Martyrs

[valenS]

This was one of the most shocking movies I've ever seen and I've seen quite every horror movie. It was really disturbing and quite intelligent. Every self-respecting hardcore horror fan must see this. It left me with a very dark feeling. Those who have seen it, what did you think?

[Burning in Hell]

Very bleak movie indeed! I saw a few horror movie fans leave the theater because they just could not bear the abuse anymore. You could hear people in the room gasping at some scenes as well. Really liked it for my part, but true, its a deeply disturbing movie even for people used to nasty movies.

There is just no fun in these torture scenes as opposed to most other flicks that take the same angle, its just too grim and psychologically harsh. I rarely discuss the psychology or the story of a movie of this kind after seing it (who cares anyways), but this time we all did. A very cold, intelligent, thought-provoking piece. I highly recommend it as well, but this clearly is not a movie for everyone, even hardcore horror fans!

MINOR SPOILERS :

Pretty shocking as well, once you learn the motive behind the actions of this "circle". Doing all this just out of some quest for "illumination"? Wow.

[Roderick Usher]

. I rarely discuss the psychology or the story of a movie of this kind after seing it (who cares anyways)

I care. What I enjoy most from a horror/scifi/fantasy film is the ability to present huge themes within an audience-friendly framework.

I liked Martyrs, but I didn't find it to be ground-breaking or brilliant.

It's brutality loses its impact after a while and simply becomes numbing, which may be someone's intention, but hardly the way I want to feel after viewing a film.

I found the "reason" behind everything to be silly & foolish & half-baked. Yes, the filmmakers tried to elevate the torture genre (aiming high is a wonderful thing) but their reach exceed their grasp.

[scouse mac]

I care. What I enjoy most from a horror/scifi/fantasy film is the ability to present huge themes within an audience-friendly framework.

Brutality loses impact after a while and simply becomes numbing, which may be someone's intention, but hardly the way I want to feel after viewing a film.




Totally agree with this. Although I haven't seen this film, any film which shows torture scenes, especially prolonged ones, always seems lazy to me. There is more to horror than seeing someones fear and pain, and while it serves a purpose, there should always be a reason behind torture scenes. Anything else is just sadism, which can be horrific, but not horror.

[Anthropophagus]

Need to see this soon.

What is the considered best version and producer of this and where can i get it from.I have seen it on various sites and with differing covers but unsure which to go for.

[Papillon Noir]

I am now rather intrigued with this movie and though I keep hearing conflicting thoughts on it (which isn't too surprising since horror can be rather picky), I definitely want to see it. France has really become the leader in horror these days.

I checked Amazon and it comes out on unrated dvd on April 28th here in the States.

[hammerfan]

Added it to the queue at Netflix.

[Ferox13]

I really liked - it was kinda hard to watch in parts (mostly the self cutting stuff) - though the ending was kinda contrived I still though it was interesting.

[Burning in Hell]

The "who cares" was mostly aimed at torture flicks, where there usually isn't much to seek your teeth into psychologically speaking, just to be a bit more precise.

Well, I for one did not think they missed their aim with this "elevation thing", as well as the numbing of the scenes. But hey, to each his own as they say :)

[Staal]

I had my chance to watch this flick last night, and I really enjoyed it.

The first 45 minutes had me blown away - This was my kind of movie. The next part was great as well, I just wish they had elaborated some more on the plot, since they chose to go that way.

As to the "gore" part, I really do not see how you can all talk about people leaving the theatre. I didn't really find this movie to be that harsh to watch. I'm not sure what you all mean, but if you a refering to the whole torture part at the end of the movie, I actuallly thought Girl Next Door was more disturbing.

Honestly, I'm not really sure I caught the whole point, as this copy of the movie was not subtitled.

They wanted to "produce" a martyr, which is a person that sees into the world of the dead, in order to know what it is like?

[DeluzioNFX]

This movie was great!


My fav of the month

[Ferox13]

I found the "reason" behind everything to be silly & foolish & half-baked. Yes, the filmmakers tried to elevate the torture genre (aiming high is a wonderful thing) but their reach exceed their grasp.

In a way isn't that the very nature of Exploitation films - isn't faces of Death an indepth look at the mystery of life and Hostel is a critic of western society where any thing can be bought..

