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I guess I'll (sorta reluctantly) enter the top 100 discussion. Based on some of the past comments, I'm not sure this is the right thread for me. I have a feeling I'm not going enjoy every minute of it. :)
As a head's up, you probably won't ever hear me arguing for a film based on any technical aspect of its makeup, and honestly I don't put a lot of value on those qualities. If the movie makes me think, or makes me feel something, it's on my radar. I won't discredit a film for having a few warts. Flaws are what makes things unique. Obviously I'm not going to praise a film for being a pile of crap, but you won't hear me disqualifying a film because of one element that doesn't meet my particular definition of "good." Like saying Star Wars has too simple a story (it's called melodrama... ever read Shakespere?), or Apocalypse Now feels unresolved (maybe that's... intentional?). My tastes are naturally a bit off-the-beaten-path, so I don't expect everyone (or anyone?) to agree with me, but I do have a strong allergic reaction to the status quo. So, having said that, here's my next 5. (BTW, I really like the idea roshiq. And, better late than never, "Get better soon, V!!" Since A Clockwork Orange probably doesn't need my help, I'll hold my vote on that one, but it deserves it. Too sci-fi for many to make the best Horror list (although I disagree), and IMO too horrific to be on the non-horror list. Since it looks like Once Upon a Time in the West might make it, I'll hold my vote on a different Sergio Leone classic. I chose For a Fistful of Dollars in my top 20, and I prefer the Man with No Name trilogy over the Once...in the West epic, but I would be happy to back For a Few Dollars More or, better yet, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly since it doesn't look like Fistful will get the votes. These films are likely to be poo-pooed by some -- but then again, so are the Bava, Argento and Fulci classics by many critics. They are truly iconic, important and visually beautiful films. Ennio Morricone gave us the score that we now associate with "Westerns." And perhaps most importantly, they essentially invented the anti-hero. All of a sudden John Wayne was a goodie-two-shoes, and no longer the coolest guy on the block. Cinema has never been the same since. The actual five outside my 20 that I'll back are: 1. Black Swan -- Although I truly consider this a horror film, Arnofsky and Co. did a great job marketing this as non-horror so it would get attention at the Oscars -- so much so that even horror fans believe it. A modern masterpiece in psychological storytelling. Heartbreaking and distressing. 2. Monty Python & The Holy Grail -- No argument is really necessary. If you love it, you love it, and if you don't, you never will. But for a comedy, this film has the most amazingly detailed sets and costumes, and feels extremely gritty for being off-the-wall British slapstick. This film has no peers. 3. The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover -- This film breaks too many rules for most folks, and I wouldn't want to watch it with my mom. But every time I do watch it, I'm left gut-punched for a couple days. 4. The Deer Hunter -- Incredible cast, moving, heartbreaking, epic. A truly impactful drama that is oh so human. 5. Fargo -- I would be fine with any number of Coen Brothers films, but one of them really needs to make the list. I chose O Brother, Where Art Thou?, but that film is a bit niche for a broad range of voters. Fargo has been cherished by quite a few, including myself, and has an endless number of memorable moments. The Coen Bros know how to define and develop unique, but still believable, characters. I personally think The Big Lebowski is a better example of that, but Fargo is probably more respected in a general sense, and a good choice if the Bros only get one. |
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Out of the movies that didn't make my top 20, I'll back:
A Christmas Carol (Providing its the one staring Alastair Sim and not some god awful modern remake I haven't yet had the misfortune to watch). The Grapes of Wrath Rashomon There are a few others I'd vote for, but for now I'll just wait and see what happens. There's so much crap with multiple votes, I'd rather back movies that I might not necessarily have in my own top 100 that are a ton better than some of the other junk in the running. Also, someone get behind The Apartment already.... And what's with 12 Monkey's getting more support than Brazil. Surely if you are going to have a Terry Gilliam movie in the top 100 it has to be Brazil. :shocked: |
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Seeing how this is all just debate, it hardly makes a difference anyway.
