Leatherface: The Dystopian Boogeyman

[Abishai100]

In days of old, the curious thrill-seeker and casual Earth detective went searching for the famed Abominable Snowman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeti), a humanoid ape creature said to be an evolutionary deviant and living high up in snowy mountains.

In today's world, people are curious about the urban phantom --- i.e., "Who is the new Jack the Ripper (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper)?" That's because in today's world, pedestrian traffic is of high concern.

America is the land of great multi-cultural traffic, and Americans know their country is marked by variegated terrain (swamps, mountains, prairies, deserts, beaches, cities, suburbs, you name it).

Hollywood (USA) makes thoroughfare-consciousness films such as "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" [1974] and "Coming to America" [1988], films that designate a new focus on a profound sense of place and how people view the crossing of space.

So who exactly is the new Jack the Ripper?

In this thread, I propose that Leatherface, the fictional chainsaw-wielding cannibal from the popular Texas Chainsaw Massacre horror film franchise, is the new phantom (or Jack the Ripper).

While Leatherface is not real (while Jack the Ripper was a real serial killer), media/movie images of violence-glorification ominously suggest that an impressionable or psychologically troubled individual just might find the gumption (and mania) to don the mask and mantle of Leatherface one Halloween and go on an American killing spree (with a chainsaw).

Copycat crimes are a problem in the modern age. We remember the news stories of copycat crimes modelled after scenes from the controversial Hollywood (USA) film "Natural Born Killers" [1994].

If someone were to 'copy' Leatherface, he just might *be* Leatherface.

After all, Leatherface (from the original 1974 Tobe Hooper film) is something like a cross between the Wolfman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wolf_Man_(1941_film)) and the Tin Man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_Woodman).

Leatherface stalks random passerby in Texas who happen to cross his path.

Leatherface represents a pedestrian paranoia about poor navigation. Leatherface's chainsaw symbolizes a human angst about weapon/power mismanagement.

So if Jack the Ripper and the Abominable Snowman preyed on our sensibilities about surroundings, Leatherface haunts our fears about basic trust, making him the new Boogeyman.

Therefore, we should be wary (with a degree of irony) about the possibility that a masked Leatherface copycat ghoul may be lurking, waiting to push us into this new age of pedestrian angst.



Welcome to the new age!






::EEK!::

LEATHERFACE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leatherface)




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Leatherfaceentertainmentweekly.jpg

[Dead Bad Things]

Alltho it bein' pretty arcane, this here's my pick......

[MichaelMyers]

While Leatherface is not real (while Jack the Ripper was a real serial killer),
Copycat crimes are a problem in the modern age.


There is a disclaimer at the beginning of TCM saying the story is based on true events. And, without revealing too much, I have encountered Leatherface personally.

[Sculpt]

There is a disclaimer at the beginning of TCM saying the story is based on true events. And, without revealing too much, I have encountered Leatherface personally.
Did you call DCF? It takes a village, Yo.

[Abishai100]

Leatherface's chainsaw obviously makes him a symbolic hellraiser, but it also seems his eerie predilection to make masks made out of human skin makes him a symbolic witch of some kind.

The skin-mask 'aesthetic' choice does not really seem to be a masquerade (e.g., Halloween/Michael Myers) oriented intelligence/imagination but rather a conscious intention to appear unholy.

Doesn't it seem under such criterion that Leatherface is more like Freddy Krueger, while Michael Myers is more like Jason?

Strange...

[MichaelMyers]

Leatherface's chainsaw obviously makes him a symbolic hellraiser, but it also seems his eerie predilection to make masks made out of human skin makes him a symbolic witch of some kind.

The skin-mask 'aesthetic' choice does not really seem to be a masquerade (e.g., Halloween/Michael Myers) oriented intelligence/imagination but rather a conscious intention to appear unholy.

Doesn't it seem under such criterion that Leatherface is more like Freddy Krueger, while Michael Myers is more like Jason?

Strange...

I believe Hooper is pointing us to the Holocaust with Leatherface's use of human skin.

[Sculpt]

I believe Hooper is pointing us to the Holocaust with Leatherface's use of human skin.

Ya really think so? Cause Ed Gein covers it. And the writers mentioned Gein, Vietnam, etc, but not the Holocaust.

