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Giganticface 06-07-2014 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metternich1815 (Post 971230)
A Clockwork Orange- ... Honestly, I am surprised it was not considered a horror film. ...

That's what I said when we did the 100 Years of Horror. :) I didn't get any bites. :/

Giganticface 06-07-2014 01:45 PM

I guess I'll (sorta reluctantly) enter the top 100 discussion. Based on some of the past comments, I'm not sure this is the right thread for me. I have a feeling I'm not going enjoy every minute of it. :)

As a head's up, you probably won't ever hear me arguing for a film based on any technical aspect of its makeup, and honestly I don't put a lot of value on those qualities. If the movie makes me think, or makes me feel something, it's on my radar. I won't discredit a film for having a few warts. Flaws are what makes things unique. Obviously I'm not going to praise a film for being a pile of crap, but you won't hear me disqualifying a film because of one element that doesn't meet my particular definition of "good." Like saying Star Wars has too simple a story (it's called melodrama... ever read Shakespere?), or Apocalypse Now feels unresolved (maybe that's... intentional?). My tastes are naturally a bit off-the-beaten-path, so I don't expect everyone (or anyone?) to agree with me, but I do have a strong allergic reaction to the status quo.

So, having said that, here's my next 5. (BTW, I really like the idea roshiq. And, better late than never, "Get better soon, V!!"

Since A Clockwork Orange probably doesn't need my help, I'll hold my vote on that one, but it deserves it. Too sci-fi for many to make the best Horror list (although I disagree), and IMO too horrific to be on the non-horror list.

Since it looks like Once Upon a Time in the West might make it, I'll hold my vote on a different Sergio Leone classic. I chose For a Fistful of Dollars in my top 20, and I prefer the Man with No Name trilogy over the Once...in the West epic, but I would be happy to back For a Few Dollars More or, better yet, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly since it doesn't look like Fistful will get the votes. These films are likely to be poo-pooed by some -- but then again, so are the Bava, Argento and Fulci classics by many critics. They are truly iconic, important and visually beautiful films. Ennio Morricone gave us the score that we now associate with "Westerns." And perhaps most importantly, they essentially invented the anti-hero. All of a sudden John Wayne was a goodie-two-shoes, and no longer the coolest guy on the block. Cinema has never been the same since.

The actual five outside my 20 that I'll back are:

1. Black Swan -- Although I truly consider this a horror film, Arnofsky and Co. did a great job marketing this as non-horror so it would get attention at the Oscars -- so much so that even horror fans believe it. A modern masterpiece in psychological storytelling. Heartbreaking and distressing.

2. Monty Python & The Holy Grail -- No argument is really necessary. If you love it, you love it, and if you don't, you never will. But for a comedy, this film has the most amazingly detailed sets and costumes, and feels extremely gritty for being off-the-wall British slapstick. This film has no peers.

3. The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover -- This film breaks too many rules for most folks, and I wouldn't want to watch it with my mom. But every time I do watch it, I'm left gut-punched for a couple days.

4. The Deer Hunter -- Incredible cast, moving, heartbreaking, epic. A truly impactful drama that is oh so human.

5. Fargo -- I would be fine with any number of Coen Brothers films, but one of them really needs to make the list. I chose O Brother, Where Art Thou?, but that film is a bit niche for a broad range of voters. Fargo has been cherished by quite a few, including myself, and has an endless number of memorable moments. The Coen Bros know how to define and develop unique, but still believable, characters. I personally think The Big Lebowski is a better example of that, but Fargo is probably more respected in a general sense, and a good choice if the Bros only get one.

Kandarian Demon 06-07-2014 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giganticface (Post 971237)
5. Fargo -- I would be fine with any number of Coen Brothers films, but one of them really needs to make the list. I chose O Brother, Where Art Thou?, but that film is a bit niche for a broad range of voters.

Actually I very nearly picked O Brother, Where Art Thou as one of my 5 movies... it's one of the most deserving ones on the master list, in my opinion. But I thought like you, that there would be no point because no one else would pick it. I'd be willing to change my 5 movie list, if you want to back it too...

Straker 06-07-2014 03:12 PM

Out of the movies that didn't make my top 20, I'll back:

A Christmas Carol (Providing its the one staring Alastair Sim and not some god awful modern remake I haven't yet had the misfortune to watch).
The Grapes of Wrath
Rashomon

There are a few others I'd vote for, but for now I'll just wait and see what happens. There's so much crap with multiple votes, I'd rather back movies that I might not necessarily have in my own top 100 that are a ton better than some of the other junk in the running.

Also, someone get behind The Apartment already.... And what's with 12 Monkey's getting more support than Brazil. Surely if you are going to have a Terry Gilliam movie in the top 100 it has to be Brazil. :shocked:

Giganticface 06-07-2014 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon (Post 971240)
Actually I very nearly picked O Brother, Where Art Thou as one of my 5 movies... it's one of the most deserving ones on the master list, in my opinion. But I thought like you, that there would be no point because no one else would pick it. I'd be willing to change my 5 movie list, if you want to back it too...

