I am confused - are you saying that these aren't horror films or have no place in horror?

Who are you addressing?

Glad you mentioned that. With Saw, one could say the victims experienced torture, but I don't think that's accurate. The scenes are about suspense: there's always a time limit and a choice dependent on the specific character. Torture is not the entertainment. There's a macabre interest, common in horror film, and human curiosity, but that isn't interest in watching torture. I don't doubt some people would be entertained by fictional torture, but very few.

I can't speak to Hostel, as I haven't seen it. From the description, there may actually be one or more scenes of torture with some actual duration, but I would doubt this was the majority, or main substance, of the film.

If I'm remembering right Hostel was just torture porn. Not much of a story really, just a lead up to scenes of torture.

I was addressing Kill Me, Freddy Krueger!

Ferox where is your avatar picture from?

that's Eva Braun Does Dresden

The latter. Horror movies and exploitation movies are interchangeable to me, though. I have added movies like A Serbian Film, The Human Centipede, etc on my "horror movies I have seen list."

What is that? Google gives me lots of links to information on her.

Come on now... How could you not know Eva Braun? with Dresden, nasi symbol? Not much into history? I was just making a joke. It's not a real film. Eva Braun is Hitler's designated media spouse. I think the film the pic is Iron Sky (2012).

You have netflix? I recommend "WWII in Color"; impressively well made doc, with plenty of new info I didn't know about.

No I know her, I thought it was from a film. Swastikas evoke a big wariness/disgust in me regardless of presentation unless its explicitly anti-nazi. Wanted some context to the picture.