Abortion - actual thread

[Rotting Eye]

I'm gunna make a few threads about controversial issues. You don't have to start arguing about them, I just want to know what everyone thinks. But you can post an opinion if you want. Just be aware someone is probably going to argue with you.

Notice the options. I made two sets of options, which are pretty much the same, just some depend on how much you know about the topic. So pick between the two. Whether you know about the topic or not. There's a big difference between someone who's educated about a subject, and someone who decides blindly.

[bwind22]

My opinion is... What the fuck is this doing on a horror movie web site?

Not to be rude, but seriously...this type of stuff has no place here. I know its the general forum, but I just don't see the point in it.

[Rotting Eye]

Must I go through the whole "this is a general forum, you can post what you want here"?

Did it ever occur to you, that I may want to know the opinion of horror fans on these controversial issues? It's important to know how everyone feels. Besides, you can only talk about horror so much until it gets completely repatative.

If you look in the site suggestions thread Sam proposed a new section made so that important topics like this can be discussed, instead of having to weed through the idiots on a general forum. Considering I made this thread 5 minutes ago, and you already replied with something stupid, he was right.

If you're unintelligible about issues like these, don't pay attention to them. Go back to watching your horror movies and being ignorant.

[VampRocker]

I'm completely against it.

[coldwhisper]

I'm against it.

Hey, how about when you come into a situation when actually bearing the baby can cost the mothers life? Like in ectopic pregancy or when the you have a perimenopausal mother or when the mother was in an accident and she was bleeding profusely that only one can be saved (her life or her baby's)....what then? When it comes to these cases i'll go for abortion.

[Rotting Eye]

I realize that I left out a bunch of options, but the polls only allow you to have a maximum of 10. Plus, I didn't want to make it too complicated anyway :P

And stop showing off your pre-med knowledge lol

[Bub]

It's the womans choice, end of.
In this world you are sacred until you are born then you are on your fuckin own. You must be born, now please go have a shitty unwanted life and don't knock on my door for help, wtf is that?

It is the womans body, the womans conscience, it has nothing to do with anybody but that woman, in my view.
Sure if there is a man in the relationship he should be considered, but until he is prepared to pass a bowling ball out his ass he really isn't equal.
If your God wouldn't agree that's her problem not yours.

[bloodrayne]

I would die myself, before I would kill my child...


I read this somewhere once...Allow me to share it with you...


"An abortion does not make a woman 'unpregnant'...It makes her the mother of a dead baby"

[coldwhisper]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye

And stop showing off your pre-med knowledge lol

touche. LOL.That was not intended for you. ;) I was just thinking loudly.

and i'm not premed, i'm a medstudent. big difference.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by coldwhisper
touche. LOL.That was not intended for you. ;) I was just thinking loudly.

and i'm not premed, i'm a medstudent. big difference.

Well, I remembered you were med something. :D

And I'm gunna be studying somewhere along those lines sometime, gunna become a veterinarian.. I hope anyway.

[coldwhisper]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
Well, I remembered you were med something. :D

And I'm gunna be studying somewhere along those lines sometime, gunna become a veterinarian.. I hope anyway.

good for you! what was it that drew you in.. was it the blood? you're gonna be slaughtering a lot of animals (for study, of course) before you can actually heal them..:D SWEET.

[cheebacheeba]

Personally, I'd rather see more children bought up in a SECURE (both financially AND emotionally) household than see what I've been seeing over the past few years - A bunch of pram pushing 15-16 year olds that are ill equipped to raise a child, and would most likely give them a totally fucked upbringing anyway.
I think that if you don't have at least one of the following
*A secure job + housing
*A stable relationship with co-parent
*An Education
*Super-rich parents
You just shouldn't have a kid.
Can't Feed 'Em - Don't Breed 'Em...
Anyone can fuck up and make a mistake at a young age, and in most of those kinda cases, I'd consider it the responsible choice.
As for who's decision it should be, if you're in a "real" relationship
both parties SHOULD be involved in the decision, and this shouldn't be a problem, as a "real" couple would most likely want to discuss the situation, each partner hearing the others thoughts, pros and cons.
I'm not saying I'm "all for" people fucking around unprotected and having abortions as a regular thing either, I think they are the most irresponsible people out there.
However, I don't feel a person should be descriminated against for making a decision on the basis of necessity, one that could prevent themselves and a child from living in poverty....
-B

[Dreaming Girl]

Abortion is a touchy subject. I know two people who have had an abortion, and although neither were in a position to raise a child it continues to haunt both of them.

... ... ... I simply can't comment on the choices of others. All I can say is BE RESPONSIBLE AND CAREFUL WHEN HAVING SEX. If you do that much, then I care not what you decide to do should something unwanted result. My opinions are my own, and I won't harrass other's choices in life...

For myself - I would not abort under any circumstance unless my own life was in serious danger.

[HappyCamper]

i'm completely against it. One of my best friends, was the result of his mother being raped (very rare occurance...i believe i read somewhere that like less than 1% of rape victims actually become pregnant) anyway if his mom had decided to have an abortion one of my best friends wouldn't even have existed.

i do however as a libertarian (http://www.lp.org) believe that everyone should make the decision for themselves. I just wouldn't want my girlfriend or say my daughter to have an abortation.

[fluffho]

Originally posted by coldwhisper
I'm against it.

Hey, how about when you come into a situation when actually bearing the baby can cost the mothers life? Like in ectopic pregancy or when the you have a perimenopausal mother or when the mother was in an accident and she was bleeding profusely that only one can be saved (her life or her baby's)....what then? When it comes to these cases i'll go for abortion.

one of my aunts had twins. well she became pregnant again a few years later, with tw ins. one morning she woke up and kept drueling, couldnt hold her head upo either.

turned out she had a pretty hefty brain tumor. they needed to operate, but that woulda killed the kids. she said hell no. and waited till they were born.

that was very dangerous. and 2 years later only now have i seen her. shes kinda odd..... so yeh in odd cases it can happen

[avenged_soul]

im not aginst it nor am i for it! if you had sex and the condom broke or you were raped and dont want to have the child then i can see that abortion would be fit, but if you're haveing random unprotected sex, then to hell with you , youre having a kid!

abortion is a serious thing and the one thing everyone should think aboot is what if the baby, your kid was going to grow up and find the cure for cancer or aids. but you also have to take into turn that the world is already suffering in overpopulation, all over the world there are childer starving and dieing of illnesses because they are orphand, is it fair to bring a child into a world and then put him/her into a orphanage, making them suffer for your mistake? i think not!

so all in all i could go either way! and in most cases abortion isnt the way!

[Vodstok]

I'm for the choice, not necessarilly for everyone to go out fucking and not take any responsibility for it. I would have more sympathy for the pro-lifers if they actually had some brains and considered what they would be doing with the kids AFTER they are born. Do they sponsor orphanages? Give money to the parents of the kids? Do they do ANYTHING but thump their bibles (or whatever) and spout their opinion?

I have never seen one. As was stated earlier, life is beautiful and precious, until it is born. Eric Rudolf "cared" about those unborn babies so much he was willing to kill ones that had already established a life on this planet.

They want to dictate how people should live their lives, but do not want to take any responsibility for their declaration.

In the end, if a woman wants an abortion, let her have it and deal with the emotional aftermath (dont think they go right out and start fucking again, I've never known anyone who had ione that wasnt emotionally scarred by it), otherwise, if they have to have the baby, you fucking take care of it. You decided the child would live, then you decided HOW it would live, so take care of it, or shut the fuck up.

[Sam The Egg]

you could've worded the poll better. I'm not really "For it", since I'm not saying "Yeah, abortions for all!" or anything, I'm just against making it illegal. Most of the time the reasons for outlawing abortion are religious, and you can't take religion into consideration when deciding whether or not something should be illegal. Technically speaking, one could say that it's not even a mammal until it develops lungs and it's spinal cord. But my personal feelings don't matter in this case, because even if I were completely against them, I would still say they should be legal because the availability should be there for those who want them. Besides, they'll get them anyways. I'd rather them be done in a sanitary clinic with liscensed people performing them than in a basement by Abortion Larry.

[_Leatha_Face_]

im for it i think that u made it u should be able to destroy it its ur decision

[Ritualistic]

COMPLETELY AGAINST IT!!! Doing what you want to with your own body is one thing BUT murdering an innocent life is another. That is all I have to say with this subject

[Wicked Lady]

I'm so sick of people saying that it's okay to abort your child because it's a part of your body....You know what? It isn't..A human being isn't something you can just throw away if you have too many or if you just don't want one...Pro-choice? What about the baby's choice? Do they ever get to make one? No, if not for the Mother's choice, their child would've been able to make many..Instead they are dumped before they are even able to see the light of day..I think it's just wrong...The love of my life was almost aborted..If he would have been, I would never know happiness like what he has brought me...If he wasn't here, I wouldn't have had someone to pull me out of my shell...to kill my depression..I wouldn't have had someone to share my feelings with....

In closing...no one is FORCED to have a child...They make the choice to have a child when they CHOOSE to sleep around

[Sam The Egg]

They make the choice to have a child when they CHOOSE to sleep around
And what about rape?

[Ritualistic]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
And what about rape? As fucked up as this sounds but "Things happen for a reason" If a woman gets raped and gets pregnant I still dont believe in murdering that child inside her. It is awful when a woman gets raped PERIOD but I murder is murder. She can always give the child up for adoption..

[Vodstok]

I will refer back to something i said earlier:

Are you going to help the kid? PAy for it? Give money to an orphanage right now, or adopt an unwanted child and come back and say that again. Until then, i consider that opinion ignorant.

[Sam The Egg]

I still believe that it's not a human until it has the physical characteristics of a human, ie: Lungs, Spinal chord, all that.

[Vodstok]

Its a developing human, which doesnt necesarrily make it a person. It's sad that many people do it because they are irresponsible, but we're going on 7 billion people on this planet, and we cant afford to suffer for other people's stupidity.

[Sam The Egg]

I'm not saying it should be used all willy nilly just because the guy didn't pull out or something like that. I'm not saying it should be done at all. All I'm saying is that it should be available for those who aren't against it.

BTW, I find it odd that every Pro-Life person I know is for the death penalty

[fluffho]

in the case of raped women... what do you tell the child later? that is to say, that the child is lucky enough to find his mother, and nowadays thats getting more likely

mommy??
oh my son
mommy, whos my daddy?
ohh.. some guy that raped me

great scenario

personally. id rather have a childkilled at 3 weeks of age than to see it being raised by fuckin 14 year olds.

now im not so sure how i feel about partial birth ab ortion, but in the cases of teenagers, id make a mandatory adoption.

boo ya

[bloodygurl02]

i am against it

[bloodygurl02]

Originally posted by Wicked Lady
I'm so sick of people saying that it's okay to abort your child because it's a part of your body....You know what? It isn't..A human being isn't something you can just throw away if you have too many or if you just don't want one...Pro-choice? What about the baby's choice? Do they ever get to make one? No, if not for the Mother's choice, their child would've been able to make many..Instead they are dumped before they are even able to see the light of day..I think it's just wrong...The love of my life was almost aborted..If he would have been, I would never know happiness like what he has brought me...If he wasn't here, I wouldn't have had someone to pull me out of my shell...to kill my depression..I wouldn't have had someone to share my feelings with....

In closing...no one is FORCED to have a child...They make the choice to have a child when they CHOOSE to sleep around

rigth on wicked lady. well put

[Sam The Egg]

Okay, let's let the fetus decide whether or not it gets aborted or not. I mean, since the 'But what about the BABY'S choice' is TOTALLY valid and a really great argument, surely the fetus is capable of MAKING a choice, right?

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
I would die myself, before I would kill my child...


I read this somewhere once...Allow me to share it with you...


"An abortion does not make a woman 'unpregnant'...It makes her the mother of a dead baby"

I agree with that but as a man, I dont know what it is like to have a child or destroy one from inside my body. Therefore I feel that a man should have no say in what goes on in a womans body. Although myself I think abortion is wrong for me I cannot make a decision for the woman. I have always seen it as a life but it is not my life to take. It really is sad that some people use it as birth control, I just think its wrong.