Awesome! I already have it submitted in my top 20, so I think at this "5 more" point I can't back it. Not sure where this process is all going, but at any point I would gladly debate its merits for being in the list, stronger than I would for Fargo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straker (Post 971243)
And what's with 12 Monkey's getting more support than Brazil. Surely if you are going to have a Terry Gilliam movie in the top 100 it has to be Brazil. :shocked:

They're both amazingly creative films. I came very close to putting Brazil on my next 5, but didn't want to triple-up on Terry Gilliam, since I thought Holy Grail was a must-have. I personally prefer 12 Monkeys to Brazil, but wouldn't have any issue with Brazil taking its place. (For whoever's tracking, that statement doesn't constitute a vote change.)

Kandarian Demon 06-07-2014 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giganticface (Post 971249)
Awesome! I already have it submitted in my top 20, so I think at this "5 more" point I can't back it. Not sure where this process is all going, but at any point I would gladly debate its merits for being in the list, stronger than I would for Fargo.

I just found out I can't edit my older posts, I would have switched Superman for O Brother, Where Art Thou... hopefully this post won't drown, or maybe someone with "special powers" will help us ::big grin::

metternich1815 06-07-2014 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon (Post 971252)
I just found out I can't edit my older posts, I would have switched Superman for O Brother, Where Art Thou... hopefully this post won't drown, or maybe someone with "special powers" will help us ::big grin::

I think there was some issue with people going back and editing their posts, thus causing a number of issues. Or something like that, so the settings were changed so that people could only edit their post for a certain timeframe after posting. I believe it is thirty minutes. I found the thread on this and other changes made last year http://www.horror.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63919

neverending 06-07-2014 05:54 PM

Seeing how this is all just debate, it hardly makes a difference anyway.

Sculpt 06-07-2014 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metternich1815 (Post 971154)
Here is my list:

Twelve Monkeys- An excellent, mind-bending film with an excellent story and a solid cast. the film contains an interesting exploration of the topic of fate. Further, I love how the line between fiction and reality is unclear. Through most of the movie you are not sure if this is real or the delusions of a maniac.

The Terminator- A classic science fiction film from the 1980s. I honestly did not include it on my list because I was not sure if it was horror. The film has elements of romance, horror, science fiction, and action. Definitely deserving of a place.

Blade Runner- A dark science fiction story based on a work by noted science fiction author Phillip K. Dick. If I recall correctly, this was the only film based on his works that he had seen and he loved it. There were some excellent performances particularly by Harrison Ford and the atmosphere was beautiful. Also, there was some amazing special effects in the film that really brought the world created by Dick alive.

GoodFellas- A quintessential gangster movie. Casino has always been my personal favorite of the Scorsese gangster films, but I definitely see why this film is so loved. Some terrific performances by all involved. It is fascinating to watch the evolution of the main character played by Ray Liotta. This film really helps to illuminate organized crime and why people decide to go into this line of "work".

12 Angry Men- Sadly, I have yet to see this film, but from what I know, it is an absolutely terrific film. For this reason, I will also support it in this list.

(If you can't tell I am a big science fiction lover)

Now, for films that were in my list, but I would like to bring special attention to.

Duck Soup- An absolute classic of comedy. This film is perhaps the best of the Marx Brothers films. It is particularly noteworthy as it is a criticism of dictatorship and war. This is interesting because this is a few years before the launch of the second World War. As with other films by the Marx Brothers, the film was definitely progressive and did things that were questionable for film in the 1930s. A worthy inclusion on this list.

Back to the Future- This film is a quintessential 80s movie. The plot does not entirely make sense and has logical problems, but that is the point. It is clearly referencing the crazy science fiction films of the 1950s and, to top it off, that is the decade they travel back to. The film also contains some excellent performances by Chrsitpher Lloyd as Doc Brown and Michael J. Fox as Martin McFly. Some may say it is not great enough to be included, but I have to disagree. It may not belong in the top 20, but it definitely belongs on the list, in my opinion.

Vertigo- This is perhaps Hitchcock's best non-horror film. It is fascinating to see the main character played by Jimmy Stewart go through the film. You really feel for his character. The film really draws one in and you are on the edge of your seat until the very end. The ending alone is enough for inclusion. Sadly, the film was a failure in its own day, which is sad because it really is an excellent picture.

Dumbo- I figured this list should have at least one Disney movie. It was difficult to choose one, but this is the one I went with (Snow White and the Seven Dwarves would have been a good choice as well). The film had an interesting storyline which centered around an elephant that was teased because his ears were larger than normal. The film discretely was a criticism of racism. As with racism, Dumbo was picked on purely for looking different. This message is even more clear with the crow scene (and one was even named Jim Crow!). That scene is considered one of the first that did not portray a stereotype of African Americans. Originally the film was to be the cover of Time Magazine, but Pearl Harbor happened, preventing this from ever taking place. Definitely a worthy film for inclusion.

Titanic- I know many will disagree with me, but, other than the clichéd romance, this really is an amazing film. I love Cameron's direction, it really draws one in. Even though the romance is a little unoriginal, there is something about it that makes it more interesting than it should be. The film is also an incredibly accurate vision of sailing and sinking of that great ocean liner. In fact, it is probably the most accurate vision. Throughout the film, there are many references to the time its set, which make it appear more realistic. On that note, the film is visually stunning and contains some of the best historical costumes of a period piece, in my opinion. The music that accompanies the film is absolutely beautiful as well. It complements the film perfectly. A year or two ago they re-released the film in 3-D and, I have to say, that was some of the best 3-D I have ever seen. Sorry, for the long defense on this one, it is just this film receives more hate than I think it should, so I wanted to preemptively protect it.

