Touchy Subject
 

i am doing a persuasive speech for my Speech class on Abortion. i have the opinions of my family, but i was kind of wondering if you guys (and girls) wouldn't mind telling me what you think. pro life, pro choice, on the fence, somewhere in between.

for my speech i'm hoping to give a different perspective on it. everyone always just does pro or con. i guess i'm just indecisive, but i'm arguing that it may not be too moral, but sometimes it's necessary.

do i even have an arguement?

opinions will be greatly appreciated. THANKS!

http://www.has.vcu.edu/eng/webtext/hills/hills.htm

You could use so many references from Hills Like White Elephants, it's all about abortion. Just take a minute to read it.

thanks, from that excerpt it sounds like a really good book. or at least one that will help me with my speech.

Book? No. That's the entire story.

oh. my bad. serious brain fart right there.

well, it was a really good story. i can totally use that.

Yeah, if you need any help about anything in it just ask. Week after week of reviewing it... gah

I'm pro choice.If a person chooses to have an abortion thats there choice.Let them do what they want. I however would never let my girlfriend or wife have one but that's just how I feel.

I'm pro-choice. If you're against abortion, then don't have one. Pretty simple.

Things like this are realy up to the indivdual at the time, only they know what is right for them....

Then sometimes they don't though...

Yes, and i'm sure that every pro abortionist's unborn child would agree that it's just fine if you want to kill it. It's murder.

I'm sure there are plenty of people in the world that wish they had been aborted, but I've never met one....

So what do you call miscarriages, suicide?

That's actually kind of funny...

I don't think that's exactly the same book as abortion...

Actually, it is if you think about it. If a person is murdered, they have an investigation and a funeral. If a person commits suicide, they at least usually have a funeral. If someone has a miscarriage or an abortion, is there a funeral? Except for some rare cases, no. Why? Because it is not a viable human unless it can survive on it's own outside of the womb. Therefore it's not murder or suicide. Just my opinion.

BTW, for whatever it's worth, I don't think I would personally ever have an abortion, but it's not my place to tell someone else what to do with their body. That's why I say, if you're against abortion, then don't have one.

Say it again sam.

Thppppt! :p

I'm mostly pro-life (there are situations that may call for an abortion). There are so many options now if you can't take care of it. As far as the "if you're against abortion don't have one" argument goes; if you don't want to have a child then don't get pregnant.

Easier said than done. There are cases when one takes all the precautions and gets pregnant anyway. The pill isn't 100% accurate and neither is any other method except not having sex at all. And then there's the cases of rape where the woman doesn't really have any choices.

I don't want to get into a big debate as I've discussed this issue thousands of other times but look at my post again. I said there were certain situations and one of those is rape. As far as being easier said than done, if you can't handle HAVING the baby (I'm not saying raising it now), then DO NOT HAVE SEX. That's "100% accurate".

Guys should do the same thing then. DON'T HAVE SEX. Yah, like THAT'S gonna happen. I don't mean to sound sexist, so please don't take it that way. But it's very easy for guys to say all this stuff, cuz they never have to worry about ever going through the physical experience of pregnancy and childbirth. Granted a worthwhile partner will help the best he can, but it's the woman the has to go through all the physical crap of getting sick and her body getting all stretched out and all the hormnal changes that most guys refer to as "she's being such a bitch". There is no way for a man to really know what it is actually like to go through all that. And then there is childbirth. Imagine trying to pass a football out your butt. And that's only part of it.

Nope, but plenty of woman manage to not get knocked up until they're ready and plenty more deal with an accidental pregnancy by taking responsibility for their actions. It's possible to abstain or use multiple precautions, people do it all the time.

I gues there are heaps of couples ready to adopt kids anyway.....

I added to my post, if you care.

Again, all of this is eay to say when you're not the one getting pregnant. But we've gotten off the subject of pro-choice or pro-life. Go ahead and be pro-life, personally that would be my choice too. But neither you or I have the right to decide for someone else what they should do. That's where the choice part comes in.

How far do you go on the abortion though? Who sticks up for the baby? Like the young mother that stabbed her newly born child and is now using as her defense "I was going to have an abortion anyway". Like I said I don't want to discuss this (again) for ages. To each their own, you know my stance.

If playing football without lots of protection could lead to a football coming out of my ass I'd stay the hell away from football.

That was a healthy child already born. That was clearly a case of murder and not at all the same as an abortion. Was getting stabbed 135 times better for that poor child than being terminated before it even knew it existed? I think not.

Anyway you know my stance and I know yours. I think it's time to agree to disagree.

So, horrorobsessed, has any of this helped for your speech class? ;) :)

I've discussed this here a million times, too...Everyone knows my position on this...But, I just wanted to remind everyone of something...

