Bush or Kerry

[KRUGERKID13]

of the 2 which one would you like to see elected

[KRUGERKID13]

My vote goes to Bush


Lets not let this get out of hand like the other thread

[wufong]

it's non of business. lol

[ShankS]

errrmm neither, I'm from the Uk:D

[Gothic-chick]

George Bush

he's getting my vote again

[friday13thfan]

kerry kerry kerry

[Stingy Jack]

Kerry. Maybe somebody can get in there and do something about the time-bomb that is the "No Child Left Behind" act before we ruin the education of any more of our nation's children.

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Kerry. Maybe somebody can get in there and do something about the time-bomb that is the "No Child Left Behind" act before we ruin the education of any more of our nation's children.

[sarcasm]Hey, bush wasnt left behind, and now look, a straight c (because daddy paid for it) student got to be president[/sarcasm}

No offense to bush supporters out there, bu i tink he is an immoral, BAD person who cares only about enfoprcing his own beliefs. fuck him.

[KRUGERKID13]

yeah i hate people who fight for what they believe in what we need is another spineless democrat like clinton back in office.

[Arioch]

No offense to bush supporters out there, bu i tink he is an immoral, BAD person who cares only about enfoprcing his own beliefs. fuck him.

Agreed.

yeah i hate people who fight for what they believe in what we need is another spineless democrat like clinton back in office.

I was under the impression that a president was supposed to do whats best for the COUNTRY and its PEOPLE....not his own beliefs:rolleyes:

And if a "spineless democrat like clinton" was in office he would be MUCH more concerned with getting his dick sucked than sending more of our kids to die in a war started under false pretenses...then continued....under more false pretenses....

Maybe its just me, but if my choices are between felatio and war....felatio gets my vote every time;)

[Egekrusher]

Thanks Arioch.

My vote goes to Kerry.

If you really think Bush should remain in office, consider this.

His own cabinet members don't want him back in, along with the former head of the CIA, the current head of the FBI, and most of congress. If you don't believe me, look it up online. Most of his security counsel despises what he has done to this country .

[yourlastmistake]

My votes for Bush


Democrats and socialism go hand in hand. Kerry talks out both sides of his face.What ever the popular consesus at the time is the stance he takes. All he cares about is the vote not what he believes in. Maybe he will follow in clinton's footsteps and let this nation be black mailed by other thug leaders like kim chong il.

You democrats blame bush for nafta when in reality it was the clinton administration that started it all. I'm tired of people hammering bush about the war.Let me get this straight, democrats think as a leader of nations in this world we are expected to help other nations with finacial, health, and security aid. We arent expected to just help but be the savoirs of the world but we can't protect ourselves? Im sick of this shit. What did we do to deserve 9/11?


How quick people forget.Dont you realize those people[radical muslims]dont think the same way as we do.They spend their whole lives trying to kill non-muslims. They are already here.It's
just a matter of time before they strike again.You have to go aboard to try and stop it instead of waiting for it to come to you.


I'm glad Bush has the balls to do whats right for the future of not only this nation but the world. Not just base his actions on what's popular with the masses like several past presidents have done thus getting us in most of the situations we are in today. F.... the UN its obvious they're not and cannot control anything.


BUSH/CHENEY 2004

[Arioch]

What did we do to deserve 9/11?

Its really a matter of how other countries see us. Believe it or not Americans are pretty well despised across the globe. Other countries tend to think we are overly obsessed with ourselves (as a country) and i definitly agree with that....

You have to go aboard to try and stop it instead of waiting for it to come to you.

Bush USED 9/11 to go after SADAM who...*NEWSFLASH* ....DIDN'T EXECUTE 9/11. OSAMA BIN LADEN DID. That was in AFGHANISTAN....we are in a war with IRAQ.....see where the misleading is going?? We've been lied to, and any political reason we SHOULD be in this war relating to 9/11 is bullshit....*cough* weapons of mass destruction *cough*

[Egekrusher]

This is too much of a heated topic for me to be in. I'm staying out of this thread. I'll end trying to reach through the monitor and trying to strangle the Bush lovers.

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by Arioch
Its really a matter of how other countries see us. Believe it or not Americans are pretty well despised across the globe. Other countries tend to think we are overly obsessed with ourselves (as a country) and i definitly agree with that....



Bush USED 9/11 to go after SADAM who...*NEWSFLASH* ....DIDN'T EXECUTE 9/11. OSAMA BIN LADEN DID. That was in AFGHANISTAN....we are in a war with IRAQ.....see where the misleading is going?? We've been lied to, and any political reason we SHOULD be in this war relating to 9/11 is bullshit....*cough* weapons of mass destruction *cough*

No ties huh? Thats bullshit. I dont need the liberal media to think for me. Zarqawi is the second in command of Al-Qaida. Isn't he the one in Bagdad cutting peoples heads off? If I'm not mistaken Bagdad is in Iraq. Not to mention they found and destroyed a terrorist training camp in Iraq.
As far as weapons of mass destruction............ Look at past history. He killed hundreds of thousands of kurds with chemical weapons. I work with a guy from Iran and chemical weapons were used on them. Saadam said he had no chemical weapons so it must be true. He is such a moral and honest man.

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by Egekrusher
This is too much of a heated topic for me to be in. I'm staying out of this thread. I'll end trying to reach through the monitor and trying to strangle the Bush lovers.

I wish you could reach through this monitor so I could pull you through and put you out of your misery.

[movieman64]

Irregardless of who wins, I think anyone should be limited to 1 term, (4 years). Whether they perform or not we only have to put up with them for 4 years, our system is in place, (checks and balances) and if it works as intended it should protect us from power hungry zealots. 4 years as President of the United States doesn't look to bad on a resume either.

[Arioch]

and if it works as intended it should protect us from power hungry zealots. 4 years as President of the United States doesn't look to bad on a resume either.

LOL nice!!

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
Its really a matter of how other countries see us. Believe it or not Americans are pretty well despised across the globe. Other countries tend to think we are overly obsessed with ourselves (as a country) and i definitly agree with that....



Bush USED 9/11 to go after SADAM who...*NEWSFLASH* ....DIDN'T EXECUTE 9/11. OSAMA BIN LADEN DID. That was in AFGHANISTAN....we are in a war with IRAQ.....see where the misleading is going?? We've been lied to, and any political reason we SHOULD be in this war relating to 9/11 is bullshit....*cough* weapons of mass destruction *cough*


How do you know what other people think of America?? Because the media said so??? And anyhow what does that have to do with anything? A terrorist radical Muslim group came over here and killed thousands of innocent people because they want everyone to think the way they think.

They're going to keep on coming until the end of time unless someone stops them. Wake up man! The war against these crazy terrorists had to start somewhere! Anywhere in the middle east would have been fine with me.

Lets get it done over there before it starts over here because that's their whole purpose in life, death to the west. Those people do not think the same way you do.. Would you strap a bomb to yourself and kill innocent people in the name of what you believe??? I doubt it.... Unless of course you believe in 72 virgins waiting for you in the after life...

[bwind22]

I picked Bush because there were only two options, but I won't be voting for either. I probably won't vote for Nader either.

I hate politicians. Anyone that goes out and actively seeks to become the most powerful person in the world (President of the US) probably shouldn't be given the power, IMO.

I haven't decided how to vote yet, but I'm gonna stay out of this discussion for now....

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
I wish you could reach through this monitor so I could pull you through and put you out of your misery.



HA HA me too!

[Arioch]

How do you know what other people think of America?? Because the media said so??? And anyhow what does that have to do with anything? A terrorist radical Muslim group came over here and killed thousands of innocent people because they want everyone to think the way they think

I have a couple friends that spent a while in Europe for a couple years. I also watch alot of Eddie Izzard, various British culture...

They're going to keep on coming until the end of time unless someone stops them. Wake up man! The war against these crazy terrorists had to start somewhere! Anywhere in the middle east would have been fine with me.

Im sorry but this, nor any other wars are gonna keep the middle east peacefull and content. These countries have ALWAYS fought with eachother and ALWAYS will. This occupation we are no exercising isn't going to change that, and certainly not their opinion of us (atleast not in any good way, they dont even want us there).

Lets get it done over there before it starts over here because that's their whole purpose in life, death to the west. Those people do not think the same way you do.. Would you strap a bomb to yourself and kill innocent people in the name of what you believe??? I doubt it.... Unless of course you believe in 72 virgins waiting for you in the after life...

What do you mean "those people"? You dont think this is a race issue do you? And just for the record, i think 72 virgins waiting for me is just as (im)probable as a judge telling me if i was good or bad my whole life at "pearly gates"....but hey thats just me...

[Freddy Krueger.]

Bush sucks. Kerry! Kerry! Kerry!


JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

[sugar shane]

how can anyone say that bush has done what's right for the nation? did he go to war because it was needed or to get re-elected? and if anyone says we needed to get sadaam out of there, I agree- we needed to get him out of there the first time around, but bush sr. let him stay for some reason. hmmm...could that reason be so that his son would have a way to get himself reelected? oh, and by the way, it is well documented that the republican party generaly believes that the type of entertainment that brought us all to this site doesn't belong in our society. censorship,
'big brother", the patriot act? sorry guys, but this very forum, which is a way for us to express ourselves, is not something that these guys are in favor of. questioning our right wing leadership is "anti-American", even though that right is what made America in the first place

[sugar shane]

and by the way, whoever said that these terrorists will keep coming is absolutely right. our very own foreign policy has and will continue to make sure of that. stop the terrorists? stop giving people a reason to become terrorists.