[Sam The Egg]

"An abortion does not make a woman 'unpregnant'...It makes her the mother of a dead baby"

Which in turn makes her unpregnant. It's not like she's still pregnant. I mean, I was under the impression that after you give birth you're no longer pregnant. But I'm a man, what do I know?

[VampRocker]

I hate how people say it's the "woman's choice." Don't you think the unborn human life has a choice, too?

I simply cannot understand how you can justify murdering a human life, just because it hasn't left it's mothers womb...

Abortionists are murderers, plain and simple. And isn't that ironic? How this is a "horror message board?"

[Sam The Egg]

It's not a human the whole time, though

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
It's not a human the whole time, though

Whoops, sorry. My mistake. Thank you, God.:rolleyes:

[Sam The Egg]

*sigh* It's just the same as you saying (or implying) that it IS human the whole time. At least there's something to back up that it's not human the entire time.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
*sigh* It's just the same as you saying (or implying) that it IS human the whole time. At least there's something to back up that it's not human the entire time.

Says who? Who can ACTUALLY determine whether or not it's a human life? Seriously, just think about that.

After you're done, please, tell me, what are the secrets of the universe? Then, of course, I'd like to know the formulaic equation to creating human life. Thanks!

[fluffho]

my neighbor was killed a week or so ago

she had a brain aneurism, underwent surgery.

2 weeks minimum waiting, till they try to revive her

2 days short of the 2 ewek mark she has a heart attack and another brain aneurism, much more severe than the first

they pulled the plug.. why? her brain was dead

you are not alive without a brain.. and a bunch of things develop BEFORE the brain ever does. which is why many people go along with first trimester abortions

[Sam The Egg]

Ok, let's assume that humans are mammals for a moment.

The characteristics of mammals include the following:
Characteristics of Mammals
Mammals have backbones.
Mammals are warm-blooded.
Mammals breathe with lungs.
Mammal babies are born live.
Mammals have fur or hair.
Mammals nurse their young.


I've bolded the two important ones. Now, according to this site (http://www.pregnancy.mb.ca/cpc-dev.htm),
six weeks
the sex organs develop
the embryo now has a full skeletal system


I'm assuming that the skeletal system includes the backbone, since it's not mentioned anywhere before it. Also,
eight weeks

the fetus (Latin for 'little one')is now two inches long
every organ is now in place
the stomach produces digestive juices
the baby's finger and footprints are clearly visible
the child responds to painful stimuli
the infant can make a fist
the kidneys begin to function


in 8 weeks the organs are in place. Lungs aren't mentioned before this, so let's assume that the lungs are included with the organs. That's 6 weeks until the backbone is developed and 8 weeks until the lungs are in place. 2 whole months before you could even say it's a mammal.

[orangestar]

I voted that I was totally against it, but....
If you are raped, and you dont have a partial birth abortion, then you are ok in my book.People should be responsible for themselves when having sex, and when people arent, that is wat adoption agencies are for, but I were raped I would hate to have to tell my child that they were created in that horrible way.

[Sam The Egg]

BTW, I'm glad nobody's used the "You could be killing the next Einstein" shit so far. That's the dumbest thing ever.

[fluffho]

why are peopel always so optimistic

maybe theyre killing the next hitler hmmm?

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Ok, let's assume that humans are mammals for a moment.

The characteristics of mammals include the following:


I've bolded the two important ones. Now, according to this site (http://www.pregnancy.mb.ca/cpc-dev.htm),


I'm assuming that the skeletal system includes the backbone, since it's not mentioned anywhere before it. Also,


in 8 weeks the organs are in place. Lungs aren't mentioned before this, so let's assume that the lungs are included with the organs. That's 6 weeks until the backbone is developed and 8 weeks until the lungs are in place. 2 whole months before you could even say it's a mammal.

The fact that you try to justify abortion appalls me. It's not a choice. At all. Why do you think life comes into existance after a few essential organs are developed? Don't you think there's more to it than that? I'm not God, and I certainly can't explain what's "right" and what's "wrong," but at least I have such respect for human that I don't take a pair of thongs and simply end the process of a childs existance everytime I think it won't be convenient for me to have a kid.

Naw, I take that back. Abortion is done by doctors. By doctors! They went to overpriced schools and wear stethescopes around their necks! They have to know what's right! Thanks, Sam, you've saved me years of trouble!

[Sam The Egg]

All you have in response is sarcasm? Tsk tsk.

Let me ask you something (two things). Are you in favor of the death penalty? Are you a vegitarian?

[fluffho]

so are you saying my brainless neighbor sholdve been kept on life support then? she was dead before they pulled the plug. and without the brain, the baby is nothing

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by fluffho
why are peopel always so optimistic

maybe theyre killing the next hitler hmmm?

My point exactly. You can't say 'what if' as a reason, because if you do that then every other 'what if' is just as valid.

[Sam The Egg]

And if you'd bothered to read the rest of the thread, you'd know that I'm not really all that in favor of abortion, I'm simply in favor of the availability of it for those who aren't against it. But you're right, I'm a murderer.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
All you have in response is sarcasm? Tsk tsk.

Let me ask you something (two things). Are you in favor of the death penalty? Are you a vegitarian?

Laaame.

You've never used sarcasm on this board? Get over yourself, jackass.

As for the death penalty, it depends. I'm sure you can agree. If a man killed my mother, my father and all of my friends, I would want him put to death. If an unborn child murdered all of those people...I'd sooo abort the little bastard!

I'm not vegitarian. Yes, very clever of you. The "animals have lives, too" card. Sorry, they're only here for eating, pal. Stop eating tofu and kill a cow -- welcome to the food chain.

Oh, wait, does "vegitarian" mean "the consumption of unborn children?" If so, then your point would have been valid, whatever point you were trying to make. And no, I don't eat them, if you were wondering. Well, the ones that aren't "fully developed," at least.

[Wicked Lady]

Why does everything always come down to science? What about the soul factor?
What if YOU would have been aborted? Does anyone think of that? Why should we, mortal humans deside whether or not this child should live? What gives us the right? It is NOT a part of the mother's body it is NOT for her to deside whether or not it is worthy of life beyond the womb...

The very fact that a living thing becomes a bloody glob in the garbage, disgusts me...

A human is human no matter how many differant ways you try to say it isn't...

[Sam The Egg]

You've never used sarcasm on this board? Get over yourself, jackass.
Insults now. Very nice. I use sarcasm, yes. I've used sarcasm in this very thread. The difference is, I also had a point. You didn't.

As for the death penalty, it depends. I'm sure you can agree. If a man killed my mother, my father and all of my friends, I would want him put to death. If an unborn child murdered all of those people...I'd sooo abort the little bastard!

Okay, so I'll put that as a yes.

I'm not vegitarian. Yes, very clever of you. The "animals have lives, too" card. Sorry, they're only here for eating, pal. Stop eating tofu and kill a cow -- welcome to the food chain.
Okay, a no. I'm not either, and thank you for assuming that I am. You're the one so hung up on taking lives.

Oh, wait, does "vegitarian" mean "the consumption of unborn children?" If so, then your point would have been valid, whatever point you were trying to make. And no, I don't eat them, if you were wondering. Well, the ones that aren't "fully developed," at least.

If you have to ask what vegitarianism is then any credibility you had just flew out the window. If not, and this was just sarcasm, then this entire part of your post was pointless.


Okay, give me one solid reason that abortion should be illegal. None of this pseudo-religious stuff. I want a GOOD reason. If not, then you've got nothing, and I'll know I can stop wasting my time and move on.

[Sam The Egg]

Why does everything always come down to science? What about the soul factor?

Ah, ah, no religious stuff.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg



Okay, give me one solid reason that abortion should be illegal. None of this pseudo-religious stuff. I want a GOOD reason. If not, then you've got nothing, and I'll know I can stop wasting my time and move on.

You should probably move on.

They've got some nice threads going now, too. Maybe you can contribute to those. Hey, maybe you can even start one! Possibilities are endless...

There's no way we can agree to anything, or at least come upon a compromise. Well, maybe there's one:

Let bygones be bygones. It's over. I'm not changing your mind, you're not changing mine.

No scurry off! You've got some board whoring to get to! Make sure to fuck with those newbies real good! I mean, c'mon, they're new, they deserve it! Have fun, d00d.

[Sam The Egg]

More sarcasm. And you were doing so good. I was doing better, but that doesn't make your stuff any worse.

But yeah, I'm going to find other stuff to do.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by fluffho
and without the brain, the baby is nothing

Wow. That's great.

Boy, I sure do wish your mother aborted you.

Was that an insult? Of course not. I mean, if she was aborted, she wouldn't know, right? No harm done! So, theoretically, since she's one for abortion, there shouldn't be any hard feelings, right? Right!

[Sam The Egg]

But you don't believe that. Since you think it's murder, you saying it is the same as wishing she was dead.

[BudMan]

There are two topics I stay away from. Religion and Politics. And this one can go either way.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by BudMan
There are two topics I stay away from. Religion and Politics. And this one can go either way.

Unfortunately they seem to keep getting put together even though they shouldn't

[fluffho]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Wow. That's great.

Boy, I sure do wish your mother aborted you.

Was that an insult? Of course not. I mean, if she was aborted, she wouldn't know, right? No harm done! So, theoretically, since she's one for abortion, there shouldn't be any hard feelings, right? Right!

so your saying my brainless neighbor should NOT have been taken off of life support? i mean she WAS.. stil alive. just no brain activity is all..

....

and ur right. if she aborted she wouldnt have known. as simple as that.

[BudMan]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Unfortunately they seem to keep getting put together even though they shouldn't

Agreed

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
But you don't believe that. Since you think it's murder, you saying it is the same as wishing she was dead.

You got me!

I thought you were leaving this topic alone? Couldn't resist my ever charming presence? Aw, how cute...

Again, it was sarcasm. I don't wish an abortion on anyone. But I kind of wish Fluffho would die of a heart attack, you know, something that isn't anyone's fault but her own. Again, there I go wishing death on someone...boy, I sure do feel hypocritical...

How about this: Sam, you leave. You're wrong. Fluffho, you quit contributing to the message board. Your complete lack of punctuation is not only giving me a headache but gaining me an even larger disrespect for public schooling. Oh, that and because you suck. I just don't like you. Asslicker.

"i mean she WAS.. stil alive. just no brain activity is all."

Oxymoron, anyone?

Besides, whoever pulled the plug on your neighbor didn't do it out of respect for her, they did it because their schedule couldn't "fit her in." That and because they wanted to save a few extra bucks...

[Sam The Egg]

I thought you were leaving this topic alone?

I said I was finding other stuff to do. See?

But yeah, I'm going to find other stuff to do.

Besides, someone has to bring logic into this, and since you won't, I'll have to.

[Sam The Egg]

How about this: Sam, you leave. You're wrong.

At least I back my arguments up with fact, not personal attacks and quasi-religoius bullshit

[BudMan]

This is why I stay away from these topics. It always gets ugly.

[fluffho]

...

so you think she should have continued on as a vegetable? so that her children could come look at her every week and show her their school work

. good call

nuff said

and fien u want me to die. so? do i give a shit that my typing aint right? nope. this isnt a term paper, its a fuckin forum

if it gives u a headache dont read it

and dont even bring my intelligence into question. i got into the #11 university in the nation.. did you read that, IN THE NATION.

look you have your thoughts, i have mine, as does sam. we'll agree and sometimes disagree. the fact is, i've never wished death upon you... or anyone else, for thinking how they think

that makes me wonder YOUR level of intelligence.. or maturity for that matter "i wish youd die of a heart attack" ... hm....

EDIT: how about this. go to a doctor. ask them about how life support works. ask them what happens when the brain is dead. then come back here. shes was NOT like terry schiavo. terry moved, terry responded. she was asleep. had a heart attack as well as a BIGGER aneurism, then lost all brain activity..

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg



Besides, someone has to bring logic into this, and since you won't, I'll have to.

Oh, Sam, you're my hero...

Well, let's hear it. Your "logic." Whoops, scratch that. You said you were leaving.

So leave.

Laters, d00d!

