Just got back from an Obama rally

[Leprucky Cougar]

Hey guys. For those of you that haven't figured out by now, one of the things I love is politics. I got back from my second Obama rally in Harrisonburg, VA. James Madison University hosted it. There was talk of putting it on the college's football field, but do to the bitter coldness and shortly after it started to snow they just went with the original plan and let the first 8,000 go in this convention center type hall; all others [I'm assuming another 12-15,000] were allowed to attend a festival, or remain on the soccer field as audio of Obama's speech was heard. The actually speech wasn't until 5 but I got there at 1:30. There were even people camping out last night and early morning for the wait. But I think it was worth it...I would do it again. For those that couldn't get in, Obama first spoke outside for 15 minutes to people and shook hands. So many people were trying to snap photos and there were so many people that ran towards the gates when they heard and saw hiim walk out. It was incredible. I was about 20 feet away from him.

Of course there were republican voter protestors. I saw this one guy who appeared drunk who said as he held up his poster: "Keep Virginia Red for the Rednecks!" Another one said : "The constitution is not fundamentally flawed!Vote McCain Palin on November 4th." Another group was shouting: "We need no change. Let's stay the same and anti-gay. Keep the liberal left wing politicians away!" Then some people waiting in line started verbally fighting with them, and people starting cutting lines, and such. The security kept it in line for the most part but besides that things weren't that crazy.

Most of his speech was reiterating the specifics on his economic, education, and energy plans as well as re-igniting the vision for Americas future, direction, and promise. Then on foreign issues discussed foreign oil, and the war [stressing out that he is prepared to defend the nations interests but if and only if they were threatened and the specifc groups that caused them; and also indicated that though it is important not to negoitiate out of fear--but we shouldn't also be afraid to negoitiate. Then he addressed the impact of voting--said he knows there are some that still felt their vote is irrelevant but not this time--and don't just assume that because he may be ahead in the polls it's a given --because it isn't. That there's still plenty of time left in the race and especially in "either way" states such as VA, OH, FL, etc.

Sorry for the tangent, and if you're annoyed --I was just excited. I can't wait to watch the election results on November 4th after Polls close. I have my scorecard and everything.

[bloody_ribcut]

obama fo yo momma!

[Leprucky Cougar]

obama fo yo momma!

Definitely had people buying pins that said Obama MAMA, Ridin' with Biden, T-shirts that said Barack the Vote, Barrack House, and one of my favs: Let's all just Barack and Roll."

[The_Return]

McCain's done...he just keeps driving his campaign further into the ground.

Fine with me - My country elected the wrong guy, but you folks dont have to :)

[Leprucky Cougar]

McCain's done...he just keeps driving his campaign further into the ground.

Fine with me - My country elected the wrong guy, but you folks dont have to :)

Thanks. I appreciate the optimism.

I'm about sick of McCain's "Joe the plumber" references. And Palin's nonsensical approaches to answer the question by restating the question as and answer or going on semi-irrelevant tangents--whether it be soccer moms or the fact that she didn't stop working during her pregnancy. As if there aren't any other moms whom haven't done it. And they probably had too--I believe she didn't intentionally to make herself more appealing.

[monalisa]

YES! I want to pay more taxes! Go OBAMA BIN BIDEN!!!

OK, I'll shut up now. GGGgggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[Elvis_Christ]

Monalisa just got back from a Klan rally

[monalisa]

Monalisa just got back from a Klan rally

Nope. Don't be stupid (I know it's hard for you). :p

[pinkfloyd45769]

Don't be picking on Elvis:p

[pinkfloyd45769]

I'm not voting,i know its a waste not to vote and i should.I just can't decide and i'm sick of them both.

[The Mothman]

McCain's done...he just keeps driving his campaign further into the ground.

Fine with me - My country elected the wrong guy, but you folks dont have to :)

I thought you were from the US...where are you from?

[missmacabre]

McCain's done...he just keeps driving his campaign further into the ground.

Fine with me - My country elected the wrong guy, but you folks dont have to :)

So true. It's a damn shame.

I thought you were from the US...where are you from?
Canada.

[Leprucky Cougar]

I'm not voting,i know its a waste not to vote and i should.I just can't decide and i'm sick of them both.

No !!!!!!!!! It matters. Even if you're not voting for the one I or one of your friends likes, exercise your RIGHT to vote. Think about those who can't.

[The_Return]

I thought you were from the US...where are you from?

I'm a Canuck, born and raised dude. The land of the beaver, maple syrup, hockey and a curious lack of igloos :p

EDIT - Just realized that I typed that with a big ol' cup of Tim Horton's coffee in my other hand. If that doesn't prove the point...nothing will.

[monalisa]

No !!!!!!!!! It matters. Even if you're not voting for the one I or one of your friends likes, exercise your RIGHT to vote. Think about those who can't.


I thought you were 17, maybe I'm remembering that incorretly (wouldn't be the first time). :)

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think it's encouraging that you have such enthusiasm for voting. I may not agree with your choice, but that's fine. We all have the right to our opinions and choices. It's one of the great freedoms we still have in this country. And this country may have it's problems, but I still think it's the best country in the world.

[The_Return]

So true. It's a damn shame.


Isn't it though.

It's too bad the Liberals ran such a weak campaign...the carbon tax really could have benefited the country. Harper's just going to have us more of the same, and keep trying to turn us into USA: Part 2.

I'll admit that Dion probably doesn't have what it takes to lead the country - but at least he had some new ideas, and that's a hell of a lot more than you can say about Harper.

But hey - at least he wont have Bush to chum around with anymore.

[monalisa]

Isn't it though.

