Milo & Otis the only true snuff film

[Elvis_Christ]

Good article on Milo & Otis:

http://theculturalgutter.com/movies/is_milo_in_heaven_mommy.html

[Despare]

Good article on Milo & Otis:

http://theculturalgutter.com/movies/is_milo_in_heaven_mommy.html

I actually talked a bit about all the crap being said about Milo and Otis in my Netflix review after a TON of research. This film was watched over by The Japan Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, The Japan Animal Welfare Society, The Japan Animal Protection & Administration Society, The Japan Veterinarian Medicine Associations, and The Japan Pets Association. It was also shot by a zoologist who loved animals on his personal animal refuge in a very controlled environment. There is no evidence to suggest that any animals were killed during the making of this movie and the amount of cats and dogs that played Milo and Otis can be contributed to the films long, four year shooting time.

[Elvis_Christ]

Are they the people that supervised Eel Soup?

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

great movie. I remember the part with the crab :p

[bloody_ribcut]

is there a part where a porcupine sticks the dog in the face, or is that a different movie?

[Ferox13]

Are they the people that supervised Eel Soup?

Its ok if its for ART......


I heard that Lassie was on crack for at least 2 of his films and that John Hurt ate a live elephant to get into the part during the shooting of Lynch's THE ELEPHANTMAN. Don't even get me started on THE KINGDOM OF THE SPIDERS.

[Despare]

Are they the people that supervised Eel Soup?

Nope, but maybe you should put that up on the internet so people will think that, some folks believe anything they read.

[The Mothman]

is there a part where a porcupine sticks the dog in the face, or is that a different movie?

Thats from Homeward bound.
Interesting article, I'm not sure what to believe.

[Despare]

Thats from Homeward bound.
Interesting article, I'm not sure what to believe.

Nobody has any proof so really, it's whatever you want to believe. Some people want to think they killed and hurt a bunch of animals (seriously, the crab scene, like any inquisitive animal doesn't experience something like that in nature) and they will believe that. Others will believe that everything went on without a hitch. The Humane Society who had heard allegations of abuse said: "We have tried through humane people in Japan, and through another Japanese producers to determine if these rumors are true but everything has led to a dead end." That means we'll never know the truth, but it doesn't matter, because Milo and Otis kicks ass anyway and I'll be showing it to my kids for sure.

[ferretchucker]

Haven't seen it so I can't really judge. It'd be a huge shame if it was, but like Despare says, there's no real evidence to support it.

Still...you never know with the Japanese.

[Ferox13]

Some people want to think they killed and hurt a bunch of animals .

I was in my local supermarket and it was like some sorta morgue - dead animals every where. Who gives a shit if the animals are killed for a movie or to be stuck in a freezer in Walmart.......

[Freak]

Given the fact that the Japanese will eat anything that moves.And there teams that roam the cities kill dogs and cats in the most brutal ways I wouldn't be suprised if they did kill a bunch of animals.

[Despare]

I was in my local supermarket and it was like some sorta morgue - dead animals every where. Who gives a shit if the animals are killed for a movie or to be stuck in a freezer in Walmart.......

It's the difference we created by domesticating certain animals. I love animals, some as pets and some as dinner. MMmmm mmmm. Some Japanese regard animals as property and others (like the director) are huge animal lovers.

[Elvis_Christ]

Animals don't deserve to be property, dinner or domesticated.
It's not our fuckin' right either.
Exploiting the weak and voiceless is typical of humanity's selfishness.

[Ferox13]

It's the difference we created by domesticating certain animals. I love animals, some as pets and some as dinner. MMmmm mmmm. Some Japanese regard animals as property and others (like the director) are huge animal lovers.

But certain asian countries eat the animals that we domesticate as pets - i don't see it it as a huge difference that animal is killed on screen or for dinner. I'm sure there has been 100's of threads on 100's of boards discussing how deplorable the turtle scene is in Cannibal Holocaust and these same people sit down to roast beef every Sunday.