[Oro13]

I heard an interview with Toby Hooper, in which he mentioned that the inspiration for Leatherface arose from two things.

First, he went on to relate a story the family doctor had told him about having once " skinned off a cadaver's face ", cured it, and wore it to a Halloween party.

Second, he said he ( basically ) wanted to have the film feature " a whole family of Ed Geins ". When you examine each individual family member, you will find that they all incorporate seperate aspects of The Ghoul of Plainfield.

[Abishai100]

There is a disclaimer at the beginning of TCM saying the story is based on true events. And, without revealing too much, I have encountered Leatherface personally.

Haha. There are numerous circulated stories of how Leatherface was loosely based on the real life exploits of deranged American serial killer Ed Gein (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Gein), who made things out of body parts and even used them as ornaments or cooking ingredients.

But hey if you're using Ed Gein, you might as well think about the Holocaust, that weird family doctor, or even that weird guy from high school (maybe you're the weird guy!).

Incidentally, in terms of realism, in the original Hooper film, Leatherface uses two pronounced weapons --- obviously, his symbolic terrifying buzzing chainsaw but also a mighty and devastating mini-sledgehammer.

Leatherface wielding a sledgehammer highlights the ghoul's mastery over pure devastation (of the flesh), while the chainsaw represents his 'control' over anarchy and murder (since a chainsaw is both efficient and powerful).

In the Hooper film, Leatherface kills two young men with his sledgehammer but one young man (Franklin, in a wheelchair) with his chainsaw.

The brutal realism of murder and panic created by the sledgehammer and chainsaw signify Hooper's focus on the relentlessness of Leatherface's mania.

Other directors have reinterpreted this use of weapons-based realism. In TCM 3 (1990) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leatherface:_The_Texas_Chainsaw_Massacre_III), Leatherface's chainsaw is presented more as a mystical wand like Excalibur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur).





::cool::

[MichaelMyers]

Abishai the saw does kind of look like a sword come to think of it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/04/TCM3.jpg/220px-TCM3.jpg

[Abishai100]

Indeed it does. Leatherface is really a sort of modern era gargoyle.

That's why I wanted to draw attention to the two depictions of the iconic American horror film psycho presented in the attached image in this post.

On the left is the well-known image of Leatherface running down the street from his house in suit-and-tie from the original Tobe Hooper film, and fans have re-presented the film-still by presenting it in black-and-white.

On the right is another iconic scene from the Hooper film in which Leatherface is eerily ripping apart a human victim on a table while a female victim hangs screaming on a metal hook behind the ghoul.

The image on the left symbolizes the brutishness of Leatherface, a creep in a suit-and-tie (probably a spin on the old 'wolf-in-sheep's-clothing' adage). The image on the right symbolizes the hellish purgatory created by Leatherface's terrible deeds.

So the two images do seem to suggest that we really have *two* renditions of Leatherface:

1. the psychosis 'diplomat'
2. the terror 'angel'

This 'philosophical bifurcation' implies that Leatherface is a sort of demon-knight, which is why perhaps we associate the psycho's chainsaw with a 'doomsayer sword' (e.g., Excalibur (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur)).

IMO, Leatherface is the modern Grendel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grendel).


::EEK!::

[anglewitch]

Oh, I thought leatherface was some member of crazy cannibalistic family that like making head cheese out of people for a living.

[Abishai100]

Oh, I thought leatherface was some member of crazy cannibalistic family that like making head cheese out of people for a living.

Well, it's not like that's an exaggeration. Tobe Hooper gave the world an image of pure mania in Leatherface.

If ever you were spooked about your car breaking down in the afternoon while on a cross-country drive, forcing you to use the telephone at a strange-looking house, you really feel the goosebumps now --- i.e., "Let's hope Leatherface doesn't live there!"

I mean, what do American comic book superheroes such as Green Arrow (DC Comics), a super-archer, and Spider-Man (Marvel Comics), a web-soaring urban vigilante, symbolize? They represent partly our gratitude for cops and firefighters and those who are real heroes in civilization.

Well, Leatherface represents the super-infamous criminal (or 'bad guy') --- i.e., Charles Manson, Adolf Hitler, Ted Bundy, etc.

