I got to thinking.

[Deimos]

After all the news reports of abuse etc and recently watching a George Carlin special I got to thinking about the Religion I was baptized into before being old enough to have a choice. Do you believe in Christianity or is it dying???


What do you think.

[VampiricClown]

I believe in avoiding conversations with people regarding any sort of religious and/or political views.

[fiend_skull]

I second that thought, those kinds of conversations just end up in arguments or such.

[newb]

I believe in avoiding conversations with people regarding any sort of religious and/or political views.

this may be a first...I agree :D

[novakru]

I don't think Christianity is dying.
I do think people are questioning what church leaders are saying more and that's good.
Change is GOOOOD.
Most people are not so deluded as to not know right from wrong etc etc

You also cannot lump 'abusers' into Christianity...I think people who abuse are equal opportunists.

I do not go to church anymore, I feel smothered but that's just me.

Some people get a nice refresh for the week after going to church-it works for them and that's awesome.
Some people go to enforce their small mindedness and hatred and the belief that they are better than everyone else cause they go to church every Sunday.
That's fundamental human nature.
You will find that EVERYWHERE.

It's not a black or white issue and cannot be summed up with a poll or a discussion or even get close to a solution.

People will do what People want to do-period.

[cheebacheeba]

I got to thinking about the Religion I was baptized into before being old enough to have a choice.
I think you'll find this is nearly always the case.

None of the selections suit me.
I don't "follow" any given religion, though I live by a general code of ethics and honesty that I believe could well be suited to all or any of them - The whole "do unto others" bit, with a little "don't be an asshole" thrown in will generally have a person do more good than bad.
I don't worship deities that may or may not be created by man.
I don't tell those who follow religion that they're wrong, yet I don't let them tell me that I am either.
I do not agree with religion being "taught" at schools by having students attend church is the right way to go, and think that when this is the case education hours are essentially wasted.
I believe that a person should always have the right to, or not to follow up on religion for themselves - I think that the role of parents should be to explain things from an unbiased perspective only when asked...not just go to what's in their own book. If someone can find value in churchgoing, praise, or any of the like, if it suits them and makes their life better, all is well.
I am highly offended by ANYONE who tries to shove religion down anyone elses throat.
While I do not believe in any given "God" as described in religious texts, I do believe that something made us turn out the way we did...perhaps an entity, perhaps not...I will not blindly follow anything or embrace uncertainty, as this was the way I was made to operate. Going against this would be wrong, and an insult to whatever made me the way that I am.

I don't think there are any bad religions, just bad approaches and poor handling.

[Ferox13]

As an ordained minister in a Church I'm obviously I'm a religious man...

But to address the OP - isn't the child abuse thing more a Catholic problem rather than all Christian religions. I know it is in Ireland and the UK. And also to say that 'people who abuse are equal opportunists' as Nov said needs to be expanded on... Childabusers end to find positions where they have access to children (like priest/teacher/coach/youth leader). But that is not the real problem with the Catholic church and th child abuse scandel - the biggest kick in the teeth as the reaction by the Church Hierarchy and how they dealt with it...They made huge payoffs to the familys of abused children so they wouldn't bring charges against the priest and wouldn't bring the abuse to the public's knowledge..They then moved the priest to another parish where in some cases the abuse continued..This knowledge went all the way to the top...

How anyone can support a church like this is beyond me - sure its just a few 'bad apples' as people like to say but its the Church Hierachy its self that tryed to cover up and hide the fact that representatives of its organisation were raping children - and instead of outting these criminals or as least removing them from positions where they could continue to do harm they instead just relocated them to another parish...

sorry for the rant but its just something I feel strongly about..

[Straker]

I don't think whether your priest is abusing children should really affect whether or not you believe in god. Anyone who is swayed by that should really spend a bit more time thinking about their belief structure. Christianity is certainly evolving and doesn't have the same following as maybe it has in the past, at least thats the way it seems over here in England. Personally speaking, I'm atheist, but I do believe religion has a place in society and can be used positivly for those that choose to follow a specific faith. People need to make there own choices and decisions in life. I think as long as people are educated correctly and can engage with the question independatly, then religion should and will always have a place in society and that's not a bad thing.