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by BudMan
This is why I stay away from these topics. It always gets ugly.

And for once (not counting the SFF topics) it's not my fault

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Oh, Sam, you're my hero...

Well, let's hear it. Your "logic." Whoops, scratch that. You said you were leaving.

So leave.

Laters, d00d!

Did you even READ the rest of that post?

[fluffho]

Originally posted by BudMan
This is why I stay away from these topics. It always gets ugly.

yeh i know wut u mean

see theres a difference between de bating.. and telling people that they should die, and how teyre so stupid and bla blah

you dont get anywhere doing that. which is why this cat cant contribute much. you think an organization would want a guy who name calls and shit?

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by fluffho
see theres a difference between de bating.. and telling people that they should die, and how teyre so stupid and bla blah

THANK YOU

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by fluffho
...

so you think she should have continued on as a vegetable? so that her children could come look at her every week and show her their school work

. good call

nuff said

and fien u want me to die. so? do i give a shit that my typing aint right? nope. this isnt a term paper, its a fuckin forum

if it gives u a headache dont read it

and dont even bring my intelligence into question. i got into the #11 university in the nation.. did you read that, IN THE NATION.

look you have your thoughts, i have mine, as does sam. we'll agree and sometimes disagree. the fact is, i've never wished death upon you... or anyone else, for thinking how they think

that makes me wonder YOUR level of intelligence.. or maturity for that matter "i wish youd die of a heart attack" ... hm....

My maturity? Oh, wow. That's great. Can I quote you? It's just too...hilarious!

Have you even read half of your posts on this thing? For a while I thought you were an eleven year old chimp with two fingers. Asslicker.

"and dont even bring my intelligence into question. i got into the #11 university in the nation.. did you read that, IN THE NATION."

The fact that you brought that up only shows your insecurities on the subject.

"so you think she should have continued on as a vegetable? so that her children could come look at her every week and show her their school work

. good call"

I feel like an idiot. No, really, I do. You're more than right, sweetie. I mean, seriously, a vegetable? Ew, groooss!

You know, Fluff, you make me feel so warm and special inside. Babies are an excessary to your life and if it gets to become to much of a hassle, death is an a-okay path?

Marry me?

[fluffho]

you are very theatrical in your responses

this is for debate. not for arguing

and when you start bring up all this 'you shuld die' 'your so dumb ' crap.. you make it an argument.

just like the thread states. he doesnt want people arguing, but we can talk about it if we want

just like the REST of us have, we say our opinions

you however choose to slander those who are of an opinion other than yours

[BudMan]

And I'm getting really tired of seeing Janet Jacksons 40 year old tit. Time to change my avatar.

[Sam The Egg]

BTW, Vamp, are you religious at all?

[fluffho]

well im guessing no, considering he wished death upon me


then again since the beginning people have been killing in the name of god so ... nm

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by fluffho
yeh i know wut u mean

see theres a difference between de bating.. and telling people that they should die, and how teyre so stupid and bla blah


Oh, c'mon. Since when did you guys become such crybabies? Oh, that's right, since you've realized half of the stuff you've been saying is nonsense and that using the "hey, no name calling!" excuse was a last resort to stay on top.



you dont get anywhere doing that. which is why this cat cant contribute much. you think an organization would want a guy who name calls and shit?


Hey, if you've got to go, you've got to go.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
BTW, Vamp, are you religious at all?

Hey, no religion talk, buddy!

Stick to your own rules, kid.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Hey, no religion talk, buddy!

Stick to your own rules, kid.

I was asking if you were religious, I wasn't bringing religion into the topic of abortion. Since you didn't answer, and you've been using personal attacks and ignoring anything that doesn't back up your side, I'll assume that you are.

[fluffho]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
THANK YOU

your velcome

but seriously though. if someone wants to debate, lets go. but if you wanna sling names then go somewhere else.

[Sam The Egg]

Yeah, but in this case it's kind of expected

[fluffho]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Since you didn't answer, and you've been using personal attacks and ignoring anything that doesn't back up your side, I'll assume that you are.

thank YOU sam

EDIT: yeh i gues it is kinda of expected. but i been looking at the other debates, and all the other posts. and they were DEBATES. NOT arguments...

i guess someone had to break it EVENTUALLY

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
I was asking if you were religious, I wasn't bringing religion into the topic of abortion. Since you didn't answer, and you've been using personal attacks and ignoring anything that doesn't back up your side, I'll assume that you are.

Alright, alright. I'm religious. There's your answer, fuckface.

Well, not that religious.

I've never made any personal attacks on anyone...at first. I simply stated my opinion, maybe insinuated that you pro-choice rat bastards are all murderers, but never called you a douchebag or Fluffy Wuffy a slutbucket. Well, I did just call you a fuckface, but it was more out of dramatical effect than personal hate. You know what I mean? Sure you do. You know everything!

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Alright, alright. I'm religious. There's your answer, fuckface.

Well, not that religious.

I've never made any personal attacks on anyone...at first. I simply stated my opinion, maybe insinuated that you pro-choice rat bastards are all murderers, but never called you a douchebag or Fluffy Wuffy a slutbucket. Well, I did just call you a fuckface, but it was more out of dramatical effect than personal hate. You know what I mean? Sure you do. You know everything!

I never said I know everything. I just seem to know more than you. And all you've done is throw around insults and personall attacks, when you haven't been whining about abortion even though you have nothing to back up your arguement except things which don't belong anywhere near it.

[fluffho]

so you made your opinion WITHOUT insults, at first

so? i made my opinion then too. asking a question, something to think about. i was curiuos as to what you'd say. did i ever say 'you fuckin idiot. what about my neighbor ' 'hey asshole, so u think my neighbor shuld be a vegetable' no..... did i even ever make fun of your name? vappyrocky.. wapcock? no....

so what did you do? you didnt answer it. all yo udid was tell me that my mother shuldve aborted me. then you tried telling me that im dumb... OH lets not forget how i shuld die of a heart attack

so much for the debate

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by fluffho
your velcome

but seriously though. if someone wants to debate, lets go. but if you wanna sling names then go somewhere else.

If you can't handle a few words then go somewhere else.

If the person who originally started this didn't want it to get too out of hand, then he would say so by now. Besides, what's to debate? Debating is over, honey, no one's converting the other to their opinions.

Remind me to get you a pack of wire hangers and a few salad tongs for Christmas. I'm sure you'll need 'em.

[Sam The Egg]

yes, and apparently this is the time for childish insults. Vamp will probably win this one

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by fluffho
so you made your opinion WITHOUT insults, at first

so? i made my opinion then too. asking a question, something to think about. i was curiuos as to what you'd say. did i ever say 'you fuckin idiot. what about my neighbor ' 'hey asshole, so u think my neighbor shuld be a vegetable' no..... did i even ever make fun of your name? vappyrocky.. wapcock? no....

so what did you do? you didnt answer it. all yo udid was tell me that my mother shuldve aborted me. then you tried telling me that im dumb... OH lets not forget how i shuld die of a heart attack

so much for the debate

Oh, c'mon, I'm sure you love my name! Don't be afraid to admit it...

Hold on...head...hurting...getting...dizzy...so many...spelling mistakes...

And I already gave my opinion on your neighbor. Sure, it was covered in sarcasm, but I was certain you'd be smart enough to know that. Apparently, no.

Note to self: Along with wire hangers and salad tongs, pick up a pair of Pampers and Kleenex for the Fluffster.

[fluffho]

did it ever occur to you that the person who created this thread may not be online yet? that maybe when he gets a chance to see it, he may reply?

then again he may not

and yes... fine. sling names. its expected of course. just be aware that i am standing by my opinion with facts and questions.. whereas you stick by yours with names and death wishes

and believe it or not, people CAN debate. sure, you would LIKE for the person to fall onto your side, but usually, its not gona happen. why do they have debate team in high school? to LEARN. i am learning a lot, a bout my view, reasons why others share my view, reasons why others do NOT share my view.. and so forth

THAT is why we debate.. not to sling names

until you, this was NOT messy. why is it that the debate up until YOUR post, was civil? why is it that they could chat without telling each other to go have a heart attack? thats what i wanna know

EDIT: there you go on and on and on with the insults. why dont i? cuz thast not the point. im here to discus abortion, not to see who can come up with the best insult.

i havent insulted you. yet you sit here and CONTINUE to insult me.. and no im not crying. i just dont see why you are resorting to that. people before you have disagreed yet they didnt insult each other

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
yes, and apparently this is the time for childish insults. Vamp will probably win this one

Finally, some common sense!

What do I win? Complete domination over the board? Do I get your title?!

[Sam The Egg]

Nice job, Vamp, you're a credit to Pro-Lifers everywhere.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Finally, some common sense!

What do I win? Complete domination over the board? Do I get your title?!

You wanna be Banky Edwards? No, you can't. You can be Holden.

[BudMan]

I've only been on this board for a couple of weeks. I never realized that Vamp was such an asshole. I expected this shit from maybe evis or sam [ sorry sam, 1st impressions and all but you have surprise me with your constraint. ]

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by fluffho

until you, this was NOT messy. why is it that the debate up until YOUR post, was civil? why is it that they could chat without telling each other to go have a heart attack? thats what i wanna know

I think it's because of my overwhelming charm...

[fluffho]

Originally posted by BudMan
I've only been on this board for a couple of weeks. I never realized that Vamp was such an asshole. I expected this shit from maybe evis or sam [ sorry sam, 1st impressions and all but you have surprise me with your constraint. ]

yeh, i never realized it either..
LOL about evis and sam

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
You wanna be Banky Edwards? No, you can't. You can be Holden.

Awesome. I wouldn't want to be Banky, anyways. He's just a tracer!

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by BudMan
I've only been on this board for a couple of weeks. I never realized that Vamp was such an asshole. I expected this shit from maybe evis or sam [ sorry sam, 1st impressions and all but you have surprise me with your constraint. ]

It's easy to be civil in cases like this. Especially since I had lot's of practice arguing with this type back when SFF was on the board.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Awesome. I wouldn't want to be Banky, anyways. He's just a tracer!

Was he a tracer, or was Holden a sketcher? The inker adds details and shading, the picture before is just the outlines.

[fluffho]

this IS becoming quite reminiscent of SFF.

*sighs* ah well

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by fluffho
yeh, i never realized it either..
LOL about evis and sam

I've joined the ranks of them?! Wow, I honestly feel special.

First order of business:

Create and fully use my own catch phrases, use photoshoped photos including said catch phrases pasted on to them to be used EVERYWHERE and to make sure to use the word "own" a lot. And I mean a lot.

[Sam The Egg]

Yeah, you've joined the ranks of SFF and The Instigator and Tiny Terror.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Was he a tracer, or was Holden a sketcher? The inker adds details and shading, the picture before is just the outlines.

I'm not sure. Honestly, I haven't seen "Chasing Amy" in years, so I'm just going on instinct here. Good movie, too.

[fluffho]

and we know what happened to 2/3 of them....

(bannage)

well not exactly. but they did leave

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
I'm not sure. Honestly, I haven't seen "Chasing Amy" in years, so I'm just going on instinct here. Good movie, too.

Hey, we agree on something. According to Banky, the inker add's depth and shading. But he wrote them, too, so there ya go.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Yeah, you've joined the ranks of SFF and The Instigator and Tiny Terror.

Naw. I won't disappear out on you guys -- you're too much fun! And even if I did, I wouldn't "reincarnate" myself under new, completely suspicious looking names.

[Sam The Egg]

Maybe not, but then you aren't as good at arguing as they were, either

[fluffho]

SFF did have some pretty creative insults. although there were 3 separate occasions where i completely OWNED her.

not too sure about instigator though. he left before i real ly got to see him

[Sam The Egg]

it seemed like I was owning her constantly. But I'm probably just saying that because I'm a man. OMG SEXISM!

[fluffho]

well i know i owned her on 3 subjects specifically

credit cards
my intelligence (i mega owned her on that one)
and...

the third one escapes me at this moment

you, rotting and possibly evisc though did the bulk of the owning. so i left it all to you.

