, as soon as I am done receiving the entries. Since it won't be as vast as the 100 Years of Horror compilation, discussions and debates will be considerably short in comparison to that one.

And I have received the first entry - from metternich1815. All good choices.

[metternich1815]

Anything remotely associated with Horror is to be kept out.

We shall use this thread for any/all discussions and debates on the same, as soon as I am done receiving the entries. Since it won't be as vast as the 100 Years of Horror compilation, discussions and debates will be considerably short in comparison to that one.

And I have received the first entry - from metternich1815. All good choices.

Okay, that's cool. I did not know if you were going to create a separate thread with the compilation, but that works too since this thread is already going and that is true.

[_____V_____]

3 entries in so far - added my Top 20 films, and received a fine list from The Villain.

I expect no less than 20 entries at least, folks. Get working on yours!

[Straker]

I'll get on this, but will take at least a few days, top 20 non-horror of all time will be tough.

[_____V_____]

Take your time, bud.

Received the 4th list of choices from Fearonsarms. Some mighty fine choices in there as well.

[Freak]

Are we doing just the non horror movies now? Cause it would be hard for me to come up with music selections.

[hammerfan]

Sorry, V, forgot all about this! I'll work on mine tonight.

[realdealblues]

Sounds fun...I'll work on my 20 today.

[_____V_____]

Are we doing just the non horror movies now? Cause it would be hard for me to come up with music selections.

Yes. Soundtracks compilation is postponed for now.

No bound for genres for your non-horror Top 20. Even if all 20 of them are action films, no problem.

Sorry, V, forgot all about this! I'll work on mine tonight.

Take your time.

Sounds fun...I'll work on my 20 today.

Looking forward to seeing your list.

---------------------

Received 2 more lists - 5th and 6th entry - from natedog722 and Sculpt.

[_____V_____]

The entry count has risen up to ELEVEN.

Thanks to realdealblues, newb, Despare, totem and hammerfan for submitting.

I expect at least NINE more. Get at it, people!

[roshiq]

Top 100 Horror Movie Soundtracks

and

Top 100 Non-Horror Films



Love both the idea. I'd like to take some time for my Top 20 but hopefully I can finish my listing within coming weekend.

Btw, just for future consideration I think a compilation of 100 Greatest Horror movie settings also be a cool idea.

[_____V_____]

The count has risen to TWELVE now - with a delectable list of 20 films sent in by Straker.

More, people! Feed me more!

[_____V_____]

Count has risen to THIRTEEN now - thanks to roshiq for submitting his 20.

[Elvis_Christ]

Does the list need to be ranked?

[Sculpt]

No, just your top 20 non-horror films in any order. PM to __V__.

[metternich1815]

No, just your top 20 non-horror film in any order. PM to __V__.

I did not know that. I sent my ranked list to V. I guess it does not really matter.

[Sculpt]

I did not know that. I sent my ranked list to V. I guess it does not really matter.
Remember when we were submitting films for each decade? Following V's normal MO, it's just 20 in any order.

[_____V_____]

Does the list need to be ranked?

Not necessarily. Just 20 will do.

[metternich1815]

Remember when we were submitting films for each decade? Following V's normal MO, it's just 20 in any order.

I sent a ranked list then too...lol.

[Sculpt]

I sent a ranked list then too...lol.
LOL! Well, I think everyone does, more or less, as a way of narrowing it down, especially the last 5 or so, ya got to start ranking them.

[_____V_____]

Still awaiting more entries.

Hope to get at least 20 in before I start the compilation work, which means minimum 7 more.

[_____V_____]

A request to all those still in the process of making their lists and/or interested in the project but haven't started on their lists yet - if you can submit them to me by the 20th of this month, we can finalise the 100 by month-end.

[_____V_____]

We are still at 13 entries so far. Those who have sent in their lists are:

metternich1815,
The Villain,
Fearonsarms,
natedog722,
Sculpt,
realdealblues,
newb,
Despare,
totem,
hammerfan,
Straker,
roshiq and
myself.

Still waiting on Elvis_Christ and a few other regulars to chip in with their top 20s before I begin compiling.

Let's hope we get to 20 entries by the 20th.

[_____V_____]

Last date for submission of entries is tomorrow.

I have started the compilation. We have 179 nominated films, and the ones with the most number of nominations (5) are:

Casablanca,
Raiders of the Lost Ark,
Schindler's List,
Star Wars, &
The Wizard of Oz.

[_____V_____]

Finalising all compilation entries by this weekend. Expect the Master List for debate by Saturday.

[Straker]

Last date for submission of entries is tomorrow.

I have started the compilation. We have 179 nominated films, and the ones with the most number of nominations (5) are:

Casablanca,
Raiders of the Lost Ark,
Schindler's List,
Star Wars, &
The Wizard of Oz.

I'm pretty sure none of those movies made my top 20. :danger:

[Sculpt]

Last date for submission of entries is tomorrow.

I have started the compilation. We have 179 nominated films, and the ones with the most number of nominations (5) are:

Casablanca,
Raiders of the Lost Ark,
Schindler's List,
Star Wars, &
The Wizard of Oz.

179 is a good number of films, both in many agreements and different films.

13 entries and 20 each equals a possible 260 different films. I'm not a probability expert, but if everyone had the same 10, and 10 different, that would equal 140 films. And we have 179 films, so that's about the equivalent of everyone having about 7 of the same films (which would total 176 films)

I'm pretty sure none of those movies made my top 20. :danger:
LOL! You sir, are a trailblazer. Or is it out-of-touch? ::big grin::
Me on the other hand, all of those 5 were in my Top 20 list.

[roshiq]

Casablanca,
Raiders of the Lost Ark,
Schindler's List,
Star Wars, &
The Wizard of Oz.

Only one was in my top 20.

[Straker]

LOL! You sir, are a trailblazer. Or is it out-of-touch? ::big grin::
Me on the other hand, all of those 5 were in my Top 20 list.

I'm probably just out of touch.... Its already bizarre to me to think that Raiders of the Lost Ark got more votes than say, The Godfather.

[_____V_____]

Two more entries have come in - from neverending & Giganticface. Thanks to both.

Takes the total tally to 15.

[The Villain]

Realizing now I sent in my list of my personal favorites, and not what I think are the best movies ever made. Should I do another list?

[Straker]

Realizing now I sent in my list of my personal favorites, and not what I think are the best movies ever made. Should I do another list?

I don't think it will matter too much, I'm guessing there will be enough room for debate and discussion for you to back or retract votes. I'm sure we've all missed plenty of movies that we might want to back when we see the compiled results. I know I will overlooked a few movies in my list that probably deserve a spot.

My list is pretty much made up of personal favourites anyway, just minus all the horror.

[Kandarian Demon]

I'd be happy to send you a list, although the "deadline" was a few days ago...anyway, I think this is a really good idea, I love movies in general ::cool::

[_____V_____]

Realizing now I sent in my list of my personal favorites, and not what I think are the best movies ever made. Should I do another list?

Up to you, my friend.

I'd be happy to send you a list, although the "deadline" was a few days ago...anyway, I think this is a really good idea, I love movies in general ::cool::

You can still send me your list. I am in the process of compiling so no problems.

[Kandarian Demon]

Ok, I will start working on my list now ::cool:: Just a quick question... would Close Encounters of the Third Kind be a crossover movie? I guess it's scary at first, but the aliens turn out to be friendly in the end, so I'm not sure...

[_____V_____]

Ok, I will start working on my list now ::cool:: Just a quick question... would Close Encounters of the Third Kind be a crossover movie? I guess it's scary at first, but the aliens turn out to be friendly in the end, so I'm not sure...

Sci-Fi/Drama.

[The Villain]

Up to you, my friend.

Well i just don't want to mess up the process. I remember there were some issues when we were doing the best of the decade list with people voting for personal favorites over the very best. If it won't affect anything, i'll just leave it

[Sculpt]

I'm probably just out of touch.... Its already bizarre to me to think that Raiders of the Lost Ark got more votes than say, The Godfather.

Well, for what it's worth, I enjoyed Raiders far more than The Godfather. It's just personal taste.

[_____V_____]

16th entry is in - sent by Kandarian Demon.

We should have our fleshed out Master List by tomorrow evening.

[Giganticface]

Well, for what it's worth, I enjoyed Raiders far more than The Godfather. It's just personal taste.

Me too, big time.

Unlike the 100 Years of Horror project, my submission this time is definitely a list of personal favorites, as opposed to greatest movies of all time. Heck, I think I even have Happy Gilmore in there.

The other project, to me at least, was an opportunity for horror fans to use their appreciation and expertise to put together a practically canonized list of the greatest horror movies of all time. For this project, however, at least the way I'm approaching it, our collective expertise doesn't necessarily make us the authority on the greatest movies of all time. That's not to say we couldn't do it, but my suspicion is it will be a bit weighted towards sci-fi, fantasy and action. Something tells me The Sound of Music won't be in the top 20. So I'm approaching this one much more lightly, and probably won't intensely debate any of the choices. (Hopefully that's not the opposite of what V's intent was!)

[Straker]

Well I hope if Happy Gilmore makes its into our top 100 films of all time you all allow me to throw a hissy fit in peace....

[Giganticface]

Well I hope if Happy Gilmore makes its into our top 100 films of all time you all allow me to throw a hissy fit in peace....

Heh, I bet you won't have to. :)

[Sculpt]

Realizing now I sent in my list of my personal favorites, and not what I think are the best movies ever made.
...
I remember there were some issues when we were doing the best of the decade list with people voting for personal favorites over the very best. If it won't affect anything, i'll just leave it
I think most of us have personal favorites that maybe favs largely for reasons other than an overall film excellence. But I think most all of the time everyone's favorites are also the very best films.
Me too, big time.

Unlike the 100 Years of Horror project, my submission this time is definitely a list of personal favorites, as opposed to greatest movies of all time. Heck, I think I even have Happy Gilmore in there.

The other project, to me at least, was an opportunity for horror fans to use their appreciation and expertise to put together a practically canonized list of the greatest horror movies of all time. For this project, however, at least the way I'm approaching it, our collective expertise doesn't necessarily make us the authority on the greatest movies of all time. That's not to say we couldn't do it, but my suspicion is it will be a bit weighted towards sci-fi, fantasy and action. Something tells me The Sound of Music won't be in the top 20. So I'm approaching this one much more lightly, and probably won't intensely debate any of the choices. (Hopefully that's not the opposite of what V's intent was!)
I think you're right, knowing this group, especially from the Top Horror Films from Each Decade selection process, we could tilt towards Sci-fi, Fantasy and Action, as compared to AFI, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. And knowing this group, with 15 critics electing the list, making it highly valid, current 2013, and well represented.

[neverending]

But I think most all of the time everyone's favorites are also the very best films.

I have to disagree. People like a lot of terrible movies, and will argue the hell out of why they are great.

[The Villain]

Well I hope if Happy Gilmore makes its into our top 100 films of all time you all allow me to throw a hissy fit in peace....

If Happy Gilmore gets in feel free to throw a very public hissy fit

I have to disagree. People like a lot of terrible movies, and will argue the hell out of why they are great.

yeah there's a big difference to a movie you enjoyed and an actual good movie. Someone could love a terrible movie for whatever reason but it doesn't make it good

[Fearonsarms]

yeah there's a big difference to a movie you enjoyed and an actual good movie. Someone could love a terrible movie for whatever reason but it doesn't make it good

I disagree. People have different views on what a good or terrible movie is. It depends on what you want from a movie. What one person considers the ingredients for a good movie, another person may consider those same ingredients make a terrible movie and vice versa. A person's reason for liking a movie is just as valid as another's reason for thinking it terrible

[Straker]

That is often where the debate is with these things.... Trying to convince someone that cheesy action flick they love, that evokes all those wonderful nostalgic feelings isn't top 100 film material is never going to be easy. In fact, its usually impossible.

[The Villain]

I disagree. People have different views on what a good or terrible movie is. It depends on what you want from a movie. What one person considers the ingredients for a good movie, another person may consider those same ingredients make a terrible movie and vice versa. A person's reason for liking a movie is just as valid as another's reason for thinking it terrible

All I'm saying is there's a difference between a movie you enjoyed and a great movie. A lot of the time it overlaps but there are plenty of movies that people like that are not great movies. They may be good or enjoyable but not all of them should be included in a list of best movies. There's different criteria for personal favorites and actual great movies

[Fearonsarms]

That is often where the debate is with these things.... Trying to convince someone that cheesy action flick they love, that evokes all those wonderful nostalgic feelings isn't top 100 film material is never going to be easy. In fact, its usually impossible.

Yeah if someone likes a cheesy action flick enough for them to argue for it's inclusion that makes an interesting debate. I'm looking forward to it.

All I'm saying is there's a difference between a movie you enjoyed and a great movie. A lot of the time it overlaps but there are plenty of movies that people like that are not great movies. They may be good or enjoyable but not all of them should be included in a list of best movies. There's different criteria for personal favorites and actual great movies

I'm just saying that one person's trash is another person's treasure. I don't see how there is different criteria for personal favourites and actual great movies-it's personal opinion either way. V said earlier that if people wanted to pick 20 action movies they could. I personally don't like them but if people wanted to they have the right to choose them if they believe they are the best movies. It's still personal opinion if you think they are the greatest or terrible. Same for any movie.

[neverending]

And this is why we can't have nice things...

[totem]

Personally, I don't see the need for a debate. The concept of "Top" is pretty open-ended all by itself.

If we simply elaborate the name of the list to say HDC's:

Top personal favorites, or
Top drive-in flicks, or
Top date night horrors and so on, we'd all be clearer on the goal without the notion of some definitive 'top' that all of us must agree to.

I mean I'm a fan of Sharknado, but I've flushed things down my toilet that were better made. So 'best' movie? no, but personal picks? you betcha. ::stick out tongue::

[_____V_____]

The whole objective of this compilation is to show the world out there that we, as passionate horror fans, can also give a definition to non-horror films as well.

All of them may not be the absolute best in their respective genres, and it may not be similar to many other top 100s out there which have THE absolute best films in their lot, but I hope there's enough quality in the final 100 to make the list stand out as one on its own.

The Godfather didn't make the cut in my top list as well. As great as it might be, it wasn't a complete entertainer in my view, IMO. I went for uniqueness/novelty of presentation over the rest - that's why a NeverEnding Story with it's rather special/unique premise and executed idea, and a Back To The Future Part II (not part I, mind you), made it into my top list.

Why Part II, you might ask? Because in my view, this film has the most unique storyline in all of cinema-dom. It's unique, it dares to be different, and it stands out from the rest. Good enough to tick all of my boxes. (besides being a huge teenage-year favorite)

[Kandarian Demon]

All I'm saying is there's a difference between a movie you enjoyed and a great movie.

In a way, I agree - BUT who gets to decide who is right and who isn't? I mean... most of us will feel that "I" am right when we judge a movie. Or maybe we feel that our opinions are more valid because we're older than the person that we're debating - or because we've watched a lot of movies, or know a lot about movie history.

But that's not nescesarily true. Just like so-called B movies are sometimes wonderful, and an award-winning "classic" might remind you of the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes".

But when that's said, there is definitely a LONG list of movies that I really enjoy, but wouldn't call great art... I KNOW (or do I?) that they're badly done, but I still enjoy them. I wouldn't nominate such a movie for a list like this.

[roshiq]

In my top 20 there are
1 from 20s,
1 from 40s,
5 from 50s (including 3 Asian movies!)
3 from 60s,
3 from 70s,
3 from 80s,
2 from 90s
&
2 from 00s.

Entertainment value wasn't only factor in my consideration, may be that's why TGF made into my Top 20. No Star Wars, no Casablanca and no Tarantino! ::smile::

[Giganticface]

I think what it boils down to is are we judging art or are we judging entertainment? If we're judging entertainment, then the fact that I've watched Raiders of the Lost Ark like 20 times means something.

Have any of you guys seen the series that originally aired on TCM, and now is on Netflix streaming, called The Story of Film? I was enthralled by the entire series and found it very educational and fun to watch. The guy's approach is definitely an eclectic, artistic point of view, while still capturing all the important milestones and movements over the history of film, including how the ideas made it into the mainstream. Throughout my watching experience, I was adding movies to my IMDb watchlist that I now felt I needed to see.

The truth is, however, I haven't seen most of those films, and even if I did, as great as they are, I might not vote for them in this list. For me at least, determining the "greatness" of a film is for someone else to decide -- probably even some on this forum... I know Straker, ferretchucker, neverending and others have proven to have a deep appreciation and knowledge of film as an art form. Me, I'll mostly just tell you why I liked or didn't like it (which, frankly is more than some folks do when they reply to someone's review with nothing more than "That movie was crap"). I'm not saying I'm incapable of insight, just that the insight is based on enjoyment rather than academics.

For horror lists, however, I feel it's our duty to do the job like a bunch of horror freaks should. :) The 100 Years of Horror list was our opportunity to capture the most appreciated and influential films in horror history, from the perspective of folks who appreciate them the most, and we did an awesome job of it. People will come to this site for the sole purpose of learning about that. They won't come here to learn about film in general. That doesn't mean we can't have fun building the list.

[neverending]

Can we not enjoy a film because of its artistry? The Godfather is a film that people here keep pointing out as a great film they don't enjoy. I enjoyed the hell out of that movie and have rewatched it many times. Scorcese is a true artist whose work astounds me. Of course I enjoy being challenged, educated and enlightened by art. I keep getting reminded time and again that many people don't care for that. They just want to see things explode.

[Kandarian Demon]

You could have the best cook in the world prepare a meal for you with all the ingredients that you hate the most, but your tastebuds still wouldn't like it. This wouldn't mean that you have "no idea what good food is", neither would it mean that the cook didn't do a perfect job. There's nothing wrong with the ingredients either, and the guy at the table next to you isn't wrong for enjoying the same meal.

The same can be said about movies, or any other type of art.

[Straker]

. Of course I enjoy being challenged, educated and enlightened by art.

This for me is the essence of what elevates a movie from 'something I have fun watching' to a great movie.

[neverending]

You could have the best cook in the world prepare a meal for you with all the ingredients that you hate the most, but your tastebuds still wouldn't like it. This wouldn't mean that you have "no idea what good food is", neither would it mean that the cook didn't do a perfect job. There's nothing wrong with the ingredients either, and the guy at the table next to you isn't wrong for enjoying the same meal.

The same can be said about movies, or any other type of art.


Sure, people can SAY anything. ::sad::

[Despare]

Of course I enjoy being challenged, educated and enlightened by art. I keep getting reminded time and again that many people don't care for that. They just want to see things explode.

Maybe others simply weren't as "challenged" by other flicks as you were, especially if you take into consideration when they saw a film and what they may have seen first. No need to be condescending. The whole concept of subjective taste seems to be foreign to you, as if there's a formula used to separate the greatness of one film from the next.

[Giganticface]

Can we not enjoy a film because of its artistry?

I didn't say you couldn't. In fact, I believe part of my point was that a few folks, including you, probably will determine your favorites by their quality as an art form.

I think I'm realizing that the biggest challenge for me is that 95% or more of the films I watch probably would not qualify for this list. The ones I enjoy the most do tend to be of the more challenging variety, not that I think that's a requirement to make it a good film: Martyrs, Requiem for a Dream, Donnie Darko, Lars von Trier films. I even considered leaving Trainspotting off the list because I didn't want to have to debate whether or not the hallucinatory horror and terrible situations would qualify it as "half horror." Point being, I don't get too excited about my capaciity for artistic appreciation being dumbed down to whether or not it had enough explosions. All I'm really saying is that outside the realm of horrificish films, half of my top 20 is going to just be films I've watched a bunch of times over my lifetime, and not all of these are terribly challenging or artistic.

[The Villain]

This is great, we haven't even started yet and look at all the debate and conversation. This is going to be incredible when we get into it. Really looking forward to all the inevitable arguing over someones favorite movie not deserving to be in the list and likewise. I love it when we have some good threads here and everyone gets involved.

[neverending]

Maybe others simply weren't as "challenged" by other flicks as you were, especially if you take into consideration when they saw a film and what they may have seen first. No need to be condescending. The whole concept of subjective taste seems to be foreign to you, as if there's a formula used to separate the greatness of one film from the next.


