In Order To Be Fair, I Need The Opinions Of EVERY Member Of This Forum...Old And New
 

I do NOT want opinions based on how you feel or what you think about the specific people involved in this...I do NOT want anyone to agree with ME, for any reason, if you truly do NOT agree with what I have said...

I want NOTHING but blatant honesty...It IS important, because this issue has been raised MANY times before...Not only concerning the members mentioned here, or in just this one incident

I would like to have this worked out once and for all so that we can move on

You will ALL be playing 'moderator consultants' in this thread...If it turns out that I have made a bad decision, or do not seem to have a firm enough grasp on how to 'perform my duties'...I will step down as moderator...Yes, it IS that important...Here is what we're working with:


The Request
My Response
His Last Word
And finally My Last Word
So...That's where we are now

I need your opinions on what you think about this situation...ESPECIALLY the interpretation of 'malicious attacks' and how to differentiate between just getting on someone's nerves because you may not like them, and an all out assault

I would also like to know what YOU (all of you) feel IS and is NOT a 'bannable offense'...Or should/should not be

Understand?

We (all of us) have a tendency to argue from time to time, usually because we may disagree with someone, or we simply cannot tolerate them for whatever reason...Differences of opinions and personality clashes are common for ANY societal situation...I don't feel that it would be prudent to ban someone for common human behavior

I truly believed that people understood where to draw the line, and knew when they were crossing that line

Is anyone here confused about how much is TOO much?

Now...It's your turn...I need you to be 'moderator consultants'

If ANYONE flames ANYONE in THIS thread...You will be banned...I swear to you in the name of all that is horror, I WILL do it

That is NOT what this thread is for...I need intelligent, well thought out, level-headed, unemotional responses ONLY...If any part of this pisses you off, express your anger/frustration in a PM to the party it should be directed to (preferrably ME...I can handle it), but absolutely NOT here...I believe that we are ALL mature enough to do this the right way...

Please don't make me ban you, just to prove that I will...I honestly HATE banning ANYONE...I think it's ridiculous that adults should have to be controlled by someone else...We SHOULD be able to control OURSELVES...It's disgusting

I will be taking everything that you say here into consideration

*awaiting your responses*

To be honest, the "It Stops Now" thread will lose any and all meaning and integrity if nothing is done about that, now that this whole thing has come to light.

Dep was instigating, and it's not like the mods can slap someone on the wrist here. Banning just means you have to come up with a new name and profile. Its no doubt annoying, but it;s hardly like being kicked out of the playground, never to return.

Thank you, Vod...I appreciate that

So...You feel that if someone calls someone a loser, they should be banned?...MY interpretation of a 'malicious attack' was a little more than that...Perhaps I have been TOO tolerant...everyone has a different perception of things

That is EXACTLY why I need the opinions of EVERYONE here...It helps a lot :)

Calling someone a loser is one thing. im not saying that its a blanket rule, you call someone a loser, you get banned, but in this case...

There is a dog next door. its a friendly dog most of the time, but it doesnt tak emuch to get him going. so you tease it with a stick. You completely deserve it when your mother backhands you for trying to get it riled up.

same here. its based on history, he KNOWS who he is messing with and was doing it to start shit.

Now, if there was no history there and he was just some guy who went back and read the thread and said "you did that? man, what a loser." that would be a completely different thing.

I think you also have to take into consideration the person's intent. It was obvious that desposable was trying to bait cheeba because he knew he could get a rise out of him. It may not have "sounded" malicious, but, again, it was the intent of the post to get under cheeba's skin.

Does this make sense? Or is my menopausal brain failing me again?

All I'm saying is, you should back up the rules you put forth, if you intend for them to be taken seriously at all. I was banned, wasn't I? No argument from me about it.
I think any kind of behaviour that is clearly intended to instigate trouble (whether or not you claim afterwards that it's a joke, or you "weren't being serious") or evoke an agrumentative reaction ought to be acted upon.
If not, then more often than not, there will be retaliation, and a continued argument, and will more than likely take place on the forum threads as opposed to within private messages...which I believe is why you set out the "rules" in the first place.
I had intended to come back here and post relevantly, as I have been...yet, when a person is faced with insults and demeaning comments, and no kind of "authority" is willing to step on this kind of bullshit, it will either continue via means of certain people trying to "bait" others, or, one is left with no choice but to retaliate...and so on, and so on, and so on...

this was a much better way of saying what i was trying to say :)

BTW...I just wanted to add that 'Personal Moderating' is the ONE thing that pisses me off concerning moderators...I have actually 'STRONGLY cautioned' a couple of moderators for that type of bullshit myself...I have called people on it a couple of times in the moderator's forum (that you guys can't see, but I have no reason to lie to you), and when we 'moderators' discuss shit, I have vehemently expressed my disgust for it...