It's too bad the Liberals ran such a weak campaign...the carbon tax really could have benefited the country. Harper's just going to have us more of the same, and keep trying to turn us into USA: Part 2.

I'll admit that Dion probably doesn't have what it takes to lead the country - but at least he had some new ideas, and that's a hell of a lot more than you can say about Harper.

But hey - at least he wont have Bush to chum around with anymore.

I have to admit, Bush has been a disappointment (to say the least). :( One way or another, hopefully things will change for the better.

[novakru]

Not to stir trouble...seriously.
It has to be said

Excercise your right to vote.
Yes, it is a privilege and it is amazing-I am so happy America is the way it is.
Flaws and all, we have the best country because the ability to change our minds, voice our opinion and read what we want (except certain towns in WVA)

We also have the RIGHT to not be political, or religious for that matter.
I live in a very Republican, Fundamental Religious town.
I am a minority in the views I have.
I am made to feel stupid because I do not vote.
I am made to feel I am UN-AMERICAN (whaaaa? I have the right to my voice too right? Oh wait, that's only if I agree with the majority...hm?)
I hate war, but have the utmost respect for what our soliders do for us, but I am made to feel I am spitting on them because I want them to stop fighting a losing battle.

I feel like people should be judged by character
I feel people have the right to their beliefs about God or non belief...shit even in the bible we are said to have FREE WILL..der
I feel people should say their peace but respect another's as well.
I think our enviroment is the most important problem we have today and it's too damn late for anything to help it....10 years ago maybe- but Bush has truly fucked that one in the ass. Although I still recycle and reuse.
I think people spend too much time judging and not seeing their own faults, but you know what, they have that right!

I do not like politics and I will not vote for a broken, irreparable system that has gone so far from what our founding fathers intended .
Our polictical system has the foundations to transform America into fucking Utopia, I have no doubt.
It would have to be torn down to that foundation and re -built by people who are not racist, sexist, or whatever the religious one is...no bias in any way, not bought, not sold, no money for this, that or the other bribe or gift. The people of the new government would have to be honest, decent and intelligent and have a selfless agenda.
It's not going to happen.
I will not add to the chaos with my vote that could be discarded at a politicians whim anyway.
Think that can't happen?
Let me tell you about the early voting here:
You go in, SIGN YOUR NAME and vote
No proof of ID, no proof of voter registration, NOTHING
So, I could go in there and vote and then change my appearence and vote again
If you get caught, it's a federal offense- but um, if I am FAKING my name- how the hell are they going to find me eh??
This little fact makes me sick but it's completely not suprising.



I think if a 100 more of you LEP...could really get in there and tear it up and truly make a difference.
But the thing is, youth is idealistic and has the energy to change things....if you can manage to get into politics and not have those good morals destroyed , then all the power to you honey, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
So, influence your friends, get a gang of people like minded as you are, study the law, get into entry level government jobs and keep on climbing baby.:)

I haven't lost my hope, almost, but not completely.
I still think at the end of the movie, in 2 seconds, something miraculous might happen....

[Posher778]

Go Ron Paul!


Oh, wait... This is America, the good candidates always get knocked out.

[hammerfan]

*gives novakru a standing ovation*

That was beautiful and well said!

[ferretchucker]

Flaws and all, we have the best country because the ability to change our minds, voice our opinion and read what we want (except certain towns in WVA)



***AHEM***

Just remember your countries older brother! :rolleyes:

But still, well said.

[Doc Faustus]

Not to stir trouble...seriously.
It has to be said

Excercise your right to vote.
Yes, it is a privilege and it is amazing-I am so happy America is the way it is.
Flaws and all, we have the best country because the ability to change our minds, voice our opinion and read what we want (except certain towns in WVA)

We also have the RIGHT to not be political, or religious for that matter.
I live in a very Republican, Fundamental Religious town.
I am a minority in the views I have.
I am made to feel stupid because I do not vote.
I am made to feel I am UN-AMERICAN (whaaaa? I have the right to my voice too right? Oh wait, that's only if I agree with the majority...hm?)
I hate war, but have the utmost respect for what our soliders do for us, but I am made to feel I am spitting on them because I want them to stop fighting a losing battle.

I feel like people should be judged by character
I feel people have the right to their beliefs about God or non belief...shit even in the bible we are said to have FREE WILL..der
I feel people should say their peace but respect another's as well.
I think our enviroment is the most important problem we have today and it's too damn late for anything to help it....10 years ago maybe- but Bush has truly fucked that one in the ass. Although I still recycle and reuse.
I think people spend too much time judging and not seeing their own faults, but you know what, they have that right!

I do not like politics and I will not vote for a broken, irreparable system that has gone so far from what our founding fathers intended .
Our polictical system has the foundations to transform America into fucking Utopia, I have no doubt.
It would have to be torn down to that foundation and re -built by people who are not racist, sexist, or whatever the religious one is...no bias in any way, not bought, not sold, no money for this, that or the other bribe or gift. The people of the new government would have to be honest, decent and intelligent and have a selfless agenda.
It's not going to happen.
I will not add to the chaos with my vote that could be discarded at a politicians whim anyway.
Think that can't happen?
Let me tell you about the early voting here:
You go in, SIGN YOUR NAME and vote
No proof of ID, no proof of voter registration, NOTHING
So, I could go in there and vote and then change my appearence and vote again
If you get caught, it's a federal offense- but um, if I am FAKING my name- how the hell are they going to find me eh??
This little fact makes me sick but it's completely not suprising.



I think if a 100 more of you LEP...could really get in there and tear it up and truly make a difference.
But the thing is, youth is idealistic and has the energy to change things....if you can manage to get into politics and not have those good morals destroyed , then all the power to you honey, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
So, influence your friends, get a gang of people like minded as you are, study the law, get into entry level government jobs and keep on climbing baby.:)

I haven't lost my hope, almost, but not completely.
I still think at the end of the movie, in 2 seconds, something miraculous might happen....

