What is it like to live in ...

[ManchestrMorgue]

What is it like to live in the United States?

I ask because I have become a bit fascinated with the USA. It just seems like such a diverse country to me. Naturally we see lots of programs from the USA, but I imagine this does not give much of an idea of what it is like to really live in the USA.

I can imagine that the answer would be very different depending on which part of the USA that you live in.

So, for those of you that reside in the USA, I would be really interested in hearing you views on what it is like to live there (please include which part of the USA that you live in). Things like: what do you do for recreation; what are people's attitudes like; what are society's priorities; how easy/hard is it to get along financially; what are your communities like; and anything else that defines the place you live.

Unfortunately, I have never had a chance to visit the USA, so my only exposure has been through media, which rarely gives a good view of what it is like for an average person.

Please feel free to use this topic to ask others what it is like to live in their part of the world, if you are so inclined. I thought it would be interesting to share a bit of what it is like to live in our own parts of the world, what we like about it, and what we would like to see change.

[TheWickerFan]

Interesting question.:)

I live in Long Island, New York; a red spot in an otherwise blue state. I think Long Island has quite a bad reputation as being filled with snobby, wealthy people, but it isn't so. It is ludicrously expensive to live here, but we're comfortable financially. I think when it's time to retire we'll probably move somewhere cheaper. I'm an old lady, so recreation would probably be a restaurant and movie theater.

As for the U.S. as a whole, I could go on for hours about the political divide. I'm a die hard liberal, and hate to see the hard right get all the publicity. I can't imagine how backwards we must look to other countries like the U.K. and Australia. My husband is English, and certain U.S. practices (like the lack of national health insurance) still baffle him.

I'll be very interested to hear what others have to say about their home state/country.

[fortunato]

Yeah, this is an incredibly frustrating time to live in this country. The politics here are schoolyard nonsense. Healthcare and education are largely fucked, both being run like/by corporations.
I live in Chicago, am a full-time student, and am taking out completely insane loans to finance it (both government and private). I work part-time at an auto parts store to pay the bills (although I'm currently living rent-free with a family member). Chicago is a great area, culturally, though. Lots of amazing art galleries, music venues, theaters, parks, restaurants, etc. I wouldn't say I'm comfortable, financially, but I can at least enjoy myself sometimes. The future makes me very, very nervous, with the loans and going into the film industry, but we'll see. To at least have the opportunity to go to school for something I enjoy, outrageous cost notwithstanding, is a privilege nonetheless. I'm not exactly sure what point I'm making, haha.

[wizard of gore]

loud arrogent fat people:D

[ZombieDrone]

Interesting question.:)

I live in Long Island, New York; a red spot in an otherwise blue state. I think Long Island has quite a bad reputation as being filled with snobby, wealthy people, but it isn't so. It is ludicrously expensive to live here, but we're comfortable financially. I think when it's time to retire we'll probably move somewhere cheaper. I'm an old lady, so recreation would probably be a restaurant and movie theater.

As for the U.S. as a whole, I could go on for hours about the political divide. I'm a die hard liberal, and hate to see the hard right get all the publicity. I can't imagine how backwards we must look to other countries like the U.K. and Australia. My husband is English, and certain U.S. practices (like the lack of national health insurance) still baffle him.

I'll be very interested to hear what others have to say about their home state/country.

If you don't mind my asking, how long has your husband been in the US?


I have to agree that America seems, as a European, a distinctly right-wing place. The Republicans are a centre-right pary Stateside, but the policies by European standards are rather firmly to the right and many issues like gun control or abortion are much bigger and more polarised issues in the US than over here.

Again, as a liberal and a democratic-socialist in the UK, I'm fairly mainstream in beliefs politically, but I think I'd probably get attacked by some people in the US and called a "leftist Commie scumbag" and I believe very strongly in Natoinalised Healthcare (the idea of having to pay for hospital treatment, literally on matters of life or death, just seems wrong to me) not to mention Nationalised Broadcasting (BBC)

Still, I like America for the most part just not the right-wing elements.

[TheWickerFan]

If you don't mind my asking, how long has your husband been in the US?


I have to agree that America seems, as a European, a distinctly right-wing place. The Republicans are a centre-right pary Stateside, but the policies by European standards are rather firmly to the right and many issues like gun control or abortion are much bigger and more polarised issues in the US than over here.

Again, as a liberal and a democratic-socialist in the UK, I'm fairly mainstream in beliefs politically, but I think I'd probably get attacked by some people in the US and called a "leftist Commie scumbag" and I believe very strongly in Natoinalised Healthcare (the idea of having to pay for hospital treatment, literally on matters of life or death, just seems wrong to me) not to mention Nationalised Broadcasting (BBC)

Still, I like America for the most part just not the right-wing elements.

He's been here about 25 years now (he'll be 50 this year), so he's pretty used to the American way of things.

[wizard of gore]

i heard long islands famous for serial killers

[Sistinas666]

I live in a very small town, Erie, Ks. I've moved to cities a few times but have lived 90% of my life in small towns. I believe this town has less than 3000 people. I hate these small towns, everyone knows your business. Its like living a soap opera. If all goes as planned I am moving to Oregon by March. I have 7 years until both of my children move out of the house for college and in the mean time I plan on trying to become a Canadian citizen. I hate the direction this country has taken and feel like Canada would be an excellent place to grow old.

[ManchestrMorgue]

Interesting question.:)

I live in Long Island, New York; a red spot in an otherwise blue state. I think Long Island has quite a bad reputation as being filled with snobby, wealthy people, but it isn't so. It is ludicrously expensive to live here, but we're comfortable financially. I think when it's time to retire we'll probably move somewhere cheaper. I'm an old lady, so recreation would probably be a restaurant and movie theater.

As for the U.S. as a whole, I could go on for hours about the political divide. I'm a die hard liberal, and hate to see the hard right get all the publicity. I can't imagine how backwards we must look to other countries like the U.K. and Australia. My husband is English, and certain U.S. practices (like the lack of national health insurance) still baffle him.


Thanks.

When you say "ludicrously expensive", what do you mean? What would an average house cost (not a huge mansion, just a regular house). What about goods and services - how much does it cost to live once you have accommodation sorted out? I ask because I think Sydney is ludicrously expensive ... :mad:

As far as political divide - we have essentially a two party system in Australia, with a Liberal and Labor party (with the Liberal party being traditionally more right wing, and Labor being more left wing), although I think both of these parties are reasonably moderate in most of their policies, and there is a right wing faction in the Labor party, as well as a left-wing faction.

