Morals in life and death, are there any? [Archive] - Horror.com Forums

jay o2 waster

05-04-2004, 08:07 PM

Personally I believe in reincarnation, but that is my own opinion, and I am not trying to push it on anyboddy, because it is only my belief, and maybe I am wrong. But if am wrong, and my religinol views are the wrong, and it turns out that there is a hevan, I belive that as long as you are a decent human and do what is right, there is no reason that me or you or even wufongtan ::Shudders:: should be accepted to heaven.

All my life I have been told that I am going to hell. And when I ask why, I am told it is because I am not a Christian, or otherwise.

The best way that I can explain my views is by saying this: Picture a beautiful Medow. Now imagine that medow as being what happens when we die, wether it be Heaven, reincarnation or even Nirvana. Now there are about a billion diffrent paths that go to that medow, but no matter what one we take, they all end up going to the exact same place, the medow (Hevan, Reincarnation, Nirvana) Each path represents a diffrent belief system, but as long as we travle the path with good intentions and love in our hearts, we will all end up in the same medow.

IMO

~Blessed Be

death_to_all

05-04-2004, 08:37 PM

Reincarnation is one belief to take and a good one at that. I think that it could exist the thing is there is no real proof and no way to find out either. Say a person dies would it and could it be possible for them to come back and speak to you again but in as a different person or thing altogether. I believe and it is my right that it is possible but then again that's just the kind of person I am there are many people out there that will try and prove that I'm wrong but I'm not exactly trying to prove a point only a 'theory'.

I'm not a christian either but that doesn't make anyone any different from one another, there are many different beliefs in this world it just depends on which ones that you believe to be true. For instance a person may grow up in a place where religion is considered something of high importance then they will try and take a path into the right one no matter what their inner feelings may be.

I don't believe in many religions but there are some people out there that do and that is their right just as all people have their rights in believing what they want and having their own theories about things it's just in human nature to be like this. Curiosity about the world after death isn't so bad and isn't wrong either just as normal as can be.
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jay o2 waster

05-04-2004, 08:50 PM

I have investigated many religions, I have read a lot of the Christian Bible, I have read the Satanic Bible, some of the Torah and some of the Koran. But I have decided to devote my life Wicca. And I strongly support all religions.

last bad move

05-04-2004, 08:57 PM

i belive in carma thats pretty much my i guess you could call it religion

Targangil

05-05-2004, 01:22 AM

I don't believe in gods or any kind of afterlife, but I do believe in morals, and I believe that they are derived from ones upbringing and experiences.

feral cat

05-05-2004, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by Targangil
I don't believe in gods or any kind of afterlife, but I do believe in morals, and I believe that they are derived from ones upbringing and experiences.
... same for me!

Tumper

05-05-2004, 03:43 AM

Both very intelligent questions, and it’s good to see so many positive responses.

Personally my opinion of these matters are,

Morals are created by society and culture. They change to fit the needs and aspirations of mankind in any particular environment, but more importantly, they are a valuable measure of how healthy our culture is. The belief that certain actions and behaviours are wrong can only work when a society is capable of providing for it’s members without resorting to ‘evil acts’. When a society is in deep trouble, morality suffers (The greatest acts of offence to our morality are almost always commited in an environment of social and economic turmoil, or deprivation,. think ‘Genocide’ and ‘torture’) The rise of civilization gave birth to morality, and as mankind continues to grow and develop, so will our understanding of what is right and wrong. There will always be those who are capable of evil, but these people are either mentally unstable, or psychologically damaged. Morality is a neccersary and (for the most part) beneficial facet of the human development.

Life after death is a more perplexing issue altogether. I believe that some form of existence must continue after death, in some form or another. Even if this amounts to nothing more than a trace of our energy waves reverberating out into the cosmos (anyone who doubts that this really happens should read up on their particle physics) The fact is there are more things going on in the great universal show than we can comprehend. Nobody can say for certain if there is a conscious form of existence after our ‘death’. Very nice to speculate ‘tho. If anyone is interested in the scientific argument in support of ‘supernatural’ ideas. The I can highly recommend the works of Lyall Watson. In particular, “Supernature” and “Gifts of Unknown Things” easy reads, and guaranteed to put a little ‘wonder’ into your life.

