I'm still waiting for one solid fact to back up making them illegal. If all you have is personal beliefs then I'm waisting my time again.

...
 

I just wanted to say that Vamprocker needed to shut the hell up a few pages ago. People like him piss me off more than anything.

Yeah, I was kinda surprised at him, too.

Yeah...I don't wanna diss him here, but for a "vamp", he sure seems to love the ol' cross-related, huh?

yup

I will re-iterate a point here:

Vamp, when you start adopting and funding unwanted children, i think you then have a right to say something. Until then, go away. Is it better for a child to be brought up unwanted and abused? I guess so. AT least you didnt kill it. Much better for it to suffer for years and years rather than not know pain, ever.

If you think it has a soul, which makes it human, which makes abortion wrong, that's fine for you. But you can't make it illegal based on that.

Re: ...
 

Oh, why, thank you!

Honestly, I have no idea how I pissed anybody off. No, really, I don't. By arguing? Or was it because I threw in some "four letter words" that annoyed everyone? If that's the case, I hardly doubt that's the last thing you should worry about WHEN ARGUING OVER THE JUSTIFICATION OF MURDERING A HUMAN CHILD.

Maybe it's the fact that instead of discussing it and being civil you did nothing but insult people and wish that they'd die.

So you're saying it's "easier" to kill unwanted children?

Hey, Vodstok, can I kill you? I don't like you, nor will I ever want you, so, based on your theory, I'm allowed to take your life, right? Oh, wait, does that only apply to children? Yeah, I suppose so, since they're so young and inncont...

It's easier!

Way to go, jackass, proving to everyone that you find it much more simpler to murder a human being then to let it live and have a chance at living. Why do you think that YOU have that right, anyways?

Go away.

Oh, there are different type of breeds. Don't worry about it...

This is the way ive always felt. While some people have huge moral issues over this, i dont see where its anyones right (in any situation) to tell others what they CAN and CANT do to THIER OWN BODIES thats just government stepping in where it doesnt belong.

If you think its evil and wrong then dont have one, but i think its crazy to say "i think its evil, so YOU CANT HAVE ONE". i just dont understand that logic.

THANK YOU! That's the point I've been trying to make the whole time. Maybe they'll listen to you. *doubts it*

Well, if you were raised to think murder was alright, don't you think you'd be mad at the government for outlawing it? You'd be pissed.

If you think abortion is murder, you'd be horrified to think that the government would allow a go-ahead on it.

If abortion is legal, I only find it fair that manslaughter (towards humans out of the womb) be legal, too.

I just wanna play fair.

out of the womb: Fully developed, human
in the womb: not developed, not human for like 2 months

There's evidence to back up that theory, where's the evidence to back up yours? I've asked a bunch of times, and noboby's given me any.

Haven't I explained it? I think I've explained it...

"in the womb: not developed, not human for like 2 months"

How do you know that? How can ANYBODY know that? It's playing God to assume you do know, for a fact, how humans are created. What do scientists know?

ok ill grant you that Vamp. But i think once you give the government power to make and break laws governing OTHER PEOPLES morals, its a slippery slope.

Its different with murder, thats infrindging on another persons body, but we're talkin abortion laws here. Thats pretty much saying "you cannot do this to YOUR OWN body, because WE think its wrong".

Granted, the issue we are really trying to resolve is : how long does it take for the fetus to become a living thing, and this is debatable. I think 3rd trimester abortions SHOULD be outlawed because its had so long to develop.

But im personally a fan of making my own decisions, and i think to deny anyone their own right to decide about THEIR own body is dangerous territory.

they know what makes something a mammal, they know that humans are mammals, and they know when the different things develop.


No, you haven't explained it. Unless "Sam and Fluffho should die" is your explanation

I'm just arguing when it's human. A lot of things are living and we kill them all the time. Animals, plants, even bacteria are all living things. But they're not human so nobody cares.

BTW, do animals not have souls?

