Despare, good call. I don't need to repeat for the billionth time what I got my undergraduate degree in at uni and how I'd like to get my PhD in the same field, but I could talk about it all day. You wouldn't believe how fascinating the topic is, if people actually talked about it. The thing is, a lot of people are sort of put off by the subject (especially during these times).

By in large, most of the responses that were give, especially Sam's, described agnosticism: the concept that there is or if there is a higher power/consciousness at work human beings cannot even begin to comprehend it, so why bother. (IMO, you're already plugged in anyway)

I really thought what Urge said was cool. You (Urge) said that your morals came from you and you didn't need some one or a book to tell you. Honestly, I think that is true in most people; it's human nature. Those people that don't have that particular drive, tend to be aberhant members of society, and thus it is human nature to have that desire to force them out of the human society as a whole. Survival instincts...

There in lies the problem that I have with "religion." It isn't the belief in Deity. It's the heirarchical pattern that presupposes that all but a select few are in the know, while the rest (about 90%) are disconected and need to be told, led, etc. The truth is everyone in whatever way is in the know. It's instinctive.

I will say that those fuckers who sale themselves, the planet (habits, wildlife, the benefit of other human beings despite their own morality have disconnected themselves from the internal consciousness or their own humanity... if that makes any sense... I quess I just don't understand those people).

Haha...No...Rory does that...Not ME :p

Pinkerton- Who'd win in a wrestling match, Lemmy or God?
omcdave- Lemmy.
Pinkerton-buzzzzzzz*imitates buzzer*
omcdave-God?
Pinkerton-Wrong, dickhead, trick question. Lemmy IS God.

What kind of questions?

Editted out of curiosity: What have you and your co worker been discussing? (Studied Islam, myself, so am curious).

Okay then.

Assuming that the foundation of Chriatian beliefs (either arian or Roman-Catholic, take your pick) are true; Judas gave at least as great a sacrifice as Jesus, agree or disagree?

Actually heard a sermon on that once. According to the Rev. it was a sacrifice, and that Judas went to Heaven.

He had to have done the right thing. Besides, Jesus is supposed to be forgiving, so therefore, would have probably told Judas in the afterlife, "Dude, don't sweat it. You did what you supposed to. You had to do the dirty work for the whole thing to go down."

Well, in most of the Christian-related literature I've seen, Judas is in the lowest depths of hell. That's the first I've heard of anybody saying he went to heaven.

"if (almost) all of the holy books were supposedly written by god ..

why is there not one mention of the dinosaur."

The holy books are supposed to hold lessons for mankind. What lessons would we learn from the dinosaur?

I would think eternal damnation for saving mankind would be the greater sacrifice, yes. Jesus is the son of god, Judas is forever burning in the worst part of hell. Come on who's really suffering for our sins?

Exactly my thoughts.

Someone said he went to hell for committing suicide, but then Moses killed people when they were worshipping the golden calf, and he went to heaven