Your new your opinion doesn't count :p

Where was our LAW ENFORCEMENT monday?


Did they stop Cho Seung Hui's execution of 32 INNOCENT people?




Sick and evil people will find a way to get guns......no matter if they are legal or not.

The USA is #8 in murders with a firearm per capita while they're #24 in total murders. Take a country like Russia who is #5 in total muders and yet they're not even in the top 30 for murders with firearms. People would still kill each other, gun control wouldn't help a damn bit.


Yeah, let's give the government complete control over who can have weapons, they'll be fair. That's how they squash the people and increase government control.

Fuck the law enforcement. We have just as many cops that get women to suck them off to get out of tickets and sell guns to minors as we do "good" cops.

I find that very insulting. As far as I'm concerned, those "jackasses," for all their faults, were very enlightened and liberal people who created what became the greatest country in the world. Frankly, I think the world would be a far shittier place if they had never gotten together and had the balls and the brains to form this country.

The police are not legally required to protect you, nor are they usually capable of protecting you. I've lived in neighborhoods where the cops were afraid to go. Remember that hurricane New Orleans? One third of the cops deserted, and the average person was fucked. The cops will not protect you. The government will not protect you. You are on your own.

By the way, why don't you take a wild guess as to what group of people was the first in America to be forbidden from owning guns. Do you really think that was about public safety?

^ Joined the NRA last year

I bet it was those damn property owning white bastards!

The government-controlled gun policy has not done the squashed people of the UK any harm.

And I doubt very much that a lack of firearm to hand in a potentially violent situation will cause the same instant death to an individual. It's very easy to pull a trigger, much harder to swing a weapon - not to mention less likely to be fatal. Russia has its own agendas with regards to murder, America has others - and it is the gun culture, the glamour, the pride which leads to misuse and legal guns falling into the wrong hands.

Sounds like Kemal is issuing a call to arms for all vigilantes living in the Greatest Country in the World.

:eek:

:cool:

What is the population of the UK?




Isn't the UK "the land of milk and honey?":)

I agree totally. And I don't even care if you were meaning to be sarcastic, cuz like it or not, what you said is true.

I'm not sure that potentially drunk (on their off hours) college students with guns is a good idea, but at least maybe arm the faculty. They would at least have had a chance then. The shooter obviously didn't care that guns were banned on the University grounds.

I do strongly support the 2nd Ammendment. Laws only take the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. Criminals don't give a shit about the laws. Granted, nothing prevented him from buying the guns, but surely the signs on the doors stating that guns are banned on the University grounds should have stopped him (NOT!). Spare me!

OH! Here's an idea... How about putting locks on the inside of classroom doors! Then people wouldn't have to block the doors with their bodies. Duh. :confused: :mad:

America's not the UK, in fact I think there was some sort of fight that made sure of that... damn violence.

Wasn't greenland involved in that?:rolleyes:

Nope. The "UK" wasn't involved really. If it hadn't happened we WOULD be, NOW, a part of the UK. Unless we disagreed with parliment's decision in 1833...

looks like americans are the only ones who can't grasp how detrimental to their own society their gun laws are. i suppose if the majority of americans want guns to be this accessible then let them. then, if a nutter goes mental and wastes some innocents then its just a case of 'you gotta break a few eggs to make an ommelette'. it seems that the americans on this thread aren't sure if they want guns cause they wanna hunt or if its to preserve the constitution and to make the government think twice before it exercises further measures of control. lets face it, as soon as they tighten their gun laws and have a gun amnesty they'll lose the gun culture. then it won't be in joe publics mindset to use guns to solve his problems. its a lot harder to kill someone with cold steel. i bet the parents of the dead students in VA aren't that bothered about tweaking the constitution

The world is on it's way to hell in a handbasket. In this day & age, I question the sanity of anyone not wanting to have a gun.

You need to keep in mind that if the US just outlawed guns one day, only the legal, registered guns would get turned in and that'd be by the good, responsible gun owners. The guns owned by criminals are generally not on the books anyways & I can't imagine them all lining up to turn them in.

So if we were to take away our gun rights, all that would be doing is preventing the decent folks from having a way to protect themselves should some nutjob (that didn't turn in his gun) kick in their front door one night with the intent to kill your whole family or rape your wife.

"If guns were outlawed, then only outlaws would have guns."

Well, it's significantly less than the USA, but about double that of Canada and still with less shootings. We'd rather talk things through I guess.

No, indeed America isn't the UK - nor is it Russia, yet out of all these countries America is home to the most gun crime, right up there with war-torn and drug producing nations.