I think alot of exploitation films try to justify themselves in that way and try to condemn what infact is the films major selling point. I think Martyrs did this slightly better and is more 'respectable' than Ilsa SheWolf or Last house but I think it uses the same methods in a lot of ways...

[n3kr0]

When i read the reviews i was like - wow finaly, what i've been waiting for.
the only thing that i don't agree on is about the last 30 minutes, that i read was the most disturbing, it was, but i think they took a bit to long, i know that the porpuse was for us to see what was the torture all about, and with that horrifying conclusion. When i say to long, i mean, they could have perhaps took it a bit more violently like the first 45 minutes, or not, lol.

Anyways, i was really hoping for this movie to blow me way, and it did, unfortunately a remake it's on it's way... i have already lost my interest on battleling that same old discussion...

i'm from europe, and i fear the french, they are insane...:eek:

:D give us more:)

[chupa chupp]

This movie was absolutely horrendous. A bigger piece of shit than the presents I leave in the toilet after all you can eat buffet at Pizza Hut. I guess an out of left field "explanation" for the cult's reasoning behind their tortures dupes people into believing the film is deeper and more important than it actually is.

[Awesome McBadass]

I watched this last night and I thought it was amazing.
Probably the best newer horror movie I've seen.
I loved it.

[Anthropophagus]

I have seen various copies of Martyrs online.Play.com for one have one such copy yet there are other versions apparently.The one that i like has `uncut`slapped on the cover but is this truly the case as it would seen to put uncut on a film is just a publicity ploy to get you to buy that copy.

http://www.movietyme.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=44721

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/9151484/Martyrs/Product.html

Which should i go for guys?

[roshiq]

I have got a locally produced (pirated) dvd copy of the film but the problem is it has no English subtitles (like the way Angra saw it few days back)!:o

Will it be 'okay' to see this film without understanding the dialogs?:rolleyes:

[siorai]

I watched Martyrs this weekend. The first half or so was great. Very disturbing and powerful. Unsettling even. Then... Well... The movie fell apart for me. The mystical, psuedo-religious crap really killed the movie for me. It's like they had two different writers. One serious, the other campy. I realize they went with the plotline they did in order to try to elevate the movie from simple torture-porn, but it was done in such a schlocky, gimmicky way. To me at least, it was a valiant effort that started very strong, but just fell short at the end.

[siorai]

I have got a locally produced (pirated) dvd copy of the film but the problem is it has no English subtitles (like the way Angra saw it few days back)!:o

Will it be 'okay' to see this film without understanding the dialogs?:rolleyes:

Not really. The first half or so will be fine because it's pretty straightforward. You will probably be able to figure out why what's happening is happening. The last third or so of movie will make no sense whatsoever. Especially the ending. If you're just wanting to see torture and gore it'll be fine, but if you want to know why said torture and gore is occurring, you will probably be lost.

[Staal]

I watched this flick without subtitles, and understood most of it. As with Inside and Haute Tension, there isn't too much dialogue.

However, if you do not understand French at all, then the second half of the movie might not make too much sense.

[Staal]

I have got a locally produced (pirated) dvd copy of the film but the problem is it has no English subtitles (like the way Angra saw it few days back)!:o

Will it be 'okay' to see this film without understanding the dialogs?:rolleyes:

Subscene probably has some. Shame on you though.

[roshiq]

Subscene probably has some. Shame on you though.

Why? :D :D I haven't seen it yet, As there are some mixed reviews so I can now wait for its dvd release with Eng sub.

[Staal]

Well.. As long as you buy a proper release, I don't mind you using a pirated one to begin with. :D

[roseyred]

NOT WORTH WATCHING! I watched it with my boyfriend. I must say watching anna get the shit beaten out of her but some piece of shit was enough to make me want to puke. Its very hard for me to watch torture films because i think there worthless movies.























*****Spoiler******

The end when she hears lucies voice saying not scared now and stuff i got goosebumps when she looked up her eyes swollen shut and what not. Just broke my heart. What got me the most was when they hooked her up the that metal thing and stripped her naked and ripped her skin off. I have to say this movie sucked!! Another pointless stupid movie about someone being tortured. Two thumbs down.

