That statement could/ and should be applied to all these political polls and threads ive been seeing here.

You people have to pull your head out of your own opinion for a second and look at the bigger picture. It doesnt matter if you think its wrong or not, hell i personally think its wrong, what matters is SHOULD YOUR OPINION BE HELD ABOVE OTHERS AS LAW??!!??.

I think no opinion should opress a persons right to think and decide for themselves and their offspring (alive or not).

I agree.

A "woman's choice" is bullshit. It's not her choice, and if she says that it is in fact her choice, she is a completely selfish, callous person.

Everyone who falls back on science is close minded. How can you believe science? They update science facts and data all the time! Science is, for lack of a better word, bullshit. What about the "Big Bang?" How the fuck can you prove that?

Easy. You wear glasses, you go to school for a while and study galaxies, you tell someone that it happened and they believe you. Sounds fun, where do I sign up?!

No. Nobody argue the "Big Bang" theory. Just don't.

Also, Rotty wrote:

"Second, it's not a life, and it can't think until a brain develops. Even then, not until the brain begins to function. Or can you really think without a brain, or function while braindead?"

Since you've guys been throwing the "how do you know?" question like you're the first person to utter that phrase...

How do YOU know? Scientific fact? But I thought no one knew more than anybody else? Isn't that what you just said?

I care if innocent children are killed, but go ahead and do so if you like. I can't stop the millions of deaths from happening. It's cool if you want to participate in abortion.

Have fun, Hitler!

It is a woman's choice. It's her body. She carries the parasite around for nine months. She gives birth. And goes through all of the pain.

When you tell me it's not her body, then who's is it?

Science is around for a reason. For example, without it we'd probably all be long dead from the millions of diseases out there. So many more people would die in childbirth without science... Yes.. I see now, science uncovers nothing. They're all a bunch of quacks.

Autopsies are performed for a reason - to learn. When there's no vital organs present in a fetus, that information is written down. As fact. This stuff isn't made up.

That is the exact quote. The "How do you know?" was in response to all of you throwing it around. You were the one saying "How do you know" to everything. I said nobody knows more than anybody else in the post where I said Let's ignore all facts for a moment. Stop only reading parts of the posts and then taking them out of context.

i was under the impression that Vamp kind of 'apologized' about his actions the other day. how he went over his head, went about things the wrong way

so im beginnign to think 'hey, this dude aint such an ass. it takes a bigger man/woman to apologize'

but here he goes again.. 'Have fun Hitler'

Vamp yo ucan reply to this if you want. but just like Rotting said, i dont even wanna mess with you anymore. i had enough with SFF as well

ARIOCH: your last 2 statements. i'm not sure those made sense. You are against abortion, i am for it (partially). That i understand. now you're first statement "what matters is SHOULD YOUR OPINION BE HELD ABOVE OTHERS AS LAW"

well, maybe i'm reading you incorrectly, but Yes, some opinion IS held above others as law. the opinion that 'abortion is murder' IS the law. only in a few places are abortions allowed, and even then there is a shitload of scrutiny. how about that abortion doctor that was just murdered?

your next statement, "I think no opinion should opress a persons right to think and decide for themselves and their offspring (alive or not)." is this possible? THe opinion that 'abortion is murder' opresses those with the opinion 'it is my body, my choice' and vice versa.

i dont mean to nitpick. i just wasnt sure hwat you were talking about

I second that thing about Vamp.

I was reading his most recent post, and I thought when he previously apologized he really meant it. Until I got to the end and read that Hitler crap. Geez... What an idiot. Do you know how stupid that made you look? The little redemption you earned just went back to nil.

I was considering listening to you again, but fuck that. You're a complete asshole. And I'm not alone when I say that.

And for anyone to say science is bullshit.. OMGWTF BAN PLZ!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rotting Eye
[B]It is a woman's choice. It's her body. She carries the parasite around for nine months. She gives birth. And goes through all of the pain.

Ya and its the infants body your destroying.who is giving the infant a choice?? are you saying the mothers life is more important then an infants??Im against abortion if you cant tell by now.There is only one way i could see an abortion done and thats if the womans life was seriously at risk if she had this baby other then that there really is no excuse.Its easy for you people to say its ok to have an abortion but what if it was you that was being aborted??Wouldnt you want a choice in whether u live or die? ya i think u would

well considering rotting wouldnt have had a brain..... it wouldnt have mattered if he was aborted

im not sure about the others, but when i'm talking i'm only talking about 1st trimester abortions

i dont believe in partial births, although in the case of teenagers (15 minutes away, is where m cousin lives. i live in suburbia and she lives in the 'ghetto suburbia.' many of her friends have become pregnant, 3 i can think of in particular... 14 and 15 years old...) i would make a mandatory adoption. although i know that will never happen, cuz that would infringe on her rights or some shit. but how about school? how bout ur kid? thats what pisses me off

Enough with the What-If's. You can say What-If anything, it doesn't support your argument.

