victimization flicks- love em or hate em

[psycho d]

i actually hate watching these flicks, atrocities such as Funny Games, Eden Lake, and Frontiers. i usually turn them off for a spell, thinking that i can just walk away, but then i always come back and stay for the bitter end. i love the disturbed emotions that they leave me with afterwards. Goofed up i guess. Ashe.
d

[urgeok2]

like anything else - if they are well done - i like them.

i thought the origional last house on the left was crap - i disliked it

but i liked 'ils' (them)


the only thing that disturbs me is the goal of the filmmaker.

it is easy to evoke strong emotions .. disney is a master at it .. i appreciate the films that find more integral means of getting you there (character developement, pacing, etc)

not just gut reactions to obviously unpleasant atrocities.

[neverending]

Yep- depends on the film.

I thought frontier(s) was brilliant.

[Despare]

Yep- depends on the film.

Exactly, I like some and not others for many different reasons.

[alkytrio666]

That depends on how well the victims are written, and what their torture is intended to make me feel.

Examples:

Good: Straw Dogs- Here is a film which pours an incredible amount of suffering on its central characters, and because its central characters are so innocent and likeable, we feel their pain deeply. But the point of the film isn't to be a torture movie, as we soon find out; unlike other films which revolve around a rape, there is a striking ambiguity around the event, and it makes its characters subjects to be studied and considered; does Amy enjoy the rape- and if so, is it rape?; is the violence that David unleashes after the event retribution for the people who have hurt his wife, or is this a pent-up barbarism which he was never able to vent before?; or, if the backlash is truly about the event, is David's fury for the victimization of his wife or revenge for his own humiliation?; who's right and who's wrong when one party strikes first with sexual aggression and the other fights back with murder? These are questions that never get answered, but they are presented for us to consider, and this is the purpose of the film.

Bad: Hostel- This is victimization for the sole purpose of victimization, and any "message" Roth tries to submit at the last second is only a social excuse for his graphic fantasies. Generally I stop caring about a film when it stops caring about its characters, and with Hostel there was never even time to make this transition. The central characters in the film are ugly people, the stereotypes of college-aged men who have no interest outside of getting fucked up and fucking (which works out nicely for Roth, who in turn gets to show lots of boobies). What ensues is a radical exploitation of torture violence, turning these lifeless and one-dimensional kids into victims; but which side are we supposed to be on? Obviously the reason the film was made was to show gratuitous graphic violence, so Roth doesn't seem too concerned with the salvation of his characters- and since a director's vision is an audience's guiding light, we hardly care either. I don't enjoy watching this kind of victimization without any kind of purpose outside of making its viewers squirm. I'm not into sadism as entertainment.

[scouse mac]

I cant stand these films when they spend no time to develop the characters. Some think all they have to do is put random people in horrible situations is all it takes to 'create' a horror film.

Character development is key to these films working

[Papillon Noir]

You hit the nail on the head, Scouse. I'm the same way. My level of interest really stems on the level of character development. There also needs to be some sort of a plot, it can have a bunch of holes, but I won't notice it if there is character development.

[urgeok2]

You hit the nail on the head, Scouse. I'm the same way. My level of interest really stems on the level of character development. .

god, i wish i'd said it


:p

[UngodlyWarlock]

Ha, people take Hostel too seriously. Eli Roth was trying to make a Gore and Tits flick, nothing more.

I liked it for the appreciation to classic exploitation flicks Roth seems to have and the desire to make a movie to have "lots of gore and tits", just because. The fact that it did so well actually worked against it, because now you get the folks that use it as the pillar of modern day "torture porn". The ending of that movie was hilarious and the orange eye-goo was nothing "disturbing" even in the slightest bit. It was mainstream Troma, nothing more.

I think Roth's biggest mistake was making the sequel. That one took itself way too seriously, had no laughs, had no tits, and focused too much on this "victimization"...just boring as hell. Cabin Fever was better anyway...he needs to do more "Pancaaaakes!" movies, in my opinion.

Other than that, though, I agree....I hated Wolf Creek and Hostel 2 as examples, because I generally don't like seeing a likable cast get brutally killed. I prefer the more fun "80's formula" of setting up flawed characters to get killed. It's just more enjoyable to me.

I did like Martyrs and Inside quite a bit, though.

[_____V_____]

Love em.

[Angra]

Other than that, though, I agree....I hated Wolf Creek and Hostel 2 as examples, because I generally don't like seeing a likable cast get brutally killed. I prefer the more fun "80's formula" of setting up flawed characters to get killed. It's just more enjoyable to me.

Agreed.

I did like Martyrs and Inside quite a bit, though.


And agreed.


I guess i'm not very hardcore when it comes to these kind of flicks. :o

[neverending]

I liked Wolf Creek. Very well done, IMO.

[alkytrio666]

Ha, people take Hostel too seriously. Eli Roth was trying to make a Gore and Tits flick, nothing more.

That's exactly what I said my problem was. Point is, if we're talking about victimization, I don't particularly care for the victims in a gore and tits movie, so why would I want to watch one? I'd rather just watch a porno, or a gory movie with better characters. Or, hell, a Troma movie- at least they know what kind of level they're working on.

[hellfire1]

I guess i'm not very hardcore when it comes to these kind of flicks. :o



Awww....