That's why I like the description of Arkham Asylum (DC Comics) (http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Arkham_Asylum), a fictional housing center for the criminally insane and the place where the masked urban crusader Batman places his criminally insane adversaries for study/treatment.

Arkham helps us understand the ethics characterization complications in society art that reflect controversial portrayals of 'intolerable evil.'


::devil::

[Abishai100]

A key feature of Leatherface is his chainsaw. So this post is meant to raise the question, "What would Leatherface be without his chainsaw?"

1. Leatherface has used weapons other than a chainsaw (e.g., sledgehammer)
2. Fictional warriors/characters in horror/fantasy/adventure films have also used chainsaws --- e.g., Army of Darkness, The Running Man
3. If a 'copycat killer' used a chainsaw, we wouldn't automatically call him 'Leatherface'
4. The chainsaw is still a 'normal' tool, so technically, anyone can use it


So what if we invented a horror story fictional psycho who also used a chainsaw but for very different reasons? Would we still compare him to Leatherface?

Personally speaking, Leatherface gave me the goosebumps about the destructive power of chainsaws.



====

Sam was a strange American man of 30 years of age. He worked at Home Depot and advised on the tools and hardware section. Sam's alcoholic father died when he was young, and he was raised by his emotionally deranged mother whom he loved very much until the day she died. Sam never met someone he could take in as a wife and preferred the simple quiet life. He loved horror-comics and was a big fan of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre horror film franchise, which presented stories of a chainsaw-wielding cannibal named Leatherface who wore a mask made out of the skin of his human victims. Sam was a true American eccentric.

One Saturday morning, as Sam was about to return a copy of a horror film to a video store, a runaway dog ran up to him and bit him in the knee (not seriously). Sam nevertheless had to go to the hospital to get the bite treated, and the trauma of the incident forever changed the way Sam looked at the animal kingdom. Sam decided to pick up a copy of the nature-conscious book Walden (Thoreau) and critique why human beings were so willing to praise the magic and enchantment of nature and animals. After reading the book, Sam decided he wanted to be the opposite of Thoreau.

Sam picked up a sturdy chainsaw from the Home Depot and brought it home for Thanksgiving. He then fashioned a mask for his face made out of turkey feathers. Sam started calling himself the Animal Demon. Sam decided that as the Animal Demon, he would bring pure eeriness and angst towards animals on planet Earth. He would create this terror and mayhem with his new chainsaw. Sam realized that as Animal Demon, he had become something like the 'spiritual brother' (or demonic brother!) of Leatherface. Over the next four years, Sam killed countless dogs, cats, cows, sheep, rodents, badgers, and rabbits with his chainsaw.

A young boy named Timmy who had a dog named Lassie whom he cherished lived near Sam and would sometimes hear the sound of a chainsaw coming from Sam's basement. Timmy decided to go explore the house with his dog Lassie on Christmas Day and present the strange neighbour with a gift of cookies for the holiday season. To his horror, a man (Sam) in a turkey-feather mask opened the door, carrying a bloody chainsaw. In the background, Timmy could hear the sound of clucking chickens. Timmy screamed and Lassie started barking really loudly and tried to bite the man (Sam) on his leg. As the man (Sam) turned his chainsaw on in rage, Timmy ran and simply hoped Lassie was running with him.

When Timmy got home he shut the door behind him and locked it but realized Lassie was nowhere to be seen. Thinking that Sam (the 'Animal Demon') had caught and was killing Lassie, Timmy called the police and within 15 minutes, the police arrived to inspect Sam's house with Timmy and his parents, in search of Lassie. When police searched Sam's house, they found Lassie tied up and squealing (though unhurt) in the basement. However, they also found bloody body parts of various animals strewn across the basement. The police realized Sam was a maniac and hauled him off to prison where he got a life sentence.

News reporters asked Timmy if he thought he met the 'real Leatherface,' but Timmy replied that the strange neighbour Sam called himself the 'Animal Demon' and was simply a ghoul who murdered and stalked defenceless animals with his terrifying chainsaw. Timmy grew up and became an animal rights activist, and Sam (the Animal Demon) died in prison. Timmy always wondered, though, if Sam was in some odd and haunting way, a 'metaphysical brother' of the bizarre fictional chainsaw-wielding cannibal Leatherface.

====



::cool::

[Abishai100]

IMO, the only horror film character that can be paired adequately with Leatherface is Carrie.

