how wrong you are. sorry to act like i know it all, ubt hey! when ya do, ya do. it's true constantine wasn't born a christian. ut he didn't convert because of his mother at all. he converted after he had a dream on a eve of a major battle, in which he stood little hope of winning. but he had a dream where if he was to paint a cross on his soldeirs sheilds. victory would be his. so he did. and it was. then he converted. i know you will dismiss this, cause a man converting the most powerful empire the world has ever seen, because of a dream/ vision doesn't sound as exciting as a man converting cause he was crazy and his mummy made him do it, to a atheist :)

and you don't?

well you need to renew your sources.

you're still wrong, you see the thing is god doesn't go around giving us meassages in fortune cookies. so scenario 2. is redundant really isn't it?

ya , you're right in hell, we'll be able to roam free far and wide doing what we want when we want. *rolls eyes*

it wasn't meant to be a argument. i was stating a fact that i know is right.

how do you know we wouldn't be able to change it?

O you're so right, there as never been any christian scientist.
and two if you're talking about me saying that the big bang is a myth well it is. there is no proof of it, thats why its called a theory. and of course there is no absolute evidence of god. thats why its called "faith". so ya ido know the diff between truth and myth. but do you know the diff between the meaning of fact and theory?

LOL
How can you say "I used to be Christian.. for six months. Mainly, I just wanted a chance to figure out"? Did you say, " i'm going to be christian today to see what its like"? LOL it takes more than that to be a christian, jew, muslim or hindu. or what ever. faith is a lot more than just saying that you're one. more than going to church, or reading a bible

ShUt Up

well well mister gay-0-washer and his power ranger bangle/wrist bands

Go away. Please.

Well, MisterX just basically came back and spoke as if everything we had discussed didn't really happen. I gave him the definition of scientific "Theory", and I already said that, to a scientist, "Theory" is about as close to fact as you can get, without actually being a fact or a law. Scientific theories, if you'll go back to the definitions I provided (from textbooks and dictionaries, not my head) are hypotheses that have been extensively tested and relied upon with high degrees of confidence. It is more than a mere "guess", which you insist on using "theory" to mean. The layman uses the word "theory" in the same way he uses "guess". But that is not the way I am using it.

As far as the Big Bang goes, there is a LOT of evidence to support the theory ... which is why it is a scientific theory and not just a guess. One of the simplest bits of evidence is the fact that the matter we observe in space is moving away from us. By simple reasoning if you play the universe in reverse, the matter would move toward us, and ultimately converge at a common point. Something sent this matter hurtling outward ... this something we refer to as the Big Bang.

And how is it that you know for a fact that the moon was not formed by an object striking the Earth while it was in it's magma state? Sure, my source is five years old (and I'm not about to argue that that is not a significant amount of time for a scientific document to be outdated), but I listen to and read the news on a daily basis. I have yet to hear the announcement: "Astronomers have discovered the truth behind the formation of the moon." You know FOR A FACT that my source was wrong. So, how? Let's see if you really know the difference between fact and theory.

As far as us not being able to change our destiny because God already knows our future ... well, that's simple. Of course, we're talking about God, here, and I don't claim to understand the nature of something that doesn't exist, but I am working from a few assumptions about God's knowledge: 1) It is divine and perfect. What God knows to happen, WILL happen. It will not change. 2) If God told us what will happen, it will still not change. And I know God doesn't leave messages for us in fortune cookies. That was an hypothetical situation employed to show how we do not control our own fates (no free will). This idea is more dramatically shown in the case where "what if we KNOW our fate?" It doesn't matter. Still can't change it. Whether or know your fate or not does not change the idea that you cannot choose your own destiny. If you COULD change it, then that would mean that a) God's knowledge is not perfect. He didn't really know what your fate was to begin with, or b) he lied to you when he told you what your future held. But I was assuming that his knowledge IS perfect, and that he never lies.

i take my hat off and cheesy walls balls to you sir you really are the king of the long post

LOL! Not Walls Balls again!!!

Okay ... This sentence all by itself is my cue to stop debating with you. Anyone who has any education worth its salt never says that they know it all. Socrates said that the only reason the oracle stated he was the wisest man was because he knew that he knew nothing ... whereas everyone else thought they knew everything. All this does is show me that you are too ignorant to even realize that you are ignorant (just like we ALL are ignorant, to a certain extent.) You've already demonstrated that you're the type of guy who will be shown evidence that contradicts what he currently believed, and is too arrogant to change his belief in light of the evidence (I am referring to the "Moon" reference I posted.) You merely dismissed the evidence as "wrong", to keep from feeling/sounding stupid. When in actuality, by doing this, you made yourself look more stupid than you would have had you admitted to receiving knowledge that you did not previously have. I admit when I am wrong, and am smart enough to reevaluate what I previously thought to be true when I receive new information. As soon as you give me the sources that you say prove elephants possess a conscious awareness (not instinct) of their own mortality, then I will concede the point to you and rethink my ideas. That is, if the source is both reliable and valid (as in: don't post some crap from website written by an unknown elephant fan who has no educated knowledge on the fundamentals of Biology.) Only then will I continue with this with you. Otherwise, I know from the sentence in your above quote that anything I say will go in one ear and out the other, valid and reasonable, or not. If it doesn't jive with what you believe, you won't listen to or consider it. You'll just pretend you never heard it, and keep on saying the same thing over and over. It's pointless to continue.

