OMG YOU MADE A TYPO. YOU MUST HATE YOURSELF NOW. OMG LOGIC!!!!11!! :rolleyes: For one that bitches about it so much about grammar and spelling, you'd think that you would pay a bit more attention.

Btw, why did you bother writing all the down when 1) you could have just pulled your "bug off you stupid fucker" and gotten the same result and/or 2) put me on ignore for the uhm..5th? 6th? time.

You know, why did you take me off of ignore? You know I hate you, and I take pleasure from making you look like an idiot, so why take me off of ignore? You'd think once someone has gotten beaten down so many times they'd want to stop looking like a fool. Apparently not in your case. Maybe it's just that you crave attention or something.

That must be it! You crave my attention! That's why you always take me off of ignore and continue to reply to me. Hell, you even call me Rotty. Aww.. how sweet is that? That's like a pet name. I love you too, SFF.

That's probably the same reason you came back. You CRAVE attention. Good or bad, you don't care. You were just that bored. Attention whore. :rolleyes:

BTW, you're still a skank and your kid's still a bastard.

Oh, I just though of another question. "mommy, what's a bastard? and am I one?"

Well I hope to fuck you don't lie to him. That would be bad parenting, and you always claim to be such a good parent. Or, if you don't tell him, I'm sure he'll eventually find out with age. Then kids at school will tease him about being a fucking bastard with no real father because his mother is a whore. Tell me, SFF, what are you going to do then? Are you going to accompany him to school and yell at the children that make fun of him?

I can picture that now.

"LOLOL YOU STUPID FUCKWAD. MY SON IS BETTER THAN YOU'LL EVER BE!"
"Hey you old hag. You're a whore and your son is a bastard. Those are facts, and what you said about me is assumption."

HAHAHA omg that would be so great. Getting owned by kids even younger than me lol. That even made me laugh.

Bastard and whore. One big happy family, if I do say so myself.

You're really not one to talk, considering every other line is "you can tell your mom she can have her panties back."

Rotty > SFF

LOFLLLLLL, now thats funny!!!!!!!

WILL YOU TWO SHUT UP

Incidentally, I practice Witchcraft. I'm not Wiccan per se; I'm just Celtic Pagan. I enjoy being a Witch. It comes in handy when I need to help some one or protect myself... It's a long conversation and I've bored you enough already.


By the way, No, RE, I will not put a curse on SFF. She may be a jerk, but she doesn't deserve that. Also, if she really does have a young child, I wouldn't want to be responsible for hurting a child, and that's because a curse or any type of magic creeps into all aspects of their life.

Now, I know what you're going to say: You won't do it 'cause you can't.

That a bogus argument. Just because I won't bow down and kiss butt makes me not a witch. when actually, it's quite the opposite.

I'm not dumping on you RE, I'm just second guessing you a bit. If I'm wrong in my assumption feel free to say, "Haunted, that was not my idea here."


For those who don't believe in Witchcraft...that's cool. Whatever tosses your cookies.

AMEN

Jay o waster,

In response to your question, I have a bit of knowledge and experience of wicca. My family, on my fathers side, were recognised’witches’ in their local community, and my uncle, until his death in 1985 was a well known figure in British occult circles.

I am not a practicing Wiccan, in fact I don’t practice any formal belief system myself, I do have an active interest in the occult and supernatural, and I recognise many Wiccan beliefs as valid, and highly beneficial in the modern world.

Wicca as a religion is a fairly modern idea. The word itself means ‘craft’ and is a very old English word. At one time any craft would be ‘wicca’, hence ‘whicker’ as in the furniture and even ‘wick’ as in candle wick. The word was used for any type of work undertaken by rural artisans. When words for specific trades came into existence, ‘wicca’ was applied to rural crafts and skills that didn’t have a proper name. Much of the knowledge held by rural folk that was not easily explained by religion or science was labelled ‘wicca craft’ or ‘witchcraft’

Modern ‘Wicca’ was born in the 1950’s when an Englishman called Gerald Gardner published his accounts of being initiated, and schooled by, a coven of occultism based on early pagan belifs, and ‘witchcraft. He claimed that many such covens existed in co-operation across Britain, and Eroupe. Gardner possessed a lot of genuine knowledge on occult beliefs and practices. He also possessed the age old habit of all witches to myth make, and tell tale tales. Despite some of the more the ludicrous claims made by Gardner, many people wanted to join ‘Wiccan Religion’. This proved rather difficult. Covens of witches did exist, but not as an organised religion. Occult groups were more prolific, but most of these were based on Egyptian, Hebrew, and Greek beliefs. Gardner opened up a whole new avenue for occultist’s to explore. Within 10 years there were hundreds of ative ‘Wiccan’ groups within Europe, and the European occult traditions were receiving more attention than at any time since the middle ages. Fortunately, western culture was entering a period of free expression, and greater acceptance than the middle ages ever were. Nobody got burned at the stake this time around. Gardners ideas, with their eco-friendly, love thy neighbour and her daughters message, was so attractive that it soon became one of the dominant forces in the growth of new age beliefs.

