It's also the sound my cat makes when she gets a hairball.

Re: Re: Re: Re: What is Goth?
 

Yes. It was all inspired by the Visigoth architecture. In the 20's it was very apperent in the cinema.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is Goth?
 

i'm really confused now - after looking up Visigoth and visigoth architecture ..

i dont understand how this became whatever goth is today ..
or how an ancient peoples architecture inspired a fashion/intellectual style as how you defined it.

i guess i'll have to do more reading.

The archetecture inspired the style. Just like how you have Modern architecture and Modern style of dress. The Goth to it farther and created an actual image. Think Edgar Allen Poe, H.P. Lovecraft. Think old cinema like Nosferatu, Pandoras Box, Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, ect. They all have gothic elements.
It became a diluted mainstream thing in the 80's, but it definetly existed long before then.

But they're not the same thing. They're two completely different styles, movement, what ever you want to call it. The name and some of the imagery was co-oped, but that doesn't make them the same thing.

I do not think that they are completely different. Lets take the Grunge movement in the 90's, everyone here should still be able to remember that. Credited for starting it, Kurt Cobain. Now lets say that 10 years from now, Britiney Spears starts dressing grunge, still does the same crappy pop music, but dresses grunges and adopts the attitude. Would you say that A) The new "Grunge music" is a diluted, commercialized, pathetic attempt at a retro revival that is an insult to the actual roots of grunge, or B) A totally different, new, thing that borrowed a bit.
The only difference is that no one who was a part of the original American Goth movement is still alive to point this out to us.

i'd say C) she's trying to look grundge but she's still singing 'lowest common demominator pop'

i think that you can look a thing or you can be a thing ..

to look a thing, you just adapt the dress code.

to be a thing you embrace everything that goes with it .. music, clubs, attitude ..


whatever goth was - its a long time ago and it has become something completely different and identifiable by the music style, the fashion, the attitude ... the lifestyle.


the only real influence is all things dark and depressing.

You know you're a goth when :


1) you and your friends feel the need to dress up in your goth clothes and take pictures in the cemetary.

2) it's 99 degrees out and you're in 4 layers of black garments

3) you think it would be cool to be a vampire.

4) every night in your favorite club would be a halloween party anywhere else

5) you take photos of yourself made to look like you're dead in the bathtub

any combination of the above will qualify ..


seriously - there may have been another type of goth before - but this is undeniably what it has become now ..

right on, i concur...

"seriously - there may have been another type of goth before - but this is undeniably what it has become now .."



That is the point I have been trying to make all along. That goth is not what it used to be. That it was changed, it regressed, its a knock-off of a quality product.
Think about how when you here someone talking about how awesome "The Fog" is and they go on and on, you try to say something to them about it and they're like "what"? Then you realize they saw the remake, the horribly diluted, unrecognizable remake, and are completely unaware that John Carpenter made an original. From that generation on, when most people refer to "The Fog" it will be the crappy remake instead of the original. And something that was great will, yet agian, be lost, thanks to crappy knock-offs.

You're comparing goth kids to people with bad taste in movies?:D

Then it's a mote point. Why even make it?
I'm sure the 'goth' of the 1800's didn't appear out of nowhere, that it evolved and borrowed for something before it. Maybe some people then thought it was a cheap knock of whatever it might have been.
In the end, things change. For better or worse. That's life. Static things grow stall and die. Bitching and moaning about it won't change this.
Perhaps you should accept this and live in the now and not 80 - 200 years ago.

No. I'm comparing two things that used to be something else, but if the majority of people here seem to really enjoy the knock offs, then go right ahead, just as long as you dont think that they are original.
I'm not "bitching and moaning". I think that I just offend all the people here in which the point hit to close to home. I'm sorry to have burst your bubble. Your in no way orignial.
The only point that I was trying to make is that I'm sick of knock-offs, in whatever forms they take. You dont have to agree with me, but atleast give me decent feedback, or stop posting on this thread.