To a certain extent I concur with you. The system is indeed broken. We deserve an America where people can take care of each other and everybody pulls their weight but will take on some of their smaller brother's burden if he needs help. We deserve an America in line with the French enlightenment ideals that helped create it. We deserve an America where community means community and there's no way one politician playing this game differently can change it, right? Not so. We have had fundamental freedoms stripped from us and most our are crawling on our bellies through an economic desert seeking food and shelter. But it could be worse. We could play on the assumption that a rich man has a bigger house, a bigger brain and a bigger heart and when given a chance to retain more of his wealth will send it on down. It didn't work in the 80s when Reagan proposed it and it won't work again. The rich in case everybody hasn't noticed, are still rich and the poor are not getting richer. How can tax cuts for them help us out? Obama's middle class tax cuts do in fact help out the middle class. It's concrete and not as nebulous as tax cuts for the rich leading to wealth for the poor. The freedom to not help out one's fellow man is an absurd freedom. We can't grant this freedom without taking away the freedom of many others. I don't believe in presidents, I believe in the law only as ethical understandings and I believe in communities as tribes and I can see that the tribe doesn't benefit from the rich keeping rich. The best thing I can do is live outside of politics following my heart and conscience and my heart and conscience say the best way to grant everybody the freedom of wellbeing is by voting and hoping that the vote isn't hijacked again. If it is, it will be easier to tell as Mc Cain is doing pretty damn poorly and the math will not work out, which ought to be enough for the tribe to finally start defending itself from the interloper. Anarchists, socialists, communists and libertarians can all agree upon existential freedoms. One such freedom is the freedom not to starve and die or see the smaller and weaker among us starve and die.

[chizzle]

fuck Obama....


sorry i just wanted to say that....







No matter who wins...we are still FUCKED

[Doc Faustus]

We are. But we could be super fucked instead.

[chizzle]

if it was a good fuck i wouldnt mind it lmao



but this is ass rape with no lube lmao

[Doc Faustus]

The thing people don't seem to get is that deductions don't always mean money in the hand. Less taxable income isn't too helpful to people who barely have any taxable income at all. A lot of people who barely eke out a living by doing things like freelance video editing or having two waitressing jobs don't get too much of a break from having less taxable income.

[chaibill]

Obama should win unless the GOP cheats again. In ohio they are trying to turn people away if there house has been foreclosed on since they don't have an address. Praise Jesus. assholes

[monster123]

I think Obama will be our worst president yet. I didnt vote because its a waste of time hes a shoe-in and it upsets me :(

[chizzle]

I think Obama will be our worst president yet. I didnt vote because its a waste of time hes a shoe-in and it upsets me :(

i have to agree with you.

[Despare]

I'm not voting,i know its a waste not to vote and i should.I just can't decide and i'm sick of them both.

Vote for Ron Paul...


seriously, this election is a joke, I've seen MULTIPLE newscasts on their fucking wardrobe. We're getting closer and closer to big government, pretty soon they'll be telling us what movies we can't watch or games we can't play (sorry Australia) and they'll all be protecting us from ourselves. Obama will most likely get elected and then given praise for everything good that happens even IF it's the result of plans already in place. I don't really like McCain but I REALLY don't like his socialist, rhetoric spewing opponent. I used to be so into politics... I hate them now, probably because voting has less to do with politics then ever before.

Obama should win unless the GOP cheats again. In ohio they are trying to turn people away if there house has been foreclosed on since they don't have an address. Praise Jesus. assholes

Somebody still doesn't understand how our voting process works I see...

[chizzle]

Ron Paul got screwed. :mad:

[Festered]

Monalisa just got back from a Klan rally


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[monster123]

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LOFL thats hilarious! :D

[bloodrayne]

Obama should win unless the GOP cheats again. In ohio they are trying to turn people away if there house has been foreclosed on since they don't have an address. Praise Jesus. assholes

People who lose their homes can register a new address with voter registration...They can use the address of a friend, family member, or even a homeless shelter, as long as the address is inhabited and valid...It's every voter's responsibility to make sure that their registration is accurate, complete, and current at the time that they vote...If people do what they are supposed to do, they will have no problems...If invalid addresses were accepted, people could jump from county to county and vote as many times as they want, we can't have that...This is not a NEW law, it has always been this way in states that require proof of residence, personally I believe it should be this way in EVERY state to reduce the potential for voter fraud...If you are TRULY concerned about voter fraud, you should look into ACORN, they have already been indicted for it, Obama was one of the lawyers defending them at that time.

Also, are you implying that the GOP can use this to their advantage because you believe that ONLY Democrats were foolish enough to accept loans for mortgages that they knew they couldn't possibly pay?...That makes your assertion a bit insulting to the liberals, doesn't it?...Or have you not really thought about it, and you're just repeating a talking point that you've heard in the media?

[chaibill]

Just saying that the GOP would assume that poor people that lost their homes would vote democrat. Like in 2000 they assumed that if they didn't let blacks vote they could win in florida. You know if you had the same name of a felon you are now a felon and can't vote. Remember one of them was a black woman that also was an attorney and she couldn't vote.

I know you need an address. This morning NPR said that ohio is letting homeless vote as long as they have an address for that day like a shelter. That sounds a bit fishy.

All i am saying is I would hate for Obama to loose because of something like what happened to Gore in 2000. Wouldn't you agree?