If anyone feels that I have been guilty of 'personally moderating' myself...I apologize that you may have perceived something I have done or said in that manner, BUT you are wrong...It's that simple

I treat everyone (except Bane) the same way here...I feel that I have been MORE than fair


You guys can discuss THIS statement, too...If ya like

Here's the thing, Bloodrayne...you're a moderator, right? And you're not a robot, you're a person. Your decision on what "crosses the line" is up to your interpretation. There's NO WAY to accurately DEFINE when something someone types is offensive or malicious. It's purely up to the interpretation of the person looking at it. It's a hard job!

Heck, I jokingly called someone a "LOSER" once, and it was a joke, and everyone understood that, and it was funny. Technically, I insulted that person, but it wasn't "meant" maliciously, and in my opinion, it wasn't a flame; it was a joke. Was my joke objectionable? Not my job to decide that.

So who decides when something is "meant" with sufficient malicious intent to be objectionable?

You do, because you're the moderator.

Well, I think we're going into an extremely grey area here. What Dep said was borderline antagonizing. Where do we draw the line, though?

BTW, YOU KNOW I LOVE YOU BLOODRAYNE AND THE FOLLOWING IS JUST AN EXAMPLE!

For instance, if I said:

"Bloodrayne, you really annoy me. As far as I can see, you've been irking people for a long time. Why don't you ltry to make your posts relavent or go somewhere else?"

That's an opinion, although being a strong and possibly hurtful one. Being blunt upsets people sometimes.

Then again, if I posted:

"Bloodrayne, you're a fucking annoying idiot. All you do around here is piss people off with your idiotic shit. Either learn to not be such a fucktard, or fuck off?"

Well, I said basically the same thing, but that time it was obviously to try to bait you into a flame war. It's still the same opinion, but it's intentionally malicious & hurtful.

Where do we draw the line? I don't know. I'm sure cheebs is upset because he got banned for breaking the rules, and now he sees what is in his opinion breaking the rules going unpunished.

I feel what Dep said is borderlining between the two examples I offered above. Whatever we decide, we need to think long and hard about it. If this is going to be the example, it's going to need to stick or the whole thing is pointless. I don't want to have to sit through a bunch of people spewing bile at each other, but I also want to be able to tell someone they're being annoying without fear of being banned.

Okay...I want to respond to ALL of the posts that you guys made while I was typing out my last post...Cuz...I type s-l-o-w-l-y :D

Gimme a sec...Or...a couple

..the only reason to ban someone is when somebody deliberately tries to sabotage this forum...namecalling and such must be tolerated...even words like; loser, you fucking whore, fucking noob, cocksucker......spamming is sabotage....

Oh hey, now there's a productive response...

First of all, I think everybody can draw the line between a bit of ball-busting among friends and associates, and an insult/insinuation/statement of malicious intent.

As for profanity...I personally don't think "cunt" "cocksucker", and any or all insults/words of a derogatory nature in regard to sexual preferance, or race should be ablt to enter into the forum.

Shit, bullshit, fuck...whatever, those are pretty commonplace and as long as theyre used within moderation, that's ok.

The other stuff, however is a little overboard, considering the problems we've had with some of the younger members parents...etc, and no doubt how the horror community is viewed at large, I think there's certain limits to the profanity that should be enforced.

Besides the point of the thread, but, I think that slasherman bought up a valid point, in his way...

*Edited because I got one of the names wrong - sorry*
BR-

I think you did the right thing here. It is unfortunate that some in the forum don't like each other and even more unfortunate that they seem to seek each other out to demonstrate their dislike for all to see.

I don't think there is any logic in the claim that the letter of the law must be absolute or the law is meaningless. No system of actual jurisprudence functions that way - there are interpretations of the law, precedents, case-law, etc. All these are ways of saying that a given community has rules but always applies those rules to a given situation in ways that are sensitive to the particulars of that situation.