Carrie (or Carrie White) is the main character of the Stephen King horror novel which bears her name; she is an emotionally strange American teenager girl who uses her telekinesis to create pure mayhem at her prom when she is treated cruelly. Brian De Palma adapted the Stephen King novel into a very iconic American horror film starring Sissy Spacek.

Like Leatherface, Carrie symbolizes anti-social insanity. They both seem to resent themselves and are not hesitant to take it out on others.

While Michael Myers (from the Halloween horror film series) may be better matched with Leatherface in terms of strength and battle-equivalence, Carrie is the best match for Leatherface in terms of self-loathing.

This is something to consider when analysing why/how Leatherface signifies ugliness. Leatherface is an ugly man, and Carrie is an ugly female (spiritually speaking). It's a match made in heaven or hell.



::cool::

Carrie (Horror Wiki) (http://horror.wikia.com/wiki/Carrie_White)

[Sculpt]

====

Sam was a strange American man of 30 years of age. He worked at Home Depot and advised on the tools and hardware section. Sam's alcoholic father died when he was young, and he was raised by his emotionally deranged mother whom he loved very much until the day she died. Sam never met someone he could take in as a wife and preferred the simple quiet life. He loved horror-comics and was a big fan of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre horror film franchise, which presented stories of a chainsaw-wielding cannibal named Leatherface who wore a mask made out of the skin of his human victims. Sam was a true American eccentric.

One Saturday morning, as Sam was about to return a copy of a horror film to a video store, a runaway dog ran up to him and bit him in the knee (not seriously). Sam nevertheless had to go to the hospital to get the bite treated, and the trauma of the incident forever changed the way Sam looked at the animal kingdom. Sam decided to pick up a copy of the nature-conscious book Walden (Thoreau) and critique why human beings were so willing to praise the magic and enchantment of nature and animals. After reading the book, Sam decided he wanted to be the opposite of Thoreau.

Sam picked up a sturdy chainsaw from the Home Depot and brought it home for Thanksgiving. He then fashioned a mask for his face made out of turkey feathers. Sam started calling himself the Animal Demon. Sam decided that as the Animal Demon, he would bring pure eeriness and angst towards animals on planet Earth. He would create this terror and mayhem with his new chainsaw. Sam realized that as Animal Demon, he had become something like the 'spiritual brother' (or demonic brother!) of Leatherface. Over the next four years, Sam killed countless dogs, cats, cows, sheep, rodents, badgers, and rabbits with his chainsaw.

A young boy named Timmy who had a dog named Lassie whom he cherished lived near Sam and would sometimes hear the sound of a chainsaw coming from Sam's basement. Timmy decided to go explore the house with his dog Lassie on Christmas Day and present the strange neighbour with a gift of cookies for the holiday season. To his horror, a man (Sam) in a turkey-feather mask opened the door, carrying a bloody chainsaw. In the background, Timmy could hear the sound of clucking chickens. Timmy screamed and Lassie started barking really loudly and tried to bite the man (Sam) on his leg. As the man (Sam) turned his chainsaw on in rage, Timmy ran and simply hoped Lassie was running with him.

When Timmy got home he shut the door behind him and locked it but realized Lassie was nowhere to be seen. Thinking that Sam (the 'Animal Demon') had caught and was killing Lassie, Timmy called the police and within 15 minutes, the police arrived to inspect Sam's house with Timmy and his parents, in search of Lassie. When police searched Sam's house, they found Lassie tied up and squealing (though unhurt) in the basement. However, they also found bloody body parts of various animals strewn across the basement. The police realized Sam was a maniac and hauled him off to prison where he got a life sentence.

News reporters asked Timmy if he thought he met the 'real Leatherface,' but Timmy replied that the strange neighbour Sam called himself the 'Animal Demon' and was simply a ghoul who murdered and stalked defenceless animals with his terrifying chainsaw. Timmy grew up and became an animal rights activist, and Sam (the Animal Demon) died in prison. Timmy always wondered, though, if Sam was in some odd and haunting way, a 'metaphysical brother' of the bizarre fictional chainsaw-wielding cannibal Leatherface.

====
::cool::

What the hell is this?

Did you create his fictional story? It's made to sound real, but has no verifiable info. You havent identified it. thanks!