You know it's too late for me to change. ::smile::


Besides, with so many hereabouts proclaiming their abhorrence of film as art, somebody has to stand up for Artistic Standards amidst all this Artistic Relativism.

[_____V_____]

A film doesn't impress me if it's laden with explosions, for the record.

As far as artistry goes, 2001: A Space Odyssey can be put forth as an example of cinematic artistry at it's finest. Regular viewers often lament about it's slow pace and confusing visuals but for me, it's the finest example of cinematic creativity anyone has put forth till now. That doesn't mean I rank it above The Godfather - it's just in a different plane of cinematic existence for me.

I have met people who swear by Citizen Kane, Casablanca, Gone With The Wind, etc., but I am sorry folks, those films don't make the cut for me. I would rather have Rashomon, Vertigo, To Kill A Mockingbird, etc., at my disposal.

Each one of us is unique, and has his/her own separate tastes. I don't expect anyone else to love Mockingbird as much as I did (and still do), or Glengarry Glen Ross, or Platoon or even A Few Good Men. Those are my choices and I stand by them, and if you ask me reasons then I can give you 20 or more.

Others may hail The Remains of the Day as a true cinematic masterpiece, but the fact remains that I fell asleep 15-20 minutes into the film. Never popped it back in, since.

On the other hand, I love the heck out of films such as Stand by Me, Serendipity, A Night at the Roxbury, The Goonies, etc., but do I consider them my Top 20 material? Nope.

The Godfather by the way was made by Francis Ford Coppola. And in Coppola's case, I rank Apocalypse Now as his finest film till date, and yes, I rank it above The Godfather and it's sequels. Scorcese is the man behind Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Goodfellas, After Hours, Gangs of New York, Hugo, Shutter Island, etc.

[neverending]

I always get those two mixed up. ::stick out tongue::

I blame senility!

[Giganticface]

Those are great examples, V. I like your approach. The only thing I think is unfortunate (although I don’t necessarily disagree) is that films like Night at the Roxbury and The Goonies are automatically ruled out, purely due to their less-advanced nature. Admittedly, it would be a near-impossible challenge to debate that one of those is “better” than 2001: A Space Odyssey, but if in your mind Roxbury is the best in it’s class of slapstick comedies, then it ought to get some credit somehow.

Unfortunately, I think by not breaking our submissions up by genres, entire categories of film will be neglected, purely because the class of movie doesn’t compete at an artistic level. It’s the same reason a horror film has never won Best Picture, and a slapstick comedy has no chance of even being considered for nomination. The Academy and film schools alike have their own definitions of what should and shouldn't garner respect. Even Charlie Chaplin — lauded as one of the great pioneers — was never even nominated for Best Picture. I personally feel that modern slapstick classics like The Jerk or Caddyshack deserve mention on a top 100 non-horror list, but unfortunately they’re not likely to make anybody's top 20 “best film” lists, thus will be ruled out from the get-go.

Even if we did attempt to form this list based on the artistic quality of the films, “artistry” is a concept that will never be agreed upon. Critics are constantly torn between judging technical prowess vs. raw creativity -- two very different, and often competing, concepts, not just in film, but in all art forms. I don’t technically know much about film, other than what I read on the internet and watch in documentaries, and don’t have any experience or education in the field like some in this forum do. But as an analogy, I do have some education in music (6 credits shy of a music minor, I didn’t want to delay graduation to finish). That education -- which included music theory, history, recording techniques, sound synthesis, some random stuff like world music and the history of rock, and of course, actually learning how to play instruments -- gives me some ability to judge music performances and recordings at an academic level. If this were a music forum, I *could* do that, but I probably wouldn’t just because those aren’t the qualities in music as an art form that I hold dear. Instead, I’d rather talk about how Joy Division, who could barely play their instruments, deconstructed rock in a way that opened the door to a baser form of music. Or how the members of Tortoise, from their post-hardcore perspective, flipped jazz on its side, helping to create a brand new subgenre. Those artists, and many of the ones I love the most, were ripped by mainstream critics during their time, and even in retrospect, are unlikely to ever get a high-profile music award. Point being, even if we could separate ourselves from our personal favorites, everyone has their own means by which they judge a film’s quality, and those standards will never be agreed upon.

I think this process would be less debatable, and probably more accurate, if we called this list “HDC’s Top 100 Non-Horror Favorites.” Nobody can really argue with whether or not someone does or does not like a movie, but they certainly can pontificate over what, in their minds, constitutes artistic merit. Besides, if someone were to stumble upon this list, it might actually be interesting for them to discover non-horror films that horror fans like. Otherwise, it’s just another attempted rehash of the “best” movies of all time, and probably one that’s going to be weighted towards genres that horror fans are drawn to.

[Straker]

This is great, we haven't even started yet and look at all the debate and conversation. This is going to be incredible when we get into it. Really looking forward to all the inevitable arguing over someones favorite movie not deserving to be in the list and likewise. I love it when we have some good threads here and everyone gets involved.

Agreed, its always fun and good to have these type of debates, even if sometimes people end up sat on opposite sides of the fence now and then.

Each one of us is unique, and has his/her own separate tastes. I don't expect anyone else to love Mockingbird as much as I did (and still do), or Glengarry Glen Ross, or Platoon or even A Few Good Men. Those are my choices and I stand by them, and if you ask me reasons then I can give you 20 or more.


Its nice to see Glengarry Glenn Ross make the final cut of someone's list. I expected to be the only person who had that movie in their top 20 and was all geared up to get behind it in a bid to win a few extra votes, for what is, a beautiful character study with some phenomenal acting performances.

Most of the movies that made my list are drama/ character study as that's the type of movie I tend to enjoy. To be honest, I wouldn't consider my list particularly inclusive of all genres and styles or even that varied. There are a couple of flicks that I would back that most of you guys will probably consider 'arty', pretentious, cliché and boring, but I can live with that and will give them my full backing if I think I can sneak any of them into the final cut. But then again, I will just as happily be backing Spinal Tap.

I would still like to reserve the right to be a whiney little bitch if Happy Gilmore makes the cut though. :danger:

[Giganticface]

Spinal Tap is on my list. :)

I'd really love to see everyone's lists at some point. For me that's almost as much fun as debating the final overall list. The films a person loves says something about their personality, and it's cool that we have a diverse group around here.

I may have spent some credibility capital by revealing my Happy Gilmore vote to make a point (which I wouldn't actually back during debate), but I feel no shame about the rest of my list. Besides a few sci-fi/adventure classics, a spaghetti western, Spinal Tap and Gilmore, mine's mostly dramas too: an indie musical romance, a few indie dramas, a big budget Soderbergh drama, and a sci-fi drama. I actually stayed away from great films like 2001 A Space Odyssey and Taxi Driver because I thought they were a little too close to horror.

Should be a lot of fun no matter what.

[Kandarian Demon]

Spinal Tap is on my list. :)

I'd really love to see everyone's lists at some point. For me that's almost as much fun as debating the final overall list. The films a person loves says something about their personality, and it's cool that we have a diverse group around here.

I may have spent some credibility capital by revealing my Happy Gilmore vote to make a point (which I wouldn't actually back during debate), but I feel no shame about the rest of my list. Besides a few sci-fi/adventure classics, a spaghetti western, Spinal Tap and Gilmore, mine's mostly dramas too: an indie musical romance, a few indie dramas, a big budget Soderbergh drama, and a sci-fi drama. I actually stayed away from great films like 2001 A Space Odyssey and Taxi Driver because I thought they were a little too close to horror.

Should be a lot of fun no matter what.

I've often been told that my taste in movies other than horror is a bit surprising, knowing that I AM mostly a horror movie fanatic. But maybe it's only surprising to non-horror fans, who sometimes have very stereotypical expectations about what "we" are like, usually based on misconceptions about the horror genre itself.

I'm curious to find out what movies we're all into ::cool::

[totem]

I'm curious to find out what movies we're all into ::cool::

What I'm really into is never the movie, but my relationship to the movie. In the end, the impact it has on me - to the degree it can get me thinking and keep me thinking - is what determines the amount of love I have for any film of any genre.

Of course, I have my lists of movies I respect or admire for one reason or another & most of them are on the standard "top" lists you'll find on any given internet search. I honestly would never own most of these though.

They are great films & I do respect them but they have no real place in my heart - only my critical appraisal. And so my 'lists' would also most likely seem a bit 'surprising' as you say.

I generally keep those lists to myself since arguing what your heart loves usually goes nowhere fast. ::wink::

[Kandarian Demon]

What I'm really into is never the movie, but my relationship to the movie. In the end, the impact it has on me - to the degree it can get me thinking and keep me thinking - is what determines the amount of love I have for any film of any genre.

It's kind of the same for me, although it's not nescesarily because a movie makes me think - sometimes it's because of what it makes me feel. I think there's value in both.

I also have to admit that sometimes I love a movie simply because it's visually beautiful... I guess that's the artistic debate again. It doesn't always mean that the movie as a whole is any good, though.



Of course, I have my lists of movies I respect or admire for one reason or another & most of them are on the standard "top" lists you'll find on any given internet search. I honestly would never own most of these though.


I can relate to that completely. There are plenty of "great classics" that I definitely respect, and would never deny that they are extremely well done, but they didn't really move me -or make me think. And that brings me back to what I said earlier, about art - there IS such a thing as personal taste that just isn't "right" or "wrong".

I'm sure we can all find a famous painting by a famous painter that we would never hang on our own walls, even if we acknowledge that technically, it's perfect.

[totem]

It's kind of the same for me, although it's not nescesarily because a movie makes me think - sometimes it's because of what it makes me feel. I think there's value in both.

Sorry, by 'think' I simply meant 'evoking mental attention' which would include feelings and being artistically spellbound. I didn't mean to imply exclusive intellectual dissection. That's my bad & I do apologize for the confusion. It typically happens when I'm being over-economical on a post's word count. ::roll eyes:: We actually agree on your point 1,000%. ::cool::

Some movies evoke feelings that I'll sit & ponder long after they're over. Dwelling on the emotion, beauty, sadness, horror, etc also count - in my mind - as "thinking" about. It's the film keeping my mind focused on it after it ends & I love any movie that can exert that kind of influence over me at any level.

Those "top-list" films we referenced, though certainly memorable, don't tend to actively stimulate my mental faculties in this way.

For example: There's nothing intellectually commanding about The Ring [2002], but I love it because of how beautiful Naomi Watts is in it - both physically and emotionally. It's a sad & haunting gem for me mostly because of her lovely, melancholic presence in it. I'm sure Ebert would spit on me for saying so but... c'est la vie. ::smile::

As for the famous painter you were speaking of; the recently deceased H R Giger would count for me. I find his work awesome, but I'd never decorate my place with it. I'm sure there are Alien fans who would spit on me for saying so but... c'est la vie. ::smile::

[_____V_____]

The guys at Empire magazine asked their readers to send in their votes for the Top 301 Movies of All Time, and the results will be posted in their July 2014 issue.

Guess which film came out at #1?

Read - http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=41132

The Full 301, ranked - http://www.empireonline.com/301/301.asp

[roshiq]

The guys at Empire magazine asked their readers to send in their votes for the Top 301 Movies of All Time, and the results will be posted in their July 2014 issue.

Guess which film came out at #1?

Read - http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=41132

The Full 301, ranked - http://www.empireonline.com/301/301.asp

It's natural to get that movie (which I also love) @ no. 1 for the "EMPIRE" magazine::wink::

Bicycle Thieves @ #301 whereas films like Man of Steel, Scott Pilgrim Vs The World & Silver Linings Playbook respectively at # 286, 274 & 180.

There is a difference between the term "most favorite" & "greatest"...when someone or a group of people making a list based on the votes/choices from people with different background & tastes..then IMO...it should better be called as MOST FAVORITE, instead of GREATEST or BEST. Cause, as long as we have (& we always have) different point of views on matters (& as I said numerous times before that) none can actually able to produce an accurate listing of Greatest or Best for anything.

[Kandarian Demon]

I'm one of those heathens who don't really get Star Wars - well, I DO, because they're obviously great movies, but I don't get why they're THAT popular. I've watched them all, my favourite being... I *think* the second prequel, which I really loved, but to be honest I find the original a bit... boring in places ::embarrassment::

Maybe it's because I'm a Trekkie ::big grin::

[_____V_____]

Will post the updated Master List on Sunday.

[Fearonsarms]

This is great, we haven't even started yet and look at all the debate and conversation. This is going to be incredible when we get into it. Really looking forward to all the inevitable arguing over someones favorite movie not deserving to be in the list and likewise. I love it when we have some good threads here and everyone gets involved.

I agree-I may be wrong but I'm predicting a lot of movies with just one vote and the ones with more will be surprising. It will be fascinating how the list develops. Even if I don't agree with someone's choice I think it will still be interesting to hear their argument for it.

[Sculpt]

I like the Empire list of best films. Have some really good modern films that tend to be marginalized by AFI (such as Matrix, Fight Club, etc).

I have to disagree. People like a lot of terrible movies, and will argue the hell out of why they are great.
Yes, I can't disagree with that... many people certainly love some bad films. I guess in my experience exchanging fav flims with friends, MOST of their favs are the widely accepted 200 odd films you'd find on AFI's list. Maybe that's not your experience.

Can we not enjoy a film because of its artistry? The Godfather is a film that people here keep pointing out as a great film they don't enjoy. I enjoyed the hell out of that movie and have rewatched it many times. Scorcese is a true artist whose work astounds me. Of course I enjoy being challenged, educated and enlightened by art. I keep getting reminded time and again that many people don't care for that. They just want to see things explode.
I enjoyed The Godfather, and it was mainly for the educational stimulation - the cultures I'm not familiar with... like Sicilian, American-Italian-Sicilian, Roman Catholic and Mob family life. That was fascinating. I was also taken with the technical artistry - the filming technique of telling the story, building tension and contrast... such as the baptism plus whacking enemies scene.

I could say the same things for Raiders of the Lost Ark... the exotic locations and cultures, info on archaeology and Ark, political structures/processes... and of course the technical artistry of the film technique of telling the story, building tension and contrast.

They're different types of films, both done well. If Spielberg used the subtly in Raiders that Coppola used in Godfather, he would have failed in doing the Raiders' genre correctly.

To me, it's about knowing what style and story your doing, and doing that well. Not doing the wrong style, or trying to put every style in one film.

AFI tends to highly value the melodrama and film adaptations of literary and playwright classics, it's moderate on romance and comedy, and devalues the Sci-fi, Fantasy, Action and Horror. I don't feel the need to copy that predilection.

[Sculpt]

Mods, excuse my use of the new post, but it's a new subject to me. And I don't like making posts so big people don't want to read them.

Extreme Beauty of Age of Innocence 1993

One film of extreme visual artistry and beauty is Age of Innocence 1993. The interior design: the wood work, gold inlays, wall paper/paint, wall hangings, rugs, art work, dinner table place settings... oh man, they knocked me off my chair! The beauty was overwhelming. And I'm the farthest thing from an interior decorator there is. This amazing visual art is great, period. It helped the setting, but it didn't make the story or film great. I think it's an elegant film full of nuance, but not one of my best 20 for sure.

This, by the way was a Martin Scorsese film. It won Oscars for won the Academy Award for Best Costume Design, and nominated for Best Art Design. No doubt the Costumes were great, but that's somewhat over my head. I can't imagine a any film being better in Art Design. (Schindler's List won the Oscar for Best Art Director and Set Decoration... no way was it better than Age.)

[_____V_____]

Waiting on a few replacements from a couple of members before I post the compiled Master List.

The 12 films which find a place in the most number of lists right now are:-


Casablanca (1942) - 7 entries
Raiders Of The Lost Ark (1981) - 7 entries

Star Wars (1977) - 6 entries

Citizen Kane (1941) - 5 entries
Schindler's List (1993) - 5 entries
The Wizard Of Oz (1939) - 5 entries

2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) - 4 entries
Metropolis (1927) - 4 entries
Once Upon a Time in the West (1968) - 4 entries
The Godfather (1972) - 4 entries
The Matrix (1999) - 4 entries
The Shawshank Redemption (1994) - 4 entries

[sfear]

Can't believe three of mine made the list. Perhaps some residue of taste actually resides in my thunker. Looking forward to the Master List.

[Sculpt]

I'm one of those heathens who don't really get Star Wars - well, I DO, because they're obviously great movies, but I don't get why they're THAT popular. I've watched them all, my favourite being... I *think* the second prequel, which I really loved, but to be honest I find the original a bit... boring in places ::embarrassment::

Maybe it's because I'm a Trekkie ::big grin::
I think with Star Wars A New Hope, you might not "get it" because many of it's elements are made for the American culture circa late 60's and early 70's. Still there's so many elements that are timeless and multicultural.

I know you didn't say you didn't like A New Hope, but I'd always be shocked if I heard someone say they didn't like it. Not only is it fascinating, visually rich, but I think Mark Hamil's performance of Luke was Oscar worthy. He brought so much heart and sincerity. He was OK in Empire, and ghastly in Jedi. He was in a really bad accident at the start of Empire. I don't know if gave him some brain damage. Not kidding.

[neverending]

I pretty much just chose 20 films that popped into my head when I think of "great," without too much thought. If I had stopped to think about it the task would have been too daunting and I would have been bogged down for weeks with internal debate.

It's a terrible task when there are directors, like Kubrick, Scorsese, Coppola, Hitchcock, Robert Altman and Akira Kurosawa, whose entire bodies of work can be considered masterpieces or near, with few missteps. Now I'm regretting RAN wasn't on my list... Nor were any Woody Allen films; like him or hate him, he's one of the most influential filmmakers of the modern era.

I probably broke some rules here mentioning some films by name.

[metternich1815]

I'm one of those heathens who don't really get Star Wars - well, I DO, because they're obviously great movies, but I don't get why they're THAT popular. I've watched them all, my favourite being... I *think* the second prequel, which I really loved, but to be honest I find the original a bit... boring in places ::embarrassment::

Maybe it's because I'm a Trekkie ::big grin::

Personally, I am a big Star Wars fan with my favorite being A New Hope. Honestly though, I enjoy all of the Star Wars films including the prequel series.

In regards to Star Trek, despite my love for Star Wars, I am a far bigger fan of Star Trek than Star Wars. In my opinion, Star Trek is a more compelling, universal series. To me, it has many more layers and levels of meaning than Star Wars. Related to this, it is absolutely loaded with philosophy, which is a topic I intimately love. By the way, I only regard on screen material as part of either series. I do not take the books and so forth for either series into account. Also, the term "Star Trek" refers to all the shows and movies, not just TOS ("The Old Series").

[_____V_____]

Okay, here's the latest.

- We have a total of 229 nominated films from 17 HDC members, myself included.

- The number of films which figure in TWO or more lists stands at 60.

- This means, we have to find 40 more films (and 25 Honorable Mentions) from the rest (which is 169 in number).

- Debating will be phase-wise, which means, we shall tackle the films in the order of the most number of representations, proceeding on to the next batch, and so on.

- Debating should be interesting once we reach the TWO and single nomination films.


First batch will be up later today. Sharpen your pencils and get ready to rap those gavels!

[Despare]

I pretty much just chose 20 films that popped into my head when I think of "great," without too much thought. If I had stopped to think about it the task would have been too daunting and I would have been bogged down for weeks with internal debate.

It's a terrible task when there are directors, like Kubrick, Scorsese, Coppola, Hitchcock, Robert Altman and Akira Kurosawa, whose entire bodies of work can be considered masterpieces or near, with few missteps. Now I'm regretting RAN wasn't on my list... Nor were any Woody Allen films; like him or hate him, he's one of the most influential filmmakers of the modern era.

I probably broke some rules here mentioning some films by name.

I really just hoped that a lot of the great ones I missed were on other lists.

[Straker]

I started off with a rough draft of about 40 or so movies then started to thin it out as best I could, but I wasn't ever really satisfied with my final 20. I'm hoping some people have picked up on a few classics that didn't quite make my cut or that I just overlooked altogether and that some of the lesser known classics aren't completely ignored. Its not easy picking just 20 movies.

[_____V_____]

Whittling down my 55-odd to the final 20 which are my favorites AND are equally great in their standings in their own genre (IMO) was a really tough task as well.

