A soldier can kill, the only thing that distance’s it from murder is that he believes his actions are justified, killers in society even serial killers do the same, and they convince themselves that they have a right to take the life of another for what ever sick reason!
… I agree with Vodstock, that although sick and disturbed they are in the larger part sane a truly mentally ill individual would find it very hard to continue in society without his illness being apparent (That’s not to say it does not happen)

… its like a rapist he thinks of a woman as weaker, lower or that she wants it, thus giving himself justification, he is how ever sane he has chosen to warp his mind to allow himself to commit the act and justify it! The same can be said of race hate crime, you tell yourself that the other person is a lower form of life thus making it easier to justify your actions!

I was listening to Howard Stern this morning and he mentioned that David Berkowitz aka. Son of Sam had his own web site. So for any who are interested >>>> http://www.forgivenforlife.com/

you all are getting way too technical... this thread is not about fighting in the military as a soldier.. that's a given.. geez... and yes the most successful killers have been in touch with what they have been doing... but it doesn't seem wrong to them because they are sociopathic/anti-social personality disorder case... this means no conscience or remorse

this doesn't apply to them all... but i'm telling you... anyone who goes out and MURDERS... not kills for their country... is indeed living a DELUSION that what they are doing is correct

you miss the point, they 85-90 % of the time KNOW it is wrong, but do it anyway.

that is fucked up, but in no way delusional.

actually in my abnormal and criminal psychology classes that percentage was nowhere near that high... more like 35%... the vast majority are anti-socical personality disorder

then again, that could be wrong... but it was even posted in the APA's (american psychiatric society) Journal.. which is the foremost trusted up to date reading resource for psychologists and psychiatrists...

the killing with regret and knowledge of it being wrong seems like obsessive compulsive/ritualistic behavior... which is an anxiety problem... if they had a complete grasp on reality, they'd be able to control this...

also.. just because someone knows that killing is wrong, but does it anyway... doesn't make them sane... in fact that to me makes them more problematic and difficult to deal with... however, when they're caught, they seem to be pretty admitting on what they've done..

I guess it would depend to some degree on your school of thought on the subject. I imagine many people would consider sociopathy to be a mental illness. From everything i have read ( and much of my fiance's research), most serial killers are sociopaths, and are unable to empathize, and have no conscience, but would not consider that a disorder. It is a state of mind. It isnt any more insane than believing that an all-powerful force created everything, knows everything, and will send oyu to hell if you masturbate or eat meat on friday, yet Catholacism is one of the world's largest religions.

UH-OH:eek:

actually sociopath isn't considered a mental disorder
and it's not actually labeled as sociopathic anymore.. it's labeled as anti-social personality disorder... because in the DSM IV (what all psychs use to classify and dertermine mental and personality disorders) it is listed as a personality disorder... however, mental retardation is also listed as a personality disorder...

but i mean you have to look at what causes this kind of personality... it's something deep and almost unchangable that is mostly seen in males... borderline personality disorder is with females... but with most modern psychology we use behavioristic and cognitive theories of treatment.. which means we're stearing away from the deep collective unconcious and looking to the problematic behavior as the problem and symptom... the goal is to make that conscious behavior, unconscious...

but i still think, anybody who murders... whether it be because they enjoy it and are completely apathetic.. or if they don't want to do it and are being guided by some voice in their head .. which would in many cases be classified as hallucinations.. depending on the circumstances... or if you're looking at a revenge case or hatred of a specific group... it all goes back to killing which is obviously one of the most wrong things you can do...

and i know this is a hollywood movie, but i think hannibal is a good example of those that are aware of reality and what they are doing... however, if you really watch the character, he builds to outbursts ... which would be likely caused by unnoticed impulses... in the books it talks about his power of suggestion which is a need to be controlling... there are obviously many needs that can only be fulfilled by his brutal actions which is the same with many serial killers

this is an interesting conversation.. :)