What is really at stake here - I think - is whether we want to put the power of interpreting the rules and applying them to a given situation in the hands of the moderators. In other words are the mods to be the judges who decide these questions. I think the only logical answer is 'yes.' The other alternatives are: 1) Allow the wronged party to decide if a rule was broken. In this case we would allow Cheeba to decide that the unpleasant things said about him are a violation and, in effect, allow him to ban Dep. Two problems with this - 1) it would be too intensely subjective (I mean I could take offense at being called a "silly monkey" if I were in a particularly bad mood and then demand that the person be banned even though I have called myself a monkey on many occassions (though never silly - hmm). . . and 2) in practical terms this would probably end up with everyone being banned (hell, i might even ban myself). A second alternative would be to allow each person to decide for themselves if they did or did not violate the rules - so in this case Dep would decide if he was in violation. . I think this one is obviously unworkable and would lead us back to the days of endless STFU NOOB posts *shudders*

The only viable alternative to the dilemma is to have some neutral third party decide on rule violations. In our configuration those are mods. The only way I could see to improve this situation (if people really really feel certain mods are being unfair) would be to have occassional 'elections' where, perhaps a certain mod could be given a vote of 'no confidence.'

But, in principle, it seems to me that BR is the mod and in my experience is fair and reasonable in her judgments. So I give my full vote of confidence and my genuine hope that people can either get along or at least stay out of each other's way.

Peace out!

I would hope so too, it's my reason for bringing this all up in the first place.
I cannot claim complete innocence in terms of things said and wrongdoing in the past, but right now, I'm here to post. I like the conversations I have with people here, which is why I returned.
I didn't return to be insulted, or baited into taking a step towards the negative again...I'm the first to admit I have a short fuse, but I'm trying not to let that effect me, it doesn't help when a person/people make it their sole intention to ignite it.

its a good point and i for one think its good to raise and discuss. its almost a pity we can't have that ignore key you get in some chat rooms so you could just not see the posts of certain members (of course if that were the case all my posts would be invisible :( )

:D

...
 

Agreed. Glad to see you come back btw :)

BR: I think you're doing a great job at pretty much singlehandedly moderating this place.

I don't agree with this-this post is going too far (yet I did have to click to read it cause this person is on my ignore list). I'm a newbie and I have been treated pretty bad so far and if this kind of stuff keeps up I don't want to be associated with this forum and I would/will encourage others to do the same if I decide to leave.

That being said, I think that we need to use common sense. If you don't want to be called a loser or worse or a "spammer" because you post one message then you should show other people the respect that you think YOU deserve.

If you call someone a loser or anything else I think you should expect to see consequences. As adults in this society, we don't have to tolerate such conduct. Yes, I know that we have a First Amendment right (I AM in law school) to freedom of speech, but as the former post says-Your rights stop where other's rights begin-and we all have the right to NOT be a part of this kind of activity.

While it's true that we can turn the other cheek, we shouldn't HAVE to do so because we are ALL allowed in the forum and we all have rights. Respect them all and be nice to eachother and then you won't see these type of discussions.

As I said in one of my posts before, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Keep your opinions to yourself and you won't have these problems. If you must disagree, just respectfully dissent and don't harrass (I have been harrassed already because I posted a thread in the correct place (in upcoming horror movies) about Sin-Jin Smyth).


Therefore, I agree with some of the others in stating that the post saying this has to stop will be undermined and will have absolutely no meaning if offensive language and conduct of any kind should be punished. After all, that person can come back with a different handle if he sees fit. All he has to do is 5 minutes of extra work to come back. I think it's all fair.

We do have ignore. Click on the person's profile and hit ignore on the bottom. There are a few that I can't see their posts without clicking them.

my god . . . i could have been ignoring all of you idiots the entire time. . . then my real fantasy of a HDC made up of only my posts would finally come true!!!


JOY!!:D

BR, you already know that I, personally, think we should be able to say whatever we want. But since that's not really the debate at hand, I'll say this... If you, as the mod, feel like someone crosses a line then you , as the mod, should step in and, at your disgression, give them a warning or a banning, if warranted. Members should be allowed to voice a complaint to you and at that point you can scope it out and make a decision. But if the complaining member continues to harrass you in regards to your follow up, that should be grounds for banishment. Once you have rapped your moderatory gavel, that should be the end of it. If Dep should be banned for making fun of a guy who spammed the entire forum with total bullshit for a couple hours in a row one night because someone didn't like his recipe :rolleyes: , then I probably should be banned a couple hundred times over as well because I hit up almost every spammer that comes in here...

I guess what I'm saying is that I think everyone here trusts your disgression and if they don't, tough shit, because you're the moderator. Either they can get over it or go somewhere else. Maybe get rid of 'It Stops Now' and replace it with a 'Mods Have Discretionary Jurisdiction' thread...

Shut up, retard...