[scouse mac]

Ive no wish to see animals killed for real on screen, it just seems to be unnecessary.

The water buffalo which is killed in Apocalypse Now or the rabbit in Necromantik are in the films for symbolism but would it really matter if they had used fakes or altered the manner in which the scene was shot?

[The Mothman]

Who gives a shit if the animals are killed for a movie or to be stuck in a freezer in Walmart.......
I do..........

[cheebacheeba]

Some Japanese regard animals as property and others (like the director) are huge animal lovers.
Yeah, that's bigger than just asian countries...seriously, there's a lot of folks in the Western world that consider their "pets" as little more than roaming property, keep them outside all the time regardless of weather, speak to them only to bark orders, use violence to enforce, don't feed or care for them properly etc, won't even take them to the vet when they have an obvious condition, and often employ the "just an animal" routine to justify a lot of this kind of treatment.

You can't really blame the Japanese for their choice of diet any more than you or I are cow killers, veal and lamb are really "wrong" in the grand scheme of things but consumption of these products is at an all time high.
As for other asian countries where animals considered by us as pets are eaten, it's not like an all of a sudden kind of thing where they just say "I'm going to eat someones pet dog, it's about availability, finance, and what one is bought up to perceive as normal.

Sustenance vs Entertainment, is the real issue at hand here.
I have heard the facts and/or rumours about this particular film though have never been too inclined to look into it - I'm not much of a fan of animal performance either so films like this aren't really my thing generally.

[Despare]

Animals don't deserve to be property, dinner or domesticated.
It's not our fuckin' right either.
Exploiting the weak and voiceless is typical of humanity's selfishness.

So you don't swat mosquitoes if they land on you or trap a mouse that might wander into your home I hope. I love my dog, yay for domestication.

Ive no wish to see animals killed for real on screen, it just seems to be unnecessary.

The water buffalo which is killed in Apocalypse Now or the rabbit in Necromantik are in the films for symbolism but would it really matter if they had used fakes or altered the manner in which the scene was shot?


Wasn't the buffalo used as food though? I don't know, I remember an ex-girlfriend going to Africa and to thank her group they brought in and slaughtered a goat for their "feast". It would have insulted the people had they not ate it. I have no problem eating dead animals, I do have a problem with people killing for entertainment or "sport" (hunting is fine to me, but to not eat the animal and hunt for "trophies" is disgusting).

[Elvis_Christ]

I'm sure there has been 100's of threads on 100's of boards discussing how deplorable the turtle scene is in Cannibal Holocaust and these same people sit down to roast beef every Sunday.

Yeh shit like that has me shaking my head. How fuckin' blind to reality can you be.

Its like the "humanly slaughtered" thing. There's no such thing no matter how people sugarcoat it.

So you don't swat mosquitoes if they land on you or trap a mouse that might wander into your home I hope. I love my dog, yay for domestication.

Ok Mr Facetious...

Killed a mouse in a trap awhile back and felt like a real prick so I don't do that anymore. I shoo bugs away without killing them or put them outside.

[Despare]

Killed a mouse in a trap awhile back and felt like a real prick so I don't do that anymore. I shoo bugs away without killing them or put them outside.

Good for you, that's your style and you should be happy with it. I won't yell at you, condemn you, or call you a pussy for it. I eat meat, and I like it.

[stacilayne]

I did a lot of research on this for my book (ANIMAL MOVIES GUIDE), and to me the most valuable resource was the cinematic section of the American Humane Society's website. They don't monitor foreign films, but sometimes they talk about them.

http://www.americanhumane.org/protecting-animals/programs/no-animals-were-harmed/recently-released-movies.html


I can't watch stuff like Cannibal Holocaust. And I've often wondered if that lizard in Argento's DEEP RED really is peirced by a needle. Sure looks realistic.

http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/film_review.asp?ID=125


And of course, there's the (true) story of at least one horse dying during the remake of My Friend Flicka (just called Flicka).

