Not true at all. I love my wife above all else, even me, and i can be pretty self-absorbed, but i would jump under a bus to save my dog or one of my rats. I MIGHT shout a warning to my neighbor if they did the same.


Animals are not completely selfish and ignorant (like people. i live in a "Mobile home co-op", in other words, a trailer park. Trust me, people suck.)

I have chosen to segregate myself from most other people. I have been fucked over pretty bad by more than a few freinds, but i had actually made this decision long before then.


People who prefer animals do not necesarrily have severe emothional issues. Cheeba lives in a major city, i dont blame him for not wanting to be around other people.

Animals are innocents. They are not motivated by greed or malice. they wont destroy something simply because they cant have it. They dont try to hurt others simply because it makes them feel better or seeing other people's happiness hurts them.


Innocent adults, hell even innocent kids are hard to come by these days. If you've ever read any of Cheeba's posts about his pets, he is their father for lack of a better term. In this, i can also relate. I'm gouing to be a father for a human baby in about 7 and a half months, and i am looking foward to that too.

what it comes down to is empathy. I dont care if you feel sorrow for car fresheners when they run out of smell, as long as you feel something for something. that is the important thing:

Empathy.

It's what separates "normal" (or at least emotionally healthy) people from sociopaths, which are human monsters.

Isnt there animal psychologist...:p

this cat i had ... waited at the window for me to come home every day - rode around on my shoulders all the time ..

no matter where it was in the house, when i called it at night time it would run up to the room and on the bed to sleep with me.
it didnt meow at me for attention,, it just went everywhere with me ..

it didnt make me want to forsake human contact ... it was something you cant get from another human ..

just like people .. not all animals are capable of this kind of relationship ...

Animals can't feel empathy. The only reason their are no "bad" animals is because they don't know what's going on. If we're going to go by that, what is really wrong about anything? If we can't have universal rules, what's the point of having rules? Animals are selfish and how can you say an animal is not ignorant?

You'd sacrifice your life, to save a dog. Your survival should be way above some rat. You'd hurt your wife who you apparantly love to save a rat? Never to be with her again for a dirty rat? You can train a rat to kiss you, but it doesn't mean it loves you.

thats where animals and people are very much alike.

although .. most animals (the beagle being a glaring exception) only eat what they need ..

they are way less selfish than people

Its not a bad thing to be motivated by greed when your hungry....Thats whats keeps you alive..

Every dog I've known will eat whatever you give them. Especially chips :D

I've never seen a beagle I don't think though.

Wrong.
Why can't they?
You've never had an animal make EFFORT to cheer you up? Feel miserable and subdued when you're down?
I think empathy is the predominate way animals choose how to interact with their humans.

Why would a creature without emotion, or a feeling of friendship cry when you leave as though you were one of it's own? Because you ARE.
I choose to acknowledge and value this more than you, obviously.

Did i ever say i would sacrifice her? No, read it a little better next time. I was stating that i have experienced absolute love for another human being, yet still think animals are capable of love as well, i was arguing against your attmept at a point by saying people who love animals are substituting animals for peopel because they cant really feel.

people who dont think animals feel anything other than for themselves are usually projecting. it's the same reason pathological liars dont trust anyone and pedophiles think everyone else is just afraid to admit they want to fuck kids.

Do i think my pets philosophise or plot? No. Do i think they care? Yes. Have you ever seen an animal mourn the loss of another? I had a mouse that went into depression for about a week whenever another one would die. She would take care of the others once they got sick, then would almost stop eating and drinking for a whiole once they died. then she would recover.

Ever see an animal die from lonliness? ive seen that too. meet all of their other needs, but if a social animal is denied the company of others, it kills them. Notice how almost all doemstic animals are pack or community animal? They ARENT that different from us.

given your feelings on the whole thing, i have been wondering, have you ever loved anyone? I mean really loved them, not just high school crush "i soo love him" love.

empathy: The ability to put one's self into the psychological frame of reference or point of view of another, to feel what another feels.

Maybe you need to read a little better...

This is a very difficult subject to be sure on.........Some have some dont.....

And if we CAN, why can't they? Because they don't talk?
Don't see a "human" specification in that definition, do you?

I'm thinking the same about you and Cheeba actually. My thinking is that if you truly loved another person, you wouldn't want to risk having another person like him/her killed instead of any animal. I'd 500 cats and dogs before seeing my boyfriend die, I think that is a little more love than "I'd sacrifice myself for a rat... leave the one I "love" behind for a rat"

Actually yes, it's a human emotion. One of the major differences that separates us from other creatures of the earth.

Where in their did i say i would sacrifice my wife? I did happen to mention my neighbors (ie, the people who live next door) would probably be screwed.

:rolleyes:

"You'd sacrifice your life, to save a dog. Your survival should be way above some rat. You'd hurt your wife who you apparantly love to save a rat? Never to be with her again for a dirty rat? You can train a rat to kiss you, but it doesn't mean it loves you."