Be sure I'll be fighting tooth and nail for the ones I listed and which ended up in the two or less votes' sections. :halloween:

[Kandarian Demon]

Picking just 20 movies was incredibly hard - much harder than when we made the horror list, because at least that was limited to one genre. With all genres BUT horror, there was so much to choose from.

As you'll probably find out, I have 4 movies from the same movie franchise on my list, and I debated that a lot with myself - should I just pick the best one of them, and make room for 3 completely different movies. But then again, I couldn't actually choose between what I consider to be 4 incredible works of art, and hated the thought of picking what I felt was a less deserving movie over one of them.

So... my list might be a little "boring" in that way, but my choices came from the heart, and I have a "defence" for every choice... I also fully expect that I'm going to need it! ::big grin::

[_____V_____]

Okay, here we go.

The first set of films, which have scored FIVE or more nominations, are:-


(7 nominations)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ih%2Bl%2BGY5L._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61xKUPB15oL._SY300_.jpg


(6 nominations)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510TYTH4G4L._SY300_.jpg


(5 nominations)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ucEf8iZ6L._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514C24J9A6L._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kyiFOn-ZL._SY300_.jpg



Arguments/objections for/against, if any? Majority decides.

If not, then we can waive all SIX films through and move on to the next set.

[sfear]

Not all that crazy for Star Wars but I won't fight against. More influential than good, I just thought it was an okay story with very impressive special effects. If they would have put all that time, effort and technology into something like Edmond Hamilton's The Star Kings they'd have had a bona fide classic on their hands. My unqualified opinion, of course.

[Sculpt]

I pretty much just chose 20 films that popped into my head when I think of "great," without too much thought. If I had stopped to think about it the task would have been too daunting and I would have been bogged down for weeks with internal debate.

It's a terrible task when there are directors, like Kubrick, Scorsese, Coppola, Hitchcock, Robert Altman and Akira Kurosawa, whose entire bodies of work can be considered masterpieces or near, with few missteps. Now I'm regretting RAN wasn't on my list... Nor were any Woody Allen films; like him or hate him, he's one of the most influential filmmakers of the modern era.

I probably broke some rules here mentioning some films by name.
I picked Annie Hall (one of my favorites) from Allen. I think it has good story flow, which can sometimes be disjointed in his films. We'll at least have one. Something tells me our group won't have a lot of Allen.

Personally, I am a big Star Wars fan with my favorite being A New Hope. Honestly though, I enjoy all of the Star Wars films including the prequel series.

In regards to Star Trek, despite my love for Star Wars, I am a far bigger fan of Star Trek than Star Wars. In my opinion, Star Trek is a more compelling, universal series. To me, it has many more layers and levels of meaning than Star Wars. Related to this, it is absolutely loaded with philosophy, which is a topic I intimately love. By the way, I only regard on screen material as part of either series. I do not take the books and so forth for either series into account. Also, the term "Star Trek" refers to all the shows and movies, not just TOS ("The Old Series").
I wouldn't say the Star Trek films necessarily have more layers of meaning than Star Wars, but the TV shows had more per min than Wars films.

I started off with a rough draft of about 40 or so movies then started to thin it out as best I could, but I wasn't ever really satisfied with my final 20. I'm hoping some people have picked up on a few classics that didn't quite make my cut or that I just overlooked altogether and that some of the lesser known classics aren't completely ignored. Its not easy picking just 20 movies.
I ran up about 30 films off the top of my head, and then I looked at about 3 of the more highly regarded lists to catch the ones I missed.

Picking just 20 movies was incredibly hard - much harder than when we made the horror list, because at least that was limited to one genre. With all genres BUT horror, there was so much to choose from.

As you'll probably find out, I have 4 movies from the same movie franchise on my list, and I debated that a lot with myself - should I just pick the best one of them, and make room for 3 completely different movies. But then again, I couldn't actually choose between what I consider to be 4 incredible works of art, and hated the thought of picking what I felt was a less deserving movie over one of them.

So... my list might be a little "boring" in that way, but my choices came from the heart, and I have a "defence" for every choice... I also fully expect that I'm going to need it! ::big grin::
I think it's proper to pick more than one film from one franchise if you think they're the best.



Ah, the films list got posted a few minutes before my last post...

All of those films were on my list. So yes, those all pass for me.

[neverending]

It's tough to say I pass the entire group without knowing what else is in store.

Having said that, the only two I don't care for that much are Indiana Jones and Star Wars. I remember watching Star Wars during its first week of release, with a group of friends. They all loved it, but I, film snob even back then, felt it set science fiction cinema back to the Flash Gordon era, just as it was finally making strides in presenting sophisticated ideas in films such as 2001 and Silent Running. Still, C3PO, as an homage to Metropolis, was fun.

I won't argue against them.


I picked Annie Hall (one of my favorites) from Allen. I think it has good story flow, which can sometimes be disjointed in his films. We'll at least have one. Something tells me our group won't have a lot of Allen.

Many years ago (MANY) I read a book contrasting the films of Woody Allen and Mel Brooks. They quoted an interview with Allen saying he wanted to elevate comedy film making; he felt that comedy films never got big budgets, and invariably looked cheap. The prevailing wisdom being that comedy didn't need a budget to be funny. Allen finally got his chance with Annie Hall, and got an Academy Award for his efforts.

[Sculpt]

It's tough to say I pass the entire group without knowing what else is in store.

Having said that, the only two I don't care for that much are Indiana Jones and Star Wars. I remember watching Star Wars during its first week of release, with a group of friends. They all loved it, but I, film snob even back then, felt it set science fiction cinema back to the Flash Gordon era, just as it was finally making strides in presenting sophisticated ideas in films such as 2001 and Silent Running. Still, C3PO, as an homage to Metropolis, was fun.

I won't argue against them.
I'm a sci-fi buff. The more detailed, science orientated and philosophical the better. So I know what you mean. Still, I think the key element of Star Wars was the multiple metaphysical/paranormal/Eastern philosophical elements of the force. Most of which isn't alien to sci-fi.

[The Villain]

The only one i have a problem with is Citizen Kane. I always felt that it was highly overrated. I feel like it gets included on lists like these because its been called one of the best movies of all time without actually being one. People just instinctively throw it in. I never really understood the hype.

[metternich1815]

Those look good to me. I was never a big fan of Raiders of the Lost Ark, but it is not a bad inclusion. I have to disagree with what some have said on Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope. While the others are debatable, the original film was incredible. in my opinion, the best of the series, though Empire Strikes Back is a close second. I will agree it is simpler than other science fiction works (including its main competitor Star Trek), but it still does have a good deal of layer. The film encompasses universal ideas and, honestly, I felt it was a solid story. It could have been better, but it was still interesting. There were also some excellent performances by all involved. Sure, Mark Hamill was not perfect, but still a solid performance. Not to mention the fact that it introduced one of the most menacing villains of cinema: Darth Vader. The film also contained a beautiful score by John Williams, which has since gone down as one of the greatest scores of all time, not to mention one of the most recognizable. This does not even take into account the special effects, which were incredible and the film was equally stunning visually. One unfortunate aspect of the Star Wars films of note is that it seems George Lucas is always releasing a new version. I do not want to get on the Lucas hating bandwagon, but, personally, I think, better or worse, he should not have touched the films. I am sure they were fine as is. Most of the other films speak for themselves, so I won't go into them. All of the others are tremendous films though.

I wouldn't say the Star Trek films necessarily have more layers of meaning than Star Wars, but the TV shows had more per min than Wars films.


To be clear, when I refer to Star Trek, I refer to everything collectively, unless I specifically define, not just the movies per say.

The only one i have a problem with is Citizen Kane. I always felt that it was highly overrated. I feel like it gets included on lists like these because its been called one of the best movies of all time without actually being one. People just instinctively throw it in. I never really understood the hype.

That is one film I did not think I would have to defend. I have to disagree strongly. I agree that it is not the greatest film of all time, but there is no doubt it is among the greatest. The story was compelling. It was interesting to see the evolution of the character Kane. The film also pioneered many film techniques and narrative techniques never used in film before. Related to this, the cinematography was incredible. It added just what was necessary to the film. There were some excellent performances, particularly the main character. When I first saw the film, I was blown away. It was definitely one of the best black and white films I had ever seen. It has been a while since I have seen it, so I can't discuss it in great detail.

[_____V_____]

The only one i have a problem with is Citizen Kane. I always felt that it was highly overrated. I feel like it gets included on lists like these because its been called one of the best movies of all time without actually being one. People just instinctively throw it in. I never really understood the hype.

Same here. Orson Welles did a great job, but the film as a whole isn't as awesomely great as people make it to be.

Don't get why people love Casablanca and Gone With The Wind so much either.

Brando's On The Waterfront is a much better film, IMO, and doesn't get as much attention as the big 3 afore-mentioned.

[neverending]

It could have been better, but it was still interesting.

This qualifies it as one of the best films of all times? ::stick out tongue::



Yes, I know I just cherry picked a single sentence from your entire post, ignoring the rest. I'm just saying.

::wink::

[metternich1815]

Same here. Orson Welles did a great job, but the film as a whole isn't as awesomely great as people make it to be.

Don't get why people love Casablanca and Gone With The Wind so much either.

Brando's On The Waterfront is a much better film, IMO, and doesn't get as much attention as the big 3 afore-mentioned.

I entirely disagree on Citizen Kane, as discussed and I also disagree on Casablanca. Casablanca had a compelling story that drew me in. I was captivated until the very end. There were some terrific performances as well particularly Humphrey Bogart. I also enjoyed the romance. I am not a big romance persnon, but I thought it was well done in this film. Not to mention the classic ending at the end of the movie. All-around a great movie and definitely a worthy addition to a greatest films list. I do agree on Gone with the Wind. I think that one was overrated. It's good, but not as much as is often said, in my opinion. I will have to check out On the Waterfront.

This qualifies it as one of the best films of all times? ::stick out tongue::



Yes, I know I just cherry picked a single sentence from your entire post, ignoring the rest. I'm just saying.

::wink::

I was just saying that the story could have been a little more complex and been tweaked a little, but the other elements of the film more than make up for it, in my opinion (that part of my statement was really referring to the story, not the film as a whole, by the way).

[neverending]

I wouldn't say Gone With the Wind is over-rated, but it hasn't aged well. It's conspicuously absent from the top nominations, and I suspect that's why.

Casablanca, is a phenomenal example of a troubled production that managed to become one of the most popular films of all times. Amidst the wartime background is the steamy story of an ill-fated romance, rekindled with such passion that little else matters, and yet Rick's innate morality wins out, as he sacrifices his own happiness in order to make sure Ilsa and her husband make it to safety, ensuring the success of the war resistance. Add to that the sparkling dialogue, with many examples of witty exchanges, contrasted with the stark emotion of Rick's pain.

Bogart's soliloquy brings a tear to my eye every time. "Of all the gin joins in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine..." You SEE the tears he's holding back. It's the performance of his career.

Add to THAT, the many memorable characters such as Claude Rains' duplicitous police chief, Peter Lorre's slimy toadie and Sidney Greenstreet's masterful turn that made him a star and resulted in a series of films teaming him with Lorre.

Citizen Kane is hard for many viewers to relate to today, I think, because it's a very cold film, and everything today passion and emotion, where everything must be FELT. It's an intellectual film chronicling the downfall of a corrupt powerful man, who sacrificed everything for money and power, especially his emotions , and anyone who got close to him. Quite a daring film in its day when William Randolph Hearst was still very much in power, its impact may be somewhat lessened today when many don't even know who he is. However, it's superbly crafted, impeccably shot, and it makes its point with a savage force.


I was just saying that the story could have been a little more complex and been tweaked a little, but the other elements of the film more than make up for it, in my opinion (that part of my statement was really referring to the story, not the film as a whole, by the way).

Yah, I got that. You might have noticed I said "Yes I know I just cherry picked a single sentence from your entire post, ignoring the rest." Did you see that? I also ended the entire thing with a wink - ::wink::

I'm going to take a lot of pot shots at various statements throughout this entire process. I hope people don't take them too seriously. I'll endeavor to keep things somewhat lighthearted. wink wink ::wink:: ::wink::

[metternich1815]

I wouldn't say Gone With the Wind is over-rated, but it hasn't aged well. It's conspicuously absent from the top nominations, and I suspect that's why.

Casablanca, is a phenomenal example of a troubled production that managed to become one of the most popular films of all times. Amidst the wartime background is the steamy story of an ill-fated romance, rekindled with such passion that little else matters, and yet Rick's innate morality wins out, as he sacrifices his own happiness in order to make sure Ilsa and her husband make it to safety, ensuring the success of the war resistance. Add to that the sparkling dialogue, with many examples of witty exchanges, contrasted with the stark emotion of Rick's pain.

Bogart's sociology brings a tear to my eye every time. "Of all the gin joins in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine..." You SEE the tears he's holding back. It's the performance of his career.

Add to THAT, the many memorable characters such as Claude Rains' duplicitous police chief, Peter Lorre's slimy toadie and Sidney Greenstreet's masterful turn that made him a star and resulted in a series of films teaming him with Lorre.

Citizen Kane is hard for many viewers to relate to today, I think, because it's a very cold film, and everything today passion and emotion, where everything must be FELT. It's an intellectual film chronicling the downfall of a corrupt powerful man, who sacrificed everything for money and power, especially his emotions , and anyone who got close to him. Quite a daring film in its day when William Randolph Hearst was still very much in power, its impact may be somewhat lessened today when many don't even know who he is. However, it's superbly crafted, impeccably shot, and it makes its point with a savage force.

I could not have said it better.

Yah, I got that. You might have noticed I said "Yes I know I just cherry picked a single sentence from your entire post, ignoring the rest." Did you see that? I also ended the entire thing with a wink - ::wink::

I'm going to take a lot of pot shots at various statements throughout this entire process. I hope people don't take them too seriously. I'll endeavor to keep things somewhat lighthearted. wink wink ::wink:: ::wink::

Yeah, I saw that, but I figured I would clarify, just in case.

[Kandarian Demon]

I don't have a problem with any of the mentioned movies being on the list.

I'm not crazy about Cassablanca to be honest, but that has more to do with the genre than the quality of the movie itself, which is why I won't object to it. I may be a woman, but I've never cared much for the romance genre - the idea of taking something from "real life" and turning it into something so unrealistic makes it hard for me to relate to it.

Boy, am I going to be reminded by the rest of you that I said that, when I get to my defence of a certain movie from my own list... ::big grin::

[roshiq]

Citizen Kane is hard for many viewers to relate to today, I think, because it's a very cold film, and everything today passion and emotion, where everything must be FELT. It's an intellectual film chronicling the downfall of a corrupt powerful man, who sacrificed everything for money and power, especially his emotions , and anyone who got close to him. Quite a daring film in its day when William Randolph Hearst was still very much in power, its impact may be somewhat lessened today when many don't even know who he is. However, it's superbly crafted, impeccably shot, and it makes its point with a savage force.


That is one film I did not think I would have to defend. I have to disagree strongly. I agree that it is not the greatest film of all time, but there is no doubt it is among the greatest. The story was compelling. It was interesting to see the evolution of the character Kane. The film also pioneered many film techniques and narrative techniques never used in film before. Related to this, the cinematography was incredible. It added just what was necessary to the film. There were some excellent performances, particularly the main character. When I first saw the film, I was blown away. It was definitely one of the best black and white films I had ever seen. It has been a while since I have seen it, so I can't discuss it in great detail.

Though apart from Schindler's List none of the Top voted films made into my top 20 but I like to strongly stand for Citizen Cane here. I think NE & metternich already defined it beautifully & actually can't add anything more. All I can say is it'll be a shame for us as ardent movie lovers if we failed to give its desired place in the Final Top 100 compilation.

I'm not against at all such awesome entertaining films like Raiders of the Lost Ark & Star Wars: New Hope and may it's just me but whenever I see films like this competing with films like Schindler's List, Citizen Cane & many other unquestionably brilliant films then I feel it may be better to have some categories in the final compilation...like the way we did in The Sub-Genres of Horror list, i.e. Cinematic Excellence, Most Beloved or Popular Films, Director's Cut etc.

[_____V_____]

I entirely disagree on Citizen Kane, as discussed and I also disagree on Casablanca. Casablanca had a compelling story that drew me in. I was captivated until the very end. There were some terrific performances as well particularly Humphrey Bogart. I also enjoyed the romance. I am not a big romance persnon, but I thought it was well done in this film. Not to mention the classic ending at the end of the movie. All-around a great movie and definitely a worthy addition to a greatest films list.

Bogart's best (and career defining) role was in The Maltese Falcon, IMO. Apart from his absolutely brilliant performance as the brooding Sam Spade, and supported ably by an equally impressive supporting cast, the film itself is undoubtedly a milestone in cinema history, because it paved the way for all mystery/noir films to come, and also commercialised the femme fatale character in a huge way.

Ask me to choose, and I would pick this over Casablanca any day.

-------------------------------

Anyway, looks like the majority are in favor of the most-nominated films.

If Villain waives Citizen Kane through, we can move on.

[The Villain]

I still think Citizen Kane is on here for the wrong reasons but I'll OK it so we can move on

[Straker]

Not gonna lie, I'm entirely against Raiders of the Lost Ark in the list, maybe as an honourable mention just to satisfy nostalgia, but I'm not a fan at all. Star Wars is a little more iconic and has a stronger cast with some fine individual performances, so I'm less against it. But if I wanted an Alec Guinness performance in my top 100, it would have been Kind Hearts and Coronets or The Mudlark, not Star Wars. Not going to vote against either movie, because I really don't think its worth it, just wanted to voice my opinion.

Regarding Citizen Kane, its just a flat out quality film, good story, great acting and a story that resonates and has a really beautifully written script. They are all personal opinions however and I don't expect everyone to agree with them, but I'd like to just make one more point for people to consider while we are making up our final list. When we talk about how film x changed cinema or influenced a genre just be aware that no movie in cinema history influenced its predecessors as much as Citizen Kane. Orson Welles provided the blueprint and has influenced just about every director that came after him, whether they knew it or not.

[_____V_____]

Okay, I think the majority are in favor of the topmost nominated ones so they all snuggle themselves into the final 100.


Moving on, here are the SEVEN films with 4 nominations each:

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/32/d3/cdcdeb6709a0070e63803110.L._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51J5RNGX7YL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XERnTAR1L._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61Fu%2BjyO3iL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41tnMdTZpOL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EG732BV3L._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ZFKYV85pL._SY300_.jpg


Arguments/objections/votes for/against, if any? Majority decides.

If not, then we can waive all SEVEN films through and move on to the next set.

[Straker]

I'm pro all the above movies with the exception of The Matrix.... Is it a good movie? Yes. Is it one of the best 100 movies ever made? No. Again, I'm not going to vote against it, because its going to get in anyway. The fact that it made so many peoples top 20 movies of all time is a surprise to me, but then again these things always surprise me.

[hammerfan]

I'm good with moving them on.

[Despare]

As those wonderful Nike adbots would say...

Just Do It

[roshiq]

I'm pro all the above movies with the exception of The Matrix.... Is it a good movie? Yes. Is it one of the best 100 movies ever made? No. Again, I'm not going to vote against it, because its going to get in anyway. The fact that it made so many peoples top 20 movies of all time is a surprise to me, but then again these things always surprise me.

Totally agree. It's really odd to see Matrix is standing along with them.

[Kandarian Demon]

I'm pro all the above movies with the exception of The Matrix.... Is it a good movie? Yes. Is it one of the best 100 movies ever made? No. Again, I'm not going to vote against it, because its going to get in anyway.

Totally agree. It's really odd to see Matrix is standing along with them.


I have to agree with you there.... and it does seem a bit pointless to try to argue against a movie that got that many votes already. However, there's already 3 of us who don't seem to agree with that choice, so maybe there IS a reason to debate it?

[The Villain]

I'm pro all the above movies with the exception of The Matrix.... Is it a good movie? Yes. Is it one of the best 100 movies ever made? No. Again, I'm not going to vote against it, because its going to get in anyway. The fact that it made so many peoples top 20 movies of all time is a surprise to me, but then again these things always surprise me.

It doesn't seem impressive anymore but when The Matrix came out it was pretty groundbreaking and was very influential. I think it gets a bad reputation due to the horrible sequels that followed. The first movie though had a great story, exciting and fresh visuals and started a trend of sci-fi action films. It looks strange among the other movies listed but I'd argue its inclusion.

