Chrono's Horror Marathon Week 1: Frankenstein's Monster

[metternich1815]

Originally Posted by neverending

So, you'd want them to chop off the top and bottom of the picture to make the film conform to modern screen size?

I'd rather see the whole picture.

Can't they show the whole picture and make it fit modern screens. If not, then, yes, I agree I would prefer to see the whole picture. I would just deal with the bars on the side.

[Damn Heathen]

I was able to watch only the first half today. It is more humorous than remembered. Love the Franken-slap.

[ChronoGrl]

metternich1815 - That's a fascinating analysis. I actually feel really ignorant for my comment because, honestly, it's the perfect ending-

If we're thinking about rejected for being considered a "Monster" and you're presented with something (someone) who is very much LIKE you but hasn't been tainted through society - That person is horrified of you - It's a perfect but very sad ending. The rejection absolutely had to happen.

I love the reading that he is being rejected by Heterosexual Love as well...

It sounds really simple to say "Well, it's called The Bride of Frankenstein," but that wasn't necessarily the crux of my disappointment - We get so much character development from him in this movie that I was just hoping to deconstruct her further -

But like most other characters in the film, she is mostly there to reject him (I understand it; as a female horror fan, I would have liked to see more of her as the second abomination)...


A few other notes that I took...

I loved the "meta" beginning with Shelley, Byron, and Shelley - That was absolutely unexpected and setting it up as a tale within a tale added another element of grotesque fantasy to it - I was also very interested in the portrayal of Mary, who was both grotesque but also, ultimately weak (needing to be held up, much like the Bride).
I loved that this movie had comedy in it
And I loved the religious imagery; when they literally tie The Monster to a cross... That was truly disturbing.
Also - The concept of this other Mad Doctor 'growing' people - I wanted to explore that a bit more, especially the microcosm of Beauty (the Queen), Lust (the King), Guilt/Abstinence/Fascism (The Archbishop), and The Devil - It was interesting that he put aside the miracle of GROWING life for the twisted science of "reanimating" life
The conversation of what is "Good" and what is "Bad" is an interesting commentary on the false dichotomy of Dualism (just as the Doctors are trying to create the Yin to his Yang, it's impossible; there isn't just black and white or right and wrong)
Definitely very very layered; I think I'd need to watch it again before analyzing it further.

Just the rant at the top of my head - I needed to compose my thoughts and say farewell to my friend before returning.

Also - This was definitely an interesting experience; keeping the video feed on, even though you and HF couldn't really participate, but could obviously hear (and see?) us - Made me think about people who post movie reactions to YouTube; was that what the experience was like for you? Watching us react to the movie?

I was hoping for more interactive dialogue and am totally bummed that technology thwarted us BUT I like that we were able to interact, even if it's delayed.

Also - I really wish your microphone worked so that you could school us on Hammer Films! I think I made a comment of, "If they can hear me, they're probably yelling at the screen..."

[Damn Heathen]

So far, I've found the main themes (the pathologization and rejection of the abnormal) and symbolism (of religion) rather generic (though, the portentous owl bit is hilarious). From memory, it is not until the end that a new more important theme emerges.

[ChronoGrl]

Originally Posted by Damn Heathen

So far, I've found the main themes (the pathologization and rejection of the abnormal) and symbolism (of religion) rather generic (though, the portentous owl bit is hilarious). From memory, it is not until the end that a new more important theme emerges.

Ooo. Looking forward to the rest of your analysis!

[metternich1815]

Originally Posted by ChronoGrl

metternich1815 - That's a fascinating analysis. I actually feel really ignorant for my comment because, honestly, it's the perfect ending-

If we're thinking about rejected for being considered a "Monster" and you're presented with something (someone) who is very much LIKE you but hasn't been tainted through society - That person is horrified of you - It's a perfect but very sad ending. The rejection absolutely had to happen.

I love the reading that he is being rejected by Heterosexual Love as well...

It sounds really simple to say "Well, it's called The Bride of Frankenstein," but that wasn't necessarily the crux of my disappointment - We get so much character development from him in this movie that I was just hoping to deconstruct her further -

But like most other characters in the film, she is mostly there to reject him (I understand it; as a female horror fan, I would have liked to see more of her as the second abomination)...


A few other notes that I took...

