Gay marriage

[Rotting Eye]

I'm gunna make a few threads about controversial issues. You don't have to start arguing about them, I just want to know what everyone thinks. But you can post an opinion if you want. Just be aware someone is probably going to argue with you.

Notice the options. I made two sets of options, which are pretty much the same, just some depend on how much you know about the topic. So pick between the two. Whether you know about the topic or not. There's a big difference between someone who's educated about a subject, and someone who decides blindly.

[Haunted]

Marriage is a sacred union that should be extended to gays and lesbians. They should have the right to be able to have that blessing bestowed upon them.

As a Pagan, I would handfast a gay or lesbian couple in a minute. I have no problem with it. As a matter of fact I've worked with a gay and lesbian organization to maintain rights here in NC.

[Je Suis Phnomne]

Originally posted by Haunted
Marriage is a sacred union that should be extended to gays and lesbians. They should have the right to be able to have that blessing bestowed upon them.

As a Pagan, I would handfast a gay or lesbian couple in a minute. I have no problem with it. As a matter of fact I've worked with a gay and lesbian organization to maintain rights here in NC.

While I respect your opinion Haunted, Im going to have to take the other side here. I believe firmly that marriage is a union that should only be shared by man and woman. Im not religious so I dont look at their union as blasphemus or whatnot. I just feel in this day and age when kids are having kids, marriages are breaking up over cybersex, and a family of someone that smoked for 45 years can sue for millions and win after that person passes on we as a society are getting out of control. If they wish to spend their lives together, fine so be it, but no matter how hard they try to pretend that their union is the same as man and woman its not, and if anything it draws more attention to the difference by fighting to have this right.

Not looking to fight over this....just my opinion

[Dreaming Girl]

Well, I don't support "marriage" by law in the first place, so...

I personally believe "marriage" should be a private ritual symbolising love. The law should only be involved to the extent of allowing, for instance, one's partner(s) visitation rights if in the hospital and such. Which, frankly, shouldn't be an issue of "law" anyway. The "law" has no place in people's personal lives unless those involved choose it to be so --- ie, splitting up and being unable to settle on their own child custody and such.

That being said - I support all consensual partnerships (being a bisexual polyamorist myself).

[Dreaming Girl]

Originally posted by Je Suis Phnomne
I just feel in this day and age when kids are having kids, marriages are breaking up over cybersex, and a family of someone that smoked for 45 years can sue for millions and win after that person passes on we as a society are getting out of control.

The only thing I don't understand about this statement is that you seem to be comparing a consensual, loving partnership to various negative aspects of society. What's "out of control" about a consensual, loving partnership between adults?

Also, I don't really think the fight to marry underscores the difference between hetero and homosexual unions. After all, fifty years ago interacial marriages were illegal and being fought for much the same way same-sex unions are being fought for now.

[cheebacheeba]

Why you'd wanna get married under a church/religion that spits on your lifestyle is beyond me....
It's called "common law"....go have someone "legally" deem you married, and celebrate someplace where you're not descriminated against....shit, it's like most gay ppl probably wanna get "married" under a certain church and/or religion just to prove a point....

[Vodstok]

I dont understand what the "harm" is resulting from a same-sex marriage. I think (at least in the bible belt and with many staunchly religious people), allowing homosexual marriage would be saying that it is okay to be homosexual, and they cant have that. It's nothing more than fear of what they dont understand and dont want to.

The Catholic church is completely against gay marriage. hell, it was only a few years ago that the pope stated it was okay for a parent to love their gay kid. (what the fuck is that?!?!) Ironically, they turned a blind eye for DECADES towards preists that were molesting children.

Read this:
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/porter/index_1.html

It's a very sickening story. As far as I'm concerned, it completely negates the Catholic Church's moral standing.