You're just a cuddly little thing, aren't you?


:p

[Angra]

Awww....

You're just a cuddly little thing, aren't you?


:p



Hug me, i'm scared.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p17/Kasper_76/000222.jpg

[UngodlyWarlock]

I liked Wolf Creek. Very well done, IMO.

Oh it was unquestionably well done, don't mistake me.
I just didn't enjoy it. It's not the kind of movie I choose to watch.

I'd rather watch a fun horror movie like Night of the Demons or something any freaking day of the week than a movie like Wolf Creek. I just felt pissed, depressed, annoyed, wasted my time etc. But I don't think the movie "sucks". Big difference.

I know it's probably a bit of a contradiction that I liked Martyrs so much....but it's all in the way it's presented, I suppose.

[Angra]

I know it's probably a bit of a contradiction that I liked Martyrs so much....but it's all in the way it's presented, I suppose.


I can tell you why that is.

It's because Martyrs is not as realistic.

[neverending]

To be honest I never categorized these films as a "type" of movie. I didn't have any of these negative reactions some seems to have with certain films. In Wolf Creek we're presented with some people who are put through terrible ordeals- and one makes it out.

It seems to be the same situation as hundreds of other films to me. Some of them are well done, and some are not. I don't really need to be taught a moral lesson in a film to enjoy it. I don't mind there being moral lessons, but I don't need them. In fact, bleak, brutal movies seem pretty damn accurate in terms of the real world to me. And no- I'm not watching movies to escape from reality. Perhaps I'm different from many in that regard. There's a lot of sick, twisted crap in the world and movies that reflect this or reflect on this interest me.

I'm not arguing for gore or violence for the sake of gore or violence itself. Fronteir(s) had an intriquing story, set admidst a political and cultural framework that was unique. Fascinating movie on so many levels. To slap a label on it and dismiss it is shortsided IMO.

Wolf Creek, slightly suggested by real events in rural Australia, had a moral ambiguity that strikes me as very realistic and fascinating.

These "type" of films, if indeed they are a "type" bother me far less than the plethora of crappy awful "bad" and "campy" horror movies so many seem to have such an affection for- for exactly the same reason being debated here- they don't even have the guts or conviction to take themselves seriously. With so many filmmakers that seem to lack any faith that they have enough talent or artistry to make an original movie, they take the lazy way out and make something "just meant to be fun." That offends me more than a filmmaker who tries something different and fails.

[roshiq]

TCM (Original, remake & the beginning), Straw Dogs, Inside, Eden Lake, Ils, Frontier(s)...love em!

Last house on the left (Original), Wolf Creek, Funny Games US, Martyrs, Rovdyr...like em.

Hostel and The Strangers....hate em!

[Elvis_Christ]

Wolf Creek was awful. I thought it was a real let down. The characters were totally unlikeable and it was just a weak TCM knockoff. Storm Warning was a better effort for the Aussies but that was still pretty average.

I prefer the older stuff like House By The Edge Of The Park to be honest.

[Bub the Zombie]

Admit it, you get a kick out of watching others getting caught in hopeless and fatal situations. "Torture porn" owes it's popularity to such movies. Thankfully reality is only a relative term when such movies are referred to it.

[jenna26]

You hit the nail on the head, Scouse. I'm the same way. My level of interest really stems on the level of character development. There also needs to be some sort of a plot, it can have a bunch of holes, but I won't notice it if there is character development.



Usually comes down to character for me as well. If the characters are sympathetic and/or interest me (victims or killers) then I usually like the film and can overlook some pretty huge flaws with the film itself.

Often, like with Eden Lake, the characters will do something that I find personally ridiculous. When its a film like that (where there is no sense of "fun" or a sense of humor, or camp) then it can quickly start to lose my interest. Same thing happened with The Strangers. I can't even find it disturbing anymore because I am just so frustrated with the characters.

But I loved The Devil's Rejects, Inside, Them, and Martyrs. I even like the original Last House on the Left just because I think it was pretty effective for what they had to work with, and I still find much of it disturbing (but I find the bumbling cops out of place and HATE they were added in).

So, it depends on the film, and the characters. Like Angra though, I'm usually pretty.....sensitive..... when it comes to these kinds of films. :p There are few I just refuse to watch because I know it will go too far for me, personally.


Ha, people take Hostel too seriously. Eli Roth was trying to make a Gore and Tits flick, nothing more.

I liked it for the appreciation to classic exploitation flicks Roth seems to have and the desire to make a movie to have "lots of gore and tits", just because. The fact that it did so well actually worked against it, because now you get the folks that use it as the pillar of modern day "torture porn". The ending of that movie was hilarious and the orange eye-goo was nothing "disturbing" even in the slightest bit. It was mainstream Troma, nothing more.

I think Roth's biggest mistake was making the sequel. That one took itself way too seriously, had no laughs, had no tits, and focused too much on this "victimization"...just boring as hell. Cabin Fever was better anyway...he needs to do more "Pancaaaakes!" movies, in my opinion.
.

What's sad is that I think Roth WAS trying to make a smarter film than he made. He's just not that good of a filmmaker and didn't know how to do it effectively. I actually really liked Cabin Fever a lot more, because its goofy and fun, and he wasn't really trying to make it out to be more than it is.