what do u think god or satan looks like

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by bwind22
The Bible dates human history. It is common knowledge that our planet has been around for millions of years. I don't think anyone that reads/believes in the Bible would try to tell you that the dinosaurs were here 5000 years ago.

You would be surprised.....

The bible, in my opinion, is partially a historical text, and partially an attempt at moral guidance. the #1 problem i have with it is that it was written by people. thatfact alone makes it unreliable. No one is 100% objective in their representation of anything. Imagine if the bible was written by an ancient Michael Moore? He would be lying, per se, but he certainly wouldnt be giving you the whole story.

And then on top of that, you have new testament and old testament. How can you rewrite the story of everything?

[orangestar]

Originally posted by Vodstok
You would be surprised.....

The bible, in my opinion, is partially a historical text, and partially an attempt at moral guidance. the #1 problem i have with it is that it was written by people. thatfact alone makes it unreliable. No one is 100% objective in their representation of anything. Imagine if the bible was written by an ancient Michael Moore? He would be lying, per se, but he certainly wouldnt be giving you the whole story.

And then on top of that, you have new testament and old testament. How can you rewrite the story of everything?

EXACTLY!!

[Egekrusher]

Originally posted by bwind22
Good points. It seems to me like you may be the only one seeing what I'm saying here. I'm not trying to force anyone into any religious beliefs, and to be completely honest I have never seen any actual scientific proof that God exists either.

To me, God is a being far beyond our scope of comprehension. He is not bound by any of the rules we know and that alone, makes it a very hard thing to comprehend. I've studied several of the world's religions (a hobby I took up in college) and arrived at the conclusion that there is one similarity in almost every one of them. There is a higher power. That's it. There's something greater than us that is responsible for us (or at least created the universe as we know it). It doesn't really matter what human label you put on it.

I don't mean to bash you, that's not the point of this.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason that a higher power exists in all cultures is the need for a belief system to constrain and force you into having a set of morals, and also because of peoples need for something more than they can see or feel. They know that there has to be something more, and they define it as a Godhead, a powerful figure, a being that has absolute control. Back when religions were first created, human comprehension and knowledge couldn't even BEGIN to approach the level that it's at right now. They basically saw this "something more" as a father (or mother, in some cultures) figure that was watching constantly and would punish them for any "bad" deeds that they did. Most of the reason religions like that came into existence was because in ancient tribes, the "shaman" needed a way to control his tribe, so he did it through fear. They played on peoples fears and fantasies. Granted, this was only at the beginning of religion. As time went on and people evolved, their belief systems did as well, and along came the peaceful religions such as Buddhism. While peaceful now, they are still a derivative of what was merely a control mechanism.

I have also studied religion for a long time, as you may be able to tell. I don't see a higher power being out there. It just doesn't make any sense. What does make sense is religion based on fear and power.

[orangestar]

Originally posted by Egekrusher
I don't mean to bash you, that's not the point of this.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason that a higher power exists in all cultures is the need for a belief system to constrain and force you into having a set of morals, and also because of peoples need for something more than they can see or feel. They know that there has to be something more, and they define it as a Godhead, a powerful figure, a being that has absolute control. Back when religions were first created, human comprehension and knowledge couldn't even BEGIN to approach the level that it's at right now. They basically saw this "something more" as a father (or mother, in some cultures) figure that was watching constantly and would punish them for any "bad" deeds that they did. Most of the reason religions like that came into existence was because in ancient tribes, the "shaman" needed a way to control his tribe, so he did it through fear. They played on peoples fears and fantasies. Granted, this was only at the beginning of religion. As time went on and people evolved, their belief systems did as well, and along came the peaceful religions such as Buddhism. While peaceful now, they are still a derivative of what was merely a control mechanism.

I have also studied religion for a long time, as you may be able to tell. I don't see a higher power being out there. It just doesn't make any sense. What does make sense is religion based on fear and power.

Right, which Is why I dont understand why such a high percentage of the world is that religious. To fight wars and lose your life over something like that.... I dont know. Just seems pointless. I guess religion is a huge part of a lot of peoples lives.

[bwind22]

Originally posted by Vodstok
You would be surprised.....

The bible, in my opinion, is partially a historical text, and partially an attempt at moral guidance. the #1 problem i have with it is that it was written by people. thatfact alone makes it unreliable. No one is 100% objective in their representation of anything. Imagine if the bible was written by an ancient Michael Moore? He would be lying, per se, but he certainly wouldnt be giving you the whole story.

And then on top of that, you have new testament and old testament. How can you rewrite the story of everything?

You haven't read it then. The New Testament and Old Testament are different. It is not like a 'remake'.

The Old Testament is mostly a list of names. (Zacariah, brother of Judiah, son of Maximillion, etc...) And the New Testament deals with the life and times of Jesus Christ.

It was written by human beings, and you are right to say that makes it fallible. (I like your Michael Moore reference, that was funny.) But the majority of the humans who wrote it, actually knew Jesus quite well, so there should be some truth in there.

It is a good historical reference as well as a good set of moral guidelines.

[orangestar]

Right Bwind, it is a great set of moral guidelines. But thats not how people take it. The Michael Moore reference makes a lot of sense really, maybe its all true, but embellished.

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by orangestar
One of the first things I noticed on my path to Atheism is how the Greeks, Romans, Christians, Buddhists, etc. All believe(d) in such different things. Who is so arrogant to say that their religion is "the right one". Who the fuck knows which is right? I just took the easy path and said none of them are right, at least not for me.

I'll couple this with bwind's comment about the preists. Here is my #1 problem with the Catholic Church (sorry if you are Catholic, feel free to hate me):
Catholacism was started in the Holy Roman Empire, by Constantine.

Constantine was not Christian to begin with. he didnt believe in it one bit.

But, His mother was. And one day, she told him that he would die if he did not convert. So he did. And he spent an ridiculous amount of money building churches and ornate edifaces to jesus and god. and he made everyone under him convert.

So Catholacism came to be because a heretic was afraid that he would die if he didnt start praying to god.

[Vodstok]

A quick interjection roght here. All three of you impress me (bwind, orangestar, ege). not one of youhas resorted to name calling or saying thisgs like "Well, you are just stupid, shut up".

:) a round of applause for all involved :)

That Genesis and Revelations thing sounds a lot like embellishment, but that is just me.

[newb]

Originally posted by Vodstok
A quick interjection roght here. All three of you impress me (bwind, orangestar, ege). not one of youhas resorted to name calling or saying thisgs like "Well, you are just stupid, shut up".

:) a round of applause for all involved :)

That Genesis and Revelations thing sounds a lot like embellishment, but that is just me.

WHAT?!?....my Gandalf referance didn't mean anything. Well, you are just stupid,shut up.

[Egekrusher]

Originally posted by Vodstok
A quick interjection roght here. All three of you impress me (bwind, orangestar, ege). not one of youhas resorted to name calling or saying thisgs like "Well, you are just stupid, shut up".

:) a round of applause for all involved :)

That Genesis and Revelations thing sounds a lot like embellishment, but that is just me.

I rather enjoy a good, logical argument. I rarely get them. As you said, most people just say "I'm better than you, my beliefs are better, and YOU'RE STUPID!!!".

I've leave that to the cavemen, thanks.