With regards to national healthcare, my understanding is that the bulk of healthcare is privately funded through insurance, which is usually provided through workplace packages? Is that correct? Is there any emergency healthcare - say if you were unemployed and without insurance and suffering something life-threatening - like a serious car crash or a heart attack?

With regards to looking "backwards" to other countries - I wouldn't worry. Sometimes I feel the same way about Australia. But I think that people make a lot of assumptions about other countries with the only knowledge being what they see in the media.

That is part of the reason why I have started this thread. Obviously we hear a lot about the USA through the media. But I am sure that this is only what the media wants to portray, and isn't much of an indication of what it is like for the average person. So I was just really interested in what average people thought of their country. And I wanted to learn a little bit about what normal, mundane life was like in the USA. Not the lives of movie stars and CEOs.

[ManchestrMorgue]

Yeah, this is an incredibly frustrating time to live in this country. The politics here are schoolyard nonsense. Healthcare and education are largely fucked, both being run like/by corporations.
I live in Chicago, am a full-time student, and am taking out completely insane loans to finance it (both government and private). I work part-time at an auto parts store to pay the bills (although I'm currently living rent-free with a family member). Chicago is a great area, culturally, though. Lots of amazing art galleries, music venues, theaters, parks, restaurants, etc. I wouldn't say I'm comfortable, financially, but I can at least enjoy myself sometimes. The future makes me very, very nervous, with the loans and going into the film industry, but we'll see. To at least have the opportunity to go to school for something I enjoy, outrageous cost notwithstanding, is a privilege nonetheless. I'm not exactly sure what point I'm making, haha.

What are you studying at school? And what will it cost you to complete a degree? And how much do people pay for primary and high school?

We used to have free university in Australia. No longer. When I went to university (early 90's) I paid about $3000 a year for tuition (books etc were on top of that). It is probably triple that now (if not more - I haven't looked at the costs for a while).

What you said about living in Chicago - great things to do culturally - this is what I imagine one of the great things about living in the USA would be. Lots of things to do, if you are so inclined. I hear things on this board sometimes about movie screenings of classic films, about conventions and the like. We don't get those sort of things very often (hardly ever) in Australia. I imagine it would be great to live in a country big enough an wealthy enough to support these sort of niche interests.

[ManchestrMorgue]

I live in a very small town, Erie, Ks. I've moved to cities a few times but have lived 90% of my life in small towns. I believe this town has less than 3000 people. I hate these small towns, everyone knows your business. Its like living a soap opera. If all goes as planned I am moving to Oregon by March. I have 7 years until both of my children move out of the house for college and in the mean time I plan on trying to become a Canadian citizen. I hate the direction this country has taken and feel like Canada would be an excellent place to grow old.

What exactly do you hate about the direction that America has taken, and what is it about Canada that you prefer? I had a workmate from Canada, he moved back about 1 year ago. He had lived a fair while in Tennessee as well - said he quite liked it there.

I live in a reasonably small town (about 5000 people) but the suburb is part of a larger area. But only about 50km (30 miles) from the Sydney CBD. I know what you mean about everyone knowing everyone, but I guess it depends on the town and the people living there as to how much of a problem that is ;)

[Sistinas666]

Health care is one of my biggest pet peeves about the US. If you don't work and are on wellfare then its free. If you have a great job you can afford insurance. What about people like me that are in the between? I tell the lady my leg is broke and she asks for my insurance card. I don't have one. She asks if I have the 120 for the doctors visit and I say no. Bitch rolls her eyes and gives me some sort of assistance papers to fill out. I honestly say fuck this corporate, oil grubbing, money hungry, joke of a country. I am tired of old, fat, bald, rich men using/running America to get even richer. Its a travesty and I no longer want a part of this nonsense.

[ManchestrMorgue]

Health care is one of my biggest pet peeves about the US. If you don't work and are on wellfare then its free. If you have a great job you can afford insurance. What about people like me that are in the between? I tell the lady my leg is broke and she asks for my insurance card. I don't have one. She asks if I have the 120 for the doctors visit and I say no. Bitch rolls her eyes and gives me some sort of assistance papers to fill out. I honestly say fuck this corporate, oil grubbing, money hungry, joke of a country. I am tired of old, fat, bald, rich men using/running America to get even richer. Its a travesty and I no longer want a part of this nonsense.

Yeah I can imagine that would be frustrating.

I think that sort of thing is a problem in a lot of places (not necessarily with health care, but other things). You get concessions for things if you are on welfare (eg travel) but if you have a job that is not well-payed, your concession is gone. So you end up not all that much better off for the privilege of working. Doesn't seem right.

[TheWickerFan]

Thanks.

When you say "ludicrously expensive", what do you mean? What would an average house cost (not a huge mansion, just a regular house). What about goods and services - how much does it cost to live once you have accommodation sorted out? I ask because I think Sydney is ludicrously expensive ... :mad:

As far as political divide - we have essentially a two party system in Australia, with a Liberal and Labor party (with the Liberal party being traditionally more right wing, and Labor being more left wing), although I think both of these parties are reasonably moderate in most of their policies, and there is a right wing faction in the Labor party, as well as a left-wing faction.

With regards to national healthcare, my understanding is that the bulk of healthcare is privately funded through insurance, which is usually provided through workplace packages? Is that correct? Is there any emergency healthcare - say if you were unemployed and without insurance and suffering something life-threatening - like a serious car crash or a heart attack?

With regards to looking "backwards" to other countries - I wouldn't worry. Sometimes I feel the same way about Australia. But I think that people make a lot of assumptions about other countries with the only knowledge being what they see in the media.

That is part of the reason why I have started this thread. Obviously we hear a lot about the USA through the media. But I am sure that this is only what the media wants to portray, and isn't much of an indication of what it is like for the average person. So I was just really interested in what average people thought of their country. And I wanted to learn a little bit about what normal, mundane life was like in the USA. Not the lives of movie stars and CEOs.

The average cost of a 1,500 square foot house is about $300,000 (it's come down significantly since the economic meltdown) and you could expect to pay $2,000 in monthly rent for a 2 bedroom apartment.