Both of these matters are extremely relevant to what we call ‘horror’ so it’s good to discuss them.

fluffho

05-05-2004, 10:27 AM

i believe in some of this, some of that.. which is why i would never join any one religion/organization/whatever

same in school. i never belonged to a clique. I hung out with a few of everyone.

I like to be Kristin.. thats it. I don't want or need titles. "I'm Kristin. I'm Wiccan." or "I'm a christian" ....no

there are people who think their importance is based on who they know, or what they do, what they own.... and im not at all for that.

I've had christians go up to me and tell me 'God wants me to do all this great stuff for people so I go out and volunteer and feed homeless people'

and i say to them 'i spend at least 4 hours if not 12 a week volunteering and nobody tells me to do it but me'

I dont belong to anyone but myself.

cheebacheeba

05-05-2004, 10:46 AM

I am a taoist...

No....no I'm not...I just wanted to say that.:p

cheebacheeba

05-05-2004, 10:49 AM

Your bioelectricity becomes dormant. Your conciousness disinegrates. You cease to exist...

- Only answer I feel correct about giving, I believe nothing...

crazy clown

05-05-2004, 02:28 PM

i actually do believe in a god and a heaven and hell. i'm not super religious or anything (one of my main targets are organized religions, especially catholics) but i do think that there are some things out there. i haven't been to church in a year though... and i think that forcing your religion on someone else or blaming the jews for for jesus' death is completely wrong. and also going door to door asking if i'm ready for jehova's return isn't really cool.

but on the other hand some things about religions are too, strict. i'm not gay but mormons completely denouncing you just because of your sexual reference is a little much. catholicism and sex. muslims and how many times a day they have to pray to allah. just a little bit much for me.

morals have to do with how your opinions on certain things are. its basically how you view everything, be it sex, religion, cheating, etc.

btw, i'm christian in case you couldn't tell

orangestar

05-05-2004, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by cheebacheeba
Your bioelectricity becomes dormant. Your conciousness disinegrates. You cease to exist...

- Only answer I feel correct about giving, I believe nothing...

Thats exactly how I feel. The only thing that matters is living your life to the fullest because theres nothing after it. I used to believe in God and Heaven and all that stuff, but one day I just thought to myself "Wheres the proof" and I couldn't find an answer.

I try not to push my beliefs (or lack thereof) on anyone, but I have gotten in some pretty heated arguments over it.

About Morals...well I think everyone should have some, they dont necessarily have to fit with society's. Like peoples morals on sex stuff wont ever all be the same, its just a personal desicion.

Haunted

05-05-2004, 02:53 PM

Morality is a creation of societal norms...all that happy shit

Basically, we all are surrounded and stirred into a pot of morality and decision. I think the most basic is "don't kill." Honestly, anything beyond that seems subjective, unfortunately.

Oh and Cheeba....You are Taoist. You can't not be Taoist. :D

death_to_all

05-05-2004, 03:24 PM

Well morals are one thing and I know that everyone has different morals about what;s right and what's wrong, well anyway I don't have any real beliefs about religion only about what happens after we die. That's the main thing that counts in my opinion.
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Plaguewind

05-05-2004, 06:14 PM

First of all, let me say it's a subject I really like discussing... LoL

Now, I must say I'm perplexed by how most people here seem to be unable to dissociate morality and religion... Not that it's not a good thing to have a strong moral sense based on religion. It's just strange that most people seem unable to actually establish a difference between them... As if it there wasn't possible to have any kind of morality without religion... Do you know what I mean?

OK, the way I see it... Every human being is moral, in the sense that everyone approves of some things and disapproves of others... And I believe that it's something felt rather than... Hmmmm... Calculated. Still, what one will or won't approve is determined primarily by education, including there life in society... In my humble opinion, morality is born with sociability AND is essential to the maintenance of society... And THAT makes pretty easy to see why EVERY society has some kinda code of morals... LoL...

Guess I should add something... Hope I didn't make anyone think that I believe that morality has a... Well, lesser degree, just because it's a social construction... The way I see it, it's the cornerstone of society... And... Well, guess I don't have to spend much time convincing you guys of how civil life is probably more satisfying than going to the jungle and spending the rest of one's days in isolation, right?