[Dead Bad Things]

Carrie as consort or an arch enemy...?

[Abishai100]

1. the fictional story of the pseudo-Leatherface Sam is supposed to sound real but is in fact simply a monogram used to illuminate the general chainsaw usefulness in storytelling; I made the story, but it's meant to infer chainsaw-war images from already-made films such as Army of Darkness

2. I would say Carrie is first an arch-enemy and then (later) a consort; incidentally, maybe there should be a Freddy vs. Jason type film in which the coupled ghouls actually work together for something


::devil::

[Sculpt]

1. the fictional story of the pseudo-Leatherface Sam is supposed to sound real but is in fact simply a monogram used to illuminate the general chainsaw usefulness in storytelling; I made the story, but it's meant to infer chainsaw-war images from already-made films such as Army of Darkness

2. I would say Carrie is first an arch-enemy and then (later) a consort; incidentally, maybe there should be a Freddy vs. Jason type film in which the coupled ghouls actually work together for something


::devil::
1. nicely written story! i just re-read and understood how you were announcing it.
IMO, the only horror film character that can be paired adequately with Leatherface is Carrie.

Carrie (or Carrie White) is the main character of the Stephen King horror novel which bears her name; she is an emotionally strange American teenager girl who uses her telekinesis to create pure mayhem at her prom when she is treated cruelly. Brian De Palma adapted the Stephen King novel into a very iconic American horror film starring Sissy Spacek.

Like Leatherface, Carrie symbolizes anti-social insanity. They both seem to resent themselves and are not hesitant to take it out on others.

While Michael Myers (from the Halloween horror film series) may be better matched with Leatherface in terms of strength and battle-equivalence, Carrie is the best match for Leatherface in terms of self-loathing.

This is something to consider when analysing why/how Leatherface signifies ugliness. Leatherface is an ugly man, and Carrie is an ugly female (spiritually speaking). It's a match made in heaven or hell.



I agree Leatherface and Carrie symbolizes anti-social insanity, specifically killing innocents. But (based on original films) i dont see either being self-resentful.

I didnt see Leatherface resenting himself, nor making any self commentary. Rather he appears to have no self-analysis.

He did wear a leathermask, but does the film itself indicate why? If a child puts on a mask, is it because of self-loathing? We can attach self-loathing, but I think it presumptive.

I wouldnt characterize Carrie (pre-murderous break) as resenting herself either. She was shy, meek, humble and lacked social skills, and she wanted to become more engaging, but she was not self-resentful. She was unsure of the morality of her telekinesis, but decided it was neutral. She compassionately realized her mom had psychoses. None of these issues were self-resentful.

[anglewitch]

A key feature of Leatherface is his chainsaw. So this post is meant to raise the question, "What would Leatherface be without his chainsaw?"

1. Leatherface has used weapons other than a chainsaw (e.g., sledgehammer)
2. Fictional warriors/characters in horror/fantasy/adventure films have also used chainsaws --- e.g., Army of Darkness, The Running Man
3. If a 'copycat killer' used a chainsaw, we wouldn't automatically call him 'Leatherface'
4. The chainsaw is still a 'normal' tool, so technically, anyone can use it


So what if we invented a horror story fictional psycho who also used a chainsaw but for very different reasons? Would we still compare him to Leatherface?

Personally speaking, Leatherface gave me the goosebumps about the destructive power of chainsaws.



====

Sam was a strange American man of 30 years of age. He worked at Home Depot and advised on the tools and hardware section. Sam's alcoholic father died when he was young, and he was raised by his emotionally deranged mother whom he loved very much until the day she died. Sam never met someone he could take in as a wife and preferred the simple quiet life. He loved horror-comics and was a big fan of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre horror film franchise, which presented stories of a chainsaw-wielding cannibal named Leatherface who wore a mask made out of the skin of his human victims. Sam was a true American eccentric.

One Saturday morning, as Sam was about to return a copy of a horror film to a video store, a runaway dog ran up to him and bit him in the knee (not seriously). Sam nevertheless had to go to the hospital to get the bite treated, and the trauma of the incident forever changed the way Sam looked at the animal kingdom. Sam decided to pick up a copy of the nature-conscious book Walden (Thoreau) and critique why human beings were so willing to praise the magic and enchantment of nature and animals. After reading the book, Sam decided he wanted to be the opposite of Thoreau.