The liberals, in this country, are the far left party. The Democrats (left) and Republicans (right) are the dominant parties, but lately the Conservatives (far right) have been heavily in the spotlight. The Tea Party is a splinter group of the conservatives that has gained a lot of power over the past few years, and are seriously affecting affairs in the White House. I'm sure some of the more colorful members (and there are a lot of them) are the ones that have been getting international coverage.

As for health insurance, it is true if you have a good job, there will probably be a benefits package, but if you're not, you're up the creek. If you have a life threatening emergency, hospitals don't turn you away, but you're still on the hook for the cost of your care (tens of thousands normally). I know someone who has an ovarian cyst, but can't get it treated until it bursts (in other words, until it becomes life threatening) without having to pay out of pocket. She's a bartender with a young daughter, and has no health insurance. Of course the whole business of what private insurance is unwilling to pay for is a whole other story.:rolleyes:

Sorry for the rant.:o

[ManchestrMorgue]

Yes we do get some coverage relating to the Tea Party in Australia.

Personally, I am all for people/parties standing for anything they choose. Opinions (even unpopular/unhealthy ones) are the hallmark of democracy. But it does get concerning when a significant number of people vote for them :D

The healthcare issue is pretty concerning - in Australia, we have private and public healthcare. Private healthcare is optional, and gives you a choice of doctors and reduced wait times for non-life threatening problems. However, if someone has a life threatening problem they get treatment as required for free. If you earn over a certain amount, you pay extra tax if you don't have private insurance in Australia.

We do get taxed a lot more in Australia, though. 45% income tax for the top bracket.

With regards to housing prices --- wow, Sydney is expensive. Average house prices are over $600K and a house in a nice suburb close to the city and beaches is easily $1m plus.

The average cost of a 1,500 square foot house is about $300,000 (it's come down significantly since the economic meltdown) and you could expect to pay $2,000 in monthly rent for a 2 bedroom apartment.

The liberals, in this country, are the far left party. The Democrats (left) and Republicans (right) are the dominant parties, but lately the Conservatives (far right) have been heavily in the spotlight. The Tea Party is a splinter group of the conservatives that has gained a lot of power over the past few years, and are seriously affecting affairs in the White House. I'm sure some of the more colorful members (and there are a lot of them) are the ones that have been getting international coverage.

As for health insurance, it is true if you have a good job, there will probably be a benefits package, but if you're not, you're up the creek. If you have a life threatening emergency, hospitals don't turn you away, but you're still on the hook for the cost of your care (tens of thousands normally). I know someone who has an ovarian cyst, but can't get it treated until it bursts (in other words, until it becomes life threatening) without having to pay out of pocket. She's a bartender with a young daughter, and has no health insurance. Of course the whole business of what private insurance is unwilling to pay for is a whole other story.:rolleyes:

Sorry for the rant.:o

[TheWickerFan]

Wow! Sorry I complained about Long Island's prices.:eek:

[ManchestrMorgue]

Wow! Sorry I complained about Long Island's prices.:eek:

I guess it also depends on what the average person earns though. I understand that wages can be pretty low for some people in the USA?

[TheWickerFan]

I guess it also depends on what the average person earns though. I understand that wages can be pretty low for some people in the USA?

Minimum wage is about $5 an hour (I can never remember the exact amount, but that's only for full time employees.

[hammerfan]

Minimum wage is about $5 an hour (I can never remember the exact amount, but that's only for full time employees.

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 - but the amount varies from state to state. I know waiters and waitresses get less than that because they get tips.

And as far as prices of houses, that also varies region to region. The same house you get in the East Coast for $300,00 you could get in the Midwest for around $95K-$100K.

[Sistinas666]

Another thing that pisses me off about the US- how the welfare system works. Heres an example: when I was in college(many moons ago) I was a bag boy at a small grocery store. Being that close to the cashier its a bit hard to not notice how people pay. A couple I was bagging for used a vision card, no big deal right? Then I took their bags out to their early 70's cherry Corvette. I mean this thing had obviosly been painstakingly restored. They could afford that car but not groceries? I call bullshit. My wife and I both work, have 2 children and receive no welfare but I see welfare families with nicer things than us. I understand the economy is shit but its not impossible to find a job. They get their medical paid, free money and food, rent for seriosly, like 30 bucks a month. They will even buy you a vehicle and maintain it(atleast these are things I know they will do in Kansas). If I didn't have pride I'd say fuck this work shit and live the high life.

Another thing that pisses me off are taxes. In protest I haven't filed taxes since 2000(yes, I know I'll be in prison soon).

Land of the free? Then why the fuck can't I smoke in a bar? Its ok for people to destroy their livers but the lungs must be saved? The same with buying cigarretes at 18 but alcohol at 21. I think the smoking age should be 21 too. And I love the fact a kid can fight in a war before he can even buy a beer.

Why the fuck do I have to wear a seat belt? Shouldn't it be my decision? Make seatbelts required for people up to 18 but adults? Bullshit. A few months ago I wasn't wearing my seatbelt so they pulled over my wife and ticketed me for $10. No big deal except they told my wife she had a suspended license(which was incorrect). She went to court with the proof she had a valid license the whole time, that they had made a mistake, yet they still refused to give her physical license back until she paid the 70 dollar court cost. What kind of horse shit is that? We paid for their mistake?:mad:


And thats my rant of the day.

[hammerfan]

I have to comment on your rant about welfare because it hits close to home. My parents were divorced when I was growing up (they remarried when I was 18), and my father never paid child support. My mother couldn't afford to take him to court (we lived in PA and he lived in MO), so my childhood memories are of her working two, and sometimes three, jobs just to put food on the table and keep a halfway decent roof over our heads.

Before she got a second job, she applied for welfare and food stamps. She was told she made too much money (she was a bank teller) to get welfare, but she was able to get food stamps. After a while, they took the food stamps away from her, too. This really burned her up because, as a bank teller, it was her job to cash people's welfare checks. And they would come in to the bank in their fur coats, dripping jewels, or driving up to the drive-through teller in their Cadillacs and whatnot. And here's my mother just trying to keep her head above water.

[Sistinas666]

I have to comment on your rant about welfare because it hits close to home. My parents were divorced when I was growing up (they remarried when I was 18), and my father never paid child support. My mother couldn't afford to take him to court (we lived in PA and he lived in MO), so my childhood memories are of her working two, and sometimes three, jobs just to put food on the table and keep a halfway decent roof over our heads.