Now, to finish what I wanted to say... It's common for some people to see morality as something really oppressive... Guess we should be careful not to mistake morality for the heinous concepts conservative people all over the world try to make us swallow in the name of it... *sigh*

death_to_all

05-05-2004, 06:58 PM

Well plaguewind that is definitely something to be considered wheh it comes to morals. I don't even know how religion cam into the conversation but basically a moral person isn't something that is entirely influenced on society it can be in some cases, but in others it is different considering that everyone thinks differently and feels that somethings matter while other things don't.

There may be some people that diagree with what other people's morals are but no one is right or wrong in the sense that no one is the same. We all think differently, look different even if we are brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers or whatever we may be made up of the same genes but no one is exactly the same. Even twins identical or fraternal are different they may have the same genetic makeup but that doesn't mean that they like everything that the other does. They may like some things but when it comes to morals they may feel differently.

It also depends on what kind of society a person grows up in a religious one means that many people may hold similar morals but none are eaxctly the same.
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fluffho

05-05-2004, 06:59 PM

I think religion came up because thats a majority of where people get their morals. basically, 'because GOd says so'

i talked to some people of my friends and they both said while theyre not too deeply in their religion, theyd raise their children on the bible because it teaches them good morals

Plaguewind

05-05-2004, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by death_to_all
Well plaguewind that is definitely something to be considered wheh it comes to morals. I don't even know how religion cam into the conversation but basically a moral person isn't something that is entirely influenced on society it can be in some cases, but in others it is different considering that everyone thinks differently and feels that somethings matter while other things don't.

There may be some people that diagree with what other people's morals are but no one is right or wrong in the sense that no one is the same. We all think differently, look different even if we are brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers or whatever we may be made up of the same genes but no one is exactly the same. Even twins identical or fraternal are different they may have the same genetic makeup but that doesn't mean that they like everything that the other does. They may like some things but when it comes to morals they may feel differently.

It also depends on what kind of society a person grows up in a religious one means that many people may hold similar morals but none are eaxctly the same.

Well, my friend... First of all, I guess I can say I just had to mention religion because a big part of the answers talked a bit about that...

Now, about morality and society... Well, of course each person has some different "natural" dispositions, but of course society and education play an important role in determining what someone will judge of as right or wrong... In a certain sense, you imply that when you say that people don't necessarily agree with each others beliefs concerning morality... By the way, hope I didn't give the impression that I think everyone approves and disapproves of the same things... What I meant is that everyone approves or disapproves of something...

Ah, if you guys would like to check something interesting about the subject... Well, just let me know, there are some pretty interesting writings on it...

death_to_all

05-05-2004, 07:07 PM

Yeah I agree the bible and religion is where most morals do come from but most we decide for ourselves, Or I know I do anyway. Where would any of us be if we followed something that may be incorrect it has to be based on fact, I know saying that the bible is wrong I'm just saying that there are too many people out there that believe in something that there aren't too sure about but there just want something to believe in.

It's what life is all about. Morals and believe in things that may be considered wrong or incorrect but most people still believe for the sake of it. Belief is something that is based on morals and is very much right! We have to believe to continue.
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death_to_all

05-05-2004, 07:09 PM

Of course everyone has some morals based on the makings of society but others are merely family, education or one's own workings of the mind. I don't disagree one bit it makes a lot of sense. What writings?
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Arioch

05-05-2004, 07:27 PM

i actually have alot of strict morals including what i consider right and wrong, and what i wont do as opposed to doing because its right. But very little of those said morals are based on my specific religious standpoint. They are based on common sense, and my own inherent political beliefs in not harming or oppressing any other human beings rights.....

Did that make sense? It made sense in my head.....ah well....

jay o2 waster

05-06-2004, 06:30 AM

everything i do is because satan makes me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tumper

05-06-2004, 06:38 AM

everything i do is because satan makes me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont believe anyone makes you do anything....I think your just one evil piece of work :p

jay o2 waster

05-06-2004, 06:41 AM

i guess so:) :D

Arioch

05-06-2004, 07:55 AM

everything i do is because satan makes me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoken like a true horror movie fan:p ...

death_to_all

05-06-2004, 03:33 PM

Well people may have morals but that doesn' mean they will always carry out what they believe to be right or wrong. Evil is something that is natural, a gift that many are given by satan and those that possess it shouldn't hide it or be punished for having. Pure hatred and evil is something that can be counted as good or bad!
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death_to_all

05-06-2004, 04:32 PM

There is a huge difference between what is real and what isn't the thing that most people find is, what is counted as real? There are some things that have happened in this world that is hard to place and sometimes isn't placed at all in either category. What makes this world real?

