Day of the Dead (1978) Question

[Sculpt]

Correction -- I meant DAWN Of the Dead.

Ah, this is what this website is potent at... asking horror fans a question about a classic film!

At the beginning of Dawn at the Dead, this police/national guard/militia force enters a housing project to kill the undead zombies inside. In one scene, that no one would forget, and militia/police dude kicks in a door and blows the head off a black individual.

The question is: was it a zombie... or was it a regular person, a non-infected, not a zombie individual?

Before the 'police force' went in, this dude was using racial epithets, and had just shot at a black dude who was not a zombie, and then kicked in an apartment door and shot the head off a black dude, and the other police said he was "going ape-shit". So, I think, but am not sure, we are to have the impression that it was not a zombie. However, looking closely at the face/head being blown off, which is a model, it most definitely has a blue hue to it, which would make it a zombie (as the zombies have blue makeup on). But maybe, since it's a model, they tried to make it a black man, but the makeup they used was what was available, and had blue tones to it... but they didn't intend that 'he' look like a zombie...

I think the intention of writer/director Romero, is that it was a regular human (which was my impression 30-plus years ago). But the model is definitely has a blue-ish tone. So I don't know. What do you think?

[LuvablePsycho]

Do you mean Dawn of the Dead? :P

And I haven't seen the movie in years but I remember thinking it was a normal human and that the racist cop shot him and the black woman screaming in horror.

[Sculpt]

Do you mean Dawn of the Dead? :P

And I haven't seen the movie in years but I remember thinking it was a normal human and that the racist cop shot him and the black woman screaming in horror.
Yes, I meant Dawn of the Dead.

Agreed, I think that's the situation being setup (that it was a normal person), but the model was too blue.

[LuvablePsycho]

Yes, I meant Dawn of the Dead.

Agreed, I think that's the situation being setup (that it was a normal person), but the model was too blue.

Yeah the special effects in that movie were terrible to be honest. I feel like Tom Savini did a much better job on the special effects in Day of the Dead and Friday the 13th. He must have learned from his mistakes in Dawn of the Dead, or maybe they had a better budget to work with in those other movies?

[Bloof]

I think the racist cop shot him before even realizing he was a zombie. So, yes, he was a zombie but thats not why the racist cop shot him.

[Oro13]

“ Wooley’s gone apeshit, man!”

It was setting up the inevitable “ Man vs. Man/Who Are the Real Monsters “ plot point that all zombie flicks ultimately end up incorporating into the third act. Demonstrating the increasing number of people becoming unhinged during the zombie apocalypse.

The first taste is subtle, in the beginning of the film, with people mocking and heckling the man being interviewed at the tv station. People are scared and want logic and solutions for something that has no explanation. Clinging to society as it starts to crumble under the reality of the plague of the dead spreads across the country.

It then escalates as the raid on the apartment building shows us people who are defending their home and locking up zombified friends and family, refusing to “ kill “ them. The police try to maintain peace while their ranks either degenerate into rampaging psychopaths, can’t face the horror of the world anymore and commit suicide, or ultimately abandon their post to strike out on their own in favor of self preservation.

Lastly, we have the raiding party that shows up in the end of the film. Essentially a band of people gone full on Road Warrior, and have embraced the nomadic lifestyle of constantly moving from place to place, robbing/murdering others for their resources, essentially embracing the anarchy and lawlessness the military and government left in the wake of their absence.

And in the end, all that’s left are the living dead. Wandering through the remains of civilization and feasting on the cooling bodies of those who were unable to flee fast enough to somewhere secluded, where they can slowly wait for the end. As nature wipes the slate clean and retakes the earth. At least, that’s my interpretation. Oh Romero, you so social commentary-y

[LuvablePsycho]

“ Wooley’s gone apeshit, man!”

It was setting up the inevitable “ Man vs. Man/Who Are the Real Monsters “ plot point that all zombie flicks ultimately end up incorporating into the third act. Demonstrating the increasing number of people becoming unhinged during the zombie apocalypse.

The first taste is subtle, in the beginning of the film, with people mocking and heckling the man being interviewed at the tv station. People are scared and want logic and solutions for something that has no explanation. Clinging to society as it starts to crumble under the reality of the plague of the dead spreads across the country.

It then escalates as the raid on the apartment building shows us people who are defending their home and locking up zombified friends and family, refusing to “ kill “ them. The police try to maintain peace while their ranks either degenerate into rampaging psychopaths, can’t face the horror of the world anymore and commit suicide, or ultimately abandon their post to strike out on their own in favor of self preservation.