:D


Just Kidding. I personally havent seen you post a thing that would justify ripping on you. This place had a terrible rep for a while,a nd almost no new members because of all the "hazing" that was going on. If yoou are seriously calling someone "reatrd" on an internet forum because they are a "newb", you need to go outside and let the sun sear the stupidity from your skin. it's that bigbright thing above your head.

Dont look right at it. Dummy.

If I'm merrily posting around and someone makes a nasty comment for no reason, no adult reasoning on Earth is going to keep me from answering in kind. Cheeba may have had enemies, but he wasn't hurting anybody when the comment was made. I think going to the mod was pretty commendable, and it's better than I would have done. If he can put a lid on his temper and ask for assistance, then as much as I hate to condemn a person, he should get some. The nastiness was completely unprovoked.
Everybody deserves another chance without being TOO harassed. This prodding went beyond the pale.

My two cents.

can i get change??


just kidding :D

I do agree with most of the posts in this thread. If someone is obviously insulting someone to try to start a fight, they should be punished for it. This forum has more than enough shitty posts to meddle through without having to read established members flaming each other.

HOWEVER...

We have literally taken a poll on whether this person should be banned for calling someone else a "loser". I just think people have gotten away with much worse in the past, and I would hate to see this forum turned into a place where members are censored. If we ban someone for this, the line will be drawn and it will just keep getting drawn further back until we have nothing interesting left to talk about because we can't voice our opinions without getting banned.

You should be banned for your comments, orang. Rabble rouser. Roustabout. Uhh.. Commenting person.

I agree with slasherman.

I´m the type who ALWAYS joke around with people. That´s about half my post count right there.

But now i don´t know if i cross the line of what´s right or wrong anymore. I´m the same irritating person that i´ve always been, but i´m not sure if i´m alowed to be so anymore.

My post in Phalanx´s thread in the "new members" forum is a perfect example.

I don´t like to make excuses everytime i pull someones leg. Then the fun stops emidiately.

In my (god-like) opinion, bannable offenses are like porn. There's not really a good clear-cut definition, but you know it when you see it. You can't say "Oh, if you do this, this, this or this then you'll get banned" because one could find exceptions or loopholes to any of the rules if they tried, and the only thing you can do to prevent exceptions or loopholes is by making some concrete, air-tight, blanket rule like "If it offends someone you're banned" in which case you may as well ban everybody because what's offensive or not is subjective and anybody can say they were offended without any proof. So basically you can't really have a clear set of rules for it, it kindof has to be incident-by-incident.

I wasn't here for what Cheeba did. The little bit I saw made it seem like he reacted like a little girl over absolutely nothing. But I wasn't here for 80% of it, so I can't say for sure

....read this again....

I disagree....

Sometimes "pulling the leg" of a newbie isn't really the best way to keep members. Most of the time, the posts aren't equivalent of that so someone needs to know when to draw the line. I know.

You can have my two cents.
I don't really need it.:D

It’s a mods duty to interpret what is a malicious attack and what is simply an opinionated statement. If somebody says they think I’m an opinionated, sarcastic asshole then fine, that’s their opinion; but if somebody dedicates a thread to it or constantly incites me with personal insults in every thread I post in then they’re trying to start something. There has to be some leeway because everybody can’t just “all get along”, that simply isn’t human nature, but we can control ourselves and not make constant verbal assaults.

EXTREMELY good points...

But..That makes me feel like we have to be very cautious in every post that we make, and first consider "Okay, so If I say 'this', how will the person I am saying it to respond to it?"...Hmm, actually...Maybe that's not such a bad idea...Duly noted...Thanks, Vod and Hammerfan :)

Every rule has exceptions...This was actually based on determining the DEGREE of an insult (because, although most forums will not allow you to insult ANYONE in ANY way...We often do it playfully, and sometimes just to express our depth of disagreement or distaste for someone or some thing)...Which was why it was written 'Maliciously attacks', which is obviously a matter of broader perception than we have anticipated...For example: You can tell someone that they're ugly, and they may laugh at you or say "looks don't matter anyway", or say that you're even uglier...Someone else, may be completely crushed by it....This is where 'knowing something about the person you're talking to, and how they may react', comes into play (thanks again, Vod) That was much appreciated...Anyone who is banned should consider WHY they were banned, and accept it (not including the 'mysterious bannings' that were never explained or admitted to (Although, I STILL have my suspicions, and I'm pretty sure I'm right)...That was MAJOR bullshit, BTWOkay...So, how about a warning?...One warning, or a 3 strikes thing?...Then banning?...I don't believe that ANYONE here wants to see the page after page bullshit that we have seen in the past...Ideas for how these things should be 'acted upon' will be appreciated
I have to disgree with this one...You ALWAYS have a choice...As a matter of fact, it's THAT choice that defines what type of person you are...You CAN choose to 'let it go'...'ignore it'...intelligently defend yourself without being immature, insulting and argumentative...Just say, "fuck you, too" or "I know you are but what am I?"...lol...or "So what?"...Or make a funny remark in response (Newb and Zero are excellent at that :D)...You NEVER have to stoop to someone else's level

