Things I Learned Watching Classic TV And Films...

[SteyrAUG]

1. Quicksand is EVERYWHERE - You have no hope of escape on your own but any crappy twig is sufficiently strong enough to pull you free.

2. Tarantulas are deadly to humans - If a tarantula is introduced to a room the first thing it will do is search for a human sleeping on a bed and climb on their chest.

3. Robots are a serious danger - Despite the average speed of 5 mph and lack of sophisticated weaponry, robots are a deadly threat. That is unless you throw water on them (which usually destroys them) or just walk away from them at speeds in excess of 5 mph.

4. Doctors are horribly incompetent - They always fail to notice the "strange markings" on accident victims and don't find things like complete loss of blood or missing brains particularly unusual. They usually conclude that such things suggest a heart attack or death from shock.

5. The guy in the castle did it - If there is an old castle on a hill in your area, especially if it has a laboratory, that is where all of your vampires, mutated monsters or evil robots are coming from.

6. Eternal youth and Immortality are scams - I don't care what ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead you found or which Voodoo priest is making these claims, if you try them you will be dead by the end of the film no matter how well it seems to be working at first.

7. Don't trust the guy in the Fez - He is either a terrorist, enemy agent or he is controlling resurrected mummies. He probably knows the guy working in the laboratory at that creepy ass castle on the hill.

8. Handguns make great thrown objects - If you just fired all of your rounds into a given monster or robot to no effect it is worth a try to throw the empty handgun at the monster or robot. After all if 6 rounds of .38 or 7 rounds of .45 didn't work, being hit by a pound of metal might just do the trick.

9. People kept a lot of rope back then - Seems no matter where you are if you just look around for a minute you will find a long, sturdy rope which will be the sufficient length required to escape from your given predicament.

10. Everyone knows Judo - Male. female, young or old it doesn't matter. Better keep an eye out for that chop to the back of the neck and that back rolling throw.

[newb]

nice.......but #8 never ever was effective. They usually missed or it just bounced off the intended target.

[SteyrAUG]

nice.......but #8 never ever was effective. They usually missed or it just bounced off the intended target.


The sarcasm was implied. Of course it never worked.

;)

[Ferox13]

I miss Quicksand.

As a child I always felt it was a constant threat. Kids today don't know the dangers of it and the shocking image of the last piece of a person body dissapearing into it.

Monkeys wearing fezs can also be just as evil as the (usually fat) bad guy wearing one. Actually I'd extend to any simian wearing head gear. Its a dead giveaway like some one wearing raybans and a uniform in a 3rd world country.

Always been a fan of Judo in old flicks - as well as the famous 'Judo Chop' theres actually some real Judo in some of these flicks. Blood on the Sun starring James Cagney (who was a Judoka Black Belt) has some great moves in it. Sands of Imo Jimo has the Duke practicing the gentle art and the original Cape Fear shows Max Cady taking out a guy with a rear naked choke (while topless).But my fave intro to Judo came with 70's TV for me with Captain Kirk and his flawless Tomenage (monkey flip to us ignorant Gaijin).

As for rope - some people still keep a coil handy. I for one have a good length in my car boot along with a roll of plastic sheeting, duct tape and a sack of quicklime. Be prepared is my motto.

[SteyrAUG]

Always been a fan of Judo in old flicks - as well as the famous 'Judo Chop' theres actually some real Judo in some of these flicks. Blood on the Sun starring James Cagney (who was a Judoka Black Belt) has some great moves in it. Sands of Imo Jimo has the Duke practicing the gentle art and the original Cape Fear shows Max Cady taking out a guy with a rear naked choke (while topless).But my fave intro to Judo came with 70's TV for me with Captain Kirk and his flawless Tomenage (monkey flip to us ignorant Gaijin).



Glad to know I'm not the only bugeisha on the forum. Did you know President Teddy Roosevelt was also a Judoka and brought a teacher from Japan to train him at the white house? Always loved Blood on the Sun for the martial arts and as a WWII related film. Another good one is Kurosawas Sanshiro Sugata aka The Judo Story (1943).