Interesting mention of The War of Independence - perhaps it is that America has never really laid down its guns. Understandable perhaps, since maybe this manufactured country has yet to calm down and find its own identity. This might explain the seemingly forced booming of national pride and bombastic nature of celebration and entertainment. Who knows what the future holds?

A little like Cho Seung-hui, who in his final video has again highlighted the disturbing obsession with both religion and guns in the Land of the Free, as he talks about his hatred for success and hedonism.

Thank you bwind! A voice of reason!

BTW, one of the first thing Nazi's did was unarm the Jewish people so they could no longer defend themselves. Looky at the result of that whole charming disarmiment (I know I probably spelled that wrong).

And to respond to someone else's earlier comment, YES, out of my cold dead hands. Just don't come around my home meaning any harm.

You know, when watching aliens must joke about the Earth destroying itself... you can bet which corner of it they've got their eye on.

:D

http://www.shipbrook.com/karen/blog/images/kang.gif

You know watching your posts, it's no wonder your not liked here :D

yah bitch fight

Only by the reprobates and the guilty, my friend....


;)

Everybody likes a little Pressure now and then.

Nope, but I bet if a few of the people in the school building had been excersing their right to bear arms, they probably would have stopped him. In fact, if Cho knew that other people probably did have their own guns, he might have thought twice about the whole fiasco in the first place. The restrictions we already have in place on guns (not being able to have them in public places) probably, on some root level, allowed this whole situation to take place to begin with. Guns were not allowed on VT campus, yet this psychotic rule-breaking dude had 2. That's a perfect example on a small scale of what would likely be the case nationwide if they tried banning guns at this point. The bad guys do what they want & have their guns, the good people follow the rules and become fish in a barrel for the psychopath.

Not true deary. :p ;)

Yah, what he said!

Damn bwind, I never realized how much on the same wavelength we were. :) :eek:

nicely said Bwind
This is an ongoing debate everywhere..and still innocent ppl are being butchered in order to satisfy 'the rights' of law abiding citizens who continue to arm themselves.
According to his students police check..he too was a law abiding citizen who just lost it for some unexplainable reason.

:)



For the record, I don't have anything against making guns more difficult to obtain either. Current laws are too lax in that department, but I'm a MILLION % against an outright banning of guns to the general public. In addition to the already in place background checks, I'd suggest mandatory psychiatric evaluation & competency testing as well as classes and training (rifle or handgun specific) to educate gun owners.

The withdrawal of the general right to own and shoot guns would reduce your gun crime in the long term, since this would stem the flow of illegal weapons.

There would be less chance of a person going beserk with a weapon, so less need for you to have one.

A national amnesty would of course not remove all illegal weapons, but their numbers would thin significantly and the gun culture slowly change.

Perhaps it is too late for Americans however, who through deep rooted feelings of insecurity will continue to destroy themselves out of fear of being destroyed - a violent country like this seems destined to remain that way.

Let's just hope they keep the really big guns out of it...

:eek:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/p..._explosion.jpg

HERE!
Right there, where I said "HERE', that is where you lose me. Banning guns would not magically make all the people that are bad and already have them disarm. Nor would it stop them or future bad people from buying or selling them on the black market. The only flow it would stem would be the regular joe who wouldn't be willing to break the law to get one.

Drugs are illegal here, but I could probably find anything you wanted with a few phone calls. *shrug* Just because something is illegal does not make it go away.



A psycho is a psycho. People use weapons other than guns all the time. If someone snaps & they wanna kill someone, they find a way.



We'll take it under consideration, but let me tell you... Iran & North Korea are pushing their luck. ;)

I do agree to an extent to what you say, Pressure. But its not the insecurity which drives a person to get a gun. If that was the case, all geeks and pessimistic people would be gun owners in the first place.
Post 9/11, this number has increased significantly because the common American citizen's first priority is safety of his family, his wife, his child and his parents.
And with Bin Laden somewhere out there calling the shots and our own administration unable to stop him, he has no choice, actually.

I quote from New Yorkers Against Gun Violence:-

'WHERE DO ILLEGAL GUNS COME FROM?

Virtually every illegally possessed firearm recovered in New York State began its life as a legal product, manufactured or imported by a company licensed by the federal government and sold by a licensed dealer. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF) has determined that there are multiple streams carrying guns downstream into the illegal market: corrupt sales by licensed dealers and distributors, straw purchases by individuals or rings, unregulated, multiple or unlimited sales in states with weak gun laws, sales at gunshows, private sales, and theft.

