What is Goth?
 

Maybe I have misinterpreted what Goth was supposed to mean. I was always under the impression that the title of 'Goth' was reserved for an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation. A person who dressed with class, maybe dark colors, but more a dark chic.
Now I see 'Goth' being defined as a bunch of rebellious punks who don't really know anything about much of anything. H.P. who? Bella what? Rather than speaking intelligently they spout vulgarity and pretend that no one understands them and they are really dark complex people, when in fact they are just whiney teenagers like all the others. I see Gothic style being used as an excuse to dress like a slut. What happened to class?
Does anyone else feel this way?

It grew into a fad. "Goth" style became the McDonald's of teenage rebellion.
You want to bug your parents? Paint your nails black and listen to NIN.
That's the way it is out here, anyway. And I would like to state again that I am not encompassing ALL people who dress like this in my statements.
Only most of them.;)

apparently goth isnt anything to do with the people who dress goth, go to goth clubs or listen primarily to goth music.




:cool:



it seems to me that there are 3 types of 'goths'

1) pop culture goths .. they like the 'look' and the music (for whatever fucking reason) but they arent contemplating the hopelessness/helplessness of life 24/7 and although they think on the surface it would be cool to be a vampire - they have no real desire to be one.

2) the 'classic' goth. (various degress of commitment) they want to think they are vampires. they think death = beauty etc .. that whole, "poor little dark haired girl with a dead black rose woe is me the world is pain i should just die" thing.
Sorry kids - but the music is the silliest shit i've ever heard ... so overblown and dramatic .. subtle as a flying mallet.

3) faux goths.. play goths who like to dye their hair black, put on black lipstick, and then run around saying 'look at me, i'm a goth'

we've had this long running discussion in the general forum before ... some people get upset, some get defensive .. (especially in a horror forum which attracts 'goths' like moths to a flame) and all i can say is that if it looks like a rose, smells like a rose, feels like a rose ... its probably a rose.

(sorry - black rose)


edit to add ..


mostly its a way to get noticed and enjoy the thrill of other (people looking at them and saying/thinking 'oh look at the weirdos' which is like gold to these guys.

i'll have to admit - i mostly laugh.


that being said - some people can pull it off - the look .. . but the lifestyle - please ...

fake goth chicks put out like there's no tomorrow, real goth chicks are too mopey and depressed to put out at all

Re: What is Goth?
 

What you described is someone who doesn't need to hang a label on him/herself.

Labels are for weak-willed lemmings. You don't need 'em Demeter.

Re: What is Goth?
 

You're thinking of Asian people

why is this in upcoming horror movies?

because Demeter beats children

Re: Re: What is Goth?
 

how do you feel about the people who label themselves ?

Goth , not goth, how cares. Personaly I hate it when people call me 'goth'. Yes, I dress mostly in black and like Sisters Of Mercy and Christian Death. Big deal, I'm much more then the clothes I wear and the music I listen to. Labels are terrible because the just pigeonhole you into a certain style or such, and everyone thinks they know all about you because of that label.

i think the music sucks and the cloths are terrible looking , but like you said that does not give people the right to put a lable on you just because you look the type.

Re: Re: Re: What is Goth?
 

Someone want to label others or me? Fine, go ahead, totally your perogative. Where would dirty jokes be without labeling people into easily definable groups. I do it all the time. Love a good, offensive, nasty, racist joke.

But labeling yourself just seems like a desperate act; like you know yourself just well enough to drop the whole of you into a category.

Go ahead, limit yourself. Makes it easier for others to pick on you.

and to STE - the Asians really are better at math than literature - that and playing the violin - and the ole chop-sockey

What is Goth?? Erm...lemme think. I know what it isnt if that helps? It's NOT an upcoming horror movie :P

First of all, you cant escape a label. Don't dress and act like a monkey unless you want to be called one.
Second, STE, Real goth girls do put out, just not to every guy.
Third, if you dont like the post in this topic, I apologize, but I have seen other posts that do not fit as well.
Fourth, I feel as though everyone here got the impression that I am goth. Not true, you couldnt pick me out of a crowd for liking for horror movies and listening to Sister of Mercy or whatever, because I understand what the modern perception of goth is and wish to avoid the association. My adivice the everyone else is if you want to avoid the role, dont audition.