[novakru]

Any new tax bill is just a golden carrot for votes, favors, sex appeal....
Doc is right on the money with that one.
Also, there are other deviousness that goes on with our 'tax cuts'
And I do see some of our rights being trampled on and pushed especially the church and state one, jeeeeez, no more on that though, to tired to think about it.

Just something that popped into my head reading some of the responses here:
I have a friend that is originally from Cameroon, Africa
She is a lawyer (exclusively a momma at the moment) the husband is a doctor.
They both are fed up with the American poor and think a serious lack of common sense is the only thing preventing them from being ,not so much well off, but having the things they need without debt.
She says the people in her country that are poor, stay poor, there is not much opportunity to become anything else.I think she said the lower schools (our grade schools) are not free, but I am not positive I heard that right (she has the thickest french accent, I have to ask her to repeat things all the time )
The rich stay rich and are much more comfortable than America's rich- why?
They do not incur debt, they have no credit cards- they pay for everything up front-that means cars, houses, land-everything they own-they OWN outright.
There is no middle class and there most likely wouldn't be here if there was no such thing as credit.
Credit was an astonishing and absurd thing to them when they moved here.

American's, in their opinion, HAVE options. You can be born poor and get an education and get ahead in the world- we have vast opportunties to go to school and really, no one can be denied going to college, there are enough grants, loans, etc to get thru.
The husband gets very frustrated at the poor choices some of the low income men and women make.(He one of few GP's that take public insurance in this town) He doesn't understand why, except for superficial reasons, that anybody living in this country can't be anything they choose to be.

It made an interesting conversation that day and alot for me to think about.












AND FERRET
Your country is small, nuff said :)

[bloodrayne]

@Nova, I agree with your friend 100%, I have always felt this way...I believe that welfare and other programs designed to 'help' people, actually hurt them by discouraging them from bettering themselves (except for the elderly and handicapped, they NEED assistance, and it's through no fault of their own).

One of the GREATEST things about America is the opportunity to do, be and have whatever you want, as long as you're willing to work for it, and as simple as that seems to us (who have always had those opportunities), it's astonishing to people who live in other places who have never had those types of opportunities...There's a reason why we have so many immigrants and people literally DYING to try to make a life in our country.

[Doc Faustus]

A lot of poor people are tricked into bad mortgages, browbeaten by banks, discriminated against by local employers. refused business loans, unable to pay back student loans on time, struggling artists, writers and musicians, disabled, living in poor areas but unable to afford relocating without work, laid off from higher paying jobs and forced to take unskilled work to provide for children. My mother is an ex-marine with culinary arts training who cannot find work as a chef. My stepfather has a commercial arts degree and does contracting, but because of a deceitful realtor and lawyer and discussions with local contractors was led to believe there was a glut of work in the town in Pennsylvania they moved to. It wasn't true. They both work at a supermarket to support my three siblings because work in commercial arts and culinary arts is scarce in the town and they need to be able to be with the children whenever possible. My girlfriend's father has a doctorate in physics but couldn't find work in the university system or high schools and has had to go back to Mexico. Poverty is not just about stupidity. That's a very Republican and ignorant thing to say. "If you're so smart why aren't you poor?" is more like it nowadays. An education doesn't always mean more money unless you go to law school or become a doctor. Is everybody supposed to be a doctor? What about the people who go to school for the arts? Are they all just stupid? Is every writer forced to wait tables dumber than the blueblooded corporate daddy's boys who inherit companies? I know at least twenty people with BA's from a school whose faculty was rated third best in dealing with material by the Princeton review who aren't making ends meet. Grad students are unemployed. People with BAs are unemployed. There are just as many poor geniuses are poor idiots and it's not just because the poor are beerswilling Nascar watching inbreds.

[La Chat Noire]

A lot of poor people are tricked into bad mortgages, browbeaten by banks, discriminated against by local employers. refused business loans, unable to pay back student loans on time, struggling artists, writers and musicians, disabled, living in poor areas but unable to afford relocating without work, laid off from higher paying jobs and forced to take unskilled work to provide for children. My mother is an ex-marine with culinary arts training who cannot find work as a chef. My stepfather has a commercial arts degree and does contracting, but because of a deceitful realtor and lawyer and discussions with local contractors was led to believe there was a glut of work in the town in Pennsylvania they moved to. It wasn't true. They both work at a supermarket to support my three siblings because work in commercial arts and culinary arts is scarce in the town and they need to be able to be with the children whenever possible. My girlfriend's father has a doctorate in physics but couldn't find work in the university system or high schools and has had to go back to Mexico. Poverty is not just about stupidity. That's a very Republican and ignorant thing to say. "If you're so smart why aren't you poor?" is more like it nowadays. An education doesn't always mean more money unless you go to law school or become a doctor. Is everybody supposed to be a doctor? What about the people who go to school for the arts? Are they all just stupid? Is every writer forced to wait tables dumber than the blueblooded corporate daddy's boys who inherit companies? I know at least twenty people with BA's from a school whose faculty was rated third best in dealing with material by the Princeton review who aren't making ends meet. Grad students are unemployed. People with BAs are unemployed. There are just as many poor geniuses are poor idiots and it's not just because the poor are beerswilling Nascar watching inbreds.

Well said, Doc. It isn't always quite so easy to get an opportunity in America.

[monalisa]

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Soooooooo other people can voice their displeasure with Obama and it's fine. I do it and get labled a Klan member. Well that's typical. :mad: Fuck you.

I am surprised and actually quite pleased that anyone even knows who Ron Paul is. That's who would have gotten my vote and still might.

[Elvis_Christ]

Soooooooo other people can voice their displeasure with Obama and it's fine. I do it and get labled a Klan member. Well that's typical. :mad: Fuck you.