Before she got a second job, she applied for welfare and food stamps. She was told she made too much money (she was a bank teller) to get welfare, but she was able to get food stamps. After a while, they took the food stamps away from her, too. This really burned her up because, as a bank teller, it was her job to cash people's welfare checks. And they would come in to the bank in their fur coats, dripping jewels, or driving up to the drive-through teller in their Cadillacs and whatnot. And here's my mother just trying to keep her head above water.


Exactly my point! Its almost like you are punished to work. Tonight I'm having meatloaf for supper but I know 1000's of welfare families out there tonight will be having steak.
Don't get me wrong, welfare does have its place but I think a single mother shouldn't have to work 3 jobs because 1 job disqualifies them from any kind of assistance. I'd like to see statistics on how much the welfare system is actually being abused.

[TheWickerFan]

After watching the news this morning, I wonder if the single person who is going to unite the country is Mitt Romney. Nobody seems to care for that filthy rich phony.

As we're on the subject of welfare cheats.

[Bob Gray]

What is it like to live in the United States?

I ask because I have become a bit fascinated with the USA. It just seems like such a diverse country to me. Naturally we see lots of programs from the USA, but I imagine this does not give much of an idea of what it is like to really live in the USA.

I can imagine that the answer would be very different depending on which part of the USA that you live in.

So, for those of you that reside in the USA, I would be really interested in hearing you views on what it is like to live there (please include which part of the USA that you live in). Things like: what do you do for recreation; what are people's attitudes like; what are society's priorities; how easy/hard is it to get along financially; what are your communities like; and anything else that defines the place you live.

Unfortunately, I have never had a chance to visit the USA, so my only exposure has been through media, which rarely gives a good view of what it is like for an average person.

Please feel free to use this topic to ask others what it is like to live in their part of the world, if you are so inclined. I thought it would be interesting to share a bit of what it is like to live in our own parts of the world, what we like about it, and what we would like to see change.



I live in the Midwest, Indianapolis to be exact. The U.S. has pros and cons about living here. I think we tend to underestimate the amount of freedom we do have, it definitely is not a perfect system though. Healthcare sucks, the wealthy rule the country (nothing new to any other country I'm sure), we are constantly being lied to by all political parties, our prisons are over crowded because we imprison people for nonsense, I could go on and on. Yet, we also have the opportunities to become wealthy and make a name for ourselves, we have the freedom to speak out against what we don't like, we have the resources to find out the truth about matters, and we have the ability to unite together and change things hopefully for the better. This country was built on rebellion and it could definitely get to that point again. I hope not, but then again, the world is over-populated, lol.

Here in the Midwest, we have a lot of backwards thinking and christian fundamentalism as well as racism (It is not as bad as it used to be but it is still prevalent). We are not as health conscious or environmentally conscious as we should be either, it has been improving dramatically in the last few years though. We still have a lot of farm country but much of what we had has been plowed away to make room for urban development

Our cost of living is still fairly low compared to other regions but so are our wages.

Here in Indiana we don't have any beaches or mountains but we have plenty of wilderness and rolling hills especially in the southern part of the state, the northern part is relatively flat and makes up the majority of our farming areas.

I'd say we have just as much recreation as anywhere else, save instead of going to the beach, we go camping instead

We are a pretty close-knit bunch as well, everyone knows everyone else in small communities and towns. That's not to say that we our unfriendly to outsiders, in fact, I'd say that we have adopted a bit of that southern hospitality mentality.

Well that's all I've got.

[ManchestrMorgue]

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 - but the amount varies from state to state. I know waiters and waitresses get less than that because they get tips.

And as far as prices of houses, that also varies region to region. The same house you get in the East Coast for $300,00 you could get in the Midwest for around $95K-$100K.

$7.25 - that is about $15K per year if you factor in a 40 hour week.

Do many people earn minimum wage (and not have tips etc to boost their income)?

What would the average wage be per year? And what would someone earn who is doing well (but not a movie star/CEO etc) earn?

[hammerfan]

$7.25 - that is about $15K per year if you factor in a 40 hour week.

Do many people earn minimum wage (and not have tips etc to boost their income)?

What would the average wage be per year? And what would someone earn who is doing well (but not a movie star/CEO etc) earn?

Honestly, wages vary by region. People in the midwest don't make as much as people on the east coast or west coast, but the cost of living is less there. As far as what would someone earn that's well off? I have no idea - it's not me, I can tell you that. I'm not poor, but I live paycheck to paycheck, and constantly have to count my pennies.

[ManchestrMorgue]

Another thing that pisses me off about the US- how the welfare system works. Heres an example: when I was in college(many moons ago) I was a bag boy at a small grocery store. Being that close to the cashier its a bit hard to not notice how people pay. A couple I was bagging for used a vision card, no big deal right? Then I took their bags out to their early 70's cherry Corvette. I mean this thing had obviosly been painstakingly restored. They could afford that car but not groceries? I call bullshit. My wife and I both work, have 2 children and receive no welfare but I see welfare families with nicer things than us. I understand the economy is shit but its not impossible to find a job. They get their medical paid, free money and food, rent for seriosly, like 30 bucks a month. They will even buy you a vehicle and maintain it(atleast these are things I know they will do in Kansas). If I didn't have pride I'd say fuck this work shit and live the high life.

I thought that welfare was poor in the USA? Unless I am missing something it sounds like you have a more lucrative welfare system than we do. In Australia, people get welfare payments and subsidised housing. Either cheap public housing or rental assistance. They get money from the government but have to buy food/pay bills etc from that. Healthcare is obviously free. But they must show that they are looking for work (by attending interviews etc). That is for unemployment. Single parents can get a pension whilst their children are young. There is also an old age pension, and pensions for people with disabilities.


Another thing that pisses me off are taxes. In protest I haven't filed taxes since 2000(yes, I know I'll be in prison soon).


Be happy that you aren't paying 45% tax and also GST on purchases.

Land of the free? Then why the fuck can't I smoke in a bar? Its ok for people to destroy their livers but the lungs must be saved? The same with buying cigarretes at 18 but alcohol at 21. I think the smoking age should be 21 too. And I love the fact a kid can fight in a war before he can even buy a beer.


Similar thing here. Smoking is banned in pretty much all indoor venues, and some places are trying to ban smoking in outdoor places as well.

The thing is, the government will never ban outright the sale of tobacco products - too many taxes for them to lose out on. I think a packet of cigarettes here costs something like $10-$15 (it has been a really long time since I smoked). Most of that is taxes.

We also get highly taxed on alcohol as well...