[sugar shane]

let's not elect bush again, just like we didn't elect him the last time.

[Arioch]

did he go to war because it was needed or to get re-elected? and if anyone says we needed to get sadaam out of there, I agree- we needed to get him out of there the first time around, but bush sr. let him stay for some reason. hmmm...could that reason be so that his son would have a way to get himself reelected?

THANK YOU!!!

[MichaelMyers]

I will be voting Kerry/Edwards.

For the record, regarding the whole Iraq and pre-emptive war doctrine: it is a flawed way to go after terrorists, and here's why.

Country A -

1) Has or may posess WMD
2) Harbors terrorists/members of al-Qaeda
3) Oppresses its own people
4) Is guilty of virulent anti-American rhetoric

Here's the problem:

You can't tell me what country this is.

[HappyCamper]

I'm voting for Kerry, and only because I believe he is the lesser of two evils.

Besides George Dubya Bush is the worst President in the history of our country. He's put our country into more debt than any other President, and he went to war to feed his own ego...and to get oil and to 'get the guy who tried to kill my daddy!'

If Bush gets re-elected, I'm moving to Canada, at least there I'll be able to own a gun, walk into a hospital and get treated for free if i'm hurt. Oh and Bush's twin daughters are lushy whores!


oh look a grassy nole...BANG BANG BANG....back and to the left

[orangestar]

Originally posted by HappyCamper


Besides George Dubya Bush is the worst President in the history of our country. He's put our country into more debt than any other President, and he went to war to feed his own ego...and to get oil and to 'get the guy who tried to kill my daddy!'




EXACTLY! I wish I could vote just to show my hatred for what Dubya has done to this country. He's following his personal feelings, not doing whats best for the country. Plus he's an idiot who doesnt have basic language skills.

[fluffho]

just something funny someone sent to me

It's difficult to be a Republican in 2004, because you have to simultaneously believe that:

1. Jesus loves you, but shares your deep hatred of homosexuals.

2. The United States should get out of the United Nations, but our /highest
national priority is to enforce UN resolutions against Iraq.

3. Standing Tall for America means firing your workers and moving their jobs
to India.

4. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multinational corporations can make decisions affecting all humankind without
regulation.

5. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a
conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your
recovery.

6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
speeches, while slashing combat pay and veterans benefits.

7. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins, unless you someday run for
governor of California as a Republican.

8. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

9. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle and alienate our long-time
allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

10. HMOs and insurance companies can make huge profits while having the
interest of the public at heart.

11. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health
care to all Americans is socialism.

12. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but
creationism should be taught in schools.

13. It's okay that the Bush family's Carlisle Group has done millions of
dollars worth of business with the Bin Laden family.

14. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him and Rumsfeld reassured him he
was our buddy; a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him; a good guy when
Cheney did business with him; but then a bad guy again when Bush junior needed
a prop for his re-election campaign as the War President.

15. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense.
A president lying about the existence of WMDs to enlist support for an
unprovoked, undeclared war and occupation, in which thousands of soldiers and
civilians die, is solid defense policy in a War against Terrorism.

16. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution,
which apparently include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

17. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George
Bush's Harken Oil stock trade and his conviction for drunk driving should be
sealed in his Daddy's library, and is none of our business.

18. What Bill Clinton or John Kerry did in the 1960s was of vital national
interest but what Bush did in the 80's is irrelevant.

19. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with
China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

20. Affirmative Action is wrong, but it's OK for your Daddy and his friends
to help you graduate from Yale without studying very much, to dodge the draft
in the Texas Air National Guard, to bail out your poorly run companies (Harken
Oil and the Texas Rangers), to get you the Governorship of Texas and to have
the Supreme Court appoint you President of the USA.

21. You're a conservative, but it's OK to spend like there's no tomorrow and
run up deficits that your grandchildren will have to pay, while at the same
time, refunding as much tax money as possible to the richest 5% of Americans.

22. Call Senator Edwards a "rookie" that doesn't have the experience
necessary to run the country, when our current President was a one term governor and
had never traveled outside the US.

[orangestar]

Originally posted by fluffho
just something funny someone sent to me

It's difficult to be a Republican in 2004, because you have to simultaneously believe that:

1. Jesus loves you, but shares your deep hatred of homosexuals.

2. The United States should get out of the United Nations, but our /highest
national priority is to enforce UN resolutions against Iraq.

3. Standing Tall for America means firing your workers and moving their jobs
to India.

4. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but
multinational corporations can make decisions affecting all humankind without
regulation.

5. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a
conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your
recovery.

6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in
speeches, while slashing combat pay and veterans benefits.

7. Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins, unless you someday run for
governor of California as a Republican.

8. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

9. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle and alienate our long-time
allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

10. HMOs and insurance companies can make huge profits while having the
interest of the public at heart.

11. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health
care to all Americans is socialism.

12. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but
creationism should be taught in schools.

13. It's okay that the Bush family's Carlisle Group has done millions of
dollars worth of business with the Bin Laden family.

14. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him and Rumsfeld reassured him he
was our buddy; a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him; a good guy when
Cheney did business with him; but then a bad guy again when Bush junior needed
a prop for his re-election campaign as the War President.

15. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense.
A president lying about the existence of WMDs to enlist support for an
unprovoked, undeclared war and occupation, in which thousands of soldiers and
civilians die, is solid defense policy in a War against Terrorism.

16. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution,
which apparently include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

17. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George
Bush's Harken Oil stock trade and his conviction for drunk driving should be
sealed in his Daddy's library, and is none of our business.

18. What Bill Clinton or John Kerry did in the 1960s was of vital national
interest but what Bush did in the 80's is irrelevant.

19. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with
China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

20. Affirmative Action is wrong, but it's OK for your Daddy and his friends
to help you graduate from Yale without studying very much, to dodge the draft
in the Texas Air National Guard, to bail out your poorly run companies (Harken
Oil and the Texas Rangers), to get you the Governorship of Texas and to have
the Supreme Court appoint you President of the USA.

21. You're a conservative, but it's OK to spend like there's no tomorrow and
run up deficits that your grandchildren will have to pay, while at the same
time, refunding as much tax money as possible to the richest 5% of Americans.

22. Call Senator Edwards a "rookie" that doesn't have the experience
necessary to run the country, when our current President was a one term governor and
had never traveled outside the US.


Thats some funny stuff! And its all true...makes you think.

had never traveled outside the US.

I didnt even know that! How the hell did he become our president?

[HappyCamper]

you think that's funny...check this out...

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/this_land_af

[orangestar]

Originally posted by HappyCamper
you think that's funny...check this out...

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/this_land_af


lol, I saw that one. I love the Howard Dean part where he screams.

[rae_pierre]

I want Bush asassinated ASAP.

I don't know much about politics, but from what I have seen, it doesn't look like Bush really thought about or knew what the hell he was doing most times...I do know he sounds like a comlete idiot when he opens his mouth.

I wonder if people will go for the "well, we caught Saddam while he was in office" route... That might help him out a little.

[wufong]

I like bush. he is funny.

[orangestar]

Originally posted by rae_pierre

I wonder if people will go for the "well, we caught Saddam while he was in office" route... That might help him out a little.

People that arent that into politics will probably think that and vote Bush. Then regret it when he causes us to get bombed.

[bwind22]

Originally posted by orangestar
People that arent that into politics will probably think that and vote Bush. Then regret it when he causes us to get bombed.


I wonder what people will say if Kerry gets elected and we still get attacked.

[mothermold]

willy wonka.

[Haunted]

mothermold, Willy Wonka would be the ideal choice. What party do you think he'd run under? (Incidentally eatting Everlasting Gobstoppers to ease the pain of quitting smoking).

I'm a Kerry girl. I'm so glad he picked Edwards, and not just because I'm Southern. It's more because there's a dynamic between the two of them that says: We can get shit done and most of the time, we can do it right....Unlike those other sons-o-bitches."

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by sugar shane
and by the way, whoever said that these terrorists will keep coming is absolutely right. our very own foreign policy has and will continue to make sure of that. stop the terrorists? stop giving people a reason to become terrorists. Religious Extremity is their reason...WE didn't give that to them...ANY religion can be twisted to an extreme, and become a dangerous thing...Even Christianity...

Al Qeida takes the Koran of a peaceful religion, and interprets it as "Kill the non-believers", which goes against everything the Koran teaches...It DOES say to defeat your enemy (America is the enemy because we are "immoral"), but it ALSO says that not ONE innocent thing should be harmed in doing so...Not one innocent person, not a tree, etcetera...Basically, the Koran says the EXACT same things that the Christian Bible does , and the Christian bible(which states, for ONE example, that homosexuals should be brought out into the street and stoned to death...and for another, it allows for the hands of theives to be removed, just like they do in the Middle East... "If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out...If thine hand offend thee, cut it off..."...read that entire passage for details) can be interpretted in a dangerous, destructive, brutal, hateful manner as well...

Extremism is dangerous in ANY form

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
I have a couple friends that spent a while in Europe for a couple years. I also watch alot of Eddie Izzard, various British culture...

Im sorry but this, nor any other wars are gonna keep the middle east peacefull and content. These countries have ALWAYS fought with eachother and ALWAYS will. This occupation we are no exercising isn't going to change that, and certainly not their opinion of us (atleast not in any good way, they dont even want us there).