Sam picked up a sturdy chainsaw from the Home Depot and brought it home for Thanksgiving. He then fashioned a mask for his face made out of turkey feathers. Sam started calling himself the Animal Demon. Sam decided that as the Animal Demon, he would bring pure eeriness and angst towards animals on planet Earth. He would create this terror and mayhem with his new chainsaw. Sam realized that as Animal Demon, he had become something like the 'spiritual brother' (or demonic brother!) of Leatherface. Over the next four years, Sam killed countless dogs, cats, cows, sheep, rodents, badgers, and rabbits with his chainsaw.

A young boy named Timmy who had a dog named Lassie whom he cherished lived near Sam and would sometimes hear the sound of a chainsaw coming from Sam's basement. Timmy decided to go explore the house with his dog Lassie on Christmas Day and present the strange neighbour with a gift of cookies for the holiday season. To his horror, a man (Sam) in a turkey-feather mask opened the door, carrying a bloody chainsaw. In the background, Timmy could hear the sound of clucking chickens. Timmy screamed and Lassie started barking really loudly and tried to bite the man (Sam) on his leg. As the man (Sam) turned his chainsaw on in rage, Timmy ran and simply hoped Lassie was running with him.

When Timmy got home he shut the door behind him and locked it but realized Lassie was nowhere to be seen. Thinking that Sam (the 'Animal Demon') had caught and was killing Lassie, Timmy called the police and within 15 minutes, the police arrived to inspect Sam's house with Timmy and his parents, in search of Lassie. When police searched Sam's house, they found Lassie tied up and squealing (though unhurt) in the basement. However, they also found bloody body parts of various animals strewn across the basement. The police realized Sam was a maniac and hauled him off to prison where he got a life sentence.

News reporters asked Timmy if he thought he met the 'real Leatherface,' but Timmy replied that the strange neighbour Sam called himself the 'Animal Demon' and was simply a ghoul who murdered and stalked defenceless animals with his terrifying chainsaw. Timmy grew up and became an animal rights activist, and Sam (the Animal Demon) died in prison. Timmy always wondered, though, if Sam was in some odd and haunting way, a 'metaphysical brother' of the bizarre fictional chainsaw-wielding cannibal Leatherface.

====



::cool::

I have the same reaction as Sculpt up there.

Wtf?

[Abishai100]

1. Yes, well, as stated, the story of the fictional Sam using the chainsaw to hurt animals was only meant to invoke the consideration that we can re-imagine what the actual 'equipment/gear' in horror movies terrify us about (so don't read it too deeply)

2. As per Leatherface and Carrie not being clearly self-resentful, I can offer some more supportive claims; while they are both 'focused/relentless' in what they are doing and are either completely un-evaluative or evaluative in meaningful instances (e.g., Carrie empathizing with her mother's psychosis), they both represent the human mind being completely fragmented by ugliness. While Jason, Lizzie Borden (etc.) are also plagued by ugliness, Leatherface and Carrie seem especially plagued by 'freakish ugliness' (Leatherface is deformed spiritually, while Carrie is driven insane by cruelty). So self-loathing becomes very important in assessing the ostracism (at least) of both of them.

3. Finally, I'd like to point out how (very amusingly) Leatherface and Carrie are both antitheses of James Bond (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bond). It's an odd coincidental truth that while James Bond (a resourceful fictional British secret agent, intelligence officer, and spy) is an 'ethical mercenary,' Leatherface and Carrie are both 'pure survivors.' Feel free to argue!

::EEK!::

[Sculpt]

1. Yes, well, as stated, the story of the fictional Sam using the chainsaw to hurt animals was only meant to invoke the consideration that we can re-imagine what the actual 'equipment/gear' in horror movies terrify us about (so don't read it too deeply)

2. As per Leatherface and Carrie not being clearly self-resentful, I can offer some more supportive claims; while they are both 'focused/relentless' in what they are doing and are either completely un-evaluative or evaluative in meaningful instances (e.g., Carrie empathizing with her mother's psychosis), they both represent the human mind being completely fragmented by ugliness. While Jason, Lizzie Borden (etc.) are also plagued by ugliness, Leatherface and Carrie seem especially plagued by 'freakish ugliness' (Leatherface is deformed spiritually, while Carrie is driven insane by cruelty). So self-loathing becomes very important in assessing the ostracism (at least) of both of them.