[Sam The Egg]

the time I owned her the most was in the "Guys in Horror" thread

[fluffho]

damn.. i mustve missed that one

then again al of the arguments started melding together so i dunno

[Sam The Egg]

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3552&perpage=15&highlight=guys&pagenumber=1

there's the thread. Even Arioch gave me props for it

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by fluffho
well i know i owned her on 3 subjects specifically

credit cards
my intelligence (i mega owned her on that one)
and...

the third one escapes me at this moment

you, rotting and possibly evisc though did the bulk of the owning. so i left it all to you.

It's true. Major own-age.

Okay, let's give this a whirl...what do you think of this new catch phrase I came up with?

"You've been owned to the bone!"

It's hip, it's cool, it rhymes! What else does a bad-ass like myself need?

[Sam The Egg]

something that doesn't rhyme would be a good start

[fluffho]

wow. u did own her sam

the way you can tell with her is she stops talkin. thats the thing i like about gore, he apologizes or at least says 'your right'

she just ignores you and moves on to be owned again and again

i kinda like owned to the bone, but it needs a good pic

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
something that doesn't rhyme would be a good start

Yikes. I didn't know.

[Sam The Egg]

that's what you need, a pic. Not some catchphrase. I'll give you one of mine.

[fluffho]

im making an owned pic tomororw, if i remember. all i need to do is snap the pic.

be on the lookout! oh how exciting

actually the other day, i have a picture that i wanna use. i'd ask ur opinion but im too lazy to post it right now. anyway, its the porch. we have a tarp on top, to make shade. well its non porous, and it rained about 1 1/2 weeks ago. theres 3 HUGE places where it buckled and is full of water. i know someone is gonna walk under and get annihilated. i hope its my dog.

i like to use the word annihilated. so i wanna put 'annihilated' below it. but see that woudlnt fit, unless of course i am able to catch a pic DURING the annihilation.

'prepare to be annihilated' see thats just lame.

[Sam The Egg]

nothing will ever be as awesome as this owned pic.

And no, you can't have it. This is mine

[fluffho]

aw man i dont like that one hehe

still funny though

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
nothing will ever be as awesome as this owned pic.

And no, you can't have it. This is mine

Yikes. Good thing no one cares about that anymore or someone would have been totally offended...

[Sam The Egg]

someone probably still will be, and I still won't care.

[coldwhisper]

Originally posted by Wicked Lady
I'm so sick of people saying that it's okay to abort your child because it's a part of your body

I agree. Actually an embryo is really not a part of the woman's body since its genetic compositon is not the same as the mother's.:)

[Sam The Egg]

are you really gonna bring in science as a reason to outlaw abortion, because there's a perfectly good reason not to in the thread already

[Rotting Eye]

After reading through the entire tiffle, you completely missed the point of my thread VampRocker. The point was to debate in a civilized fashion. Not to come in arguing, calling names, and throwing insults.

In the end you did get owned.. badly.

However,

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by coldwhisper
I agree. Actually an embryo is really not a part of the woman's body since its genetic compositon is not the same as the mother's.:)

Technically, the genetic composition may be different, but it's still a part of a woman's body. Until the baby can function without having to depend on the umbilical cord, it's connected, and part of the body. It's almost like a bud, or extension of the woman...

[coldwhisper]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
Technically, the genetic composition may be different, but it's still a part of a woman's body. Until the baby can function without having to depend on the umbilical cord, it's connected, and part of the body. It's almost like a bud, or extension of the woman...

I was actually waiting for someone to tell me that... Wow, im impressed.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
Technically, the genetic composition may be different, but it's still a part of a woman's body. Until the baby can function without having to depend on the umbilical cord, it's connected, and part of the body. It's almost like a bud, or extension of the woman...

EDIT: Yeah, I know, but I really like this picture. And it fits, being sciency and all

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
After reading through the entire tiffle, you completely missed the point of my thread VampRocker. The point was to debate in a civilized fashion. Not to come in arguing, calling names, and throwing insults.

In the end you did get owned.. badly.


I did? When? How?

And if I'm not mistaken, I thought it WAS about arguing. Well, at least that's what Sam has led me to believe. Either way, can you really dismiss my opinion? After all, I did offer you one at first, in the fashion you felt to be fit, but of course, things got a bit off track.

Hell, what else did you expect by posting such a poll? You opened up a pretty big can of worms there, bud. And I hate to say it, but this isn't I'mAFairy.com, so get over it.

[Sam The Egg]

You were the only one throwing around insults. Even I managed to express my opinion without insulting people. If I can do that but you can't, then something must be very wrong with you. Or I'm getting better.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
You were the only one throwing around insults. Even I managed to express my opinion without insulting people. If I can do that but you can't, then something must be very wrong with you. Or I'm getting better.

Becoming better or holier than thou?

You're full of shit, Sam. You try to run this board like it's your own, and when someone stands in your way of your "dominance," and when it's time to make one last ditch effort to beat that person...

...you actually say that you're "becoming better."

Yes, like posting pictures of the 9/11 attacks with the word "owned" plastered on it is incredibly mature and civil of you.

Congrats, you're a jackass!

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by VampRocker
I did? When? How?

And if I'm not mistaken, I thought it WAS about arguing. Well, at least that's what Sam has led me to believe. Either way, can you really dismiss my opinion? After all, I did offer you one at first, in the fashion you felt to be fit, but of course, things got a bit off track.

Hell, what else did you expect by posting such a poll? You opened up a pretty big can of worms there, bud. And I hate to say it, but this isn't I'mAFairy.com, so get over it.

Debating is not the same as arguing as Fluff said.

And yes I can dismiss your opinion, because you didn't stand up by it. All you did was begin to explain why yours was the one and only right opinion, to throw names, and to tell people to have "self-abortions."

Both Fluff and Sam have managed to offer their opinions without resorting to such childishness. The last time I experienced something like this was back in elementary school, when children argued about which Power Ranger was the best. Whoever liked the one everyone else didn't, would be called a "dookiehead" or something of the sort.

I was hoping that when talking about a subject such as this you would have at least brough some civility with you, but I was expecting too much. But who knows, give it a few days, and maybe others will follow down your path. I just hope they don't act as immature.

Just because Sam keeps posting tags, I'm gunna post one too.

You got owned like the child you are.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Becoming better or holier than thou?

You're full of shit, Sam. You try to run this board like it's your own, and when someone stands in your way of your "dominance," and when it's time to make one last ditch effort to beat that person...

...you actually say that you're "becoming better."

Yes, like posting pictures of the 9/11 attacks with the word "owned" plastered on it is incredibly mature and civil of you.

Congrats, you're a jackass!

Again with the insults. I don't run the board at all. That seems to be a recurring insult, and it gets lamer (more lame?) every time it's used.

[Sam The Egg]

http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3840

I predicted this, btw

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Again with the insults. I don't run the board at all. That seems to be a recurring insult, and it gets lamer (more lame?) every time it's used.

No, really, could I send you some pampers? You seem to be in some serious need of them...

"I don't run the board at all."

But you do try to run PEOPLE, right? You try to, oh, I don't know, "own them," if you will.

It's not an insult, it's a fact.

Oh, and please, post some more 9/11 pictures, dude! I so totally want to get in on the insult action! I mean, you know those people that died? They're such dorks!

And don't post bullshit about how it's not an insult to post 9/11 stuff. If anything, it's completely disrespectful of you to do so.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3840

I predicted this, btw

I did mention that in one of these three threads, I don't remember which one. Oh, it was to bwind, now I remember.

But VampRocker isn't a n00b, so Vamp,

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
I did mention that in one of these three threads, I don't remember which one. Oh, it was to bwind, now I remember.

But VampRocker isn't a n00b, so Vamp,

Thanks, guys!

I couldn't ask for better friends...

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
No, really, could I send you some pampers? You seem to be in some serious need of them...

"I don't run the board at all."

But you do try to run PEOPLE, right? You try to, oh, I don't know, "own them," if you will.

It's not an insult, it's a fact.

Oh, and please, post some more 9/11 pictures, dude! I so totally want to get in on the insult action! I mean, you know those people that died? They're such dorks!

And don't post bullshit about how it's not an insult to post 9/11 stuff. If anything, it's completely disrespectful of you to do so.

Ya know, funny thing about the 9/11 thing, I don't care! Sucks that they died, yeah, but am I all broken up about it? No, and I wasn't then either.
And no, I don't run people.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Ya know, funny thing about the 9/11 thing, I don't care! Sucks that they died, yeah, but am I all broken up about it? No, and I wasn't then either.
And no, I don't run people.

Well, at least you're honest about it. And since we're being so honest....

You're an asshole, Sam. I want nothing more for you to die. In a totally humane, though. Hey, I'm nice like that...

Wow. Honesty rocks.

[Sam The Egg]

That was either sarcasm or the last little bit of credibility and respect you had going for you dying. At this point I'd bet on the latter.

[coldwhisper]

break it up guys. you both know that arguing on the internet is pointless.:o save yourself the hulmiliation...

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Well, at least you're honest about it. And since we're being so honest....

You're an asshole, Sam. I want nothing more for you to die. In a totally humane, though. Hey, I'm nice like that...

Wow. Honesty rocks.

Hey, I want in too!

You're an idiot, Vamp. Plain and simple.

Me: What are your views on abortion?
You: I'm against it.
Fluff: I'm for it, partially.
You: You're a big meaniehead.
Sam: The fetus is not alive until brain develops.
You: Fuck you, asshole. You should die.
Fluff: How about my neighbor who was in a vegetative state?
You: Good thing they pulled the plug, go have a heartattack.

I'd go on, but in only gets worse from there.

[Sam The Egg]

I want nothing more for you to die.

That's the best thing I've ever heard on a message board.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
Hey, I want in too!

You're an idiot, Vamp. Plain and simple.

Me: What are your views on abortion?
You: I'm against it.
Fluff: I'm for it, partially.
You: You're a big meaniehead.
Sam: The fetus is not alive until brain develops.
You: Fuck you, asshole. You should die.
Fluff: How about my neighbor who was in a vegetative state?
You: Good thing they pulled the plug, go have a heartattack.

I'd go on, but in only gets worse from there.

...as that completley proves that you haven't read a word that I've said.

I'm against abortion. A child's life is, to me, existing upon conception. An abortion is murder, plain and simple. I never wanted Fluffles neighbor to be denied life by having the plug pulled on her. I was clearly against that. Obviously, you were too busy thinking up clever comebacks to notice. I think Sam's a jackass. I think Flufflewufflegus is an asslicker. I don't want neither of them to die. I'm simply rooting from the sidelines to have nature take it's course earlier on those two...

Maybe I do want them dead. Oh, well. At least I'm being honest!

You: Your opinion is dismissed, I shall now wow you with imagery of said dismissal.
Me: Awesome.
You: Hold on for a sec, let me come up with something intelligent to say...
Fluff: I'm better than you! I'M SMART! Look at my test scores!
You: Okay, here's something witty...::insert faux conversation you made between us::
Me: You didn't read anything I've said, have you?

[Rotting Eye]

I've read plenty of what you've said. You told Sam to leave, and Fluff that her mother should have had an abortion. Oh, and that she should have a heartattack.

And fine, I got that thing backwards, they shouldn't have pulled the plug. You're right, she should have just laid there as a vegetable for the next 20 years or so right? But why pull the plug even then? I can understand not pulling the plug on Terry Schiavo. She was responsive, Fluff said her neighbor was not - she was brain dead. She had not one brain aneurism, but two. There was hope after the first, buit not after the second. Do you what a brain aneurism is? Do you know what braindead is? If you can say yes, then fine. You can say she should have stayed there alive, in a hospital, alive without a brain. But as long as she looks like she's living, right? If you want your family members to live like that, that's your perogative. In a bed, only alive through lifesupport.

She even asked you to go look it up, and respond. But did you? No. You told her to go have a heartattack. Very mature.

And go on and bring up Fluff's intelligence. She brought up that she got into the 11th ranked university, maybe because she does have some intelligence. Maybe just because it wasn't displayed here, doesn't mean that she's stupid. And guess what, stupid people don't get into high ranking universities. You haven't shown anything. What school do you go to? What degree do you have? I can imagine you writing a term paper filled with cusswords, and all the reasons you're right, and how everyone who is against you should die. See how far that gets you.