What do you mean "those people"? You dont think this is a race issue do you? And just for the record, i think 72 virgins waiting for me is just as (im)probable as a judge telling me if i was good or bad my whole life at "pearly gates"....but hey thats just me...


Having a few friends who spent time in Europe and watching British TV do not give an accurate count of how other people view America.

We have to fight this war against terrorism.... Unless we want to sit back and wait until the savages figure out a way to kill us all.

Utopia doesn't exist! And I do believe your dead wrong... The citizens of Iraq have been waiting for the West to come save them since before you were born... It is apparent that there is alot you don't know.

What I meant by "those people" was Terrorists! and yes they are promised 72 virgins in heaven for strapping on a bomb and driving into a crowd. They do not think the same way we do.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by sugar shane
and by the way, whoever said that these terrorists will keep coming is absolutely right. our very own foreign policy has and will continue to make sure of that. stop the terrorists? stop giving people a reason to become terrorists.


If you want to have an intelligent conversation, I suggest you pick up a History book or two first.

You are sadly misinformed.. Terrorists are terrorists because they have twisted a religious belief and think all non Muslims should die... WTF does that have to do with foreign policy????

[movieman64]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
Religious Extremity is their reason...WE didn't give that to them...ANY religion can be twisted to an extreme, and become a dangerous thing...Even Christianity...

Al Qeida takes the Koran of a peaceful religion, and interprets it as "Kill the non-believers", which goes against everything the Koran teaches...It DOES say to defeat your enemy (America is the enemy because we are "immoral"), but it ALSO says that not ONE innocent thing should be harmed in doing so...Not one innocent person, not a tree, etcetera...Basically, the Koran says the EXACT same things that the Christian Bible does , and the Christian bible(which states, for ONE example, that homosexuals should be brought out into the street and stoned to death...and for another, it allows for the hands of theives to be removed, just like they do in the Middle East... "If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out...If thine hand offend thee, cut it off..."...read that entire passage for details) can be interpretted in a dangerous, destructive, brutal, hateful manner as well...



Extremism is dangerous in ANY form


Al Qeida is to Muslim

as, KKK is to Christianity

[movieman64]

Hiding behind religion is one of the primary ways to wage war. More people have died in the name of God, (or by what ever name you prefer, or don't) The Crusades are a good example.

[Arioch]

Utopia doesn't exist! And I do believe your dead wrong... The citizens of Iraq have been waiting for the West to come save them since before you were born... It is apparent that there is alot you don't know.


If you READ my post, you would see that i said there would ALWAYS BE fighting over there (that would be the OPPOSITE of a UTOPIA, i dont even know where you got that) there will NEVER be peace over there, with or without our occupation over there.....THAT was my point....

Ya and they were so greatfull they killed our soldiers and dragged their corpses through the cities in exhultation....if you think they are all happy and praising america for being over their apparently there is alot YOU don't know...damn and right after i got done commending you in another thread....

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by movieman64
Al Qeida is to Muslim

as, KKK is to Christianity

true,true.........

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by movieman64
Hiding behind religion is one of the primary ways to wage war. More people have died in the name of God, (or by what ever name you prefer, or don't) The Crusades are a good example.

once again........ true,true

[HappyCamper]

I'm not voting for Bush and here is are my reasons:

A) He lied to the American People about the 'Weapons of Mass Destruction"

B) He started a war in a country that HAD NOTHING to do with the attack on America on Sept 11th

C) He has ties to Al Qeida ....

D) He's a greedy son of a bitch, who just wants more oil money

E) He started a war to get revenge, for a man he believes tried to assasinate his father

F) He's put our country into more debt than any other President.

G) He believes the Patriot Act is required

H) He's trying to cover his own ass, by blaming the CIA and other governmental agencies

I) and not really a good reason...but

HE's a STUPID DUMB ASS!!

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
If you READ my post, you would see that i said there would ALWAYS BE fighting over there (that would be the OPPOSITE of a UTOPIA, i dont even know where you got that) there will NEVER be peace over there, with or without our occupation over there.....THAT was my point....

Ya and they were so greatfull they killed our soldiers and dragged their corpses through the cities in exhultation....if you think they are all happy and praising america for being over their apparently there is alot YOU don't know...damn and right after i got done commending you in another thread....



What I meant by Utopia is exactly what you said, there will never be peace over there with or without military presence.

Thug terrorists killing American soldiers is also not a good measurement for how the people in Iraq feel about us being there.


I can hardly contain myself waiting for the new debate forum. I assure you we will meet again in there and have lots and lots of stuff to disagree on.

It's gonna be so much fun blasting your kind of thinking with concrete facts .......... There is an entire corner of my brain just overflowing with the stuff.

[Arioch]

What I meant by Utopia is exactly what you said, there will never be peace over there with or without military presence.

Utopia: An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects.

Dystopia: An imaginary place or state in which the condition of life is extremely bad, as from deprivation, oppression, or terror.
A work describing such a place or state: “dystopias such as Brave New World” (Times Literary Supplement).

If your gonna "blast my kind of thinking" at least get your literary terms in order before you do. It somewhat hurts your credibility....;)

[HappyCamper]

I have to agree with you Arioch, our foreign policy does help fuel foreigns hatred of our country. I know for one, that if I lived in another country and believed we could solve our problems on our own, I'd be extremely pissed off, when a 'more powerful' country sticks their nose into our business...

Also we have to remember that the people who attacked us are extremists, not the majority of a people who worship a peaceful religion.

No matter what the US Govt does there will always be people who hate us because of:

A) Our Freedoms

B) Our 'so called' sinful state

c) Occupation

[Arioch]

Exactly, us being over there is not going to magically cure the world of U.S. hatred...its just ignorant to think that...

[Egekrusher]

George Carlin said it best: "What? They have bigger dicks than us? BOMB THEM!"

A line from his stand up comedy when speaking of Bush and the U.S. government in general.

[Arioch]

Carlin is the shit! I love what he says about advertising lol...

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
Utopia: An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects.

Dystopia: An imaginary place or state in which the condition of life is extremely bad, as from deprivation, oppression, or terror.
A work describing such a place or state: “dystopias such as Brave New World” (Times Literary Supplement).

If your gonna "blast my kind of thinking" at least get your literary terms in order before you do. It somewhat hurts your credibility....;)


I am aware of what Utopia means... You must have a dictionary on your desktop. My reference to it was right on!

Let me explain it for you real slow....

You said...
"I'm sorry but this, nor any other wars are gonna keep the middle east peaceful and content. These countries have ALWAYS fought with each other and ALWAYS will. This occupation we are no exercising isn't going to change that, and certainly not their opinion of us (at least not in any good way, they don't even want us there)."


and I said...

"Utopia doesn't exist! " meaning yeah your right the middle east will never be peaceful.

hope this helps......... Oh and I hope you don't mind that I fixed a few spelling errors and typo's in your quote before I pasted it in this thread. I left the gonna because I like that variation of "going to" and use it often myself ..

[Arioch]

Utopia doesn't exist! And I do believe your dead wrong

This is you AGREEING with me??You got some fucked up ways of making an argumentive post lady...

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
This is you AGREEING with me??You got some fucked up ways of making an argumentive post lady...


this is bordering on ridiculousness!!! You conveniently left out the rest of that....


"Utopia doesn't exist!

And I do believe your dead wrong... The citizens of Iraq have been waiting for the West to come save them since before you were born"


I separated it to help you understand.


Good grief!

[Arioch]

Well, in MY experience, when one agrees with anothers post, they usually dont SCREAM IT AT THEM! with an exclamation point, and they usually give some acknowledge ment to the previous point agreed upon... for example:

"I agree, utopia doesn't exist"

Just so that it doesnt appear you are arguing the fact that it doesnt exist against me, which was my point in the first place....
It was just your wording...

Settle down GC, its just a internet forum...:rolleyes:

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
Well, in MY experience, when one agrees with anothers post, they usually dont SCREAM IT AT THEM! with an exclamation point, and they usually give some acknowledge ment to the previous point agreed upon... for example:

"I agree, utopia doesn't exist"

Just so that it doesnt appear you are arguing the fact that it doesnt exist against me, which was my point in the first place....
It was just your wording...

Settle down GC, its just a internet forum...:rolleyes:



Come on man, are you really going to try and tell me how I should use punctuation marks???

Thanks for the suggestion though, I don't think I need it! <--- not meaning I'm YELLING it at you, just that I am EXCLAIMING that I don't need your advice on how to express myself.


anything else???

[Arioch]

Well, just trying to help you be understood. As, you must admit, the phrasing of that was pretty vague.

Just trying to help you out, as you fixed all my grammatic errors in quoting me;) ...

[Gothic-chick]

Just trying to help you out, as you fixed all my grammatic errors in quoting me;) ... [/B][/QUOTE]


As I was trying to help you.. It was the least I could do after you took the time to look up the definition of Utopia to share with me..

[Arioch]

Well i knew utopia quite well....it was the spelling of dystopia that necessitated my visit to dictionary.com ....really it wasn't that much work lol...

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
Well i knew utopia quite well....it was the spelling of dystopia that necessitated my visit to dictionary.com ....really it wasn't that much work lol...




Don't really have much else to add pertaining our little conversation....

I just wanted to get the last word in LOL!

[Arioch]

Don't really have much else to add pertaining our little conversation....

I just wanted to get the last word in LOL!

I can allow that....:p ...

[KRUGERKID13]

Originally posted by Arioch
Agreed.