Why the fuck do I have to wear a seat belt? Shouldn't it be my decision? Make seatbelts required for people up to 18 but adults? Bullshit. A few months ago I wasn't wearing my seatbelt so they pulled over my wife and ticketed me for $10. No big deal except they told my wife she had a suspended license(which was incorrect). She went to court with the proof she had a valid license the whole time, that they had made a mistake, yet they still refused to give her physical license back until she paid the 70 dollar court cost. What kind of horse shit is that? We paid for their mistake?:mad:


Come and live here. Always had to wear seatbelts.

Movies can't be sold here unless they have been rated by our classification board (and things get banned if they don't meet "public standards of decency"). We don't have an 18+ rating for video games, because those are just for kids, so the highest rating is 15+ and anything that is unsuitable is banned.

The police are revenue raisers that are right there when people travel 5km over the speed limit, but if someone robs your house, there is a reporting hotline to ring, and the police hardly ever attend. Minimal chance of real criminals getting caught, but do a burnout in your car and it will be impounded and possibly destroyed.

We have earned the label "The Nanny State"

[ManchestrMorgue]

Honestly, wages vary by region. People in the midwest don't make as much as people on the east coast or west coast, but the cost of living is less there. As far as what would someone earn that's well off? I have no idea - it's not me, I can tell you that. I'm not poor, but I live paycheck to paycheck, and constantly have to count my pennies.

Can an average person afford to buy a house of their own? I mean with a mortgage, not outright of course?

Because in Sydney (and to a lesser extent some other parts of Australia) this is becoming less common, with lots of people renting their whole lives - including people with reasonable jobs.

Put it this way - a cheap apartment in the Sydney area (not a nice part of Sydney or very close to the CBD) may cost in the vicinity of $300-$350K. To get a loan you would need 10% deposit and stamp duty. so about $40K. Conveyancing and other costs will add a few thousand. So you need $40-45K in savings just to enter the market.

There is a first home buyers grant that the government gives out to first home buyers of $7k but that is still a fair way off what you need.

It would be hard to save that whilst paying rent and expenses.

[fortunato]

What are you studying at school? And what will it cost you to complete a degree? And how much do people pay for primary and high school?

We used to have free university in Australia. No longer. When I went to university (early 90's) I paid about $3000 a year for tuition (books etc were on top of that). It is probably triple that now (if not more - I haven't looked at the costs for a while).

What you said about living in Chicago - great things to do culturally - this is what I imagine one of the great things about living in the USA would be. Lots of things to do, if you are so inclined. I hear things on this board sometimes about movie screenings of classic films, about conventions and the like. We don't get those sort of things very often (hardly ever) in Australia. I imagine it would be great to live in a country big enough an wealthy enough to support these sort of niche interests.

Well, I'm studying cinematography. I don't really want to say how much I'm going to owe by the time I'm done, but I will say a four-year degree at my school, on average, costs around $80,000.
As far as primary and high school, there's no base attendance cost. However, there are various fees and costs for supplies and the like.

Now, about Chicago, it's definitely true that it is a city in which you can find plenty of great events to attend: independent, classic, and cult film screenings; great shows, music and theatrical; amazing food and the like. That's certainly not everywhere, though. There are plenty of places, even some bigger cities around the US, that are mainly devoid of those cultural events.

[fortunato]

I live in the Midwest, Indianapolis to be exact. The U.S. has pros and cons about living here. I think we tend to underestimate the amount of freedom we do have, it definitely is not a perfect system though. Healthcare sucks, the wealthy rule the country (nothing new to any other country I'm sure), we are constantly being lied to by all political parties, our prisons are over crowded because we imprison people for nonsense, I could go on and on. Yet, we also have the opportunities to become wealthy and make a name for ourselves, we have the freedom to speak out against what we don't like, we have the resources to find out the truth about matters, and we have the ability to unite together and change things hopefully for the better. This country was built on rebellion and it could definitely get to that point again. I hope not, but then again, the world is over-populated, lol.

Here in the Midwest, we have a lot of backwards thinking and christian fundamentalism as well as racism (It is not as bad as it used to be but it is still prevalent). We are not as health conscious or environmentally conscious as we should be either, it has been improving dramatically in the last few years though. We still have a lot of farm country but much of what we had has been plowed away to make room for urban development

Our cost of living is still fairly low compared to other regions but so are our wages.

Here in Indiana we don't have any beaches or mountains but we have plenty of wilderness and rolling hills especially in the southern part of the state, the northern part is relatively flat and makes up the majority of our farming areas.

I'd say we have just as much recreation as anywhere else, save instead of going to the beach, we go camping instead

We are a pretty close-knit bunch as well, everyone knows everyone else in small communities and towns. That's not to say that we our unfriendly to outsiders, in fact, I'd say that we have adopted a bit of that southern hospitality mentality.

Well that's all I've got.

I spent the second half of my childhood in Indy. What area are you from?

[ManchestrMorgue]

Here in Indiana we don't have any beaches or mountains but we have plenty of wilderness and rolling hills especially in the southern part of the state, the northern part is relatively flat and makes up the majority of our farming areas.

I'd say we have just as much recreation as anywhere else, save instead of going to the beach, we go camping instead

We are a pretty close-knit bunch as well, everyone knows everyone else in small communities and towns. That's not to say that we our unfriendly to outsiders, in fact, I'd say that we have adopted a bit of that southern hospitality mentality.


Thanks for that. One of the things that I imagined, and seems to be confirmed by this thread, is that there is a significant difference between different parts of the USA.

This is quite different to Australia. I think here, people tend to be reasonably similar no matter which city/state you are in. Country folk may be a little more friendly etc but generally people are very similar.

Also, the vast majority of our population live within an hour or two of the ocean. So while there are differences in recereation between geographic regions, I think these are largely due to climate. And even some of the more southerly parts of our country (eg Melbourne, Adelaide) can get temperatures into the 30's in the summertime (celcius, that is). Probably the difference is how cold they get in the winter!

So the beach can be a pretty big part of most Australian's summer, should they choose it.

It reminds me that there was a recent article in one of our papers saying that New Yorkers (at least in NYC) were a pretty unfriendly and hurried lot. But I am hearing that people can be quite the opposite in other parts of the country. I don't know if that article was a fair representation of NYC - these things are often ill-informed.

[ManchestrMorgue]

Our cost of living is still fairly low compared to other regions but so are our wages.