Other people can read jokes and not take the the wrong way too :)

[pinkfloyd45769]

I have to disagree with what was said about welfare.I work for a company that helps people,parents of small children,to get the help they need.We live in a jobless community,there is nothing here.The people we help sign on to welfare programs are usually ashamed.I feel so bad for these people,its not fair.It really pisses me off to go into a business and the person waiting on you looks like they are 15 and does nothing but complain.There are people out there that would give anything for those jobs.So,what i'm trying to say is that i think welfare can help some people better themselves.Where i live they have to work for it,they work just as hard as anyone else.Does it make a difference?I think so!I know there are the so called welfare bums,not here anymore.If you don't work,you don';t get it!


The reason i decided not to vote is because i cannot make up my mind.I only have a few days and i don't see it happening.I think its a waste if i vote for someone i'm not sure i want.Do you guys understand what i'm saying?

[Elvis_Christ]

Agree with you on the welfare issue Pinky Pinkster Poodlepie

[monalisa]

Other people can read jokes and not take the the wrong way too :)


Arg, yah I know, usually I'm a lot better at that too. Sorry. I'll lighten up. Just going through some more shit that I won't bore you all with. But Elvis, I gotta say, you have never been very nice to me, although that just might be your style. I'm just sick of life being such a struggle.

[Leprucky Cougar]

I thought you were 17, maybe I'm remembering that incorretly (wouldn't be the first time). :)

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think it's encouraging that you have such enthusiasm for voting. I may not agree with your choice, but that's fine. We all have the right to our opinions and choices. It's one of the great freedoms we still have in this country. And this country may have it's problems, but I still think it's the best country in the world.


You're right I am...I may not have the right to vote yet...but I have the right to help campaign and volunteer for the delegates of my choosing. And thankyou to what u said before. Finally some sensical independents or republicans [I'm not sure what u affiliate with]

[novakru]

First of all, I said nothing to disagree with.
My words never said anything about Welfare, I wasn't even thinking of it.
The lady's husband I was talking about took government insurance and noone over a certain yearly income can get that, so he is one that sees alot of lower income people. I never made any reference to anyone being the derogatory names Doc used in his post. I never would, it's degrading.
There are people that truly struggle, and they are the ones Welfare was created for-to help them along the way.
If you knew anything about me, it would be clear I see people on an even level
and maybe, just maybe not everybody is cut out to be famous.
What's your version of success?
Mine is having good kids.
Mine is my grandfather who worked as a coal miner and when he turned 42 bought his first house and owned it, owned his car and grew a impressive garden in the backyard. He never said a bad word about anybody and always had a smile, a joke and a piece of carmel chews for me.
Was he rich? Not by material means, but I have never met another person as good as he was. He is the reason I do not hate men.
FYI:
Welfare was created to help temporarily
I have a personal experience with it as well.
When my husband lost his job and after 6 months of searching and no new job, we had no income.
We got food stamps and we were disqualified to receive a monthy check because we both owned cars over a $2000 value.
That was the excuse
Not getting into any other details but that was a pretty soul crushing experience.
My mom and me lived in fucking squallor most of my young life, and yet never went on Welfare, instead she worked 3 jobs and went into the Navy and went to college and even though it was slow going, got a Masters in Social Work at age 36. I may have my differences with that women, but that is fucking impressive.




Now, let's see how you all miss the point of this post...;)

[Leprucky Cougar]

[QUOTE=novakru;750561]I do not like politics and I will not vote for a broken, irreparable system that has gone so far from what our founding fathers intended .
Our polictical system has the foundations to transform America into fucking Utopia, I have no doubt.
It would have to be torn down to that foundation and re -built by people who are not racist, sexist, or whatever the religious one is...no bias in any way, not bought, not sold, no money for this, that or the other bribe or gift. The people of the new government would have to be honest, decent and intelligent and have a selfless agenda.
It's not going to happen.
I will not add to the chaos with my vote that could be discarded at a politicians whim anyway.
Think that can't happen?
Let me tell you about the early voting here:
You go in, SIGN YOUR NAME and vote
No proof of ID, no proof of voter registration, NOTHING
So, I could go in there and vote and then change my appearence and vote again
If you get caught, it's a federal offense- but um, if I am FAKING my name- how the hell are they going to find me eh??
This little fact makes me sick but it's completely not suprising.

In response to this....you're not alone. I reccomend reading Larry Sabato's A More Perfect Constitution. It's great. Discusses the founding fathers predictions and intentions; also stresses to some extent a lac k of specificity with the way they wrote it. Also indicates--for the most part the gov't isn't the core problem--the fact that too many right wing conservatives don't want to reform it--update it to the generation it is suppose to serve, not one 242 years ago. Also indicates provisions to fully proportion representatives with citizens, etc. Anyway--it outlines the good, thoroughly discusses the bad--and provides suggestions that he as well as I and others encourage ppl to get informed about and push towards congress [as others like myself will get there].


I think if a 100 more of you LEP...could really get in there and tear it up and truly make a difference.
But the thing is, youth is idealistic and has the energy to change things....if you can manage to get into politics and not have those good morals destroyed , then all the power to you honey, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
So, influence your friends, get a gang of people like minded as you are, study the law, get into entry level government jobs and keep on climbing baby.:)

QUOTE]

Oh, I'm working on it believe me. I've gone to rallies, campaign offices, spoke to former workers from the military whom instead of living a lie resigned--received a lot of crap from the Bush ADmin for doing so--but was able to write a book about feeling great about doing what was right and speaking up as opposed to conforming to something that's techincally a violation of the UN's principles. I won't get into details--but I wrote the title of this in the what book are u reading thread [if ur interested]. And I'm gonna see if I can either go to the local capitol here at some point--or b/c I live in Maryland--eventually just go to DC myself during the next congressional session--[after elections are over]. I'm making attempts, nova. :)

[Leprucky Cougar]

fuck Obama....


sorry i just wanted to say that....