I was under the impression that a president was supposed to do whats best for the COUNTRY and its PEOPLE....not his own beliefs:rolleyes:

And if a "spineless democrat like clinton" was in office he would be MUCH more concerned with getting his dick sucked than sending more of our kids to die in a war started under false pretenses...then continued....under more false pretenses....

Maybe its just me, but if my choices are between felatio and war....felatio gets my vote every time;)

Kids gees i thought they were 18. Also he never started a draft therfore it was voluntary. Also by any chance are you micheal moore

[Vodstok]

Most of the people in the military these days are there to pay for college. Bush kind of fucked up their plans. Granted, he cant be faulted for calling people to do what they signed up for, but dont mistake it for "voluntary".

For the record, I lived 9 years of my life in Europe and yes, most other countries DO dislike America immensly, even our allies. I have heard it from their own mouths, there is no better proof than that. (for the record, i appreciate all of the non-americans in here never once going off on an "America sucks" tangent)

I dont like Bush one bit. Nor Cheney. I am not "Liberal", nor am i "Conservative". I am Independant. i think for myself. I am immune tio both political party's influence. Bush is an uneducated spoiled moron. He has a Falwellesque way of using his religion to justify his decisions. And i agree, the current crop of Republicans in high office are more facist than they are "American". Freedom, of speech, of thought AND the right to take care of ourselves and families is what this country is ALL about.

You call Democrats socialists. Denying a person the right to make decisions about her life, or an adult to make a decision about what kind of entertainment they want is the hallmark of a facist dictatorship, not "The American way". Is Bush a good boy now because he found god? Even though he used Coke and and got a drunk driving charge in college?

I guess not. "He was young." Forgivable if you back the guy, but if a girl goes out and gets laid (or raped in some opinions), she doesnt get any time off for good behavior.

I always find it interesting when a pro-lifer justifies the killing of another person... I guess life ends after you're born. ABortion is wrong, but war is right :rolleyes: .

Dont get me wrong. i am an Air force brat. i spent the first 17 years of my life growing up on military bases. I support the military 100%, andf when they got sent overseas, they had my full backing. The president doesnt, didnt, and never will (as long as it is Georgy) because he is an idiot with Horrible motives. I wouldnt trust him to remember the value of a quarter, let alone with my life or my country.

You seem to forget, the people in here from America, OWN America. I want the government in general to remember, they work for us, not vice-versa. George isnt the head of the country, he is our figurehead. Congress is OUR tool.

And i will not have my employees telling me what i am to do with my life.

In the last election, NEITHER of the candidates got my vote. i voted for John Mccain. Why? Because he gets under EVERYONE'S skin. he is a republican, but the republicans dont like him because he doesnt follow their rules. Granted, he worked with Joe Lieberman and ms Dole to try and ban violent video games, but find me one person that agrees with you 100% on EVERYTHING. I thought he was basically a good man, which is rare in politics.


Sorry about the length of this post. i also apologise for any hostility that may habve come through, but reading through the thread, politeness has gone bye bye.

If anyone thinks i have my head up my ass, i am interested to hear your reasons.

[Stingy Jack]

I, too, am neither Democrat nor Republican. However, I tend to agree more with the Democrat's side than the Republican's, and hence, I vote Democrat almost every time. I usually don't vote outside of the Democrat/Republican duality simply because the people who usually vote independent would have voted Democrat if they had to choose between just the two. And this is why I think Gore lost the Presidency ... too many traditionally Democratic voters going independent.

But I agree with practically all of what Vod just typed.

:D

[Vodstok]

Hence "No one agrees 100% with anyone" :D

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Arioch
I can allow that....:p ...

OK then here it is....

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Vodstok
Most of the people in the military these days are there to pay for college. Bush kind of fucked up their plans. Granted, he cant be faulted for calling people to do what they signed up for, but dont mistake it for "voluntary".

For the record, I lived 9 years of my life in Europe and yes, most other countries DO dislike America immensly, even our allies. I have heard it from their own mouths, there is no better proof than that. (for the record, i appreciate all of the non-americans in here never once going off on an "America sucks" tangent)

I dont like Bush one bit. Nor Cheney. I am not "Liberal", nor am i "Conservative". I am Independant. i think for myself. I am immune tio both political party's influence. Bush is an uneducated spoiled moron. He has a Falwellesque way of using his religion to justify his decisions. And i agree, the current crop of Republicans in high office are more facist than they are "American". Freedom, of speech, of thought AND the right to take care of ourselves and families is what this country is ALL about.

You call Democrats socialists. Denying a person the right to make decisions about her life, or an adult to make a decision about what kind of entertainment they want is the hallmark of a facist dictatorship, not "The American way". Is Bush a good boy now because he found god? Even though he used Coke and and got a drunk driving charge in college?

I guess not. "He was young." Forgivable if you back the guy, but if a girl goes out and gets laid (or raped in some opinions), she doesnt get any time off for good behavior.

I always find it interesting when a pro-lifer justifies the killing of another person... I guess life ends after you're born. ABortion is wrong, but war is right :rolleyes: .

Dont get me wrong. i am an Air force brat. i spent the first 17 years of my life growing up on military bases. I support the military 100%, andf when they got sent overseas, they had my full backing. The president doesnt, didnt, and never will (as long as it is Georgy) because he is an idiot with Horrible motives. I wouldnt trust him to remember the value of a quarter, let alone with my life or my country.

You seem to forget, the people in here from America, OWN America. I want the government in general to remember, they work for us, not vice-versa. George isnt the head of the country, he is our figurehead. Congress is OUR tool.

And i will not have my employees telling me what i am to do with my life.

In the last election, NEITHER of the candidates got my vote. i voted for John Mccain. Why? Because he gets under EVERYONE'S skin. he is a republican, but the republicans dont like him because he doesnt follow their rules. Granted, he worked with Joe Lieberman and ms Dole to try and ban violent video games, but find me one person that agrees with you 100% on EVERYTHING. I thought he was basically a good man, which is rare in politics.


Sorry about the length of this post. i also apologise for any hostility that may habve come through, but reading through the thread, politeness has gone bye bye.

If anyone thinks i have my head up my ass, i am interested to hear your reasons.



You have no way of knowing why most people joined the military. Our Military is voluntary! Everyone who joins signs on the dotted line volunteering to fight if called upon.

Anyone who joins for college money is an idiot. Just another bullshit democrat way of thinking... Hmmm? how can I get free college money? Oh I know, I'll join the military and let tax dollars pay for it. hmmm? how can I get more handouts? I know, I'll vote for the democrats so they can take more money from hardworking folks and give it to me so I don't have to work hard.


Spending time in Europe does not give you the knowledge to state "most other countries" hate America. If your speaking of other countries governments, your dead wrong. If your trying to speak for the citizens of each country, well that's just silly.

There are millions of people around the world who respect America and are grateful for it's role in the world. Of course there are also people who hate us. Doesn't really matter though, they all come calling when they need help.

Like it or not, America leads the world and without our help (on many levels) whole Countries would collapse.

Comparing abortion to war is laughable.. Do you really not see the difference? Of course there are innocent people dying in wars.... How can you compare that to someone killing a baby because they didn't use birth control?

I don't think anyone other than radical Muslims thinks war is right. Unfortunately it is necessary in this world. History has proven that again and again.

You can thank war for your pampered life in America.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
I, too, am neither Democrat nor Republican. However, I tend to agree more with the Democrat's side than the Republican's, and hence, I vote Democrat almost every time. I usually don't vote outside of the Democrat/Republican duality simply because the people who usually vote independent would have voted Democrat if they had to choose between just the two. And this is why I think Gore lost the Presidency ... too many traditionally Democratic voters going independent.

But I agree with practically all of what Vod just typed.

:D


Gore lost the presidency because he had less votes! I hate it when people say that independent votes would have been Gores. That's just ridiculousness at it's finest!

[Vodstok]

How do you justify using rough generalizations, and then "correct" me for mine? Obviously i cant know what everyone thinks, BUT the generasl citizenship (in my experience) of most countries appear to think that America is arrogant and constantly butting in to other people's business. Also, on what experience do you base your astute observation? Are you well travelled? Have you lived in another country? Just curious since you pointed out earlier that one person's opinion was baseless because they had not been outside of America, yet mine appears just as baseless in your eyes for the exact opposite reason.

"Bullshit democrat way of thinking". That's an informed opinion. I imagine real-world discussions with you resort to you shouting your ideas loudly so that the other person cant get a word in edgewise and gets irritated an leaves, therefore you dont have to hear their stance and can go on in your self-righteous indignation. Or, i could be wrong. Thtat is just the impression you are giving.

Also, in case you havent noticed, the attitude of the government very rarely reflects the feelings of the populace at large. I DO agree that a large part of why some of the world's most successful nations are the way they are is because of our influence (Germany and Japan are 2 examples). that doesnt mean they all love us.

We ARE also the only remaining Superpower on earth, and this is the root of a lot of our unpopularity. Rather than being seen as benevolent leaders, we are seen as arrogant, pushy bullies. And fundamentalist muslims are just the latest crop of people that cant stand us. And many MANY people and countries want to start war. Why else would they have such large standing armies when they dont need one? The only thing holding them back is the fact that any act of violence these days brings the UN and America down on them like a swarm of wasps.

This IS a good thing i believe. Being good out of fear of punishment isn't GOOD, but its a start.