I'm good with the rest of the movies as well.

[metternich1815]

I am not a big fan of weterns, but I am fine with those choices. Of the ones I have seen, they were all tremendous films.

I'm pro all the above movies with the exception of The Matrix.... Is it a good movie? Yes. Is it one of the best 100 movies ever made? No. Again, I'm not going to vote against it, because its going to get in anyway. The fact that it made so many peoples top 20 movies of all time is a surprise to me, but then again these things always surprise me.

Totally agree. It's really odd to see Matrix is standing along with them.

I have to agree with you there.... and it does seem a bit pointless to try to argue against a movie that got that many votes already. However, there's already 3 of us who don't seem to agree with that choice, so maybe there IS a reason to debate it?

I have to disagree strongly. unlike my minor criticisms of Star Wars, I have literally no criticisms of this film. In my opinion, it is without a doubt one of the greatest science fiction films ever made. The special effects were amazing for the time. I believe they did things never done before. The performances were all amazing. They added the perfect compment to the film. It was interesting to see the evolution of Keanu Reeves as Neo from the start to the end when he finally accepts who he is. Joe Pantolino was excellent as the devious Cypher. I thought the whole regret motive was perfect. And, of course, the main villain Agent Smith played by Hugo Weaving. Definitely an amazing performance and excellent addition to the list of science fiction villains. I especially love his whole speech to Morpheus in the skyscraper. Then, you have Laurence Fishborne as Morpheus, who had a unexplainable, sinister element to him, which I loved. Those are the most noteworthy performances and they all added the perfect element to the film. Then, you have the story, which was appropriately complex and interesting. While there are certain logical questions, it remains an excellent premise. One that I have always found especially mind bending. Related to this, the film is absolutely loaded with philosophy. This topic alone could be the topic of an entire book. Questions like what is reality, does fate exist, and much more. I also loved the whole "Alice in Wonderland" theme. I have always been a fan of dark films and there is no doubt that this is one both in theme and visuals. The atmosphere is absolutely perfect. The rain sequences were magnificent. The score perfectly complements the film as well. To be honest, I could go on and on. Is this film good? It's not just good, it is a masterpiece. I would place it in a top 20 list any day without a second thought.

[neverending]

Again, I have to wonder what else is coming up... We're choosing our top 100, and if I remember correctly, there are something like 269 films on the master list. What happens when we've passed through 50 films with little comment, and we've only got 50 spots left, with over 200 films to pick through?

[_____V_____]

I have to agree with you there.... and it does seem a bit pointless to try to argue against a movie that got that many votes already. However, there's already 3 of us who don't seem to agree with that choice, so maybe there IS a reason to debate it?

Again, I have to wonder what else is coming up... We're choosing our top 100, and if I remember correctly, there are something like 269 films on the master list. What happens when we've passed through 50 films with little comment, and we've only got 50 spots left, with over 200 films to pick through?

We can put those films which don't feel like belonging into the final list, in a backburner, and come back to debate them when there's a race for the final spots. See how these films, which don't feel like they are good enough to pair up with the rest, stack up against those films which got only 1-2 nominations but are excellent ones.

Of course, that would mean taking Raiders, Star Wars, Citizen Kane and Matrix to the backburner, since these 4 films have received objections till now.

[neverending]

IMO if everyone knew what films are on the master list, they would be more selective on what films they pass each round.

[Sculpt]

IMO if everyone knew what films are on the master list, they would be more selective on what films they pass each round.
I know what you mean. In the (Horror by decade list) per decade approach, we saw all the possibilities, so we knew what films we were comparing each individual film to. In that way, it was a very nifty process approach. We don't have that here. As I know you know, we're sacrificing (at least so far) that upfront comparison in order to include all worthy films without the horridly arbitrary cutoff of a decade.

However, V is telling us, unlike the stringent cutoff deadline of the per decade process, we can reconsider these films at a later date.

Still, I think Never has a point. V, would you consider posting a link to the entire list (if it's not a lot of work). At least then everyone CAN see all the choices, and end the discomforting thought that an informed comparison isn't being made. (Logically, a list of 200 some films is hard to process, but it still accomplishes the task).


Matrix -
Let me join Metternich in my very high praise of the all-around film quality of The Matrix. In these great films we're looking at, most of us see very few flaws. In the Matrix, I see no major film flaws. On the contrary, I think it's a masterpiece of film, extremely high quality craft in all areas- impactful premise, story telling, character development, suspense, martial arts, stunts, action, sets, costumes, cinematography, sound, special effects and heart.

Of course, let everyone judge themselves, but I think some objections to these "top rated" films comes from a personal lack of interest (or distaste) in the subject matter. Something to watch in oneself.

* I'm fine with these films.

Once Upon a Time in the West -
I watched this film in it's entirety recently. I wasn't impressed with it. As others have offered, I also am not going to place an Objection to it. I freely admit, it wasn't that I thought the quality of the film craft was poor... I just didn't find the story or characters compelling. This film is highly regarded by critics and the general public. But I'm willing to step up and say, there are 100s of films that are technically sound, and so more is required from a film to make a Top 20 or Top 100... for me it's not there. But I'm obviously one of the few who find it so.

[_____V_____]

So be it.

Posting the entire Master List in the next post, along with the number of nominations each film has received (if more than ONE).

I have been really sick for the past week or so. Might have to get admitted in the hospital for a few days if the present meds don't work. Right now I can barely keep my eyes open. If anyone wants to take up the project from here on, feel free. I might not give this the required time.

[_____V_____]

Here is the complete Master List of all 228 films, together with the number of nominations:-

12 Angry Men (1957) - 2
12 Rounds
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) - 4
21 Jump Street
8 ½ (1963)
9#11
A CHRISTMAS CAROL
A Few Good Men - 2
A Fistful of Dollars
A HARD DAY'S NIGHT
Alice in Wonderland (2010)
Amadeus (1984)
Amelie (2001)
ANDREI RUBLEV
Annie Hall
Apocalypse Now - 2
Argo
Avatar
Back To The Future (1985) - 3
Back to the Future Part II
Ben Hur
Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey
Black Swan (2010)
Blade Runner [1982] - 2
Blazing Saddles
Bonnie & Clyde - 2
Bottle Rocket
Braveheart
BRAZIL
Breaking The Waves (1996)
Broadcast News
Bugsy Malone (1976)
Casablanca (1942) - 7
Casino
Chinatown - 2
Citizen Kane (1941) - 5
City Lights
Close Encounters Of The Third Kind (1977) - 2
Coach Carter
Come and See (1985)
Cool Hand Luke
Crash
CROSS OF IRON
DAMNATION
Dancer In The Dark (2000)
Dances With Wolves (1990)
Dazed and Confused
Dear John
Die Hard - 3
Django Unchained
Dog Day Afternoon (1975) - 3
Double Indemnity (1944)
Dr. Strangelove (1964) - 4
Drowning By Numbers (1988)
Duck Soup
Duck You Sucker
Dumbo
Dune (1984)
E.T. The Extra Terrestrial
Edward Scissorhands (1990) - 3
Enemy At The Gates
Erin Brockovich
Escape From New York
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004) - 2
Fargo - 2
Fight Club
Fitzcarraldo (1982)
FOR A FEW DOLLARS MORE
Forrest Gump
Friday
Gandhi
Gettysburg
Glengarry Glen Ross - 2
Glory
Gone With The Wind (1939) - 3
GoodFellas
Gran Torino
Gravity - 2
Groundhog Day
Harold and Maude
HELP!
I, Robot
Inception - 2
Independence Day - 2
Iron Will
It's a Wonderful Life - 3
Kill Bill [2003]
La Bamba (1987)
Labyrinth
LAURA
Lawrence Of Arabia (1962) - 2
Legend
Live Free or Die Hard [2007]
Mac and Devin go to High School
MASH
Metropolis (1927) - 4
Modern Times
Monty Python & The Holy Grail [1975] - 3
Mulholland Drive (2001)
Music Man
Mystic River
Nightmare Alley (1947)
North By Northwest (1959) - 2
NORTH TO ALASKA
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
Old Yeller (1957)
On Golden Pond
Once
Once Upon a Time in the West (1968) - 4
One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest (1975) - 3
PAPILLION
Paths of Glory
Philadelphia (1993)
Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End (2007)
Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl - 2
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Mans Chest (2006)
Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides (2011)
Planet of the Apes (1968)
Platoon
Princess Mononoke [1997]
Pulp Fiction - 3
Punch Drunk Love
Raging Bull - 2
Raiders Of The Lost Ark (1981) - 7
Raising Arizona
RAN
Rashomon (1950) - 2
Rear Window
Road To Perdition
Rocky (1976) - 2
Romeo & Juliet [1996]
Rushmore
SATANTANGO
Saving Private Ryan - 3
Schindler's List (1993) - 5
Scum (1977)
Seven Samurai (1954) - 2
Singing in the Rain
Sleeping Beauty
Spartacus
Star Trek (2009)
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) - 2
Star Trek Into Darkness
Star Wars (1977) - 6
Steel Magnolias
StreetBallers
Sunset Boulevard (1950)
Super Troopers
Superman
Taxi Driver
Terminator 2: Judgment Day - 2
The Adventures Of Baron Munchausen (1988)
The African Queen
THE APARTMENT
The Avengers
The Bicycle Thief (1948)
The Blind Side
The Boondock Saints
THE COMANCHEROS
The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover (1989)
The Crow
The Dark Knight - 2
The Day After Tomorrow
THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL (Robert Wise)
THE DEER HUNTER
The Departed - 2
The Descendents
The Elephant Man (1980) - 2
The Empire Strikes Back - 3
The Fifth Element [1997]
The Fountain (2006)
THE GETAWAY (Sam Peckinpah)
The Godfather (1972) - 4
The Godfather II
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - 2
The Goonies (1985)
The Grapes of Wrath
THE GREAT ESCAPE
The Great Race
The Green Mile (1999)
The Hunt For Red October [1990]
The Hurt Locker
The Karate Kid
The Lion King - 2
THE LONGEST DAY
The Lord of the Rings - 2
The Magnificent Seven [1960]
The Matrix - 4
The Music Room (1958)
The Naked Civil Servant (1975)
The Naked Gun [1988]
The Neverending Story
The Patriot
THE PIANIST
The Piano Teacher (2001)
The Princess Bride - 2
The Quiet Man (John Ford film)
The Shawshank Redemption (1994) - 4
The Social Network
THE SONS OF KATIE ELDER
The Sting
The Ten Commandments (1956)
The Terminator - 3
The Third Man (1949)
The Wild Bunch - 2
The Wizard Of Oz (1939) - 5
The X-Men
THIS IS SPINAL TAP - 2
Thunderheart (1992)
Time Bandits (1981)
Titanic - 3
To Kill A Mockingbird - 3
Tombstone [1993]
Toy Story
Trainspotting
Tron [1982]
Twelve Monkeys (1995) - 3
Unforgiven (1992) - 2
Up (2009)
Vertigo (1958) - 3
Walk The Line
Wall-E
Warrior
We Were Soldiers
When Harry Met Sally
Wild Strawberries (1957)
Willow (1988)
Yellow Submarine

[neverending]

Thanks for posting the list, V. It's quite an interesting collection of films. And now I see I need to gather my energy to fight for my lone nomination of a stellar adaptation of one of the greatest pieces of Western Literature, The Grapes of Wrath, against some truly awful drek that got multiple votes





::wink:: <------- Look, see, I'm WINKING, okay? So back off, you Pirates of the Caribbean freaks!

[neverending]

So be it.

Posting the entire Master List in the next post, along with the number of nominations each film has received (if more than ONE).

I have been really sick for the past week or so. Might have to get admitted in the hospital for a few days if the present meds don't work. Right now I can barely keep my eyes open. If anyone wants to take up the project from here on, feel free. I might not give this the required time.


Take care of yourself, V! We'll wait for your return, a please be well!

[roshiq]

So be it.

Posting the entire Master List in the next post, along with the number of nominations each film has received (if more than ONE).

I have been really sick for the past week or so. Might have to get admitted in the hospital for a few days if the present meds don't work. Right now I can barely keep my eyes open. If anyone wants to take up the project from here on, feel free. I might not give this the required time.

Get well soon, buddy! We're not in any sort of hurry here. Take your time, the whole process requires much time, discussion & sophisticated approach that you've done marvelously so far in plenty of earlier projects, so this can't be possibly done nicely without your guidelines & efforts, IMO.

Meantime, we all can go through the list, check and verify carefully & try to give another thoughts about which should be added or deleted for the final list as well as we can have new discussions about a particular movie or another set of films.


::wink:: <------- Look, see, I'm WINKING, okay? So back off, you Pirates of the Caribbean freaks!

ROFL! ::big grin::

[roshiq]

Ok guys, here's a proposition I like to share with you...

As long V's going through his recovery, we can continue some discussions/debate from where he can later take some necessary notes/points and update both the list of Final Top 100 selection & the list of backburners.

Now, my proposition is...we all, one by one chose 5 Great Films from the above master list that weren't in your submitted Top 20 but you like to or won't mind to see them in the final compilation.

After each set of 5 films from a member, we'll have some discussions (like we already have so far) about what other members thinks regarding the chosen 5's worthiness to be part of Top 100.

NOTE: PLEASE DON'T PICK ANY OF THE SELECTED FILMS FROM V'S SUBMITTED FIRST 2 SETS AS WE ALREADY HAVE SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THEM.

From the above master list, here's my chosen 5 Great films that weren't in my submitted Top 20 but I'll love/like to or at least won't mind to see them making into the final 100:

Lawrence Of Arabia (1962)
To Kill A Mockingbird (1962)
A Clockwork Orange (1971)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
GoodFellas (1990)

The reason I didn't pick them earlier into my submitted Top 20 to V is, I believed there are couple of number of brilliant films that will eventually make into the master list with or without my suggestions and the above 5 are some of them. My plan was to give them necessary back up & my full support whenever requires. Now, please feel free to discuss about them and share your opinion regarding whether they should be in the final 100 or not. Or you have any objections regarding any of them.

Moreover, please let me know here if you guys think this idea isn't good enough and we all should take some time & wait for V's return whenever he comes back in good shape. And for that, I'll agree too. I only shared the idea just to keep continue the debate/discussions, so that we can make some progress meantime.

[The Villain]

I hope everything's OK and you get better V.

Good idea Roshiq. Here's my 5

A Clockwork Orange
12 Angry Men
Close Encounters of The Third Kind
Fight Club
Platoon

[roshiq]

I hope everything's OK and you get better V.

Good idea Roshiq. Here's my 5

A Clockwork Orange
12 Angry Men
Close Encounters of The Third Kind
Fight Club
Platoon

Thanks & Great selection, Villain! I've no complain against them, moreover really glad to see some support for my one of the very favorite films...12 Angry Men.

Btw, you didn't mention what you think of my chosen 5...agree/disagree or whether you have any objection for any of them to see in the final list??

[hammerfan]

Hoping and praying that the meds work, V!

[Kandarian Demon]

Again, I have to wonder what else is coming up... We're choosing our top 100, and if I remember correctly, there are something like 269 films on the master list. What happens when we've passed through 50 films with little comment, and we've only got 50 spots left, with over 200 films to pick through?

I agree... on the other hand, if the majority here are already in support of a specific movie, then that's very hard to argue against.

To be honest, there are not a lot of movies on the list so far that I think are top 100 movies - but I know how popular, and in some cases influential they are - and I know that that is exactly what everyone is going to tell me if I object to any of them.

Also - if a movie already has an amount of votes that shows us that most of the participants are in favour of it, then my opinion doesn't and shouldn't matter. Just like one of "my" movies shouldn't be on the list if I am the only one backing it - however, if there ARE any spots left on the list when we get to all the movies with one or two supporters, some of us might have looked through the list and thought "hmm, I didn't think of that one!". It's a bit of a shame if we don't get to do that, as we will end up with a list full of all the "obvious" choices.

I still think that it would make sense to debate The Matrix, as it seems that a handful of us don't think it belongs on the list.


::wink:: <------- Look, see, I'm WINKING, okay? So back off, you Pirates of the Caribbean freaks!

Aww, I think that's the nicest thing you've called me since I joined this forum! ::big grin::

[The Villain]

Thanks & Great selection, Villain! I've no complain against them, moreover really glad to see some support for my one of the very favorite films...12 Angry Men.

Btw, you didn't mention what you think of my chosen 5...agree/disagree or whether you have any objection for any of them to see in the final list??

Thanks Roshiq. I love 12 Angry Men, its an amazingly acted and moving movie that everyone should see.

As for your list I agree with all your selections

[realdealblues]

I must admit, I honestly don't remember what all was in my list ::confused:: I must have keep sent messages turned off. I'll try to think about it and pick 5 I don't remember voting for.

[hammerfan]

I must admit, I honestly don't remember what all was in my list ::confused:: I must have keep sent messages turned off. I'll try to think about it and pick 5 I don't remember voting for.

LOL, I'm in the same boat!

[Straker]

Sorry to hear you aren't doing too good V, hope you get well soon! The Top 100 will still be here when you get back though!

As for where we're at right now, I'll try and throw a list together of movies that I didn't vote for, but I also think its a good idea for people to start making their cases for the movies they voted for that have been overlooked.... Like Bela Tarr's 7 hour epic, Sátántangó, or Kurosawa's Rashomon or Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev. 'Foreign' movies can be awesome too, its not just The Matrix that rocks. ::roll eyes::

There are some bloody awful movies on that master list too, some of you people should be ashamed of yourselves. ::stick out tongue::

Thanks & Great selection, Villain! I've no complain against them, moreover really glad to see some support for my one of the very favorite films...12 Angry Men.

I guess you were the other person who voted for 12 Angry Men then. ::cool::

[metternich1815]

Ok guys, here's a proposition I like to share with you...

As long V's going through his recovery, we can continue some discussions/debate from where he can later take some necessary notes/points and update both the list of Final Top 100 selection & the list of backburners.

Now, my proposition is...we all, one by one chose 5 Great Films from the above master list that weren't in your submitted Top 20 but you like to or won't mind to see them in the final compilation.

After each set of 5 films from a member, we'll have some discussions (like we already have so far) about what other members thinks regarding the chosen 5's worthiness to be part of Top 100.

NOTE: PLEASE DON'T PICK ANY OF THE SELECTED FILMS FROM V'S SUBMITTED FIRST 2 SETS AS WE ALREADY HAVE SOME DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THEM.

From the above master list, here's my chosen 5 Great films that weren't in my submitted Top 20 but I'll love/like to or at least won't mind to see them making into the final 100:

Lawrence Of Arabia (1962)
To Kill A Mockingbird (1962)
A Clockwork Orange (1971)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
GoodFellas (1990)

The reason I didn't pick them earlier into my submitted Top 20 to V is, I believed there are couple of number of brilliant films that will eventually make into the master list with or without my suggestions and the above 5 are some of them. My plan was to give them necessary back up & my full support whenever requires. Now, please feel free to discuss about them and share your opinion regarding whether they should be in the final 100 or not. Or you have any objections regarding any of them.

Moreover, please let me know here if you guys think this idea isn't good enough and we all should take some time & wait for V's return whenever he comes back in good shape. And for that, I'll agree too. I only shared the idea just to keep continue the debate/discussions, so that we can make some progress meantime.

Here is my list:

Twelve Monkeys- An excellent, mind-bending film with an excellent story and a solid cast. the film contains an interesting exploration of the topic of fate. Further, I love how the line between fiction and reality is unclear. Through most of the movie you are not sure if this is real or the delusions of a maniac.

The Terminator- A classic science fiction film from the 1980s. I honestly did not include it on my list because I was not sure if it was horror. The film has elements of romance, horror, science fiction, and action. Definitely deserving of a place.

Blade Runner- A dark science fiction story based on a work by noted science fiction author Phillip K. Dick. If I recall correctly, this was the only film based on his works that he had seen and he loved it. There were some excellent performances particularly by Harrison Ford and the atmosphere was beautiful. Also, there was some amazing special effects in the film that really brought the world created by Dick alive.

GoodFellas- A quintessential gangster movie. Casino has always been my personal favorite of the Scorsese gangster films, but I definitely see why this film is so loved. Some terrific performances by all involved. It is fascinating to watch the evolution of the main character played by Ray Liotta. This film really helps to illuminate organized crime and why people decide to go into this line of "work".