GUNS FLOW SWIFTLY FROM THE LEGAL TO THE ILLEGAL MARKET

The flow of firearms downstream into the illegal market is rapid. 70% of guns entering the stream of illegal trafficking are new. 30-40% of all crime guns traced by the federal government pass in less than three years from a legitimate sale by a licensed dealer into the wrong hands at a crime scene. Illegal weapons pour even more swiftly into the hands of youth: the BATF estimated that as many as 54% of the illegal firearms recovered in connection with persons ages 18-24 were sold by a federal firearms licensee less than three years before.'

Conclusion: illegal guns are primariy, and rapidly, sourced from legal sales. Therefore stopping legal sales will indeed stem the flow of illegal weapons. Those already circulating the underground will be offered an amnesty, then continuing policing and a cleanup operation will gradually reduce what firearms remain.

Drugs: if they were all legal, you would find a lot more junkies about - good for society?

Again, it takes more effort to use a blade or bar against an individual than to pull a trigger - and the results are less likely to be fatal.

The armed 'safety' of the American family is borne from fear, which is generated from the right to bear arms. Really, Americans haven't stopped shooting since they were first made.

I just heard on the radio, school all across the country are getting bomb threats now. Guess what marks this friday ? The ann. of Columbine, and they were trying to decide to cancel classes or not.

First try and think logically and not emotionally.


Here is the problem with America coming from an american. We as a society have fostered a public of narcissism and cowardace. Everyone is concerned about one thing themselves and noone else. This is what fosters situations like this Cho wacko.

The other thing is we are a nation of cowards. Someone comes in with a gun and we cower in the corner like sheep in a burning barn while the damn barn door is wide open waiting for the farmer to come and save us all.

Sorry brothers and sisters it isnt going to happen. Not one of those people with the exception of courageous professor tried to stop this clown. They were all too concerned with their own safety and too scared to do anything to try and stop it.

I guess 9/11 didnt teach us anything. In any situation FIGHT BACK. Our survival as a society depends on it.

I am not ready to die as much as the next person but if the situation arises I am not going to sit there and just take it. Someone comes to kill me, family or friends they have got a fight coming. SHit I teach my 6 and 8 year olds that. Its sad that this is the way the world is but its something we all have to face.

About guns. No amount of banning is going to stop what happened. Cho was determined to kill and the students at VT were denied the right to have the tools to defend themselves. I am not saying firearm ownership is for everyone its not. In fact I think iif you want a firearm then you need to have a mentor to guide you in the proper use and safety of a firearm.

Law enforcement is there to solve the crime after the fact. They dont have the time or resources to protect everyone. Nor do they have an obligation to do so.

Everyone has an obligation for thier own personal responsibility and safety.

Well banning guns now cannot fix crimes in the past, nor some that are destined to happen in the future - but it will gradually reduce the availability of weapons to people like Cho.

I was wondering myself how he managed to kill 32 people on his own - surely somebody must have tried to seize him and grab his weapon(s)? I fucking would - if he came near he'd better not miss because he wouldn't get a second chance.

Surely with a campus the size of Virginia Tech, there should be allowances for a small amount of 'on site' arms in the wake of these college shooting trends? These could remain under the control of qualified security/police operating on the campus, even after a public firearms ban.

From what I've read he didn't... almost everybody shot (including the survivors were shot three times). You're right though, how did he do all that, find time to mail his video and crap, and then go back to shooting!? I blame rap music.

NBC should not have shown any of his video either, allowing him the final word even from beyond the grave. But principals won't get in the way of commerce and a good scoop.

He also mentioned Columbine, and perhaps the gun debate should steer round to media coverage which is a clear factor in further 'copycat' incidents.

He shot 2 people in the dorms, then went back to his room & got the package & went to the post office. Then he returned to campus & went into the classroom building & proceded firing. I don't know how much everyone knows about guns, but one of the guns he used was a Glock which can be reloaded in literally just a couple seconds. The shooting would have been nearly nonstop so it's not like there would have been any "good" time for someone to try to stop him. Doing so would have almost surely resulted in getting shot.

If he was rushed by five or six people from every direction then he would have been stopped. I personally would have thought, "I'll probably get shot anyway so I may as well try and charge him...".

Yeah, well that's the sorta thing that is much easier said than done. I'm sure anyone in that situation is just reacting on adrenaline & instinct.

Unless he had an electric forcefield around him, I don't see how some brave souls couldn't have attacked him and pinned him down.

But apparently the gun being seen as the harbringer of death on this day has resulted in only blind panic or pleads of mercy.