So...What about the fathers?...The baby is just as much theirs as it is the mother's...What if they feel that they aren't ready to be fathers, or they want to finish college without the irritation of raising their baby, or whatever other reason people come up with...Shouldn't the father have just as much right to demand that the baby be killed?...Or what if the father WANTS the baby?...Can't he demand that it not be killed?...I mean it IS his child...But, I guess as long as people see the baby as a part of the woman's body, the father can have no say about what happens to HIS child...Kind of a double standard wouldn't you say?

You spoke of her as if she was less than human. If that's not abandonment, at least at heart, then I don't know what is.

I'm done with this crap. This thread should be nuked.

MODS: If you read this, please nuke this thread. Thanks.

dont nuke it that would be gay

just dont argue any more. who cares.

thats why I've been avoiding this thread, the topic is far to controversial atm, since it's a much talked about debate in the media, especially in the Uk.

Well, at the time that it happened she and I had just gotten married. I was still in school and working the night shift at a gas station and she was scooping ice cream at Bask Robbins. We both had minimum wage jobs, and could barely make the rent on our two bedroom trailer.
Eating baloney sandwiches everyday would have been a luxury! As it was, I could only afford to buy discounted junk food at the convenience store, and only ate when I worked. My wife ate ramen noodles and cereal. We did not have the luxury of moving back in with our parents because my mother had just gone through a divorce and had to move into a place large enough to simply accomodate her. My mother-in-law was a widow on a fixed income and she, too, had a one-bedroom place. So yes, we chose abortion (you use the term "killed your baby" so emotionally, I love it. But, I like to keep discussions in the realm of reason) because having the baby would have meant that I would have to drop out of school, thus dooming us both to dead-end jobs that we couldn't live off of. Let alone properly raise a child with.

I suppose we could have gone on welfare, but we were not about to make tax payers help us pay for our child. Going on welfare would have made me and my wife both ceritfiable hypocrites, thus taking away the last shred of dignity I had.

As far as thanking God goes ... no. I thank my father for having a good enough job to be able to afford two kids.

I guess I would be quilty of calling you those things indeirectly, eh? Sorry. No offense intended. But with a topic like this, some generalizations are going to made by all parties involved.

I do not think you are stupid at all. (Quite the opposite, in fact.)
I don't know if you're lazy, but you probably aren't. (Considering you have a good job in the real world.)
I don't know if you were immature at that point in your life or not and I probably never will.

It's sad to me that you had to do that, but I'm glad for the two of you that you seem to be dealing with it okay.

Those were broad generalizations I made, and obviously, they aren't going to apply in every scenario. Accidents happen. BUT, if you wanted to be extra safe, the female could go on the pill, the male could wear a condom. That's about as safe as you can get without abstaining altogether (or having an operation).

how about all those single mothers who can barely afford to keep their cihldren? if theyre not working all day, they are living off of welfare. how is that any better? kids majority of which drop out of school and end up in gangs...

i aint havin kids until im ready. until i can properly take care of them, have a good amount of money saved up just in case something were to happen. and to be able to feed him/her a lot more than just bologna or ramen, them shits are soo unhealthy.

call it murder whatever yuo want. thats what im gonna do as well as with others. not even that yuo can call it murder, there is no malice. id much rather have a 6 week old fetus destroyed than to watch a cihld grow up in some trash home with parents who can barely care for themselves.

Stingy, Fluff, Bwind, I congratulate all of you on well thought out and articulate posts.

Stingy- Cases like that are why abortion should be legal (completely).

Bwind- I already forgot what you posted. :(

Fluff- Same here. If I were to get someone pregnant right now, I wouldn't be able to afford it. Plain and simple. I can barely afford to feed myself.

Im all about the government staying OUT of my life....and others life.... pro personal choice! Fuck the goverment that tells us what to do with our own BODIES!!

OMG. I ACTUALLY MADE A GOOD POST!