No matter who wins...we are still FUCKED


How are we fucked by both?

I respect your opinion--just is there an argument for it?

[Leprucky Cougar]

I think Obama will be our worst president yet. I didnt vote because its a waste of time hes a shoe-in and it upsets me :(

WTF?!?!?! It's not a shoe-in. All of the people who think that, probably won't vote and that's how he'll end up losing. I so f***ing wish people wouldn't think that way just because he's leading in the polls. That doesn't mean anything. At some point Kerry/Edwards were leading in the pole of '04 and b/c so many democrats thought it was "a given" they didn't vote. I'm not a republican, but this is one thing I respect from them: They sure know how to get thier supporters at the polls. I don't know how or what they do, but they don't get let downs. Then again...they always have their lobbyists as a backup plan.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Vote for Ron Paul...


seriously, this election is a joke, I've seen MULTIPLE newscasts on their fucking wardrobe. We're getting closer and closer to big government, pretty soon they'll be telling us what movies we can't watch or games we can't play (sorry Australia) and they'll all be protecting us from ourselves. Obama will most likely get elected and then given praise for everything good that happens even IF it's the result of plans already in place. I don't really like McCain but I REALLY don't like his socialist, rhetoric spewing opponent. I used to be so into politics... I hate them now, probably because voting has less to do with politics then ever before.



Somebody still doesn't understand how our voting process works I see...


While I understand you Despare, for the most part the main reason why nowadays [past 40 yrs or so] that we don't spend time on the issues is because we [the american voters] are far too ignorant and know very little about their government; so when it comes down to voting we decide that "Kennedy's poise and wardrobe is so much better than that over guy so I'll vote for him." This whole thing started in the 60s, I believe. Everyone was into the physical appearance and the small stuff...just like in '97 with Clinton and Lewinsky--we made such a big deal about the affair and impeached him instead of impeaching Bush for his heinous war crimes and deals with foreign oil companies--all of which we are paying the reprocussions for; wheras though Clinton did his thing with her-are economy wasn't in debt--was still booming and regulating--now we're in trillions of dollars of debt. Funny how things have been working as of late isn't it?

[Leprucky Cougar]

Well said, Doc. It isn't always quite so easy to get an opportunity in America.

I somewhat agree on this...which is why I'm double majoring with 2 BAs in Engish and Political Science,--so if I don't be a playwright and writer (or cough teacher) I could use political science in a smooth route to work my way into law school--(which I don't mind at all--I haven't did Forensics for nothing) be an attorney for a while--then run for a political office. This has always been my back up plan; fortunately for me, I love politics just as much as I love writing and speaking to people equally so either career direction would be a plus for me.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

McCain's done...he just keeps driving his campaign further into the ground.

Fine with me - My country elected the wrong guy, but you folks dont have to :)

Sorry, McCain is going to win. It's already been decided. :)

nothing left to do except stand back and watch it all burn.

[Festered]

Soooooooo other people can voice their displeasure with Obama and it's fine. I do it and get labled a Klan member. Well that's typical. :mad: Fuck you.

I am surprised and actually quite pleased that anyone even knows who Ron Paul is. That's who would have gotten my vote and still might.

Oh, I wasn't voicing my displeasure with Obama......:rolleyes:


Ron Paul, I thought you meant ......


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk111/serenacce/rupaul.jpg

[monalisa]

Oh, I wasn't voicing my displeasure with Obama......:rolleyes:


Ron Paul, I thought you meant ......


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk111/serenacce/rupaul.jpg


Well, it's a good thing you weren't voicing your displeasure with Obama, cuz then apparently you'd have to go klannin' with me. :rolleyes: Maybe I took the jokes the wrong way cuz I don't want to be associated with the KKK, they're a bunch of way fucked-up, very scary weirdos (and I don't mean that as a compliment :p )

Now that pic, THAT's hilarious! Thanks, I needed some good humor. :)

[monalisa]

I have to disagree with what was said about welfare.I work for a company that helps people,parents of small children,to get the help they need.We live in a jobless community,there is nothing here.The people we help sign on to welfare programs are usually ashamed.I feel so bad for these people,its not fair.It really pisses me off to go into a business and the person waiting on you looks like they are 15 and does nothing but complain.There are people out there that would give anything for those jobs.So,what i'm trying to say is that i think welfare can help some people better themselves.Where i live they have to work for it,they work just as hard as anyone else.Does it make a difference?I think so!I know there are the so called welfare bums,not here anymore.If you don't work,you don';t get it!


The reason i decided not to vote is because i cannot make up my mind.I only have a few days and i don't see it happening.I think its a waste if i vote for someone i'm not sure i want.Do you guys understand what i'm saying?


Actually, I do understand exactly what you're saying. Although I don't think Obama would be a great leader, I'm not all that fired up about McCain either. I voted for Bush and look what a sorry disappointment he turned out to be. So I may just stay out of it altogether this year too. I don't know. :confused:

[pinkfloyd45769]

Agree with you on the welfare issue Pinky Pinkster Poodlepie

Thanks sweetie;)
@ Nova,i might have read thread wrong..sorry.I don't even remember whose post it was,i just know i read something about it.I have to defend the small amount of people who do deserve it and need it.I am really emotional in my work,i'm not supposed to be..but i am.I see people that go from working a great job and never needing a thing to having to struggle to feed their families.The sad part is,its usually a mother with 2 or 3 kids that the father refuses to support.Fucking low life dads!!Anyway,i was not directing my post at anyone in particular.Nova,you know i would never bash on you lady;)I just get frustrated by the people who DO look down on those receiving welfare.I know there are tons of people who don't need it,times that by 10 and get the number of those who do;)