Just like whoever said, I didn't think you were an asshole, until now. And you're worse than I've ever seen Sam, and you know how he is :rolleyes:

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
I've read plenty of what you've said. You told Sam to leave, and Fluff that her mother should have had an abortion. Oh, and that she should have a heartattack.

And fine, I got that thing backwards, they shouldn't have pulled the plug. You're right, she should have just laid there as a vegetable for the next 20 years or so right? But why pull the plug even then? I can understand not pulling the plug on Terry Schiavo. She was responsive, Fluff said her neighbor was not - she was brain dead. She had not one brain aneurism, but two. There was hope after the first, buit not after the second. Do you what a brain aneurism is? Do you know what braindead is? If you can say yes, then fine. You can say she should have stayed there alive, in a hospital, alive without a brain. But as long as she looks like she's living, right? If you want your family members to live like that, that's your perogative. In a bed, only alive through lifesupport.

She even asked you to go look it up, and respond. But did you? No. You told her to go have a heartattack. Very mature.

And go on and bring up Fluff's intelligence. She brought up that she got into the 11th ranked university, maybe because she does have some intelligence. Maybe just because it wasn't displayed here, doesn't mean that she's stupid. And guess what, stupid people don't get into high ranking universities. You haven't shown anything. What school do you go to? What degree do you have? I can imagine you writing a term paper filled with cusswords, and all the reasons you're right, and how everyone who is against you should die. See how far that gets you.

Just like whoever said, I didn't think you were an asshole, until now. And you're worse than I've ever seen Sam, and you know how he is :rolleyes:


Nice. Real nice. Where do I start?

"I've read plenty of what you've said. You told Sam to leave, and Fluff that her mother should have had an abortion. Oh, and that she should have a heartattack."

Merely icing on the proverbial cake. What's it to you that I tell Sam to leave or Fluffy to die? Hey, it's just a little harmless fun. Oh, wait...are you jealous? Oh, hey there, big guy, I can tell you to die, too! But since I like you, I won't. But you'll have to leave. Now scoot, kid.

Oh, hey, can I ask you something? Are you God? If so, can you tell me when life begins and when it's a guilt-free move to murder someone? Whoops. I brought up religion. Okay, how about...are you a higher entity? Or is that still religion related? This is some tricky stuff...

If my father had an anuerism and was brain dead, I would never pull the plug on him. That's a complete bullshit, weak move. I'd do everything to keep him alive and allow his death to occur when it was "supposed to." I wouldn't be so callous and cold to assume that his life was over, now that I had the choice to determine myself, whether it was or was not. What gives you the right to do such a thing? How can you judge whether or not he's "so dead that it's a-okay to complete the job?"

"And go on and bring up Fluff's intelligence. She brought up that she got into the 11th ranked university, maybe because she does have some intelligence"

I never said she wasn't. I was merely bringing up the point that she seemed pretty insecure about it. If she was intelligent, she wouldn't have brought up such a lame thing in the first place, to wow the non-believers. Thanks, Fluffster, you sure showed me! Now can you show me a sentence free off asinine errors? Thanks.

[Sam The Egg]

No, he's not God, and neither are you. You get on us for saying when life begins or ends, but then you're doing the same thing.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
No, he's not God, and neither are you. You get on us for saying when life begins or ends, but then you're doing the same thing.

Never said that. I just wanted to make sure to let you know that I can't and will most likely never know when life begins and when it's officially over. I have too much respect to play around with such an amazing thing as human life.

You guys are playing God by assuming that you do know, or at least "know enough" to fuck around with human life by enjoying the simplistic last resort of abortion and the pain free, easy route of killing people off just because, hey, they're probably dead!

[Sam The Egg]

You're assuming that I'm for abortion. I mean, I've said twice that I'm not really FOR abortion, but I'm probably still for it. I mean, what do I know about my views on things? Certainly not as much as you do.


And I didn't say when life begins at all. I said when it begins to be a human. You're all hung up on human lives, but it's not human for 2 whole months at least

[Rotting Eye]

It just doesn't end with you does it?

I have my belief as to when life begins, but I don't rub it in other people's faces. You have your beliefs, and you begin to yell at people if they don't agree with you.

If you want to debate, great. Debating is a good thing! But you completely degrade yourself when you start calling names, and saying people should die. Did Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Ghandi, or any other great civil rights activists, pull any of the shit you did? No, because that would demean them. It would have made them look like idiots, no matter how smart they were. If King had have said "we should kill all white people because they're fucking ignorant rednecks" it would have made him no better than the whites opressing him. He was assassinated because people couldn't stand that he was more than just an "angry black man". He was actually using his brains, and caused many blacks, and whites, to do the same.

I'm tired of you, so if you want to reply to this fine, I'm just going to ignore your posts from now on. It's like a few people have already said, I didn't think you were an asshole up until now. I thought that it had ended with SFF, apparently I was wrong, and I don't feel like putting up with another.

[VampRocker]

Well, shit.

Listen, I don't want to be an asshole. I never wanted to be one. The entire time I've ever been on this site was to contribute once every week. I've "lost my head" with the topic of abortion, and I understand that.

Now, no one has "owned" me on this because I'm backing off, and if anyone does mention the "owning of anyone," I swear you'll never hear the end of me. Maybe I'm just tired of this ridiculousness, or maybe I understand I've gone about this in all the wrong ways...

...naw. My way rocks.

Sam, Fluff, Rotty, I'm calling a truce. You're all very intelligent individuals, and maybe that's why I enjoy the "online battles" we've been having. It's a nice change of pace.

And as one last, final word:

I'm right. You're wrong!

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by VampRocker
I'm calling a truce.
I'm wrong!


Good, I can sleep now

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Good, I can sleep now, now that I know I'm wrong, and have been this entire time.

Thanks, buddy. For a second there I thought I would have to put on another pot of coffee...

I'm hittin' the hay.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
BTW, I find it odd that every Pro-Life person I know is for the death penalty


Let me see if I can explain this one for you, so that you won't find it so "odd"...

There is a slight difference between killing an innocent, unborn baby, and killing a murderer:rolleyes:

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
I still believe that it's not a human until it has the physical characteristics of a human, ie: Lungs, Spinal chord, all that.


So, now I'm wondering just exactly what it was that I was carrying in my womb when I was pregnant...Hmmm...Was it a rabbit maybe?...No...wait...You said "not a mammal"...Okay, so maybe it was a fish...but, no backbone...a slug?...Oh well, whatever it WAS, I sure am glad that it happened to TURN INTO a human being...:rolleyes:

BTW...I was just assuming that it was a human being because animals generally tend to reproduce whatever they happen to be...At least that's been my experience...I also think that people WANT to believe that it isn't a baby, because that makes it much easier to accept the thought of killing it

Also...For all the things you've mentioned " Lungs, Spinal chord, all that"...You left out the fact that "it" has a beating heart

[Haunted]

Holy shit!!!

This thread is really hot. I can't decide whether to really give my feelings on the topic. ...I will, though...

Three years ago I had a miscarriage. It was the worst experience of my life. I was in the first trimester of my pregnancy. I can honestly say that it was a baby inside me. It was alive, and I loved it. (I use the pronoun "it" because at such a young age, the sex organs aren't fully developed). These were just maternal feelings inside of me. Valid? For me they were. For other people...it wasn't.

I say, that the fetus is alive. However, I can't make that call for everyone.

[cheebacheeba]

"However, I can't make that call for everyone."
Finally, someone who realises that arguing the point isn't gonne get anywhere.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
So, now I'm wondering just exactly what it was that I was carrying in my womb when I was pregnant...Hmmm...Was it a rabbit maybe?...No...wait...You said "not a mammal"...Okay, so maybe it was a fish...but, no backbone...a slug?...Oh well, whatever it WAS, I sure am glad that it happened to TURN INTO a human being...:rolleyes:

BTW...I was just assuming that it was a human being because animals generally tend to reproduce whatever they happen to be...At least that's been my experience...I also think that people WANT to believe that it isn't a baby, because that makes it much easier to accept the thought of killing it

Also...For all the things you've mentioned " Lungs, Spinal chord, all that"...You left out the fact that "it" has a beating heart

Hey, no need for all that just because I like to base my opinions on facts.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
Let me see if I can explain this one for you, so that you won't find it so "odd"...

There is a slight difference between killing an innocent, unborn baby, and killing a murderer:rolleyes:

Hey, killing is killing. If you're so big on life then you shouldn't want to kill anything.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Hey, killing is killing. If you're so big on life then you shouldn't want to kill anything.


So then...Killing a cockroach would be the same as killing a person?...Hmmm...maybe SOME people...Okay, you just might have a point there, Sam

[Sam The Egg]

If you kill anything, you're not pro-life.

[Sam The Egg]

I'm still waiting for one solid fact to back up making them illegal. If all you have is personal beliefs then I'm waisting my time again.

[Angelakillsluts]

I just wanted to say that Vamprocker needed to shut the hell up a few pages ago. People like him piss me off more than anything.

[Sam The Egg]

Yeah, I was kinda surprised at him, too.

[cheebacheeba]

Yeah...I don't wanna diss him here, but for a "vamp", he sure seems to love the ol' cross-related, huh?

[Sam The Egg]

yup

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Alright, alright. I'm religious. There's your answer, fuckface.

Well, not that religious.

I've never made any personal attacks on anyone...at first. I simply stated my opinion, maybe insinuated that you pro-choice rat bastards are all murderers, but never called you a douchebag or Fluffy Wuffy a slutbucket. Well, I did just call you a fuckface, but it was more out of dramatical effect than personal hate. You know what I mean? Sure you do. You know everything!

I will re-iterate a point here:

Vamp, when you start adopting and funding unwanted children, i think you then have a right to say something. Until then, go away. Is it better for a child to be brought up unwanted and abused? I guess so. AT least you didnt kill it. Much better for it to suffer for years and years rather than not know pain, ever.

[Ritualistic]

When the fetus is conceived it is a SOUL so therefore it is a person.. I take abortion to offense because my father wanted my mother to have an abortion and if she had today I would not be here. In most cases it is people being irresponsible when they are having sex that end up having abortions. It is rare when a woman is raped and gets pregnant. it does happen but everone needs to read the statistics. If you are responsible to have sex then you should be responsible to take care of a baby. Someone metioned about a condom breaking well then just pull out everytime. I just think when people have abortions they are trying to get out easy, it is like this you fucked then fucking take care of the baby. Did anyone ever see Real World years ago when one of the girls on there had an abortion well now the bitch has 2 or 3 children.. WTF!!! having an abortion is no different than me going out and placing someone inside a horses belly and sucking them out through the vagina and ripping their brain out in the process, then throwing them in a big bucket..

[Sam The Egg]

If you think it has a soul, which makes it human, which makes abortion wrong, that's fine for you. But you can't make it illegal based on that.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Angelakillsluts
I just wanted to say that Vamprocker needed to shut the hell up a few pages ago. People like him piss me off more than anything.

Oh, why, thank you!

Honestly, I have no idea how I pissed anybody off. No, really, I don't. By arguing? Or was it because I threw in some "four letter words" that annoyed everyone? If that's the case, I hardly doubt that's the last thing you should worry about WHEN ARGUING OVER THE JUSTIFICATION OF MURDERING A HUMAN CHILD.

[Sam The Egg]

Maybe it's the fact that instead of discussing it and being civil you did nothing but insult people and wish that they'd die.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Vodstok
I will re-iterate a point here:

Vamp, when you start adopting and funding unwanted children, i think you then have a right to say something. Until then, go away. Is it better for a child to be brought up unwanted and abused? I guess so. AT least you didnt kill it. Much better for it to suffer for years and years rather than not know pain, ever.

So you're saying it's "easier" to kill unwanted children?

Hey, Vodstok, can I kill you? I don't like you, nor will I ever want you, so, based on your theory, I'm allowed to take your life, right? Oh, wait, does that only apply to children? Yeah, I suppose so, since they're so young and inncont...

It's easier!