Also, the "You need us" approach isnt going to make us any more freinds. Try telling a Canadian that they Need us to cover their ass. Or an English person. So what if onpaper it is true? so what if America didnt back many countries they would be easy fodder for their neighbors? Do you want the cops swinging by every so oftenreminding you that without them, someone could come into your house and steal all your things and you could do nothing? Of course not.

I compar ewar to abortion because abortion is considered murder, but innocents killed in war are "acceptable losses". Again, if they aborted a baby, they would be evil bastards, but if they blew up a building and killed 20, they made a slip up. Believ me, you dont spend your life growing up in the military and not know a thing or two about war.

I know what war has done for us. i also know the difference between World War 2 and Vietnam. I knwo the difference between fighting for whats right, and fighting to prevent a nation from converting to a system of government that we dont want them to have,but they could care less about.

Iraq was a 50/50 war. Saddam needed tobe taken down, he was a bad person doing bad things. BUT, we should not be lied to. i would have backed Bush 100% if he had said "I dont ike him, he tried to have my dad killed, and you all KNOW you want him taken down." Fuck weapons of mass destruction. Kick his ass because it needs to be kicked.

I thank the people who FOUGHT for this country for my life, not the wars they fought. "A true warrior prepares for battle, but prays for peace." You might want to put a little more thought into your words before you use them, as you have advise3d others to do. War doesnt do shit but kill people. its the people who were in them that actually accomplished something.

And as far as the last election went, Bush did not have the superior number. No one knows for sure, and it is a moot point anyway because that was 4 years ago and he has already been in office to do his damage.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Gothic-chick
Gore lost the presidency because he had less votes! I hate it when people say that independent votes would have been Gores. That's just ridiculousness at it's finest!

The fact that you don't realize that the majority of Independent Party voters are liberals, and therefore would have probably voted for Gore had they had no other choice is even more ridiculous.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Vodstok
How do you justify using rough generalizations, and then "correct" me for mine? Obviously i cant know what everyone thinks, BUT the generasl citizenship (in my experience) of most countries appear to think that America is arrogant and constantly butting in to other people's business. Also, on what experience do you base your astute observation? Are you well travelled? Have you lived in another country? Just curious since you pointed out earlier that one person's opinion was baseless because they had not been outside of America, yet mine appears just as baseless in your eyes for the exact opposite reason.

"Bullshit democrat way of thinking". That's an informed opinion. I imagine real-world discussions with you resort to you shouting your ideas loudly so that the other person cant get a word in edgewise and gets irritated an leaves, therefore you dont have to hear their stance and can go on in your self-righteous indignation. Or, i could be wrong. Thtat is just the impression you are giving.

Also, in case you havent noticed, the attitude of the government very rarely reflects the feelings of the populace at large. I DO agree that a large part of why some of the world's most successful nations are the way they are is because of our influence (Germany and Japan are 2 examples). that doesnt mean they all love us.

We ARE also the only remaining Superpower on earth, and this is the root of a lot of our unpopularity. Rather than being seen as benevolent leaders, we are seen as arrogant, pushy bullies. And fundamentalist muslims are just the latest crop of people that cant stand us. And many MANY people and countries want to start war. Why else would they have such large standing armies when they dont need one? The only thing holding them back is the fact that any act of violence these days brings the UN and America down on them like a swarm of wasps.

This IS a good thing i believe. Being good out of fear of punishment isn't GOOD, but its a start.

Also, the "You need us" approach isnt going to make us any more freinds. Try telling a Canadian that they Need us to cover their ass. Or an English person. So what if onpaper it is true? so what if America didnt back many countries they would be easy fodder for their neighbors? Do you want the cops swinging by every so oftenreminding you that without them, someone could come into your house and steal all your things and you could do nothing? Of course not.

I compar ewar to abortion because abortion is considered murder, but innocents killed in war are "acceptable losses". Again, if they aborted a baby, they would be evil bastards, but if they blew up a building and killed 20, they made a slip up. Believ me, you dont spend your life growing up in the military and not know a thing or two about war.

I know what war has done for us. i also know the difference between World War 2 and Vietnam. I knwo the difference between fighting for whats right, and fighting to prevent a nation from converting to a system of government that we dont want them to have,but they could care less about.

Iraq was a 50/50 war. Saddam needed tobe taken down, he was a bad person doing bad things. BUT, we should not be lied to. i would have backed Bush 100% if he had said "I dont ike him, he tried to have my dad killed, and you all KNOW you want him taken down." Fuck weapons of mass destruction. Kick his ass because it needs to be kicked.

I thank the people who FOUGHT for this country for my life, not the wars they fought. "A true warrior prepares for battle, but prays for peace." You might want to put a little more thought into your words before you use them, as you have advise3d others to do. War doesnt do shit but kill people. its the people who were in them that actually accomplished something.

And as far as the last election went, Bush did not have the superior number. No one knows for sure, and it is a moot point anyway because that was 4 years ago and he has already been in office to do his damage.

Good show, Vod.

[Vodstok]

I'm just glad that if we are going to be ridiculous, at least were are of a high caliber apprently :)

And thank you :)


I didnt particularly appreciate being spoken(?) to as if i am an ignorant child. i thought i was more than giving in the abortion thread with gothic chick and i am trying to remain above the insults. i wish she could do the same :rolleyes:

I am, however, not surprised. Bwind is always rational and polite, why cant the people that agree with him be?

[Arioch]

I didnt particularly appreciate being spoken(?) to as if i am an ignorant child. i thought i was more than giving in the abortion thread with gothic chick and i am trying to remain above the insults. i wish she could do the same

Ya she does that...a little bit of RottingEye syndrome....

Anyone who joins for college money is an idiot. Just another bullshit democrat way of thinking

LMAO!!! I mean what can you say to that but LMAO!!!



How do you justify using rough generalizations, and then "correct" me for mine? Obviously i cant know what everyone thinks, BUT the generasl citizenship (in my experience) of most countries appear to think that America is arrogant and constantly butting in to other people's business. Also, on what experience do you base your astute observation? Are you well travelled? Have you lived in another country? Just curious since you pointed out earlier that one person's opinion was baseless because they had not been outside of America, yet mine appears just as baseless in your eyes for the exact opposite reason.

THANK YOU!!! It appears that since we have BOTH incountered this from different sources throughout our lives, we are BOTH subject to baseless opinions according to her...:rolleyes:



would have backed Bush 100% if he had said "I dont ike him, he tried to have my dad killed, and you all KNOW you want him taken down." Fuck weapons of mass destruction. Kick his ass because it needs to be kicked

Agreed. It was the fact that we were lied to and mislead for his political agenda that pisses me off....not the fact that we went after sadam, who, ill agree, needed to be taken down.....but WTF couldn't the fucking cokehead just be honest about it?

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Vodstok
And as far as the last election went, Bush did not have the superior number. No one knows for sure, and it is a moot point anyway because that was 4 years ago and he has already been in office to do his damage.

And do damage he did. As an educator (and I'm surprised nobody else comments on this point) I can professionally vouch for the fact that Bush screwed up this nation's public education system BIG TIME with his "No Child Left Behind" act. As a teacher, I have studied theories and practices of education from rote memorization to constructivism. I know the positives and negatives of almost every educational philosophy put into print, and also know that the past 20 years of research into learning and learning styles has shown conclusively that standardized testing does NOT help education, and, in fact, is detrimental to student learning. So what does Bush do in his infinite hick-wisdom? He makes it a law that ALL students MUST pass a series of state-administered standardized tests before they are allowed to graduate. Now, teachers (just to keep their jobs), have been forced to throw out all of their ideals regarding independent thought and study on the part of the student, have regressed from student-centered constructivist classrooms to the traditional "teacher as dictator" classrooms, and have basically turned our schools from progressive, cooperative-learning institutions into ruler-slapping, repeat- and-recite idiot factories. I am a teacher. I know.

If anything irks me about Bush, it is this. We seriously need to get him out of office before he starts meddling in anything else he's too uneducated to know shit about.

[fluffho]

At least here in san diego... so many of the students are failing these tests that theyve lowered the bars to 7th and 8th grade levels,

and stil... Many are failing!! pretty funny

but hey... more drones to add to the fighting force right? fuck doctors, teachers, scientist... WE NEED MORE SOLDIERS!!!

DIE STINGY DIE!!!! (still on my mantra from earlier, in caseu take that too personally mr stinge. got nothin but love for ya)

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by fluffho
At least here in san diego... so many of the students are failing these tests that theyve lowered the bars to 7th and 8th grade levels,

and stil... Many are failing!! pretty funny

but hey... more drones to add to the fighting force right? fuck doctors, teachers, scientist... WE NEED MORE SOLDIERS!!!

DIE STINGY DIE!!!! (still on my mantra from earlier, in caseu take that too personally mr stinge. got nothin but love for ya)

Many of the students are failing these tests because teachers have been taught how to teach according to recent educational research. Now, they have to teach to the test ... which is something they never learned to do (which, in fact, they were taught was a terrible way to teach.) We have all had to attend workshops on how to teach to the standardized tests, and basically stuff our four years of college training in the trash. It's completely horrifying.

[Arioch]

but hey... more drones to add to the fighting force right? fuck doctors, teachers, scientist... WE NEED MORE SOLDIERS!!!

LOL, nice....

Many of the students are failing these tests because teachers have been taught how to teach according to recent educational research. Now, they have to teach to the test ... which is something they never learned to do (which, in fact, they were taught was a terrible way to teach.) We have all had to attend workshops on how to teach to the standardized tests, and basically stuff our four years of college training in the trash. It's completely horrifying.

