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View Full Version : Digital Video Cam or Camcorder...What's the difference?

bloodrayne
11-13-2008, 07:54 AM
Alex's birthday is coming up...He only wants one thing

He wants something that he can create videos with to upload to youtube.

I know that Ferretchucker and some of you other guys do this...So, what do you use exactly?

I'm not even sure what I need to buy.

It needs to be simple to use and durable with decent quality video and a USB cable to easily upload data into the comp...Preferably with AVI files rather than MOV, but Dustin says they can be converted either way (would just like to skip conversion and keep it as simple as possible)...Also something that easily records for at LEAST 20 minutes or more at a time.
ferretchucker
11-13-2008, 08:04 AM
Mine is a mini DV camera. It records to miniature tapes that can be put into larger casings that fit into VHS's, or it can connect to the computer.

It does this with a firewire. Kinda like a USB slot but it has to be fitted to your computer. It's a pretty simple job. And make sure you have a good wire. With that, I just use windows Movie Maker to "Capture Video". It does this by having it set to "play" and then it rewinds the tape and you tell it when to play. It records whatever it sees, just like a VHS recording from the TV.

I don't know if you knew about that. But one thing is certain, if he wants to upload to youtube, be sure to ask if the camera connects to computers. Many don't. Mine is a JVC GR-D720. It has 28x optical zoom and pretty good picture quality.
bloodrayne
11-13-2008, 08:08 AM
Mine is a mini DV camera. It records to miniature tapes that can be put into larger casings that fit into VHS's, or it can connect to the computer.

It does this with a firewire. Kinda like a USB slot but it has to be fitted to your computer. It's a pretty simple job. And make sure you have a good wire. With that, I just use windows Movie Maker to "Capture Video". It does this by having it set to "play" and then it rewinds the tape and you tell it when to play. It records whatever it sees, just like a VHS recording from the TV.

I don't know if you knew about that. But one thing is certain, if he wants to upload to youtube, be sure to ask if the camera connects to computers. Many don't. Mine is a JVC GR-D720. It has 28x optical zoom and pretty good picture quality.

Thanks for the information...He has Windows Movie Maker and he uses it quite a bit...He makes animated videos (frame by frame) and uploads those to youtube.

So, maybe just about any kind of camcorder or digicam with audio/video capabilities and a USB cable would work, since he's using WMM anyway...Is that correct?
Papillon Noir
11-13-2008, 08:15 AM
A digital video cam and a camcorder are the exact same thing, just a different term.

I would go to best buy, they should be able to help you. Tell them you want to record video and be able to upload it to your computer.

I also wouldn't buy the cheapest there as you get what you pay for and you don't want something with crappy picture and sound. Also, I would suggest getting a tripod.
bloodrayne
11-13-2008, 08:19 AM
A digital video cam and a camcorder are the exact same thing, just a different term.


Thanks, I was actually confused about that

I'm afraid if I ask at the store, they'll try to convince me to buy the most expensive thing they have, most likely with features that he would never need...So, I figured it would be better to ask you guys...Seriously, this is something that I know nothing about.

Thanks for the suggestions :)
ferretchucker
11-13-2008, 08:32 AM
Thanks for the information...He has Windows Movie Maker and he uses it quite a bit...He makes animated videos (frame by frame) and uploads those to youtube.

So, maybe just about any kind of camcorder or digicam with audio/video capabilities and a USB cable would work, since he's using WMM anyway...Is that correct?

Cool. I'd love to see them, what's his youtube account?


And remember, it's not a USB Cable, it's a firewire. There are differences in shape, and as I said, for a fire wire, you will need to have the post installed to your computer. But with that, yes, it should work fine.
bloodrayne
11-13-2008, 08:33 AM
Cool. I'd love to see them, what's his youtube account?


And remember, it's not a USB Cable, it's a firewire. There are differences in shape, and as I said, for a fire wire, you will need to have the post installed to your computer. But with that, yes, it should work fine.

Ok, thanks again :)

Sending you a PM with his account info
ferretchucker
11-13-2008, 08:35 AM
Ok, thanks again :)

Sending you a PM with his account info

Good idea. ;)
ManchestrMorgue
11-13-2008, 09:46 PM
Hi, just saw this.

You can either buy a dedicated digital video camera or a digital camera that shoots movies also (most point and shoot cameras do this, but the quality varies widely as does the length of time and quality that they shoot).

It sounds like length of time matters, but quality won't be all that important if it is only for Youtube.

However, you will get a better result if you use a digitial video camera (camcorder, DV cam, whatever you want to call it).

Video cameras can shoot to a variety of different media. Most popular are: DV tapes, Solid state memory cards (eg SD cards), hard disks, and DVDs.

Don't get one that shoots to DVD's as you will want to edit it if you are thinking of making clips for youtube.

Hard disks I think are the next least useful, as you are stuck with the size of the hard drive it is installed with. You have to transfer to your computer before you can erase the drive and start again (or you lose your stuff). This is a pain if you are shooting and didn't realise that you only had a certain amount of storage left (read: not enough!).

So go for either a DV tape camcorder, or one that shoots to memory cards. This way, the storage media are removable, and you can just pop another one in if you run out before you thought you would.

Now, you can either get standard definition, or high def camcorders. For Youtube you really don't need high def. But if you also want to make high def movies for your high def TV then you may want to consider this.

As Ferret so wisely pointed out, you want one with a firewire connection rather than just USB, because it has higher practical bandwidth than USB (even though USB has higher nominal bandwidth). So you won't have a problem with potential dropped frames.

And for the love of your god or goddess, fuck Windows Movie Maker off and get some decent software. Adobe Premiere Elements is cheap enough (under $100) and easy enough to use. And you might actually be happy with the results. :)
Despare
11-13-2008, 09:58 PM
Don't get one that shoots to DVD's as you will want to edit it if you are thinking of making clips for youtube.


