I think i will just pop in to say what newb posted was a fucking riot and I am thrilled to see that Austin is okay.


Back to the rhetoric and arguing. Sorry to interrupt :D:p

I don't want to argue...I just want to point something out...

I, personally think that morals are just a little important in a president......And "ONLY to his wife"?.......I truly believe that if a person is disloyal and dishonest to the person that they made a vow to love and be faithful to, and also had a child with, that person would PROBABLY be dishonest and disloyal to a bunch of strangers that didn't mean shit to him (the American people)...I could be wrong, but I can't see him caring more about us, than about his wife...And child (yes, she suffered too...He didn't seem to care)

The bottom line is, if you'll cheat and lie to one person, you'll do it to everyone else...I think that's the connection that everyone fails to see when they say that's none of our business...Or maybe everyone just doesn't WANT to see (cuz it's really pretty damned apparent).....When someone says "That's his 'personal' life"...What exactly does that tell you about what kind of 'person' he IS?

He has proven that he would lie to and cheat the American people, as well...Several times...Not just about affairs, but...Have you ever heard anything about last minute, back door pardons (Which were ridiculously illegal, as he didn't follow ANY of the proper channels, because he knew they would be denied...We have a system of 'checks and balances' just so that people couldn't pull the kind of sneaky, underhanded shit he pulled...Why do you think they call him 'slick'?)?....Mark Rich sound familiar?...How about Whitewater?...Stealing everything in white house when they moved out, including furniture, carpets, curtains, and even light fixtures?...Well, he said that he removed the carpets because they were very badly stained...I can't imagine how they got that way:rolleyes: *cringes*...And, of course the rest of the thefts he blamed on Hillary....They DID end up returning most of it, though...Ya know, Clinton may have actually been telling the truth about the carpets, cuz when the cleaning people came in to clean and paint the whitehouse when the Clintons moved out, they said the place was absolutely filthy...But, anyway.....I could give you a list of lies and deception for his own personal gain that would be longer than your leg, so I'll just stop here...

No, Sweetheart...Facts are not debatable...He lied under oath...Then later admitted that he lied...

How about the fact that Clinton was a great artist....don't that count for nothing?

http://www.roachcam.ca/images/stupid...onpainting.jpg

Well...Ya gotta give the devil his due, eh?

And you honestly think that the democrats are any better??? I know a whole bunch of democrats that would love to trample my rights. Every single amendment in the constitution. First they want to take away the 2nd amend. so they can easily control us and then work their way on down from there.

I choose to own firearms. Schumer, Feinstein, Obama, Boxer, Durbin and a host of others are against my choice.

Its for the children.

Politcians are what they are. Corrupt and do only one thing, work to get themselves elected and then pay back the fatcats that got them there. They dont give a FOOK about the working man.

Clinton was a lying sack of dolphin phelgm.

Bush is a lying sack of Black Angus phelgm.

Not much difference.

Either way we lose. Each time more than one half of the country fell for their ruse.

And as long as JoeSixpak can watch the game on Sunday, drink a beer and masterbate to porn on the internet things aint ever going to change.

Government is all about control Republicrat or Demican.

Vote from the rooftops. It only takes one voice to start a revolution.

Oh wait I am too busy that day. Maybe some other patriot can take care of it for me.

End of Rant-back to non-existance and tinfoil hats.

There is no review of presidential pardons.

Well I guess that makes it OK then:rolleyes:

Hurricane Katrina says hi.

What would you propose?

Here he comes, here comes speedracer
He’s a demon on wheels
He’s a demon and he’s gonna be chasing after someone
He’s gaining on you so you better look alive
He’s busy revving up the powerful mach-5
And when the odds are against him and there’s dangerous work
You can bet your life speedracer will see it through

Go speedracer, Go speedracer Go speedracer, go!

He’s off and flying as he guns his car around the track
He’s jamming down the pedal like he’s never coming back
Adventure’s waiting just ahead!

Go speedracer!
Go speedracer!
Go speedracer, Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats right Bush prayed to Poseidon to release the Kracken on the city of Joppa, oops I mean New Orleans.

Let each county in every state have one vote from the total votes of the county, majority rules.

Every blue state in the nation had predominately red counties except the ones centered around hi population centers.

And what do you know thats where all the poor people live. Just another way for us right wing wackos to take away your precious right to choose.

I say they either go by the popular vote or each state is worth one and the first to 26 wins.

More importantly, What would you propose??


and what would charlie do??

a BJ is worse then sending people to a War that 60% plus of the Citizens don't agree with ? Come on!

I am guessing you've never cheated before... ?

I am not even a democrat ! I have never ever voted Democrat. I come from a very strong ring wing republican family. I am pro-choice and I want as much freedom as possible without laws controling everday life. Anti-war, Pro-peace. I can't stand nationalism. So by default, I am as anti-republican as you can get. :D

But yes, they are all crooks.

I think the point was neither of them are trustworthy.

My point is one trust could be a lot more dangerous and deadly.