thats the exact thing i was going to say ..

a lot of people actively - conciously - seek out that label. they want to be associated with what it represents.

it goes for rockers/rude boys/hippies/70's metal rockers/soccer moms/yuppies/preppies/punks/rastas/ravers/

fuck the list is endless.
'sure some people pick and choose from the music/fashion/venacular that defines these factions of pop culture (THE LABEL) but if anyone thinks for one second that the majority of people DONT want to be associated with what the uniform they wear represents then you're fucking brain-addled.

kids have always gravitated towards things that will give them an identity - peers - commonality.

the ones that puzzle me are the ones who take great lengths to look a certain way .. and then say .. 'pardon me - i'm not a _____'

ok ... maybe you arent - whatever - you sure want to look like one. So does that make you a fake one ?

personally i never found a niche that called to me .. i listen to absolutely everything ... i never used the popular 'slang of the day' ... i dress the way i did when i was 5 years old (tshirt - jeans - sneakers)

my criteria is that they fit .. and darker colours - because they are slimming.

i'm too far down to earth to invest any time in trying to be a member of a fringe group .. unless there is an identifiable fringe group made of people who ignore trends as frivilous and unworthy of the money/energy/dedication it takes to maintain the facade.

in short - i couldnt be arsed.

but i think its healthy for kids to experiment if they want .. its part of the growth process ... adults doing it ... hmmm .. well ... to each their own i guess.

i've always believed that you build character from the inside. trying to do it from the outside is a pretty sad substitute.

What annoys me is when someone is a goth, or a grunger or emo and they say they are like that because they want to be individual. They even go as far to say phrases like "You laugh at me because I'm different, I laugh at you because you're all the same".

They are so hipocritical, how are they individual and different, when they all dress the same and look the same?! Goths etc look the least individual than ANYONE else.

If they know that they arent individual for being in a group then fair enough, but when they act like they are individual and the rest of the world isnt, then they must seriously be lacking some brains.

I dont belong to any group, because I dont feel I can be pigeon holed as I really am individual, and my own person.

(Of course no offense to anyone, I have nothing against goths or anyone else for that matter. :))

Thank you for understaning my point about perpetuating stereotypes, and the lame excuses for doing it.

So I should change the way I dress and the music I like so I can avoid being labeled? That's a bunch of shit. Perhaps others should not be so quite to judge people by looks. I don't 'audition' for a role, and am not a monkey. I like what I like and will not change that for anyone, and if you do that's sad.
And if you're not goth, why do you even care?

I think this thread should end. It's only going to cause arguments :(

I for one don't have anything against anyone, goth or not (well maybe chavs :P). I think having lots of different types of people is what makes a society, and when we all learn to accept everyone for who they are the better.

I really dont see any need to discuss this any further, like I said it can just cause arguments, or cause people to get offended....which is definately not what we are here to do. We are a community who like horror movies, and as long as we dont for instance; murder people...who cares how we look/dress and what music we listen to? :P

You forgot perverted old men,

what do they dress like ? raincoats ?

this is a forum ..
in a forum people discuss ideas, points of view.

not accepting people was never an issue .. just observations.


and the people who get upset ...
why is that ..? no one has bashed anyone personally ..


some kid laughing at me for driving a family van wont upset me in the least..

if you're secure in what you do - no worries ..who cares .. nothing to get upset about.

I know, I know. I'm just saying that many a time I've seen threads go nasty, and don't want them to :D

I care because I'm a hell of a lot closer to being a real goth than half of the skimpy dressed freaks out there who have never even read a real horror story of know anything about the real goth culture at all. Because its gotten a reputation as being abunch of "misunderstood" idiots dressed up like vampires. Thats why I care.

so what is the real goth culture .. what do you define 'a goth' as ?

Ostergoth, Visigoth?

Man, those barbarian hordes are making a comeback.