Damn i can imagine.....is there really any area that bush is causing IMPROVEMENT?? I just haven't heard of any and was wondering.....

Also by any chance are you micheal moore
If you mean that any Non-bush supporter is, then i suppose so:rolleyes: .....biggest cop-out EVER....

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Arioch
Damn i can imagine.....is there really any area that bush is causing IMPROVEMENT?? I just haven't heard of any and was wondering.....

For us? No. For Iraqui citizens? Maybe ...

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
For us? No. For Iraqui citizens? Maybe ...

And what do we, the American public get in return? A warm fuzzy feeling, a big bucket off "Get the fuck out" by the Iraqis and some citizens who are a bit shorter thanks to some Al-Quaeda members.

[Gothic-chick]

Vodstok,

you said "How do you justify using rough generalizations, and then "correct" me for mine? "


I'm not trying to correct you at all. In fact didn't you say "If anyone thinks i have my head up my ass, i am interested to hear your reasons." ????? I just gave you my reasons. that's all. I stand firm on my OPINION that one can not state that many countries hate America based on some time spent in Europe. It's a big world out there, and I doubt anyone has spoken to everyone.


you said.. ""Bullshit democrat way of thinking". That's an informed opinion. I imagine real-world discussions with you resort to you shouting your ideas loudly so that the other person cant get a word in edgewise and gets irritated an leaves, therefore you dont have to hear their stance and can go on in your self-righteous indignation. Or, i could be wrong. Thtat is just the impression you are giving."


I have no self righteous indignation.... sorry if you came to that conclusion... I certainly don't think that way of you. Seems the impression you get from me is wrong. Totally not who I am!


you said.... "Also, in case you havent noticed, the attitude of the government very rarely reflects the feelings of the populace at large. I DO agree that a large part of why some of the world's most successful nations are the way they are is because of our influence (Germany and Japan are 2 examples). that doesnt mean they all love us."


I have noticed and I agree with you there.... Unfortunately that is further proof that people vote based on emotions and fear ,not using their heads. I wish there were a way to change that. Maybe our politicians (both sides included) could quit mudslinging and stick to the issues.


You said.... "We ARE also the only remaining Superpower on earth, and this is the root of a lot of our unpopularity. Rather than being seen as benevolent leaders, we are seen as arrogant, pushy bullies. And fundamentalist muslims are just the latest crop of people that cant stand us. And many MANY people and countries want to start war. Why else would they have such large standing armies when they dont need one? The only thing holding them back is the fact that any act of violence these days brings the UN and America down on them like a swarm of wasps.
This IS a good thing i believe. Being good out of fear of punishment isn't GOOD, but its a start."


Although I think all countries need an army to defend themselves. In my opinion your right on there.


You said.... "Also, the "You need us" approach isnt going to make us any more freinds. Try telling a Canadian that they Need us to cover their ass. Or an English person. So what if onpaper it is true? so what if America didnt back many countries they would be easy fodder for their neighbors? Do you want the cops swinging by every so oftenreminding you that without them, someone could come into your house and steal all your things and you could do nothing? Of course not."



Good point. I wonder what would happen if we cut off all aid out there.. Who'd be knocking on America's door first??? The whole cops thing is another topic entirely.


you said...."I compare war to abortion because abortion is considered murder, but innocents killed in war are "acceptable losses". Again, if they aborted a baby, they would be evil bastards, but if they blew up a building and killed 20, they made a slip up. Believ me, you dont spend your life growing up in the military and not know a thing or two about war."


Now that you clarified I see your point although I disagree on the comparison. Abortion is not necessary , unfortunately War is.



you said..."I know what war has done for us. i also know the difference between World War 2 and Vietnam. I knwo the difference between fighting for whats right, and fighting to prevent a nation from converting to a system of government that we dont want them to have,but they could care less about."


You certainly have a right to your opinion. And I can and do respectfully disagree with it. I'll save it for the new debate forum as I am sure reasons for past wars will come up.


you said... "Iraq was a 50/50 war. Saddam needed to be taken down, he was a bad person doing bad things. BUT, we should not be lied to. i would have backed Bush 100% if he had said "I dont ike him, he tried to have my dad killed, and you all KNOW you want him taken down." Fuck weapons of mass destruction. Kick his ass because it needs to be kicked."


I do back Bush 100% And I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt, whoever was in office would have had the same information as Bush and given us the same reasons for going to war in Iraq. Until I see Bush say "I lied and it was all about revenge" I will stick to backing Bush's decisions. I didn't blindly vote.... It was based on heavy thought and pondering of issues at hand. I do care about the future of this country that so many men in my life have served, fought, and died for. Although I don't agree on everything the current administration does, has done, and will do, I feel in the long run it's what our country needs.



You said... "I thank the people who FOUGHT for this country for my life, not the wars they fought. "A true warrior prepares for battle, but prays for peace." You might want to put a little more thought into your words before you use them, as you have advise3d others to do. War doesnt do shit but kill people. its the people who were in them that actually accomplished something."


War sucks plain and simple but it is our reality. And we totally disagree there... I think without war the world would be a different place for sure and I'm doubtfull that's a good thing.. Thanks for the advice, about thinking about words I use. I do believe you should take that advice yourself....


you said "And as far as the last election went, Bush did not have the superior number. No one knows for sure, and it is a moot point anyway because that was 4 years ago and he has already been in office to do his damage."


Bush did have the superior number and he didn't have to pay bums with cigarettes and a warm meal to get it.

The way I see it , Bush is doing a fine job with the mess he walked into left by the Clintons and hopefully he will continue to do so for the next 4 years.

[Vodstok]

That was wonderfully lucid and calm gothic :)

Can we say that we agree to disagree? There is always SOME common ground :D

[hellfire1]

the hostility is certainly palpable. as an american living in france, i have gotten into some heated discussions with arabic friends who think that what the american soldiers are doing in irak is no different than what those al quaeda members did to those poor men in the videos. from what i've seen here, not too many people ( and by this i mean the arabic population here in france which is considerable ) are happy nor thankful for the intervention. they see it more as an invasion.

[Vodstok]

And that was pretty much what i was saying. Americans have a very high opinion of what we do around the world, and i think we deserve it most of the time.

But there is a big difference in perception from country to country, and "helping out" is often interpreted as "butting in". In a lot of cases, they want to be left to fight their own wars. BlackHawk Down shows an awful lot of how we help people and they dont even appreciate it. they would rather blow each other up their own way, not have americans flitting about doing it for them.

[hellfire1]

that's exactly what i've heard here. and i know bush has his supporters, but ever since he's been in office, the general opinion about americans has gotten worse and worse, and i've been living in paris for 10 years now, so i know what i'm talking about. as you pointed out, americans didn't appreciate being lied to, guess what, neither did the rest of the world ( or at least, most of europe ). i think that bush's persona just made the whole situation worse.

edit : i've really got to see that movie !

[meetthecreeper]

As for what other countries think of us, WHO GIVES A SHIT???? How many times has France ever came to the aid of anyone besides us during the Rev. War....NOONE. IF we hadnt gone to Normandy they would all be speaking German right now.

We ended Hitler and his Nazi regime, stopped Communism and ended the cold war, removed a psycho murderer in the Balkans and another maniac who murdered several hundred thousand people in Iraq.

No what we should do is be isolationist and sit around and watch the rest of the world kill each other and we will do nothing:rolleyes: .

Fact of the matter is most people care more about what Britney is wearing on the red carpet and what is going on with Ben and Jen. All people really want is to watch there big screens, play vid games and screw around on their spouses on the internet.

Oooh cant wait to see what is going on with the OJ trial blah blah blah.

WAKE UP PEOPLE BOTH OF THESE POLITCAL PARTIES DONT CARE ABOUT US 'THE AVERAGE JOE' THEY CARE ABOUT STAYING IN OFFICE AND THATS IT.

You got to have rocks in your head to want to be in politics, unless you are power hungry.

Sorry dont think that Kerry really gives a shit, if he did may be he would give his millions to charity and become a monk.

The only thing W ever did me wrong by is that his administration doesnt recognize my religion as legit, and I say to that so what. Witches and Pagans and the like have been persecuted since the beginning of time, I have become used to it.

I like to think of myself as an Independent thinker but all I will say whoever I vote for it will not be Kerry/Edwards.

[meetthecreeper]

Sorry about the Rant I really dislike politcians in general, especially the 2 party system.

[hellfire1]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
As for what other countries think of us, WHO GIVES A SHIT???? How many times has France ever came to the aid of anyone besides us during the Rev. War....NOONE. IF we hadnt gone to Normandy they would all be speaking German right now.

We ended Hitler and his Nazi regime, stopped Communism and ended the cold war, removed a psycho murderer in the Balkans and another maniac who murdered several hundred thousand people in Iraq.

No what we should do is be isolationist and sit around and watch the rest of the world kill each other and we will do nothing:rolleyes: .



lol
very true. but many forget that the only reason the u.s went to war was because of pearl harbour and the fact that we were attacked, and that the nazi threat was spreading. before that there was never any intention of going to war. but i wasn't there so i wouldn't know ( my... i did listen to my history classes after all... ). and on that note, we should all check out propain's forum. lol

but i agree that all politicians are shit and that neither bush nor kerry really give a damn. it's all about voting for who you think is the lesser of two evils really.


edit : and i hate politics and politicians also creeper. that's why i hardly ever talk about the subject... way too aggravating. so rant away, if you feel like it !