No, you stop posting on my thread!

And you are original? I've heard these kind of arguements before. Some people just can move with the times. All thing come out of something else. Almost nothing springs up from nothing, even your 1800's 'goth' had influences.
And you didn't burst my bubble, and I'm certainly not offened. It takes more then you to offend me. I don't like associating myself with the scene, but I accept it for what it is.
I never claimed to be original, just that I dress like I do and listen to the music I do because I genuinely like it, with is more then I can say for some people.
I'm sorry if my posts aren't up to your lofty standands, but I'll damn well post where ever I want.

One final question, regardless or the"times" or "having to change with time", which I agree with, but do you think that modern goth is better?

I don't think one is better then the other, just different. Things don't always have to be better or worse.

I find it kinda disturbing that you cant take a stand on it. Do you generally go with the flow on things, or are there somethings that you do feel strongly about? I'm not trying to be rude, I've just met very few people to feel that way about things.

is this kind of thing really worth taking a stand on ?

i can think of better things to focus that kind of energy on other than a fashion sensibility.

Exactly.
And I do have very strong feeling on many thing, and take a stand or side on things I feel are important. This is not one of those things for me, but obviously it is for you. I just doesn't matter enough to me, so I don't sit around measuring the pros and cons of the two 'goths'.

well, one look at me and its pretty obvious i've never given (male) fashion 10 seconds of thought.


always had a keen interest in what the ladies were wearing though :D

It's true, all urge wears is a sailor hat and a fake mustache.:p

dont be shy .. you can mention the leopard skin thong..

where on his body does he wear the fake mustache?

Underneath his balls, he paints pupils on each nut. Cuz, come on... that's so fuckin' ungoth.

That depends, does he use eyeliner on them?

Only cuz he hates his parents.

Why is this shit in the "upcoming horror MOVIES" section?

because it is

because general is filled to overflowing?

Apparently they really really reeeeeeeeally want to be scary.:rolleyes:

Everything is worth knowing where you stand on it.

bah i just recently wrote a paper about this subject in my opinion there is no "goth" "punk" "jock" its all labels that society gives us the people who want to act on it then so be it..society created it society must break it?

i hear the same arguement when it comes to music ...movies ..etc.

isnt Horror a label then ?

write a paper on what brought you to a HORROR web site instead of a movie web site.

agreed.

speaking of goth - and i have nothing against them - i saw one of my favorite sights today - it was a BEAUTIFUL sunny and crisp fall day and i was in the park with my dog and a goth walks by in his heavy leather black trenchcoat, dyed black hair, various other S&M Leather accoutrements - it just made me giggle

this has nothing to do w/ the above arguement... these are just the random thoughts that bounce around in my head.

liz had a friend named cedric, whom she had a crush on. she would ask cedric out all the time, but he was too busy reading nieche and taking vows of silence. finally he came around and realized liz's feelings for him. he set a date and was to pick her up at 7pm. cedric started to get ready around 6pm, but to his dismay he had so many layers of clothes, accessories, and make-up to put on he didn't leave the house until 8:30pm. for liz this was the last straw, she hooked up w/ a dapper young chap named patrick (yours truly), while cedric sodomized himself w/ his dog collar in disgust. fin.

Moral of the story: Dog collars don't belong up your butt.

well, goth used to be about good music, drugs, clubs , dark clotheing, and great hair. But it has been consumed by the corparations a long time ago, so "Thanks for Nothing" Ministry!

well, acccording to some .. goth is now a depressed asshole of a kid who thought life was worthless so he shot up a Montreal college
campus killing 2 (including his asshole self) and serioulsly injuring several others (4 critically)

i know this isnt goth .. but its making the news - prepare for a goth backlash because people who dont like it or are afraid of it (god knows why) are going to paint everyone with the same brush on this one.

Re: What is Goth?
 

I agree with you completely.