:edit:

****spoiler****

One thing i forgot to add though for those of you who seen what did you think of the ending? I though it was macabre but thats just me..

[UngodlyWarlock]

Amazing movie. I'm still thinking about it 3 days after watching it.
Absolutely brutal, horrifying, deplorable, painful, unrelenting....

SPOILERS (highlight)!!!!!
I thought at first the movie was going to be pretty standard with the overblown "Castle Freak" part. At that point, I was pretty sure the movie was just all hype and nothing else. Don't get me wrong, that part was creepy and when you imagine that that girl had been there for 15+ years is almost unbelievable, but compared to all the horror movies I have seen in my life, it still didn't affect me that much.

How could I have known that this was only the set-up to lure you into the world, then *ahem* beat you into submission in the last 30 minutes of the movie. The whole scene with the "black surgeon" was one of the most shocking scenes I have ever seen. Sure, it's not like we haven't seen a skinless person before in movies like Hellraiser 2, but that is fantastical! This....this was meant to be real. Not a demon or a zombie...a real person just barely hanging onto life. Absolutely insane.

The best part? The movie didn't just come off as (I hate the term, but I'll use it anyway) "torture porn". It had so much going on, so many subtleties....

I don't know if I'll be able to watch it again anytime soon...it's that good.

The movie is not for everyone, but to say it "sucked" blows my mind. The fact that it affected some of you so much should give a clear example that it *didn't* suck. My example is always Requiem for a Dream....there is so much BAD STUFF going on in that movie, I felt dirty after watching it. I had to call my mom! But it is unquestionably superb film-making. I believe this movie is also superb. To write it off as "more torture porn" is truly sad, but that is my opinion only.

-D

[missmacabre]

I wanna watch it but I can't bring myself to watch it. Maybe if enough people think it's a good idea for me to watch it, I will tape it on webcam so you can all at least get a laugh.

[roseyred]

watch it haha

[missmacabre]

watch it haha

I want to so bad, but for a long time now I can;t stand feeling uncomfortable. Movies that U watched when I was little like The Shining and TCM, I just sit there covering my eyes and can barely take it, until I end up turning it off cause it's too much. I love horror movies, and I'm so sad that I can barely watch them anymore.

Derek suggested I watch light horror movies and work my way up to scarier, more uncomfortable stuff so he's got me watching Supernatural and stuff. Doesn't cut it really. I literally threw up at the theatre for the last 2 Saw movies. I think I'll use Martyrs as a way to get over it.

[roseyred]

Awe i didnt know it was like that for you. Then dont watch it. I felt so uncomfortable and dirty and watching this movie. I was like wtf why did i just watch this filth? I can typically handle any movie i dont like torture ones but i dont puke or anything during them. I would definatly not watch this movie until your mentally and physically prepared...its pretty icky.

[missmacabre]

Awe i didnt know it was like that for you. Then dont watch it. I felt so uncomfortable and dirty and watching this movie. I was like wtf why did i just watch this filth? I can typically handle any movie i dont like torture ones but i dont puke or anything during them. I would definatly not watch this movie until your mentally and physically prepared...its pretty icky.

and so I have heard, but I'm trying to figure out what happened to change me. Like I went from watching Suspiria and Cannibal Halocaust one day to not being able to handle my old favourites the nest. I'm dead set on watching it though, hopefully the feeling is no worse than the "turn off" feeling I got when watching Haute Tension.

[UngodlyWarlock]

Ah, I didn't realize you were that squeamish when I replied to your twitter, MM. If you had issues with Saw movies...then DEFINITELY DO NOT WATCH, haha.

-D

[missmacabre]

Ah, I didn't realize you were that squeamish when I replied to your twitter, MM. If you had issues with Saw movies...then DEFINITELY DO NOT WATCH, haha.