If you haven't read it, you might enjoy The Fighting Spirit by E.J. Harrison which was written in 1912 by one of the first westerners to become truly proficient in Japanese martial arts, especially Judo and various Jujutsu ryu.

[Ferox13]

DIdn't know about Roosevelt - I do know Abe Lincoln was a wrestler though (Greco-Roman I think). James Caan was meant to a high grade in Karate but after seeing Killer Elite, I'm not sure..

Guy Ritchie is another famous Judoka.

Do you train or are you just a fan?

[SteyrAUG]

DIdn't know about Roosevelt - I do know Abe Lincoln was a wrestler though (Greco-Roman I think). James Caan was meant to a high grade in Karate but after seeing Killer Elite, I'm not sure..

Guy Ritchie is another famous Judoka.

Do you train or are you just a fan?

Caan actually trained with Tak Kubota who was also featured in the Killer Elite. While not terribly visually impressive, most actual martial arts are not. Having seen a few demonstrations on things like the Tonight Show he is a serious martial artist but still a long ways from being Donn Draeger. With celebrities you always need to take Yudansha grades with a grain of salt, kind of like Elvis and his 8th Dan grade under Ed Parker.

I have been involved with martial arts for about 35 years now. Primarily Okinawan Te and Kobu systems, classical Japanese Budo and Bujutsu systems and Chinese boxing styles. I have studied approx. 40 systems in that time, I am a teacher of about 8 of those systems.

I'm also a huge movie junkie so I am also a fan of Chanbara / Jidaigeki films, Shaw Brothers classics and of course the late, great Bruce Lee who is responsible for my initial interest in the martial arts.

[Ferox13]

You have a few years on me training (and I haven't for a few years).

I started doing TKD - which I continued for about 12 years. During which I did about 4 years of Traditional Ju Jitsu and Boxing. I then went on to do about 4 years of MMA (BJJ plus Thai boxing)..

[Ferox13]

Steyr,

How do youy feel about Mixed Martial Arts as some one who has a huge knowledge of Traditional martial arts?

[SteyrAUG]

Steyr,

How do youy feel about Mixed Martial Arts as some one who has a huge knowledge of Traditional martial arts?


As with most things it has good an bad.

It is good because most practitioners train for a more realistic contact based environment. They tend to be in good shape and have a practical knowledge base.

The bad is it is still a sport with the confines of rules and regulations which don't translate directly to real fighting. Otherwise everytime somebody had a match somebody would go to the ER with life threatening injuries.

Basically it is the same difference between karate and boxing. The karate guy has a far more lethal arsenal of techniques but usually can't come close to the physical conditioning of a boxer. The boxer is in superior condition and can take and deliver very real hits, but has a very limited arsenal of weapons and no real finishing techniques.

The concept is also hardly new. In the days when martial artists fought for their lives the idea that a person would know only one system would be foolish. The Chinese boxing experts, the Japanese swordsmen and the Okinawans all sought to know (or have knowledge of) a wide variety of systems.

It was the Japanese in the early 20th century who came up with the notion of "pick one" and dedicate your entire life to it. Americans rediscovered "mixing systems" by the late 1960s when they began to create modern eclectics such as Kajukenbo, American Kenpo and concept arts like Jeet Kune Do. Kajukenbo is actually a combination of the words Karate, Judo, Kenpo and Boxing.

The only real difference is now it is a sport and guys are wearing speedos.

[Ferox13]

First off sorry for hijacking this thread :-) And you seem cool and all this is just internet banter. Also take into account that I have been a TMA practioner/teacher before I started MMA.

So I'll just address your comments:

The bad is it is still a sport with the confines of rules and regulations which don't translate directly to real fighting. Otherwise everytime somebody had a match somebody would go to the ER with life threatening injuries.

True it is sport but you do realise that it had very few rules - In the USA before the unified rules that only started slightly over 10 years ago in the USA things are very different.

In most old school MMA fights the only rules were no Eye Gouges/Fish hooks or throat strikes. That bars very little tools that could change the out come of a fight.

Under these rule sets very few striking stlye TMA artists did well at all. In UFC, a lot were beaten by a skinny BJJ stylist.