12 & 1/2 Monkeys - That's what I've always called the film (to be funny). I really liked the film. Very unusual story; and the music effectively kept me feeling as uncomfortable as the puzzling story and Willis's servitude. The story is resolved at the end, but though the disorientation is intended, it wearies a little.
Terminator - loved it, excellent sc-fi and exciting. Only x from me is although warning against AI is fine, it lacks an important message.

Blade Runner- loved it, excellent sc-fi. Slight lack of heart for me.

I enjoyed all the films in your list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metternich1815 (Post 971230)
Not a bad list, here are my specific thoughts on the films:

Dances with Wolves- I have not seen enough nor do I know enough about Dances with Wolves to have an informed opinion. I own it, perhaps I should watch it.

Pulp Fiction- I definitely agree on this one. It is a classic with some excellent performances and equally excellent directing. One of Tarantino's best, in my opinion.

A Clockwork Orange- I agree with everything said on this film. Honestly, I am surprised it was not considered a horror film. In any case, this film definitely deserves inclusion on this list.

Fight Club- I have not seen this film myself, so I cannot really comment much on the film, but I have heard many good things about it and I am sure it would be a worthy inclusion on the list.

The Lion King- I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I have never really liked this film. There are many Disney films that I loved when I was younger, but this is one I could never really get into to.

Ah, you're lucky, my friend. You'll love Dances With Wolves. A white man, discouraged with the Western life and cold Civil War, volunteers to be stationed alone in S. Dakota. Beautiful big sky SD scenery. Meets native tribe. I don't want to give anything else away. Lovely film.

Wow, you haven't seen Fight Club. You have another huge treat. It's intense philosophy. Knowing your tastes, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon (Post 971233)
Ok, here's the 5 movies I've chosen from the master list that was not in my personal list:

A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
I actually considered this movie for my own list, and very nearly included it, so this is a movie I will definitely back :-)

BACK TO THE FUTURE II
The first movie was in my list, and actually I love all 3 of them, so... I think they're all very creative movies that can be enjoyed by all ages.

LABYRINTH
Assuming that this is the one with David Bowie and not another movie of the same name, this is one that could have been in my top 30. I know a lot of people think it's horrible, but I think it's a great fantasy movie, and again... when I don't watch horror, I tend to like more family oriented movies.

SCHINDLERS LIST
I remember when I first saw this movie, the person who wanted me to see it told me that it was a movie that everyone should watch at least once, but that most people wouldn't want to watch more than once. It's certainly a tough movie to get through, it doesn't exactly make you feel good... but it makes you think, and it is extremely well done in every way.

SUPERMAN
If this is the classic 80s movie, and not some remake, then I will definitely back it. I've watched it many times over the years, and although I will admit that it probably hasn't aged too well, I still think it's a great movie, and it was very well done for it's time.

Loved Superman. It's a warm lovely film. It has aged, but I think now that's become part of it's charm.

Don't know any other film named "labyrinth"... you're probably talking about Pan Labyrinth? I'll see Labyrinth based on your recommendation. I saw clips, and I wasn't big on those types of musicals at the time.

Sculpt 06-07-2014 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giganticface (Post 971237)
I guess I'll (sorta reluctantly) enter the top 100 discussion. Based on some of the past comments, I'm not sure this is the right thread for me. I have a feeling I'm not going enjoy every minute of it. :)

As a head's up, you probably won't ever hear me arguing for a film based on any technical aspect of its makeup, and honestly I don't put a lot of value on those qualities. If the movie makes me think, or makes me feel something, it's on my radar. I won't discredit a film for having a few warts. Flaws are what makes things unique. Obviously I'm not going to praise a film for being a pile of crap, but you won't hear me disqualifying a film because of one element that doesn't meet my particular definition of "good." Like saying Star Wars has too simple a story (it's called melodrama... ever read Shakespere?), or Apocalypse Now feels unresolved (maybe that's... intentional?). My tastes are naturally a bit off-the-beaten-path, so I don't expect everyone (or anyone?) to agree with me, but I do have a strong allergic reaction to the status quo.

So, having said that, here's my next 5. (BTW, I really like the idea roshiq. And, better late than never, "Get better soon, V!!"

Since A Clockwork Orange probably doesn't need my help, I'll hold my vote on that one, but it deserves it. Too sci-fi for many to make the best Horror list (although I disagree), and IMO too horrific to be on the non-horror list.

Since it looks like Once Upon a Time in the West might make it, I'll hold my vote on a different Sergio Leone classic. I chose For a Fistful of Dollars in my top 20, and I prefer the Man with No Name trilogy over the Once...in the West epic, but I would be happy to back For a Few Dollars More or, better yet, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly since it doesn't look like Fistful will get the votes. These films are likely to be poo-pooed by some -- but then again, so are the Bava, Argento and Fulci classics by many critics. They are truly iconic, important and visually beautiful films. Ennio Morricone gave us the score that we now associate with "Westerns." And perhaps most importantly, they essentially invented the anti-hero. All of a sudden John Wayne was a goodie-two-shoes, and no longer the coolest guy on the block. Cinema has never been the same since.