:D maybe my grammar isnt all there but i think the content is understandable!

im not gonna call anyone stupid/lazy/whaatever for having/not having an abortion or their thoughts on it. i DO find it stupid though someone make a generalization on someone simply on this..

god im sexy

mort imporantly, whether a woman has or does NOT have an abortion, believ it or not.. either way it IS in the best intereest of the child (just in different ways, obviosuyl). again.. NO malice! (not to say there arent exceptions)

Indeed.

lol u and ur anti government

i think this issue deals more than just the government telling u what and what not u can do..

The original reason that the government stepped in was a high public demand for it. The masses wanted this stopped, so the government intervened.

oh yeh i forgot

the abortoin cost her $500.. holy bejeesus!! her bf paid for it though.

i mean having the kid woulda cost a lot more but HOT DAMN thats a lot at least i think! it was with planned parenthood

LOL! im no anarchist....

The real issue at hand is whether it should be legal or not....and the only reason it SHOULD be illegal is coming from the people that would NEVER have one in the first place....they just want to deny all others the ability to choose the option THEY would never choose themselves...

I think thats bullshit....everyone should always have the ability to choose for themselves what is right for them. Just my $0.02.

but thats the problem

some people think its right for them to kill others... so shuold they be allowed to? where is the line drawn

again.. perception!

As long as it doesnt harm anyone else, people should be allowed to choose what they want for their own bodies...

The real issue you guys are bringing to the table is whether or not aborting a fetus is is harming someone elses rights...

Republicans - its a living being with a sould its evil...

Democrats - its too early its not alive yet, blah blah...

Honestly this part of the argument kinda bores me, as their is no proof, and concrete facts to support if its alive or isnt, the only thing that interests me is the issue of governement intervention...

yeh.. there is the whole bio on it like we know what is formed each week blah blah

but thats where it stops. soem people think its the heart, some the brain, some RIGHT when the sperm and egg join.. and u cant prove that

it bores me as well. ... a lot of science bores me.

i tihnk thats why i stand where i stand (gernally) in the middle

yes in the cases of rape/incest, or within the 1st trimester. of course maybe if i read up on more of the biology, i may even leak into the 2nd. but of course, IM BORED BY IT ALL!

in the cases of 3rd, i think if they are irresponsible enough (or naiive) to let it get to that point.. just go for adoption

Shouldn't you be wallowing in self pity somewhere?? Are you threatening me? Why are you so afraid of what I have had to say? I looked at your profile and I see you are only 21 which explains everything. This is the last time I'll ever speak directly to you. Next time you start a thread you should think about the magnitude of the subject to see if your able to handle it you big cry baby! Get outa the closet!

got your ass handed to you didn't you egekrusher.you spout typical liberal bullshit. tell me, if she would have agreed with every
thing you said she would have been your buddy. is that right ?
didnt you want peoples detailed opinion on abortion or is that only opinions that matched yours ? yes i agree with gothic-chick i
think your gay and just aren't ready to admit it. in your case i think abortion should be legal. go ahead mods selectively pick and
choose who you side with and kick off[kpro not included] this beatnik is always attacking people for their opinions on a public
message board. you have a enemy also egekrusher.......me!

You have no idea what your talking about... no mod does any of that here. How long have you been here again? I was gonna delete some of this bullshit flame war but no i have to keep most of these remarks to make an example. An example of HOW we arent deleting shit we dissagree with purely on that basis...

Even when the flame war posts in question attack us directly, and accuse us of doing what we prove we are not.

If your gonna attack a moderator by saying they arent doing their job....atleast single it down to ONE so your not generalizing on all of them...

Just try to get off the issue of how much you dislike the threads originator and back on to the issue at hand...dont make us(me) lock this over your problem with egekrusher....or mods..

As I said earlier, Blah Blah Blah!!! Typical list of excuses for not taking responsibility and trying to justify killing an innocent baby for reasons none other than selfishness..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Arioch
[B] I was gonna delete some of this bullshit flame war but no i have to keep most of these remarks to make an example. An example of HOW we arent deleting shit we dissagree with purely on that basis...



thats why i made the remark i did.so you wouldnt delete it.
i apologize if you think i was attacking you.