Way to go, jackass, proving to everyone that you find it much more simpler to murder a human being then to let it live and have a chance at living. Why do you think that YOU have that right, anyways?

Go away.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by cheebacheeba
Yeah...I don't wanna diss him here, but for a "vamp", he sure seems to love the ol' cross-related, huh?

Oh, there are different type of breeds. Don't worry about it...

[Arioch]

If you think it has a soul, which makes it human, which makes abortion wrong, that's fine for you. But you can't make it illegal based on that.

This is the way ive always felt. While some people have huge moral issues over this, i dont see where its anyones right (in any situation) to tell others what they CAN and CANT do to THIER OWN BODIES thats just government stepping in where it doesnt belong.

If you think its evil and wrong then dont have one, but i think its crazy to say "i think its evil, so YOU CANT HAVE ONE". i just dont understand that logic.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Arioch
This is the way ive always felt. While some people have huge moral issues over this, i dont see where its anyones right (in any situation) to tell others what they CAN and CANT do to THIER OWN BODIES thats just government stepping in where it doesnt belong.

If you think its evil and wrong then dont have one, but i think its crazy to say "i think its evil, so YOU CANT HAVE ONE". i just dont understand that logic.

THANK YOU! That's the point I've been trying to make the whole time. Maybe they'll listen to you. *doubts it*

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Arioch


If you think its evil and wrong then dont have one, but i think its crazy to say "i think its evil, so YOU CANT HAVE ONE". i just dont understand that logic.

Well, if you were raised to think murder was alright, don't you think you'd be mad at the government for outlawing it? You'd be pissed.

If you think abortion is murder, you'd be horrified to think that the government would allow a go-ahead on it.

If abortion is legal, I only find it fair that manslaughter (towards humans out of the womb) be legal, too.

I just wanna play fair.

[Sam The Egg]

out of the womb: Fully developed, human
in the womb: not developed, not human for like 2 months

There's evidence to back up that theory, where's the evidence to back up yours? I've asked a bunch of times, and noboby's given me any.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
out of the womb: Fully developed, human
in the womb: not developed, not human for like 2 months

There's evidence to back up that theory, where's the evidence to back up yours? I've asked a bunch of times, and noboby's given me any.

Haven't I explained it? I think I've explained it...

"in the womb: not developed, not human for like 2 months"

How do you know that? How can ANYBODY know that? It's playing God to assume you do know, for a fact, how humans are created. What do scientists know?

[Arioch]

ok ill grant you that Vamp. But i think once you give the government power to make and break laws governing OTHER PEOPLES morals, its a slippery slope.

Its different with murder, thats infrindging on another persons body, but we're talkin abortion laws here. Thats pretty much saying "you cannot do this to YOUR OWN body, because WE think its wrong".

Granted, the issue we are really trying to resolve is : how long does it take for the fetus to become a living thing, and this is debatable. I think 3rd trimester abortions SHOULD be outlawed because its had so long to develop.

But im personally a fan of making my own decisions, and i think to deny anyone their own right to decide about THEIR own body is dangerous territory.

[Sam The Egg]

they know what makes something a mammal, they know that humans are mammals, and they know when the different things develop.


No, you haven't explained it. Unless "Sam and Fluffho should die" is your explanation

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Arioch
ok ill grant you that Vamp. But i think once you give the government power to make and break laws governing OTHER PEOPLES morals, its a slippery slope.

Its different with murder, thats infrindging on another persons body, but we're talkin abortion laws here. Thats pretty much saying "you cannot do this to YOUR OWN body, because WE think its wrong".

Granted, the issue we are really trying to resolve is : how long does it take for the fetus to become a living thing, and this is debatable. I think 3rd trimester abortions SHOULD be outlawed because its had so long to develop.

But im personally a fan of making my own decisions, and i think to deny anyone their own right to decide about THEIR own body is dangerous territory.

I'm just arguing when it's human. A lot of things are living and we kill them all the time. Animals, plants, even bacteria are all living things. But they're not human so nobody cares.

BTW, do animals not have souls?

[PsychoticPanda]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Haven't I explained it? I think I've explained it...

"in the womb: not developed, not human for like 2 months"

How do you know that? How can ANYBODY know that? It's playing God to assume you do know, for a fact, how humans are created. What do scientists know?

You're right. It doesn't matter it it's just a fetus, or something. It's still a human life, OR a potential human life. And it's still murder IMO.

If you don't want the baby, give it up for adoption. Don't kill it.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by PsychoticPanda
You're right. It doesn't matter it it's just a fetus, or something. It's still a human life, OR a potential human life. And it's still murder IMO.

If you don't want the baby, give it up for adoption. Don't kill it.

Oh, POTENTIAL human life? Well, each sperm is potential human life, do you think we should outlaw masturbation and birth control?

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Arioch
Its different with murder, thats infrindging on another persons body, and i think to deny anyone their own right to decide about THEIR own body is dangerous territory.


What about the BABY's body?...I don't give a damn what anyone does to their OWN body...If someone wants to cut their arm off, or blow their fucking brains out, I really don't give a shit...I'm talking about what they're doing to the BABY...By the way, It's the decision they made about what to DO WITH THEIR BODY, that got them pregnant in the first place...People need to take some responsibility for their actions...DAMN

[Sam The Egg]

By the way, It's the decision they made about what to DO WITH THEIR BODY, that got them pregnant in the first place...People need to take some responsibility for their actions...DAMN

Once again, what about cases in which she was raped?

And Rotting Eye already went over this, so I'll just quote him:
Technically, the genetic composition may be different, but it's still a part of a woman's body. Until the baby can function without having to depend on the umbilical cord, it's connected, and part of the body. It's almost like a bud, or extension of the woman...

[Rotting Eye]

Seperating church and state, things in the womb do not have souls.

Based on what Sam has been saying, which is fact, babies don't even start to develop anything vital until after the first few months. How do you murder something that isn't even alive? Take away the umbilical cord, and that fetus is going to die.

And stop giving these "what if" situations. You have to look both ways.

Also, as far as I'm concerned scientists are playing God.. God intended for man and woman to conceive a child, and that child inherits all their traits from mom and dad. Anyone watch the news? I don't know if it's another hoax, but someone has claimed to have cloned a human. What comes next? DNA splicing as to change the traits of a child (ex: hair color, genetic diseases, height, etc etc.) Sounds like God's job.

Here's something else to think about: babies are a parasite heh. Want a definition?
"Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host."

[PsychoticPanda]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Oh, POTENTIAL human life? Well, each sperm is potential human life, do you think we should outlaw masturbation and birth control?

I think killing babies is a little different than masturbation...

If you don't want babies, then unless a man forces himself upon a woman, maybe she should keep her legs together. THAT is choice. People say "Pro choice, a woman should choose whether she wants the baby, or not." When, most the time you can choose to have sex or not. Which is choosing to be pregnant, or not.

[Sam The Egg]

I was about to bring up the parasite thing. It's true.
They still won't care, though.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
What about the BABY's body?...I don't give a damn what anyone does to their OWN body...If someone wants to cut their arm off, or blow their fucking brains out, I really don't give a shit...I'm talking about what they're doing to the BABY...By the way, It's the decision they made about what to DO WITH THEIR BODY, that got them pregnant in the first place...People need to take some responsibility for their actions...DAMN

1) What Sam quoted me.

2) People do take responsibilities for their actions. Look up the statistics on birth control. I don't remember them exactly. Condoms 93% effective, the pill 99.8%, IUDs 96%, etc etc..
Abstinence is the only 100%. Who doesn't like to have sex? Give me a break... That's why birth control was invented. People do take responsibilities for their actions, but mistakes still happen.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by PsychoticPanda
I think killing babies is a little different than masturbation...

If you don't want babies, then unless a man forces himself upon a woman, maybe she should keep her legs together. THAT is choice. People say "Pro choice, a woman should choose whether she wants the baby, or not." When, most the time you can choose to have sex or not. Which is choosing to be pregnant, or not.

It's not a baby, it's a POTENTIAL baby. And if you bring potential into it, then you can't ignore everything except what you want to count.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by PsychoticPanda
I think killing babies is a little different than masturbation...

If you don't want babies, then unless a man forces himself upon a woman, maybe she should keep her legs together. THAT is choice. People say "Pro choice, a woman should choose whether she wants the baby, or not." When, most the time you can choose to have sex or not. Which is choosing to be pregnant, or not.

Everytime a woman menstruates, or a male ejaculates there's possibility of a child. Hell, for every one child to be born, millions of other sperm die.. Those are all possible children.

Maybe the secret is, we should just stop having altogether kids, to save everyone!! YES I FOUND THE ANSWER! -_-

Then again there are still wet dreams...

If you want to fight semantics, let's do it :p

[Sam The Egg]

Oooh, I'm good at that.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Oooh, I'm good at that.

Yar, matey.

[PsychoticPanda]

Maybe I was off with the potential thing.

But, it could already be a life. Think, and everything. How are we supposed to know? We can't know. So if you don't want a baby don't put yourself in a position to have one. I don't think of it a an "extension of a woman" it's, it's own life. Or you could just put yourself in the babies shoes. What if you never got a chance to live?

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by PsychoticPanda
Maybe I was off with the potential thing.

But, it could already be a life. Think, and everything. How are we supposed to know? We can't know. So if you don't want a baby don't put yourself in a position to have one. I don't think of it a an "extension of a woman" it's, it's own life. Or you could just put yourself in the babies shoes. What is you never got a chance to live?

Okay, lets ignore all facts for a moment. How are we supposed to know? We don't. So why is it right for only your beliefs to affect laws? You only know as much as everybody else, so why is your opinion the right one?

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by PsychoticPanda
Maybe I was off with the potential thing.

But, it could already be a life. Think, and everything. How are we supposed to know? We can't know. So if you don't want a baby don't put yourself in a position to have one. I don't think of it a an "extension of a woman" it's, it's own life. Or you could just put yourself in the babies shoes. What if you never got a chance to live?

First of all I see several "what if" statements.
..
...
....

Second, it's not a life, and it can't think until a brain develops. Even then, not until the brain begins to function. Or can you really think without a brain, or function while braindead?

[PsychoticPanda]

It might have an undeveleoped, or only partially developed brain, not able to think, but it would still have a soul. Besides, like I said, how do we know it can't think?

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by PsychoticPanda
It might have an undeveleoped, or only partially developed brain, not able to think, but it would still have a soul. Besides, like I said, how do we know it can't think?

You keep going back to the soul, and it never gets any more valid. There's proof that supports everything I've said, but you have yet to proove that it has a soul.

Soul = Religion, and religion DOES NOT BELONG in this.

[PsychoticPanda]

Well, I believe it has a soul. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's my religion, I don't know. But it's just my opinion. Maybe my religion is where my opinion's coming from. Even if didn't have a soul, I still think it's murder.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by PsychoticPanda
Well, I believe it has a soul. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's my religion, I don't know. But it's just my opinion. Maybe my religion is where my opinion's coming from. Even if didn't have a soul, I still think it's murder.

Then leave religion out of it, and try to base your opinion around it being murder.

Begin.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
Then leave religion out of it, and try to base your opinion around it being murder.

Begin.

I don't think it'll happen

[Arioch]

So why is it right for only your beliefs to affect laws? You only know as much as everybody else, so why is your opinion the right one?

That statement could/ and should be applied to all these political polls and threads ive been seeing here.

You people have to pull your head out of your own opinion for a second and look at the bigger picture. It doesnt matter if you think its wrong or not, hell i personally think its wrong, what matters is SHOULD YOUR OPINION BE HELD ABOVE OTHERS AS LAW??!!??.

I think no opinion should opress a persons right to think and decide for themselves and their offspring (alive or not).

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
What about the BABY's body?...I don't give a damn what anyone does to their OWN body...If someone wants to cut their arm off, or blow their fucking brains out, I really don't give a shit...I'm talking about what they're doing to the BABY...By the way, It's the decision they made about what to DO WITH THEIR BODY, that got them pregnant in the first place...People need to take some responsibility for their actions...DAMN

I agree.

A "woman's choice" is bullshit. It's not her choice, and if she says that it is in fact her choice, she is a completely selfish, callous person.