That aside, i think it should be fine for homosexuals to get married. Why not let them have as normal a life as they want? Simply because their sexual preference differs from the norm, doesnt make them lesser people. if it's "Not natural", then why do we bother curing disease?That's not natural.... Kids born with Down's Syndrome or other forms of genetic disorders or retardation wouldnt last in nature, so why let them live?

easy, because we are humans and it is whithin our power to break the laws of nature to suit a moral lifestyle. Being attracted to your own sex is not a choice, i dont even believe its a "lifestyle". I have met more people who were just gay than ones who had a traumatic childhood and "became" gay.

I guess, in short, the world should get the fuck over it. Let them get better insurance and get taxed more, just like everyone else.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by Vodstok
I dont understand what the "harm" is resulting from a same-sex marriage. I think (at least in the bible belt and with many staunchly religious people), allowing homosexual marriage would be saying that it is okay to be homosexual, and they cant have that. It's nothing more than fear of what they dont understand and dont want to.

I guess, in short, the world should get the fuck over it. Let them get better insurance and get taxed more, just like everyone else.

I'm not a religious person, but I don't believe Jesus ever commented on homosexuality. If it were such an important subject, don't you think maybe the son of God would have said something about it?

The second paragraph- The problem with not being allowed to marry is that gay couples don't get certain priviledges that only married couples are allowed. Even in civil unions they don't get all the priviledges. For example they don't get the same insurance benefits, they can't visit their loved one in hospitals (not married=not family), and some companies base a portion of income on marriage.

So I say, let them get married. Jesus never spoke against it, and gay couples only want to be treated as equals.

[sleepaway]

I think it's really wrong that gay couples do not get the same benefits that "married" couples get in term of tax and everything so just for this reason alone there should be gay marraiges and I think there will be one day it just takes time. And what difference does it make anyway? I think gay couples are more into the legal side of things than the religious side of marriage.

[Vodstok]

exactly. If ypu refuse to hire someone because they are gay, you get prosecuted by the same law as refusing to hire someone because they are jewish, female, black, retarded, etc. how is this any different?

[abbycomix]

Right on, people should be able to marry regardless of gender. Sometimes I really wonder whatever happened to the separation of church and state!
Anyway it's not as if straight couples have made such great examples of the 'sacred act of heterosexual marriage'. Look at all those quicky weddings and abusive couples. Live and let live.

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
I'm not a religious person, but I don't believe Jesus ever commented on homosexuality. If it were such an important subject, don't you think maybe the son of God would have said something about it?

The second paragraph- The problem with not being allowed to marry is that gay couples don't get certain priviledges that only married couples are allowed. Even in civil unions they don't get all the priviledges. For example they don't get the same insurance benefits, they can't visit their loved one in hospitals (not married=not family), and some companies base a portion of income on marriage.

So I say, let them get married. Jesus never spoke against it, and gay couples only want to be treated as equals.


If you're really curious about it, and you honestly want to know what Jesus said about it...Read Leviticus...It IS mentioned:)

[HappyCamper]

i am personally against the idea of gay marriages. Only because of how i was raised. I was taught that homosexual relationships are sinful. I do however have several gay friends, that understand my view. Just because a person is gay, it doesn't mean i love them anyless, even if i may disagree with their lifestyle. I believe its wrong to judge others, if you judge others, don't be surprised when they judge you, and believe me it's really hard not to judge...

now if two of my gay friends planned to get married, i wouldn't agree with their decision, but i'd still support them.

[Dreaming Girl]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
If you're really curious about it, and you honestly want to know what Jesus said about it...Read Leviticus...It IS mentioned:)

That's old testement - before the time of Christ. By that accord homosexuality is an "abomination" worthy of death. However, most Christians (as far as I know) follow the new testement (that of Jesus Christ and such) which is more or less a new code of conduct (one of forgiveness and a loving god versus the wrathful god of the old testement). I believe it is made clear in the new testement that marriage is the union of a man and a woman, and that all sexual relations outside of marriage are fornification and thus a sin... but it doesn't actually specify or single out homosexuality. Which is something to keep in mind for those who bash homosexuals in the name of the bible yet have had any sort of relations outside of marriage --- you're sinning just as much as they are. ;-)

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by bloodrayne
If you're really curious about it, and you honestly want to know what Jesus said about it...Read Leviticus...It IS mentioned:)

My point being Jesus, the son of God, did not mention it.