Lastly, we have the raiding party that shows up in the end of the film. Essentially a band of people gone full on Road Warrior, and have embraced the nomadic lifestyle of constantly moving from place to place, robbing/murdering others for their resources, essentially embracing the anarchy and lawlessness the military and government left in the wake of their absence.

And in the end, all that’s left are the living dead. Wandering through the remains of civilization and feasting on the cooling bodies of those who were unable to flee fast enough to somewhere secluded, where they can slowly wait for the end. As nature wipes the slate clean and retakes the earth. At least, that’s my interpretation. Oh Romero, you so social commentary-y

Yep, Romero loved his social commentary. I think that each of his zombie movies pretty much gave the same message that society is doomed to fail. Every powerful empire like Rome, Egypt, China, and Britain eventually collapsed and the United States won't be any different.

[Oro13]

Yep, Romero loved his social commentary. I think that each of his zombie movies pretty much gave the same message that society is doomed to fail. Every powerful empire like Rome, Egypt, China, and Britain eventually collapsed and the United States won't be any different.

I see what you mean, though I don’t really think it’s social-political in as much as it is social-existential commentary.

I always took it as humanity as a whole will fail, and that we will be our own downfall if ( and when ) we turn on each other. A classic morality/cautionary tale about our own inability to coexist amidst turmoil and get over our penchant for petty jealousy and being consumerist sheep, in the face of a greater threat.

[Sculpt]

“ Wooley’s gone apeshit, man!”

It was setting up the inevitable “ Man vs. Man/Who Are the Real Monsters “ plot point that all zombie flicks ultimately end up incorporating into the third act. Demonstrating the increasing number of people becoming unhinged during the zombie apocalypse.

The first taste is subtle, in the beginning of the film, with people mocking and heckling the man being interviewed at the tv station. People are scared and want logic and solutions for something that has no explanation. Clinging to society as it starts to crumble under the reality of the plague of the dead spreads across the country.

It then escalates as the raid on the apartment building shows us people who are defending their home and locking up zombified friends and family, refusing to “ kill “ them. The police try to maintain peace while their ranks either degenerate into rampaging psychopaths, can’t face the horror of the world anymore and commit suicide, or ultimately abandon their post to strike out on their own in favor of self preservation.

Lastly, we have the raiding party that shows up in the end of the film. Essentially a band of people gone full on Road Warrior, and have embraced the nomadic lifestyle of constantly moving from place to place, robbing/murdering others for their resources, essentially embracing the anarchy and lawlessness the military and government left in the wake of their absence.

And in the end, all that’s left are the living dead. Wandering through the remains of civilization and feasting on the cooling bodies of those who were unable to flee fast enough to somewhere secluded, where they can slowly wait for the end. As nature wipes the slate clean and retakes the earth. At least, that’s my interpretation. Oh Romero, you so social commentary-y
I was curious about that... When the police setup around the housing project and used a megaphone telling them to come out (I think)... there's armed men that come out and shoot at the police. I didn't understand who they were or why they were shooting at the police. I even thought they might be gang members defending their turf.

So you're saying they were trying to defend the zombies and bodies who were their family members? How do you know that specifically? What scene says what? I missed it.

I noticed there were those bodies and zombies in the cage in the basement, but I guess I wasn't paying attention well enough to get what was going on. I guess I was still a Romero zombie when I first saw it, and partly now.

[LuvablePsycho]

I was curious about that... When the police setup around the housing project and used a megaphone telling them to come out (I think)... there's armed men that come out and shoot at the police. I didn't understand who they were or why they were shooting at the police. I even thought they might be gang members defending their turf.

So you're saying they were trying to defend the zombies and bodies who were their family members? How do you know that specifically? What scene says what? I missed it.

I noticed there were those bodies and zombies in the cage in the basement, but I guess I wasn't paying attention well enough to get what was going on. I guess I was still a Romero zombie when I first saw it, and partly now.

I think he was right, I think the scene was set up to make us think that it was cops fighting another typical gang of criminals but it was actually just people wanting to protect their dead loved ones from being killed again. In fact in the basement when the two cops saw all the zombies kept locked up the one guy asked "Why were they keeping them here?" and the other cop said "Because they still believe there's respect in dying.", so yeah.

Romero did a similar scene in Diary of the Dead where an old couple were keeping their dead family members locked in a room and some soldiers got angry because one of them got bitten and they decided to murder the old couple in cold blood.

[Oro13]

I was curious about that... When the police setup around the housing project and used a megaphone telling them to come out (I think)... there's armed men that come out and shoot at the police. I didn't understand who they were or why they were shooting at the police. I even thought they might be gang members defending their turf.

