Substance, chief, substance. I know it's a stretch getting out of your snark zone.

The same could be said about you.

Holy shit is this really needed? Honestly....

I'm not trying to get in the middle of this, but I do understand what Fuglystick is saying about new members.
Sometime, there is a serious lack of respect shown, or shots taken, just because folks don't meet the required time restraint to be "in" yet.

I don't think anyone wants a red carpet or anything, but common courtesy would be nice.
Just saying. We're all here because we love horror. How hard can it be to get along, and just hang out pleasantly?

If members wanna argue thats fine but keep it in private messages not on the board and if it gets too serious then, if you must, contact a mod.

Okay, chief, I'll break it down for you--

Part of the problem is that the members who want to contribute, and encourage others to contribute as well, is that we sat on our hands for too long while you and your posse were actively driving people away. It shouldn't be our job to keep members in check; moderators should be doing that. But they're not.

So, the next time one of you clowns want to fuck with a new member, we'll interject. We'll point out that the asshats do not speak for the rest of the board, but due to lax moderation, there is a small but shrill group of trolls camped out on the boards. We'll encourage them to make use of the ignore function, and then come and post as usual. More and more new members will stay when they are assured that they don't have to put up with the bullshit, and that the overwhelming majority of members aren't fucktards, and content and activity on the boards will improve. Meanwhile, your little bubble will get smaller and smaller, until you get on board or fall off like a gangrenous limb. Either way, the boards become a better place for those that want to discuss the horror genre.

There's the rub--moderators haven't been keeping the trolling and flaming in check. You're right, this shouldn't be hashed out here, but we don't have any choice. If the mods won't keep the douchebags in check, then the rest of us have to.

By making a thread about it? Don't think that was the right way to go about things.

I'm open to suggestions. How do we get rid of the trolls? Just ignoring them won't work, as they'll just continue to drive off the new members. We'll have to be more pro-active than that.

Actually being nice usually stops them. They are looking for reactions against them and threads like this. Try being nice to them.

And if this thread or my account should suddenly disappear, remember--I wasn't alone in this. In fact, I think it's safe to say that the majority would like to see the douchebaggery go away.

Reactions, yes. But they aren't looking forward to being called out. The majority of the community is fed up.

And the majority of the community is nice; it hasn't stopped them from portraying HDC as an acrimonious hell hole to anyone who joins.

I get it, you're annoyed at some of the conduct going on, but to be honest I think you're being a tad extreme. Some people can be unfair at times, but these same people tend to contribute a lot of valuable stuff too, hence why they haven't been banned. The mods do act on these things, they really do. You weren't here for Renob or OMCdave, and possibly even Nella and her lot, but if a member is out of line and causing too much trouble, even if they've been here a while they get seen to. The fact it, because the mods know that these people can contribute well they let more slide when it comes to their behaviour because, as I said, they know that these members can contribute well and it's worth putting up with the occasional (because it really isn't as constant as you seem to feel) "douchebaggery" as you put it, for their valuable posts.

And of course the mods won't ban you or close the thread just for speaking out against them. They're not communists.

How many potentially good posters are you willing to sacrifice so the douchebags can get their rocks off, ferret? Do we throw one a week to the dogs? Five? And all so we can appease a handful of assholes?

Fuck that. No one should have to endure fucktards just for trying to contribute to a board, and the fucktards' contributions aren't worth the discarded members accumulated potential.

Isn't this whole thread just an invite for trolling?

Don't you think this sort of problem would be better addressed via a private message to one of the mods?

Seriously, the problem with this place isnt the trolls or the lack of traffic its the incessant fucking whining and attention seeking and general throwing of toys out of prams.

As was mentioned earlier, Straker, if the mods were doing their jobs, there would be no need for this thread.

And what you call "incessant fucking whining and attention seeking and general throwing of toys out of prams" is a fucking community tired of a handful of shitheads sinking the ship. You put up with whatever you want; the rest of us are done with it.

Who is this "we" you keep bringing up?

...just sayin' :p

People like Wicker, Doc, urdevil, and endo in this thread alone, as well as the vast majority of the rest of the board. You don't really think I'm the only one tired of your shit, do you?

And no, I don't feel the need to huddle up with confidants on a message board.

I do actually.

I'll weigh in...

Personally on the whole "new members" thing, I'd rather one GOOD new member (as I've seen a fair few of since joining) that gets into posting, and doesn't get all crybaby about it when they get told "DUH" when they say something stupid, that 10 new members that will.
Why?
All the threads, eating up space, and making shit worse by kind of reinforcing/adding to what may have been a small amount of negativity by taking it to the level of "I'm going to make a thread to say FUCK YOU".