12 Angry Men- Sadly, I have yet to see this film, but from what I know, it is an absolutely terrific film. For this reason, I will also support it in this list.

(If you can't tell I am a big science fiction lover)

Now, for films that were in my list, but I would like to bring special attention to.

Duck Soup- An absolute classic of comedy. This film is perhaps the best of the Marx Brothers films. It is particularly noteworthy as it is a criticism of dictatorship and war. This is interesting because this is a few years before the launch of the second World War. As with other films by the Marx Brothers, the film was definitely progressive and did things that were questionable for film in the 1930s. A worthy inclusion on this list.

Back to the Future- This film is a quintessential 80s movie. The plot does not entirely make sense and has logical problems, but that is the point. It is clearly referencing the crazy science fiction films of the 1950s and, to top it off, that is the decade they travel back to. The film also contains some excellent performances by Chrsitpher Lloyd as Doc Brown and Michael J. Fox as Martin McFly. Some may say it is not great enough to be included, but I have to disagree. It may not belong in the top 20, but it definitely belongs on the list, in my opinion.

Vertigo- This is perhaps Hitchcock's best non-horror film. It is fascinating to see the main character played by Jimmy Stewart go through the film. You really feel for his character. The film really draws one in and you are on the edge of your seat until the very end. The ending alone is enough for inclusion. Sadly, the film was a failure in its own day, which is sad because it really is an excellent picture.

Dumbo- I figured this list should have at least one Disney movie. It was difficult to choose one, but this is the one I went with (Snow White and the Seven Dwarves would have been a good choice as well). The film had an interesting storyline which centered around an elephant that was teased because his ears were larger than normal. The film discretely was a criticism of racism. As with racism, Dumbo was picked on purely for looking different. This message is even more clear with the crow scene (and one was even named Jim Crow!). That scene is considered one of the first that did not portray a stereotype of African Americans. Originally the film was to be the cover of Time Magazine, but Pearl Harbor happened, preventing this from ever taking place. Definitely a worthy film for inclusion.

Titanic- I know many will disagree with me, but, other than the clichéd romance, this really is an amazing film. I love Cameron's direction, it really draws one in. Even though the romance is a little unoriginal, there is something about it that makes it more interesting than it should be. The film is also an incredibly accurate vision of sailing and sinking of that great ocean liner. In fact, it is probably the most accurate vision. Throughout the film, there are many references to the time its set, which make it appear more realistic. On that note, the film is visually stunning and contains some of the best historical costumes of a period piece, in my opinion. The music that accompanies the film is absolutely beautiful as well. It complements the film perfectly. A year or two ago they re-released the film in 3-D and, I have to say, that was some of the best 3-D I have ever seen. Sorry, for the long defense on this one, it is just this film receives more hate than I think it should, so I wanted to preemptively protect it.

By the way, roshiq, great selections. I completely agree with them all. Definitely worthy inclusions to the list.


I hope everything's OK and you get better V.

Good idea Roshiq. Here's my 5

A Clockwork Orange
12 Angry Men
Close Encounters of The Third Kind
Fight Club
Platoon

I entirely agree with your selections as well. They are definitely worthy films.

Thanks for posting the list, V. It's quite an interesting collection of films. And now I see I need to gather my energy to fight for my lone nomination of a stellar adaptation of one of the greatest pieces of Western Literature, The Grapes of Wrath, against some truly awful drek that got multiple votes





::wink:: <------- Look, see, I'm WINKING, okay? So back off, you Pirates of the Caribbean freaks!

I will also join neverending in support for this film.

There are some bloody awful movies on that master list too, some of you people should be ashamed of yourselves. ::stick out tongue::


Yeah, I agree here. Who on Earth would vote for a movie called Mac and Devin go to High School? I don't mean to insult anyone's taste, but that is awful. We might as well compare Shawshank Redemption to the Hangover (joking, of course).

[neverending]

Question for V: There are entries for 12 Monkeys and Twelve Monkeys. Did 12 (Twelve) Monkeys get 2 or three votes?

[_____V_____]

Question for V: There are entries for 12 Monkeys and Twelve Monkeys. Did 12 (Twelve) Monkeys get 2 or three votes?

Corrected. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Master List has 228 films, NOT 229.

[sfear]

Just out of curiosity, which Crash was nominated? The one based on the J.G. Ballard novel or the Oscar winner a few years back?

[Sculpt]

Just out of curiosity, which Crash was nominated? The one based on the J.G. Ballard novel or the Oscar winner a few years back?
That's Crash 2004 - the winner of Best Picture (Academy Awards)

I know, because it was on my list.

we all, one by one chose 5 Great Films from the above master list that weren't in your submitted Top 20 but you like to or won't mind to see them in the final compilation.

There's a lot from the Master List I think are worthy. Here's 5 that were in my "more than 20 list" that I like a lot:

Dances With Wolves - If i were to redo my top 20, I'd include Dances and cut Crash. It's beautiful, fascinating, compelling, lot's of heart.
Pulp Fiction - Really liked it a lot. But not entirely sure why. There's no subject matter of importance.
A CLOCKWORK ORANGE - a blaze of fascination and richness
Fight Club - compelling and provocative times 10, and effective
The Lion King - after I saw it, and said to myself, 'this was a really good film'.



Lawrence Of Arabia (1962)
To Kill A Mockingbird (1962)
A Clockwork Orange (1971)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
GoodFellas (1990)

Lawrence Of Arabia (1962) - IMO, overrated extraordinaire. Beautiful big screen shots... and at times boring.
To Kill A Mockingbird (1962) - good film and good subject; just see it as one of so many.
A Clockwork Orange (1971) - talked about above.
Apocalypse Now (1979) - fascinating story. The overall film felt a bit unresolved at the end to me.
GoodFellas - entertaining film that pushes buttons, well directed. I felt the subject matter and story was ultimately frivolous.

[metternich1815]

There's a lot from the Master List I think are worthy. Here's 5 that were in my "more than 20 list" that I like a lot:

Dances With Wolves - If i were to redo my top 20, I'd include Dances and cut Crash. It's beautiful, fascinating, compelling, lot's of heart.
Pulp Fiction - Really liked it a lot. But not entirely sure why. There's no subject matter of importance.
A CLOCKWORK ORANGE - a blaze of fascination and richness
Fight Club - compelling and provocative times 10, and effective
The Lion King - after I saw it, and said to myself, 'this was a really good film'.

Not a bad list, here are my specific thoughts on the films:

Dances with Wolves- I have not seen enough nor do I know enough about Dances with Wolves to have an informed opinion. I own it, perhaps I should watch it.

Pulp Fiction- I definitely agree on this one. It is a classic with some excellent performances and equally excellent directing. One of Tarantino's best, in my opinion.

A Clockwork Orange- I agree with everything said on this film. Honestly, I am surprised it was not considered a horror film. In any case, this film definitely deserves inclusion on this list.

Fight Club- I have not seen this film myself, so I cannot really comment much on the film, but I have heard many good things about it and I am sure it would be a worthy inclusion on the list.

The Lion King- I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have never really liked this film. There are many Disney films that I loved when I was younger, but this is one I could never really get into to.

[Kandarian Demon]

Ok, here's the 5 movies I've chosen from the master list that was not in my personal list:

A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
I actually considered this movie for my own list, and very nearly included it, so this is a movie I will definitely back :-)

BACK TO THE FUTURE II
The first movie was in my list, and actually I love all 3 of them, so... I think they're all very creative movies that can be enjoyed by all ages.

LABYRINTH
Assuming that this is the one with David Bowie and not another movie of the same name, this is one that could have been in my top 30. I know a lot of people think it's horrible, but I think it's a great fantasy movie, and again... when I don't watch horror, I tend to like more family oriented movies.

SCHINDLERS LIST
I remember when I first saw this movie, the person who wanted me to see it told me that it was a movie that everyone should watch at least once, but that most people wouldn't want to watch more than once. It's certainly a tough movie to get through, it doesn't exactly make you feel good... but it makes you think, and it is extremely well done in every way.

SUPERMAN
If this is the classic 80s movie, and not some remake, then I will definitely back it. I've watched it many times over the years, and although I will admit that it probably hasn't aged too well, I still think it's a great movie, and it was very well done for it's time.

[Giganticface]

A Clockwork Orange- ... Honestly, I am surprised it was not considered a horror film. ...

That's what I said when we did the 100 Years of Horror. :) I didn't get any bites. :/

[Giganticface]

I guess I'll (sorta reluctantly) enter the top 100 discussion. Based on some of the past comments, I'm not sure this is the right thread for me. I have a feeling I'm not going enjoy every minute of it. :)

As a head's up, you probably won't ever hear me arguing for a film based on any technical aspect of its makeup, and honestly I don't put a lot of value on those qualities. If the movie makes me think, or makes me feel something, it's on my radar. I won't discredit a film for having a few warts. Flaws are what makes things unique. Obviously I'm not going to praise a film for being a pile of crap, but you won't hear me disqualifying a film because of one element that doesn't meet my particular definition of "good." Like saying Star Wars has too simple a story (it's called melodrama... ever read Shakespere?), or Apocalypse Now feels unresolved (maybe that's... intentional?). My tastes are naturally a bit off-the-beaten-path, so I don't expect everyone (or anyone?) to agree with me, but I do have a strong allergic reaction to the status quo.

So, having said that, here's my next 5. (BTW, I really like the idea roshiq. And, better late than never, "Get better soon, V!!"

Since A Clockwork Orange probably doesn't need my help, I'll hold my vote on that one, but it deserves it. Too sci-fi for many to make the best Horror list (although I disagree), and IMO too horrific to be on the non-horror list.

Since it looks like Once Upon a Time in the West might make it, I'll hold my vote on a different Sergio Leone classic. I chose For a Fistful of Dollars in my top 20, and I prefer the Man with No Name trilogy over the Once...in the West epic, but I would be happy to back For a Few Dollars More or, better yet, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly since it doesn't look like Fistful will get the votes. These films are likely to be poo-pooed by some -- but then again, so are the Bava, Argento and Fulci classics by many critics. They are truly iconic, important and visually beautiful films. Ennio Morricone gave us the score that we now associate with "Westerns." And perhaps most importantly, they essentially invented the anti-hero. All of a sudden John Wayne was a goodie-two-shoes, and no longer the coolest guy on the block. Cinema has never been the same since.

The actual five outside my 20 that I'll back are:

1. Black Swan -- Although I truly consider this a horror film, Arnofsky and Co. did a great job marketing this as non-horror so it would get attention at the Oscars -- so much so that even horror fans believe it. A modern masterpiece in psychological storytelling. Heartbreaking and distressing.

2. Monty Python & The Holy Grail -- No argument is really necessary. If you love it, you love it, and if you don't, you never will. But for a comedy, this film has the most amazingly detailed sets and costumes, and feels extremely gritty for being off-the-wall British slapstick. This film has no peers.

3. The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover -- This film breaks too many rules for most folks, and I wouldn't want to watch it with my mom. But every time I do watch it, I'm left gut-punched for a couple days.

4. The Deer Hunter -- Incredible cast, moving, heartbreaking, epic. A truly impactful drama that is oh so human.

5. Fargo -- I would be fine with any number of Coen Brothers films, but one of them really needs to make the list. I chose O Brother, Where Art Thou?, but that film is a bit niche for a broad range of voters. Fargo has been cherished by quite a few, including myself, and has an endless number of memorable moments. The Coen Bros know how to define and develop unique, but still believable, characters. I personally think The Big Lebowski is a better example of that, but Fargo is probably more respected in a general sense, and a good choice if the Bros only get one.

[Kandarian Demon]

5. Fargo -- I would be fine with any number of Coen Brothers films, but one of them really needs to make the list. I chose O Brother, Where Art Thou?, but that film is a bit niche for a broad range of voters.

Actually I very nearly picked O Brother, Where Art Thou as one of my 5 movies... it's one of the most deserving ones on the master list, in my opinion. But I thought like you, that there would be no point because no one else would pick it. I'd be willing to change my 5 movie list, if you want to back it too...

[Straker]

Out of the movies that didn't make my top 20, I'll back:

A Christmas Carol (Providing its the one staring Alastair Sim and not some god awful modern remake I haven't yet had the misfortune to watch).
The Grapes of Wrath
Rashomon

There are a few others I'd vote for, but for now I'll just wait and see what happens. There's so much crap with multiple votes, I'd rather back movies that I might not necessarily have in my own top 100 that are a ton better than some of the other junk in the running.

Also, someone get behind The Apartment already.... And what's with 12 Monkey's getting more support than Brazil. Surely if you are going to have a Terry Gilliam movie in the top 100 it has to be Brazil. :shocked:

[Giganticface]

Actually I very nearly picked O Brother, Where Art Thou as one of my 5 movies... it's one of the most deserving ones on the master list, in my opinion. But I thought like you, that there would be no point because no one else would pick it. I'd be willing to change my 5 movie list, if you want to back it too...

Awesome! I already have it submitted in my top 20, so I think at this "5 more" point I can't back it. Not sure where this process is all going, but at any point I would gladly debate its merits for being in the list, stronger than I would for Fargo.

And what's with 12 Monkey's getting more support than Brazil. Surely if you are going to have a Terry Gilliam movie in the top 100 it has to be Brazil. :shocked:

They're both amazingly creative films. I came very close to putting Brazil on my next 5, but didn't want to triple-up on Terry Gilliam, since I thought Holy Grail was a must-have. I personally prefer 12 Monkeys to Brazil, but wouldn't have any issue with Brazil taking its place. (For whoever's tracking, that statement doesn't constitute a vote change.)

[Kandarian Demon]

Awesome! I already have it submitted in my top 20, so I think at this "5 more" point I can't back it. Not sure where this process is all going, but at any point I would gladly debate its merits for being in the list, stronger than I would for Fargo.

I just found out I can't edit my older posts, I would have switched Superman for O Brother, Where Art Thou... hopefully this post won't drown, or maybe someone with "special powers" will help us ::big grin::

[metternich1815]

I just found out I can't edit my older posts, I would have switched Superman for O Brother, Where Art Thou... hopefully this post won't drown, or maybe someone with "special powers" will help us ::big grin::

I think there was some issue with people going back and editing their posts, thus causing a number of issues. Or something like that, so the settings were changed so that people could only edit their post for a certain timeframe after posting. I believe it is thirty minutes. I found the thread on this and other changes made last year http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63919

[neverending]

Seeing how this is all just debate, it hardly makes a difference anyway.

[Sculpt]

Here is my list:

Twelve Monkeys- An excellent, mind-bending film with an excellent story and a solid cast. the film contains an interesting exploration of the topic of fate. Further, I love how the line between fiction and reality is unclear. Through most of the movie you are not sure if this is real or the delusions of a maniac.

The Terminator- A classic science fiction film from the 1980s. I honestly did not include it on my list because I was not sure if it was horror. The film has elements of romance, horror, science fiction, and action. Definitely deserving of a place.

Blade Runner- A dark science fiction story based on a work by noted science fiction author Phillip K. Dick. If I recall correctly, this was the only film based on his works that he had seen and he loved it. There were some excellent performances particularly by Harrison Ford and the atmosphere was beautiful. Also, there was some amazing special effects in the film that really brought the world created by Dick alive.

GoodFellas- A quintessential gangster movie. Casino has always been my personal favorite of the Scorsese gangster films, but I definitely see why this film is so loved. Some terrific performances by all involved. It is fascinating to watch the evolution of the main character played by Ray Liotta. This film really helps to illuminate organized crime and why people decide to go into this line of "work".

12 Angry Men- Sadly, I have yet to see this film, but from what I know, it is an absolutely terrific film. For this reason, I will also support it in this list.

(If you can't tell I am a big science fiction lover)

Now, for films that were in my list, but I would like to bring special attention to.

Duck Soup- An absolute classic of comedy. This film is perhaps the best of the Marx Brothers films. It is particularly noteworthy as it is a criticism of dictatorship and war. This is interesting because this is a few years before the launch of the second World War. As with other films by the Marx Brothers, the film was definitely progressive and did things that were questionable for film in the 1930s. A worthy inclusion on this list.

Back to the Future- This film is a quintessential 80s movie. The plot does not entirely make sense and has logical problems, but that is the point. It is clearly referencing the crazy science fiction films of the 1950s and, to top it off, that is the decade they travel back to. The film also contains some excellent performances by Chrsitpher Lloyd as Doc Brown and Michael J. Fox as Martin McFly. Some may say it is not great enough to be included, but I have to disagree. It may not belong in the top 20, but it definitely belongs on the list, in my opinion.

Vertigo- This is perhaps Hitchcock's best non-horror film. It is fascinating to see the main character played by Jimmy Stewart go through the film. You really feel for his character. The film really draws one in and you are on the edge of your seat until the very end. The ending alone is enough for inclusion. Sadly, the film was a failure in its own day, which is sad because it really is an excellent picture.

Dumbo- I figured this list should have at least one Disney movie. It was difficult to choose one, but this is the one I went with (Snow White and the Seven Dwarves would have been a good choice as well). The film had an interesting storyline which centered around an elephant that was teased because his ears were larger than normal. The film discretely was a criticism of racism. As with racism, Dumbo was picked on purely for looking different. This message is even more clear with the crow scene (and one was even named Jim Crow!). That scene is considered one of the first that did not portray a stereotype of African Americans. Originally the film was to be the cover of Time Magazine, but Pearl Harbor happened, preventing this from ever taking place. Definitely a worthy film for inclusion.

Titanic- I know many will disagree with me, but, other than the clichéd romance, this really is an amazing film. I love Cameron's direction, it really draws one in. Even though the romance is a little unoriginal, there is something about it that makes it more interesting than it should be. The film is also an incredibly accurate vision of sailing and sinking of that great ocean liner. In fact, it is probably the most accurate vision. Throughout the film, there are many references to the time its set, which make it appear more realistic. On that note, the film is visually stunning and contains some of the best historical costumes of a period piece, in my opinion. The music that accompanies the film is absolutely beautiful as well. It complements the film perfectly. A year or two ago they re-released the film in 3-D and, I have to say, that was some of the best 3-D I have ever seen. Sorry, for the long defense on this one, it is just this film receives more hate than I think it should, so I wanted to preemptively protect it.
12 & 1/2 Monkeys - That's what I've always called the film (to be funny). I really liked the film. Very unusual story; and the music effectively kept me feeling as uncomfortable as the puzzling story and Willis's servitude. The story is resolved at the end, but though the disorientation is intended, it wearies a little.
Terminator - loved it, excellent sc-fi and exciting. Only x from me is although warning against AI is fine, it lacks an important message.

Blade Runner- loved it, excellent sc-fi. Slight lack of heart for me.

I enjoyed all the films in your list.

Not a bad list, here are my specific thoughts on the films:

Dances with Wolves- I have not seen enough nor do I know enough about Dances with Wolves to have an informed opinion. I own it, perhaps I should watch it.

Pulp Fiction- I definitely agree on this one. It is a classic with some excellent performances and equally excellent directing. One of Tarantino's best, in my opinion.

A Clockwork Orange- I agree with everything said on this film. Honestly, I am surprised it was not considered a horror film. In any case, this film definitely deserves inclusion on this list.

Fight Club- I have not seen this film myself, so I cannot really comment much on the film, but I have heard many good things about it and I am sure it would be a worthy inclusion on the list.

The Lion King- I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have never really liked this film. There are many Disney films that I loved when I was younger, but this is one I could never really get into to.
Ah, you're lucky, my friend. You'll love Dances With Wolves. A white man, discouraged with the Western life and cold Civil War, volunteers to be stationed alone in S. Dakota. Beautiful big sky SD scenery. Meets native tribe. I don't want to give anything else away. Lovely film.

Wow, you haven't seen Fight Club. You have another huge treat. It's intense philosophy. Knowing your tastes, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Ok, here's the 5 movies I've chosen from the master list that was not in my personal list:

A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
I actually considered this movie for my own list, and very nearly included it, so this is a movie I will definitely back :-)

BACK TO THE FUTURE II
The first movie was in my list, and actually I love all 3 of them, so... I think they're all very creative movies that can be enjoyed by all ages.

LABYRINTH
Assuming that this is the one with David Bowie and not another movie of the same name, this is one that could have been in my top 30. I know a lot of people think it's horrible, but I think it's a great fantasy movie, and again... when I don't watch horror, I tend to like more family oriented movies.

