[swiss tony]

Saw and Hostel are the two that spring to mind first. The Passion is also main stream, based on popular approval, but is it possible for a movie to achieve universal approval if it's themes are purely needless sadism?

Saw isn't that gratuitous and is genuinely a movie of real substance and innovation. The funny thing about The Passion is that it's success is driven purely by religious obligation. The screening I attended was amazing, in that the majority of the folk were clearly church-goers and there out of religious masochism/obedience.

Hostel is a moderately successful gory movie but rides on the coat tales of the Saw bandwagon. I think it's clear that extreme cinema in the form of gornography hasn't really triumphed in the English speaking world. I know Salo is highly respected as 'arthouse' cinema and that August Underground series is highly thought for what it achieves in make-up without a budget or CGI but these are only industry accolades.

Has extreme cinema topped the box office overseas? Irreversible in France or Ichi in Japan? Can you see a desensitising of the public in favour of hardcore violence? Don't you think that Holywood now includes increasingly graphic violence to what would've previously been a little sugar coated ie True Grit v True Grit!

I predict that 20 years from now we'll be watching ultra violence injected mainstream cinema not a million miles from the average entry on our most disturbing list