[Doc Faustus]

First of all, I said nothing to disagree with.
My words never said anything about Welfare, I wasn't even thinking of it.
The lady's husband I was talking about took government insurance and noone over a certain yearly income can get that, so he is one that sees alot of lower income people. I never made any reference to anyone being the derogatory names Doc used in his post. I never would, it's degrading.
There are people that truly struggle, and they are the ones Welfare was created for-to help them along the way.
If you knew anything about me, it would be clear I see people on an even level
and maybe, just maybe not everybody is cut out to be famous.
What's your version of success?
Mine is having good kids.
Mine is my grandfather who worked as a coal miner and when he turned 42 bought his first house and owned it, owned his car and grew a impressive garden in the backyard. He never said a bad word about anybody and always had a smile, a joke and a piece of carmel chews for me.
Was he rich? Not by material means, but I have never met another person as good as he was. He is the reason I do not hate men.
FYI:
Welfare was created to help temporarily
I have a personal experience with it as well.
When my husband lost his job and after 6 months of searching and no new job, we had no income.
We got food stamps and we were disqualified to receive a monthy check because we both owned cars over a $2000 value.
That was the excuse
Not getting into any other details but that was a pretty soul crushing experience.
My mom and me lived in fucking squallor most of my young life, and yet never went on Welfare, instead she worked 3 jobs and went into the Navy and went to college and even though it was slow going, got a Masters in Social Work at age 36. I may have my differences with that women, but that is fucking impressive.




Now, let's see how you all miss the point of this post...;)

My apologies if I seemed abrasive. I take more offense from people who I find to be generally kind and decent being ignorant than I do idiots and am extremely offended whenever people think that an education is the only thing in the way of security in this country. I agree with your vision of success. It's what I want too. I want to have a modest house and raise children. Most authors I know want the same thing. My own grandfather grew up on a mountain in Vermont at a dairy farm and ended up becoming a jet engineer. I'm not sure he could do that today. The man wanted sign in the window and the orphan entrepreneur are gone. I was simply saying it's not as clearcut as just getting the degree. Luck, support and humility have a lot to do with it too, and if one of those things isn't present, intelligent people can fall on their face just as easily as the uneducated. The America game is not so simple as some people want everybody to believe. There are no hard and fast rules. Plenty of stupid, shallow ignorami are rich and plenty of brilliant people are still poor.

[novakru]

I am completely unoffended Doc
There is no easy to anything, in my experience

someone wise just recently told me 'it's how you handle the bad things in life that gets you through it, nothing is impossible unless you let it'.
And I didn't think you were bashing whatsoever Pink, I needed to make sure you or anyone else wasn't reading into what I said other than what was stated..it's all good sweetie!
We all see things in a different light- that doesn't mean I cannot see how incredibly sweet Pink is or how talented Doc is with putting words together.
Just because everybody doesn't agree with me, doesn't mean you are any less that when you DID agree with me.
I hope that can be reciprocal, but not something I expect:cool:
I think reading something is always tainted with our own pre-judgements anyway, you know?
Hence the the wink smilie..

It is the bane of typing letters, If we were all face to face debating, it would be a whole different shabang- I could totally sway you to my way of thinking:D
JK!! I wouldn't wish that for anything, how fucking boring that would be.

We are all coming from completely different backgrounds and life experience.
So we all something to add and I have seen alot of different points of view here and come to see things a little better for it.
I mean Rayne alone has changed my life:) Things I thought were devestating became just a new situation to look FORWARD to.




@Lep, you get more and more interesting my lil dear.
You need to stay at horror so everybody can see you change the world.:cool:

[monster123]

WTF?!?!?! It's not a shoe-in. All of the people who think that, probably won't vote and that's how he'll end up losing. I so f***ing wish people wouldn't think that way just because he's leading in the polls. That doesn't mean anything. At some point Kerry/Edwards were leading in the pole of '04 and b/c so many democrats thought it was "a given" they didn't vote. I'm not a republican, but this is one thing I respect from them: They sure know how to get thier supporters at the polls. I don't know how or what they do, but they don't get let downs. Then again...they always have their lobbyists as a backup plan.

Hes a shoe-in ;).

[monster123]

First he does not have enough experience to lead this country. Second, I truly believe he would not represent all Americans. Third he is anti America, he has demonstrated this by his support of the anti American church he has attended for the past 20+ years. Fourth, he continues to support the reverend White who is blatantly racist, anti American, and a despicable individual; especially for a reverend. Last, his wife is also racist and totally anti American. I just dont like him.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Hes a shoe-in ;).

I doubt it-seriously. It's closer than u think. Some thought Kerry/Edwards was a shoe-in and they were all proven wrong

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

First he does not have enough experience to lead this country. Second, I truly believe he would not represent all Americans. Third he is anti America, he has demonstrated this by his support of the anti American church he has attended for the past 20+ years. Fourth, he continues to support the reverend White who is blatantly racist, anti American, and a despicable individual; especially for a reverend. Last, his wife is also racist and totally anti American. I just dont like him.

LOL.......

[monster123]

LOL.......

We'll see who's laughing when our taxes are raised so high we loose our homes.

[Despare]

I'm not a huge fan of Obama either but when it comes to experience he's not that bad. Lincoln only served one term in congress...

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

We'll see who's laughing when our taxes are raised so high we loose our homes.

like I said in my last post, obama will not be president.

also don't worry about your homes, you have no idea how close you are to losing your country.

[monster123]

I'm not a huge fan of Obama either but when it comes to experience he's not that bad. Lincoln only served one term in congress...