I've been leafing around on the net, and yes Leviticus does mention it. However, who wrote it, and who said what, is up for debate. I've read several things thus far saying Moses wrote it at Sinai, and/or that priests wrote it. Who knows? Nowhere did I read that it was Jesus who commented on the subject, or was it him that actually said it, however. I have read numerous things that still believe Jesus hasn't commented on it, and that he has, but only in the Old Testament.

How it is translated is also up for debate, because it was written in Hebrew. I've read several translations that condemn gays, and several that condone gay acts, however with restrictions.

If Leviticus weren't so flimsy of an arguement, I'm sure that anti-gays would be using it to their advantage. I've never even heard of the book until you mentioned it just now, and I pay pretty close attention to the news.

Edit: Aw, you beat me to it Dreaming Girl. ;)

[Sam The Egg]

Ya know what else is in Leviticus?

19:26
Ye shall not eat any thing with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.


Read that last part. "Nor Observe Times". If you're going to say that homosexuality is an abomination because of a line in the bible that could mean something totally different in the context of when it was written, then you'd better not know what time it is.

But that doesn't matter. You can't bring religion into it because you can't take religion into consideration when deciding whether or not something should or should not be legal. If they're going to involve the government into marriages then they can't pick and choose.

[Machine King]

I think the Church (remember this is the same church that has child molesters for preists) should be able to choose who gets married in their domain, however; I think government marriages between 2 people of the same sex should be legal. I personally think what 2 people of the same sex do in the bedroom shouldn't be questioned by the government and if those 2 people want to become married to each other, they shouldn't be stopped by the government.

[Ritualistic]

I personally dont think this is the right place for discussion on this matter, because there is tons of ignorant people on this board. I myself am a lesbian and I havent been on the battle ground fighting for the right for me to marry my girlfriend. Because we will never get the chane to do this, yes Vermont has civil unions but it is restricted in many ways.Which I think is completely fucked the hell up. I just want to tell everyone on this board something that has happend to a fiend of mine (she too is a lesbian) she was with her girlfriend for 27 years but her girlfriend died of cancer a couple years back. They were completely inseperable and loved each other dearly. well after "Tina" began to get sick ended up in a hospital for the rest of her days, her family walzed in took control of everything. "Sonya" was not able to visit her or even talk to her ever again. An by law her family had the right to do this. "Sonya" died of cancer and more and likely with a broken heart. Could anyone imagine dying without seeing the person you are inlove with...?? Without saying goodbye to them.?? "Tina`s" family is very much against gays/lesbians but I guess they felt by keeping "Sonya" away from her they could save her soul. These two women were together for 27 years most marriages dont last that long. the divorce rate is about %50 among heterosexual couples so I think we deserve the right to marry who we love. I am not a christian nor do I believe in this religion, to me it is make believe and the bible is just a story. So if you are a religious nut dont even argue with me about who we are and say our sexuality is an abomination. Love is something that is in a persons heart and can be shared between men and men, women and women, men and women, and sometimes with mutiple partners.

Someone mentioned that gays/lesbians like to prove a points which is so far from the truth, and that was an ignorant remark... this is all I have to say on this subject... \m/ stay sick :-)

[mictlan]

Right on, Ritualistic.

Christianity aside, I think that homosexuals should be able to have a legal union and receive the same benefits that heteros do.
-Federal income tax benefits
-health insurance
-right to make decisions about their partner's estate and medical care if they are unable to do so
-right to inherit their partner's estate

It's not like straight people get married to take advantage of this stuff. Marriage is a pain in the ass and not worth doing just for health and tax benefits. Gay or straight, if you are involved in a long-term relationship and all the nastiness that comes with that type of commitment, you should be entitled to the legal benefits.