Nope...Never needed to...If I wanted to be with someone else, that meant to me that I really didn't wanna be with the person I was with...And that was exactly what I TOLD the person I was with......I really can't see any reason for cheating...ever...

Exactly

Like I said...There was a LOT more going on, by way of deceit, than just cheating on his wife...

BUT...Dishonesty and disloyalty are not good qualities in ANY aspect...And it extends to everything the person does...It's a part of their character, and not a good part...



BTW...I love that we can disagree and discuss things without getting stupid about it :cool:

Welcome to the world of politics. Lying and cheating are apart of the gig. hahaha, but some lies cost lifes.

Popular vote is one good option...

Or how about this.... (I think Colorado is actually considering this.)

Split the electoral votes from each state by percentage of people that vote either way...

Let me explain... Say a state has 10 Electoral votes. 60% of the stae votes democrat, 40% votes republican. 6 of that states votes go to the democrat, 4 to the republican.

That would be a HUGE step in the right direction. Because as it is right now, if you are a democrat living in a state that always votes republican (like Texas or something) then your vote is worthless. You may as well stay home on election day because your vote isn't going where you want it to anyways.

Democrats and rebulicans do the same thing here. They both have their minds set before any given issue even arises.



That's because I was pointing out where you were inaccurate. England's currency is stronger than ours, so there was no need to mention it. You had it right.



Calling them fascist would be MUCH more appropriate than calling them nazis in my eyes.



I have nothing good to say about HMO's here in the US. IF there are bigger crooks than politicians (That's a big IF), it's them. All I was really saying there was that the Canadian 'free' healthcare system isn't nearly as great as I often hear it made out to be.



Obviously, since we are forced to only have 2 parties to select from, people are naturally forced to gravitate to one side or the other depending on the issue. I lean right on some issues and left on others. But in the overall scope of things, I realize they are both crooked parties controlling out government. They refuse to allow any third parties to even get into the race with any decent chance of winning. If Nader ever had any shot of winning, he'd have had my support in a heartbeat, but he didn't have a chance because the Dems and Repubs keep him out. (He wasn't even on the televised debates or even the ballot in some states.) Anyways, you should practice what you preach because you've been hanging from Clinton's dong this whole thread while saying that you are bipartisan too.


The military is comprised of volunteers, a massive amount of which signed up AFTER 9-11 knowing damn well they'd be going to combat.

BR already covered this. It's not debatable. He lied under oath and then admitted it later on. He should have been impeached.

Lying under oath, no matter what you are lying about, is called perjury. They both commited exactly the same crime.

To my knowledge, Bush hasn't commited any felonies while in office. Clinton did. Clinton also never had to deal with half the shit Bush did. It's a matter of opinion, but I wouldn't say either one of them are ANYWHERE near a perfect president no matter who you compare them too. (Except maybe Hitler.)

I think a point system, like that, would be the best option...

I don't think strictly going by popular vote is a good idea, because politicians would then only campaign in urban areas...

A good bit of the stuff he's had to deal with is because of himself.

Okay, maybe fascist is a better word for you right-wingers. haha. Since, we have made our points. There is nothing left to talk about.... for now. But still, look at this picture. here is proof !

http://www.funny-games.biz/pictures/...itler-bush.jpg

Oh, you big bad anarchist you....you're SO cool:rolleyes:

NOw that's pretty funny.

Well, to a certain extent, yes (Iraq War mainly.). But 9/11 wasn't his fault. (And immediately after it, the majority of the population was pro war on terror.) And neither is this Hurricane Katrina mess now his fault.

That's an excellent point. It would be a bad idea because that rural part of the country is a lot bigger than we in the urban areas realize or care to acknowledge, but you are probably right.

True, but the heat he's getting from the shitty response is his fault.

I gotta disagree with that. I think most of the heat was (correctly) placed on the director of FEMA and Bush acted pretty quickly in replacing that dude.

His public image is definately taking a hit because of it, but I kinda get the feeling that it's a lot of democrats looking for anything and everything they can to pin on him and make him look worse than he makes himself look.

The slow response wasn't his really his fault, it was FEMA's because that's who is supposed to respond to stuff like that and it was also the Governor of Louisiana's fault because they waited a week before asking for federal help.

Actually...The chain of command for major disasters goes like this:

Mayor: It's the mayor's responsibility to assess the situation and act first, utilizing the police force, and other city agencies...Usually taking on the responsibilty of taking preventative measures...Levies should have been reinforced, cities evacuated (mandatorially), power stations shut down to avoid fires, electrocution, and more potential damage, etcetera...No preventative measures were taken in this case....SO, then it would be the mayor's responsibility to act AFTER the fact, helping to evacuate people, securing the city, etcetera...

When the task is too much for the mayor to handle, which understandably it CLEARLY was...The mayor then has to turn over the job to the...

Governor: The governor, once contacted by the mayor, would then have the SAME responsibilities as the mayor (before or after the disaster, depending on when he/she was contacted by the mayor)...But, he would have much more power and assistance (state agencies) at his disposal to do a more effective job...The governor failed to act appropriately, or he was simply contacted too late to be of much use...