The actual five outside my 20 that I'll back are:

1. Black Swan -- Although I truly consider this a horror film, Arnofsky and Co. did a great job marketing this as non-horror so it would get attention at the Oscars -- so much so that even horror fans believe it. A modern masterpiece in psychological storytelling. Heartbreaking and distressing.

2. Monty Python & The Holy Grail -- No argument is really necessary. If you love it, you love it, and if you don't, you never will. But for a comedy, this film has the most amazingly detailed sets and costumes, and feels extremely gritty for being off-the-wall British slapstick. This film has no peers.

3. The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover -- This film breaks too many rules for most folks, and I wouldn't want to watch it with my mom. But every time I do watch it, I'm left gut-punched for a couple days.

4. The Deer Hunter -- Incredible cast, moving, heartbreaking, epic. A truly impactful drama that is oh so human.

5. Fargo -- I would be fine with any number of Coen Brothers films, but one of them really needs to make the list. I chose O Brother, Where Art Thou?, but that film is a bit niche for a broad range of voters. Fargo has been cherished by quite a few, including myself, and has an endless number of memorable moments. The Coen Bros know how to define and develop unique, but still believable, characters. I personally think The Big Lebowski is a better example of that, but Fargo is probably more respected in a general sense, and a good choice if the Bros only get one.

You make an excellent point that what some hold as a flaw is not only what was intended by the director, but also what others see as a key success.

Let me say upfront, I know the Apocalypse Now ending is "meant" to be unresolved. (War, man's heart, life, Kutz's Society... it can be viewed as absurd, cold and hopelessly unresolvable.) The film ending is famously unresolved and has been debated at length. I can easily accept the unresolve is meant to be, the point, etc. The thing is, many ask, "does it work?" Some say 'no', and some say 'yes'. I know it works in many aspects. But in picking the best films of all-time, the resolution is no small thing. To me the ending isn't it's crowing achievement, but rather an ending that only partly works. I wouldn't vote against it. It's just flawed to me.

Deer Hunter is an excellent and moving film. It was on my Plus20 list.

Black Swan - My expectations outstretched the film. Although it's well done, it was a bit old hat for me (for me, obviously not a common plot). I didn't feel connected and empathetic to Portman's character as I would have liked. And the ending wasn't as satisfying as I hoped.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon (Post 971240)
Actually I very nearly picked O Brother, Where Art Thou as one of my 5 movies... it's one of the most deserving ones on the master list, in my opinion. But I thought like you, that there would be no point because no one else would pick it. I'd be willing to change my 5 movie list, if you want to back it too...

I have to check out O Brother. I've heard very good reviews from folks I really respect.

neverending 06-07-2014 09:24 PM

No, when someone refers to the film Labyrinth, they're not referring to Pan's Labyrinth. They're talking about Jennifer Connelly's film debut, a fun fantasy musical adventure featuring the Muppets (but not the ones you usually see) and David Bowie.

It's an enjoyable romp, but definitely not one of the 100 best films ever made.

Sculpt 06-07-2014 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon (Post 971233)
LABYRINTH
Assuming that this is the one with David Bowie and not another movie of the same name, this is one that could have been in my top 30. I know a lot of people think it's horrible, but I think it's a great fantasy movie, and again... when I don't watch horror, I tend to like more family oriented movies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sculpt (Post 971264)
Don't know any other film named "labyrinth"... you're probably talking about Pan Labyrinth? I'll see Labyrinth based on your recommendation. I saw clips, and I wasn't big on those types of musicals at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverending (Post 971270)
No, when someone refers to the film Labyrinth, they're not referring to Pan's Labyrinth. They're talking about Jennifer Connelly's film debut, a fun fantasy musical adventure featuring the Muppets (but not the ones you usually see) and David Bowie.

It's an enjoyable romp, but definitely not one of the 100 best films ever made.

I was speaking to Kan's referencing another film named "Labyrinth" that isn't the David Bowie Labyrinth. I didn't think there was another film named "Labyrinth", so I'm guessing the second Labyrinth in her mind is Pan's Labyrinth. There was a 2012 TV miniseries called Labyrinth with John Hurt.

neverending 06-07-2014 10:07 PM

I don't believe she was saying there was another film named Labyrinth (though there is), just saying she was assuming the person didn't mean some other non-specified film. It's a fine point not worth niggling over, but I am anyway. ::smile::

_____V_____ 06-07-2014 10:50 PM

My mistake - A Clockwork Orange has plenty of horror elements and disturbing scenes, and it already finds representation in a few of our other lists.

The last HDC member to have submitted a list, sfear, included it in his 20 and I couldn't proof-read it before adding his choices to the Master List.