Yes, the mother's life is more important than the fetus'. You can't say 'Aww, but what about the BABY'S choice?' becaue it's not capable of making choices.

I say to you the same thing I've said to everybody else in here: Give evidence, solid factual evidence, to support the banning of abortions. If not, you've got nothing.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nate
[B]You can't put a value on someone's life.. Neither the babie's nor the mother's life is more important per say...

Yes you are disposing of the infant's body, but it's still a part of the mother's. It's a part of her and no one else.

And... damnit, Fluff already beat me to what I was going to say.

I don't know trimesters. Is it like a set thing, like every so many weeks you're in the next trimester, or what?

babies are dum, i think if you dont want it just kill it1!

hehe

lol

:cool:

pregnancy is 9 months, 3 trimesters, 3 months each

the worst thing i heard, was from a buddhist.. now people are always talking about 'buddhism is the only religion i respect' oooh i have some stories

well anyway. i guess theyre supposed to be happy with everything. a girl at 14 has a child. her grandmother says 'ohhh.. now i am a great, great grandmother'

wtf? your proud that your teenage girl has given birth to a bastard child? HOORAY FOR BUDDHISM

oh heres another one 'if you kill an animal and enjoy it, thats wrong. but if you kill an animal becuase you have the will to live, its ok to eat it'

... buddha was against meat eating. period. i love how religions switch shit aroudn to fit what they want

EDIT: tiny, now im not sure about your wording. but for once, i actually, kind of, sorta, agree with you

First trimester- first 3 months
Second- second 3 months
Third- last 3 months

:D

why hasn't he been banned yet?

Oh. Ok, thx

Someone hasn't been doing their job :P

OMG BUDDHISM

wow roting i new u were gay, butt i did not no you looked like it!

lol

I dont think u should call vamprocker an asshole u have to realize this is a touchy subject and some people get pissed off by the thought of abortion.Me im against it ya but the law is the law and im not some radical that will tryen change it.Although i respect the opinions of everyone i dont wanna hear about 1st trimester second trimester crap.Fact of the matter is it is a fetus growing everyday and to me thats where life starts thats life in progress from the very beggining.So your going to use that it doesnt have a brain as an excuse??You need to come up with something better then that.I mean u act like since its inside the mother its like a damn catfish or something.it is a human life form however miniscule it is at the time thats what its destined to become so therefore to me abortion is wrong and thats all ill post on the subject.

Im not being like a dick or anything just trying to point my side out alittle clearer

Yes, it is a touchy subject, and many of us have been able to stay civil. Vamp hasn't.

How about YOU come up with something? Don't bring any religion into it, don't say it has a soul, just fact. As I've said, it's not even a mammal until it has the backbone and lungs at least, and it doesn't have those for 8 weeks.

Nobody who is against abortion has come up with ONE solid reason as to why it should be illegal. Not one.

Tiny- haha, that actually made me laugh.

And the problem with Vamp is that he was not being civil in his arguements. Civility does not include calling names, and telling other people to kill themselves. Yes, people get heated in arguments. People also need to show self-control, otherwise they look ignorant.

The trimester stuff is all fact, so deal with it.

And no, it's not a catfish. It's a parasite. I thought we had already established that.

I dont use religion to state my opinions im not even a religious person.Where in any of my posts did i bring up religion??You want to use science to back up your statements.but the fact is science is rewritten all the time so you cant base shit on that either.And rotting eye a parasite?? lmao thats the best one ive heard yet.I think alot of people would change there mind if they ever seen an abortion first hand like i have.maybe some have but i am pretty sure most havent.

I dont know a single person thats ever witnessed one then come out saying there for it so i think its something u have to experience.

Perfect. I think you're an asshole, too.

And what's wrong with calling people who have abortions "Hitler?" Please, for my own sanity, how the fuck is that more "stupid" than posting pictures of 9/11 and other fucking insensitive things?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hitler want to create his own "super race?" Through killing ones who weren't adequate, the ones who weren't up to standard and the ones he just didn't want to think about and be a part of his world?

Wow, that sounds like abortion, doesn't it? Awesome, d00d.

Way to take offense, Adolf. Do you need a tissue?

As for calling a child in it's mother womb a parasite...

Why don't we call parasites babies, instead? It's just a word, isn't it? Or do you actually consider a human child nothing more than a parisitic blob of flesh?