[Ritualistic]

Originally posted by mictlan


Gay or straight, if you are involved in a long-term relationship and all the nastiness that comes with that type of commitment, you should be entitled to the legal benefits. That is just what I mean, and you took the words right out of my mouth. My girlfriend and I have been together for over 2 years now and the fear that I have with being her is losing her and never knowing what happens to her. Her parents hate that she is with me and hates that she is a lesbian they have even made comments that if anything happens to her I will never see her again. I mean what type of parents even think of their children dying ..?? I pay my taxes and work like a dog, I have worked ever since I was 16 and have served in the ARMY I have payed my debts to this country I believe I have the right to marry who I love... ya know

[Sam The Egg]

...Ritualistic is a girl?

[bloodrayne]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
...Ritualistic is a girl?


ROTFLMFAO....Sam...You must be the only one here who did NOT know that!...:rolleyes: :D

[hellfire1]

i didn't know that !!!!!!
and i saw the pics !!!!!!!

[mictlan]

Originally posted by Ritualistic
My girlfriend and I have been together for over 2 years now and the fear that I have with being her is losing her and never knowing what happens to her. Her parents hate that she is with me and hates that she is a lesbian they have even made comments that if anything happens to her I will never see her again.

Be sure and look into having a living will done if she wants you to be involved in case of emergency... you might be able to circumvent a lot of family bullshit REALLY EASILY.

I pay my taxes and work like a dog, I have worked ever since I was 16 and have served in the ARMY I have payed my debts to this country I believe I have the right to marry who I love... ya know

Right on. The part that really bothers me is that the current administration wants to prevent people like you from exercising those rights because of their religious beliefs. These are people who haven't even paid their dues like you have... makes me sick. Don't get me started.

[fluffho]

i wanna know how the hell bush is trying to manage banning gay marriage LEGALLY

he wants to make a constitutional amendment...

im hoping the nation isnt doubly stupid and RE ELECTS him

and where are the wmds?

[Sam The Egg]

they're gonna find them JUST in time for the 4th of July

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Ritualistic
That is just what I mean, and you took the words right out of my mouth. My girlfriend and I have been together for over 2 years now and the fear that I have with being her is losing her and never knowing what happens to her. Her parents hate that she is with me and hates that she is a lesbian they have even made comments that if anything happens to her I will never see her again. I mean what type of parents even think of their children dying ..?? I pay my taxes and work like a dog, I have worked ever since I was 16 and have served in the ARMY I have payed my debts to this country I believe I have the right to marry who I love... ya know

Ritualistic,

your previous post brought something to mind that happened at my wifes work, this womans brother was gay and he and his life partner lived together for years and years, anyways they bought a condo together (the gay couple) the womans brother died, cause I am unsure but it makes no difference to the story, anyways the brother left everything to the man he lived with and the bitch sister took the guy to court and made the court take away the condo and all things that they had together. Now she runs around the condo assoc. bragging about how she fucked this guy over that was her brothers lover.

If this is not a case for gay marriage rights I dont know what the HELL is. I am sick and tired of the goverment telling me what I can and cant do in my bedroom. If I want to have sex with a fucking garbage can and marry it, thats my business and no one elses. I have known gay people and found them to be much happier and nicer than those that claim to be straight. It is not a lifestyle for me but I dont think anyone should pass judgement on anyone else for the choices they make when it comes to who they love.

[fluffho]

people against gay marriage always claim that they want to 'uphold the sanctity of marriage' and that gays/lesbians marrying fuck it up

if anything is bringing down marriage, its all these quicky marriages between dumbass people that end up gettin divorced PRETTY nastily that does it. eg JENNIFER LOPEZ!

so they'll let jennifer lopez do all that CRAP yet a loving, gay couple cant?

[Sam The Egg]

Isn't marriage fundamentally legal anyways? I thought the government was supposed to stay out of religious stuff.