You're right. It doesn't matter it it's just a fetus, or something. It's still a human life, OR a potential human life. And it's still murder IMO.

If you don't want the baby, give it up for adoption. Don't kill it.

Oh, POTENTIAL human life? Well, each sperm is potential human life, do you think we should outlaw masturbation and birth control?

What about the BABY's body?...I don't give a damn what anyone does to their OWN body...If someone wants to cut their arm off, or blow their fucking brains out, I really don't give a shit...I'm talking about what they're doing to the BABY...By the way, It's the decision they made about what to DO WITH THEIR BODY, that got them pregnant in the first place...People need to take some responsibility for their actions...DAMN

Once again, what about cases in which she was raped?

And Rotting Eye already went over this, so I'll just quote him:

Seperating church and state, things in the womb do not have souls.

Based on what Sam has been saying, which is fact, babies don't even start to develop anything vital until after the first few months. How do you murder something that isn't even alive? Take away the umbilical cord, and that fetus is going to die.

And stop giving these "what if" situations. You have to look both ways.

Also, as far as I'm concerned scientists are playing God.. God intended for man and woman to conceive a child, and that child inherits all their traits from mom and dad. Anyone watch the news? I don't know if it's another hoax, but someone has claimed to have cloned a human. What comes next? DNA splicing as to change the traits of a child (ex: hair color, genetic diseases, height, etc etc.) Sounds like God's job.

Here's something else to think about: babies are a parasite heh. Want a definition?
"Biology. An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host."

I think killing babies is a little different than masturbation...

If you don't want babies, then unless a man forces himself upon a woman, maybe she should keep her legs together. THAT is choice. People say "Pro choice, a woman should choose whether she wants the baby, or not." When, most the time you can choose to have sex or not. Which is choosing to be pregnant, or not.

I was about to bring up the parasite thing. It's true.
They still won't care, though.

1) What Sam quoted me.

2) People do take responsibilities for their actions. Look up the statistics on birth control. I don't remember them exactly. Condoms 93% effective, the pill 99.8%, IUDs 96%, etc etc..
Abstinence is the only 100%. Who doesn't like to have sex? Give me a break... That's why birth control was invented. People do take responsibilities for their actions, but mistakes still happen.

It's not a baby, it's a POTENTIAL baby. And if you bring potential into it, then you can't ignore everything except what you want to count.

Everytime a woman menstruates, or a male ejaculates there's possibility of a child. Hell, for every one child to be born, millions of other sperm die.. Those are all possible children.

Maybe the secret is, we should just stop having altogether kids, to save everyone!! YES I FOUND THE ANSWER! -_-

Then again there are still wet dreams...

If you want to fight semantics, let's do it :p

Oooh, I'm good at that.

Yar, matey.

Maybe I was off with the potential thing.

But, it could already be a life. Think, and everything. How are we supposed to know? We can't know. So if you don't want a baby don't put yourself in a position to have one. I don't think of it a an "extension of a woman" it's, it's own life. Or you could just put yourself in the babies shoes. What if you never got a chance to live?

Okay, lets ignore all facts for a moment. How are we supposed to know? We don't. So why is it right for only your beliefs to affect laws? You only know as much as everybody else, so why is your opinion the right one?

First of all I see several "what if" statements.
..
...
....

Second, it's not a life, and it can't think until a brain develops. Even then, not until the brain begins to function. Or can you really think without a brain, or function while braindead?

It might have an undeveleoped, or only partially developed brain, not able to think, but it would still have a soul. Besides, like I said, how do we know it can't think?

You keep going back to the soul, and it never gets any more valid. There's proof that supports everything I've said, but you have yet to proove that it has a soul.

Soul = Religion, and religion DOES NOT BELONG in this.

Well, I believe it has a soul. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's my religion, I don't know. But it's just my opinion. Maybe my religion is where my opinion's coming from. Even if didn't have a soul, I still think it's murder.

Then leave religion out of it, and try to base your opinion around it being murder.

Begin.

I don't think it'll happen