Sent him a PM to send in a replacement. Said film stands removed.

roshiq 06-07-2014 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straker (Post 971153)
I guess you were the other person who voted for 12 Angry Men then. ::cool::

Ditto!::smile::

Quote:

Originally Posted by metternich1815 (Post 971154)
Here is my list:

Twelve Monkeys

The Terminator

Blade Runner

Love all of them but not so convince about The Terminator for the final list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metternich1815 (Post 971154)

Now, for films that were in my list, but I would like to bring special attention to.
Duck Soup
Back to the Future
Vertigo
Dumbo
Titanic

Haven't seen Duck Soup & Dumbo, so no comments about them. And from the rest...again, love them but I'd only like to see Vertigo making into the final list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sculpt (Post 971205)
There's a lot from the Master List I think are worthy. Here's 5 that were in my "more than 20 list" that I like a lot:

Dances With Wolves
Pulp Fiction - Really liked it a lot. But not entirely sure why. There's no subject matter of importance.
The Lion King

Haven't seen Dances with Wolves. Definitely enjoyed it but still not so much convinced about Pulp Fiction for a Top 100 list, not a great fan of it. As you said, I think there's a decent number of viewers out there who still "not entirely sure why" they liked it so much!::confused::

Lion King is undoubtedly a lovely, great film but I think there are better films animated films to get join in the final bunch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon (Post 971233)
Ok, here's the 5 movies I've chosen from the master list that was not in my personal list:

A CLOCKWORK ORANGE
BACK TO THE FUTURE II
LABYRINTH
SCHINDLERS LIST
SUPERMAN
.

I've already admitted my full support for Clockwork & Shindler's List. Haven't seen Labyrinth. BTTF..more suitable for greatest films of 80s than a list for all time greatest, IMO! I do LOVE Superman...but my opinion is same like BTTF, may be I'd like to keep it for a list of 'Best Superhero Movies' only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giganticface (Post 971237)
The actual five outside my 20 that I'll back are:

1. Black Swan

2. Monty Python & The Holy Grail
3. The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover
4. The Deer Hunter
5. Fargo

YES for The Cook, The Thief & The Deer Hunter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straker (Post 971243)
Out of the movies that didn't make my top 20, I'll back:

A Christmas Carol (Providing its the one staring Alastair Sim and not some god awful modern remake I haven't yet had the misfortune to watch).
The Grapes of Wrath
Rashomon

.... And what's with 12 Monkey's getting more support than Brazil. Surely if you are going to have a Terry Gilliam movie in the top 100 it has to be Brazil. :shocked:

Haven't seen Grapes but already voted for Rashomon. And ditto about BRAZIL, I won't mind to see it in the top 100.

roshiq 06-07-2014 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _____V_____ (Post 971274)
My mistake - A Clockwork Orange has plenty of horror elements and disturbing scenes, and it already finds representation in a few of our other lists.

The last HDC member to have submitted a list, sfear, included it in his 20 and I couldn't proof-read it before adding his choices to the Master List.

Sent him a PM to send in a replacement. Said film stands removed.

HA-HA-HA! The only film that generated most number of supports in last few discussions for last 2 days! But yeah...you have a valid point, can't argue about that.

Kandarian Demon 06-08-2014 06:10 AM

Neverending is correct - I have no idea if there are any other movies called Labyrinth, but there could have been. It's not a particularly unique sounding title, and there was no year of release, so... just wanted to make sure it WAS the movie I was thinking of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverending (Post 971270)
It's an enjoyable romp, but definitely not one of the 100 best films ever made.

Honestly, it probably isn't - even if it is a personal favourite of mine. The truth is that there are not a lot of obvious choices for me on the master list.

Sculpt 06-08-2014 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _____V_____ (Post 971274)
My mistake - A Clockwork Orange has plenty of horror elements and disturbing scenes, and it already finds representation in a few of our other lists.

The last HDC member to have submitted a list, sfear, included it in his 20 and I couldn't proof-read it before adding his choices to the Master List.

Sent him a PM to send in a replacement. Said film stands removed.

FYI - I just checked our 100 Years of Horror, the 1970 list (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...7&postcount=22) (A Clockwork Orange is 1971), and Clockwork is not in the 1970's list. It's also not in the 1970's Honorable Mentions (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...8&postcount=38). Being it's one of the best films of all-time (surely one of best in 70's), we obviously must have disallowed it -- said it wasn't a Horror film. And so, if we/HDC disallowed it as a Horror film, you think we should allow it in non-horror, and not let drop through the cracks?

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshiq (Post 971279)
Love all of them but not so convince about The Terminator for the final list.

Haven't seen Duck Soup & Dumbo, so no comments about them. And from the rest...again, love them but I'd only like to see Vertigo making into the final list.

Haven't seen Dances with Wolves. Definitely enjoyed it but still not so much convinced about Pulp Fiction for a Top 100 list, not a great fan of it. As you said, I think there's a decent number of viewers out there who still "not entirely sure why" they liked it so much!::confused::

Lion King is undoubtedly a lovely, great film but I think there are better films animated films to get join in the final bunch.

I've already admitted my full support for Clockwork & Shindler's List. Haven't seen Labyrinth. BTTF..more suitable for greatest films of 80s than a list for all time greatest, IMO! I do LOVE Superman...but my opinion is same like BTTF, may be I'd like to keep it for a list of 'Best Superhero Movies' only.

YES for The Cook, The Thief & The Deer Hunter.

Haven't seen Grapes but already voted for Rashomon. And ditto about BRAZIL, I won't mind to see it in the top 100.