SCHINDLERS LIST
I remember when I first saw this movie, the person who wanted me to see it told me that it was a movie that everyone should watch at least once, but that most people wouldn't want to watch more than once. It's certainly a tough movie to get through, it doesn't exactly make you feel good... but it makes you think, and it is extremely well done in every way.

SUPERMAN
If this is the classic 80s movie, and not some remake, then I will definitely back it. I've watched it many times over the years, and although I will admit that it probably hasn't aged too well, I still think it's a great movie, and it was very well done for it's time.
Loved Superman. It's a warm lovely film. It has aged, but I think now that's become part of it's charm.

Don't know any other film named "labyrinth"... you're probably talking about Pan Labyrinth? I'll see Labyrinth based on your recommendation. I saw clips, and I wasn't big on those types of musicals at the time.

[Sculpt]

I guess I'll (sorta reluctantly) enter the top 100 discussion. Based on some of the past comments, I'm not sure this is the right thread for me. I have a feeling I'm not going enjoy every minute of it. :)

As a head's up, you probably won't ever hear me arguing for a film based on any technical aspect of its makeup, and honestly I don't put a lot of value on those qualities. If the movie makes me think, or makes me feel something, it's on my radar. I won't discredit a film for having a few warts. Flaws are what makes things unique. Obviously I'm not going to praise a film for being a pile of crap, but you won't hear me disqualifying a film because of one element that doesn't meet my particular definition of "good." Like saying Star Wars has too simple a story (it's called melodrama... ever read Shakespere?), or Apocalypse Now feels unresolved (maybe that's... intentional?). My tastes are naturally a bit off-the-beaten-path, so I don't expect everyone (or anyone?) to agree with me, but I do have a strong allergic reaction to the status quo.

So, having said that, here's my next 5. (BTW, I really like the idea roshiq. And, better late than never, "Get better soon, V!!"

Since A Clockwork Orange probably doesn't need my help, I'll hold my vote on that one, but it deserves it. Too sci-fi for many to make the best Horror list (although I disagree), and IMO too horrific to be on the non-horror list.

Since it looks like Once Upon a Time in the West might make it, I'll hold my vote on a different Sergio Leone classic. I chose For a Fistful of Dollars in my top 20, and I prefer the Man with No Name trilogy over the Once...in the West epic, but I would be happy to back For a Few Dollars More or, better yet, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly since it doesn't look like Fistful will get the votes. These films are likely to be poo-pooed by some -- but then again, so are the Bava, Argento and Fulci classics by many critics. They are truly iconic, important and visually beautiful films. Ennio Morricone gave us the score that we now associate with "Westerns." And perhaps most importantly, they essentially invented the anti-hero. All of a sudden John Wayne was a goodie-two-shoes, and no longer the coolest guy on the block. Cinema has never been the same since.

The actual five outside my 20 that I'll back are:

1. Black Swan -- Although I truly consider this a horror film, Arnofsky and Co. did a great job marketing this as non-horror so it would get attention at the Oscars -- so much so that even horror fans believe it. A modern masterpiece in psychological storytelling. Heartbreaking and distressing.

2. Monty Python & The Holy Grail -- No argument is really necessary. If you love it, you love it, and if you don't, you never will. But for a comedy, this film has the most amazingly detailed sets and costumes, and feels extremely gritty for being off-the-wall British slapstick. This film has no peers.

3. The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover -- This film breaks too many rules for most folks, and I wouldn't want to watch it with my mom. But every time I do watch it, I'm left gut-punched for a couple days.

4. The Deer Hunter -- Incredible cast, moving, heartbreaking, epic. A truly impactful drama that is oh so human.

5. Fargo -- I would be fine with any number of Coen Brothers films, but one of them really needs to make the list. I chose O Brother, Where Art Thou?, but that film is a bit niche for a broad range of voters. Fargo has been cherished by quite a few, including myself, and has an endless number of memorable moments. The Coen Bros know how to define and develop unique, but still believable, characters. I personally think The Big Lebowski is a better example of that, but Fargo is probably more respected in a general sense, and a good choice if the Bros only get one.
You make an excellent point that what some hold as a flaw is not only what was intended by the director, but also what others see as a key success.

Let me say upfront, I know the Apocalypse Now ending is "meant" to be unresolved. (War, man's heart, life, Kutz's Society... it can be viewed as absurd, cold and hopelessly unresolvable.) The film ending is famously unresolved and has been debated at length. I can easily accept the unresolve is meant to be, the point, etc. The thing is, many ask, "does it work?" Some say 'no', and some say 'yes'. I know it works in many aspects. But in picking the best films of all-time, the resolution is no small thing. To me the ending isn't it's crowing achievement, but rather an ending that only partly works. I wouldn't vote against it. It's just flawed to me.

Deer Hunter is an excellent and moving film. It was on my Plus20 list.

Black Swan - My expectations outstretched the film. Although it's well done, it was a bit old hat for me (for me, obviously not a common plot). I didn't feel connected and empathetic to Portman's character as I would have liked. And the ending wasn't as satisfying as I hoped.
Actually I very nearly picked O Brother, Where Art Thou as one of my 5 movies... it's one of the most deserving ones on the master list, in my opinion. But I thought like you, that there would be no point because no one else would pick it. I'd be willing to change my 5 movie list, if you want to back it too...
I have to check out O Brother. I've heard very good reviews from folks I really respect.

[neverending]

No, when someone refers to the film Labyrinth, they're not referring to Pan's Labyrinth. They're talking about Jennifer Connelly's film debut, a fun fantasy musical adventure featuring the Muppets (but not the ones you usually see) and David Bowie.

It's an enjoyable romp, but definitely not one of the 100 best films ever made.

[Sculpt]

LABYRINTH
Assuming that this is the one with David Bowie and not another movie of the same name, this is one that could have been in my top 30. I know a lot of people think it's horrible, but I think it's a great fantasy movie, and again... when I don't watch horror, I tend to like more family oriented movies.


Don't know any other film named "labyrinth"... you're probably talking about Pan Labyrinth? I'll see Labyrinth based on your recommendation. I saw clips, and I wasn't big on those types of musicals at the time.

No, when someone refers to the film Labyrinth, they're not referring to Pan's Labyrinth. They're talking about Jennifer Connelly's film debut, a fun fantasy musical adventure featuring the Muppets (but not the ones you usually see) and David Bowie.

It's an enjoyable romp, but definitely not one of the 100 best films ever made.
I was speaking to Kan's referencing another film named "Labyrinth" that isn't the David Bowie Labyrinth. I didn't think there was another film named "Labyrinth", so I'm guessing the second Labyrinth in her mind is Pan's Labyrinth. There was a 2012 TV miniseries called Labyrinth with John Hurt.

[neverending]

I don't believe she was saying there was another film named Labyrinth (though there is), just saying she was assuming the person didn't mean some other non-specified film. It's a fine point not worth niggling over, but I am anyway. ::smile::

[_____V_____]

My mistake - A Clockwork Orange has plenty of horror elements and disturbing scenes, and it already finds representation in a few of our other lists.

The last HDC member to have submitted a list, sfear, included it in his 20 and I couldn't proof-read it before adding his choices to the Master List.

Sent him a PM to send in a replacement. Said film stands removed.

[roshiq]

I guess you were the other person who voted for 12 Angry Men then. ::cool::

Ditto!::smile::

Here is my list:

Twelve Monkeys

The Terminator

Blade Runner


Love all of them but not so convince about The Terminator for the final list.



Now, for films that were in my list, but I would like to bring special attention to.
Duck Soup
Back to the Future
Vertigo
Dumbo
Titanic


Haven't seen Duck Soup & Dumbo, so no comments about them. And from the rest...again, love them but I'd only like to see Vertigo making into the final list.


There's a lot from the Master List I think are worthy. Here's 5 that were in my "more than 20 list" that I like a lot:

Dances With Wolves
Pulp Fiction - Really liked it a lot. But not entirely sure why. There's no subject matter of importance.
The Lion King


Haven't seen Dances with Wolves. Definitely enjoyed it but still not so much convinced about Pulp Fiction for a Top 100 list, not a great fan of it. As you said, I think there's a decent number of viewers out there who still "not entirely sure why" they liked it so much!::confused::

Lion King is undoubtedly a lovely, great film but I think there are better films animated films to get join in the final bunch.

Ok, here's the 5 movies I've chosen from the master list that was not in my personal list:

A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
BACK TO THE FUTURE II
LABYRINTH
SCHINDLERS LIST
SUPERMAN
.

I've already admitted my full support for Clockwork & Shindler's List. Haven't seen Labyrinth. BTTF..more suitable for greatest films of 80s than a list for all time greatest, IMO! I do LOVE Superman...but my opinion is same like BTTF, may be I'd like to keep it for a list of 'Best Superhero Movies' only.


The actual five outside my 20 that I'll back are:

1. Black Swan

2. Monty Python & The Holy Grail
3. The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover
4. The Deer Hunter
5. Fargo

YES for The Cook, The Thief & The Deer Hunter.

Out of the movies that didn't make my top 20, I'll back:

A Christmas Carol (Providing its the one staring Alastair Sim and not some god awful modern remake I haven't yet had the misfortune to watch).
The Grapes of Wrath
Rashomon

.... And what's with 12 Monkey's getting more support than Brazil. Surely if you are going to have a Terry Gilliam movie in the top 100 it has to be Brazil. :shocked:

Haven't seen Grapes but already voted for Rashomon. And ditto about BRAZIL, I won't mind to see it in the top 100.

[roshiq]

My mistake - A Clockwork Orange has plenty of horror elements and disturbing scenes, and it already finds representation in a few of our other lists.

The last HDC member to have submitted a list, sfear, included it in his 20 and I couldn't proof-read it before adding his choices to the Master List.

Sent him a PM to send in a replacement. Said film stands removed.

HA-HA-HA! The only film that generated most number of supports in last few discussions for last 2 days! But yeah...you have a valid point, can't argue about that.

[Kandarian Demon]

Neverending is correct - I have no idea if there are any other movies called Labyrinth, but there could have been. It's not a particularly unique sounding title, and there was no year of release, so... just wanted to make sure it WAS the movie I was thinking of.


It's an enjoyable romp, but definitely not one of the 100 best films ever made.

Honestly, it probably isn't - even if it is a personal favourite of mine. The truth is that there are not a lot of obvious choices for me on the master list.

[Sculpt]

My mistake - A Clockwork Orange has plenty of horror elements and disturbing scenes, and it already finds representation in a few of our other lists.

The last HDC member to have submitted a list, sfear, included it in his 20 and I couldn't proof-read it before adding his choices to the Master List.

Sent him a PM to send in a replacement. Said film stands removed.
FYI - I just checked our 100 Years of Horror, the 1970 list (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=956057&postcount=22) (A Clockwork Orange is 1971), and Clockwork is not in the 1970's list. It's also not in the 1970's Honorable Mentions (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=956088&postcount=38). Being it's one of the best films of all-time (surely one of best in 70's), we obviously must have disallowed it -- said it wasn't a Horror film. And so, if we/HDC disallowed it as a Horror film, you think we should allow it in non-horror, and not let drop through the cracks?

Love all of them but not so convince about The Terminator for the final list.

Haven't seen Duck Soup & Dumbo, so no comments about them. And from the rest...again, love them but I'd only like to see Vertigo making into the final list.

Haven't seen Dances with Wolves. Definitely enjoyed it but still not so much convinced about Pulp Fiction for a Top 100 list, not a great fan of it. As you said, I think there's a decent number of viewers out there who still "not entirely sure why" they liked it so much!::confused::

Lion King is undoubtedly a lovely, great film but I think there are better films animated films to get join in the final bunch.

I've already admitted my full support for Clockwork & Shindler's List. Haven't seen Labyrinth. BTTF..more suitable for greatest films of 80s than a list for all time greatest, IMO! I do LOVE Superman...but my opinion is same like BTTF, may be I'd like to keep it for a list of 'Best Superhero Movies' only.

YES for The Cook, The Thief & The Deer Hunter.

Haven't seen Grapes but already voted for Rashomon. And ditto about BRAZIL, I won't mind to see it in the top 100.
Grapes of Wrath is a glaring hole in my knowledge of films. I have to see it. Duck Soup is a lot of fun. There are many brilliant scenes of humor (the non-mirror is fantastic). Dances with Wolves is like a new world.

Speaking of Loin King, makes me wonder what the best animated films of all-time are. Do you think people discount films that are animated when considering the best films all-time?

[Kandarian Demon]

Grapes of Wrath is a glaring hole in my knowledge of films. I have to see it.

I'm curious about that one too, now. I've googled the book and the film, and none of them seems to be available in my country, so no wonder I haven't heard about them.

[neverending]

Do you think people discount films that are animated when considering the best films all-time?

To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

[_____V_____]

FYI - I just checked our 100 Years of Horror, the 1970 list (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=956057&postcount=22) (A Clockwork Orange is 1971), and Clockwork is not in the 1970's list. It's also not in the 1970's Honorable Mentions (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=956088&postcount=38). Being it's one of the best films of all-time (surely one of best in 70's), we obviously must have disallowed it -- said it wasn't a Horror film. And so, if we/HDC disallowed it as a Horror film, you think we should allow it in non-horror, and not let drop through the cracks?

It's in the 100 Years Of Horror compilation, under "HDC Members Specially Recommend...". Check again.

It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100.

Anyway, sfear has sent in his alternate choice. It's duly added to the Master List posted a few pages back.

[Sculpt]

To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.
I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

[Sculpt]

It's in the 100 Years Of Horror compilation, under "HDC Members Specially Recommend...". Check again.

It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100.

Anyway, sfear has sent in his alternate choice. It's duly added to the Master List posted a few pages back.
You got me really curious now. You're right, V, it is in Special Recommendations. That seemed really strange considering it's on the AFI list of 100 greatest films. I had to check the original debate thread (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=949594&postcount=310). Interesting, A Clockwork Orange is not in the 1970's Master List, and naturally not in the leadoff Summation/debate page. I searched for the name of the film during the collection and discussion/debate posts, and it does not appear (making it unknown how it got in Recommendations).

The reason it wasn't in the 70's master list (the top standard you were using) is the imdb.com genre listings, A Clockwork Orange are listed as: Crime | Drama | Sci-Fi.

Anyway, it's your call, V. Officially, it was not included in our 100 Years of Horror competition. (I never considered it Horror.) I just had to find out what happen to it.

[roshiq]

I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

And no Grave of the Fireflies & Up??!! :shocked:
IMO...If any animated film deserves to be in the Top 100 or its supporting list of honorable mentions, then that should be either GOTF or Up.

FYI...there's an animated film in my submitted Top 20 list.

[The Villain]

To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

Agree with you on Dumbo but not Fantasia or Lion King. Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.

I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

I agree with you on Lion King, Snow White and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Both Lion King and Snow White were big movies for Disney and Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a great story that's become a Halloween classic. I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.

[neverending]

Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.

Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?

[Kandarian Demon]

I don't think Fantasia is overrated either, in my personal opinion it's amazing in every way.

I'm not prejudiced against animated movies, or "family movies" for that matter, which I think I've already mentioned that I have a tendency to prefer when I'm not watching horror.

Movies have the power to touch us in so many ways, to make us feel and think... and I think it's a shame that for a movie to be taken seriously, it has to be dark, pessimistic, dramatic, or have lots of violence and explotions.

And when I say "sad", it's because it's kind of like saying that if a movie can make you feel happy, laugh, remember your inner child/childhood, remind you of your appreciation of your family - that's somehow not valid, and something that should be ridiculed no matter how well the movie was done, or how artful the animation is.

When a dark movie with a negative messages tells a story that is set in an imaginary world, it's a masterpiece - if a happy movie does the same thing, it's just a stupid, unrealistic fairy tale for babies.

The more miserable a movie makes you feel, the greater art it is - or so it seems. Yes, we all know the world is a horrible place... and there are plenty of movies to remind us of that. There is a time and a place for that... but I will never understand why it's so bad, why it can't be art, when a movie has the power to take us away from all of that, just for a little while.

It's the same with music - happy songs are always looked down upon. A song and it's lyrics are just not art unless it tells us about human suffering and makes us want to kill ourselves. How dare anyone be positive and call themselves artists!

I also don't get why artwork is suddenly not art anymore because it "moves".

This post is not directed at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud about something that I'll just never understand.

[metternich1815]

I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

There are alot of films on your list that I really enjoyed, but do not know that I would include on a top 100 list of all time.
To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.
I agree with you on the Lion King because I just never connected with that film. As for Dumbo, I do not know if I would really put it in the top 100 movies of all time, but I do think it is one of the best animated films and I actually watched it after I was a child. It is a classic with an excellent exploration of racism. As for Fantasia, I agree with you and I will agree that that film is definitely more deserving to be on the list. It is not overrated by any stretch of the imagination. I could definitely get on board with that film.

Agree with you on Dumbo but not Fantasia or Lion King. Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.



I agree with you on Lion King, Snow White and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Both Lion King and Snow White were big movies for Disney and Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a great story that's become a Halloween classic. I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.
I disagree with you on Dumbo, the Lion King, and Fantasia, as discussed above. I agree with you on Snow White (I even mentioned that when I made recommendations, that I thought it was definitely worthy of inclusion as well). I have not seen Legend of Sleepy Hollow (wasn't that included on the horror list?) or Toy Story 3. I agree that Nightmare Before Christmas was good, I do not know if I would include it on this list though.

[The Villain]

Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?

Yeah i might be being a little unfair. I was really young when i saw it and unable to appreciate works of art like that. I would've hated some of the silent movies as a kid that i love know. I think i'd have to rewatch it before making more of a opinion about it. I'll have to do that with a lot of films were talking about.

[Sculpt]

Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?
Well said, Neverending. I need to see Fantasia as a full adult now. We know animation (and special effects that very like it) is sometimes required to convey concepts, illustrations & worlds. The Neverending Story hit me in the heart & head with it's concept of nothing, devotion & love. If you haven't seen it, or in a long time, The Yellow Submarine plays the concept of nothing, compassion, devotion & love.

And no Grave of the Fireflies & Up??!! :shocked:
IMO...If any animated film deserves to be in the Top 100 or its supporting list of honorable mentions, then that should be either GOTF or Up.

FYI...there's an animated film in my submitted Top 20 list.
There are other animated films I think are really good that I didn't list (Nightmare Before Christmas, Toy Stories, Ninja Scroll, Beauty Beast, ect), I didn't want to make the list too big. I enjoyed UP, but more intrigued by GOTF.

Thank you for mentioning Grave of the Fireflies! I never heard of it. It'll be my next film to watch -- and hope you join me and let yourself get blown away by Yellow Submarine.


Yeah i might be being a little unfair. I was really young when i saw it and unable to appreciate works of art like that. I would've hated some of the silent movies as a kid that i love know. I think i'd have to rewatch it before making more of a opinion about it. I'll have to do that with a lot of films were talking about.
.................................................. .............................
I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.
You're right, Villain. I was too young when I saw Fantasia. I need to see it again.

And I know what you mean about special animated films that have dove down deep to strike a enveloping emotional response that resonates to everything. If you haven't seen Yellow Submarine as an adult, open a door to this pure art of love.

I don't think Fantasia is overrated either, in my personal opinion it's amazing in every way.

I'm not prejudiced against animated movies, or "family movies" for that matter, which I think I've already mentioned that I have a tendency to prefer when I'm not watching horror.

Movies have the power to touch us in so many ways, to make us feel and think... and I think it's a shame that for a movie to be taken seriously, it has to be dark, pessimistic, dramatic, or have lots of violence and explosions.

And when I say "sad", it's because it's kind of like saying that if a movie can make you feel happy, laugh, remember your inner child/childhood, remind you of your appreciation of your family - that's somehow not valid, and something that should be ridiculed no matter how well the movie was done, or how artful the animation is.

When a dark movie with a negative messages tells a story that is set in an imaginary world, it's a masterpiece - if a happy movie does the same thing, it's just a stupid, unrealistic fairy tale for babies.

The more miserable a movie makes you feel, the greater art it is - or so it seems. Yes, we all know the world is a horrible place... and there are plenty of movies to remind us of that. There is a time and a place for that... but I will never understand why it's so bad, why it can't be art, when a movie has the power to take us away from all of that, just for a little while.

