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Reparations And Affirmative Action?...Touchy Subjects
It isn't my intention to start a race riot...I'm one of the least racist people I know...I only wanted some of your opinions on these issues...
The way I see it: 1) Reparations are a way to say, "I'm sorry for what my people did to your people"...HOWEVER...Neither I, nor anyone in my family, or my friends (which are the people that I consider to be MY people, and they consist of different races), have ever hurt any other people...So, why should we feel the need to 'repair' injustices inflicted upon others by our forefathers (that we never even knew)?....Furthermore...None of the people that are alive today, participated in this indiscretion, be they considered the victim or the perpetrator....So, who do these reparations go to?...Victims who were never victimized... Why do people STILL feel so damned guilty?..WE did not do these things... 2) Affirmative Action takes jobs away from people who are more qualified (in many cases, and I HAVE seen it myself) and gives jobs to people who are less qualified, solely because of the color of their skin...If you ask me, THAT'S racism... Affirmative Action is supposed to be a way to make certain that people are not discriminated against because of their race...However, I don't know of ANY company that would get away with racial discrimintion ANYWAY...There ARE laws...If you are discriminated against, sue the bastards, make sure they're punished, but DON'T punish EVERYONE, before the fact, just in case someone MIGHT discriminate against someone else... That's just like throwing all 10 year olds in jail, just because they MIGHT become criminals when they're 20...I sincerely see it as THAT stupid... A person should earn a job on their own merit...If they have the skills, education, experience, and/or whatever else is necessary to obtain a particular job, it should be given to them...No matter WHAT color their skin is... |
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I don't agree with a black person getting a job over a white person who is much better suited for the job, but if they are two equal applicants I believe the black person should get the job.
I think that racism still exists and the effects of slavery still effect black people today. So I support both Affirmative Action and Reparations for that reason. I feel that our government wasn't there for them then so I agree with today's government paying reparations today. I don't think anyone is racist for agreeing/disagreeing with them though. |
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I just think that your lineage has a lot to do with how you end up. I think having a strong lineage is important and I think that alot of black people living in this country were robbed of that. Slavery wasn't that long ago, afterall. Think of it like crushing a sponge in your hand. Even after you stop crushing it, it takes awhile to recover fully. If you look at your lineage, they're usually the same class. It's not usually that one family is poor, and their kids grow up to be rich etc. I think slavery seriously disadvantaged black people, because it started that cycle.
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I believe that racism (which will most likely ALWAYS exist) is more to be blamed for lack of opportunities, for ALL races, than slavery is (at the present time)...But, at what point do you break away from that past?...The opportunities ARE available now, a person can obtain a decent education no matter what their race or background, I know many people of different races that are VERY intelligent....At what point does it end?...Don't you think that somewhere along the line, it can be considered an excuse?...Will people always be able to say "I can't make it because of my ancestors' trials?" Were Will Smith, Condaleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Luther Vandross, Michael Clarke Duncan, and a million other successful people, descendants of slaves?...I don't even know, yet whether they were or not, it doesn't seem to have mattered... Hispanics, Native Americans, etcetera, were never enslaved...And yet... |
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I'm not saying it's impossible to become successful if your parents, grandparents,great grandparents etc.successful or it's impossible to move up in class, I'm just saying that I believe a strong lineage is an advantage which in the event of a tie for a job, I think the black person should get it. Well native americans weren't enslaved they were just killed outright. Good point though, sadly racism will always effect society. |
Thanks for the discussion, Angela...As always, I appreciate and respect your views......You Rock:cool:
Dustin just walked in, so I gotta go... If the rest of you guys aren't afraid to carry on this discussion, I'd love to read it when I come back in... I KNEW some of you guys wouldn't wanna touch this one...Some subjects are like Leprosy, no? :p |
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Way to heavy for me.....especially on a friday afternoon when all i have on my mind at the moment is a nice cold beer.:D |
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I'm gonna have to agree with Rayne's first post here. Even though there are laws against racial descrimination, the laws break themselves 98% of the time on this subject. I myself am not racist, but some of these things are a bit much.
This situation is kind of like not being someone's friend because they're dad cheats on his wife. That's not really the kids fault now is it? It's the same thing. I'd also like to ask the question of, why is it ok for other races to make fun of(i.e. comedians) white's, but it's racism for us to say anything about any other race?:confused: I hope I haven't offended anyone here, but if I have. My apologies. |
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I was thinking the same thing newb... I had dinner at Mavericks Steakhouse and a number of beers before work :cool: And I'm hoping to go home early so I can drink some more. Perhaps tommorrow when I'm hungover and smoking way too much I'll touch this one, but friday afternoon is not the time for serious discussion. |
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I agree with you Rayne. I am the farthest thing from racist. I have family that are of a different race than myself, my step son for example is Venezuelan and South American. I just don't see how racism is going to stop or decrease if people keep putting so much into it. Why can't we all just forgive and forget and make life so much easier for everyone?
that's all I will say. |
The thing that affects minorities today isn't so much racial as socio-economic. For instance, if we look at the Civil Rights movement as the mechanism to help minorities (in this case, mostly black minorities) assimilate into the career world and elevate in that infrastructure we're going to see some lag. It's only been forty or so odd years since the Civil Rights movement. People have had a hard time advancing in the professional world.