Everyone who falls back on science is close minded. How can you believe science? They update science facts and data all the time! Science is, for lack of a better word, bullshit. What about the "Big Bang?" How the fuck can you prove that?

Easy. You wear glasses, you go to school for a while and study galaxies, you tell someone that it happened and they believe you. Sounds fun, where do I sign up?!

No. Nobody argue the "Big Bang" theory. Just don't.

Also, Rotty wrote:

"Second, it's not a life, and it can't think until a brain develops. Even then, not until the brain begins to function. Or can you really think without a brain, or function while braindead?"

Since you've guys been throwing the "how do you know?" question like you're the first person to utter that phrase...

How do YOU know? Scientific fact? But I thought no one knew more than anybody else? Isn't that what you just said?

I care if innocent children are killed, but go ahead and do so if you like. I can't stop the millions of deaths from happening. It's cool if you want to participate in abortion.

Have fun, Hitler!

[Rotting Eye]

It is a woman's choice. It's her body. She carries the parasite around for nine months. She gives birth. And goes through all of the pain.

When you tell me it's not her body, then who's is it?

Science is around for a reason. For example, without it we'd probably all be long dead from the millions of diseases out there. So many more people would die in childbirth without science... Yes.. I see now, science uncovers nothing. They're all a bunch of quacks.

Autopsies are performed for a reason - to learn. When there's no vital organs present in a fetus, that information is written down. As fact. This stuff isn't made up.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Okay, lets ignore all facts for a moment. How are we supposed to know? We don't. So why is it right for only your beliefs to affect laws? You only know as much as everybody else, so why is your opinion the right one?

That is the exact quote. The "How do you know?" was in response to all of you throwing it around. You were the one saying "How do you know" to everything. I said nobody knows more than anybody else in the post where I said Let's ignore all facts for a moment. Stop only reading parts of the posts and then taking them out of context.

[fluffho]

i was under the impression that Vamp kind of 'apologized' about his actions the other day. how he went over his head, went about things the wrong way

so im beginnign to think 'hey, this dude aint such an ass. it takes a bigger man/woman to apologize'

but here he goes again.. 'Have fun Hitler'

Vamp yo ucan reply to this if you want. but just like Rotting said, i dont even wanna mess with you anymore. i had enough with SFF as well

ARIOCH: your last 2 statements. i'm not sure those made sense. You are against abortion, i am for it (partially). That i understand. now you're first statement "what matters is SHOULD YOUR OPINION BE HELD ABOVE OTHERS AS LAW"

well, maybe i'm reading you incorrectly, but Yes, some opinion IS held above others as law. the opinion that 'abortion is murder' IS the law. only in a few places are abortions allowed, and even then there is a shitload of scrutiny. how about that abortion doctor that was just murdered?

your next statement, "I think no opinion should opress a persons right to think and decide for themselves and their offspring (alive or not)." is this possible? THe opinion that 'abortion is murder' opresses those with the opinion 'it is my body, my choice' and vice versa.

i dont mean to nitpick. i just wasnt sure hwat you were talking about

[Rotting Eye]

I second that thing about Vamp.

I was reading his most recent post, and I thought when he previously apologized he really meant it. Until I got to the end and read that Hitler crap. Geez... What an idiot. Do you know how stupid that made you look? The little redemption you earned just went back to nil.

I was considering listening to you again, but fuck that. You're a complete asshole. And I'm not alone when I say that.

And for anyone to say science is bullshit.. OMGWTF BAN PLZ!

[Nate]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rotting Eye
[B]It is a woman's choice. It's her body. She carries the parasite around for nine months. She gives birth. And goes through all of the pain.

Ya and its the infants body your destroying.who is giving the infant a choice?? are you saying the mothers life is more important then an infants??Im against abortion if you cant tell by now.There is only one way i could see an abortion done and thats if the womans life was seriously at risk if she had this baby other then that there really is no excuse.Its easy for you people to say its ok to have an abortion but what if it was you that was being aborted??Wouldnt you want a choice in whether u live or die? ya i think u would

[fluffho]

well considering rotting wouldnt have had a brain..... it wouldnt have mattered if he was aborted

im not sure about the others, but when i'm talking i'm only talking about 1st trimester abortions

i dont believe in partial births, although in the case of teenagers (15 minutes away, is where m cousin lives. i live in suburbia and she lives in the 'ghetto suburbia.' many of her friends have become pregnant, 3 i can think of in particular... 14 and 15 years old...) i would make a mandatory adoption. although i know that will never happen, cuz that would infringe on her rights or some shit. but how about school? how bout ur kid? thats what pisses me off

[Sam The Egg]

Enough with the What-If's. You can say What-If anything, it doesn't support your argument.

Yes, the mother's life is more important than the fetus'. You can't say 'Aww, but what about the BABY'S choice?' becaue it's not capable of making choices.

I say to you the same thing I've said to everybody else in here: Give evidence, solid factual evidence, to support the banning of abortions. If not, you've got nothing.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by Nate
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rotting Eye
[B]It is a woman's choice. It's her body. She carries the parasite around for nine months. She gives birth. And goes through all of the pain.

Ya and its the infants body your destroying.who is giving the infant a choice?? are you saying the mothers life is more important then an infants??Im against abortion if you cant tell by now.There is only one way i could see an abortion done and thats if the womans life was seriously at risk if she had this baby other then that there really is no excuse.Its easy for you people to say its ok to have an abortion but what if it was you that was being aborted??Wouldnt you want a choice in whether u live or die? ya i think u would

You can't put a value on someone's life.. Neither the babie's nor the mother's life is more important per say...

Yes you are disposing of the infant's body, but it's still a part of the mother's. It's a part of her and no one else.

And... damnit, Fluff already beat me to what I was going to say.

[Sam The Egg]

I don't know trimesters. Is it like a set thing, like every so many weeks you're in the next trimester, or what?

[Tiny Terror]

babies are dum, i think if you dont want it just kill it1!

hehe

lol

:cool:

[fluffho]

pregnancy is 9 months, 3 trimesters, 3 months each

the worst thing i heard, was from a buddhist.. now people are always talking about 'buddhism is the only religion i respect' oooh i have some stories

well anyway. i guess theyre supposed to be happy with everything. a girl at 14 has a child. her grandmother says 'ohhh.. now i am a great, great grandmother'

wtf? your proud that your teenage girl has given birth to a bastard child? HOORAY FOR BUDDHISM

oh heres another one 'if you kill an animal and enjoy it, thats wrong. but if you kill an animal becuase you have the will to live, its ok to eat it'

... buddha was against meat eating. period. i love how religions switch shit aroudn to fit what they want

EDIT: tiny, now im not sure about your wording. but for once, i actually, kind of, sorta, agree with you

[Rotting Eye]

First trimester- first 3 months
Second- second 3 months
Third- last 3 months

:D

[Sam The Egg]

why hasn't he been banned yet?

[Sam The Egg]

Oh. Ok, thx

[Rotting Eye]

Someone hasn't been doing their job :P

[Rotting Eye]

OMG BUDDHISM

[Tiny Terror]

wow roting i new u were gay, butt i did not no you looked like it!

lol

[Nate]

I dont think u should call vamprocker an asshole u have to realize this is a touchy subject and some people get pissed off by the thought of abortion.Me im against it ya but the law is the law and im not some radical that will tryen change it.Although i respect the opinions of everyone i dont wanna hear about 1st trimester second trimester crap.Fact of the matter is it is a fetus growing everyday and to me thats where life starts thats life in progress from the very beggining.So your going to use that it doesnt have a brain as an excuse??You need to come up with something better then that.I mean u act like since its inside the mother its like a damn catfish or something.it is a human life form however miniscule it is at the time thats what its destined to become so therefore to me abortion is wrong and thats all ill post on the subject.

Im not being like a dick or anything just trying to point my side out alittle clearer

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Nate
I dont think u should call vamprocker an asshole u have to realize this is a touchy subject and some people get pissed off by the thought of abortion.Me im against it ya but the law is the law and im not some radical that will tryen change it.Although i respect the opinions of everyone i dont wanna hear about 1st trimester second trimester crap.Fact of the matter is it is a fetus growing everyday and to me thats where life starts thats life in progress from the very beggining.So your going to use that it doesnt have a brain as an excuse??You need to come up with something better then that.I mean u act like since its inside the mother its like a damn catfish or something.it is a human life form however miniscule it is at the time thats what its destined to become so therefore to me abortion is wrong and thats all ill post on the subject.

Im not being like a dick or anything just trying to point my side out alittle clearer

Yes, it is a touchy subject, and many of us have been able to stay civil. Vamp hasn't.

So your going to use that it doesnt have a brain as an excuse??You need to come up with something better then that.

How about YOU come up with something? Don't bring any religion into it, don't say it has a soul, just fact. As I've said, it's not even a mammal until it has the backbone and lungs at least, and it doesn't have those for 8 weeks.

Nobody who is against abortion has come up with ONE solid reason as to why it should be illegal. Not one.

[Rotting Eye]

Tiny- haha, that actually made me laugh.

Originally posted by Nate
I dont think u should call vamprocker an asshole u have to realize this is a touchy subject and some people get pissed off by the thought of abortion.Me im against it ya but the law is the law and im not some radical that will tryen change it.Although i respect the opinions of everyone i dont wanna hear about 1st trimester second trimester crap.Fact of the matter is it is a fetus growing everyday and to me thats where life starts thats life in progress from the very beggining.So your going to use that it doesnt have a brain as an excuse??You need to come up with something better then that.I mean u act like since its inside the mother its like a damn catfish or something.it is a human life form however miniscule it is at the time thats what its destined to become so therefore to me abortion is wrong and thats all ill post on the subject.

Im not being like a dick or anything just trying to point my side out alittle clearer

And the problem with Vamp is that he was not being civil in his arguements. Civility does not include calling names, and telling other people to kill themselves. Yes, people get heated in arguments. People also need to show self-control, otherwise they look ignorant.

The trimester stuff is all fact, so deal with it.

And no, it's not a catfish. It's a parasite. I thought we had already established that.

[Nate]

[i]Originally posted by Sam The Egg [/i
How about YOU come up with something? Don't bring any religion into it, don't say it has a soul, just fact. As I've said, it's not even a mammal until it has the backbone and lungs at least, and it doesn't have those for 8 weeks.

Nobody who is against abortion has come up with ONE solid reason as to why it should be illegal. Not one. [/B]

I dont use religion to state my opinions im not even a religious person.Where in any of my posts did i bring up religion??You want to use science to back up your statements.but the fact is science is rewritten all the time so you cant base shit on that either.And rotting eye a parasite?? lmao thats the best one ive heard yet.I think alot of people would change there mind if they ever seen an abortion first hand like i have.maybe some have but i am pretty sure most havent.

I dont know a single person thats ever witnessed one then come out saying there for it so i think its something u have to experience.

[VampRocker]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
I second that thing about Vamp.

I was reading his most recent post, and I thought when he previously apologized he really meant it. Until I got to the end and read that Hitler crap. Geez... What an idiot. Do you know how stupid that made you look? The little redemption you earned just went back to nil.

I was considering listening to you again, but fuck that. You're a complete asshole. And I'm not alone when I say that.

And for anyone to say science is bullshit.. OMGWTF BAN PLZ!

Perfect. I think you're an asshole, too.

And what's wrong with calling people who have abortions "Hitler?" Please, for my own sanity, how the fuck is that more "stupid" than posting pictures of 9/11 and other fucking insensitive things?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hitler want to create his own "super race?" Through killing ones who weren't adequate, the ones who weren't up to standard and the ones he just didn't want to think about and be a part of his world?

Wow, that sounds like abortion, doesn't it? Awesome, d00d.

Way to take offense, Adolf. Do you need a tissue?

[VampRocker]

As for calling a child in it's mother womb a parasite...

Why don't we call parasites babies, instead? It's just a word, isn't it? Or do you actually consider a human child nothing more than a parisitic blob of flesh?

[Angelakillsluts]

Nate said he isn't religious and he thinks science is bullshit. I find that even funnier. I can't believe some people...