It's the same with music - happy songs are always looked down upon. A song and it's lyrics are just not art unless it tells us about human suffering and makes us want to kill ourselves. How dare anyone be positive and call themselves artists!

I also don't get why artwork is suddenly not art anymore because it "moves".

This post is not directed at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud about something that I'll just never understand.
Wow, Kan, you nailed it, and said so well. It's true, why do we promote the dark hopeless nihilism as high art and discredit the great tellings of the more difficult art of: opening up to risk, the work of deeply understanding concepts/people we find ourselves uncomfortable/fractious with, endevears of self sacrifice and love? (Have you seen Yellow Sub as an adult?) ::wink::

As for Dumbo, I do not know if I would really put it in the top 100 movies of all time, but I do think it is one of the best animated films and I actually watched it after I was a child. It is a classic with an excellent exploration of racism. As for Fantasia, I agree with you and I will agree that that film is definitely more deserving to be on the list. It is not overrated by any stretch of the imagination. I could definitely get on board with that film.

I agree with you on Snow White (I even mentioned that when I made recommendations, that I thought it was definitely worthy of inclusion as well). I have not seen Legend of Sleepy Hollow (wasn't that included on the horror list?) or Toy Story 3.
Dumbo is a very unique film and story. I love "Elephants on Parade". I've used that on my radio show with extra effects, very trippy.

The Legend of Sleepy Hollow is beautiful, a lot of fun and actually scary. Narration by Basil Rathbone and Bing Crosby. It's about 30 mins. I'm sure you can figure out a way to see it. It was originally the 2nd story in the film The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad.

Mett, if you've read reply so far, I hate to sound like a broken record, but the intellectual concepts, symbolism, imagery in Yellow Submarine are fantastic. Classic psychedelic art, and moving message. If you haven't seen it (as adult), I recommend higher than any film.

[Giganticface]

You got me really curious now. You're right, V, it is in Special Recommendations. That seemed really strange considering it's on the AFI list of 100 greatest films. I had to check the original debate thread (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=949594&postcount=310). Interesting, A Clockwork Orange is not in the 1970's Master List, and naturally not in the leadoff Summation/debate page. I searched for the name of the film during the collection and discussion/debate posts, and it does not appear (making it unknown how it got in Recommendations).

The reason it wasn't in the 70's master list (the top standard you were using) is the imdb.com genre listings, A Clockwork Orange are listed as: Crime | Drama | Sci-Fi.

Anyway, it's your call, V. Officially, it was not included in our 100 Years of Horror competition. (I never considered it Horror.) I just had to find out what happen to it.

http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=948744&postcount=269

Complete with pictures :)

[Sculpt]

http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=948744&postcount=269

Complete with pictures :)
Thanks, Gigan, I was pretty sure that was in there somewhere.

I'd also like to vote for adding A Clockwork Orange to the list.

All debatable entries for the horror genre. But I leave this open for discussion. If enough are in favor, they will be merged into the list.
Nobody supported Clockwork for inclusion. And it wasn't in the 1970 Master List. Film genre stepchild. ::wink::
Case closed.

[neverending]

You keep overlooking (purposely?) this part of V's statement on Clockwork Orange:

It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100.

It's already in one of our horror lists, and therefore is eliminated from consideration in this compilation. Can we move on now?

[Giganticface]

I didn't get the impression he was trying to belabor the point. "Case closed."

Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of great films that won't get the recognition they deserve on our lists because they're not quite horror. Requiem for a Dream, Memento, Donnie Darko. Hey, I propose that as an idea for our next list: The Top N Not Quite Horror Movies.

(I'm guessing Requiem is on the "Disturbing" list at least.)

[_____V_____]

So, let's pick up from where we left this...

Now that the Master List (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=971125&postcount=141) is posted and everyone has had ample time to study the films on it, let's go back to those which saw the most number of nominations:-

The SIX films with FIVE or more nominations (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=971026&postcount=111) each, and
the SEVEN films with FOUR nominations (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=971087&postcount=128).

All in favor of including?

Objections, if any?

[Sculpt]

Im in favor/approve of all we've picked so far.

[neverending]

Meh. I'm sick. I'm not up to the battle, and I'm losing what precious little writing time I have.

I'm out.

[roshiq]

I've shared my thoughts, let's move on.

Meh. I'm sick. I'm not up to the battle, and I'm losing what precious little writing time I have.

I'm out.

Get well soon, Lee.

[The Villain]

I'm in favor

[realdealblues]

The only one out of the list of 4 and 5 vote getters that I don't care for is The Matrix...it's not even close to my top 100.

I also think there are a lot better Westerns than Once Upon A Time In The West...

I'd probably neg vote those...but I'm sure I would be outvoted or overruled by others.

[Straker]

I still don't see how The Matrix belongs in the top 100 films of all time, so I'm going to neg vote it too.

Meh. I'm sick. I'm not up to the battle, and I'm losing what precious little writing time I have.

I'm out.

Hope you get a bit of time for this thread when you're feeling better.... But don't let things get in the way of your health, or your writing. Get well soon, Lee.

[Giganticface]

I'm fine with all of then. It does seem a bit early to be talking about The Matrix in the first 10 or 12 films, but I have a feeling once we get down to the 80th and 90th, it's going to look just fine.

[Despare]

I'm all for moving forward, the first Matrix movie was groundbreaking (wasn't on my list though) and changed the way sci-fi movies were received by a general audience. I think it also lent a lot to the shooting of film, especially action films in the future.

[metternich1815]

I didn't get the impression he was trying to belabor the point. "Case closed."

Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of great films that won't get the recognition they deserve on our lists because they're not quite horror. Requiem for a Dream, Memento, Donnie Darko. Hey, I propose that as an idea for our next list: The Top N Not Quite Horror Movies.

(I'm guessing Requiem is on the "Disturbing" list at least.)

V counted Donnie Darko as horror or it definitely would have made my list. An absolutely beautiful film.

So, let's pick up from where we left this...

Now that the Master List (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=971125&postcount=141) is posted and everyone has had ample time to study the films on it, let's go back to those which saw the most number of nominations:-

The SIX films with FIVE or more nominations (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=971026&postcount=111) each, and
the SEVEN films with FOUR nominations (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php?p=971087&postcount=128).

All in favor of including?

Objections, if any?

I agree with the films. The Matrix, without a doubt, belongs on the list. Maybe there are some flaws in the story, but it does not really matter. It is an all-around amazing film anyway. I am surprised by the hate it has received here.

[Sculpt]

...
... seem a bit early to be talking about The Matrix in the first 10 or 12 films, but I have a feeling once we get down to the 80th and 90th, it's going to look just fine.

Good point. At this mark, maybe a film is not on your radar for your top 20, or even your personal top 40, but we're talking about 100. Out of 17 of us, these are the films most agreed upon by the group as a whole. There's going to be an awful lot of films with only 1 vote, with some 60 slots to fill.

Like realdealblues, I personally don't see Once Upon a Time in the West as top 100, but while the story didn't strike me, I can appreciate the film's other qualities -- As one of our members (whom I hope is feeling better soon) said earlier in this thread, "Can't we appreciate a film for it's artistry?". Plus, I understand I'm in the minority with Once Upon a Time's appreciation; but that's OK, people are different, and we're using the benefit of the group.

Personally, The Matrix is decidedly in my top 20 for sci-fi story depth & passion, & technical mastery in cinematography, sound, set, costume, FX, martial arts, etc.

[Giganticface]

V counted Donnie Darko as horror or it definitely would have made my list. An absolutely beautiful film.

True, but back when we did 100 Years of Horror, it wasn't on the Master List. Interestingly though, the cheesy sequel was.


Like realdealblues, I personally don't see Once Upon a Time in the West as top 100, but while the story didn't strike me, I can appreciate the film's other qualities -- As one of our members (whom I hope is feeling better soon) said earlier in this thread, "Can't we appreciate a film for it's artistry?". Plus, I understand I'm in the minority with Once Upon a Time's appreciation; but that's OK, people are different, and we're using the benefit of the group.


I'd rather any of the of the Man With No Name films makes the list.

[_____V_____]

6 are in favor of all films, while 2 have objected to The Matrix and one objection for Once Upon A Time In The West.

I say we put both afore-mentioned films in the backburner (for now) and come back to them when we are debating for the final few slots.

We still have a base of ELEVEN films upon which to build upon, so let's move ahead to the films with THREE nominations each.



The third set of films, which have scored THREE nominations, are:-


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ot2G-5GmL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51C5-TQDBML._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BvCKA2DwL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51TKByaM7RL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/517PS80V2PL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/518356GQPGL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pOI-9mKEL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51pJoIlXFbL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51j6TWu8VSL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qRXPQlcnL._SY300_.jpg


(Continued...)

[_____V_____]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512slYorUeL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512CJZQA58L._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51d17yMqhVL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WWerqog4L._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51G228TYRYL._SY300_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Ekc2obPNL._SY300_.jpg


Arguments/objections for/against, if any?

[The Villain]

Monty Python and The Holy Grail is hilarious but I wouldn't call it one of the greatest films ever made. I wouldn't include that one.

[Sculpt]

I really like all those films. So I support passing them all for top 100 films.

Monty Python and The Holy Grail is hilarious but I wouldn't call it one of the greatest films ever made. I wouldn't include that one.
I think I know where you're coming from. Holy Grail wasn't on my radar, but yet I quote it and Spinal Tap, and play their audio clips on my radio show often. There's a reason for that. They are at the top of humor film making art form.

Terminator, Back to the Future, Die Hard, and even 12 & a Half Monkeys, Private Ryan, Titanic were not on my radar for best 100 films, either. But reflecting back, I can acknowledge a case for each.

[Giganticface]

All worthy, no objections.

[roshiq]

Dog Day Afternoon
One Flew over...
To Kill A mocking Bird
Vertigo
Saving Pvt. Ryan
12 Monkeys

Definitely the above six are worthy for the Top 100 but I'm not so sure about the rest.

[The Villain]

I really like all those films. So I support passing them all for top 100 films.


I think I know where you're coming from. Holy Grail wasn't on my radar, but yet I quote it and Spinal Tap, and play their audio clips on my radio show often. There's a reason for that. They are at the top of humor film making art form.


Just personally speaking I wouldn't count a film as one of the best ever just because its funny and quotable

[metternich1815]

I would be okay with all those choices, though I am not familiar with Dog Day Afternoon.

[realdealblues]

I personally would neg vote:

Dog Day Afternoon
Edward Scissorhands
Pulp Fiction
Saving Private Ryan
The Terminator
12 Monkeys

Good movies but not Top 100 for me.

[The Villain]

I personally would neg vote:

Dog Day Afternoon
Edward Scissorhands
Pulp Fiction
Saving Private Ryan
The Terminator
12 Monkeys

Good movies but not Top 100 for me.

Edward Scissorhands maybe not but Terminator is one of the best sci fi action movies and Saving Private Ryan is one of the best war movies ever and an extremely emotional and fantastically shot film.

Pulp Fiction was a whole new way of filmmaking and launched Tarantino's career pretty much.

Never seen Dog Day Afternoon or 12 Monkeys so can't comment on those

[realdealblues]

Edward Scissorhands maybe not but Terminator is one of the best sci fi action movies and Saving Private Ryan is one of the best war movies ever and an extremely emotional and fantastically shot film.

Pulp Fiction was a whole new way of filmmaking and launched Tarantino's career pretty much.

Never seen Dog Day Afternoon or 12 Monkeys so can't comment on those

Terminator was good, I always liked the gritty feel and the story and if this were a Top 100 of Sci-Fi films, it would be in there, but Top 100 from all genre's, I can't do.

Saving Private Ryan was good for the first 20 minutes in showing what combat is like, but after that I don't feel it offered anything. Come And See or Das Boot were far better War movies. Kubrick's Paths Of Glory & Full Metal Jacket gave us something completely different and I would pick both over Saving Private Ryan.

Pulp Fiction definitely launched Tarantino into the limelight and it was indeed a different style of film, but it doesn't stand as a "great" film to me. Tarantino has done far better and there are plenty of other films that pushed into new boundaries that stand out better as films in my mind.

[The Villain]

Terminator was good, I always liked the gritty feel and the story and if this were a Top 100 of Sci-Fi films, it would be in there, but Top 100 from all genre's, I can't do.

Saving Private Ryan was good for the first 20 minutes in showing what combat is like, but after that I don't feel it offered anything. Come And See or Das Boot were far better War movies. Kubrick's Paths Of Glory & Full Metal Jacket gave us something completely different and I would pick both over Saving Private Ryan.

Pulp Fiction definitely launched Tarantino into the limelight and it was indeed a different style of film, but it doesn't stand as a "great" film to me. Tarantino has done far better and there are plenty of other films that pushed into new boundaries that stand out better as films in my mind.

Well we don't have to pick just one to represent a genre or filmmaker. Saving Private Ryan showed us the emotional toil that war took on the soldiers. Not a lot of war movies do that as well as it did.

[_____V_____]

Saving Private Ryan showed us the emotional toil that war took on the soldiers. Not a lot of war movies do that as well as it did.

I would say Platoon did that at a much more raw, edgy, disturbing and hard-hitting level than Saving Private Ryan.

[realdealblues]

Well we don't have to pick just one to represent a genre or filmmaker. Saving Private Ryan showed us the emotional toil that war took on the soldiers. Not a lot of war movies do that as well as it did.

See, I didn't get that at all from Saving Private Ryan. It felt like the bubble gum version compared to something like The Deer Hunter.

I would say Platoon did that at a much more raw, edgy, disturbing and hard-hitting level than Saving Private Ryan.

Platoon I could see being in a Top 100.

[The Villain]

I would say Platoon did that at a much more raw, edgy, disturbing and hard-hitting level than Saving Private Ryan.

See, I didn't get that at all from Saving Private Ryan. It felt like the bubble gum version compared to something like The Deer Hunter.



Platoon I could see being in a Top 100.

Platoon and Deer Hunter did it in a dark disturbing way while Saving Privaye Ryan did it in an emotional heartfelt way. It doesn't really make sense to compare.

I would add Platoon in the list as well

[realdealblues]

Platoon and Deer Hunter did it in a dark disturbing way while Saving Privaye Ryan did it in an emotional heartfelt way. It doesn't really make sense to compare.

I would add Platoon in the list as well

If we're talking about the emotional toll from war I guess I would rather see it for what it is and at a deeper level. Saving Private Ryan is more about survivor's guilt. These men died and he lived. Now he has to live with that and wonder if he was good enough to be worth the sacrifice? That's not an emotion exclusive to war and I think there are better films that can make that same point.

[The Villain]

If we're talking about the emotional toll from war I guess I would rather see it for what it is and at a deeper level. Saving Private Ryan is more about survivor's guilt. These men died and he lived. Now he has to live with that and wonder if he was good enough to be worth the sacrifice? That's not an emotion exclusive to war and I think there are better films that can make that same point.

It wasn't just survivors guilt. You saw and felt what the soldiers were going through during the war not just afterwards.

[Straker]

I'm neg voting the following films:

Back to the Future: Classic example of what the honourable mentions list is for. A nostalgic classic that really only resonates with people, like me, who grew up with it, but has no place in the best 100 films ever made.

Die Hard: Would be straight into my top 100 80s action movies without question. Somewhere between Bloodsport and Action Jackson....

Johnny Depp has scissors: Nope.

The Terminator: Awesome movie, love the fact that it basically plays out like a 90 minute chase scene, but its not good enough to be considered one of the best 100 movies of all time.

Titanic: Overproduced nonsense... Hell, its not even the best Titanic movie.

12 Monkeys: Its not as impressive or awe inspiring as Brazil, so I cant vote it in until Brazil makes the cut.

There are a few other movies that wouldn't make my top 100, but I wouldn't necessarily neg vote them. Movies like Gone with the Wind, well there are just better examples of romance out there, but its so far above some of the dreck that's in the running that I just cant vote against .

[metternich1815]

I personally would neg vote:

Dog Day Afternoon
Edward Scissorhands
Pulp Fiction
Saving Private Ryan
The Terminator
12 Monkeys

Good movies but not Top 100 for me.

I have never seen Dog Day Afternoon, so I cannot comment on it.

I liked Edward Scissorhands, but I do not think it belongs on this top 100 list. Honestly, I would put it under horror anyway, specifically horror comedy.

Pulp Fiction I will have to strongly disagree with. That film is, in my opinion, one of the greatest films from a phenomenal director. The non-linear narrative was very well done and it seemed to fit really well. There were some really amazing performances by some really A-list actors. Each of them brought something different to the film that really enhanced it. Samuel L. Jackson probably being the one that stands out the most. Also, an interesting cameo by Christopher Walken. Related to all this, the film was brilliantly directed by Tarantino. There is no doubt that this film deserves a place on the top 100.

As for Saving Private Ryan, I do not feel one way or another. It would not bother me if it made the list or not. I could understand the case for it either way.

The Terminator definitely deserves a place on the list. It is an absolute science fiction classic. It is practically a pop culture phenomenon. The story was really interesting. I loved how it combined elements of advanced artificial intelligence and time travel. In fact, today when most people think of AI running amok today, this film immediately comes to mind. One thing I particularly enjoyed in the story was the message on fate. It was beautifully done in that regard. Sadly, Cameron abandoned that for his second film, which s unfortunate because that was one of the best elements of the original. And, the score was one of the greatest in movie history, in my opinion. It was beautiful, while also appropriately dark matching the film wonderfully. The Terminator definitely deserves a place.

I will have to strongly disagree on 12 Monkeys. I think it is absolutely brilliant. Similar to the previous film it played with the concept of fate. In fact, that was a major theme of the film. It explored that topic even better and more thoroughly than the Terminator. There were some terrific performances in this film as well. Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt were especially compelling. Another aspect of the film I enjoyed was that you could not figure out, until later, whether the main character was insane or if this was really true. This was further compounded by his stay in a mental institution. That part of the film was particularly interesting. Even the music had an unsettling, mental illness feel to it. This film is definitely a worthy addition to the list. In all honesty, I would put it pretty high up.

I'm neg voting the following films:

Back to the Future: Classic example of what the honourable mentions list is for. A nostalgic classic that really only resonates with people, like me, who grew up with it, but has no place in the best 100 films ever made.

Die Hard: Would be straight into my top 100 80s action movies without question. Somewhere between Bloodsport and Action Jackson....

Johnny Depp has scissors: Nope.

The Terminator: Awesome movie, love the fact that it basically plays out like a 90 minute chase scene, but its not good enough to be considered one of the best 100 movies of all time.

Titanic: Overproduced nonsense... Hell, its not even the best Titanic movie.

12 Monkeys: Its not as impressive or awe inspiring as Brazil, so I cant vote it in until Brazil makes the cut.

There are a few other movies that wouldn't make my top 100, but I wouldn't necessarily neg vote them. Movies like Gone with the Wind, well there are just better examples of romance out there, but its so far above some of the dreck that's in the running that I just cant vote against .

I will have to disagree on Back to the Future. I think there is much more to the film than nostalgia. The film is genuinely a good film. You just have to take it the right way. It is intended as a parody and satire of the 1950s in all ways. One such way is through its ridiculous science fiction plot, which is making fun of similarly ridiculous plots in those films. Further there were some excellent performances by Christopher Lloyd, who played the "crazy" scientist archetype perfectly and Michael J. Fox who played the hero archetype perfectly as well. The music in the film complemented the film quite well as well. I will agree with you that it should be further back on the list, I just disagree it should not be on the list.

I would put Die Hard on this list just to ensure that there is some action represented. In my opinion, there are not many action films that I consider being that great. Die Hard is one of the few that could possibly qualify. Though it seems that you have a much lower opinion of it than me.

Edward Scissorhands (See Above)

As for Titanic. I do not feel like rewriting my previous comments, so I will re-post what I said before. I will just add I strongly disagree it is not the best Titanic film. It definitely is by far. A Night to Remember is good, but it is nowhere near as good or as accurate as Cameron's Titanic

Here were my original comments:
"I know many will disagree with me, but, other than the clichéd romance, this really is an amazing film. I love Cameron's direction, it really draws one in. Even though the romance is a little unoriginal, there is something about it that makes it more interesting than it should be. The film is also an incredibly accurate vision of sailing and sinking of that great ocean liner. In fact, it is probably the most accurate vision. Throughout the film, there are many references to the time its set, which make it appear more realistic. On that note, the film is visually stunning and contains some of the best historical costumes of a period piece, in my opinion. The music that accompanies the film is absolutely beautiful as well. It complements the film perfectly. A year or two ago they re-released the film in 3-D and, I have to say, that was some of the best 3-D I have ever seen. Sorry, for the long defense on this one, it is just this film receives more hate than I think it should, so I wanted to preemptively protect it."