Staci

[Despare]

I did a lot of research on this for my book (ANIMAL MOVIES GUIDE), and to me the most valuable resource was the cinematic section of the American Humane Society's website. They don't monitor foreign films, but sometimes they talk about them.

http://www.americanhumane.org/protecting-animals/programs/no-animals-were-harmed/recently-released-movies.html


I can't watch stuff like Cannibal Holocaust. And I've often wondered if that lizard in Argento's DEEP RED really is peirced by a needle. Sure looks realistic.

http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/film_review.asp?ID=125


And of course, there's the (true) story of at least one horse dying during the remake of My Friend Flicka (just called Flicka).

Staci

They provide a LOT of insight to animal treatment in film, I've been there a lot myself. Good link. There are some HORRIBLE things done to animals in films, it's reprehensible how many movies have the "Unacceptable" rating.

[Ferox13]

The trip wires they used to use on horses back in the day used to freak me out - epecially that Heston movie Khartoum. Some nasty falls in that..

Got knows what was going on here:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a360/ferox-13/652.gif

[Roderick Usher]

No creature (human or animal) should be hurt for film's sake. If you can't get the 'realism" of the scene any other way, then you are lacking in both skill and creativity.

That said. I find the domesticaion of animals more upsetting than the consuming of animals. We have teeth designed for chewing (vegetation) grinding (nuts & seeds) and tearing (flesh). We are desigend to do this.

"Pets" are animals suffering the indignity of not being allowed to behave like animals.

[Ferox13]

"Pets" are animals suffering the indignity of not being allowed to behave like animals.

But isn't the domestication of 'livestock' depriving those animals their freedom to be animals too..I really don't hink a veal crate is where any animal should naturally end up..

[newb]

Killed a mouse in a trap awhile back and felt like a real prick so I don't do that anymore. I shoo bugs away without killing them or put them outside.


I'm the same way.....untill recently....I have a mouse in the house and it's got my wife really freaked out. I've tried "humane" traps but so far no good. I have two dogs who are useless...one will sit and bark at the wall and the other will run around in circles and piss on the floor. If not for the dogs I would consider getting a cat. But the wife is so freaked, that I think it's having an effect on my sex life....THAT WILL NOT DO. So I got me some traps....KILLER TRAPS. Not those foolish sticky ones...now those are inhumane..poor little guy gets stuck and bites his leg off trying to free himself. No.....I got the one that will break their necks.....fast and effective. I'm not happy about it.....but if it's between getting laid or getting rid of the mouse......sorry Mickey.

[Despare]

I'm the same way.....untill recently....I have a mouse in the house and it's got my wife really freaked out. I've tried "humane" traps but so far no good. I have two dogs who are useless...one will sit and bark at the wall and the other will run around in circles and piss on the floor. If not for the dogs I would consider getting a cat. But the wife is so freaked, that I think it's having an effect on my sex life....THAT WILL NOT DO. So I got me some traps....KILLER TRAPS. Not those foolish sticky ones...now those are inhumane..poor little guy gets stuck and bites his leg off trying to free himself. No.....I got the one that will break their necks.....fast and effective. I'm not happy about it.....but if it's between getting laid or getting rid of the mouse......sorry Mickey.

I had a mouse this year, and my cat cuddled up with it. I caught it in a plastic cup and tossed it into the woods. Haven't had to use a killing trap yet.

Interesting point on domestication Rod, but do you think animals can have a sense of dignity? I think it's more of a concept and I highly doubt a dog or cat (or even a pig or horse) could understand or grasp that concept. I was reading about the domestication of dogs and cats the other day and really, it was the animals that basically chose to be domesticated through accepting the scraps of hunters, following them around, and helping to guard their camps. Cats are a completely different story and are more true to their ancestors. I won't bore everybody with all the details (check into "Mental Floss presents In the Beginning: From Big Hair to the Big Bang, mental_floss presents a Mouthwatering Guide to the Origins of Everything ") as it's a GREAT read) but I think domestication has benefited certain creatures.