I don't know how I'm really perceived around here...I don't consider myself part of any group as such, probably because I've been here longer than anyone you're talking about...I've seen people call stupid STUPID, and I HAVE seen hazing of newbies, but the thing is, if you think MD and Elvis etc are any kind of issue, you haven't seen the worst by far.
Perhaps I'm wrong, I seldom even go into the new members part of the forum.
In fact the worst I've seen, is the newbies who get around 50+ posts and think they own the place, and they usually start out by (guess what) attacking existing members, making a big public "stand", and then they themselves end up giving the worst amount of shit to newcomers. I'm not saying that's the case here, but I've seen it before - Like Wu said, people getting literally told to fuck off and leave without provocation.
Thankfully, this doesn't really happen anymore.
I'd say this is in no small part due to the ongoing efforts of mods who have been here for long enough to know where to draw a line between hazing and idiotic maliciousness - I've seen things get bad here, really bad, and how things are now...are just not that.
Not all moves by moderation are publicly announced, of this I'm certain...though I KNOW they HAVE been involved in keeping some real idiotic cretins away from the place. The racists, the board flooders, the member imitators.
I don't give new people a hard time, and I never have...I sometimes tell them that they're probably going the wrong way reacting to things that would have ended then and there had they not, and if they get up in my face yeah I'll tell 'em to eat a dick...everyone's got the right to defend themselves sure, but sometimes they just don't need to.
I've had problems with MD in the past, and Elvis too...now we're all good as far as I can tell...in hindsight, part of these problems were due to them, part of them me, and yknow what dragged it out? Them getting a rise out of me. Was it intentional? Probably. Did I feel cruelly and maliciously targeted? Nope. In fact, even then at least part of me took it for just what it was, though that said her, myself and Elvis were a fair bit younger when we had issues. We've grown, and we've grown with this place.
Sometimes the funniest thing can be seeing how a person reacts...but also sometimes it's a good personality and maturity gauging tool, more often than not you DO see in a persons reaction and indication of the type of personality they have, and what lengths/depths they'll go to - but really you can't say they don't contribute here.
Fuglystick as far as I know you and I have never had any problems between us...so, I'm hoping you're not just going to pull the whole "you're sticking up for them" but, because I'm not. We're not best friends. We're not part of the same "group", they're here like anyone else and I don't count seniority as a free pass, I don't give a shit how long anyone's been here (If I did, I'd pretty much think that I rule the place)...I just don't see it like you do...evidently the mods don't either, it's no reason to insult them. I mean they did point out that by your own rules you'd have been reprimanded too, which illustrates that maybe that you're letting your pre-existing views on someone colour your thoughts on "how bad" the things they say to other people are, without realising that it's pretty easy to do yourself without any harm intended.
It seems like maybe MD got on your bad side a while ago...probably due to what you've considered to be malicious treatment of either yourself or others as new folk, but I will step in and say on numerous occasions I've seen you reciprocate in ways that'll only perpetuate the cycle. Why should YOU end it? Why should SHE?
Nobody's been seriously insulted or attacked, nobody's been character assassinated...
I think you're a good member here, but you're just taking this thing in circles.
Also - please watch what you say about "groups" you've linked. As well as MD and Elvis you're talking about pinkfloyd who's probably...never attacked anyone in her life, and Disease, one of our better and longest standing here - also a person who's seldom had any trouble with anyone.
If people arrive and can't cope with essentially the same reality that they would have to deal with in real life anywhere, well, really that's on them...I've seen legitimate issues acted upon.
My suggestion would be if you can't get along, ignore.
Making ongoing argument threads and mod insults etc, it's only going to get you banned, and it's not like you'll be seen as some martyr for the cause...it'll just be you not letting go...you haven't been seriously insulted, and you've given as much as you've got, so, isn't it time to just drop it before it goes in yet another circle?

Huh. Even when I pointed out four in this thread alone. I guess we'll find out when you try to rally the troll troops then, won't we.

(I was joking... LOL)

But I don't believe I was mentioned specifically.

Rally the troll troops? What the fuck are you on about?

Missed cheeba's post... quoted because it's right on.

I appreciate that cheeba.

That fact that it's better than it was in the past doesn't change a thing. Membership, and content, is suffering. Yes, there WILL be some noob who will sign up and immediately start a "who's better, Freddy or Jason" thread. There will be people who want to gush over Twilight, and people who'll want to argue that the Saw franchise is the greatest horror franchise of all time. And we'll all roll our eyes. That's natural when you've seen the same bull over and over again from people who have no idea what they're talking about.