This is one of the things that interests me.

In Australia (especially Sydney) it is seen that we have a really high cost of living. And certainly comparisons have shown that it is one of the more expensive cities to live in.

However as to how much more expensive than other places - it is difficult to directly compare because you need to adjust for wages, taxes, prices, etc.

For example, our basic wage for 20 year olds and over is about $15.51. At 18 it is $10.50 or thereabouts. It is less for apprentices.

But basic wage alone isn't enough to compare. I mean, it is meaningless if no one is getting the basic wage in one country, and in another almost everyone is on basic wage.

Here, I think the average income is around $70K per year, but the median income is below $60K per year. So half the population earns less than $60K per year. This is just for adult full time workers - it doesn't include the unemployed etc.

[ChronoGrl]

A lot of how I feel about the US politically has already been said by Wicker and Fortunato... I consider myself very liberal (with the occasional financially conservative leanings, though my bleeding heart typically wins out on those inner battles), and I feel a bit lost and non-represented in this representative democracy. I'm fortunate enough to live in Massachusetts, which is a very liberal state and will always vote Democratic in the national conventions, but at the same time I find that being tied to this bi-partisan system of government ultimately disenfranchises the individual.

Take the election of 2000, as an example. I was 18, so this was the first election that I could vote in, so naturally I was really excited. I was a freshman in college and definitely breathing in the political vigor of my campus. I was also extremely passionate about gay rights, which seemed to be an up-and-coming hot button topic (which, honestly, boggled my mind because I just didn't understand how the Right could take their religion to argue that a person couldn't marry the person that they loved)... And I remember sitting there and watching the debate between George W. and Gore... And to my utter shock and disappointment - Gore outwardly said that he opposed gay marriage.

I was pissed. This was THE Democrat that I wanted to vote for... Yet he was opposed to basic human liberties? My heart essentially sunk as I realized that He did not represent ME... But as a slave to this bi-partisan system, I HAD to vote for him, lest the Greater of two Evils win (of course there was Nader, but there's simply no room for another party - let's be honest... and he diluted the Democratic vote).

It's how I continue to feel - I think that the Republicans are greedy money-grubbing Big Business twats who twist and turn and slant and spin words and news and have absolutely no connection to the 99%... They're absolute brilliant Sultans of Spin - I actually marvel at how much they control and poison the so-called "liberal" media...

...

But at the same time, I think that the Democrats (Obama included) are gutless. I understand that they are trying to strike a compromise, but it's like trying to shake hands with a brick wall filled witch cobras... To be honest, I feel as though we need to use some of the aggressive predatory tactics that the Republicans use just to fight back...

WHY IS GAY MARRIAGE EVEN AN ISSUE ANYMORE?! PEOPLE ARE FUCKING STARVING AND JOBLESS IN THIS COUNTRY BUT YET NOT ALLOWING A MAN TO MARRY ANOTHER MAN IS SOMEHOW AN IMPORTANT CAUSE TO TAKE UP?! REALLY?! THAT'S A FUCKING PRODUCTIVE WAY TO USE YOU AND YOUR CONSTITUENTS' TIME?!

...

*ahem*

...

In short:

I'm tired at how conservative this nation is. It doesn't represent me or my beliefs. And even the liberal voices don't represent me. I'm not represented at all. No joke, I don't even see the point of voting since my state will always go Democratic anyway... And those Democrats simply do not represent me.

[ChronoGrl]

Now that my long-winded political rant is waiting to be approved by a moderator, I'll take on this piece (in a hopefully less-ranty-more-honest-y tone):


So, for those of you that reside in the USA, I would be really interested in hearing you views on what it is like to live there (please include which part of the USA that you live in). Things like: what do you do for recreation; what are people's attitudes like; what are society's priorities; how easy/hard is it to get along financially; what are your communities like; and anything else that defines the place you live.


I live in Central Massachusetts. I typically say "I live near Boston" for simplicity's sake, but I'm actually about an hour, hour and a half outside of Boston. The town I grew up in (40 minutes West of where I live now) was by no means small with its 40,000 people. I now live (and have lived for the past 5 years) in Maynard, MA, a town of about 10,000 people. Both of these towns were both mill towns in the past, so they are definitely at the lower end of the economic spectrum, though I wouldn't necessarily call them "poor." I'd say that there's a fair amount of crime in Maynard, particularly around where I live (I see police cars circling or casing a nearby apartment about once a week or so). There's a lot of diversity here, mostly African American and Hispanic. The high school where I grew up in was incredibly diverse - African American, large Hispanic population, large Asian population - A lot of my friends were definitely racist, which was odd to the naive me, who was brought up by incredibly liberal and "colorblind" parents (when I had a crush on a black kid in high school, I was shocked when my best friend at the time told me, "My father always says that there's a difference between Black People and Niggers.") - I think it's fair to say that there were gangs and racial tensions, though I was really removed from it. I was lucky that my parents could afford to take me and my friends on vacation (every year we went to New York City to see a Broadway show, and we would do daytrips into Boston for plays, concerts, and museums), but it wasn't something that all of my friends could afford. For recreation we mostly went to the movies, the mall, Friendly's (LOL).

I was lucky enough in that my parents could pay for me to go to college at Colby, a small and expensive Liberal Arts school in Maine - Most of the kids in my graduating class went to Umass, the State University, or Fitchburg State College and still had to take out loans. At Colby I had a HUGE culture shock; it was definitely a rich WASP school, far removed from the racial and economic diversity that I experienced in high school. A lot more preppies with popped collars and really expensive cars... It was mostly a sheltered and conservative school, though oddly enough the minoritive groups had the loudest voices (and were incredibly angry - The Gay Kids were angry and accused Colby of being Homophobic... The Black and Hispanic Kids were angry and accused Colby of being Racist) - It was bizarre because for the first time in my life it made me feel self conscious as a white female - Was I racist just for being white?? O, my bleeding heart!!

Anyhoo - It was a strange experience and not always a good one - When I think to how universities are portrayed in movies, Colby aligns in that we had the Rich White Preppy Kids, but there was no Greek Life (no fraternities)... Sports were the frats, if you will... It was definitely a Sports school... Despite its high ranking, I was always disappointed in the intellect of my classmates...