If you want to look at Latinos then we have a different situation. In the late 1800's and early 1900's we had a mass immigration of Italian and other eastern European nationalities. They didn't come to America speaking English. People thought they were dirty and ignorant. So, they could only advance so far in the working world, and we're talking about inner cities. Over time, they've become part of American culture. It took over a hundred years, though. The big group that part of my family is actually apart of are the Native Americans. They DON'T WANT to assimilate. They want to maintain their own culture without much interferance. You may say, "Yeah, but Haunted, what about the casinos?" Many Native American groups don't want to be associated with those casinos. Those casinos were an act of desperation. It's very ridiculous and very sad the conditions that many Native Americans live in as they are forced to sort of be a tourist attraction or novelty. However, they've got several programs and various efforts to reestablish their heritage and work toward the betterment of their people. As for racism itself: There's no excuse for it. In fact, there is no such thing as race. It's ethnicity. By and large human beings are biologically identical. We've developed skin colorations and hair textures for adaptive purposes. Race indicates different types of humans, which there aren't any. |
about 5 years ago the gubment handed out money to Native Americans. my dad had enough Creek "in him" to get some of the money, but he turned it down, because he didn't feel it was right to take it. not that he's rich or anything, he just felt the money should go to people who really needed it.
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I don't have anything to say besides how much I love that ''forgive and forget'' statement.
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Is it just me, or does it seem like people are out to play an angle. Get somthing for nothing, or, just screw you. I have known people of most raceses, and, on the face of it, we all suck. Were the blacks inslaved? Was this country taken away from the native americans? Hell, did the Irish get a bad deal at the turn of the century? Welcome to the real world! Do I seem bitter,Im not, just tired of all the whining.
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I agree with newb.....It's good to hear about a man, of any ethnicity, not taking a hand out. Most of the time you only hear about the people who live off handouts.
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It's a mixed bag, I think. On the one hand, it gives all minority students opportunities they would probably never have otherwise.
But then on the other side of it, it's kind of a stupid idea in its creation. You're doing something unequal to make equality. Kind of a paradox. Plus if I was black, I would find it a little demeaning knowing I had that stigma on me. |
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i'm going to teach myself spanish..... my step son is probably going to speak more spanish than english and i dont want him talking bad about me or his dad without us knowing it. (he is only 9 months old, incase there was confizzleation)
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Actually, that was sarcasm, I think it's a little naive. I swear, although I probably am, I'm not trying to be mean. |
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Like I said not trying to be mean, I agree with you and think it would be great if everybody did forgive and forget but I think the idea of it is naive cause it's just not going to happen. Wasn't ripping on you personally or anything. |
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If it came down to EXACTLY the same profile in every other way than race, clearly there'd be other factors to consider...attitude, references...etc, but "lets just hand the equally qualified black guy the job? Fuck all that, shit, even if I was the black guy, I'd be ashamed as a motherfucker to take a job given in such a manner. I mean, imagine the reverse, and the potential employers were conducting an interview, same questions, same answers. What if they asked the very frequently asked interview question "and why do you think you'd be good for this job?" would it be ok for his/her answer to be "Well, as you can see by my resume, I come highly qualified, oh, and because I'm BLACK, which clearly puts me over the top of all these equally qualified white folk". I wouldn't stand for that any more than I'd stand for the other applicant thinking he should have a better shot at the job on account of being white. Anyone that thinks race (regardless of which) could, or should carry them into a job should be ashamed of themselves, as should anyone that would perpetuate the situation by letting this kind of thing occur. I don't know much about the whole affirmative action/reparation thang, so I admit partial ignorance in this matter...however, there have been issues in my countrys past (different story here, but similar situation)...the whites have done some TERRIBLE things to the indigenous people of this place, rapes, kidnappings, killings, and ongoing REALLY shitty treatment of any of those that survived these things. Do I feel bad about that? Of course. Will I apologise for acts commited by descendants? No fucking way. These are things that I would never consider doing to other people of ANY race, and I would very much frown upon anyone that could even entertain the notion, and yknow what? If that doesn't cut it, I couldn't give a fuck less. I treat all people as equals, I'm an easygoing guy...I have friends from pretty much every race I've encountered here...however, that said...If and when I were to get my restaurant up and running in the future, and I was seeing applicants, it would take more qualifications than "I'm of a race trodden upon by your ancestors", to see them through their interview. Why? Because race isn't something I'd think to consider in the first place, one way or the other. Sure, if it came down to a white person and a black person, admittedly, my subconcious may have me leaning in favour if the white person, however, that's irrelevant. The outcome would be decided SOLELY on the basis of skills, experience, and disposition. In the UNLIKELY event that the two people should have exactly the same age, presentation, and qualifications, the decision would be based on the persons attitude, work ethic, and general disposition. See, throwing a job at a person because of their race, IMO, make ME look like the stupid asshole...and in all honesty, I don't think I'd REALLY be doing the person any favours if I DID. I'm all about equal oppertunity in terms of race, but that's exactly where the buck stops EQUAL means EQUAL. In regards to your comments, Trippin...I have to say