[missmacabre]

I too was baptized into Christianity. Many people here know I have had conflicts with the church and my church friends since a very young age, and it's the people I just can't stand. I think because of the whole baptism thing most people who are Christian have been since birth. They have never questioned or researched their own religion, and instead just follow blindly, making decisions based on half-truths.

So I went on a "journey of self-discovery" or whatever, and researched a lot of religions and cultures. As much as I'm for the science and evolution thing, I couldn't commit totally to atheism (Atheists have a bad reputation for not giving a shit about the feelings of people who choose to be religious, and I don't like that). Eventually I decided Buddhism was best for me, it has everything I like about Christiany, without all the crappy sheeple.

In short, all religions follow the same core principles, like treating others how they would like to be treated. It's all about choosing how you want to worship, where, when. The little details that fit best into your life and make it feel right to believe. If I reallly had to go into it, I would argue that everyone worships the same God, and that the truth got lost along the way, leaving space for interpretation and purposeful changes to help world leaders.

[Straker]

As much as I'm for the science and evolution thing, I couldn't commit totally to atheism (Atheists have a bad reputation for not giving a shit about the feelings of people who choose to be religious, and I don't like that). Eventually I decided Buddhism was best for me, it has everything I like about Christiany, without all the crappy sheeple.


Would you say that the absense of a deity makes you atheist anyway though? Buddhism, in its purest sense, is more a philosophy than religion. I always felt that religious texts were more a collection of wisdoms to be used as a resource, personally. Atheism really isnt about hating religion or not caring about other religions, its not even about having a definative belief structure, its simply about not following a faith or more specifically not believing in or worshiping deities. Anything beyond that becomes personal philosophy and belief structure and is not part of atheism.

[missmacabre]

Would you say that the absense of a deity makes you atheist anyway though? Buddhism, in its purest sense, is more a philosophy than religion. I always felt that religious texts were more a collection of wisdoms to be used as a resource, personally. Atheism really isnt about hating religion or not caring about other religions, its not even about having a definative belief structure, its simply about not following a faith or more specifically not believing in or worshiping deities. Anything beyond that becomes personal philosophy and belief structure and is not part of atheism.

What I was saying about all religions sharing the same core concepts might be what you're getting at about Buddhism being a philosophy. In that case, every religion wouldn't be a religion. In Buddhism there is the worshiping of the Buddha, practicing the teachings, and then your group or community, which differs depending on if you're monastic.

Anyway, I don't think all atheists are bad people, just like I know not all religious people are blind followers. It's just with the internet a lot of people who happen to be atheist will go to extremes because of their anonymity. They go on forums for church groups and either hack their sites, or have an organized amount of people troll the forums. Not all religious people are bad, and in flaming and trolling them it really makes atheism look bad. It's also ironic because they claim to be against people like the Westboro Baptist church, and Fox news etc etc, but they are acting no better than them. I would just rather not be associated with either extreme.

[Straker]

What I was saying about all religions sharing the same core concepts might be what you're getting at about Buddhism being a philosophy. In that case, every religion wouldn't be a religion. In Buddhism there is the worshiping of the Buddha, practicing the teachings, and then your group or community, which differs depending on if you're monastic.

Anyway, I don't think all atheists are bad people, just like I know not all religious people are blind followers. It's just with the internet a lot of people who happen to be atheist will go to extremes because of their anonymity. They go on forums for church groups and either hack their sites, or have an organized amount of people troll the forums. Not all religious people are bad, and in flaming and trolling them it really makes atheism look bad. It's also ironic because they claim to be against people like the Westboro Baptist church, and Fox news etc etc, but they are acting no better than them. I would just rather not be associated with either extreme.

