[bwind22]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
Wow...I have MUCH to answer to :)

And yet...Saddam had many of his own Bathe party members (mostly officials) executed....Saddam's only REAL loyalty was to HIMSELF.....Do you remember this incident?:

Saddam's daughter had a husband and children....Her husband was an official in the Bathe Party...Her husband decided that Saddam was dangerous and what he was doing was wrong (this was after he gassed over 6,000 of his own people)...He told his wife that he knew his views would get him killed, that he refused to participate in what was going on any longer, so he left the country...He begged his wife to go with him, but she was afraid of what her father would do to her and her children if she tried to leave (she was terrified of her own father...Of course, this was in a country where a father is responsible for cutting off the head of his daughter if she is believed to be 'impure')....Saddam had his sons track down the daughter's husband...The husband was told, "Father wants you to return...Our sister and your children need you...He (Saddam) has forgiven you, he would not harm you, you are family and he knows that his daughter and grandchildren need you"...There was LOTS of convincing and he (the husband) ended up falling for it....As soon as he returned to Iraq, he was beheaded by Saddam's oldest son, in front of his wife and children.....Saddam simply said, "No one betrays me"

Yes I remember this incident although I don't really see how it pertains to anything. What are you getting at? That Saddam is a cold motherfucker? We already know that.

It is difficult for us (most of us) to grasp the concept of such brutality and disloyalty.....In a country where you have no loyalty to anyone but yourself, the friend or foe lines are not so clearly drawn...They are VERY blurry, and subject to change on a whim....And so, Although the Bathe Party and Al-Qeida DID truly hate each other, 2 enemies WILL join forces against a common enemy, that is a universal fact (See Army Of Darkness...lol)...And America, particularly our way of life, is hated by almost all of the Middle East...They are raised from birth to believe that we are evil and immoral...

This is really just your own speculation. There has never been anything proving these two are working together.

AND...During Clinton's administration, it was established that Bin Laden was NOT our ally...As we had gathered information that he was responsible for attacks against us BEFORE 9-11...Saudi Arabia had him in custody, they offered him to Clinton 3 times...He was apparently too busy to be bothered with such trivial matters as stopping terrorists...He didn't really see him as a threat...

I'm pretty sure it was Sudan (Fearing a US attack) that offered him to us, but you're right about Slick Willy being the one to drop the ball on that.

There have been MANY times that we have tried to help people, provide them weapons and training, and have them turn on us and use it against us....That is not a new occurance, and I am pretty sure that it will continue to happen....We are generally a trusting people, that may be one of our biggest weaknesses (See Mars Attacks :D)

Yep. Our government is stupid.

People and situations change...Allies become enemies, and vise-versa...

Deja vu. Didn't you basically already say that in the 2nd paragraph?

Have you NO idea how arrogant we are as a country?...We broadcast our intentions all over the world before we do ANYTHING (VERY bad move...But, if we didn't do it, people would scream that they were being 'kept in the dark')....OUR media is one of the enemy's greatest weapons....We feel that we can overcome that breech, we expect them to just wait for us to implement our plans before they do anything...BUT, it's really no different than UN inspectors setting up APPOINTMENTS with them to inspect their weapons cache...Always guaranteeing them the opportunity to 'clean up' before inspectors arrive...Ridiculous

The American media is retarded. No arguement here on that one. Anyone needing proof can just look up the Fox news archives of Geraldo Rivera drawing a fucking map in the sand of where the military plattoon he was traveling with was stationed during the opening days of the Iraq war. What a fuckin' dumbass...

Al-Qeida has always been spread out in the Middle East...Although they are actually a relatively small faction (or they WERE until people starting joining them enmasse to 'bring down America')...Yet, they made certain that they remained visible as much as possible in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and even parts of Pakistan...This is a way for a small faction to appear larger than they actually are, as is claiming responsibilty (taking credit) for just about ANY terrorist attack (and even disasters that end up being proven to be accidents) perpetuated anywhere in the world, especially America.....And yes, they did descend upon Iraq in droves as soon as our troops arrived

Actually, bin Laden's war was against Saudi Arabia for a long, long time. (Because they allowed western influence in a Muslim country.) Until recently, al-Qaida operated primarily out of Afghanistan and the border regions of Pakistan, and before that Sudan. I have never seen, heard, or been shown anything saying that al-Qaida was ni Iraq or Iran before we went to Iraq.

I'm just going to disagree with that...I can DO that, as an American :)

Yeah you can do that, but I don't see any reason that you would know better than the 9/11 Commission.

Ever wonder where he GOT all of that money?...It couldn't have all come from his rich family...He had BILLIONS of dollars...Much more than his family's combined net worth...Sadly, some of his money came from US.....But, Saddam was willing to fund ANY faction that was hellbent on the destruction of America...Believe it or not, Saddam doesn't like us very much...heh

In addition to his familial wealth, he owned several major legit corporations during his time in Sudan. It was a very poor country and he actually did a TON for their infrastructure. That's where most of his money came from.

And Saddam had ridiculous amounts of money that he diverted from the Oil For Food program that was SUPPOSED to go to his people...The UN was responsible for overseeing that program, and making sure that the funds were distributed as intended, just as they were supposed to handle the weapons inspections...And people wonder why we do NOT have much faith in working with the UN...They have proven to be dangerously ineffective, on far too many occasions

Kofi Annan is the biggest crook of any politicans. The UN is a joke. Oil for Food was a fucking fiasco. But just because Saddam didn't distribute the money like he should have, doesn't mean he gave it to bin Laden. You are jumping to conclusions without backing them up with anything.

And yes...Bin Laden needed money after his assets were frozen...No, I don't believe it was possible to locate ALL of his resources, BUT we even had a stranglehold on all of the assets of his family members as well...It HAD to restrict him quite a bit...

It probably restriced him some, but we didn't get it all. To think we commandeered all of his cash would be to underestimate his intelligence, which would be just plain naive. bin Laden is not a stupid man by any stretch of the imagination. If you had declared a holy war on the US, don't you think he'd have the foresight to stick most of his money out of our reach? The US can't freeze Swiss bank accounts. The US didn't go look in all the safes in Afghanistan. The US may have froze some of his families cash, but what about all the money he has resting with operatives that the US isn't even aware of? The US freezing his cash may have dented his bankroll, but it sure didn't cripple it.

Your turn:)

Okay, back at ya.

History channel is running a biography on bin Laden this month. I just watched it a couple days ago and it's really good, but that's where alot of my info came from.

I basically think we are seeing eye to eye on pretty much everything except the al-Qaida/Iraq connection.