[juanhacko]

All you guys make me feel better about the world!
I've known I was gay for 40+ years--and I really haven't been repressed or my style cramped.
I have just as many straight friends as gay ones--probably more.
Yes, I have a boyfriend--but his parents like me--but it has never occurred to me to want to get married.
Except for my parents, who were separated before my birth in 1943, all my parent figures have had long, happy marriages--58yrs.,61yrs.
I'm one of the ones on the poll that voted for civil unions rather than marriage--I guess because the thought of marriage bores me.
I personally have always thought that marriage is for the benefit of the offspring--of which I have none. But I do think couples who want to get married should be allowed to do so.
Thanks again--I did not read a single post which I found offensive--or even that I really disagreed with.
Must get back to packing and moving--D-day is Monday.
Juan.

[coldwhisper]

I'm up for it.

stupid me!!!! i don't know how to atytach images ...grrrrrrrr...

::::bangs head on screen!:::

Now, how do you do that again?

[Sam The Egg]

that's not how you attach images. Go to the attach image thing in the reply page

[sleepaway]

Originally posted by Ritualistic
I personally dont think this is the right place for discussion on this matter, because there is tons of ignorant people on this board. I myself am a lesbian and I havent been on the battle ground fighting for the right for me to marry my girlfriend. Because we will never get the chane to do this, yes Vermont has civil unions but it is restricted in many ways.Which I think is completely fucked the hell up. I just want to tell everyone on this board something that has happend to a fiend of mine (she too is a lesbian) she was with her girlfriend for 27 years but her girlfriend died of cancer a couple years back. They were completely inseperable and loved each other dearly. well after "Tina" began to get sick ended up in a hospital for the rest of her days, her family walzed in took control of everything. "Sonya" was not able to visit her or even talk to her ever again. An by law her family had the right to do this. "Sonya" died of cancer and more and likely with a broken heart. Could anyone imagine dying without seeing the person you are inlove with...?? Without saying goodbye to them.?? "Tina`s" family is very much against gays/lesbians but I guess they felt by keeping "Sonya" away from her they could save her soul. These two women were together for 27 years most marriages dont last that long. the divorce rate is about %50 among heterosexual couples so I think we deserve the right to marry who we love. I am not a christian nor do I believe in this religion, to me it is make believe and the bible is just a story. So if you are a religious nut dont even argue with me about who we are and say our sexuality is an abomination. Love is something that is in a persons heart and can be shared between men and men, women and women, men and women, and sometimes with mutiple partners.

Someone mentioned that gays/lesbians like to prove a points which is so far from the truth, and that was an ignorant remark... this is all I have to say on this subject... \m/ stay sick :-)

Everybody should watch 'If These Walls Could Talk 2' - it illustrates the exact problem that Ritualistic has brought up here in a very clear and heartbreaking manner. It will show you quite clearly how unfare it all is.

[Haunted]

I, personally, cannot see the difference between a woman- woman family and a woman-man family. Both are based on mutual and deep love. Both should be protected by society. Both should be allowed to raise children and committ themselves to a passionate and happy life. The religions that want to take away those rights should fuck off.

Not everyone follows the same path, and just because they (religious nuts) don't think it's right doesn't mean they have to ruin it for everyone else. They think it's their responsibility to protect society... I don't want their fucking protection! Hell, I want protection from them!

A few years ago I was in a wedding for two women. This wasn't a legal ceremony, but a personal loving ceremomy. It was beautiful, and just as meaningful as if it had been for a woman and man.

[Ritualistic]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
...Ritualistic is a girl? LMAO

[_Leatha_Face_]

alot of gay people on this forum it looks like:rolleyes:

[Arioch]

i completely agree with gay marrige, or atleast the idea of giving gay partners the same benifits, under the law, that we give heterosexuals. This is just another form of discrimination, hey if it were a racial issue we wouldve gotten rid of this 50 years ago.