-D

Nonono not squeamish. I just get very upset very easily. I saw your tweet and Roshiq replies on facebook. I decided to watch Inside, which I am doing now.

edit: don't even think I can take this anymore

[pinehearst]

I dont like this movie

real horror movie

Watch semum

Find torrentz

[missmacabre]

Nonono not squeamish. I just get very upset very easily. I saw your tweet and Roshiq replies on facebook. I decided to watch Inside, which I am doing now.

edit: don't even think I can take this anymore

Okay so if anyone wants to see the funniest thing ever I will post a video of me watching the tracheotomy scene from Inside. I actually found that recording my reactions to the movie therapeutic. I watched the movie, felt uncomfortable, watched my reactions and laughed my ass off at how silly I am. :D

[roseyred]

do it!!!!!! i wanna see

[missmacabre]

I will. There were 2 parts that made me look rediculous. I'm gonna edit the video and post it (reluctantly, since it was 4:30 when I started recording and I'm in bed in pyjamas and no makeup).

[roseyred]

ohh send me the real copy so i may laugh for a while?? lol

[missmacabre]

no was hunny. It's like a half hour long so I cant really host it without a lot of trouble, I'm putting in the fun parts. Everything else it me biting my nails or just sitting there.

[roseyred]

haha fine! lol you know i never thought of how funny it would be to tape yourself watching a gross movie..i might have to try it sometime lol

[Abominus]

I just finished watching it. It's an intense movie. I would say it's definitely worth a watch but I would be careful who I recommended it to. It's neat to see the polarizing effect it's having on genre fans.

[Papillon Noir]

Amazing movie. I'm still thinking about it 3 days after watching it.
Absolutely brutal, horrifying, deplorable, painful, unrelenting....

SPOILERS (highlight)!!!!!
I thought at first the movie was going to be pretty standard with the overblown "Castle Freak" part. At that point, I was pretty sure the movie was just all hype and nothing else. Don't get me wrong, that part was creepy and when you imagine that that girl had been there for 15+ years is almost unbelievable, but compared to all the horror movies I have seen in my life, it still didn't affect me that much.

How could I have known that this was only the set-up to lure you into the world, then *ahem* beat you into submission in the last 30 minutes of the movie. The whole scene with the "black surgeon" was one of the most shocking scenes I have ever seen. Sure, it's not like we haven't seen a skinless person before in movies like Hellraiser 2, but that is fantastical! This....this was meant to be real. Not a demon or a zombie...a real person just barely hanging onto life. Absolutely insane.

The best part? The movie didn't just come off as (I hate the term, but I'll use it anyway) "torture porn". It had so much going on, so many subtleties....

I don't know if I'll be able to watch it again anytime soon...it's that good.

The movie is not for everyone, but to say it "sucked" blows my mind. The fact that it affected some of you so much should give a clear example that it *didn't* suck. My example is always Requiem for a Dream....there is so much BAD STUFF going on in that movie, I felt dirty after watching it. I had to call my mom! But it is unquestionably superb film-making. I believe this movie is also superb. To write it off as "more torture porn" is truly sad, but that is my opinion only.

-D


Amen, Brother.

I watched this last week and I still think about. It really took all your assumptions about horror movies today and just stripped them away. You thought you knew what was going to happen and it just surprises you and goes to level you didn't know was there. And it was relentless, but not in a gory way, it was psychological. It's like you felt your own martyrization.

I honestly felt drained after this movie. Not since I saw Audition for the first time back in the 90's, before anyone really knew much about J-Horror did I feel so emotionally jarred, and that to me is great filmmaking. If I movie can invoke such a strong emotional response, then it has done it's job.

Movies like Martyrs change you, because it causes you to think deeper into what is going on and the message that film is telling you. It's not just entertainment, but a psychological and philosophical experience. This is a film, but you gain the knowledge and truth of the events without the consequences, which is truly remarkable.

[missmacabre]

OKayyyy I finally watched it.. annd I loved it. Everything about it. The first half was better for actual scares. Half way through the movie could have been the end of the movie and I would have been happy, but then it just kept getting better. I can describe what I liked about Martyrs for an hour, but I have no words for how I feel right now.

I cried (on camera) nearer to the end. It wasn't as intense as I thought it would be, but it was still really something, and I really wanted to stop watching 3 or 4 times, but I didn't. I thought getting up to get a much needed drink, or pausing to bawl my eyes out would ruin the huge buildup for the end and i am so glad I just stuck through it.