I liek the Mongol look smyself, but thats me. Big fan of fur boots.

like w/ every attitude, cultural fad, way of life, constitution, whatever, there are the posers and the ones that keep it real. i personally do not follow any one lifestyle, religion, attitude, trend. i like to keep an open mind and let my spirit lead the way.

see, i dont know whats weirder ..

the people who 'keep it real' or the posers.

i'm not just talking about goth - but any pop culture niche group.

when i say weirder - i mean weirder to me - because i never got the whole 'i wanna be identified as a.....' deal.
I still maintain that if you're a kid and want to experiment and dress up and be a this or that - go for it..

Read the begining of this thread.

Well, I always saw the goth stereotype as a group of teens and preteens who are usually unhappy with their family or social situation, and instead of trying to find a way to break themselves out of their depression they choose a lifestyle that lets them wallow in it. Obviously, it's easier to accept depression and build yourself around that than to be proactive and improve yourself. So they wear black clothes and listen to music about death and are usually pretty nasty to anyone who is (or at least seems to be) happy with themselves. Once again, this is just my interpretation of the stereotype.

As for all cultural groups, it's just an easier way for everyone to make outside impressions on others without having to actually talk to him or her. It's like a TV guide; you don't need to watch the show to know what it's about, you have a quick summary of it and a label of what kind of show it is (drama, comedy, etc.)

"intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation. A person who dressed with class, maybe dark colors, but more a dark chic."


1st time i've heard it described as such ..

goth is short for gothic is it not ?

the clothing styles reflect that (for the wealthier hardcore folk)
but these are usually reserved for clubbing (people of age)

otherwise it's kids at the local mall.

goth music - the bulk of it - is pretty identifiable by the subject material (gloom and doom - in epic proportions) as well as the heavy operatic sound.

i dont know anyone who calls themselves a goth that fits your description ...

well, i do - except for the dress with class part :D

Yeah, black denom with gigantic chains is really classy.

not me !

blue jeans, running shoes - tshirt

no jewelry at all either ..
not even a wedding ring .. since i jammed my finger blocking a volleyball and my knuckle never went back to normal size ..

Still goin' strong on the volleyball, eh?

Yeah, I'm good with my clothes, too... I used to be really trendy and preppy when I was in college, now I just wear my work shirts and jeans. My "cultural group" is defined as "poor" I guess.

Re: What is Goth?
 

Do you actualy know anything about the history of 'goth'? I'd saw not. 'Goth' grew out of the punk movement in the early '80s, and was defined by it's style and the music. "...an intelligent, intellectual, a person with a strong literary background who could carry on an intelligent conversation." These things had nothing to do with it. That can be an element of it, but just like anywhere else there are people dump as posts involved that you can't avoided.
Where do you get your definition from?

Don't you mean 'silver'?...Gold is gaudy :p

I, personally, don't draw any attention to myself, I prefer it that way...I'd much rather 'hang out in the shadows' :cool:


As for the original question (the title of this thread)...I still haven't been able to answer that question, or have it answered satisfactorily (to a point that it makes any sense)...People have called ME 'Goth', to which I ask "What does Goth mean?"...The definition that they struggle to give, does not fit me...Thereby proving them wrong...Or misinformed...

I think that people just feel more comfortable being able to put everything into a neat little box, that's why they feel they must label everything...

If I have to be labeled, I believe that more than anything else, I'm a mom (the most important job in the world) and a 'horrorfreak'...I live, eat, and breathe this stuff...That's about it

But...What does it matter anyway?


To each his own

thats a huge cop-out ..

for every person who feels the need to 'put things in boxes' there are 100 people who label the boxes themselves then jump right in.

you cant possibly ignore the fact that many many many people want the label of 'insert pop culture identity here'

Re: Re: What is Goth?
 

No, the Goth movement was not formed in the early '80s as a result of punk music. Thats when Goth became commercialized and turned into what it is now. A bunch of Punks. The earliest form of Goth in American culture dates back to the late 1800's and really took off in the roaring 20's. That is when it was designated a style trend. A trend that varies in everyway imaginable from what it is today. You are terribly misinformed.

Re: Re: Re: What is Goth?
 

was goth the name used then ?

I thought "Goth" was the sound the bathtub made when you pulled out the plug....