I said by sacrificing your life, you'd be hurting your wife and never be able to see her again. If that prospect doesn't bother you, I don't think you're in love.

Things you've missed, MD.

...RANDOM...



In reply to
According to you?
Proof? Evidence?
Many people argue that animals have no "real" emotions whatsoever...I'm glad I have PERSONALLY discovered this to be innaccurate.

Now, check your shit...and start posting sense.

LOL

Try to go into a jungle...... and take away a elephant baby from her mother......Why would she protect her own child ?...Bercause they have the ability to feel some kind of empathy....

i think higher animals .. chimps .. feel empathy.

there was a special (on jane goodall i think) who studied them and saw an older male take care of an orphaned baby.

he was an orphan himself. Definately a case for empathy there ..


without the personal barbs and retaliatory shots ..

i think its fair to say both sides have very valid points - but it comes back to one thing ..

We CANNOT compare the 2.

Cheeba still likes people .. I'm sure Vod wouldnt widow his wife for a rat with a 3 year lifespan .. and MD liked animals and people ,, but she likes to stir up shit by making absolute statements ..

you cannot compare animals to people .. we are very similar in some ways .. very different in others ...
We love both for different reasons ..

Protecting your young is a matter of survival, every living thing has that. Not empathy...

:D

*Sigh....*

The art of metaphor is apparently lost these days.

Because you need things spelled out, and because comparisons mean nothing to you, i will explain this in literal terms:

the statement was made outside the bounds of reality. I consider the life of my pets important, and therefore would be willing to place myelf in danger to help/save them. Obviously, i would not willingly die in a hopeless attempt to save ANYTHING if that means leaving my pregnant wife behind to live and raise our child alone. I would have thought the symbolism was obvious.

This brings up something else:
My wife wants to be a cop. She has wanted to be one since she was 8. Being a cop comes with it the possibility of her not living to see out kids graduate from high school, so does that mean that because she wants to be a cop , she doesnt love me or our kid? She wants to help other people, she wants to hunt down bad people and put them away. Does she therefore love other people more than me?

No.

Things are not as black and white as that. Literal is very rare in real life. I have more experience with people who take every little statement in life as the literal meaning than i care too. they are without fail small-minded and believe their opinions are the end-all-be-all.

Okay, so urge said it in simpler terms than i did :)


Arguing for the sake of arguing is pointless mental masturbation. It's an irritating waste of time.

Survival for who ?......and to be able to protect a another being you have to "feel" something for them...I would even go so long to say that empathy is part of the instincts...

Saying you'd jump under a bus to save a rat isn't even a metaphor, so don't even try calling me small minded. Take your "art" and shove it back up your ass.

Saying comparisons mean nothing to me and then comparing your wife willing to risk your life to save other people and sacrificing yourself life for a rat?

Please, I wish I could get my head that far up my ass. Everyone knows I can get it in there, but I guess I just don't have the neck strenght to really drive it home.

sometimes it's mental excersise...

and whats wrong with masterbation ? it's only irritating if you start to chafe :)

It was, actually.Words have much more to them than their literal interpretation.

And i never called you small minded, i merely implied it.

I was wrong, apparently you can read into things, when you want to.

One of these days, I'm going to take that high road. :p

I've had way too many people (freinds and freinds of freinds) who were incapable of holding a conversation without arguing, to the point of making up shit to argue about.

I have done 3 lifetimes worth of arguing about nothing. I'm tired.

And my wife wonders why all i talk about is the Simpsons and video games...:)

Seriously, I think it's time to use my fist.

Less talk, more rock. ;)

I believe there is an exit on the way to toronto, if you are ever in the area;)

you realize that's mostly because they just want food and they'll cuddle up to the first person willing to thrown 'em some scraps.

It does transcend that with quite a few domestic animals, though.

ahh, but thats the difference between an arguement and a discussion.
I hate arguing - i love discussing. its all in the presentation.

I dont mind someone playing the devils advocate for the sake of a good discussion .. but its usually easy to pull someones theory down if they dont believe in it themselves ..

Weird..... I think i hear Rod Serling somewhere...


We have begun (for the sake of discussion) discussing the validity of dicussion simply for the sake of discussion.

I have to go lie down.. my head hurts....

heh .. lightweight :D

i'll give you a sample of what i have been doing with my life lately:

That's just a little Method for uploading a file to a database. it is one of the simpler things i have done lately.
I have earned being a lightweight in the thinking department.


Plus i wanted to show off :D

look buster...

the thread is : Whats Wrong With Canada.

YOU had to go and fuck it up didnt you ?
you dont show up for weeks, and when you do .. you just start derailing threads ...


animals ARE better than people !!!

they dont pimp their code on internet forums !!!