Is it real or does it only seem real? It is one thing to believe and another to think about something like that. Well I think that the world only seems real to us because we have lived in it our whole lives and can't find out what makes it real.

There may just be more dimensions than the eye can see and all we have to do is find a way to see.

What about the afterlife is there one? I like to think so if not then where do we go when we die?
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Plaguewind

05-06-2004, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Arioch
i actually have alot of strict morals including what i consider right and wrong, and what i wont do as opposed to doing because its right. But very little of those said morals are based on my specific religious standpoint. They are based on common sense, and my own inherent political beliefs in not harming or oppressing any other human beings rights.....

Did that make sense? It made sense in my head.....ah well....

A lot of sense to me... Sometimes we do what we want, sometimes we do what we have to...

I had promised some writings on the subjects... My fav is certainly An Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Morals, by David Hume. Sir Francis Hutcheson has some interesting works on it too... But you guys should keep in mind that they wrote in the 18th century before just go out there badmouthing them... Some (quite) different points of view from different times can be found in Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil and Genealogy of Moral, Sartre's L'Être et le Néant (sorry, forgot the title in English) and... I'd better stop, I don't think anyone will read much of this anyway... LoL

death_to_all

05-06-2004, 08:40 PM

Thanks plague your probably right no one will read much of it anyway. I think I might glance through some of the ones that you listed but nothing more than that. It interests me the way that different people around the world share some similar morals, but then they change or may not change throughout their lifetime, it's weird.
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Steve_Hutchison

05-07-2004, 05:22 AM

I've had a weird period of my life revolving around coincidences. I believe the secret of life lies withing coincidences. I'm not sure if I believe in absolute randomness or destiny. They are opposite theories but they're both very credible.

The timelines theory is very interesting also. For years, it has been believed to be linear but I'm starting to think its multidimensional, which means wherever a randomness factor exists, possibilities exist. And I think all possibilities exist in different dimensions, on different paths of life's timeline.

Am I making any sense?

Plaguewind

05-07-2004, 04:54 PM

Well, Mr. Hutchison... I'm quite convinced the secret of life is not taking it too seriously... Wish I could not take it too seriously sometimes... LoL

Well, dead_to_all... If you have a look at any of them, let me know what you think of those cute books, right?

death_to_all

05-09-2004, 07:43 PM

Well there are many secrets to life some of which none of us know nothing about. Well I believe in different dimensions there may not be any sustantial evidence to support it but you never know it just may exist.

I looked at a few of those books plague they're a little weird but interesting to try and follow. Anyway there may just be some sense in them but I can't follow them.

Steve I think you may be right about the multi-dimensional theory I believe and I think that there are many others that do too.
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Arioch

05-09-2004, 07:53 PM

My astronomy teacher tought us, although i question the validity of his certainty, that there are 9 different dimensions. 3 of which we can perceive (3d) and 6 of which we can not....

He was pretty into it, i dont know how he came upon this knowledge tho, but i thought it was pretty interesting...

Steve_Hutchison

05-10-2004, 07:09 AM

Scary :/

cheebacheeba

05-10-2004, 09:08 AM

Maybe he discovered the theory lying deep under a pile of decomposing foreskins?

Steve_Hutchison

05-10-2004, 09:21 AM

Teachers should be careful what they tell their students. Is that a fact or did he at least mention it was a theory?

nine9

05-10-2004, 12:54 PM

Well I'm a buddhist, yet I agree with mostly everyone I guess. I've also taken religious studies in University, so I've read alot of the stuff Jay has read, even The Satanic Bible which I still have a copy of. [Not from school].

I really like everyone's openmindedness here. Lots of very intelligent comments, and no religious rightwingers! I had a lot of arguments on another site with these types!

My oldest friend is a Pagan, and we find that we have alot in common as to our basic beliefs. You guys should go to Beliefnet.com and do their test on "What Religion Are You"?. It is based on what you answer to a number of questions. You can find out what is closest and farthest away from your belief system.

Really try it ... you'll be suprised! It is also hilarious! I am farthest away from Roman Catholic and Islam!

If I had to sum up my thoughts I'd be here all day, so if I can summerize I'll get back to you' all

Plaguewind

05-10-2004, 06:16 PM

OK, let me see what else I can say about it all...