I would never delete a post i didnt agree with, purely on that basis... i mean both your and Gothic girl's posts are questionable, they both have good expressions of your viewpoints in them, which is the point of the thread.

The problem lies here in, where you guys just start blasting Ege., i know its a heated subject, but the thread isnt about him, its about abortion...

Just dont think that all the moderators on here are biased or something like that, because while some of them may be....i took offense to that...i would never ban or remove posts for bullshit reasons like that....most on here know that...

Yourlastmistake,
Zwoti and I have only banned one person...Just the same person, over and over again...As for deleting threads and/or posts...I have only deleted Bane's under his various SNs, and Zwoti hasn't removed ANY that I am aware of...So, I cannot imagine who you may be referring to, if not kPro, Arioch, Zwoti or myself.......OH...nevermind

that question is so ridiculous I can't even think of how to respond. Other than asking how old you are?

I'm kinda new here in fact my first post I was attacked and called a bitch by one of the moderators. I didn't mean to do anything wrong here. I have strong opinions about abortion and if I remember correctly Egekrushers exact words in the first post were ....

"What is your take on abortion? Besides the poll, I'd like to know your detailed feelings on abortion."

I wasn't aware that that meant everyone except who he disagrees with. Yeah I said his comment to me was stupid because it was.

He then told me I have made an enemy and he's the last person I want as an enemy. I think that other dude(YLM )just tried to defend me... Whatever! This is not worth it..

I'll try and be done with this subject I think I have said everything I want to anyway....

Which moderator?

Your opinions are greatly appreciated, lets just try to keep the thread headed in that direction and not in the direction of inflamatory/degrading remarks...on BOTH sides...

We can have a civil debate here i think....Alot of intellectuals here...well...in this thread atleast:p

WTF?? OK! think about the stupidity of your question.....

Kpropain

read through the beginning and it seemed as though everyone was pretty civil in their posts

it was a certain post though which was less 'this is my opinion' and more on the offensive 'those who do not share it are stupid and should be ashamed'

not naming who but....... i think thats why it lead to this.

there are several people on here (bwind for example) who disagreed with ege, myself and others. just that majority of people kept it on a neutral basis rather than personal.

Agreed. Which is why the thread should stay open....things like this CAN be discussed...and should be i think...

Gothic-chick I agree I did say that, but in all fairness I wasn't a mod then and I also apologized to you in that thread and you also responded to it... Once again I will even apologize here for it and hope you will accept the apology and won't hold a grudge...

Here is the thread you are refering to.
http://www.horror.com/forum/showthre...&threadid=6718

Anyway have fun discussing this heated abortion topic, I myself choose to stay out of it...

LOL...are you scared? dont be scared mr.propain:p

some people may say ur acting like a girly man...... ;)

No grudge, I'm going to have to stay out of this thread now too because it's making me mad.

I guess I should have known better, My views on abortion, and politics are so strong. I know I'm never going to change anyones mind about abortion. I strongly feel it's being used as birth control and I think it's very sad.

Oh well, I'll just muddle along here and raise my kids to value life, and deal with the consequences of their choices, instead of taking the easy way out..

I'm off to find another thread about gory shit to participate in.... I love gory shit!

what the hell...

if kpro apologized to you IN that thread for caling u a bitch (which is pretty much what he does to EVERY noob), and you replied right back then why the hell did you bother to bring it up now?

There are just way to many different circumstances that are brought in to factor on this subject....

And if I must say I'm kinda in the middle, only time I agree with it is in the case of rape or incest...

And you have?..............hmmmmmmm? :)

Not sure what the hell your point is.... You obviously mistook what you read... Seems to be alot of that in this thread.

I didn't reply to him . In fact I said he was an ass. At the time I had no intentions of ever speaking to the dude.

I said no grudge because I have had time to get over it.

whatever! Why am I telling YOU!