[wufongtan.]

Yeah, that's bigger than just asian countries...seriously, there's a lot of folks in the Western world that consider their "pets" as little more than roaming property, keep them outside all the time regardless of weather.

My dog is my property. I own it. It isn't free to do as it wishes. so what? My dog stays out side all the time if it rains it can crawl under the house. I think its dirty to let a dog into the house.Animals aren't the same as humans. get over it.
Yeh shit like that has me shaking my head. How fuckin' blind to reality can you be.

Its like the "humanly slaughtered" thing. There's no such thing no matter how people sugarcoat it.
Ok Mr Facetious...
Killed a mouse in a trap awhile back and felt like a real prick so I don't do that anymore. I shoo bugs away without killing them or put them outside.
Thats super cool. Do you own a car? If so what about all the polar bears you kill, when your car releases all that co2 and causes global warming? Do you live in a house? If so what about all the animals who have lost their habit and there have died because you don't want to live in a cave? What about clothes. producing the clothes you wear kills a lot of animals. what with habitat destruction and so forth. Not to mention all the animals that die producing your food. ( yes even vegtables cause the death of animals).

[Despare]

My dog is my property. I own it. It isn't free to do as it wishes. so what? My dog stays out side all the time if it rains it can crawl under the house. I think its dirty to let a dog into the house.Animals aren't the same as humans. get over it.


The dog isn't dirty if you take care of it. I hope animal control takes your dog away, besides, if what you post on here is any reflection of your intelligence then you're not smart enough to have a pet.

[wufongtan.]

The dog isn't dirty if you take care of it. I hope animal control takes your dog away, besides, if what you post on here is any reflection of your intelligence then you're not smart enough to have a pet.

My dog is well taken care of. But i still find dogs or any animal in the house to be dirty. And how am i any less intelligent than anyone else because. I think of my dog as my pet and not my "companion"? You saying that someone is stupid because they don't think as you is the height of arogrance.

[Elvis_Christ]

I'm the same way.....untill recently....I have a mouse in the house and it's got my wife really freaked out. I've tried "humane" traps but so far no good. I have two dogs who are useless...one will sit and bark at the wall and the other will run around in circles and piss on the floor. If not for the dogs I would consider getting a cat. But the wife is so freaked, that I think it's having an effect on my sex life....THAT WILL NOT DO. So I got me some traps....KILLER TRAPS. Not those foolish sticky ones...now those are inhumane..poor little guy gets stuck and bites his leg off trying to free himself. No.....I got the one that will break their necks.....fast and effective. I'm not happy about it.....but if it's between getting laid or getting rid of the mouse......sorry Mickey.

:D fair enough dude! Good to hear you don't use the glue traps those things are just plain fucked. If I was infested and overun with vermin I'd have to set traps but yeh its a last resort.

We have teeth designed for chewing (vegetation) grinding (nuts & seeds) and tearing (flesh). We are desigend to do this.

We also have a mind to take the more ethical option.

Gorillas have similar teeth and don't eat meat (a few bugs aside).

besides, if what you post on here is any reflection of your intelligence then you're not smart enough to have a pet.

Totally agree with you there Despare.

I was gonna reply what Wufong said but he's just fuckin' trollin' so I can't be bothered wasting my time.

[Despare]

Good to hear you don't use the glue traps those things are just plain fucked.


Glue traps are disgusting, I can't believe they're around still. The animal struggles and often gets stuck on its side until it starves to death, or sometimes it will just try to eat the food and get its face stuck to the glue and it suffocates. Incredible that they're even legal, traps are one thing but glue traps...