Basically it is the same difference between karate and boxing. The karate guy has a far more lethal arsenal of techniques but usually can't come close to the physical conditioning of a boxer. The boxer is in superior condition and can take and deliver very real hits, but has a very limited arsenal of weapons and no real finishing techniques.

Karate is a board term but I really think most styles of KArate have an unrealistic appraoch to combat (the exception being Kyokushin and its spin offs). If you do not train full contact with a full unresisting opponant then you have no concept of fighting.

Its strange that you seem to think that conditioning is the boxers main attribute when it is just a by product of their training methods. For the most part thier advantage over the average Karateka would be their footwork, combinations and experience to work through head/body trauma. I totally agree with you saying their style is limited and I think a leg kick would put any Boxer off their game plan.

The concept is also hardly new.

I totally agree. JKD concepts was basically MMA but what Bruce Lee was writing about didn't bring about what we now call MMA.

I whole attitude to Martial Arts changed when i started full contact and it wa a real wake up call for me. I'm not trying to dismiss you art and the art is only as good as the ppl you train with. I have to admit I never heard of Kajukenbo until I saw it on Fight Quest and I'm not going to make judgement on a silly program like that..

I had a look for Kajukenbo sparring online and couldn't find anything that didn't look like points fights..can u show me some links..

[SteyrAUG]

True it is sport but you do realise that it had very few rules - In the USA before the unified rules that only started slightly over 10 years ago in the USA things are very different.

In most old school MMA fights the only rules were no Eye Gouges/Fish hooks or throat strikes. That bars very little tools that could change the out come of a fight.

Under these rule sets very few striking stlye TMA artists did well at all. In UFC, a lot were beaten by a skinny BJJ stylist.

In a real fight I am going to do things like attack the eyes, destroy the knees or damage the windpipe at the first opportunity. I'm going to seek to destroy the weak parts of my opponents body with my strongest weapon.

These things simply don't happen in sports regardless of how close to reality they attempt to train. You simply can't do it for obvious reasons and you need rules to keep people from being crippled or killed.

Now do NOT misunderstand me. Guys who do UFC, K1 and things like that are doing really serious training and it probably isn't too hard for most of them to switch gears if they find themselves in a real world fight. Certainly they are probably better prepared than those who do "non contact" or "tag you are it" point fighting. The only point I'm stressing is you still have to train for "fights vs. sports" regardless of how advanced your martial sport has become.


Karate is a board term but I really think most styles of KArate have an unrealistic appraoch to combat (the exception being Kyokushin and its spin offs). If you do not train full contact with a full unresisting opponant then you have no concept of fighting.

Absolutely. I would take it a step further and say actual karate is now extremely rare. And it is nearly impossible to find it in any commercial dojo. This is because real martial arts are not about telling a student how "awesome" they are. Real martial arts are basics refined to advanced levels. The training is difficult, monotonous and repetitive and few people are willing to pay money for that experience much less devote the time and energy required to produce results.

This is why the usual karate that is encountered is motivational day care with some cool spinning kicks for good measure. Very few people even understand the point or purpose of basic simple things like kata and as often as not have an incorrect understanding of the applications within a given kata. They might as well be doing Jazzercise for all the benefit they are actually getting.


Its strange that you seem to think that conditioning is the boxers main attribute when it is just a by product of their training methods. For the most part thier advantage over the average Karateka would be their footwork, combinations and experience to work through head/body trauma. I totally agree with you saying their style is limited and I think a leg kick would put any Boxer off their game plan.

By "conditioning" I mostly mean the ability to get hit and keep fighting and the ability to actually hit somebody with something besides a "karate tag." I know people who actually believe they are black belt who have never been hit "for real" and don't know what it is to actually damage or injure people. But these are the things a boxer is typically familiar with and as a result they have a tremendous advantage, this is also the same advantage MMA stylists who train realistically have.


I totally agree. JKD concepts was basically MMA but what Bruce Lee was writing about didn't bring about what we now call MMA.

I whole attitude to Martial Arts changed when i started full contact and it wa a real wake up call for me. I'm not trying to dismiss you art and the art is only as good as the ppl you train with. I have to admit I never heard of Kajukenbo until I saw it on Fight Quest and I'm not going to make judgement on a silly program like that..