As it stands, they are trying to go back and put in this ammendment into the constitution pretty much stating gay marrige is forbidden, and frankly, the idea of going back and writing that kind of discrimination into the constitution just sickens me.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by sleepaway
Everybody should watch 'If These Walls Could Talk 2' - it illustrates the exact problem that Ritualistic has brought up here in a very clear and heartbreaking manner. It will show you quite clearly how unfare it all is.

Is that a movie or something?

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by _Leatha_Face_
alot of gay people on this forum it looks like:rolleyes:

Yeah, we're all gay. We should change the name to Gayorror.com

[PsychoticPanda]

I think Marriage should be between a man and a woman. But people who hate someone just because they're gay is just fucking stupid.

I also don't believe that people are born gay. How can you tell if you're not attracted to any of the opposite sex?? When you haven't met all of the opposite sex in the world..?? It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Arioch]

But people who hate someone just because they're gay is just fucking stupid.

Completely agree.

I think Marriage should be between a man and a woman

Ok thats a valid point of view, but do you think they should be denyed the same rights as us heterosexuals based on OUR opinions??

alot of gay people on this forum it looks like

If you think that only gay people are advocating for equal rights and equality within the sexes and marriage than thats just ignorant.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by Machine King
I think the Church (remember this is the same church that has child molesters for preists) should be able to choose who gets married in their domain, however; I think government marriages between 2 people of the same sex should be legal. I personally think what 2 people of the same sex do in the bedroom shouldn't be questioned by the government and if those 2 people want to become married to each other, they shouldn't be stopped by the government.

Very well put. That's how it should be, otherwise it's not separtion of church and state.

The main reasons why gays should be able to marry are what Mictlan stated

-Federal income tax benefits
-health insurance
-right to make decisions about their partner's estate and medical care if they are unable to do so
-right to inherit their partner's estate


and of course equality and love.

[Arioch]

agreed Rotting.

[fluffho]

bush shouldnt be re elected just on the fact that he's trying to get a constitutional amendment on this shit

haha.. u have any idea how much the LAWYERS who are trying to write this up are making? fuckin pathetic

[juanhacko]

Originally posted by PsychoticPanda
I think Marriage should be between a man and a woman. But people who hate someone just because they're gay is just fucking stupid.

I also don't believe that people are born gay. How can you tell if you're not attracted to any of the opposite sex?? When you haven't met all of the opposite sex in the world..?? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Your birthday is one day earlier than mine--in October that is--so you must be a Scorpio.
I really do feel that I was born homosexual--I prefer that term to Gay--I look pretty normal, am very happy with my male secondary sexual characteristics, and have nothing against women--I just don't find them sexually appealing--Again. just from my standpoint.
I was raised in a very heterosexual family, and they were not particulary tolerant--or intolerant--of alternate lifestyles--but they accepted me.

Manyof my friends do not know my sexual orientation--although I will out myself to anyone who needs to know.
Thanks for your opinion--I really do have respect for it.

[Rotting Eye]

Originally posted by juanhacko
All you guys make me feel better about the world!


Hey Juan, I'm glad to hear that :)

You're a really nice old dude :D And I'm glad that you're happy!

[juanhacko]

Originally posted by Rotting Eye
Hey Juan, I'm glad to hear that :)

You're a really nice old dude :D And I'm glad that you're happy!

OLD! OLD! OOOLLD!!!!
Sixty isn't old--soy vampiro--I may even be the original Alucard!

Seriously. still do a job which requires a lot of heavy work, Still rollerblade a lot, and keep all kinds of crazy hours.
And I don't have to avoid all bright sunlight.

This will probably be my last post for a few days until I get my computer re-set-up after the move. (I have access to comp. at work but it always recognizes me as an online guest--not a posting member.)

Miss you guys for a few days--
nos vemos,
Juan.

[Haunted]

You rock, Juan!!! Hope the move goes well.


Oh, and Leatha Face... there's a bunch of open minded people on this forum.

[sleepaway]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
Is that a movie or something?

Indeed.

(If these walls could talk 2)