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Terminator - loved it, excellent sc-fi and exciting. Only x from me is although warning against AI is fine, it lacks an important message. Blade Runner- loved it, excellent sc-fi. Slight lack of heart for me. I enjoyed all the films in your list. Quote:
Wow, you haven't seen Fight Club. You have another huge treat. It's intense philosophy. Knowing your tastes, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Quote:
Don't know any other film named "labyrinth"... you're probably talking about Pan Labyrinth? I'll see Labyrinth based on your recommendation. I saw clips, and I wasn't big on those types of musicals at the time. |
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Let me say upfront, I know the Apocalypse Now ending is "meant" to be unresolved. (War, man's heart, life, Kutz's Society... it can be viewed as absurd, cold and hopelessly unresolvable.) The film ending is famously unresolved and has been debated at length. I can easily accept the unresolve is meant to be, the point, etc. The thing is, many ask, "does it work?" Some say 'no', and some say 'yes'. I know it works in many aspects. But in picking the best films of all-time, the resolution is no small thing. To me the ending isn't it's crowing achievement, but rather an ending that only partly works. I wouldn't vote against it. It's just flawed to me. Deer Hunter is an excellent and moving film. It was on my Plus20 list. Black Swan - My expectations outstretched the film. Although it's well done, it was a bit old hat for me (for me, obviously not a common plot). I didn't feel connected and empathetic to Portman's character as I would have liked. And the ending wasn't as satisfying as I hoped. Quote:
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No, when someone refers to the film Labyrinth, they're not referring to Pan's Labyrinth. They're talking about Jennifer Connelly's film debut, a fun fantasy musical adventure featuring the Muppets (but not the ones you usually see) and David Bowie.
It's an enjoyable romp, but definitely not one of the 100 best films ever made. |
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I don't believe she was saying there was another film named Labyrinth (though there is), just saying she was assuming the person didn't mean some other non-specified film. It's a fine point not worth niggling over, but I am anyway. ::smile::
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My mistake - A Clockwork Orange has plenty of horror elements and disturbing scenes, and it already finds representation in a few of our other lists.
The last HDC member to have submitted a list, sfear, included it in his 20 and I couldn't proof-read it before adding his choices to the Master List. Sent him a PM to send in a replacement. Said film stands removed. |
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Lion King is undoubtedly a lovely, great film but I think there are better films animated films to get join in the final bunch. Quote:
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Neverending is correct - I have no idea if there are any other movies called Labyrinth, but there could have been. It's not a particularly unique sounding title, and there was no year of release, so... just wanted to make sure it WAS the movie I was thinking of.
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Speaking of Loin King, makes me wonder what the best animated films of all-time are. Do you think people discount films that are animated when considering the best films all-time? |
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It's also at the top of the Sickest, Gorific, Disturbing and Controversial film compilation - the Visually Challenging 100. Anyway, sfear has sent in his alternate choice. It's duly added to the Master List posted a few pages back. |
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Some of the best animated films I've seen (that come to mind) are: I consider these the best: Yellow Submarine 1968 The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe 1979 (i see it's on youtube) The Incredibles The Legend of Sleepy Hollow 1949 (film short) These are very good and personal favorites: Horton Hears a Who! (1970) Rikki Tikki Tavi 1975 The White Seal (1975) Wizards 1977 The Hobbit 1977 How the Grinch Stole Christmas! (1966) These are excellent films: Fantasia 1940 (for the art) Fantastic Planet (1973) Rango 2011 Monsters Inc Aladdin (1992) The Lion King 1994 Pinocchio 1940 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937) Spirited Away 2001 Wall-e 2008 Toy Story 1995 A Bug's Life (1998) Wallace and Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993) Ice Age 2002 I think these are very good films: Sleeping Beauty 1959 The Lorax (1972) Charlotte's Web (1973) Akira 1988 Ghost in the Shell 1995 |
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The reason it wasn't in the 70's master list (the top standard you were using) is the imdb.com genre listings, A Clockwork Orange are listed as: Crime | Drama | Sci-Fi. Anyway, it's your call, V. Officially, it was not included in our 100 Years of Horror competition. (I never considered it Horror.) I just had to find out what happen to it. |
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IMO...If any animated film deserves to be in the Top 100 or its supporting list of honorable mentions, then that should be either GOTF or Up. FYI...there's an animated film in my submitted Top 20 list. |
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I don't think Fantasia is overrated either, in my personal opinion it's amazing in every way.