If the governor cannot properly handle the situation...He then has to request help from the...

President/Government: The president is unable (by restriction of law, and the 'chain of command') to respond to a situation unless and until assistance is requested from the governor...His hands are tied, until a formal request is made...In this case, that request took way too long, and seriously delayed action...

Once the President/Government's assistance IS finally requested, the president has EVERY agency at his disposable...Including the military and FEMA, among others....In this case, FEMA was overwhelmed with the responsibility of handling the task, their 'assistance' was woefully inadequate...And again, much too little, much too late

The ONLY thing that the President CAN do without a request, is declare an area as a 'natural disaster' which is necessary to achieve funding for, and acquire assistance (including the military, FEMA, etcetera) for the area....In THIS case...Bush declared the area as a natural disaster BEFORE the hurricane even hit, so that when the time came, everything would be ready to send out forces, and try to do as much as possible as soon as possible...But, he still had to wait for that request from the governor before he could act...That HAD to be frustrating...Government red tape had SO much to do with the slow, ineffective response...


I'm not sharing any opinions here (except that it had to be frustrating, and it was all too little, too late)...I'm not bashing OR defending anyone....I'm only trying to inform everyone of the 'chain of command'

OK, you're right it's FEMA's fault. I'm not one of those people who just throw all blame on Bush, I actually find it rather ridiculous that people can think that every problem an entire country has is one mans fault who for the most part can't do anything with out consent. And I'd like to add that I don't blame the mayor for anything.

I dont have a link to the article, but I can sum it up pretty well.

The federal gummit had given money to the state of La. that was earmarked to be used for repairs and reinforcements of the levies in New Orleans.

In true Chicago democrat fashion or Republican governor of Illinois fashion if you prefer, lets face it theyre all fuckin crooks, used that money to buy a 2002 Crown Victoria, a trenchcoat and umbrella from LLBean, send a bunch of politicos to Germany and a whole host of other things.

As usual when blame time comes no one accepts it and just points the finger at someone else.

Mayor Nagin has NO exp. in politics and Gov. Blanco looked like a deer in the headlites before the federallies came in to save the day.

There is a chain of command and a chain of where the blame should be laid. I think the answers are obvious.

The reason why I don't put that much blame on the mayor is because Friday night it was a cat2-3 with only a 20% chance of hitting New Orleans(we've had hurricanes with an 85% chance miss). Then Saturday afternoon it was a cat4 with the eye heading directly for us, he ordered the evacuation Sunday morning. Even if he would've done it at the moment of discovering the new info on the storm I don't think it would've mattered much because for the most part everyone that could get out did and the people left behind either didn't want to go(even though I do, it's hard to feel sorry for 'em) or couldn't go. Is there blame to be put on him? yes, but not that much imo, certainly not as much as the governor or feds.

If national officials are incapable of rising to the occasion, the responsibility and duty of local officials goes beyond simply pointing that out.

its not up to the national authority to solve the problem. It starts at the local level and then goes up from there.

IMO I wouldnt depend on the gummit to do a damn thing. Like I have said before, ever deal with the gummit for anything????

Subject: Yes Mr. Gummit I need help.

Gummit: OK fill out this form in triplicate, then go stand in that line over there.

Subject: I dont have a pen.

Gummit: The line to fill out a form to get a pen is over there.

Subject: How do I fill out a form to get a pen if I dont have one to fill it out??

Gummit: Sir dont take that tone with me. I am going to lunch. Back in 2 hours.

I think the time for finger pointing and pinning the blame on individuals, state gov., fed. gov is over. Mistakes were made...most of which were probably preventable. However, now that we're aware of what went wrong...let's learn from the mistakes which were made to ensure that something like this doesn't happen again.

To be honest, it shouldn't have happened....not after 9/11...we should be more prepared for attacks on our homeland, whether it be because of a terrorist or a hurricane. I'm angered by what occured, and also pretty concerned about the message our un-preparedness sends to other countries, terrorists, and most importantly...the citizens of the United States.

However, we can't turn back time and change what occurred. Expending energy fighting over whose to blame does no good after a while...that energy should be spent righting the wrongs...making things better now.

There is alot of good that is being done to help the people of New Orleans and the surrounding areas...it seems to get over-shadowed by all of the bad.

That's because there's far more bad than good.

Have you ever considered writting speeches? No offense but you sounded just like a politician.

And on another note.


I just heard on the radio that the debit cards that the Red Cross handed out were being used in a strip club in Atlanta.

Cograts Hellboy, you just gave someone 350 lapdances.


Glad to see that those donations are being put to good use.
:rolleyes:

Handout is what you get fron the government, a handup is what you get from a friend.

You're right...there's definately been more bad than good going on...I agree with that completely. I just think that the focus should now be on what good IS being done...or what CAN be done...rather than to keep focusing on all the negative.

And no....I've never considered writing speeches or getting involved in politics...I'm a moral person ;):p