[Arioch]

But there is a big difference in perception from country to country, and "helping out" is often interpreted as "butting in". In a lot of cases, they want to be left to fight their own wars. BlackHawk Down shows an awful lot of how we help people and they dont even appreciate it. they would rather blow each other up their own way, not have americans flitting about doing it for them.

Agreed..

I have no self righteous indignation.... sorry if you came to that conclusion... I certainly don't think that way of you. Seems the impression you get from me is wrong. Totally not who I am!

I got it too, and im sure you not really like that in real life...

That was a much nicer post GC...

[ShankS]

stop bush.... shave down below.

[zwoti]

Originally posted by ShankS
stop bush.... shave down below.

you had to drag it down to that level didn't you.

[hellfire1]

lmao !

[ShankS]

it's the only way to stop the overgrowth

[Vodstok]

Shanks Is our churchill. You rule, buddy :)

[hellfire1]

here here ! :p


edit : it's mine arioch.... mine *laughs an diabolical laugh*

[ShankS]

a quote from a conversation Mr W Churchill had, with a woman who complained to him about having to much drink on one occasion.....

"Sir, you are drunk!" "Well madam, I may be
be drunk, but you are ugly; the difference
being I will be sober in the morning."

Winston Churchill

[Arioch]

here here !

You stole my saying:mad:

[hellfire1]

.... hahahaha... slowpoke :D

















































i'm sorry !! so sorry !! want it back ?? :p

[Arioch]

i'm sorry !! so sorry !! want it back ??

Yes...i do:p

[hellfire1]

uumm... how about no ?! tough noogies ! gotta be faster, punk :p :D


ohh... i'm so evil :rolleyes: :p

[Vodstok]

Originally posted by ShankS
a quote from a conversation Mr W Churchill had, with a woman who complained to him about having to much drink on one occasion.....

"Sir, you are drunk!" "Well madam, I may be
be drunk, but you are ugly; the difference
being I will be sober in the morning."

Winston Churchill

good, i was really hoping you liked churchhill :)

[Stingy Jack]

Notice how the Bush-supporters never seem to want to comment on the fact that Bush fucked up the educational system in the US. I guess if you don't talk about it, it'll go away?

[fluffho]

had a comment but i erased it.

but it is true though, as powerful as our nation is education wise.....

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by fluffho
had a comment but i erased it.

but it is true though, as powerful as our nation is education wise.....

What was the comment?

[fluffho]

cant say...... with good reason. MUHAHAHAA. it was in a joking way but... was still somewhat derogatory

[Arioch]

Notice how the Bush-supporters never seem to want to comment on the fact that Bush fucked up the educational system in the US. I guess if you don't talk about it, it'll go away?

I have noticed that.....hmmmmmmmm....

[yourlastmistake]

VOD VOD VOD VOD VOD,
Most of the people in the military these days are there to pay for college? Let me ask you? Is that from personal experience? You have alot of buddies that joined the military for that reason? I seriously doubt it. Everybody joins the military for different reasons. I joined the Army because I didn't want to go to college.I was sick and tired of school but I didn't want to sit around and do nothing with my life. MARINES are some of the most patriotic people in the world.I think most of them would take offense to that remark.For what reasons did you join the military?

You lived in Europe for 9 years.How old were you? Just curious. You can speak for the majority of Europe? Who doesn't have a dislike for America. When the rest of the world seems so dependent on us.It goes with the territory. I am not so arrogant as to not think that Britain and even China are superpowers.

Since I'm the only one that compared the Democrats to Socialist you must be referring to me. Democracy in it most extreme form is Socialism. The Democrats want you to have to rely on them for everything. Their answer to everything is taxation.Take from the rich and give to the poor.Socialized health care. What's next? Being told where to work,where to live?

He used coke and got a drunk driving charge. You've never done any drugs?You've never drank to get drunk? At least he's got the balls to admit it. Unlike that turd Clinton.......I did not inhale......I did not have sexual relations with that woman.Sat right on nation TV and told me to my face.He must think Americans are stupid.I took that as a personal insult.
I never said I was a PRO-LIFER.But I don't think abortion should be used a means of birth control. War is sometimes necessary. I don't think anybody will deny that Saddam is an evil man.

Your right, Congress is our tool. The president is our figurehead and its important to the morale of this nation how he's viewed.

I'm not totally happy how Bush has handled the whole situation.I think we jumped into this war in Iraq too soon after Afghanistan.I'm an independent thinker too.I don't blame 9/11 on Iraq. This is the war on terrorism. All those middle eastern countries have ties to terrorism. And to think that none of Iraqis neighboring countries weren't grateful. I bet Iran and Kuwait were.The war on terrorism is world wide Vod. Not just the middle east.


Like I said, I'm not crazy about Bush but you know what? I'm more scared of Kerry.

Its been along day................. I"ll tell you why Iater.





.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
VOD VOD VOD VOD VOD,
Most of the people in the military these days are there to pay for college? Let me ask you? Is that from personal experience? You have alot of buddies that joined the military for that reason? I seriously doubt it. Everybody joins the military for different reasons. I joined the Army because I didn't want to go to college.I was sick and tired of school but I didn't want to sit around and do nothing with my life. MARINES are some of the most patriotic people in the world.I think most of them would take offense to that remark.For what reasons did you join the military?

You lived in Europe for 9 years.How old were you? Just curious. You can speak for the majority of Europe? Who doesn't have a dislike for America. When the rest of the world seems so dependent on us.It goes with the territory. I am not so arrogant as to not think that Britain and even China are superpowers.

Since I'm the only one that compared the Democrats to Socialist you must be referring to me. Democracy in it most extreme form is Socialism. The Democrats want you to have to rely on them for everything. Their answer to everything is taxation.Take from the rich and give to the poor.Socialized health care. What's next? Being told where to work,where to live?

He used coke and got a drunk driving charge. You've never done any drugs?You've never drank to get drunk? At least he's got the balls to admit it. Unlike that turd Clinton.......I did not inhale......I did not have sexual relations with that woman.Sat right on nation TV and told me to my face.He must think Americans are stupid.I took that as a personal insult.
I never said I was a PRO-LIFER.But I don't think abortion should be used a means of birth control. War is sometimes necessary. I don't think anybody will deny that Saddam is an evil man.

Your right, Congress is our tool. The president is our figurehead and its important to the morale of this nation how he's viewed.

I'm not totally happy how Bush has handled the whole situation.I think we jumped into this war in Iraq too soon after Afghanistan.I'm an independent thinker too.I don't blame 9/11 on Iraq. This is the war on terrorism. All those middle eastern countries have ties to terrorism. And to think that none of Iraqis neighboring countries weren't grateful. I bet Iran and Kuwait were.The war on terrorism is world wide Vod. Not just the middle east.


Like I said, I'm not crazy about Bush but you know what? I'm more scared of Kerry.

Its been along day................. I"ll tell you why Iater.





.

Wait, wait, wait. You call Democrats "Socialists" because, as you say, "democracy in its most extreme form is Socialism". Okay .... well, since A Republic in its most extreme form is facism, do you mind if I call you a facist?

And I would say that Democracy in its most extreme form isn't Socialism ... maybe Communism?

[yourlastmistake]

Communism/Socialism call it anything you want. For that matter you can call me anything you want. Did you see Edwards speech last night? I thought I was going to puke. The democrats are going to save the world. First he says he's going to give working mothers and the rich tax cuts then he says the democrats are going to take care of the poor and the middle class. Like i said they want Americans to be dependent on the democratic govt. Where is all this money going to come from............. oh yeah.........
we'll just raise taxes. You people call yourselves free thinkers.Do you really believe everything you hear ?

[Vodstok]

You take the good with the bad with the republicans, how can you look down on others for doing the same?

I am sick of the "How can you know what EVERYONE else is thinking"... Obviously i dont. If i did, i would be defeating your arguments before you made them.

I was 16 when i left europe. a lot of things may change in 12 years, but not everything. Again, I asked Gothic Chick this: Have eiether of you spent any time in another country? I wasnt there on vacation, I was LIVING there, off the economy. Hellfire can tell you what that is like, she is doing it right now.

I never joined the military. that was an off-handed remark. Sorry i didnt specify that, but i was making a point: in the last 10 years, we havent had AS MANY people joining simply to be patriotic. My fiances sister joined the Navy because she wanted to do something good with her life. It must be genetic, because my fiance wants to be a cop.

They are both very admirable. However, michelle (my soon to be sister in law) was engaged to someone who joined because HIS PARENTS didnt want him to go to college. Simple as that. they wanted him in the military, he went. He doesnt want to be there, but he is doing his job, because now he feels he is stuck.

I apologise if i offended you because you joined for the right reason. My hat is off to you (really). I just wanted to point out that the motivation for serving the country has changed for many people. They didnt expect a war, and i know of people who thought "Oh shit, this wasnt supposed to happen". Well, thats what they get for taking that oath.

I havent heard of one that has backed down from the challenge, though, So initial motivation aside, it seems most are good people.

But then, I'm generalising again. Maybe i am wrong, i cant know what they are all thinking.

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Stingy Jack
Notice how the Bush-supporters never seem to want to comment on the fact that Bush fucked up the educational system in the US. I guess if you don't talk about it, it'll go away?

Just remember Stingy, you asked for this......