3. Finally, I'd like to point out how (very amusingly) Leatherface and Carrie are both antitheses of James Bond (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bond). It's an odd coincidental truth that while James Bond (a resourceful fictional British secret agent, intelligence officer, and spy) is an 'ethical mercenary,' Leatherface and Carrie are both 'pure survivors.' Feel free to argue!

::EEK!::

1. Sorry about that. We get it's a made-up story to re-imagine the setting of the chainsaw and consider the new impression.

I'm with ya, Abishai100. I'm a life long student of symbolism on the United States' collective subconscious. My radio show is based on it.

I don't really have anything to say about the chainsaw's effect on our subconscious beyond what you've said about TCSM's effect.

2. "they both represent the human mind being completely fragmented by ugliness." I'm not sure I agree with that. Let's talk about Carrie. I'll grant you, by her own admission, Carrie doesn't think she's pretty... but I'd like for you to point out anything beyond that. She's rejected, or picked-on, by many other students, but I don't know how you conclude that Carrie believes it's because she's ugly.

Many teens don't believe they're good looking, without believing they're ugly, but rather just plain or average. At mid-film, Carrie is convinced by a kind teacher that she is attractive, which she is.. and I mean in the film depiction she is attractive... it seems obvious she is attractive, and it's not really a big surprise to Carrie.

For anyone who experiences rejection and cruelty from many others, it does weigh on a person that there's something wrong with themselves that we can widely label "ugliness" beyond physical appearance... but I think they also recognize the inner ugliness of the people being cruel. Carrie can understand some of her behaviors have indirectly invited rejection, things she can change and mitigate, but that doesn't mean she thinks herself ugly, or that she self-resents or self-loathes.

We are of course talking about Carrie in the film specifically. Beyond your own speculation, I don't think you have specified how Carrie thought herself ugly in any way at all. Can you give some concrete examples in the film that indicate this?

[Abishai100]

Well, Sculpt, it seems that Carrie's constant imbalanced relationship with her mother creates in her an extra-sensory sensitivity towards social expectations, and that can affect someone's self-image (even if she doesn't specifically think she's ugly in some way).

Here are a few scenes from the 1976 Carrie:

1. Breaking the mirror in some kind of act of mental self-destruction
2. Attacking her mother with flying knives
3. Her social embarrassment in the opening girls high school shower-tragedy scene

Here's a quick short-story about an 'ugliness psychology' perspective on the Carrie/Leatherface duality:

====

Carrie stood soaked in the blood of many US Navy men who had raped her and across her in the hallway of the Navy base was the chainsaw-wielding maniac Leatherface.

CARRIE: I just killed a dozen Navy-men!!
LEATHERFACE: Eat this!
CARRIE: You're sooo ugly!
LEATHERFACE: Uh-uh!!!
CARRIE: Need a mirror?
LEATHERFACE: Woo!
CARRIE: You're dirty!!
LEATHERFACE: Food!

====


::devil::

[Sculpt]

1. I'll give ya the mirror scene. I can't seem to find a clip online, but hard to argue that one.

2. Killing her mom was self-defense, not self-loathing. ::wink::

3. No, Carrie was freaked-out that she was bleeding cause she didn't know about menstruation. She eventually was a bit embarrassed about the whole situation, but that's not self-loathing or seeing oneself as ugly.

"it seems that Carrie's constant imbalanced relationship with her mother creates in her an extra-sensory sensitivity towards social expectations". I'm not sure I know what you mean by that, particularly: "an extra-sensory sensitivity towards social expectations".

It interesting to discuss. But I should say too, Carrie and TCSM aren't really coherent stories and characters to begin with. They've certainly affected the collective subconscious, but, I think, in independent scraps, rather than as coherent wholes.

[anglewitch]

1. Sorry about that. We get it's a made-up story to re-imagine the setting of the chainsaw and consider the new impression.

I'm with ya, Abishai100. I'm a life long student of symbolism on the United States' collective subconscious. My radio show is based on it.

I don't really have anything to say about the chainsaw's effect on our subconscious beyond what you've said about TCSM's effect.