I'm not prejudiced against animated movies, or "family movies" for that matter, which I think I've already mentioned that I have a tendency to prefer when I'm not watching horror. Movies have the power to touch us in so many ways, to make us feel and think... and I think it's a shame that for a movie to be taken seriously, it has to be dark, pessimistic, dramatic, or have lots of violence and explotions. And when I say "sad", it's because it's kind of like saying that if a movie can make you feel happy, laugh, remember your inner child/childhood, remind you of your appreciation of your family - that's somehow not valid, and something that should be ridiculed no matter how well the movie was done, or how artful the animation is. When a dark movie with a negative messages tells a story that is set in an imaginary world, it's a masterpiece - if a happy movie does the same thing, it's just a stupid, unrealistic fairy tale for babies. The more miserable a movie makes you feel, the greater art it is - or so it seems. Yes, we all know the world is a horrible place... and there are plenty of movies to remind us of that. There is a time and a place for that... but I will never understand why it's so bad, why it can't be art, when a movie has the power to take us away from all of that, just for a little while. It's the same with music - happy songs are always looked down upon. A song and it's lyrics are just not art unless it tells us about human suffering and makes us want to kill ourselves. How dare anyone be positive and call themselves artists! I also don't get why artwork is suddenly not art anymore because it "moves". This post is not directed at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud about something that I'll just never understand. |
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Thank you for mentioning Grave of the Fireflies! I never heard of it. It'll be my next film to watch -- and hope you join me and let yourself get blown away by Yellow Submarine. Quote:
And I know what you mean about special animated films that have dove down deep to strike a enveloping emotional response that resonates to everything. If you haven't seen Yellow Submarine as an adult, open a door to this pure art of love. Quote:
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The Legend of Sleepy Hollow is beautiful, a lot of fun and actually scary. Narration by Basil Rathbone and Bing Crosby. It's about 30 mins. I'm sure you can figure out a way to see it. It was originally the 2nd story in the film The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad. Mett, if you've read reply so far, I hate to sound like a broken record, but the intellectual concepts, symbolism, imagery in Yellow Submarine are fantastic. Classic psychedelic art, and moving message. If you haven't seen it (as adult), I recommend higher than any film. |
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Complete with pictures :) |
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Case closed. |
You keep overlooking (purposely?) this part of V's statement on Clockwork Orange:
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I didn't get the impression he was trying to belabor the point. "Case closed."
Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of great films that won't get the recognition they deserve on our lists because they're not quite horror. Requiem for a Dream, Memento, Donnie Darko. Hey, I propose that as an idea for our next list: The Top N Not Quite Horror Movies. (I'm guessing Requiem is on the "Disturbing" list at least.) |
So, let's pick up from where we left this...
Now that the Master List is posted and everyone has had ample time to study the films on it, let's go back to those which saw the most number of nominations:- The SIX films with FIVE or more nominations each, and the SEVEN films with FOUR nominations. All in favor of including? Objections, if any? |
Im in favor/approve of all we've picked so far.
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Meh. I'm sick. I'm not up to the battle, and I'm losing what precious little writing time I have.
I'm out. |
I've shared my thoughts, let's move on.
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I'm in favor
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The only one out of the list of 4 and 5 vote getters that I don't care for is The Matrix...it's not even close to my top 100.
I also think there are a lot better Westerns than Once Upon A Time In The West... I'd probably neg vote those...but I'm sure I would be outvoted or overruled by others. |
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