As for RIGHT NOW in Maynard, Mass, it's a great little place with fantastic restaurants (Thai, Indian, Korean, Bistro) and there are places where you can go hiking just a short drive away (not that I hike enough!)... Boston is close enough so that I can go in to see plays or go out to a nice dinner, but we only do that on special occasions... I'd say that Boston is really a cultural mecca, similar to how Fortunato described Chicago - A great music scene, definitely a lot of fantastic art (the Museum of Fine Art is one of my favorite museums), indie movie places, and incredible restaurants... Boston's a great cultural hub and I would say it's a younger, hipster city, due to the amount of colleges in its midst (Harvard, Boston University, Boston College, MIT, etc.)... I remember thinking of it as a "big college town" in comparison to places like New York, which is another cultural hub, but seemed more corporate-leaning or artsy-leaning, depending where you were.

In terms of leisure, the boyfriend and I spend WAAAAY TOO MUCH TIME on our asses watching TV... If we go out, it'll be to dinner, to the movies, or on vacation when we can - We will either drive to a place where we can go camping in the middle of nowhere, or something more extravagant. My preference for camping is in New Hampshire of Maine, which can be a 2 - 6-hour drive, depending on where you're headed.

In terms of cost of homes, as it's been mentioned, Massachusetts is a pretty expensive place to live (not as expensive as Long Island, though)... We're currently looking for 3+ bedroom houses under the $250,000 range... The few that we've found range in 1500 - 3000 square feet... Property taxes in the area are about $5,000/year for the homes that we're looking at... This is the first time that I've researched homes and, so, having no frame of reference, this is all expensive to me... Maynard is the "cheaper" town around me; the towns surrounding Maynard are incredibly wealthy.

We are very comfortable financially; both of us have well-paying jobs in the high tech industry. I think that I could budget a LOT better than I do (buying a house makes me nervous because I know realistically I'll have to cut out my frivolous spending), but I think that it's definitely doable for us... We're just not going to get involved in a house loan that we can't afford... What's truly abominable is that banks will give you a MASSIVE loan knowing that you can't afford it... It's utterly unethical and definitely something that we need to keep in mind as we start looking at getting pre-approved.

That might have been TMI, but, well, there it is. ;)

[ManchestrMorgue]

That might have been TMI, but, well, there it is. ;)

Definitely not TMI, and exactly the sort of things that I was interested in hearing about :D. What it is like for a "normal" person to live in the USA (different parts of the USA).

You see, we see a lot of the USA on movies and television. But movies and television don't show you what a country is really like. They either show stereotypes, or "exciting" things.

It is interesting what you said about your University life. Very different to University in Australia. I went to one of the larger Universities in Australia, and I think it was far more education focussed than you describe. I wasn't into team sports at University, and honestly I could have gone through my whole 6 year degree without even realising that my University played any sports.

Sure, there were clubs/teams that you could join, but their activities all pretty much occurred away from the eyes and consciousness of those not involved or interested.

Mostly, people tended to involve themselves with their faculties and their friends. There were "groups" but it wasn't like there was a rich kids group, an Asian kids group etc. There were bands that played on campus, a few bars, stuff like that. There isn't any real "fraternity life" in Australian universities. There is on-campus accommodations, but they are just big buildings with lots of individual rooms (probably like dormitories at US universities?)

I know what you mean about saving for a house and spending frivilously. I was lucky that I bought a house as soon as I could, and just paying off the mortgage month to month meant that I could build up equity to buy a nicer house later. I know that there would have been no way that I could have had the discipline to save for the deposit for a nice house right away. Way too impulsive for that :) Good luck with it - it is nice to have something that is your own.

With regards to your previous post - it is similar here. There seems to be less and less difference between the two major parties. Here, though, we don't have a choice about whether we vote or not - everyone over 18 is forced to vote. If you don't, you get fined.

[Sistinas666]

A lot of how I feel about the US politically has already been said by Wicker and Fortunato... I consider myself very liberal (with the occasional financially conservative leanings, though my bleeding heart typically wins out on those inner battles), and I feel a bit lost and non-represented in this representative democracy. I'm fortunate enough to live in Massachusetts, which is a very liberal state and will always vote Democratic in the national conventions, but at the same time I find that being tied to this bi-partisan system of government ultimately disenfranchises the individual.

Take the election of 2000, as an example. I was 18, so this was the first election that I could vote in, so naturally I was really excited. I was a freshman in college and definitely breathing in the political vigor of my campus. I was also extremely passionate about gay rights, which seemed to be an up-and-coming hot button topic (which, honestly, boggled my mind because I just didn't understand how the Right could take their religion to argue that a person couldn't marry the person that they loved)... And I remember sitting there and watching the debate between George W. and Gore... And to my utter shock and disappointment - Gore outwardly said that he opposed gay marriage.

I was pissed. This was THE Democrat that I wanted to vote for... Yet he was opposed to basic human liberties? My heart essentially sunk as I realized that He did not represent ME... But as a slave to this bi-partisan system, I HAD to vote for him, lest the Greater of two Evils win (of course there was Nader, but there's simply no room for another party - let's be honest... and he diluted the Democratic vote).

It's how I continue to feel - I think that the Republicans are greedy money-grubbing Big Business twats who twist and turn and slant and spin words and news and have absolutely no connection to the 99%... They're absolute brilliant Sultans of Spin - I actually marvel at how much they control and poison the so-called "liberal" media...

...

But at the same time, I think that the Democrats (Obama included) are gutless. I understand that they are trying to strike a compromise, but it's like trying to shake hands with a brick wall filled witch cobras... To be honest, I feel as though we need to use some of the aggressive predatory tactics that the Republicans use just to fight back...

WHY IS GAY MARRIAGE EVEN AN ISSUE ANYMORE?! PEOPLE ARE FUCKING STARVING AND JOBLESS IN THIS COUNTRY BUT YET NOT ALLOWING A MAN TO MARRY ANOTHER MAN IS SOMEHOW AN IMPORTANT CAUSE TO TAKE UP?! REALLY?! THAT'S A FUCKING PRODUCTIVE WAY TO USE YOU AND YOUR CONSTITUENTS' TIME?!

...

*ahem*

...

In short:

I'm tired at how conservative this nation is. It doesn't represent me or my beliefs. And even the liberal voices don't represent me. I'm not represented at all. No joke, I don't even see the point of voting since my state will always go Democratic anyway... And those Democrats simply do not represent me.



Higher Learning is now on instaque.

[ZombieDrone]

I was born and raised in Rotherham, a town in South Yorkshire (although it's a town, it's about the size of a small-to-average city). It used to be a thriving industrial centre for British industry, especially in coal mining (although there was a lot of steel production as well).