I had a look for Kajukenbo sparring online and couldn't find anything that didn't look like points fights..can u show me some links..

Finding guys who still do Kajukenbo correctly can be sorta like finding guys who do Karate correctly. One thing they have in common along with other serious minded martial arts is they don't feel the need to put themselves on youtube.

The only point where I think you are actually in error is your belief that MMA is somehow new, or revolutionary. Training methods always change, mindset is hardly ever new. If you think you are as "reality based" as the people who used to have opportunity to kill each other in the 19th century you are kidding yourself just a bit.

I'm also gonna follow up with a topic I did on another forum to further clarify a few things. I suspect you will find us more on the same page than not.

[SteyrAUG]

Practical Combat Conditioning...Lessons Learned

I have cross trained with both asian style martial artists and american boxers. I can sum them up as such... 1. Martial artists - Most lethal techniques combined with substandard conditioning and lack of practical experience. 2. Boxers - Superb conditioning, real time experience but hindered by confines of sport. I love to cross train the two. I enjoy the expression on a black belts face when he gets knocked on his ass for the first time. I also enjoy the look of horror when a boxer remains standing after 3 really good hits. I also enjoy a boxers frustration when a talented martial artist takes him outside his realm of experience. I love watching boxers have their legs attacked. I love to see them locked, chocked and pinned out. Because, ultimately the above helps both parties.

Martial artists are incredibly skilled with a dangerous arsenal of technique. But rarely do they train in a practical way. Seldom are they as conditioned as a boxer. They usually cannot take real hits and stay in the fight. They often have never really hit anybody before. This is because most martial arts are studied in a non contact academic manner. Kinda like learning to swim but never getting in the water. Boxers are in shape. But they have a woefully inadequate arsenal. Their defense is based on the presumption of 10-14oz. gloves for additional coverage, they don't block. They have a mere handful of strikes that become predictable regardless of the combination used. And they have no finishing techniques. If they cannot land a knockout, they cannot win. So if you are a martial artist, train like a boxer. If you are a boxer, fight like a martial artist.

Another item of note. Boxers condition their entire bodies EXCEPT for their hands. Martial artists coincidentally often condition ONLY their hands. Funny huh... Result is boxers who get into real fights almost always break their hands. Without wraps and gloves to protect them boxers generate far more power and force than their hands can sustain. Martial artists on the other hand, generally generate much less power but manage a greater capacity for destruction of the target. And here is the secret...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makiwara

It's called a "makiwara" and is designed to build hard hands for striking without sustaining injury.

http://marinshotokan.org/img/content/gallery/2004/Daniele%20Makiwara1%202004.jpg

They are simply made and incredibly effective. Most will skip the "straw makiwara" route for simpler designs. I use (2) 2x4s one 6ft. and one 3 ft. I screw them together to support each other but let the top unsupported 3 ft. section flex. I bury them 1 1/2 feet below ground ending up with a 4 1/2 ft. tall target. For the striking area I use a 1" rubber pad inside a large towel folded and wrapped around the top of the post. This gives me the rubber target on the striking face and several layers of thick towel. I then bind the towel in place by cords at the top and bottom of the padded area. You can protect it from rain by placing a bucket over it.

When struck correctly you flex the 2x4 with each strike as you attempt to penetrate the target with driving force. After several reps it feels as if you are striking bare wood. Use extreme caution at first as the wrist and knuckles will be vulnerable and prone to injury. This is a gradual process of hardening the hands. The idea is moderate continuous reps not a few full power strikes.

I do 500 strikes a day and have done so almost uninterrupted for the last 10 years. Though my reps used to be only 200 (100 each hand). Again be very careful. Soreness is normal, blood splatter is not. 50 moderate strikes is more beneficial than 10 massive hits.

Beginners will probably want to use a single 2x4 for the striking post. This gives reasonable flex with good resistance. I have used 3x4 fence posts but found them unable to be flexed. The result is the energy is returned to the body causing frequent injury. I only use 3x4s for conditioning the feet as kicks are quickly withdrawn from the target surface. 3x4s also do not adsorb as much use and eventually snap at the base. 2x4s and double 2x4s will also eventually break but are easily replaced for a few dollars.