What I was getting at is that Buddah isn't worshipped as a deity, just a teacher, so by definition Buddhism is broadly an atheist mentality. I'm not arguing a position so much as wanting to get your take on that idea. I don't much like being associate in any way with the mentality often associated with atheism, but since I don't believe in God I am by nature atheist.

[missmacabre]

What I was getting at is that Buddah isn't worshipped as a deity, just a teacher, so by definition Buddhism is broadly an atheist mentality. I'm not arguing a position so much as wanting to get your take on that idea. I don't much like being associate in any way with the mentality often associated with atheism, but since I don't believe in God I am by nature atheist.

Yeah, can't say I am educated enough to really know what I'm talking about here BUT the way I saw it was that yes he was a teacher, much like Jesus, but by reaching Nirvana and gaining spiritual enlightenment he would be considered more of a deity than a regular joe. I don't know all the details there though, so you could very well be right and by definition I would be considered an atheist...

and I don't totally have a problem with that either. I love science, the cosmos, space exploration. For the most part, I believe in evolution over intelligent design. I can spend an entire day listening to Carl Sagan and Neil Degrasse Tyson. I wanted to work at NASA most of my life but was stopped by the horrible realization that I get sick when I am driving in a car for 5 minutes, never mind a spacecraft.

[missmacabre]

4E-_DdX8Ke0

[ferretchucker]

I disagree with what it can do to some people and how some choose to follow it but as for the teachings behind the storys, I think they make a whole lot of sense. I don't personally believe what I read in the bible nor do I go to church but essentially Christianity, like all other religions, is about living your life to it's fullest potential. Some may twist that into a light that they think is right but that doesn't mean the entire religion is false. I respect peoples choice to follow it and none of those options apply to me. Sorry.

[Doc Faustus]

I believe in an organized principle behind existence, a wisdom at the core of the chaos, but I do not believe in any religion. I believe that belief in an omnipresence is moot in some ways and that no omnipresence would care whether you choose to believe in it or a non omnipresence. If an omnipresence allows for the possibility of dissent, it must not care about whether it is worshipped or not or else it comprehends that all stories are true. I believe that certain thoughtforms have asserted themselves in the collective unconscious through our misplaced worship and repressed desires and have poisoned the well. They want people to persecute, act selfish and harm each other in the pursuit of power. It is these gods that we have allowed to be through our directed, thoughts, prayers, actions and desires. These are the gods of the child molester, the bigot and the war monger, people who all think that they're pious and decent but are all slaves to warped, tyrannical archetypes. You are better off worshipping Captain Crunch, the Flash, Cobra Commander or Sephiroth than these people's gods, who are thoroughly different from the gods of good, thoughtful Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, etc. The important thing is you keep up a dialogue with forces that make sense to you, whatever they might be and use the judgment to know which ones will make you a better, more productive, more loving person and which ones will make you a dickface. If you choose none at all over some greedy shithead god that tells you it's okay to touch little children, it's fine by me.

[The Krell]

Though I would have worded it more clumsily,I agree with Doc completely on the subject.In all religions there are thoughts and ideas that can both help and hinder our personal development.The tough part is finding what works for each of us individually.
If this world adhered to the following list,we would live in a paradise.
Mohandas Gandhi's 7 deadly sins....
1 Wealth without work
2 Pleasure without conscience
3 Science without humanity
4 Knowledge without character
5 Politics without principle
6 Commerce without morality
7 Worship without sacrifice

I am no expert but I would think you would find at least a nugget of these ideas in all religions.So hopefully somewhere in these words we all can find it in ourselves to not have sex with young boys nor to conclude that all homosexuals are pedophiles.I'm just sayin'.;)

[Doc Faustus]

Mohandas Gandhi's 7 deadly sins....
1 Wealth without work
2 Pleasure without conscience
3 Science without humanity
4 Knowledge without character
5 Politics without principle
6 Commerce without morality
7 Worship without sacrifice



Wonderful sentiments.

[_____V_____]

So glad to see someone quoting Mahatma Gandhi. He has been the single biggest inspiration for several generations of Indians. The only individual whose spiritual presence has been much, much bigger than his physical one in our country.