Today wicca has grown into the largest occult belief sytem in the world. It incorporates aspects of many different religions and traditions. It even branches into theoretical physics. Most of the practices and rituals of Wicca are a modern mix of old ways. This does not mean that wicca is any less relevant, or powerful than, for instance, Christianity. Many people mock wiccan beliefs and practices because they re-invent older traditions, and romanticise the past.. The truth is all religions have aways done this. Most Christian, Hebrew, and Islamic beliefs are based on older ‘pagan’ beliefs. As for romanticising the past, the garden of eden, and the ‘land of milk and honey’ spring to mind.

Wicca is a religion of our time, and a religion of the future. It creates it’s sysmbolism from our culture and times. It speaks to a great many people, and fill’s a spiritual void in them. The principles of Wicca, or ‘Wiccan Rede’ are a call for peace and understanding between all humanity. It may sound corny, but it beats the hell out of killing each other.

P.S. no, it will not give you magical Disney powers, nor will it fuck up your head.

Ok folks, you can get back to the hostilities now…

Wow, that was alot, and I quoted it, TE HE

I'm just curious here but.... "protect" yourself? From what exactly?

Do you yell HOCUS POCUS and a force field goes up? Will you be protected from bullets?

Or can you only protect yourself from obscure things, such as being hit by lightening, which more than likely isn't going to happen anyway?

Because if you can protect yourself from things like bullets... you should really do magic shows or something like that.

:rolleyes:

And how exactly do curses work? What kind of curses can you cast?

Here, I give you permission to cast a curse on me. Make my hair fall out. I'd like to see that happen. :rolleyes:

See, not once did I say "you won't because you can't." I want you to instead prove that you can. Unless of course you're going to pull something like "I don't have to bow down to you." eerr wait, I guess you already did. :rolleyes: I've yet to be impressed with any witchcraft.

Until witches are something other than the occult and supernatural, they aren't real. There's a reason why they're an underground religion.

If witches were real, a lot more people would become one in order to benefit from the "powers" of witchcraft.

for starters christian , hebrew and islamic religions are not based on any wiccan religion.the only thing they have in common are the belief in a god or gods, an some practices like easter eggs, and the like, but then again easter eggs aren't a wiccan custom.
. i would go on but im bored.and as for it being the largest cult in the world u only have buffy to thank for that. n once that shows gone and forgotten wiccans will go back to being nothing but a bunch of long haired hippies unning aroundthe woods hugging trees a raping frogs.
go with god my freind n remember
there is but one god and his name is allah.

I hate you wufongtan

RE, I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you. If you seriously want me to answer your questions, then you should seriously not go about it acting like a jerk.

However, why would you care about what I practice. You obviously think it's shit, so leave it alone. I don't have to justify myself to you. If you don't believe in Witchcraft, fine. Just leave it a lone.

Dear Mr wufongtan,

That's not what I said. If you wish to quote me in order disagree, at least have the good manners to read and understand what your disagreeing with.

Great reply haunted! I agree

Dear Mrs. Wufongtan,

I hate you.

Don't have to justify yourself to me huh? Well let's see... If I was serious about it, and had asked you those questions, would that not be justifying yourself to me? You answering my questions is justification, regardless of whether I'm serious or sarcastic. I mean... correct me if I'm wrong, but I fail to see the logic.

Alright, how about this. I'll seriously ask you those questions over, and you give me a serious response. Because, in all sincerity, I would like to know what exactly witches do. Fair enough?

So how exactly do you protect yourself? And against what types of things can you use that protection?

And how about curses? Same thing, what types can you cast, and what effects do they have?

Well there's the questions with all the sarcasm cut out. If you can think of anything else related to witchcraft that is along those lines, and interesting, please include it, because I think I'd find it intruiging.

[B] ACTUALLY[B] you did

No, Actually I said 'Pagan'. I think this is just a simple misunderstanding. By 'pagan' I do not mean the modern cult of paganism, which i closely related to modern wiccans, and very similar in many of it's ways.

Pagan simply means the worship or veneration of mythical, natural, or earthly idols, as opposed to the worship of one omnipresent entity.