[mrbelle]

This movie was great i have watched it twice so far and it is goi9ng into my dvd collection for sure

[milktoaste]

I can easily see how people can express different opinions about Martyrs. The diference from one act to the next- it almost seemed like a colaboration between 2 directors. I really liked the begining and middle, but the ending felt long and dull. Not to say the ending was dull, just after answering and raising all the questions from the first half of the movie, any chance of maintaining an emotion impact had been spent (for me).

It was a really good movie, a strange, twisting and twisted tale that was also very fresh and original. If you have problems watching a woman get tortured, I would stay far away from this one.

[siorai]

Movies like Martyrs change you, because it causes you to think deeper into what is going on and the message that film is telling you. It's not just entertainment, but a psychological and philosophical experience. This is a film, but you gain the knowledge and truth of the events without the consequences, which is truly remarkable.

I guess the main problem I have with the supposed "message" is this:

The secret society was trying to find out about the afterlife. They felt that at the final point of self-sacrifice, a martyr is able to see God, the afterlife, or whatever you want to call it. The problem is that the girls they torture and kill are not martyrs. They are purely victims. They are not dying for a cause that fills their heart, mind, and soul. They are dying because they has the unfortunate luck to be kidnapped by a cabal of lunatics.

Compare the monk who immolated himself to Anna being beaten repeatedly then having her skin peeled off. The monk died for a cause. Thích Quảng Đức was protesting the persecution of Buddhists by South Vietnam's Ngô Đình Diệm administration. He died with his heart and mind focused on bringing awareness to an injustice. What cause did Anna die for? What filled her heart leading up to her death? Terror, pain, and confusion. An utterly pointless death in all sense of the word.

Martyr's "message" would have made much more sense if the secret society members were the ones offering themselves up for the beating, torture, and ultimate death. But that wouldn't make as compelling of a movie now would it? Who would care about a bunch of pseudo-religious nutjobs torturing each other to death? There would be no reason to empathize with the victims because they wouldn't be victims. So the only route to go would be to kidnap innocents and torture/kill them so that the audience would actually care about their fate.

Martyrs was a valiant effort, but was weakened in my opinion by a hackjob of a plot device to explain and hour and a half of violence.

[fuglystick]

I wasn't impressed. It was smarter and better directed than, say, Hostel, but it still boiled down to "torture porn" in the end. It wasn't deep or smart enough to cause any great reflection or pose serious questions.

[Death Magnetic]

queued at Netflix

[Anthropophagus]

Loved it loved it loved it.:)

[VampiricClown]

I have this one, but have yet to watch it. Maybe I will in the next couple of days, to see what all the fuss is about.

[Ferox13]

I wasn't impressed. It was smarter and better directed than, say, Hostel, but it still boiled down to "torture porn" in the end. It wasn't deep or smart enough to cause any great reflection or pose serious questions.

Whats 'torture porn'?

[VampiricClown]

Whats 'torture porn'?

Movies such as Hostel/Saw, where the main focus of the film is around the torture of the on screen characters. It's a new name for the same old thing.

[Elvis_Christ]

Started watching this earlier in the week but it was late and I was struggling to keep my eyes open.

Whats 'torture porn'?

:D

[Ferox13]

Movies such as Hostel/Saw, where the main focus of the film is around the torture of the on screen characters. It's a new name for the same old thing.

Exactly - just another media label to pigeon hole the horror genre - fucking retarded if you ask me..

No one ever called Ilsa 'torture porn' - it was good ol' Exploitation back then.

[Zero]

and everything old is new again

[Ash3292]

I thought it was really good , there were a couple of pretty extreme tone changes in it though

[VampiricClown]

First half was good, second half was long and drawn out for no reason.

Review is in the "last seen movie" thread.

[Anthropophagus]

I actually prefer the second half.

[Ferox13]

First half was good, second half was long and drawn out for no reason.

I think the unrelenting and repedative abuse was to help show how she was withdrawing into herself and becoming numb to the pain and violence and how she had begun to accept death. The road to what they were calling her 'martyrdom'.

[Elvis_Christ]

Glad I went into this one blind. I dug how the first half had an almost supernatural tone to it but it just decended into the Hostel kinda deal once again...

Still this and Frontier(s) kill the bubble gum bullshit coming out of the states.

[Ferox13]

There seems to be a lot of hate for Frontier(s) but i kinda liked it.