In the 1980's, during the Thatcher administration, most of the mines closed down causing mass unemployment and the area still hasn't fully recovered (it's not wise to mention Thatcher to a stranger in Rotherham and certainly not wise to praise her...not that I would.) it's one of the poorest areas of the country and there's still high unemployment and a fairly high crime rate.

Politically, the town is very much supportive of the Labour Party, a centre-left party, that traditionally was tied to democratic-socialism although under Tony Blair the party stepped more towards the right, it seems now it's going back to it's pre-Blair ideologies. There's also a strong voter base for the BNP (a highly controversial far-right political party that's been gaining influence, although they seem to be slowly receding in support).

There are prejudices within Rotherham. Growing up it wasn't rare to hear homophobic or racist comments, especially towards the large Asian community and it's still a big problem.

I didn't grow up in the worst areas. My upbringing was lower middle-class (that is, in the British rather than American sense where middle-class tends to be well-paid professionals such as small businessmen, lawyers, private doctors etc.) so although I wouldn't say I was wealthy growing up, I never went hungry.

Up till about six months ago, I lived in Sheffield (the neighbouring big city) as a student and I do prefer it there in some ways. It was also affected badly by the closing of heavy-industry, but it's managed to reinvent itself as a city of arts and culture. It also feel much safer there as it's one of the safest cities in the country and the city's more liberalised and cosmopolitan.

[Sistinas666]

I was born and raised in Rotherham, a town in South Yorkshire (although it's a town, it's about the size of a small-to-average city). It used to be a thriving industrial centre for British industry, especially in coal mining (although there was a lot of steel production as well).

In the 1980's, during the Thatcher administration, most of the mines closed down causing mass unemployment and the area still hasn't fully recovered (it's not wise to mention Thatcher to a stranger in Rotherham and certainly not wise to praise her...not that I would.) it's one of the poorest areas of the country and there's still high unemployment and a fairly high crime rate.

Politically, the town is very much supportive of the Labour Party, a centre-left party, that traditionally was tied to democratic-socialism although under Tony Blair the party stepped more towards the right, it seems now it's going back to it's pre-Blair ideologies. There's also a strong voter base for the BNP (a highly controversial far-right political party that's been gaining influence, although they seem to be slowly receding in support).

There are prejudices within Rotherham. Growing up it wasn't rare to hear homophobic or racist comments, especially towards the large Asian community and it's still a big problem.

I didn't grow up in the worst areas. My upbringing was lower middle-class (that is, in the British rather than American sense where middle-class tends to be well-paid professionals such as small businessmen, lawyers, private doctors etc.) so although I wouldn't say I was wealthy growing up, I never went hungry.

Up till about six months ago, I lived in Sheffield (the neighbouring big city) as a student and I do prefer it there in some ways. It was also affected badly by the closing of heavy-industry, but it's managed to reinvent itself as a city of arts and culture. It also feel much safer there as it's one of the safest cities in the country and the city's more liberalised and cosmopolitan.



If you changed a few words to Detroit and auto industry it would sound like you lived in Michigan.

[Tangleduponblue]

I'm from Indianapolis, IN, much like Bob. A big difference between the midwest and International cities is the need for a car to get around. Indianapolis is so spread out (and our public transportation so poor) that one needs a car in order to function. Having been all over the midwest and lived in Ohio for a time I feel comfortable saying that as a blanket statement for the Midwest.

Also, we're a very divided country- culturally, politically, geographically, etc. Whether it's the East Coast, Midwest, South, Southwest, or West Coast you'll come to find different values in each. We're a nation founded, explored, and colonized by a bunch of guys who fancied themselves rugged individualists and that individuality so it makes sense we'd have distinct individual regions.

[ManchestrMorgue]

Also, we're a very divided country- culturally, politically, geographically, etc. Whether it's the East Coast, Midwest, South, Southwest, or West Coast you'll come to find different values in each. We're a nation founded, explored, and colonized by a bunch of guys who fancied themselves rugged individualists and that individuality so it makes sense we'd have distinct individual regions.

Yeah, that is what I imagined, and one of the things that I find really interesting.

In Australia, even though it is a large country geographically, people are pretty similar everywhere. Much more so that it would seem in the US.

[ChronoGrl]

Higher Learning is now on instaque.

I've never seen it... Any good?

It is interesting what you said about your University life. Very different to University in Australia. I went to one of the larger Universities in Australia, and I think it was far more education focussed than you describe. I wasn't into team sports at University, and honestly I could have gone through my whole 6 year degree without even realising that my University played any sports.

Sure, there were clubs/teams that you could join, but their activities all pretty much occurred away from the eyes and consciousness of those not involved or interested.

Mostly, people tended to involve themselves with their faculties and their friends. There were "groups" but it wasn't like there was a rich kids group, an Asian kids group etc. There were bands that played on campus, a few bars, stuff like that. There isn't any real "fraternity life" in Australian universities. There is on-campus accommodations, but they are just big buildings with lots of individual rooms (probably like dormitories at US universities?)


I might have been overly-cynical... To be honest, the college I went to is in the top 20 ranked schools in the United States... I think that I was just bitter because I didn't really connect with a lot of my rich, white, jock classmates (which is a TOTAL generalization, I know... I think I was very angry in my youth)... That being said, I joined the Debate Club and made a lot of friends whom I connected with... I just think the atmosphere was more conservative than I was expecting. I mean, we are a Tier 3 school, meaning that our sports teams are not at the top of the collegiate sports divisions... Could be that there was just a lot of dumb people who could afford it (again with my cynicism!!)


I know what you mean about saving for a house and spending frivilously. I was lucky that I bought a house as soon as I could, and just paying off the mortgage month to month meant that I could build up equity to buy a nicer house later. I know that there would have been no way that I could have had the discipline to save for the deposit for a nice house right away. Way too impulsive for that :) Good luck with it - it is nice to have something that is your own.

With regards to your previous post - it is similar here. There seems to be less and less difference between the two major parties. Here, though, we don't have a choice about whether we vote or not - everyone over 18 is forced to vote. If you don't, you get fined.

Thanks for the luck on the house!!! We need to get pre-approved, which for some reason is really paralyzing me... I'm so scared I'll pick the wrong loan institution.

Question for you - How do you think forced voting impacts how voters approach voting? I've always been curious...