It's true that people get heated. I'm keeping out of it because if I got in to it you'd all think I was SFF. :p

[Arioch]

This threads degrading pretty fast, as we all knew it would, but if you guys wanna discuss it rationally ill pop back in.

[Sam The Egg]

I'm still waiting for them to use fact. Yes, science is re-written, and the second they come up with facts that say they're humans the whole time, or that they have souls, fine. But as of right now, the things that classify something as a mammal include both lungs and a spinal chord. They don't have those until 8 weeks in. That is fact. You don't have facts. None of you. You whine about them being living humans, when they aren't human the whole time. Then you say "How do you know" to everything, when you know less because you're so quick to disregard scientific evidence even though it's based in fact. I'm not saying you shouldn't have your own beliefs, but to make laws based on that is wrong, and it's pushing your beliefs on everybody else. You're just as bad as the people who started the "Jesus Died For You" thread. Probably worse, because they never called anybody murderers, they never compared anybody to mass murdering dictators, and they never wished death on people.

You all still have nothing. You haven't brought up one single fact to support anything you've said. And when someone brings in factual evidence to support the opposite side, you're quick to dismiss it and say "Come on, bring something better than THAT". How about you come up with something better than NOTHING. You can't, and that's why you've been so quick to resort to petty insults. You have no proof, no evidence. Just some pseudo-religious bullshit.

[Arioch]

for the first time i stand 100% behind EVERY WORD of what sam just posted.

Beatifully crafted sam, good form.What people dont seem to get is that they ARE pushing their beliefs on others, and not only that, on everyone essentially since they want to make it LAW. I mean come on, if its evil and we're all going to hell then let us, there is no wrong and right if your denied the ablity to make your choice.

[Sam The Egg]

hey, cool, that's twice now you've given me props for something I said.

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
hey, cool, that's twice now you've given me props for something I said.

seriously, that was really good. lol

I think that will end this debate.

[Nate]

Originally posted by Angelakillsluts
Nate said he isn't religious and he thinks science is bullshit. I find that even funnier. I can't believe some people...



I never said science was bullshit.Why people are putting words in my mouth i havent a clue.I said science is rewritten all the time which is a fact.Im not downing science but science doesnt have all the answers.

[Arioch]

nothing will ever end THIS debate.....

[Angelakillsluts]

Originally posted by Arioch
nothing will ever end THIS debate.....

lol I see. ok I'll change it to nothing new will come in to this debate.

[Sam The Egg]

nothing new had come to the debate for a while

[Nate]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
I'm still waiting for them to use fact. Yes, science is re-written, and the second they come up with facts that say they're humans the whole time, or that they have souls, fine. But as of right now, the things that classify something as a mammal include both lungs and a spinal chord. They don't have those until 8 weeks in. That is fact. You don't have facts. None of you. You whine about them being living humans, when they aren't human the whole time. Then you say "How do you know" to everything, when you know less because you're so quick to disregard scientific evidence even though it's based in fact. I'm not saying you shouldn't have your own beliefs, but to make laws based on that is wrong, and it's pushing your beliefs on everybody else. You're just as bad as the people who started the "Jesus Died For You" thread. Probably worse, because they never called anybody murderers, they never compared anybody to mass murdering dictators, and they never wished death on people.

You all still have nothing. You haven't brought up one single fact to support anything you've said. And when someone brings in factual evidence to support the opposite side, you're quick to dismiss it and say "Come on, bring something better than THAT". How about you come up with something better than NOTHING. You can't, and that's why you've been so quick to resort to petty insults. You have no proof, no evidence. Just some pseudo-religious bullshit.

Petty insults?wtf are you talking about i didnt insult anyone.If something that is growing inside of a womans womb is not life enough for you so be it.its not a matter of fact or fiction but nothing you have stated was a fact either ive pasted this this next part from several scientists who were asked about this very issue and heres what they cant prove:
Science can tell us, with increasing detail, the processes that start with a sperm and ovum and end up with a newborn baby. But it cannot tell us:

Does the fetus have a soul?
When do the products of conception become a person?
Does a zygote have a full set of human rights?
Is an ovum and sperm a person?
Is abortion murder?

So i just showed you sam that not even the scientists can be sure of this so if there are uncertainties in anything then it all comes down to opinion and thats all we can go by.I respect your opinion but i have mine to.Im not even saying mine is right but like i said before what made it clear for me was seeing it done and i didnt like the feeling after,and i dont know anyone who has.

[Sam The Egg]

Does the fetus have a soul? You missed the point entirely. DO NOT BRING RELIGION INTO THIS! NO religion. Soul = Religion. How many times to I have to say it? You think there's a soul, fine. I don't care. Your religion doesn't matter just as mine doesn't matter. Religion is personal and has no place in this.


You have no proof, no evidence. Just some pseudo-religious bullshit.

It's still true.

[Nate]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Does the fetus have a soul? You missed the point entirely. DO NOT BRING RELIGION INTO THIS! NO religion. Soul = Religion. How many times to I have to say it? You think there's a soul, fine. I don't care. Your religion doesn't matter just as mine doesn't matter. Religion is personal and has no place in this.




It's still true.

For the last time im not religious ive been to church like 1 time in my life.What i showed you were admitted from scientists that they cant prove.This was not said by religious people it was said by scientists.You want proof i dont have any but neither do you.We could go on about this forever but its something we could never prove eachother wrong on ,so its pointless to go on anymore.

[Sam The Egg]

All I'm doing is looking at what has been factually proven (What classifies a living being as a mammal, stages of development of the fetus), and basing my opinion off of that. There is fact backing me, and I've brought it up. You haven't. If you can't, don't bother. If you can, do it.
You brought up a soul, that is religious. Say you aren't religious all you want, I don't care. You brought something religious into it.

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by VampRocker
So you're saying it's "easier" to kill unwanted children?

Hey, Vodstok, can I kill you? I don't like you, nor will I ever want you, so, based on your theory, I'm allowed to take your life, right? Oh, wait, does that only apply to children? Yeah, I suppose so, since they're so young and inncont...

It's easier!

Way to go, jackass, proving to everyone that you find it much more simpler to murder a human being then to let it live and have a chance at living. Why do you think that YOU have that right, anyways?

Go away.

interesting. You missed my point. Who out there is volunteering to take care of these kids. It is unfair to kill them? OKay, i havent heard you say ONCE what you would do for them, not once. You want them to live, hoo-fucking-ra for you. just like those other people who tell these women they have to have their kids "they should just raise them". Have you ever seen a kid who wasnt wanted by their parents? Have you seen what kind of life they lead, and what kind of adults many of them turn out to be?

I hope you are one of the first trampled in a food riot, or starve when we are overpopulated in the next couple of decades. We'll see how cruel it is then.

I state again, support the unwanted ones yourself, or SHUT THE FUCK UP. Again, they are irresponsible? Then you prove how responsible you are, genius and take care of them.

[Nate]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
All I'm doing is looking at what has been factually proven (What classifies a living being as a mammal, stages of development of the fetus), and basing my opinion off of that. There is fact backing me, and I've brought it up. You haven't. If you can't, don't bother. If you can, do it.
You brought up a soul, that is religious. Say you aren't religious all you want, I don't care. You brought something religious into it.

I just showed you proof that they cant proove anything what more do you want?If there is fact backing you then it wouldnt be an opinion now would it?I dont even think you know what to believe your mixing fact and opinion and those 2 dont go together.I showed you that nothing can be proved now you show me where any group of scientists will tell me exactly when a fetus should be considered a life ,then ill state what you are saying as a fact, but the problem is you will never find anything like that because it doesnt exsist.You will never hear a scientists tell you the exact day a life starts because they dont even know.

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by VampRocker
Well, if you were raised to think murder was alright, don't you think you'd be mad at the government for outlawing it? You'd be pissed.

If you think abortion is murder, you'd be horrified to think that the government would allow a go-ahead on it.

If abortion is legal, I only find it fair that manslaughter (towards humans out of the womb) be legal, too.

I just wanna play fair.

Wonderful, why dont you go break eric rudolph out of jail. Apparently, life isnt important once it is born, just when it is gestating. I swear, i have never seen as much disregad for people who have already been BORN than i have in pro-lifers.... Who the fuck are you to choose who lives and who dies once they have been born? are you no longer innocent?

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Nate
I just showed you proof that they cant proove anything what more do you want?If there is fact backing you then it wouldnt be an opinion now would it?I dont even think you know what to believe your mixing fact and opinion and those 2 dont go together.I showed you that nothing can be proved now you show me where any group of scientists will tell me exactly when a fetus should be considered a life ,then ill state what you are saying as a fact, but the problem is you will never find anything like that because it doesnt exsist.You will never hear a scientists tell you the exact day a life starts because they dont even know.

You've shown me 'proof' that nothing can be prooven. I want the facts that you're basing your opinion on that abortion should be illegal. I said before, my opinion is based on the following:
Fact: Two of the things that classify a life form as a mammal are a spinal chord and the ability to breath with lungs.
Fact: Humans are mammals
Fact: The backbone is in place in 6 weeks, the lungs in 8 weeks. That's 2 months.
All of that is undisputed fact. There is nothing saying that they have a soul, and the soul is a religious concept. Thus, you cannot bring souls into it. So don't. I don't care whether you're religious our not, do not bring up souls.
No. Ovums and sperm aren't people. They could potentially BECOME people. They aren't people.

I say again, if you have no fact, do not bother to reply.

[GorePhobia]

i think if its been less then 2 months then abortion is okay...because it isnt living fully yet....so that my opinon

[Nate]

3 weeks from conception when the embryo is about 2 mm long and has started to develop visible external body parts

4 weeks when its heart starts to beat.

4 weeks and you have a heartbeat hmm if thats not a life i dunno what is. 6 weeks from conception, when brain waves can be first sensed

This is all within a 6 week period and i dunno about you but brain waves and a heartbeat is life enough for me

[Sam The Egg]

Are you even listening? Are you reading the posts? I'm trying not to just completely rip into you, but you're making that really difficult. I'm not arguing whether or not it's alive. I'm not. It's alive or it's not, whatever. I'm arguing whether or not it's human.

Also, you didn't post a link to where you found all your proof from.

[Nate]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Are you even listening? Are you reading the posts? I'm trying not to just completely rip into you, but you're making that really difficult. I'm not arguing whether or not it's alive. I'm not. It's alive or it's not, whatever. I'm arguing whether or not it's human.

Also, you didn't post a link to where you found all your proof from.

ok so you feel like something has to be defined as a human to decide whether or not it is right to abort it or not.I will only answer like this.
1.Are the limbs that show after 3 weeks human?? yes
2.Is the heart that beats after 4 weeks human?? yes
3.is the brain that starts to form after 6 weeks human??yes

And this is all in the first trimenster when its still legal to abort.not only that theres DNA to prove its human shortley after conception.I see what your getting at and you have your beliefs and i respect that but this really is getting us knowwhere.

[Rotting Eye]

All I can say is, if you're battling with Sam and I, you're wrong.

I suggest no one post again until someone has facts, or can at least attempt to argue their point with civility and without religion. He's mentioned numerous times that all we want to see factual evidence.

He's brought some up to the table, why can't anyone else? Or is it because no one else can find anything to support their side of the argument? People have been relying too heavily on name-calling, religion, and ignorance to express their point. I'm beginning to feel embarrassed for them.

[GorePhobia]

hey Im with you and sam....soo i can post right?

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by Nate
ok so you feel like something has to be defined as a human to decide whether or not it is right to abort it or not.I will only answer like this.
1.Are the limbs that show after 3 weeks human?? yes
2.Is the heart that beats after 4 weeks human?? yes
3.is the brain that starts to form after 6 weeks human??yes

And this is all in the first trimenster when its still legal to abort.not only that theres DNA to prove its human shortley after conception.I see what your getting at and you have your beliefs and i respect that but this really is getting us knowwhere.

The fetus gets it's own DNA one second after conception. I know, I posted a link to a site that lists all the stages of birth. Thing is, I have no sympathy for DNA. A lot of things have limbs and a heart and a brain.

Points for trying to bring facts, but there's no support.