So you would have her live with this for the rest of her life? You're condemning your own child to a life of misery. I know you're going to argue that she would be condemning her own child to the same fate as well.... but she wouldn't be. The child would be dead, without ever having formed her first thought. They wouldn't know that they were dead. They were never really alive in the first place.

In essence, you'd be trading your daughters life for your granddaughters. Good one.

I still have yet to hear how these people who are calling abortion "murder" can say that it is okay under extreme circumstances like "rape" or "incest". If a girl gets raped at 13 and becomes pregnant, is not aborting the child still murder? Or is it something else? If it is still murder, then you cannot say that abortion is wrong because it is "murder", because you believe that murder is okay at times. If it is something else, I would like to know what that is. I would like to know how it changes from murder, to not murder simply by the method that the child was conceived. Also, if a pregnant woman accidentally fell down the stairs and killed her child, should she be charged with manslaughter?

I think gothic-chick is the only pro-lifer here who has fully realized her views (although I disagree with them). When I speak of abortion, I don't speak in terms of morality. People are so fucked up in general when it comes to morals that preaching morality is like commanding a rock to turn into a flower. When it comes to things like abortion, I have to resort to utilitarianism. Abortion is wrong, yes. But I think it is the lesser of the two evils. People have been aborting their unwanted pregnancies for EVER, through all sorts of hideous and dangerous methods. And they will continue to do so, whether it is legal or not. But, say you threaten mothers with the death penalty if they abort their children, and so we have more and more women opting to give birth to their unwanted babies. The result:

1. A surplus of unwanted kids up for adoption. They'll be bursting orphanages at the seams.

2. Children living in homes with parents who do not want them. They will grow up abused, unloved, and will probably become criminals.

3. Children living in homes with parents who can't afford them. Suddenly MY taxes go through the roof so that I can help support all these kids. And, after a while, I won't be able to support MY own family!

And that's just for starters. Abortion may be immoral (I am undecided on that issue), but I think forcing unwanted kids to burst into our society may be even worse. In the first case, you are harming a single life. In the second, you are affecting entire communities, if not the whole nation. Now, some of you may say "You can't place a value on a life. You can't say that 2 lives are worth more than 1." Maybe you'd be right. But I do not think that 1 life should be able to exist if it calls for the misery of countless other lives who had no control over the situation to begin with.

I disagree totally.... and I think everything you just said is stupid.

Misery would be your mother making you kill an innocent child. Mothers don't look at their children with resentment. they look at them with gratitude for making them see what life is all about, for making them become better people.They look at them with hope and love. Not condemnation. I can't speak for all rape victims but I can say for myself I don't ever think about it. It was a long time ago. It wasn't my fault I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and I would never even consider wasting even a moment of my life dwelling on it.


what you said about a baby never being alive in the first place.... that's ridiculous! from the moment of conception that baby is alive and growing just not breathing air yet. That baby is alive the very second some bastard rips him from the walls of his selfish mothers womb.

You've never had a child under those circumstances, so you couldn't POSSIBLY know.

Also, I wasn't saying that you should force your child to abort. I'm saying that you should let her decide, and support whatever decision she makes.

Resorting to name calling will make this get out of hand very quickly. Stingy was right, you have thought out your reasons, which is good.

But one thing you need to understand is that most people out there are not as compassionate as you are. i also do not agree with you, but i will say you sound like an amazingly good person. Please dont let your emotions drag you into flaming.

Points taken... thanks!

That wasn't name calling. I'm a master name caller, but I never resort to it. Hopefully, no one here ever has to see that side of me.

I'm in one FUCK of a mood today.

Just a hypothetical question: What would happen if your daughter got pregnant, either accidentally or by being raped, and she told you that she wanted to have an abortion. I mean if she was really really adamant about getting one, she had thought it through in a mature way and came to the decision that her baby would not have a good life growing up this way. Would you still force her to have the child?

-Whoever brought up the fact that the Roe vs. Wade complaintants are now against it, made a very good point.

-I would think the emotional scars of having an abortion (killing your child) would be much tougher to go through life with, than a beautiful child that happens to be the product of a rape. (Don't get me wrong, rape is horrible, but it's not the babies fault.)

-We have waaay too many single moms in this day and age and that's sad. It really does make it tough on them to raise a kid by themself. This is exactly the point where I place the fair share of the blame on the father. It takes two to tango, so if you get her knocked up, you damn well better be there for her and your kid.

-Stingy, I am against abortion in all cases, meaning I, myself, would never support one in any event. I do, however, see the arguement behind it being considered for cases of rape, incest, and mother's health issues. I don't agree with it, and I wouldn't choose it for myself, but in those instances, I do believe it should be up to the mother & father (if applicable). Those are special circumstances.


Basically it boils down to this....

With the countless different forms of birth control (natural family planning like Gothic Chick said, condoms, pills, operations, patches, etc.) out there, there really is no excuse for an unplanned pregnancy other than laziness, stupidity or immaturity. If you are having sex, there is a chance you will end up with an unplanned pregnancy. There are a large number of things you can do to avoid this outcome, however many people are too laxy, stupid, immature to take the neccesary precautions.

That is the real problem. Too many people having sex that are not prepared to deal with the responsibility that goes along with it.

I think you just made history, bwind. A point that neither side of this debate can argue with.