....
 

Nate said he isn't religious and he thinks science is bullshit. I find that even funnier. I can't believe some people...

It's true that people get heated. I'm keeping out of it because if I got in to it you'd all think I was SFF. :p

This threads degrading pretty fast, as we all knew it would, but if you guys wanna discuss it rationally ill pop back in.

I'm still waiting for them to use fact. Yes, science is re-written, and the second they come up with facts that say they're humans the whole time, or that they have souls, fine. But as of right now, the things that classify something as a mammal include both lungs and a spinal chord. They don't have those until 8 weeks in. That is fact. You don't have facts. None of you. You whine about them being living humans, when they aren't human the whole time. Then you say "How do you know" to everything, when you know less because you're so quick to disregard scientific evidence even though it's based in fact. I'm not saying you shouldn't have your own beliefs, but to make laws based on that is wrong, and it's pushing your beliefs on everybody else. You're just as bad as the people who started the "Jesus Died For You" thread. Probably worse, because they never called anybody murderers, they never compared anybody to mass murdering dictators, and they never wished death on people.

You all still have nothing. You haven't brought up one single fact to support anything you've said. And when someone brings in factual evidence to support the opposite side, you're quick to dismiss it and say "Come on, bring something better than THAT". How about you come up with something better than NOTHING. You can't, and that's why you've been so quick to resort to petty insults. You have no proof, no evidence. Just some pseudo-religious bullshit.

for the first time i stand 100% behind EVERY WORD of what sam just posted.

Beatifully crafted sam, good form.What people dont seem to get is that they ARE pushing their beliefs on others, and not only that, on everyone essentially since they want to make it LAW. I mean come on, if its evil and we're all going to hell then let us, there is no wrong and right if your denied the ablity to make your choice.

hey, cool, that's twice now you've given me props for something I said.

seriously, that was really good. lol

I think that will end this debate.

Re: ....
 

I never said science was bullshit.Why people are putting words in my mouth i havent a clue.I said science is rewritten all the time which is a fact.Im not downing science but science doesnt have all the answers.

nothing will ever end THIS debate.....

...
 

lol I see. ok I'll change it to nothing new will come in to this debate.

nothing new had come to the debate for a while

Petty insults?wtf are you talking about i didnt insult anyone.If something that is growing inside of a womans womb is not life enough for you so be it.its not a matter of fact or fiction but nothing you have stated was a fact either ive pasted this this next part from several scientists who were asked about this very issue and heres what they cant prove:
Science can tell us, with increasing detail, the processes that start with a sperm and ovum and end up with a newborn baby. But it cannot tell us:

Does the fetus have a soul?
When do the products of conception become a person?
Does a zygote have a full set of human rights?
Is an ovum and sperm a person?
Is abortion murder?

So i just showed you sam that not even the scientists can be sure of this so if there are uncertainties in anything then it all comes down to opinion and thats all we can go by.I respect your opinion but i have mine to.Im not even saying mine is right but like i said before what made it clear for me was seeing it done and i didnt like the feeling after,and i dont know anyone who has.

Does the fetus have a soul? You missed the point entirely. DO NOT BRING RELIGION INTO THIS! NO religion. Soul = Religion. How many times to I have to say it? You think there's a soul, fine. I don't care. Your religion doesn't matter just as mine doesn't matter. Religion is personal and has no place in this.


It's still true.

For the last time im not religious ive been to church like 1 time in my life.What i showed you were admitted from scientists that they cant prove.This was not said by religious people it was said by scientists.You want proof i dont have any but neither do you.We could go on about this forever but its something we could never prove eachother wrong on ,so its pointless to go on anymore.

All I'm doing is looking at what has been factually proven (What classifies a living being as a mammal, stages of development of the fetus), and basing my opinion off of that. There is fact backing me, and I've brought it up. You haven't. If you can't, don't bother. If you can, do it.
You brought up a soul, that is religious. Say you aren't religious all you want, I don't care. You brought something religious into it.

interesting. You missed my point. Who out there is volunteering to take care of these kids. It is unfair to kill them? OKay, i havent heard you say ONCE what you would do for them, not once. You want them to live, hoo-fucking-ra for you. just like those other people who tell these women they have to have their kids "they should just raise them". Have you ever seen a kid who wasnt wanted by their parents? Have you seen what kind of life they lead, and what kind of adults many of them turn out to be?

I hope you are one of the first trampled in a food riot, or starve when we are overpopulated in the next couple of decades. We'll see how cruel it is then.

I state again, support the unwanted ones yourself, or SHUT THE FUCK UP. Again, they are irresponsible? Then you prove how responsible you are, genius and take care of them.