[Elvis_Christ]

I enjoyed it more than Martyrs to be honest. The nazi characters were a hoot :D

But yeh it was Hostel buzz once again with some heavy handed left wing idealogy hammered in, that was a bit abvious and annoying.

There was another film it was similar too with a bunch of ravers ending up at a psycho family's farm... whatever the fuck it was called escapes me but Frontier(s) killed it anyways.

[ChronoGrl]

Finally brought myself to watch this film and Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

Can't say I "enjoyed" it, or even "liked" it... In fact, I found myself crying at the very end of it. The fact is, I just don't have the stomach for exploitative, violent, and torture movies, even if there is an "end" to the bloody means. It makes me feel sad, violated, helpless and hopeless.

But as the Madame says in the film, It's so easy to create a victim...

In that regard, the movie is successful. Hell, not just in that regard - It's successful in a myriad of ways:

Brilliant first half of the movie that keeps the tension high that you can barely pause to catch your breath - Fantastic suspense, tension, and emotion.

As MM says, the movie could have ended there for me too. In fact, there were quite a few places mid-film where I thought to myself, "Wow. The movie must be almost over. What a fantastic fucking film. I can't wait to go on Facebook and HDC and gush about this... But it's so short!! Oh, wait - It's not ending... Where can they possibly go from here??

So to its credit, it does answer the proverbial question, Where can they go from here? by completely defying expectations (I thought for the first 45 minutes that all the talk about "torture porn" - heh hehe Ferox - was going to turn out to be a bunch of malarky... BOY WAS I WRONG) and COMPLETELY catching me off-guard (despite this movie being out for quite some time!! I was STILL taken off-guard!! Just like... A VICTIM).

And the rest of the movie was executed with cruel, cold, calculating precision, absolutely horrifying and stabbing at me with every scene.

To say that it took me to a depth of misery that I have never experienced before with a film is an understatement. At the end, I wept at the blackness - At the hopelessness - At the fact that I had just exposed myself AND the boyfriend to a film that I KNEW would make us uncomfortable. But, oh, "uncomfortable" is a bit of an understatement...

But here's the thing about Martyrs: It's smart. Like, wicked smaht. It's not just abuse for the sake of depravity - It actually had a message driven into the sadism - And the "message," while some have said that it was preachy and over-the-top, I found really, really interesting. That made the movie a bit more palatable than your average exploitation flick.

But ultimately, I think that the movie's mission, in part, is to make victims of its viewers - To torture them as they do poor, beautiful Anna.

So.

Does Martyrs belong in TotalFilm's 25 Most Disturbing Films Ever (http://www.totalfilm.com/features/the-25-most-disturbing-movies-ever/martyrs-2008-1#content)? Yes.

Does Martyrs live up to the cult hype and praise? Absolutely.

Is it fair for someone to say Martyrs sucked? God, no.

Will I ever watch Martyrs again? Fuck no.



I'm going to go eat some chocolate, curl up with my Bear and hug myself until this feeling of unhappiness goes away...

[siorai]

But here's the thing about Martyrs: It's smart. Like, wicked smaht. It's not just abuse for the sake of depravity - It actually had a message driven into the sadism - And the "message," while some have said that it was preachy and over-the-top, I found really, really interesting. That made the movie a bit more palatable than your average exploitation flick.

Is it fair for someone to say Martyrs sucked? God, no.

Out of curiosity, just what did you think the "wicked smaht" message was in Martyrs? I ask because I found that the plotline felt weak and was basically a poorly thought out excuse for a quintessential torture porn flick and nothing more. For that reason I do say that Martyrs sucked. It had the potential to not suck. It could have been a supremely disturbing movie (that's not to say it's not disturbing of course), but the vehicle for the violence just does not work at all if you know what a martyr actually is. Maybe there's another way to look at this movie that I'm just not seeing.

[fuglystick]

Out of curiosity, just what did you think the "wicked smaht" message was in Martyrs? I ask because I found that the plotline felt weak and was basically a poorly thought out excuse for a quintessential torture porn flick and nothing more. For that reason I do say that Martyrs sucked. It had the potential to not suck. It could have been a supremely disturbing movie (that's not to say it's not disturbing of course), but the vehicle for the violence just does not work at all if you know what a martyr actually is. Maybe there's another way to look at this movie that I'm just not seeing.