That doesn't mean they CAN'T become a good poster. It means they rushed in without bothering to get a feel for the board, and made an ass of themselves. Instead of our self-appointed bouncers deciding who gets past the velvet rope and who doesn't, we should at least let new members get their feet wet, and see if they can float.

I'm sorry, I'm never going to see some sort of benefit to letting assholes act like assholes. This isn't a matter of a slip up; this is flat out flaming anyone that doesn't toe their line. "All good fun" "don't be a crybaby" "grow a spine" etc. etc. all boil down to one thing--"we're just a bunch of cunts." I know that's a badge of honor for some on this board, but it's also a forum killer, and leads to the stagnant swamp that these boards are.

As far as the moderators, they've had it in their power to assuage the trolling behavior all along, but did nothing about it. The sorry condition for these boards rests with them. I'm sure they are nice people, and they do keep the boards free of racists and spammers, but they haven't been moderating.

And this isn't a vendetta. There's the support in this thread for an end of the cuntery; I've had PMs as well. People are tired of trying to post in an acrimonious environment. For every one who speaks up, I'm sure there are three or four more who just don't want to get involved. That doesn't include the people who were run off before they even had a chance to contribute.

"Business as usual" is not good enough. The domain for this site is "horror.com"; there should be 500 people posting here every day. Instead, there's twenty or thirty who will venture here to post, because a handful of assholes want to retain the status quo.

I'm sure I didn't address all your points, cheeba, but I appreciate the time it took you to make your well thought out response.

You, like MD, do not have the luxury of a "joking" relationship with me. I know you would prefer to "joke" your way out of being a dick, and sweep it under the rug, but I don't think so.

Oh, almost forgot--

The individual members of MD's vanity experiment doesn't really mean all that much; it does speak volumes about how she sees her role on this board though, doesn't it?

A few months back the "evil trolls" MD & Posher weren't even regularly posting on the board & it didn't change the amount of new members so your point is void. There's not a big influx of new members because message boards just aren't that popular in general these days... banning me or those guys isn't going to change anything.

"Vanity Experiment" and "how she sees herself on this board"? You're totally deluded I feel sorry for you and everyone who buys into this shit you're spewing.

I think it's fair to say that MD has a very high opinion of herself. I also think it's safe to say that she enjoys forcing that opinion on everyone.

And if there's no "big influx" of people trying to join the board, isn't that even more reason to be civil to those that do?

In the end, we just have a handful of clowns on this board trying to justify being douchebags.

Show me a board where noobs posting shit like pretending to be Hannibal Lector isn't paid out.

You're obsessed :rolleyes:

I think you've got some deep seeded issues (like misogyny) that are coming to the surface in scapegoating her.

...and one overly dramatic fuckwit trying to be hero of the day.

That's simple and cheap. And the reasoning of a dullard.


Nope, just a guy who's not fond of douchebags. Sorry.

No it's really not. Anyone calling a woman a "cunt" and getting this bent out of shape directing the majority of scorn/scorn blame at the woman involved has problems. It's really obvious if you read between the lines "chief".

Well, I suppose I should be spreading it around to you and Posher more as well. I suppose that would make me a homophobe and a "punkophobe" too, wouldn't it?

Nope, just don't like douchebags. Sorry. It's sweet that you would think to play the "misogyny card" for her, though.

No member is deemed a troll unless and until he/she exhibits some sort of trolling behaviour. This place has seen more than its fair share of trolls in the past, and the forum being a ghost town today has nothing to do with new members getting their vanities or egos shot down, or senior members showing trolling symptoms because they want to see some sort of traffic going around these parts. It is like this because we made a hard choice couple of years back - do we need to have resident trolls who posted 200 times a day and got their post counts up to a thousand or ten thousand in no-time with nonsensical things (while indulging in board breaking tactics behind the curtains), or do we have a less-traffic board with fewer contributing members posting?

Needless to say, we chose the latter and kicked all those disruptive elements out. Word got out that trolls weren't welcome in HDC, and it spread rapidly. Since then, the traffic of this place went down by miles.

There were at least four huge waves of trolling within the past 5-6 years which caused many of our fine contributing members to leave the place, some of them quitting the Net entirely. That was the biggest loss HDC has faced. Ever. No amount of new members can cover that loss.