Grapes of Wrath is a glaring hole in my knowledge of films. I have to see it. Duck Soup is a lot of fun. There are many brilliant scenes of humor (the non-mirror is fantastic). Dances with Wolves is like a new world.

Speaking of Loin King, makes me wonder what the best animated films of all-time are. Do you think people discount films that are animated when considering the best films all-time?

Kandarian Demon 06-08-2014 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sculpt (Post 971315)
Grapes of Wrath is a glaring hole in my knowledge of films. I have to see it.

I'm curious about that one too, now. I've googled the book and the film, and none of them seems to be available in my country, so no wonder I haven't heard about them.

neverending 06-08-2014 07:52 PM

Quote:

Do you think people discount films that are animated when considering the best films all-time?
To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

_____V_____ 06-08-2014 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sculpt (Post 971315)
FYI - I just checked our 100 Years of Horror, the 1970 list (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...7&postcount=22) (A Clockwork Orange is 1971), and Clockwork is not in the 1970's list. It's also not in the 1970's Honorable Mentions (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...8&postcount=38). Being it's one of the best films of all-time (surely one of best in 70's), we obviously must have disallowed it -- said it wasn't a Horror film. And so, if we/HDC disallowed it as a Horror film, you think we should allow it in non-horror, and not let drop through the cracks?

It's in the 100 Years Of Horror compilation, under "HDC Members Specially Recommend...". Check again.

It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100.

Anyway, sfear has sent in his alternate choice. It's duly added to the Master List posted a few pages back.

Sculpt 06-08-2014 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverending (Post 971340)
To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

Sculpt 06-08-2014 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _____V_____ (Post 971346)
It's in the 100 Years Of Horror compilation, under "HDC Members Specially Recommend...". Check again.

It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100.

Anyway, sfear has sent in his alternate choice. It's duly added to the Master List posted a few pages back.

You got me really curious now. You're right, V, it is in Special Recommendations. That seemed really strange considering it's on the AFI list of 100 greatest films. I had to check the original debate thread (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...&postcount=310). Interesting, A Clockwork Orange is not in the 1970's Master List, and naturally not in the leadoff Summation/debate page. I searched for the name of the film during the collection and discussion/debate posts, and it does not appear (making it unknown how it got in Recommendations).

The reason it wasn't in the 70's master list (the top standard you were using) is the imdb.com genre listings, A Clockwork Orange are listed as: Crime | Drama | Sci-Fi.

Anyway, it's your call, V. Officially, it was not included in our 100 Years of Horror competition. (I never considered it Horror.) I just had to find out what happen to it.

roshiq 06-08-2014 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sculpt (Post 971347)
I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

And no Grave of the Fireflies & Up??!! :shocked:
IMO...If any animated film deserves to be in the Top 100 or its supporting list of honorable mentions, then that should be either GOTF or Up.

FYI...there's an animated film in my submitted Top 20 list.

The Villain 06-09-2014 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverending (Post 971340)
To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

Agree with you on Dumbo but not Fantasia or Lion King. Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sculpt (Post 971347)
I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

I agree with you on Lion King, Snow White and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Both Lion King and Snow White were big movies for Disney and Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a great story that's become a Halloween classic. I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.

neverending 06-09-2014 07:33 AM

Quote:

Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.
Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?

Kandarian Demon 06-09-2014 08:27 AM

I don't think Fantasia is overrated either, in my personal opinion it's amazing in every way.

I'm not prejudiced against animated movies, or "family movies" for that matter, which I think I've already mentioned that I have a tendency to prefer when I'm not watching horror.

Movies have the power to touch us in so many ways, to make us feel and think... and I think it's a shame that for a movie to be taken seriously, it has to be dark, pessimistic, dramatic, or have lots of violence and explotions.

And when I say "sad", it's because it's kind of like saying that if a movie can make you feel happy, laugh, remember your inner child/childhood, remind you of your appreciation of your family - that's somehow not valid, and something that should be ridiculed no matter how well the movie was done, or how artful the animation is.

When a dark movie with a negative messages tells a story that is set in an imaginary world, it's a masterpiece - if a happy movie does the same thing, it's just a stupid, unrealistic fairy tale for babies.

The more miserable a movie makes you feel, the greater art it is - or so it seems. Yes, we all know the world is a horrible place... and there are plenty of movies to remind us of that. There is a time and a place for that... but I will never understand why it's so bad, why it can't be art, when a movie has the power to take us away from all of that, just for a little while.

It's the same with music - happy songs are always looked down upon. A song and it's lyrics are just not art unless it tells us about human suffering and makes us want to kill ourselves. How dare anyone be positive and call themselves artists!

I also don't get why artwork is suddenly not art anymore because it "moves".

This post is not directed at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud about something that I'll just never understand.

metternich1815 06-09-2014 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sculpt (Post 971347)
I think there's a natural discredit to animated films, maybe because their association with cartoons, which are for kids.

Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are:

I consider these the best:
Yellow Submarine 1968
The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube)
The Incredibles
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short)

These are very good and personal favorites:
Horton Hears a Who! (1970)
Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975
The White Seal (1975)
Wizards 1977
The Hobbit 1977
How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966)

These are excellent films:
Fantasia 1940 (for the art)
Fantastic Planet (1973)
Rango 2011
Monsters Inc
Aladdin (1992)
The Lion King 1994
Pinocchio 1940
Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
Spirited Away 2001
Wall-e 2008
Toy Story 1995
A Bug's Life (1998)
Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
Ice Age 2002

I think these are very good films:
Sleeping Beauty 1959
The Lorax (1972)
Charlotte's Web (1973)
Akira 1988
Ghost in the Shell 1995

There are alot of films on your list that I really enjoyed, but do not know that I would include on a top 100 list of all time.
Quote:

Originally Posted by neverending (Post 971340)
To be honest, I do, which is probably not fair. I can't off the top of my head think of one I would consider one of the 100 best films of all times; certainly not Dumbo or Lion King. Maybe Fantasia.

I agree with you on the Lion King because I just never connected with that film. As for Dumbo, I do not know if I would really put it in the top 100 movies of all time, but I do think it is one of the best animated films and I actually watched it after I was a child. It is a classic with an excellent exploration of racism. As for Fantasia, I agree with you and I will agree that that film is definitely more deserving to be on the list. It is not overrated by any stretch of the imagination. I could definitely get on board with that film.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Villain (Post 971367)
Agree with you on Dumbo but not Fantasia or Lion King. Fantasia is overrated. Just a big art show.



I agree with you on Lion King, Snow White and The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Both Lion King and Snow White were big movies for Disney and Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a great story that's become a Halloween classic. I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.

I disagree with you on Dumbo, the Lion King, and Fantasia, as discussed above. I agree with you on Snow White (I even mentioned that when I made recommendations, that I thought it was definitely worthy of inclusion as well). I have not seen Legend of Sleepy Hollow (wasn't that included on the horror list?) or Toy Story 3. I agree that Nightmare Before Christmas was good, I do not know if I would include it on this list though.

The Villain 06-09-2014 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverending (Post 971391)
Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?

Yeah i might be being a little unfair. I was really young when i saw it and unable to appreciate works of art like that. I would've hated some of the silent movies as a kid that i love know. I think i'd have to rewatch it before making more of a opinion about it. I'll have to do that with a lot of films were talking about.

Sculpt 06-09-2014 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverending (Post 971391)
Now, I know you've seen silent movies, so you're not unfamiliar with the telling of stories without dialogue. Why then are you not able to recognize that each segment in Fantasia tells a story (with the exception of the abstract segment), and all without the use of title cards, and accompanied by some of the most breathtaking music in the world?

Well said, Neverending. I need to see Fantasia as a full adult now. We know animation (and special effects that very like it) is sometimes required to convey concepts, illustrations & worlds. The Neverending Story hit me in the heart & head with it's concept of nothing, devotion & love. If you haven't seen it, or in a long time, The Yellow Submarine plays the concept of nothing, compassion, devotion & love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roshiq (Post 971355)
And no Grave of the Fireflies & Up??!! :shocked:
IMO...If any animated film deserves to be in the Top 100 or its supporting list of honorable mentions, then that should be either GOTF or Up.

FYI...there's an animated film in my submitted Top 20 list.

There are other animated films I think are really good that I didn't list (Nightmare Before Christmas, Toy Stories, Ninja Scroll, Beauty Beast, ect), I didn't want to make the list too big. I enjoyed UP, but more intrigued by GOTF.

Thank you for mentioning Grave of the Fireflies! I never heard of it. It'll be my next film to watch -- and hope you join me and let yourself get blown away by Yellow Submarine.


Quote:

Originally Posted by The Villain (Post 971367)
Yeah i might be being a little unfair. I was really young when i saw it and unable to appreciate works of art like that. I would've hated some of the silent movies as a kid that i love know. I think i'd have to rewatch it before making more of a opinion about it. I'll have to do that with a lot of films were talking about.
.................................................. .............................
I'd also include Toy Story 3 which is one of the only animated movies to elicit an emotional response from me and Nightmare Before Christmas.

You're right, Villain. I was too young when I saw Fantasia. I need to see it again.

And I know what you mean about special animated films that have dove down deep to strike a enveloping emotional response that resonates to everything. If you haven't seen Yellow Submarine as an adult, open a door to this pure art of love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kandarian Demon (Post 971396)
I don't think Fantasia is overrated either, in my personal opinion it's amazing in every way.

I'm not prejudiced against animated movies, or "family movies" for that matter, which I think I've already mentioned that I have a tendency to prefer when I'm not watching horror.

Movies have the power to touch us in so many ways, to make us feel and think... and I think it's a shame that for a movie to be taken seriously, it has to be dark, pessimistic, dramatic, or have lots of violence and explosions.

And when I say "sad", it's because it's kind of like saying that if a movie can make you feel happy, laugh, remember your inner child/childhood, remind you of your appreciation of your family - that's somehow not valid, and something that should be ridiculed no matter how well the movie was done, or how artful the animation is.

When a dark movie with a negative messages tells a story that is set in an imaginary world, it's a masterpiece - if a happy movie does the same thing, it's just a stupid, unrealistic fairy tale for babies.

The more miserable a movie makes you feel, the greater art it is - or so it seems. Yes, we all know the world is a horrible place... and there are plenty of movies to remind us of that. There is a time and a place for that... but I will never understand why it's so bad, why it can't be art, when a movie has the power to take us away from all of that, just for a little while.