My wife's shoots to DVD/Mini DVD/or SD card, as long as you use RWs and don't finalize the disc you can edit the files, put them back on the DVD, or just save them to a file and post them online.
bwind22
11-13-2008, 11:41 PM
Just get a Sony Handycam. Easy to use, fairly inexpensive. (You can probably get one for around $100, maybe less, off Craigslist or ebay.)

But you'll want to use a firewire to transfer the video instead of a USB. You'll get much higher quality.
Ferox13
11-13-2008, 11:41 PM
Sony seem to make pretty decent cheap Mini-DV cams.

All the Sony use glass carl zeiss lens which are really good. It seems to me alot of the xtras that you pay more are easily recreated when you're editing on a computer and are an unnessary expense.

A Mini-DV cam will prolly get you the best quality for the price than any other format..


But you'll want to use a firewire to transfer the video instead of a USB. You'll get much higher quality.

I don't that will change the quality at all - I think firewire is less likely to drop frames during the capturing stage.
bwind22
11-13-2008, 11:54 PM
Less dropped frames = higher quality video

(Firewire gives you faster download speeds too.)
Ferox13
11-13-2008, 11:56 PM
(Firewire gives you faster download speeds too.)


DV is captured in real time :)
bwind22
11-14-2008, 12:02 AM
Firewire is superior to USB for uploading video from camera to computer or camera to internet.

I have a Handycam and I've uploaded dozens of hours of footage. With USB, it is nothing but problems. With Firewire, smooth sailing.

But don't take my word for it...

http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm
ManchestrMorgue
11-14-2008, 12:05 AM
All the Sony use glass carl zeiss lens which are really good.

Didn't Sony buy Carl Zeiss?

So they could put that name on the end of a Coke bottle if they wanted to.
Ferox13
11-14-2008, 12:07 AM
LOL - I'm just teasing you.....

Of course firewire is better - I was just nit picking by saying its not faster for capturing Mini-DV tapes because they are captured in real time..


Didn't Sony buy Carl Zeiss?

So they could put that name on the end of a Coke bottle if they wanted to.

Is this true - damn....

I do know my photography friends still swear by em..
Ferox13
11-14-2008, 12:15 AM
http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/artikelen/55/sony-hc62.jpg

I'm going to get this one next week. It looks ok-ish. I'm getting a second hand Sony PD-150 at some stage but the fine details seem to be taking for ever. i can just use the HC62 as a carrry arounf camera.

I don't see much point in getting HD at this stage as I don't have the equipment to edit it.
ManchestrMorgue
11-14-2008, 12:15 AM
My wife's shoots to DVD/Mini DVD/or SD card, as long as you use RWs and don't finalize the disc you can edit the files, put them back on the DVD, or just save them to a file and post them online.

Yeah, of course you can edit if you save to DVD/Mini DVD.

But camcorders that shoot to DVD store in MPEG2 (obviously, so they can be played on a DVD player).

MPEG2 is a lossy compression scheme that uses a system of key frames and intermediate predicted frames. So editing a video clip is more likely to suffer generational loss because by chance you are likely to be using predicted frames to generate more predicted frames.
ManchestrMorgue
11-14-2008, 12:24 AM
Is this true - damn....

I do know my photography friends still swear by em..

Well they don't exactly own them, but they have a 'close partnership'.

http://www.vision.zeiss.com.au/__c12567a8003b58b9.nsf/Contents-Frame/c7fb960ed6f52805c125711e004ad17c?opendocument&click=

Note in the link that lenses are designed by Carl Zeiss and then manufactured in a plant jointly chosen by Carl Zeiss and Sony.

I wonder who would wear the pants in that relationship, based or relative industrial might?
bwind22
11-14-2008, 12:25 AM
I want to get a DVX-200 eventually, but I'll need to scrape together a few grand first. I'd definitely recommend starting with something smaller like a Sony.
bloodrayne
11-14-2008, 08:29 AM
Holy COW!...This is a LOT of information to digest (and I understand about HALF of it :p)

Thanks to all of you for the help and info

I think I'm in a bit over my head

I'll let you guys know what we end up with...There's apparently quite a bit to consider.

THANKS! :)
Despare
11-14-2008, 08:40 AM
But camcorders that shoot to DVD store in MPEG2 (obviously, so they can be played on a DVD player).


MPEG4 files (I just pulled one up)
ManchestrMorgue
11-14-2008, 12:55 PM
MPEG4 files (I just pulled one up)

It shoots to DVD in MPEG4 format? or it shoots to the SD card in MPEG4 format and the DVD in MPEG2 format?
Despare
11-14-2008, 02:12 PM
It shoots to DVD in MPEG4 format? or it shoots to the SD card in MPEG4 format and the DVD in MPEG2 format?

It can shoot to the DVD in MPEG4 if you do not finalize the disc. If you don't finalize it basically the DVD just holds the data like a card (I haven't tried it with anything but RW discs but I'm sure if you used a regular DVD-R it would be MPEG2).
ManchestrMorgue
11-14-2008, 02:19 PM
It can shoot to the DVD in MPEG4 if you do not finalize the disc. If you don't finalize it basically the DVD just holds the data like a card (I haven't tried it with anything but RW discs but I'm sure if you used a regular DVD-R it would be MPEG2).

Oh ok I was wondering about that. I didn't realise that it would shoot to disc in a format not suitable for a standalone DVD player.

How do you find the MPEG4 quality compared to MPEG2? I would imagine it is a bit better?

Some of the new high def camcorders that shoot to cards in MPEG4 have amazing picture quality.