It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to become pregnant as a result of rape...There are many reasons for this (it's a biological thing), but it's a fact

At any rate...Less than 1% OF 1% of all abortions are performed because of "rape"

I also want to add that the word "rape" is even subjective in these cases...For some girls, it breaks down like this:

If the guy's good looking, it's sex
If the guy's ugly, it's rape

I know that sounds disgusting...But it's true in SO many cases

Chicks who get drunk and have sex with someone they normally wouldn't have, usually end up yelling "rape", too

There are also MANY married women who get 'caught' and claim they were raped...It happens more than you might think

Welcome to the real world...It isn't all so 'cut and dried'


Have the baby...Give it up for adoption...Then you don't have to take care of it...You don't want to go through the process of adoption (which is simply signing a paper in the hospital when the baby's born)?, then leave the baby at a hospital, fire department or other place that takes them within 72 hours of birth (check your city to find out where these locations are), with no questions asked, you don't even have to give them your name...So, what could be the problem with THAT?...Oh, you don't want STRETCH MARKS?...Selfish, SHALLOW bitch, you shouldn't have gotten pregnant

Better for?...No...Exactly the same...With the exact same result

Do you think that as soon as a baby pops out it's any more "aware of its existence" than it was BEFORE it came out?...I think not

I was thinking more, girl gets drunk and passes out while drunk guy has his way with her and she doesn't wake up. Your percentages pretty much coincide with the frequency I think that could actually happen.

I totally disagree. Yes, it is very much aware of it's existance once it's born. How could you look into the face of your newborn child and NOT realize that?

And as for your comment of "Oh, you don't want STRETCH MARKS?...Selfish, SHALLOW bitch, you shouldn't have gotten pregnant" again I say there are cases, MANY MANY cases when all precautions are taken and the woman still gets pregnant. I have always respected your opinion Rayne, but I can't believe how ignorant you are being this time.

You won't find "MANY MANY" cases of accidental pregnancy with couples where both the man and woman use the proper precautions. Hell, if you don't want a kid use the pill, condoms, a diaphragm, spermicide, and the morning after pill.

Oh for God's sake, wake up. Yes there are MANY MANY cases where the couple takes the proper precautions and the woman still gets pregnant. And there are also MANY MANY cases where, maybe they aren't that strong of a couple and they still take the precautions, woman gets pregnant, guy takes off thinking "not MY problem" and the woman is stuck wondering what to do. That same guy can go and spout off about how pro-life he is and doesn't even give a crap about the girl he got pregnant. And no, it's not always easy to track those morons down. But he is still just as responsible for that pregnancy as she is, he just doesn't have to deal with it.

That's your right

Okay, I should have worded that one differently..."Do you think it's any LESS 'aware of its existence' BEFORE it pops out?"...It's moving, playing with its toes, crying, laughing, being hungry, sleeping, hiccupping, holding its hands and playing with its fingers...

Okay, but that's not the baby's fault...It shouldn't be executed for it...Someone has an 'accident'...Give it up for adoption, or drop it off at a safe place...Is THAT difficult?

And it's my opinion that if someone's ONLY reason for having an abortion is to avoid stretch marks, that person IS a 'selfish, SHALLOW bitch'...That's the way I feel, and I stand by it


Ignorance is a lack of knowledge about a subject...I happen to have a HELL of a lot of knowledge pertaining to this subject...Therefore, by definition, it's impossible for me to be "ignorant" about it...So, you may wanna reword yours ;)

Having a different opinion does not make a person ignorant...Although MOST of what I stated was FACT

I had a little surprise myself...He's watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force at the moment...I certainly wasn't planning on having anymore kids, especially at my age...But...I never once considered 'getting rid' of him

And neither does the woman, if she gives it up for adoption

It ain't doing all that when it's a 4 week old embryo.

There is a lot more to pregnancy and childbirth than stretchmarks. Come on Rayne surely you know that.


I know what ignorant means and that why I chose that word. Perhaps I should have said "I can't believe how ignorant you seem", because, I thought you of all people would never say something like if you don't want a baby then don't get pregnant. That is just not that bright of a statement.
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I'm very happy for you and Ash and Dustin. But that still does not give you the right to decide for another person what to do.

Yah, approx NINE MONTHS later! Geez, the guy doesn't have to go through ANYTHING physical unless you find him and beat the hell out of him for being such an asshole.

The first step would be to blame yourself for sleeping with the guy and stop blaming the guy. It's not his fault that he doesn't have to go through childbirth.

It's still human..It's not a fish

Here's another fact...MOST people don't even KNOW they're pregnant until 6-8 weeks (after they miss that period)...Unless they KNOW they had sex without precaution and are fervently testing every week after the fact

Like vomiting?...Some people don't vomit at all...And people will risk vomiting to get drunk

Swollen ankles?...It goes away, it isn't THAT big a discomfort

The pain of childbirth?...Yeah, that's a doozy...But, it only lasts a little while...And with an epidural, you don't even have to deal with it at all

Nothing associated with being pregnant is bad enough to merit taking the life of a baby to avoid it

And no matter what happens...It's still not the baby's fault...Why is the life of the mother so much more important than the life of the baby?...The mother was a baby once, too...When did her status change to being a more important person, or a person who deserves life more?


Thanks, he's a doll...But, DAMN is he a stubborn little thing :)

I wasn't deciding anything for anyone...I stated a few facts, asked a couple of questions, and stated my opinion

Just as you have stated yours...And I didn't chide you for it

Blame yourself for sleeping with the guy??? OMG. THE GUY IS JUST AS RESPONSIBLE!!!!!! What are you, a fucking caveman? (No, I don't work for Geico.)