I loved the "meta" beginning with Shelley, Byron, and Shelley - That was absolutely unexpected and setting it up as a tale within a tale added another element of grotesque fantasy to it - I was also very interested in the portrayal of Mary, who was both grotesque but also, ultimately weak (needing to be held up, much like the Bride).
I loved that this movie had comedy in it
And I loved the religious imagery; when they literally tie The Monster to a cross... That was truly disturbing.
Also - The concept of this other Mad Doctor 'growing' people - I wanted to explore that a bit more, especially the microcosm of Beauty (the Queen), Lust (the King), Guilt/Abstinence/Fascism (The Archbishop), and The Devil - It was interesting that he put aside the miracle of GROWING life for the twisted science of "reanimating" life
The conversation of what is "Good" and what is "Bad" is an interesting commentary on the false dichotomy of Dualism (just as the Doctors are trying to create the Yin to his Yang, it's impossible; there isn't just black and white or right and wrong)
Definitely very very layered; I think I'd need to watch it again before analyzing it further.

Just the rant at the top of my head - I needed to compose my thoughts and say farewell to my friend before returning.

Also - This was definitely an interesting experience; keeping the video feed on, even though you and HF couldn't really participate, but could obviously hear (and see?) us - Made me think about people who post movie reactions to YouTube; was that what the experience was like for you? Watching us react to the movie?

I was hoping for more interactive dialogue and am totally bummed that technology thwarted us BUT I like that we were able to interact, even if it's delayed.

Also - I really wish your microphone worked so that you could school us on Hammer Films! I think I made a comment of, "If they can hear me, they're probably yelling at the screen..."

Yes, it really is a brilliant ending which parallels the idea of rejection. Also, the scene has a certain classical feeling to it. It reminds me of the classical tragedies of Greece where the heroes sacrifice themselves in the name of love. In this case, the "monster" believes it better that both of their lives end, so that the "bride" should not have to endure the rejection he has experienced. An interesting reaction considering that he, himself, was rejected by her. If you think about it the film, more generally possess a tragic element. The monster only wishes to be treated normally, but is hated and denounced and there are a number of negative things that occur that only feed into the villager's mistaken idea like when the blind man's house was burned down.

Yes, I have always enjoyed that beginning, though it is interesting that they do not return to it, it sort of reminds of a play by Shakespeare known as the Taming of the Shrew. In that play, there is something known as the Induction where the character of Christopher Sly is convinced he is a lord when he is really a peasant. He then adopts the role, while everyone around carries that idea on and treat him as such (a prank devised by an actual lord). Sly then is convinced to attend a play, which is called the Taming of the Shrew (sort of a play within a play). Sadly though, the play does not really return to that particular subplot. In the same way, Bride of Frankenstein introduces that as a way to introduce the film, but does not really explore that more fully. Granted, to add that at the end would sort of destroy the brilliance of the ending, so perhaps that is for the better. I just feel like more could have been done on that front, maybe I am way off on that.

Yes, the religious themes were of particular note and it is interesting to see that particular allusion. In fact, I suppose the ending could also be seen as a religious allusion. The "monster" is sort of a Christ-like figure. He has been hated and abused and at the end decides to sacrifice himself for what he considers the greater good. Also, the idea of creating a monster and a female for him is definitely a parallel to the Christian story of Adam and Eve. The film is clearly exploring the idea of man playing God and in both cases it does not work out as well as was planned (though I am sure there is some disagreement on this from a Christian theological standpoint). I am sure there are many other religious explorations, but those are some off the top of my head.

That is an interesting analysis of that particular scene. I had always not known what to make of that particular scene. There is a definite surreal aspect to the scene. It is interesting that the archbishop has a particular role, but yet fails to truly fulfill it. In much the same way, the Catholic Church had supported the regime of Adolf Hitler in the same period. I doubt that that is what Whale intended as he does not possess the knowledge that we do, but that is what it reminded me of. There is definitely alot more to that scene. I definitely need to watch it again and pay very close attention to it, so I can get a better understanding of it. As is common in films of this nature, there was definitely alot of exploration of the idea of the old order. In this case, we see the secular and religious structures as manifested by the king, queen, and archbishop. We also see the religious objects previously discussed. One scene that I was thinking about in particular was the one where the "monster" topples the statue of the archbishop or whatever it was. I wonder if that symbolized the idea of the end of the old order. The Dr. (can't think of his name) also referenced the idea of them being burned at the stake as wizards. Another reference to the old order. I cannot help to think that this is an intentional reference by Whale.

Yes, I agree. That is definitely an important theme of this film. The villagers often see things such as the "monster" as black and white. When, in reality, things are far more complicated than that.