12 Monkeys (See Above), though I add that I have not seen Brazil, but no matter how good that is, that is no reason to no include this film, in my opinion. If a film is good, it's good, regardless to other films that were made.

[_____V_____]

Well, seems like only 3 films are getting universally accepted from this batch - One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, To Kill A Mockingbird & Vertigo.

Safe to assume they stay chosen, in that case our chosen list of films rises to FOURTEEN.

Let's see some more debating on the rest from this batch, before we finalise any from them.

[roshiq]

I would say Platoon did that at a much more raw, edgy, disturbing and hard-hitting level than Saving Private Ryan.


Terminator was good, I always liked the gritty feel and the story and if this were a Top 100 of Sci-Fi films, it would be in there, but Top 100 from all genre's, I can't do.

Saving Private Ryan was good for the first 20 minutes in showing what combat is like, but after that I don't feel it offered anything. Come And See or Das Boot were far better War movies. Kubrick's Paths Of Glory & Full Metal Jacket gave us something completely different and I would pick both over Saving Private Ryan.

Pulp Fiction definitely launched Tarantino into the limelight and it was indeed a different style of film, but it doesn't stand as a "great" film to me. Tarantino has done far better and there are plenty of other films that pushed into new boundaries that stand out better as films in my mind.


Ditto & Ditto!

[Straker]

We have 14 or so movies in the list and we are talking about some really ordinary movies like they belong in that elite bracket. I feel like I'm so far removed from the debate at this point that all I'm going to be doing is ragging on peoples favourite films and that's not something I want to do. Its a shame that so many of the amazing movies on our masters list aren't going to get a look in, when compared to some of the flicks with strong support at this early stage, but that's the nature of these types of list I guess.

[The Villain]

I was under the impression that we would be going over the list again after the initial vote so even if we push a film through now it doesn't mean it'll actually make the list right?

[Sculpt]

Gak... this is going to be worse than I thought. ::big grin::

We have 14 or so movies in the list and we are talking about some really ordinary movies like they belong in that elite bracket. I feel like I'm so far removed from the debate at this point that all I'm going to be doing is ragging on peoples favourite films and that's not something I want to do. Its a shame that so many of the amazing movies on our masters list aren't going to get a look in, when compared to some of the flicks with strong support at this early stage, but that's the nature of these types of list I guess.
Hang in there, Straker. We're doing 100 films, and in the process the other films will be looked at. There's no sense getting pissed off about films in the list you think are better than these -- simply because we haven't got to them yet.

I say this to hopefully put you in the most lucid state of mind in order to fully ENJOY this: you have to realise it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE that every film our group of 17 people choose will be films you personally think should be in the top 100 films. Because that would just be your list. The reality is 75% of the films will not be what you'd appraise for 100 films. That's an accurate estimation, wouldn't you agree? This is an easychair exercise of fun when you do it with 17 other folks. ::cool::


Just personally speaking I wouldn't count a film as one of the best ever just because its funny and quotable
Just to be clear, I didn't select either of those films. And I'm not saying they are worthy only because they are funny or quotable. I was referring to the expertise in comedy film - encompassing the camera angles/movements/compesition, lighting, actors body/facial movements, sets, costumes; story build, flow & execution, & character development.


I'm neg voting the following films:
Johnny Depp has scissors: Nope.
Your specific description, or lack there of, has me curious... did you see Edward Sissorhands in it's entirety? I hope none of us neg films we haven't seen.

Edward Sissorhands
None of the films on my Top 20 List are merely personal favorites. I hope none of us makes that dismissive assumption of eachothers' picks, embracing diversity of appreciation instead. But let me start from not my opinion:

RottenTomatoes.com
Critics Rating: 91% (54 reviews), Audience: 91% (1,027,618 ratings)
Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy & Horror Films: (Saturn)
Won: Best Fantasy Film
Won: Best Supporting Actor: Alan Arkin
Won: Best Actress: Winona Ryder
Nominated: Best Supporting Actress, Dianne Wiest
Nominated: Best Music, Danny Elfman
Nominated: Best Costumes
Hugo Awards:
Best Dramatic Presentation
Sant Jordi Awards (Spain)
Best Foreign Film
Best Foreign Actress: Winona Ryder
Grammy Awards
Nominated: Best Instrumental Composition Written for a Motion Picture
British Academy Film Awards
Won: Best Production Design
Won: Best Costume Design
Nominated: Best Special Visual Effects
Nominated: Makeup
Oscars
Nominated: Best Makeup
Golden Globes
Best Comedy Actor: Johnny Depp
New York Film Critics Circle Awards
Best Cinematographer: 3rd place

And my opinion... Edward Sissorhands is the best Romantic film of the last 25 years. That's Romantic, as in Romanticism the art form: intense emotion as an authentic source of aesthetic experience: apprehension, horror, awe, spontaneity, the exotic, passion and love.

Edward Sissorhands: created another world, dealt with conformity, the human tragedy of being different & society's enmity to it, the vulnerability of being an artist, alagories to Frankenstein, Creation, the Christ, etc. Elite technical artistry in cinematography, direction and music; beautiful and deeply moving story.

[Giganticface]

Great points, Sculpt.

And I agree, this going to be worse than I thought. It's pretty bad when someone negative votes six well-respected films, simply because they're "not Top 100 for me." (Note, I'm not referring to Straker.)

I'm pretty sure I'm out on this one.

[roshiq]

Gak... this is going to be worse than I thought. ::big grin::

Hang in there, Straker. We're doing 100 films, and in the process the other films will be looked at. There's no sense getting pissed off about films in the list you think are better than these -- simply because we haven't got to them yet.

I say this to hopefully put you in the most lucid state of mind in order to fully ENJOY this: you have to realise it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE that every film our group of 17 people choose will be films you personally think should be in the top 100 films. Because that would just be your list. The reality is 75% of the films will not be what you'd appraise for 100 films. That's an accurate estimation, wouldn't you agree? This is an easychair exercise of fun when you do it with 17 other folks. ::cool::


I think what Straker is saying here is 100 is a limited number when there are actually so many deserving candidates out there in considering not only American but world cinema as a whole. Any ardent movie fan may get frustrated while be a part of such wonderful & massive project & when he or she sees some 'great' movies have initially started to filling the spots in final/top 100 when there's still a big number of 'greater or greatest' movies (& which is also more than hundreds) are still left/waiting for consideration; moreover, plenty of them even failed to get a single nomination in the initial voting process.

But yeah...I agree with you, Sculpt that it's actually or literally impossible to satisfy everyone while we're conducting this kind of compilation with a range of people with different tastes in movies. There's not a single "Top/Best..." movie list ever created that made everyone happy, IMO.

Btw, have you guys played on flickchart (http://www.flickchart.com/Splash.aspx?return=%2f)? Ranking your own movie list by choosing between a choice of 2... it's a great time-killer! ::big grin::

[_____V_____]

Before everyone jumps ship, let's just take a tally for the 13 films in debate right now.

Objections have come from:

Back To The Future - 3 (roshiq, Straker)
Die Hard - 3 (roshiq, Straker)
Dog Day Afternoon - 3 (realdealblues)
Edward Scissorhands - 3 (roshiq, realdealblues, Straker)
Gone With The Wind - 3 (roshiq)
It's a Wonderful Life - 3 (roshiq)
Monty Python & The Holy Grail - 3 (The Villain)
Pulp Fiction - 3 (roshiq, realdealblues)
Saving Private Ryan - 3 (realdealblues)
The Empire Strikes Back - 3 (roshiq)
The Terminator - 3 (roshiq, realdealblues, Straker)
Titanic - 3 (roshiq, Straker)
Twelve Monkeys - 3 (realdealblues, Straker)

Approval for all films: Sculpt, Giganticface, metternich1815.

Since all other methods seem to be failing and we are running in circles, let me try my "easy-peasy" elimination method here...

All films have 3 nominations each, and all see approval from 3 members, so that's SIX per film. Now, taking objections into account, we are left with:

Back To The Future - 4
Die Hard - 4
Dog Day Afternoon - 5
Edward Scissorhands - 3
Gone With The Wind - 5
It's a Wonderful Life - 5
Monty Python & The Holy Grail - 5
Pulp Fiction - 4
Saving Private Ryan - 5
The Empire Strikes Back - 5
The Terminator - 3
Titanic - 4
Twelve Monkeys - 4


So, filtering further, we have SIX more films with at least 5 overall thumbs-ups, so I am moving them into the final compilation. That will take our overall tally to 20.

We are left with SEVEN films with 4 or less overall thumbs-ups, so I am moving them into the backburner with the other TWO films from the previous set (Matrix & Once Upon A Time In The West) for debate later.

We are still left with 80 spots to fill, from the 2-nominations and single nominations section. And of course, we have 25 Honorable Mention spots up for grabs as well. So that's 105 spots left to fill, from a residual list of 208 films.

Pretty good ratio, don't you all agree?

So the ones who move on to the final list are - Dog Day Afternoon, Gone With The Wind, It's A Wonderful Life, Monty Python & The Holy Grail, Saving Private Ryan and The Empire Strikes Back.

Films moved to the backburner are - Back To The Future, Die Hard, Edward Scissorhands, Pulp Fiction, The Terminator, Titanic and Twelve Monkeys.

We shall go through the films with 2 nominations later today.

[roshiq]

So the ones who move on to the final list are - Dog Day Afternoon, Gone With The Wind, It's A Wonderful Life, Monty Python & The Holy Grail, Saving Private Ryan and The Empire Strikes Back.

Films moved to the backburner are - Back To The Future, Die Hard, Edward Scissorhands, Pulp Fiction, The Terminator, Titanic and Twelve Monkeys..

hehehe...so I'm the one with highest number of objections::embarrassment::

Anyway, I'm good with V's final selections above, glad DDA made it to the Top 100. Let's move on...::cool::

[realdealblues]

Great points, Sculpt.

And I agree, this going to be worse than I thought. It's pretty bad when someone negative votes six well-respected films, simply because they're "not Top 100 for me." (Note, I'm not referring to Straker.)

I'm pretty sure I'm out on this one.

So, someone isn't allowed to disagree with something just because it's well-respected?

I disagreed with George W. Bush's Policies even though he was President of the United States and well respected by lots of other people. Are you saying I should have voted for him anyway, even though many of his ideals went against everything I held as being "good criteria" as a leader?

Come on...

I realize I'm in the minority on most things and that's fine. I disagree with many of AFI's top movie picks. I disagree with Roger Ebert all the time. Who cares?

I didn't get any sense of emotion from Saving Private Ryan, I thought it was boring and dull and overrated. I probably won't ever watch it again. Travis obviously felt it was an emotional story and enjoyed it. Good for him. Neither of us are alone in our beliefs and I don't think any differently about Travis. We just disagree on what we saw in the movie. So what? That's what makes the world go round and helps give it it's diversity. Different strokes for different folks.

V says the movie is in. I'm not taking my ball and going home. Whatever makes it in, makes it in. I still get to express my opinion, as do you, and Sculpt and Straker and Roshiq and anyone else who wants to vote on an open forum. The majority is going to rule in the end anyway.

[The Villain]

So, someone isn't allowed to disagree with something just because it's well-respected?

I disagreed with George W. Bush's Policies even though he was President of the United States and well respected by lots of other people. Are you saying I should have voted for him anyway, even though many of his ideals went against everything I held as being "good criteria" as a leader?

Come on...

I realize I'm in the minority on most things and that's fine. I disagree with many of AFI's top movie picks. I disagree with Roger Ebert all the time. Who cares?

I didn't get any sense of emotion from Saving Private Ryan, I thought it was boring and dull and overrated. I probably won't ever watch it again. Travis obviously felt it was an emotional story and enjoyed it. Good for him. Neither of us are alone in our beliefs and I don't think any differently about Travis. We just disagree on what we saw in the movie. So what? That's what makes the world go round.

V says the movie is in. I'm not taking my ball and going home. Whatever makes it in, makes it in. I still get to express my opinion, as do you, and Sculpt and Straker and Roshiq and anyone else who wants to vote on an open forum. The majority is going to rule in the end anyway.

Exactly. The whole point of this is to create conversation and debate. Were all going to argue over our choices. I don't care if someone neg votes a movie I think belongs in but I'm also going to argue my point for the movie and I'm not gonna get upset if people disagree with me or my movie doesn't get in. As long as nobody's being insulting and offensive There's no reason for anyone to get upset.

[realdealblues]

Exactly. The whole point of this is to create conversation and debate. Were all going to argue over our choices. I don't care if someone neg votes a movie I think belongs in but I'm also going to argue my point for the movie and I'm not gonna get upset if people disagree with me or my movie doesn't get in. As long as nobody's being insulting and offensive There's no reason for anyone to get upset.

See...still friends ::big grin::

And definitely reiterate the insulting and offensive. Most of us are sarcastic and half joking with our quips, but there's never any reason to be deliberately nasty or insulting to someone.

Continue on when ready V...

[hammerfan]

These are the kind of discussions I like to see. Well thought-out, mature, and intelligent.

Makes me wish I was good at expressing myself via the written word.

[Giganticface]

So, someone isn't allowed to disagree with something just because it's well-respected?

Nah, sorry man. I knew that would get misinterpreted. My bad.

All I meant was that I don't think a film should get a negative vote just because it's not in *your* top 100, which is basically the only reason you gave. It should get a negative vote if it's clearly undeserving, and hopefully you can provide some reasoning behind the negative vote.

[Straker]

Believe me, its not about wanting things all my own way, I have been involved in enough of these processes to realise that if you get one little victory against the swathe of myopic thought you can consider it a success. I'm just bored of ragging on people's favourite movies and sounding like a pretentious dick. I cant really muster up much but a general sense of apathy right now.



@Sculpt: Of course I've seen Edward Scissorhands....

[_____V_____]

32 films have received 2 nominations. They are:

12 Angry Men (1957) - 2
A Few Good Men - 2
Apocalypse Now - 2
Blade Runner - 2
Bonnie & Clyde - 2
Chinatown - 2
Close Encounters Of The Third Kind - 2
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - 2
Fargo - 2
Glengarry Glen Ross - 2
Gravity - 2
Inception - 2
Independence Day - 2
Lawrence Of Arabia - 2
North By Northwest - 2
Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl - 2
Raging Bull - 2
Rashomon - 2
Rocky - 2
Seven Samurai - 2
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan - 2
Terminator 2: Judgment Day - 2
The Dark Knight - 2
The Departed - 2
The Elephant Man - 2
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - 2
The Lion King - 2
The Lord of the Rings - 2
The Princess Bride - 2
The Wild Bunch - 2
This is Spinal Tap - 2
Unforgiven - 2


Arguments for/against? Majority rules.

[The Villain]

I neg vote:

Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind
Independence Day
Pirates of The Caribbean
Star Trek 2

All fine movies but they do not belong on this list

[roshiq]

12 Angry Men (1957) - 2
A Few Good Men - 2
Apocalypse Now - 2
Blade Runner - 2
Chinatown - 2
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind - 2
Glengarry Glen Ross - 2
Lawrence Of Arabia - 2
Raging Bull - 2
Rashomon - 2
Rocky - 2
Seven Samurai - 2
The Elephant Man - 2
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - 2

I'm not saying that I'm against the other films (except Gravity & Pirates of The Caribbean...count my neg vote for them) but just sharing my full support & wish to see the above 14 films straightly securing their places in the top 100.


The Lord of the Rings - 2


Which one...the whole trilogy or any specific part of the trilogy?

[_____V_____]

Which one...the whole trilogy or any specific part of the trilogy?

The complete trio, I am guessing, since hammerfan didn't mention any specific one out of the three.

[hammerfan]

The complete trio, I am guessing, since hammerfan didn't mention any specific one out of the three.

It includes all 3 films

[realdealblues]

Nah, sorry man. I knew that would get misinterpreted. My bad.

All I meant was that I don't think a film should get a negative vote just because it's not in *your* top 100, which is basically the only reason you gave. It should get a negative vote if it's clearly undeserving, and hopefully you can provide some reasoning behind the negative vote.

My votes are based on several criteria. First thing I look for is usually Cultural Significance which can include Box Office, Camera Work, Technical Aspects for advancing the field of cinema and it's impact on the general population.

But then more personally, how well I feel the Narrative is written, Originality, Memorability, Re-Watchability, etc.

Now this being a general list of non-horror I think about sub-genres. I personally would like to see a fair share of different genres represented. Comedies, Action, Westerns, Sci-fi, etc. so I make picks based on that as well.

For instance in this batch I would put Star Trek II in a Top 100 Sci-Fi films, but with limited space I think other films in a "General List" are more important based on my other criteria.

That said...

From the current list, I would neg-vote:

A Few Good Men
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Fargo
Glengarry Glen Ross
Gravity
Inception
Independence Day
Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl
Raging Bull
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
The Departed
The Elephant Man
The Lion King

[roshiq]

The complete trio, I am guessing, since hammerfan didn't mention any specific one out of the three.

It includes all 3 films

Then count my vote for it too.

[The Villain]

I have to argue for The Departed. First off it won Best Picture at the Oscars and scored Martin Scorcese his first Academy Award which if nothing else serves as a milestone for one of the greatest directors ever.

As for the movie itself, its amazingly acted. Has an awesome score and soundtrack and is shot brilliantly. The story is great and entertaining which builds up to an awesome finale.

Its arguably Scorceses best work and definitely one of the greatest films of all time.

[Sculpt]

Tough choices. Choosing the better films is easier than negging the existing, but I'll have a go. All films not listed below I support going through.


These films didn't hit as some of the best, but (except for Departed) I enjoyed them, and/or found them touching, and/or appreciated many of their technical accomplishments (including Departed). So I don't neg these:

Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl -
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan -
The Dark Knight -
The Departed - I didn't care for this film. It was finely shot and acted, but I didn't care for the story and characters. I don't recall being thrilled with the suspense, intrigue, action, but maybe I was too tired. Anyway, I'm Negging it.
The Elephant Man - Been a long long time since I've seen it. I remember expecting to be touched, but I seem to remember that I wasn't, which I would have assumed that (touching) was the point of the film, but since I don't remember it well enough, I'm not making any sort of critique here. Maybe I can coax some here, who's seen it, to tell me why they are supporting it.


These I neg, (and I do realise 3 of these have long been considered great films):

Gravity - I do like new experiences, creativity, this had technical expertise, I even like starkness, but the story hit me as a little too stark, as in I could have been right there with them and asked Bullock if she wanted to play 20 questions.
Independence Day - it was fairly entertaining, and that's what films are generally for, but I'm looking for something more from the greats. I know a good friend of mine was really moved by the ending presidential speech, but it and the film felt oldhat and formulaic to me.
Bonnie & Clyde - long time praised, each time I'll seen it, I don't get why. I didn't see any technical flaws. Some nicely shot sequences. But I didn't care about the characters, story, nor of course what they were doing. I didn't think it was in anyway masterful in suspense, action or change in character. Story didn't challenge my mind or beliefs in anyway, nor strum my emotions.
Chinatown - long time praised, each time I'll seen it, I don't quite get why it gets that much praise. I didn't see any technical flaws. Nicely acted, shot & directed film. But I didn't care about the characters, story, nor of course what was going on. I didn't think it was in anyway masterful in suspense, action or change in character. Story didn't challenge my mind or beliefs in anyway, nor strum my emotions.
Lawrence Of Arabia - long time praised, each time I'll seen it, I don't get why. There are very nice wide angle shots; finely shot. Some very fine performances. I wasn't thrilled by any particular suspense, intrigue or action, wasn't fascinated by the cultures or characters or story. Didn't notice any significant change in character. Lawrence was a mystery, and after the film, remained a mystery. Some will say that's the point. To each his own. Story didn't challenge my mind or beliefs in anyway, nor strum my emotions.

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Anyone else?