Much of the Christian, Hebrew, and Islamic faiths, can be traced back to much earlier religons, and these earlier religions were pagan in thier nature.

ACTUALLY u suck, ohhhhhhhhhhh you got owned

wiccans are pagans, they aren't two seperate sects or religions.
in fact wicca or witch craft is the main form of pagan cult. and hebrew christain or islamic faith cannot be traced back to earlier pagan religions, some forms of worship like easter eggs as a symbol of rebirth etc.can be traced back to paganisim but they themselves have nothing at all to do with hebrew , christianity or islam in the true essence, the egg has been been a symbol of rebirth for centurys before christ. so it was only logical, that early christains used it asa symbol for the return of christ, it has nothing at all to do with any religuous belief of pagans being incorperated into the christain religion, the easter egg is just a symbol the early christains of the time thought of as a symbol of rebirth, it has no religous significance at all, just like any other pagan ritual. That Hebrew ,Christains or Islamic followers might incorperate into their religion.

You got owned? is that some sort of secret gay cyber acknowledgement act? The equivalent of the offline secret gay hand shake? Well if it is, I'm sorry to dissapoint you. I'm not gay.
But dont worry you can expect to see gore with his secret gay repsonce to yours. you know that PWND thing he does.

Why would you want someone to put a hex on you in the first place?? And why is it that just because this is something that you dont understand or unwilling to that you have to dismiss it as treehugging bullshit?

I have been a practicing witch for nearly 20 years, I dont hug trees, or have intercourse with frogs or anything of that nature. Yes I have long hair, I am not a hippy actually I am quite a conservative. Maybe Wicca is an underground religion because of people like you that persecute us. I myself am proud of my beliefs and dont mind telling people so if they ask. If they think that it is strange thats their business. There are actually more of us than you think, and it has nothing to do with Buffy the Vampyre Slayer.

The supernatural is science unexplained in my opinion and it does exist. I have seen things and done things that I cannot explain how they work I just know that they do. I have had visions and done readings for people that I have never met and have been dead on accurate. No parlor tricks no illusions, it is all a state of mind and if you dont believe that it will work it wont for you that is the way it is.

Can we stop bullets with magick, dont really know I have never been shot at, but I know that my beliefs would keep me out of that situation to begin with.

I guess all I am trying to say is that even though you may believe that it is all BS al ot of people dont and you wont be able to convince them otherwise probably the same way I would be unable to convince you that it was real. Although I think that it would be fun to try and prove it to you. But such things cannot be done thru a faceless computer such as this.

Read a few books and decide for yourself is all I can tell you.

The Creeper

it is espically ignorant since wicca isn't about putting hexs on people

Creeper, you are the man! I just pm'd RE in hopes that he will understnad enough to drop this conversation. I even spoke in jive. However, I do think that I shot myself in the foot.

For one thing, I pointed out that this thread was no longer around. Clearly it is, and I over looked it before. Point taken from me.

I also have a sinus infection. Handicap for me.

Once again you misunderstand what I wrote. Maybe this is clearer.

All Religions borrow aspects of thier faith from previous beliefs.

Islamic, Hebrew, and Chritian faiths incorporate many aspects of
pagan faiths that pre-date thier own existence.

Wicca is a distinct faith of it's own
Modern paganism is a distinct faith of its own

Both Modern Wicca and Modern Paganism are 'Pagan' in thier nature, both being polythiestic. This does not make them one and the same. Chritianity, and Islam are both Monotheistic, but are they the same religion?

If you want to discuss theology and history with me, then I think you better send me a pm, and we can continue our arguement that way.

Most people reading this thread are probably bored to fuck with us by now.

BTW: Do you work for the egg marketing board?

Actually, Pagan is defined as anything that is not a part of the Ibrahimic traditions. You can be Pagan and a Witch without being Wiccan. Another tradition that would fall into the catergory of "Paganism" is Hinduism of India.

Not all Wiccans are polytheistic. Many traditions believe that the Lady and the Lord are two pieces of a greater Whole. Check out Anna Moura's take on things.

I am a true polytheist. I believe in multiple Gods. However, I am also a henotheist. I believe that there is sort of a main deity, a mother deity. The Indians would call Her the MahaDevi or Great Goddess. Classically, She is Anu-The Morrighan, Isis, Inana, and Kali Ma. (Those being the the names that ancient cultures bestowed on her).

By the way, Tumper, you're not boring, and it looks like you know your shit.

I love thea/theological discussions, as a matter of fact, most people know that I have a BA in Religious Studies. I WILL get my Phd in the subject as well. I just have to earn 30k to go to grad school.