Another thing I would like to bring up briefly is the idea of the blind man. I think that is a particularly intriguing scene. As discussed previously, what the monster wants more than anything is to be be accepted. In the case of the blind man, he cannot judge the "monster" on outward appearances. As such, they develop a good, if brief, friendship. During that period, the "monster" clearly develops his cognitive abilities. This will be further enhanced when he is employed as an equal by that doctor. I just found that whole idea fascinating. It is interesting to see how this film is still so relevant to this day, even if not in the same way as was originally intended. There is definitely a great deal of complexity and nuance. In my opinion, this film was significantly better in terms of character development as compared to the original 1931 film. This is not to take away from that film, it is just to comment on the richness of this film. Of course, this is primarily true of the "monster". Though there are certainly other characters that were not fully developed. I would have liked to have seen more development of Henry Frankenstein in particular and, of course, we already noted the female "monster."

Yes, that was what it was like. It was a little strange, but then again I am not all that familiar with telepresence and related technologies. I really wish the site would have had the chat feature as it states it does. I would love to have chatted in that way while the film was ongoing. Still, I think we have had a good conversation here though. Yes, I am sure between me and hammerfan, we could have really been useful in that regard. The Hammer films are quite good, by the way. I have seen quite a number. I really want to reiterate Curse of Frankenstein. Like Bride, that film is very complex and nuanced. That is what I love about it. The only time I was yelling at the screen was when you could not think of Cushing's name...lol.

Originally Posted by Damn Heathen

So far, I've found the main themes (the pathologization and rejection of the abnormal) and symbolism (of religion) rather generic (though, the portentous owl bit is hilarious). From memory, it is not until the end that a new more important theme emerges.

I am not sure exactly what you mean by generic, so I cannot really comment on your statement. Personally, I thought those themes were very well explored in a very novel way. I am curious, what theme in particular?

[Damn Heathen]

Originally Posted by metternich1815

I am not sure exactly what you mean by generic, so I cannot really comment on your statement. Personally, I thought those themes were very well explored in a very novel way. I am curious, what theme in particular?

These themes and symbols are and were overdone, even back then (not that being generic is necessarily bad). The new theme, again from memory, involves the battle within the realm of science and the frequent partial reliance (in method or theory) of new science on old/rejected science.

[metternich1815]

Originally Posted by Damn Heathen

These themes and symbols are and were overdone, even back then (not that being generic is necessarily bad). The new theme, again from memory, involves the battle within the realm of science and the frequent partial reliance (in method or theory) of new science on old/rejected science.

Yes, they are common themes, but it is all in how they are explored that matters. In my opinion, the film explored them in a very novel way that really adds to the body that already exists. I definitely agree that this film deserves its iconic status. There is so much in this film and several ways it can be interpreted. Yes, I agree that was an important theme of the film. It was a very excellent one an that. That goes into what I mentioned about the old versus new order.

[neverending]

Originally Posted by Damn Heathen

So far, I've found the main themes (the pathologization and rejection of the abnormal) and symbolism (of religion) rather generic (though, the portentous owl bit is hilarious). From memory, it is not until the end that a new more important theme emerges.

Bollox. Save us from hipster cynicism.

Originally Posted by metternich1815

Can't they show the whole picture and make it fit modern screens. If not, then, yes, I agree I would prefer to see the whole picture. I would just deal with the bars on the side.

A film is not made of silly putty, you know. You can't stretch it or compress it at will. Any time you see a movie filmed in the old aspect ratio of 1.33:1 on a wide screen and there are no stripes along the sides, then the image has been cropped on the top and bottom.
Any time you see a wide screen movie shown on an old set and it doesn't have dark bands at the top and bottom, it's been cropped on the sides.

That's the only way to do it. There's no magic way to refilm old movies.

[Damn Heathen]

Originally Posted by neverending

Bollox. Save us from hipster cynicism.

There's nothing cynical about it. It's a fact of science.

Originally Posted by metternich1815

Yes, they are common themes, but it is all in how they are explored that matters. In my opinion, the film explored them in a very novel way that really adds to the body that already exists. I definitely agree that this film deserves its iconic status. There is so much in this film and several ways it can be interpreted. Yes, I agree that was an important theme of the film. It was a very excellent one an that. That goes into what I mentioned about the old versus new order.

Sorry, I haven't fully read the earlier posts, but I'll browse them after I finish the movie.