And we had ban-happy Mods too. Allmykids, who returned home drunk one night and banned any and every member she saw in her sight. Kpropain, who repeated that stunt awhile later. It doesn't take long to ban - just a click and you are off - but we take the whole picture into account, especially the afterwards part.

If we chose to ban every "mother-" or "bi-" or "cu-" or "ass-" poster in this site, trust me when I say this, only the Moderators will be left as the remaining active members.

And if that were true, you would have been banned the moment you called MD a "cu-" in the Women As Heroes thread too, Fuglystick. It would have happened anyway if we favored older members like MD. But since it didn't happen, and you are still here, it sends a pretty strong message to you, doesn't it?

We as mods have to take very difficult decisions. We discuss all this in our own private section of HDC (one which is hidden from everyone else's eyes), and the point of you reporting a post from MD has come up, and all of us have been through the said thread. The fact that both you and MD are still here shows that we Mods are still trying to keep the larger picture in mind and seeing if some sort of a truce can be hammered out between all of you.

MD has a high opinion of herself, and so does everyone else. Don't you have a high opinion of yourself and your knowledge in various fields of your life, including horror films? I do, pretty sure Elvis does too, NE has that in vintage horror, cheeba does, Doc Faustus does too in the talents he shows in his writings...its but natural. If you don't hold your own self in some sort of a self-esteem, it's difficult to survive. Behavioural symptoms of real life tend to flow into our online persona too, its a natural thing. At no point has any of us shown arrogance about that, I am sure of it.

We know you are a contributing member, and so is MD. Same goes for Elvis. That is what is saving you at the moment. OMCDave - even when being a good contributor to the Asian Horror section and having the luxury of being a senior member with over 10,000 posts couldn't save him, once his board -breaking tactics came out in the open. So don't think even for a moment that a senior member will not be banned just because he/she is senior - cheebacheeba was banned more than once (unjustly I might add).

People join everyday, and people are welcomed everyday. They then proceed to post around and see what reactions their posts gather from others, which then dictates their presence on a board - whether they choose to stay or go. There are people who joined a long time ago and still have around hardly 100-200 posts - Kemal, Weapon X, etc. You don't see them being flamed or made fun of, do you? Let's take newer members into account. For example, Psycho_d. Did anyone flame him? Nope. Because these are people who know what they are talking about. They are here to discuss horror, so they mainly stick to the Modern, Vintage and Asian Horror sections.

Its not about having balls. Its about having a clear mind and take sound judgements, taking the whole picture into account and thinking about the future. We are Moderators, not Judge Dredds. A definition of Moderation does not include execution on the spot. Its way, WAY different. It is one of the hardest and toughest jobs one can do anywhere - real life or the Net.

I like you, V. You're a valuable poster and a very nice man. I appreciate your lengthy, detailed, and eloquent response. I read it all.

However, lengthy deliberation when action is called for is Nero's concert.

In regards to the Women as Heroes thread, I retaliated, I did not instigate. If I had not retaliated, would you still be deliberating?

And even if it weren't for that thread, would it change the spirit of acrimony on this board?

There's been a lot of talk about the past. What bearing does the past have on members' behavior today? Does a board of fifty trolls in the past make a board of five trolls today acceptable? It doesn't take a lot of trolls to make posting unpleasant, just a few persistent ones.

And what, exactly, does trolling behavior consist of, in the eyes of the moderators? Flaming, belittling, and badgering new members does not qualify? If not, then I don't think the moderation staff should have any qualms about the other, non-belligerent, members informing the new members of their option to put the aggressors on ignore, reassure the new members that the aggressors do not speak for the board, and encourage the new members to enjoy the forums.

Wow, this thread makes me feel a bit bad about my general "douchebaggery" through the last 6 or 7 years. However, I don't feel it is justified to call out MD or Elvis. I'm pretty sure neither of them have ever liked me so i'm not "taking sides" or trying to "feed the fire", I just think this thread is the wrong way to go about things.

You have no idea what things were like when I was in my prime of being a dick. You think MD and Elvis are so terrible? Let me give you a list: Darth Bane, Monsterdad, myself(horace-pinker/sistinas amoung others), OMCdave, drunken Kpro, crazy AMK, Pluto, and I'm sure I've forgottren countless others. You weren't here for "dick pics" and "internet predators". You may think MD and Elvis are terrible members but they don't hold a candle to some of the monsters we've seen here.

On a final note, I've always found MD and Elvis to be amusing with their so called "douchebaggery". They amuse me as well as countless other members, so wouldn't that make them good contributing members?

And on a final note-Jason can kick Freddys ass.;)

And on that note- this topic has run its course.

Closing.