I didn't comment on it because I know that the state of education is NOT George Bush's fault. There was a problem with it long before Bush was elected president. He's just trying to come up with a solution.


Accountability for failing schools sounds great to me... A new way to teach seems to be a good start for those teachers who are letting kids pass when they don't know how to spell.

And of course local control is a good thing too. supplemental educational services for kids in under achieving schools is another great idea.

I'm not big on the testing ( some very smart people choke on tests) but then again...With the results , teachers can craft lessons for kids who need help in certain areas. Seems this plan may help change some of the parents out there who pay no attention to their kids education .

And if I remember correctly, didn't federal school funding jump up 60% or something close to that?

I'm not a teacher so I really can't comment much on that aspect. Although if I were I wouldn't dare assume all teachers in all schools felt the same way I did.

The teachers I have talked to in my kids schools about it are very happy with Bush's no child left behind act. With the exception of a 3rd grade teacher who was very concerned with the stress level of her students the day of their testing. Turned out they all passed.


I do care about what's happening in my kids schools. I have met teachers who have no business teaching and I have met teachers that will undoubtedly leave a positive lasting impression on the kids they teach. I'd really like to see them weeded out for sure. And I'd like to see smaller classrooms and give teachers the option of refusing to teach kids who are constantly interrupting the learning process.

that's about it for this Bush supporter.......

[Gothic-chick]

Originally posted by Vodstok
That was wonderfully lucid and calm gothic :)

Can we say that we agree to disagree? There is always SOME common ground :D


Absolutely!

[Stingy Jack]

Okay, in response to yourlastmistake, I believe I posted way back somewhere that there are some issues that I tend to sway Republican on (I'm not a die-hard Democrat), and one of those issues is welfare reform -- and most other economic issues. But, I get mired down in my feelings particularly when it comes to the area of taxes.

There are two types of taxes in this nation: progressive and regressive.

Progressive tax: The tax percentage is figured according to your income (the rich pay more on a progressive tax, the poor pay less).

Regressive tax: The tax is a fixed percentage regardless of your income (sales tax).

On the one hand, I would say that progressive taxes are unfair. Why should you be forced to pay more simply because you have more money?

Then, I would say that regressive taxes are unfair. It is hard for some people in this nation to buy food, but we tax them on food just as much as we tax people who have no problems buying food.

I understand that the rich may or not "deserve" their money. That is not for us to say, as long as they got it honestly. The fact is, though, that we can't ALL be rich. In fact, the distribution of wealth in this nation is like a pyramid, with the highest percentage of the population at the bottom and the smallest at the top. Unfortunately, the wealth is distributed exactly the opposite, with the greatest amount of money being at the top and the least amount at the bottom. And the only way that the folks at the bottom can get any of the wealth at the top is through the "trickle-down" method of taxes. The rich pay a lot in taxes, and the poorest of the poor get massive returns.

I can't help but wonder why the rich complain so much when they are taxed more and the poor are taxed less. It's as if they don't want the wealth going ANYWHERE, especially to the poor, working people who keep this nation operating. But, then again, I can't say: "You should pay more taxes! Help out the nation, help our poor, working-class people!" What they should do with their money is not for us to say. It is their money, after all.

But, the rich will say: "Look, my family worked hard to amass this wealth, and I worked hard to build on it. If you want WEALTH in this country, you have to work for it!" I argue with this as well. Nobody works harder in this nation than the working class. And it certainly isn't that difficult to build on your wealth once you have it. Just invest it and let it accrue intrest.

So, I would like to hear some thoughts on taxes in the nation. This would help me really decide where I need to go with this. Should I resort to utilitarianism with this issue as well? Taxing the rich more so that more can go to the poor seems like the lesser of the two evils (the other being to give the rich tax breaks, and keep our regressive taxes fully as they are. Personally, I would like to see the nation take regressive taxes off of necessities like food. Tax the nation for their food? That's almost evil.)

[Stingy Jack]

Gothic-Chick: Accountability in failing schools is a horrible idea. Especially when that accountability is put on the faculty and administration. A large percentage of our failing schools are failing because they serve low-income, poverty areas. The kids from these households have a completely different set of values than you or I, and, unfortunately, education figures in very low on this list of values. Most of them figure that they aren't going to get a decent job anyway (which is true), so why bother busting your ass to get a good education? And, unfortunately, you can't get it into these kids that education is more than just preparing for a good job, and that getting a good job is the smallest value of a good education. You can't tell them that. Believe me, I have tried.

Accountability should be heaviest on the student and on the parent of the student. Most parent-teacher nights, I will sit there for three hours, failing kids all over the place in my gradebook, and maybe three parents will come through my door, all of them parents of passing children. Sad, but true.

And you're right, high-stakes testing is horrible as well. For one, standardized tests do little to show all that the child has learned. They test to see if the child can remember facts. That is all. But you also raised a good point when you said that you have known very smart people choke on tests. This is true! The higher the stakes, the more stress is involved, the worse the student is going to do. Plain and simple. We can keep lowering the bar on these tests, but doing that just defeats the whole purpose of administering the test to begin with!

And I agree that the state of education in this country was pretty bad before Bush intervened, but I'm afraid his "solution" made it worse. The top educators and education professionals in the nation tried to inform him on the pointlessness of his act, but he just couldn't see it.

When he was elected, one of my English Ed. professors at the University came to class wearing all black, as if in mourning. He knew Bush would screw it up, and he did.

[Vodstok]

Growing up in Department Oof Defense schools, i had to take CTBS standardised tests my whole childhood. They blew a week on those things every year. I always scored extremely high, especially in English and Science, but they never did anything, as far as i can tell.

I caught a lot of shit from my parents because my scores didnt really reflect my grades. I was smarter than my grades would indicate. Yes, i was very apathetic towards school. i learned more on my own, anyway.

I'm not sure what my point was, but all i ever saw as a result of these tests was arrogant smart kids and slower kids with even less self esteem.

[HappyCamper]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Sorry about the Rant I really dislike politcians in general, especially the 2 party system.

Hey we all have to rant at times! I agree with you 100% , i fucking HATE politicians! And I hate that we ONLY have 2 choices! I'm registered as a Libertarian, unfortunately I think this country is a long ways away from a third party ever getting elected. Even though the particular party i'm registered with has increased in numbers by 1/4 % over the last four years.

[Arioch]

He used coke and got a drunk driving charge. You've never done any drugs?

Ya but IM not running for president:rolleyes:

I will respond to the rest of your points when im not multitasking to this degree....but i HAD to address that right there....

[Vodstok]

I have never done any drugs, and never drove drunk.

[Stingy Jack]

Originally posted by Vodstok
I have never done any drugs, and never drove drunk.

Same here.

[ShankS]

I admit to driving stoned a few times when I was a student.... but absolutely no way!! would I ever drive if I've had any drink.

If I do have to drive to the pub/bar, I'll stick to soft drinks and watch every one else go through the stages of drunkeness.... it's quite funny to watch cos you can tell them what they did the next day. :D

[HappyCamper]

'i bet you use a playlist! I rolled my into a big fattie and smoked it!

GTA: ViceCity V Rock radio station

[yourlastmistake]

Originally posted by Arioch
Ya but IM not running for president:rolleyes:

I will respond to the rest of your points when im not multitasking to this degree....but i HAD to address that right there....

I've been a bit busy myself lately. Don't worry I'm just getting started.

[yourlastmistake]

I'm feeling a bit lazy so I'll start with this. War for oil. I wonder how many of you bought into that hype? Maybe its really
"No War for oil". Look at the players involved here. Some of you people need to open you eyes. Sometimes you have to search for the truth. Seriously............. read this. Its from THE WEEK.

Click (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/chlorineX/page.jpg)




I would like some comments on this. Click on article to enlarge.

[yourlastmistake]

Thanks for the tax lesson Stingy.

[yourlastmistake]

The question was ...... Youve never done any drugs,Youve never drank to get drunk? Not have you been drunk and drove a car.
Alcohol is not a drug ? Maybe you guys dont consider it a drug because its legal. There are more lives and families destroyed by alcohol and its addiction than any other drug I bet. At least in the U.S. But thats another subject .

[yourlastmistake]

No comments yet on the article ?

[allmykids]

Originally posted by yourlastmistake
No comments yet on the article ?

I clicked on it but it was still to small to read, But I will say this I don't give a dam Why we where at war with Iraq Sadam and his sons needed to be taken out!!! They where just as bad as Hitler!! I do think we need to pull out our Troops Now!!! Sorry about my spelling!!! :(

[Scarymovie411]

Kerry all the waaaaaaaaaaaaay.....

[Arioch]

Alcohol is not a drug ? Maybe you guys dont consider it a drug because its legal. There are more lives and families destroyed by alcohol and its addiction than any other drug I bet. At least in the U.S. But thats another subject .


I've always felt that EXACT same way about alcohol and its effects on the body....people who say its different from other drugs are full of shit....IMHO...

[yourlastmistake]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/chlorineX/page.jpg

[MrShape]

Personally, I've been disgusted by both the Republicans and the Democarts for years now. I seldom vote for either. I'll probably vote for Micheal Badnarik, the Libertarian canidate. They're the only party around without a censorship agenda to push.

[KRUGERKID13]

bush all the fing way imo one of our greatest leaders

[Freddy_Voorhees]

George Bush all the way

[juanhacko]

Although I consider myself a Republican I have never voted a straight ticket--how mindless.

But I'm NOT voting for Bush.