+1

Different strokes and all, but it really didn't work for me.

[FreddyMyers]

The first half was fucking insane. The atmosphere and intensity had me at the edge of my seat, and scared to be there! If it ended there it wouldve been great. Instead it took an absolute dive bomb into dread and helplessness. A bit too much torture porn IMO. If they spent more time on WHY they were doing that and less time beating the shit out of the poor girl i think it might have been more widley accepted by audiences. That being said ive never felt more like a victim at the end of a movie so in that sense i really enjoyed it, but I still think the reasoning behind the torture couldve been more in depth.

[ChronoGrl]

Out of curiosity, just what did you think the "wicked smaht" message was in Martyrs? I ask because I found that the plotline felt weak and was basically a poorly thought out excuse for a quintessential torture porn flick and nothing more. For that reason I do say that Martyrs sucked. It had the potential to not suck. It could have been a supremely disturbing movie (that's not to say it's not disturbing of course), but the vehicle for the violence just does not work at all if you know what a martyr actually is. Maybe there's another way to look at this movie that I'm just not seeing.

Well questions for you: What is your definition of "martyr," how does it differ from that of the film, and why does it destroy the plotline for you?

...

I really liked (well I'm not sure if "liked" is the right word) the concept of creating Martyrs. I found it incredibly eerie and disturbing.

I think that the question you bring up is really Does the end justify the means? I'm honestly not sure, but mostly because I honestly detest torture flicks - Just can't watch 'em. But, regardless, I thought that the premise was interesting (I use the term "interesting" carefully here because I can't necessarily say, "WOW THE PLOT WAS AWESOME WHAT A REVEAL" - I just thought that it was a different way to show the horrors of the religious zealot). There's more going on here than just a torture movie - You have this concept of literally manufacturing martyrs - Something that we see today with suicide bombers and the like... And the ultimate message? There is no Redemption for those who create martyrdom.


That, to me, made the movie "smarter" (or smahter if you're from Boston) than the average torture flick.



+1

Different strokes and all, but it really didn't work for me.

Which "it" are you referring to? The plot (e.g. Creating Martyrs), the movie in general, or both?

It's interesting to see how people are responding to the "reveal" - I found it interesting, but it seems here that people are finding it contrived.

[fuglystick]

Which "it" are you referring to? The plot (e.g. Creating Martyrs), the movie in general, or both?

It's interesting to see how people are responding to the "reveal" - I found it interesting, but it seems here that people are finding it contrived.

"Creating martyrs" would have worked, if the film had earned it. In my opinion, the premise and execution was flimsy. That's just my opinion; if it worked for others that's fine.

[ChronoGrl]

"Creating martyrs" would have worked, if the film had earned it. In my opinion, the premise and execution was flimsy. That's just my opinion; if it worked for others that's fine.

I can understand what you're saying... When we were introduced to the Madam who had her exposition-laden speech about 'Martyrs,' I honestly thought that that scene and the movie going forward were going to turn out to be some kind of hallucination constructed by Anna. I thought that it was really silly and unbelievable at first...

It's definitely the concept that did it for me (well, that "interested" me at least)... I looked beyond the execution because the torture aspect made me so damn uncomfortable (which is of course the point).

[siorai]

Well questions for you: What is your definition of "martyr," how does it differ from that of the film, and why does it destroy the plotline for you?

A martyr is someone who dies for a cause they believe in, typically a religious cause, but not necessarily so. Which is the same definition the movie uses in regards to the martyrs referenced throughout history, but has absolutely no bearing on the girls.

The girls in the movie were not martyrs. They were victims. They did not believe in what they were being killed for. They did not want to see the edge of other side to gain knowledge and insight beyond the normal human experience. They simply wanted to die. They wanted the incessant physical and mental torture to end. The only way the plotline would have actually worked would have been for the members of the secret society to be the ones undergoing the torture and subsequent death. But then who would care? Torture porn works only if the person being tortured is unwilling. They have to be a victim in order to increase the tension as well as give the viewer some reason to actually sympathize with what's going on, making the torture that much more disturbing and visceral.

To me, Martyrs is a very powerful, disturbing film that had so much potential, but ultimately fell flat due to a lack of forethought by the writers.