So you're saying they were trying to defend the zombies and bodies who were their family members? How do you know that specifically? What scene says what? I missed it.

I noticed there were those bodies and zombies in the cage in the basement, but I guess I wasn't paying attention well enough to get what was going on. I guess I was still a Romero zombie when I first saw it, and partly now.

From the plot synopsis:
“ Confusion reigns at the WGON television studio in Philadelphia by the phenomenon's third week, where staff members Stephen Andrews and Francine Parker are planning to steal the station's traffic helicopter to escape the city. Meanwhile, police SWAT officer Roger DiMarco and his team raid a housing project where the residents are defying the martial law of delivering their dead to National Guardsmen. Some residents fight back with handguns and rifles, and are killed by both the overzealous SWAT team and their own reanimated dead. During the raid, Roger meets Peter Washington, part of another SWAT team, and they partner up together. Roger tells Peter that his friend Stephen intends to steal his workplace's helicopter and flee, and suggests that Peter come with them. They are informed of a group of zombies trapped in the basement, which they assist in the grim job of destroying. “

I think he was right, I think the scene was set up to make us think that it was cops fighting another typical gang of criminals but it was actually just people wanting to protect their dead loved ones from being killed again. In fact in the basement when the two cops saw all the zombies kept locked up the one guy asked "Why were they keeping them here?" and the other cop said "Because they still believe there's respect in dying.", so yeah.

^Exactly.
You think it’s a stand-off with the police at first, a typical gunfight breaks out. But then they discover there are rooms full of zombies that were sealed up ( “ Not that room, NOT THAT ROOM!” ) and then the basement where it’s obvious that they are keeping them locked up and restrained.

[LuvablePsycho]

I loved the concept of Dawn of the Dead being about a group of survivors turning a shopping mall into a shelter from zombies. I feel like that would be the perfect kind of shelter for obvious reasons.

[Sculpt]

I loved the concept of Dawn of the Dead being about a group of survivors turning a shopping mall into a shelter from zombies. I feel like that would be the perfect kind of shelter for obvious reasons.
Supplies and protection from slow-zombies... but lousy protection for a few foks against a big murading biker gang. ::big grin::

[LuvablePsycho]

Supplies and protection from slow-zombies... but lousy protection for a few foks against a big murading biker gang. ::big grin::

Lol true. Humans really are more dangerous than the zombies. ::big grin::

[LuvablePsycho]

Speaking of "Day of the Dead", that used to be one of my favorite movies by George A. Romero and it still is, but I find it very strange that some people actually view Captain Rhodes as the real hero of the movie. I mean why??? That guy was clearly a villain! He was a murderous bastard on a power trip.

I guess those people must have hated the other characters like Sarah, John, Billy, and Miguel because they were a liberal-ish collection of united colors. Yeah that must be it...

[Sculpt]

Speaking of "Day of the Dead", that used to be one of my favorite movies by George A. Romero and it still is, but I find it very strange that some people actually view Captain Rhodes as the real hero of the movie. I mean why??? That guy was clearly a villain! He was a murderous bastard on a power trip.

I guess those people must have hated the other characters like Sarah, John, Billy, and Miguel because they were a liberal-ish collection of united colors. Yeah that must be it...
Yeah, that's weird, I didn't know some folks saw Captain Rhodes as a hero. Dr Frankenstein was doing some good research there, but the other scientists needed to be using the research in more practical ways. Something practical, like how to get the zombies to flee, or get attracted to something other than live humans, zaps to the brain that work to save ammo, whatevs

[LuvablePsycho]

Yeah, that's weird, I didn't know some folks saw him as a hero. Dr Frankenstein was doing some good research there, but the other scientists needed to be using the research in more practical ways. Something practical, like how to get the zombies to flee, or get attracted to something other than live humans, zaps to the brain that work to save ammo, whatevs

Yeah apparently there are some fans of the movie who think of Captain Rhodes as the good guy who was "running that monkey farm" and they think of characters like Sarah and John as being some sort of Mary Sues who reflect George Romero's mostly liberal views (black guy hero and feminist heroine). Because you know, everybody hates liberals nowadays. I guess they would rather admire a sexist, racist, power-tripping army guy who shoots the last human survivors and abandons his own men to get eaten alive by zombies so that he can save his own ass...