[Elvis_Christ]

Glue traps are disgusting, I can't believe they're around still. The animal struggles and often gets stuck on its side until it starves to death, or sometimes it will just try to eat the food and get its face stuck to the glue and it suffocates. Incredible that they're even legal, traps are one thing but glue traps...

The powers that be were looking at making them illegal over here, I don't recall what happened about it. I haven't seen any on the shelves for awhile so I guess there outta here.

[newb]

Glue traps are disgusting, I can't believe they're around still. The animal struggles and often gets stuck on its side until it starves to death, or sometimes it will just try to eat the food and get its face stuck to the glue and it suffocates. Incredible that they're even legal, traps are one thing but glue traps...

Agree 100%.....where's PETA...They get all over the President for swatting a fly yet I can go in any hardware or home store and buy these by the dozen.

[Elvis_Christ]

PETA are idiots that's where there at

[wufongtan.]

Totally agree with you there Despare.

I was gonna reply what Wufong said but he's just fuckin' trollin' so I can't be bothered wasting my time.

No you was going to reply, but you know i'm right. Face it you preach how its so bad to kill animals. But yet by your everyday actions you kill thousands or even millions of animals. You can't refute that, so you call me a troll as some lame attempt to save face. But meh. I'd rather be thought of as some troll than a fucked hypocrite like yourself.

[cheebacheeba]

If you breathe, you kill life. If you step on a small bug without seeing it, you end a life. If you go to the doctor and have yourself cured of a disease, that's more life gone.
People need transport sometimes - while I don't get behind driving to the local shops, if it's a place that isn't within stones throw I see no problem with it. There's always carpooling, public shared transport and bicycling to be taken into consideration too but when it comes down to it if a person needs to say, get to work on time and work's an hour away, the done thing would be to drive...not everyone has the time or situation to always organise other means. People need refrigeration to store food in optimal condition, so that they don't have to waste it, by throwing it out and insulting whatever life has been lost or made effort to create what's in there - besides, there IS an energy rating system.
You can't really blame a person simply for existing, living in the world that they do and employing the technology that's available to them...
People can though take steps to effect the environment and those that share it, in a minimal way. Ethical products, recycling, not being wasteful, more environmentally friendly cars, not using excessive amounts of power, energy saving globes, growing and eating your own produce with chemical-free means, to mention but a few things.

However, I don't really think that's the issue here and pretty off topic when you look at it.
You can't exactly call someone a hypocrite on the basis that they live within normal means, simply because they don't agree with a death being required for effect in a medium of entertainment. You'd have to be pretty dim, or simply looking for means to insult someone not to see that there's a pretty clear line of difference there.

Not those foolish sticky ones...now those are inhumane..poor little guy gets stuck and bites his leg off trying to free himself.

I'd agree on that - though there are other options like this one
http://www.pest-control-warehouse.co.uk/humane_mouse_traps.html
Usually those work without issue - the mice go in, they just can't get out.
Then you just take them someplace else.
There's also those electronic ones that employ sonic technology to keep pretty much anything smaller than a rat away, inclusive of certain types of insects - though if you were considering this I'd test it in the presence of your pets to make sure it doesn't irritate or scare them either.

That said if something like those things didn't work, and it was an ongoing problem at that point I wouldn't consider myself "above" having someone gas the joint, generally more effective than killing them one by one.

We have teeth designed for chewing (vegetation) grinding (nuts & seeds) and tearing (flesh)
Not certain, but I recal reading someplace that last one there was something that evolved, which would probably explain why our body doesn't play so well with animal fats.

My dog is my property. I own it. It isn't free to do as it wishes. so what? My dog stays out side all the time if it rains it can crawl under the house. I think its dirty to let a dog into the house.Animals aren't the same as humans. get over it.