2. "they both represent the human mind being completely fragmented by ugliness." I'm not sure I agree with that. Let's talk about Carrie. I'll grant you, by her own admission, Carrie doesn't think she's pretty... but I'd like for you to point out anything beyond that. She's rejected, or picked-on, by many other students, but I don't know how you conclude that Carrie believes it's because she's ugly.

Many teens don't believe they're good looking, without believing they're ugly, but rather just plain or average. At mid-film, Carrie is convinced by a kind teacher that she is attractive, which she is.. and I mean in the film depiction she is attractive... it seems obvious she is attractive, and it's not really a big surprise to Carrie.

For anyone who experiences rejection and cruelty from many others, it does weigh on a person that there's something wrong with themselves that we can widely label "ugliness" beyond physical appearance... but I think they also recognize the inner ugliness of the people being cruel. Carrie can understand some of her behaviors have indirectly invited rejection, things she can change and mitigate, but that doesn't mean she thinks herself ugly, or that she self-resents or self-loathes.

We are of course talking about Carrie in the film specifically. Beyond your own speculation, I don't think you have specified how Carrie thought herself ugly in any way at all. Can you give some concrete examples in the film that indicate this?


18644

[Sculpt]

http://www.horror.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18644&d=1474750379




https://media.giphy.com/media/MRLc0oJPeTcIw/giphy.gif

[Abishai100]

Here's an interesting (creative) consideration.

Since Leatherface represents maniacal fear, we are invited to ask, "How would one go about catching the monster?"

Well, we know from the films that Leatherface can become overburdened by his cumbersome chainsaw (that dang thing!). In the original Hooper film and the 2003 re-make, the chainsaw fell on his own leg when he fell down, gashing it deeply.

Therefore, we have to find a way to reveal why that chainsaw of his SUCH a burden to him (that seems to be the only way!).

Here are some 'detective ideas' (humor me):

1. Chainsaw is a deforestation tool, so people think about trees when they think of a chainsaw, so (very subtly), people might think of deforestation, so why not pair the chainsaw (as a foil) with a child's water-gun (since water-guns represent peaceful imaginative play, and given that Earth's waters are eco-polluted, we might equally associate the water-gun with nature)?

2. Write to your Congressman and tell him, "This horror film dude Leatherface wields a chainsaw, but he ain't no Smokey the Bear, so we doubt he cares about the vitality of trees, so why not use the monster-avatar to talk about eco-depravity?"

3. Leatherface's chainsaw is very loud and disruptive (a true symbol of industrialization and technology), so wouldn't any image of the monster running across a shallow stream with that thing remind us of the tranquillity of nature?



::mad::


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Leatherfaceentertainmentweekly.jpg

[anglewitch]

so wouldn't any image of the monster running across a shallow stream with that thing remind us of the tranquillity of nature?



::mad::


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/Leatherfaceentertainmentweekly.jpg

18715

[Abishai100]

I think I posted this specific topic on this thread already, but I wanted to add another note which popped into my mind, since it's relevant to the general symbolic question, "Why does Leatherface seem like Boogeyman?"

"Can Leatherface be killed?"

In every movie about him (thus far), he does not get fatally wounded, though he certainly gets injured.

Imagine a 'gung-ho' vigilante type (maybe some new age left-wing idealist who refers to himself happily as 'The Shadow') builds a camp right outside Leatherface's house and then lures him into a forest where he has laid out a giant hidden ditch filled with metal spikes. As Leatherface runs towards 'The Shadow,' the vigilante blows a deafening whistle and shines a blinding torch-light into the psycho's face to discoordinate him, and when the psycho falls into the ditch thinking he will reach 'The Shadow,' the vigilante douses him with corrosive acid. This 'kit-tactic' approach could work, since the brutish maniac is somewhat burdened by that heavy chainsaw he wields like Excalibur.

Seems like a 'straightforward plan' (!), but the point of this random suggestion is to posit the notion that the reason we can liken Leatherface to the Boogeyman is that he is simultaneously pseudo-immortal and eerily goofy.

Is 'goofy' a common feature of screen ghouls?


Goosebumps city!


::shocked::

[anglewitch]

Still trying to figure out how a blood dripping chainsaw symbolizes the tranquility of nature.