Oh and as for Dr. Logan, I thought of him as a villain too but not as a particularly evil one. I mean for one thing he never actually killed anybody unlike Rhodes, and his biggest evil was basically chopping up already dead soldiers for his experiments and using them as dog food to reward his zombie specimens like Bub. It was very inhumane but you can't deny that he was getting results unlike Sarah and Fisher and I don't think that the scientists and soldiers ever considered for a moment that the zombies they were taunting and experimenting on were once human beings too. I saw him as more of a mad scientist but compared to somebody like Rhodes he wasn't as evil.

[Sculpt]

Yeah apparently there are some fans of the movie who think of Captain Rhodes as the good guy who was "running that monkey farm" and they think of characters like Sarah and John as being some sort of Mary Sues who reflect George Romero's mostly liberal views (black guy hero and feminist heroine). Because you know, everybody hates liberals nowadays. I guess they would rather admire a sexist, racist, power-tripping army guy who shoots the last human survivors and abandons his own men to get eaten alive by zombies so that he can save his own ass...

Oh and as for Dr. Logan, I thought of him as a villain too but not as a particularly evil one. I mean for one thing he never actually killed anybody unlike Rhodes, and his biggest evil was basically chopping up already dead soldiers for his experiments and using them as dog food to reward his zombie specimens like Bub. It was very inhumane but you can't deny that he was getting results unlike Sarah and Fisher and I don't think that the scientists and soldiers ever considered for a moment that the zombies they were taunting and experimenting on were once human beings too. I saw him as more of a mad scientist but compared to somebody like Rhodes he wasn't as evil.
Exactly. Dr Logan was the classic Mad Scientist, secretly trying to chopup and feed the bodies of recently dead soldiers to the zombies for his experiments... the guy was a dead man when they found out -- so classic book smart but totally foolish in human society. His immorality was his complete disregard for the values of soldiers when it got in the way of what experiments he wanted to do.

If Dr Logan asked, the soldiers may have been willing to donate their own bodies (when/if they died), being it's a pretty desperate situation.

It was fine for Sarah to research for a cure longterm, but the scientists had to be working part-time on some practical results, if for no other reason than to save their own skins.

One of the more interesting things in the movie was Rasta guy, who presented an interesting case for enjoying a life as a human on Earth, and leaving "chasing of useless answers" alone. He had a pretty good speech. Not that I'm saying I agree with it, but part of the sentiment I do.

[LuvablePsycho]

Exactly. Dr Logan was the classic Mad Scientist, secretly trying to chopup and feed the bodies of recently dead soldiers to the zombies for his experiments... the guy was a dead man when they found out -- so classic book smart but totally foolish in human society. His immorality was his complete disregard for the values of soldiers when it got in the way of what experiments he wanted to do.

If Dr Logan asked, the soldiers may have been willing to donate their own bodies (when/if they died), being it's a pretty desperate situation.

It was fine for Sarah to research for a cure longterm, but the scientists had to be working part-time on some practical results, if for no other reason than to save their own skins.

One of the more interesting things in the movie was Rasta guy, who presented an interesting case for enjoying a life as a human on Earth, and leaving "chasing of useless answers" alone. He had a pretty good speech. Not that I'm saying I agree with it, but part of the sentiment I do.

Well given the fact that Rhodes was being completely unreasonable with his orders I doubt they would have approved of his request.

Oh and I didn't really agree with John's view on life I was more on Sarah's side because I believe it IS mankind's job to figure out how the world works. But then again that might just be the atheist in me talking lol. I believe that in the long run science is supposed to do a lot of good for the world and I think that Sarah felt the same way as a scientist even though she wasn't accomplishing anything. But I did like the fact that she and John could still be friends and cooperate for survival even though they had different opinions about the world. That is the real key to human survival: learning to work together despite your differences.

[LuvablePsycho]

Another character I thought was interesting was Steel. He was kind of like Rhodes because of the way he treated Miguel like garbage for being Hispanic and Sarah for being a woman, but unlike Rhodes there was still a bit of humanity left in him.

Like when Rhodes ordered him to shoot Sarah for trying to walk away you could tell that he didn't want to actually shoot her despite the fact that he didn't like her but he was willing to do it just so that Rhodes wouldn't shoot him. He was also deeply effected by seeing two of his fellow soldiers get killed and having to mercy kill one of them to keep him from coming back as a zombie. Then there was that scene of him getting bitten by a zombie and realizing that there was no chance for him so he did a cross sign over himself before shooting himself in the head as the zombies kept approaching. That was a very powerful scene in my opinion.

I guess I actually felt more sympathy towards Steel than I did Rhodes. He was an asshole too but unlike Rhodes he seemed more redeemable.