that I doubt that US citizens can't get decent jobs without being bilingual, if a person is skilled enough, and puts due effort into their training, and employment, there should be nothing to hold them back. If what you say is true, this is a very unfortunate situation, and I'd reccomend leaving immediately. As for a person who speaks both another language, and english learned as a second language maybe having a better chance than an equally qualified person that only speaks english, I'd say that unless their use of english was not profficient, as unfair as it may "seem" from the perspective of the single-language person, this is fair. If that's the case, it's not about race, it IS about being a more valuable asset...and only reflects upon their effort in learning a second language. Think about it, English mustn't be any easier to pick up than any other language WE'd consider foreign...whether or not these people have learned the language through neccessity, or employment prospects, they have done so on their own steam. In this situation, the bottom line is - they are multilingual, you are not. That's all it is. Although I do agree with you on one point. If a person is to live in a country not their own, learning the local language prior to, or soon after arrival is the logical, and respectful thing to do...one might say that it would be even a little racist not to...but that's another story entirely, I just thought I'd let you know that I agree with your feelings on this matter. |
EM deemed racist amongst my peers..but em not..just over opinionated on these
matters..I totally agree with you Rayne. Em sick to death of maori (especially) crying foul !!! Every fucking day you hear on the news about maori laying claim to yet another piece of land or what ever..because of the injustices forced upon them in the early years ..ancestor wise.. They even sent a fucking letter to NASA.. demanding that they pay rent for the use of the air space over new zealand..I KID YOU NOT.. They occupy certain pieces of land ..confiscated by the crown in the early years. My outspoken veiw on this matter is... You don't own the land..remember..there was a tribe of ppl here before you came and you ran them out..(mori hori) who were eaten ..beaten ..slaughtered and forced into slavery..you fucking morons. Maori are lazy..alot of them sit on the benefits..statistic wise..thier crime rate is pathetically high.. there are more maori inmates than any other race. They walk around and bully thier way into ppls lives..if you look at them wrong they will take to you with a weapon... The land the crown has given back to them ..incuding settlement payments are immediately sold to developers and the money is spent ...not on the ppl ..but investments like the casino and rugby teams. By the way..em part maori but you would never get me to admit it on an application form. I have also had dealings with aborigines..so know what the white australians are talking about on that matter..dirty fucks they are..!!! |
George Bush does not care about black people
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I gotta step in here. Because not all of them are like that. I was born in Darwin where the majority of them are just like us. I also lived around them for about 9yrs in Perth. When I moved to sydney I came across the dirty fuckers. Drinkin metho and lazying around bus shelters. Scared the hell out of me because they were so different. They seem to be white haters here in Sydney also. I mean, there not all the same. It would be the same situation if I said that all maoris are criminals and are pretty damm violent. Too much aggression in there system. But I can't say that because I know its not true. |
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Reparations-No. The problem is, where does it stop? You can't go on handing out money to correct anything you've done in the past, and blacks shouldn't want it either. It makes it seem that what they went through can be repaired by money. And it can't. Most black dudes I know don't want reparations. They just want to be respected. That's a far bigger reward. Will it ever happen? Probably not. But money to cover for slavery is insulting to both sides. Plus the fact that many immigrants came over after slavery was abolished(like my family) and had no participation is slavery. Should I be taxed for something I didn't do? Affirmative Action-Huge failure. Liberal guilt gave way to these goverment programs, and all it has done is form a crutch for minorities to lean on. It doesn't help them, and it doesn't help white guilt. In fact, it's created a bigger divide simply because whites are now even more spiteful. It also makes minorities question themselves. "Did I get the job because I deserved it, or am I the token black guy to fill the quota?" It doesn't help anyone in the least. What should have been done 40 years ago was improving the city schools, and the cities themselves. Instead we tip toe around the problems in the community, and instead focus on pandering to minorities like they're handicapped. Quote:
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"Some of my best friends are black." -That's one of my favorites.:rolleyes:
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Telling immagrants to take the time to learn our language if they're going to adapt is kinda greedy.
People who only speak Spanish could say the same about you. If these people ARE coming to America to make a better life for them and their families (and by the way, they're taking the jobs Americans won't), you're refusing them that because you don't speak their language. White people are the MINORITY in America, there's more of "them" (if you wanna get Republican here) then there are of "us". America's a mixed bag, we're culturally diverse. So saying you're not going to learn any language but the one you speak seems weird. |
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If you planned to move to Japan, and live and work in Japan for the rest of your life, don't you think you would HAVE to learn Japanese?...Or do you think that all of the Japanese people that you end up working with, should have to know English?...Remember, you would be in THEIR country, at that point... |
Reparations and Afirmative Action are both bullshit. I'd go into why, but I'm pretty sure any reason I give has already been brought up, so all I'll say is that I haven't oppressed anybody
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And also, japan isn't like the U.S. It's pretty much just Japanese people there. We've got a shitload of different cultures and ethnicities. |
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I guess I'm in the minority here... and I TOTALLY didn't originally mean that as a joke, but that's kinda funny. |
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