Well, dead_to_all... As a matter of fact, I guess I can say only one of those books was written by an author who would say the precepts he wrote were to be followed, and that's Marcus Aurelius. Hume is more concerned about discovering how we come to approve and disapprove of things, though the second Enquiry certainly gives us some info on what he believed to be right... Nietzsche probably is more interested in criticize traditional morals and Sartre... Well, that's a far more complicated story... LoL

Now, Arioch... I got the impression the whole talk about dimensions has something to do with what some people mentioned on life after death... All I can say is... Though it certainly would influence any talk on morals... But honestly, I think that, at least for now, real knowledge about what lies in there is out of our reach... So it's probably more productive try to build a moral system based on this side, I guess...

Well, that's it, before I made you guys fall asleep on the keyboard... LoL... Hope this considerations were somehow useful...

nine9

05-10-2004, 06:32 PM

Again I have to say how impressed with everyone here I am!

I was on another forum, and these type of things came up, and I was just getting batted over the head with christian dogma! Just goes to show what horror fans are like! Open minded, and willing to accept new ideas. I think we are people who are fascinated with the unknown, and willing to explore anything!

So glad I've been aquainted with all of you. So much yet to explore!

Plaguewind

05-10-2004, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by nine9
Again I have to say how impressed with everyone here I am!

I was on another forum, and these type of things came up, and I was just getting batted over the head with christian dogma! Just goes to show what horror fans are like! Open minded, and willing to accept new ideas. I think we are people who are fascinated with the unknown, and willing to explore anything!

So glad I've been aquainted with all of you. So much yet to explore!

Well, what can I say... I'm glad to hear that... And partially agree with what you say... I'm also happy that I wasn't shot with Christian dogma, or anti-Christian one, you know... And glad to know all of you too! I mean it!

nine9

05-10-2004, 06:47 PM

Ditto Plaguewind!

you guys are great!

I feel like I finally found some people like me. Hard to find in a very conservative world, for the mostpart.

Plaguewind

05-10-2004, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by nine9
Ditto Plaguewind!

you guys are great!

I feel like I finally found some people like me. Hard to find in a very conservative world, for the mostpart.

Well, for the most part... A toast to the laudable exceptions... :)

nine9

05-10-2004, 07:01 PM

Damn right! I'll toast to that!

Plaguewind

05-10-2004, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by nine9
Damn right! I'll toast to that!

*raises glass*

death_to_all

05-11-2004, 04:26 PM

In this world of ours there are many people that believe in different things and the only real thing that matters is that they have a right to their own beliefs. I think that the multiple dimensions theory can be proved if the other six dimensions could be revealed. There is this book that has all these great theories and myths and stuff about it but I can't remember the name I tell you guys it when I find out, ok? Well considering that religion is a massive factor in morals than some things matter concerning them and others don't but I wont go into that right now.
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Plaguewind

05-11-2004, 06:42 PM

Well, my friend... The way I see it, the fact that other dimensions exist does not HAVE to have a moral implication, unless: 1 - we go to one of them after we die. 2 - what we do here affects what happens there. So... I'm not against going there and finding them, just saying that it would be precipitated to act in this or that way because there may be other dimensions...
Now, about religion playing an important role in morals... Well, it does, but my point is... Should it? Anyway, I must agree with the part in which you said everyone should have the right to express their own beliefs... The whole thing gets tough, because it's necessary that different beliefs may coexist, but it's a need... And it seems totally fair to me! So, in a sense, it's nearly impossible to keep religion out of this debate anyway...

death_to_all

05-11-2004, 07:31 PM

Well when it comes to religion some things arise about morals but then again others may arise about what role they play in a person's life. Is it so important that religion is so big a factor on so many people's lives that morals and how a person thinks reflects on that or is it completely different depending on the person. I think that it does depend on what kind of morals a person holds and whether or not they are affected or influenced by religion.
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Arioch

05-12-2004, 05:01 PM

Ive enjoyed reading both of your opinions on these issues. Its been a nice intellectual thread. Good form....

death_to_all

05-12-2004, 05:39 PM

Thanks, well when a person has a lot to say about something then it just so happens that they say what matters to them most. Whatever they feel is right then they say what's on their minds. Me for instance I think something and whatever I feel about strongly or weakly I have something to say on the matter no matter what.
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