Thanks Sweetheart...That was really considerate...But, don't forget..."Absolute power corrupts absolutely"...As a human being, we all have emotions (some more than others), because of that, something that I may decide to do may be seen as an act of 'personal moderating'...I MUCH prefer to take the 'majority rules' route...I think it's a lot more fair...I am NOT a tyrant, or a dictator...And, I feel that EVERYONE'S opinion matters :)

Thanks so much for the input
Hmm, let's see...What would I say to that?...Well, let me tell ya what happened...Dustin was sitting here reading this with me (he's not a LOT of help on this matter, because he thinks JUST LIKE ME, for the most part), and when we read this...I laughed so hard I choked :D...Dustin laughed, too

Another excellent point...very similar to Vod's and Hammerfan's...which goes back to the 'consider WHO you are 'speaking' to, and a possible negative reaction when you post'

Exactly...That's why THIS thread was made
And THAT'S why the 'It Stops Now' thread was made
That's what I am SERIOUSLY trying to keep from happening (the fear of being banned, just for speaking your mind...That's bullshit)...To EVERYONE

Babe...I love you, but...WTF?!:D...And yeah, spamming just seems very insulting to the forum..."Hey, I want you all to be interested in MY SHIT, but I'm not interested in YOUR FORUM, thanks, bye bye"...Assholes

Well...I was HOPING so, anyway...

I honestly don't believe those words are EVER truly used in that context here...Not literally...I don't believe that if someone calls someone a 'Mother Fucker', that they are trying to insinuate that someone is having an incestious relationship, nor do I believe that when someone says "Fuck You", they are making an offer to have sex with them...I think choosing which WORDS you can, and cannot say, is way too much censorship...However, the 'N' word, is ALWAYS incendiary and never needs to be used in ANY context

This was MY point :)

That's why I'm bringing this to you guys...I believe that we can effectively acheive 'neutrality', by averaging the opinions of the majority...Know what I mean?

Ive been saying that for 3 years, Sweetie...I feel ya

Thanks for ALL of what you said...I hope others take it into consideration as well

I'm going to have to respond to the rest of you guys in a seperate post...Actually ran out of room! :eek: ...That's NEVER happened before

Hmmm, in retrospect, maybe it wasn't the best example using ME saying it to YOU. Actually, I was laughing while I typed it. Oh well, such is the way of us "fucktards" on HDC:D

BTW, just as a "food for thought" question:

If we decide that Dep needs to be banned over this, where does that leave a good majority of us with the way we treat ThomasGeorge? I mean, seriously, the guy seems to take it in stride, but almost EVERYONE here insults him in almost every thread he makes.

For some reason that reminds me of High Plains Drifter....

which was a precursor to The Gate in that it used to be my answer for every "What movie was this?" thread

You at least understand my reference, right?

yea

The core of this group is tightly knit enough, I think, to get away with a lot of profanity and strong subject matter. And we take full advantage of it too; I think it's safe to say that we're a very harsh crowd when compared to other forums or chatrooms or internet whatcha-macallem's.

That being said, dulling this place down would be like putting a gun to our heads... suiciiiiiide. We need the loose lingo, the slingin' slander. It's what makes (or made, in the eyes of some) this forum interesting and unique.

Now, I'm not saying we should be able to badmouth everyone and anyone we choose. Calling folks "cunts" and "asswads" and "trannies" when there's really no point is just dumb, and it should be taken to a group of 13 year old boys if a laugh is what you're looking for. I say we go by the honor system; if you hate somebody and want to give em' the old verbal haymaker, do it in a PM or through some other form of communication. Example: Hellboy/Trippin and myself absolutely despised each other for our own personal reasons, but we made it a point very early (through PM's) to keep it out of the forum for everyone else's sake. I still hated him, but I had a lot of respect for the guy that he didn't want our fued to disrupt the forum.

So there's my advice. We all know there's rivalries here, we all know there's tension between members and groups. But banning won't do much of anything; we need to grow up and keep the trouble out of the spotlight.