Ah the life of a scholar is never done (I'm not being pretentious, but I am being silly)

I noticed some of you seem to have misunderstood the Buffy thing, I was only pointing out the proliferation of such TV shows and movies such as the craft had increased the number of people who claim to practice these things not accusing these faiths of being driven only by Buffy! I hope that makes it clear!

… any one who describes non Christian faiths as pagan is a Christian … Hinduism etc is only paganism from a Christian stand point from a Hindu standpoint its Hinduism!

… Because all these faiths old and new are called paganism by Christianity it does not mean they are related in any way. To many people seem to be lumping Paganism, Wicca, occult and aboriginal faiths into one group when the only thing many of them have in common is that western Christianity views them as pagan!

...A great guy old Abraham, but boy, has he stirred up a hornets nest!

I am familiar with Ann Moura's work. Much of what she writes is very similar to beliefs held by my Paternal Grandmother. I believe you recommended Moura's works earlier on, and I would agree that they are a must read for anyone interested in the subject of modern witchcraft.

I hope you don't think I am being derogatory in my use of the word Pagan. In no way do I use the word in the sense of uncivilised, or 'heathen' (now theres a word I hate). Nor would I consider myself Christian for using it in this way.

It would appear that semantics is playing devils advocate in this thread!

Just to add another 'word' to the pot...The nearest I have found to a label for myself is Pantheist, although I find myself in disagreement with some aspects of Pantheism. On the whole I prefer to remain unlabeled. It allows me the luxury of exploration.

First, Feral Cat, be aware that Hinduism isn't one singular religion. It's a HUGE conglomeration of a myriad of folk religions. You're right about how Indians don't consider themselves as Pagans. They also don't consider themselves as Idol worshippers either (Idol worshipper...another good Western pejorative)

If we want to look at the title "pagan" wholistically, it only applies to "Western" religions because its a word that historically means, "from the heath." It got its insulting title from the same place that "heathen" did.

You're wrong, Feral Cat, to say that Wicca and Hinduism have nothing to do with each other. Wicca, while it's roots are older than God (quite literally) it had to reform as a religion. The founder of the Wiccan tradition was Gerald Gardner. He and many Pagan scholars birthed Wicca, the religion, by melding them with other ancient traditions. One of the most heavily borrowed from traditions was Hinduism, the other was Buddhism (another Indian tradition) A good example of this is the Wiccan notion of "Karma."

(By the way, this does in no way invalidate Wicca as a religion. All religions have borrowed, profusely, from other religions.)

I see your point about Buffy and Charmed. We Pagans and the ilk are bombarded with Silver Ravenwolf's teen witch series. A lot of the "usual suspects" from the Llewellyn crew are jumping on that band wagon. It's weird for me because I converted to Wicca in high school ten years ago (I'm no longer Wiccan, but I respect it). I don't know if I would have gone for that "teen witch" shit or not. Part of me just thinks it's degrading.

wow

Hi Haunted, like many others you know more about modern Wicca than me!
What I actually meant was not that there is no relation between many esoteric beliefs today, I meant in the original forms of the religions! Although I know some people hold the theory that these ancient beliefs are connected, I disagree with them and think it is only now people look back and find similarities!
Feral Cat

i like the way that this thread went from wicca to raging flame war and back to wicca

God i love this thread, read it from the beginning and enjoy, for those of you who weren't here to expirence it the first time around, its my favorite flame war.

Good thread.....even though SFF has the IQ of a tadpole on crack.

I like wiccans. For my experience they are not only very nice and sensible people but also very open minded towards other religions and believes. We have a really nice group of pagans of all sorts in my hometown (most wiccans but also eclectic pagans and new Finnish pagans like myself) and every month we have a lovely little meeting in one of our local cafes.

Holy shit.

I would like to be a wiccan. :cool: Where do they hang out? How do I join up?

Let's just hope they don't sacrifice virgins! :eek:

Re: wicca
 

there is no such thing as witch craft.. its been extinct for centuries
all knowledge of it has been lost. so much so the "religion" you see today. is nothing but wishful thinking, noone knows what they did during their ceremonies. its all been lost. noone really knowswhat they are doing. shit you see all the idiots dancing naked around stone hendge killing babies they kidnapped from the local hospital. even though they have no idea who made it, or even why it was made. they could be dancing around the worlds oldest out house for all they know..tell ya now boy, if any of the normal faiths (christianity, judaism or islam) that worship the one and only true god.don't tickle your fancy. try following budda. at least that dude will get a lot futher in life, than these bunch of morons who have been brain washed by shows like buffy will get you.

Re: Re: wicca
 

*smiles*

Re: Re: Re: wicca