It's the same with music - happy songs are always looked down upon. A song and it's lyrics are just not art unless it tells us about human suffering and makes us want to kill ourselves. How dare anyone be positive and call themselves artists!

I also don't get why artwork is suddenly not art anymore because it "moves".

This post is not directed at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud about something that I'll just never understand.

Wow, Kan, you nailed it, and said so well. It's true, why do we promote the dark hopeless nihilism as high art and discredit the great tellings of the more difficult art of: opening up to risk, the work of deeply understanding concepts/people we find ourselves uncomfortable/fractious with, endevears of self sacrifice and love? (Have you seen Yellow Sub as an adult?) ::wink::

Quote:

Originally Posted by metternich1815 (Post 971397)
As for Dumbo, I do not know if I would really put it in the top 100 movies of all time, but I do think it is one of the best animated films and I actually watched it after I was a child. It is a classic with an excellent exploration of racism. As for Fantasia, I agree with you and I will agree that that film is definitely more deserving to be on the list. It is not overrated by any stretch of the imagination. I could definitely get on board with that film.

I agree with you on Snow White (I even mentioned that when I made recommendations, that I thought it was definitely worthy of inclusion as well). I have not seen Legend of Sleepy Hollow (wasn't that included on the horror list?) or Toy Story 3.

Dumbo is a very unique film and story. I love "Elephants on Parade". I've used that on my radio show with extra effects, very trippy.

The Legend of Sleepy Hollow is beautiful, a lot of fun and actually scary. Narration by Basil Rathbone and Bing Crosby. It's about 30 mins. I'm sure you can figure out a way to see it. It was originally the 2nd story in the film The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad.

Mett, if you've read reply so far, I hate to sound like a broken record, but the intellectual concepts, symbolism, imagery in Yellow Submarine are fantastic. Classic psychedelic art, and moving message. If you haven't seen it (as adult), I recommend higher than any film.

Giganticface 06-09-2014 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sculpt (Post 971352)
You got me really curious now. You're right, V, it is in Special Recommendations. That seemed really strange considering it's on the AFI list of 100 greatest films. I had to check the original debate thread (http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...&postcount=310). Interesting, A Clockwork Orange is not in the 1970's Master List, and naturally not in the leadoff Summation/debate page. I searched for the name of the film during the collection and discussion/debate posts, and it does not appear (making it unknown how it got in Recommendations).

The reason it wasn't in the 70's master list (the top standard you were using) is the imdb.com genre listings, A Clockwork Orange are listed as: Crime | Drama | Sci-Fi.

Anyway, it's your call, V. Officially, it was not included in our 100 Years of Horror competition. (I never considered it Horror.) I just had to find out what happen to it.

http://horror.com/forum/showpost.php...&postcount=269

Complete with pictures :)

Sculpt 06-09-2014 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giganticface (Post 971424)

Thanks, Gigan, I was pretty sure that was in there somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giganticface (Post 948702)
I'd also like to vote for adding A Clockwork Orange to the list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by V (Post 948705)
All debatable entries for the horror genre. But I leave this open for discussion. If enough are in favor, they will be merged into the list.

Nobody supported Clockwork for inclusion. And it wasn't in the 1970 Master List. Film genre stepchild. ::wink::
Case closed.

neverending 06-10-2014 01:50 AM

You keep overlooking (purposely?) this part of V's statement on Clockwork Orange:

Quote:

It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100.
It's already in one of our horror lists, and therefore is eliminated from consideration in this compilation. Can we move on now?

Giganticface 06-10-2014 07:00 AM

I didn't get the impression he was trying to belabor the point. "Case closed."

Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of great films that won't get the recognition they deserve on our lists because they're not quite horror. Requiem for a Dream, Memento, Donnie Darko. Hey, I propose that as an idea for our next list: The Top N Not Quite Horror Movies.

(I'm guessing Requiem is on the "Disturbing" list at least.)

_____V_____ 06-15-2014 09:33 PM

So, let's pick up from where we left this...

Now that the Master List is posted and everyone has had ample time to study the films on it, let's go back to those which saw the most number of nominations:-

The SIX films with FIVE or more nominations each, and
the SEVEN films with FOUR nominations.

All in favor of including?

Objections, if any?

Sculpt 06-15-2014 10:11 PM

Im in favor/approve of all we've picked so far.

neverending 06-15-2014 10:39 PM

Meh. I'm sick. I'm not up to the battle, and I'm losing what precious little writing time I have.

I'm out.

roshiq 06-15-2014 11:23 PM

I've shared my thoughts, let's move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverending (Post 971970)
Meh. I'm sick. I'm not up to the battle, and I'm losing what precious little writing time I have.

I'm out.

Get well soon, Lee.

The Villain 06-16-2014 03:53 AM

I'm in favor

realdealblues 06-16-2014 05:48 AM

The only one out of the list of 4 and 5 vote getters that I don't care for is The Matrix...it's not even close to my top 100.

I also think there are a lot better Westerns than Once Upon A Time In The West...

I'd probably neg vote those...but I'm sure I would be outvoted or overruled by others.


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