Right on man. I like you.

You're pretty cool yourself. :)

well lets see. the way you spoke about theformation of themoon it indicated you DID know how it formed. and lets see.....what else o yes, you claim god doesnt excist, yet you then go on to talk about gods knowledge. and no you haven't explained how by someone knowing what someone isgoingto do is taking away there free will to do what ever they chose to do. "if god told us wha twill happen"? wtf do you mean? why all the if's? the thing is god hasn't told us whats going to happen. and if he did HOW do you know we can't change it? you talk in absolutes about a subject where there can be no absolutes. you're trying to make the rules or laws up as you go along! You say that " If you COULD change it, then that would mean that a) God's knowledge is not perfect. He didn't really know what your fate was to begin with, or b) he lied to you when he told you what your future held. " you see, he didn't tell me what my future held so again your argyment is redundant. i'm sure you're used to that aren't you? all you need to do is to stop talking about hypothetical's as if they were fact. you contradict yourself so many time it has stopped being funny

I've read your guy's argument, and here's what it sounds like you're saying:

We have no free will at all. God is making me type this right now, and there is nothing I can do to change anything God says will happen because it's my destiny or whatever and he's perfect so It is, how they say, his way or the highway.

So if we have no free will, then why isnt everyone Christian? Why didnt God just MAKE everyone believe in him? Did he pick and choose people like me and Stingy and Ege to burn in hell for all eternity, because we dont believe in him? Seems like a pretty fucked up God. Not so forgiving after all.

ok. now with the quote by Socrates. just because someone says something catchie, doesn't make it true. and as far as the moon goes. if the earth was hit by a object big enough and hard enough to displace a mass as big as the moon it would have destroyed it. and lets say it didn't destroy it. if the earth was hit by a object hard enough to make a mass as big as that break the gravitaional pull of the earth. the earth would not be able to hold it in place. the moon would totaly escape the earths pull. its just simple reasoning. but most atheist are too retarded, to think for themselves, you sit there and absorb anything that would try and discredit the excistance of god like the blind sheep you are. same with the elephants. i'm still looking for that proof, because it was a number of years since i read about it. But in the mean time think about it. do you think animals with as much intelligence as a elephant or dolphin etc. don't know they will die? and not just from a accident or from a predator? come on you stupid atheist sheep think for yourself for once. and speaking of making claims with out any proof. how do you know god doesnt excist? like you claimed in your post? o and i don't see you replying to my discrediting of you on the subject of the constatine matter. lol@ your claims. get your facts right. now you're the one who can be called ignorant. since you believe you are the only one to state claims, asumptions, theories, stories and myths as fact. and by the way trying to insult my intelligence is just a sign that you are truely beaten in this debate. awww insults the last resort of a beaten man.

WTF. We're the sheep? I think I remember making a conscious desicion to go AWAY from the pack with becoming an atheist.

Here ya go- Okay. We were wrong on the Constantine thing. Whatever. I accept that. In no way does that prove that there is a God.

Also, you just called us stupid, retarted and sheep, then yelled at us for trying to insult your intelligence. STFU

who said you have no freewill? maybe some people are just too stupid to understand what the meaning of a all knowing god means

thats all that needs to be said.

did stingy go out and test one of these "theories" himself? i bet not. he read them from a book, so yes that makes him as a big a sheep as any christian, even more so as christians are told what god or jesus did. but we also interpit what that means ourselfs. and i don't see any caps?

WTF did you just say? Learn some basic grammer, then post.

did i say YOU was too stupid? no i didn't . are you saying everyone in theworld is smart enough to know whata all knowing god is? surely not. it isn't my fault when i make a general observation that you attribute those observations to yourself is it?

BTW its grammar not grammer. learn to spell before you worry about other peoples education

Yes actually it is your fault. I never said anything about Christians being stupid, retarted, or sheep for believing in God. Just dont resort to name-calling and insults. It just makes you sound immature.

did i say you? are you paranoid as well as dyslexic?

Here we go again. Can't we just talk about stuff without you insulting me?

yes, i can. can you?

Well since I have been, I'll go ahead and say yes I can.

Well since I have been, I'll go ahead and say yes I can.

You're so cool. You're my idol now. You rock.

You are a fine one to be talking about spelling skills....

http://dictionary.reference.com/

Here is a hint use it.

And while you are at it go back and study capitalization and punctuation skills. ;)

lol ole great krapinhand, o great man of the wispy hair. do you say that grammar is spelled grammer too ? if so maybe you need to go to that link yourself. :)

hey misterx shut the fuck up

as if. my dimwitted pokemon lovin friend

first off pokemon and i mean this is one of the greatest if not the greatesa rpg of all time