So...you just proved my point?
I think somebody may have pointed this out, but if you don't keep your animal in conditions so that it'll become dirty, it's a non issue - if a child rolls around in mud, said child gets washed.
Leaving an animal unclean is an invitation to all manner of infestations and zootosis, which can drastically reduce not only the quality, but also the length of life of the animal.
Though you haven't said you *don't* clean yours, and claim they're taken care of (though you and I differ in our perception there), you've only really said that you think it's dirty, so assuming that's true your actions can't be put down to complete lack of responsibility, though I might question your logic.

You're right, animals aren't the same as humans. I don't sit mine up at the dinner table 'nor do they sleep on my bed, though I do think it's a basic duty of care to ensure the animal is kept clean and in good condition, and yes I consider them in terms of companion/friend, so if I kept an outdoor animal and it was cold I'd let them inside...or as a second option have an appropriate outdoor area set up for them that's sheltered, with sleeping materials, and free of drafts.

There's no point telling anyone to "get over it", because I was over it before I was ever under it, I do what I do and that works for me - what you do and how you're perceived is on you.

[Elvis_Christ]

No you was going to reply, but you know i'm right. Face it you preach how its so bad to kill animals. But yet by your everyday actions you kill thousands or even millions of animals. You can't refute that, so you call me a troll as some lame attempt to save face. But meh. I'd rather be thought of as some troll than a fucked hypocrite like yourself.

Whatever dude you don't know shit about my everyday actions. I try and do my part to try and minimize my impact on the enviroment etc and employ a few of the things cheeba mentioned in his post like public transport, recycling, buying locally/ethically.

[giller]

Japanese are the kings, all the rest are apprentices

[Despare]

Not certain, but I recal reading someplace that last one there was something that evolved, which would probably explain why our body doesn't play so well with animal fats.


I think we've discussed this before. If it was in fact a trait from evolution then it was better than not having the teeth to eat flesh correct? I mean, that's the whole point of evolution after all...

[wufongtan.]

Not certain, but I recal reading someplace that last one there was something that evolved, which would probably explain why our body doesn't play so well with animal fats..
Actually our bodies cope well with animal fats. Some even say its a essential part of our diet. HUmans have evovled to eat meat. The trouble is, human evolotion hasn't kept up with human advancement. Our whole evolution process has invovled working hard for our meat. Meat was a rare yet important treat. Which some say is the reason behind human obesity. Because meat was so rare our bodies have been taught through thousands of years of leans times to make the most of meat when we get it. If you think about it. modern man has been around for what a million years or so? ANd its really only been for the past 90 or so that we have been to eat our fill at every meal (in the western world. And thats not counting the rich kings,queens, lords etc.). Which is something the human body is just not evolved to do. So really moderate amounts of meat = good for human heatlh. too much = bad, boo hiss. All this crap about humans not suppose to be eating meat is just pure b.s drummed up by orgs like peta.

I think somebody may have pointed this out, but if you don't keep your animal in conditions so that it'll become dirty, it's a non issue - if a child rolls around in mud, said child gets washed.
Leaving an animal unclean is an invitation to all manner of infestations and zootosis, which can drastically reduce not only the quality, but also the length of life of the animal.
Though you haven't said you *don't* clean yours, and claim they're taken care of (though you and I differ in our perception there), you've only really said that you think it's dirty, so assuming that's true your actions can't be put down to complete lack of responsibility, though I might question your logic.



Sigh...My dogs are clean. They are well fed. They are wormed reagular times of the year. In general they are very well taken care of. (They have to be as they work for a living.). But still dogs inside a house is just dirty. IN short i see my dogs as just pets something i own. They are not my companions nor my friends. They're just a animal. And yes. I like my dogs, except for when they dig up my yard looking for sand crickets or pull the clothes off my line (strange how they pull off the clothes that cost the most and leave the older stuff alone)I do think they have feelings. And that they deserved to be treated with kindness and affection. Their the best animal in the world really. It's almost like they can read our minds. Like for example when i come home and i see my best shirt laying on the ground. the one who assumably did it gives me a guilty look, and quickly dissapears. But still they're just an animal.