Lincoln wasnt all that good of a man either.

[Despare]

also don't worry about your homes, you have no idea how close you are to losing your country.

That's a ridiculous statement, propaganda from the Queen?

[monster123]

That's a ridiculous statement, propaganda from the Queen?

I agree! murder doll you probably dont even know what going on in the world your just talking out your ass. Sorry to be mean but its true.

[Doc Faustus]

You might want to read this in regards to taxes:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1031268,CST-NWS-tax30.article
Unless you make 250,000 or more, Obama is not raising your taxes. Nor is he going to fine people based on healthcare choices. He said it pointblank during the debate. Watch these things, read things, don't just listen to what Mc Cain says. Was Bush completely trustworthy? Did anybody find WMDs in Iraq or a link to Al Qaeda, which operates out of Afghanistan and Pakistan primarily? Going to war with Iraq to get Al Qaeda is like trying to trash the Louvre by bombing Germany.

[monster123]

You might want to read this in regards to taxes:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1031268,CST-NWS-tax30.article
Unless you make 250,000 or more, Obama is not raising your taxes. Nor is he going to fine people based on healthcare choices. He said it pointblank during the debate. Watch these things, read things, don't just listen to what Mc Cain says. Was Bush completely trustworthy? Did anybody find WMDs in Iraq or a link to Al Qaeda, which operates out of Afghanistan and Pakistan primarily? Going to war with Iraq to get Al Qaeda is like trying to trash the Louvre by bombing Germany.

So he's raising taxes on the poor? Nice guy lol

[Doc Faustus]

No. Taxes are raised for RICH people. Those making $250,000 or more. If you make 250 grand, you are not poor.

[monster123]

No. Taxes are raised for RICH people. Those making $250,000 or more. If you make 250 grand, you are not poor.

Maybe i just read it wrong. Anyway you look at it thought taxes are high enough. So I mean now if you make a good living you have to pay more taxes its like whats the point of working hard for a living?

[Despare]

Did anybody find WMDs...?

Actually, they did find some uranium and also some physical components that could have been used to make dirty bombs and while they're no WMDs, they could have done a lot of damage. Anyway, Iraq WAS the wrong PRIMARY target but I strongly believe that if we quickly pull all middle Eastern occupancy we will be attacked again. Al Qaeda was not destroyed (thanks to the administration being too focused on Saddam) and is still a threat, if we do pull out of the Middle East we better strengthen our borders.

[Leprucky Cougar]

It is the bane of typing letters, If we were all face to face debating, it would be a whole different shabang- I could totally sway you to my way of thinking:D
JK!! I wouldn't wish that for anything, how fucking boring that would be.

I don't know nova--ur a great person...but I've did forensics my whole high school career and still considering it now--even nationally ranked--so don't know if u could sway my way of thinking. lol :D




We are all coming from completely different backgrounds and life experience.
So we all something to add and I have seen alot of different points of view here and come to see things a little better for it.
I mean Rayne alone has changed my life:) Things I thought were devestating became just a new situation to look FORWARD to.


Exactly. Initially we are all naturally misunderstood because of everyone's psyche of childhood. We were all raised differently and from generations. Whether we know it or not, or agree or disagree with some of the ways we were brought up--it inadvertingly has a way of influencing our moral standings on issues that pertain to us and leaders. As we get older it perhaps may vanish from ur outlook on life, but u don't forget completely. Ususally ur mind is made up around 40--and for those that differ from you u would acknowledge their points--maybe compromise even--but the probability of you going from head to tails in a nano second isn't as high. But you do definitely broaden your scale of knowledgeable spectrum. Understand what I'm saying?[/QUOTE]



@Lep, you get more and more interesting my lil dear.
You need to stay at horror so everybody can see you change the world.:cool:

Thanks...but only if u guys want me to do so. And as much as I believe I can change the world--if it happens that I don't : "I'm not saying that I'll change the world. But I gurantee I will spark the brain who will change the world. " Tupac [2Pac] Amaru Shakur.

[Doc Faustus]

Maybe i just read it wrong. Anyway you look at it thought taxes are high enough. So I mean now if you make a good living you have to pay more taxes its like whats the point of working hard for a living?

He's also offering a 500 dollar tax credit for middle class families. He's only raising taxes for the rich. If you have more, you should give a little more. It doesn't mean you'll have nothing left. Some of the extra tax money he plans on getting for example, will be through raising estate taxes on estates bigger than 3.5 million dollars. I believe most people can live on a mere 2 million in inheritance. Maybe you can't goldplate your Aston Martin but you'll make due.

[Leprucky Cougar]

LOL.......

What a bunch of propaganda, generalizations and fallacies.

[Doc Faustus]

Actually, they did find some uranium and also some physical components that could have been used to make dirty bombs and while they're no WMDs, they could have done a lot of damage. Anyway, Iraq WAS the wrong PRIMARY target but I strongly believe that if we quickly pull all middle Eastern occupancy we will be attacked again. Al Qaeda was not destroyed (thanks to the administration being too focused on Saddam) and is still a threat, if we do pull out of the Middle East we better strengthen our borders.

We could do so by getting to the root of the problem and no longer palling around with Pakistan or putting more effort into Afghanistan, though it is tragically oil free.

[Leprucky Cougar]

He's also offering a 500 dollar tax credit for middle class families. He's only raising taxes for the rich. If you have more, you should give a little more. It doesn't mean you'll have nothing left. Some of the extra tax money he plans on getting for example, will be through raising estate taxes on estates bigger than 3.5 million dollars. I believe most people can live on a mere 2 million in inheritance. Maybe you can't goldplate your Aston Martin but you'll make due.

Same here....if ur making X amonts of trillions of dollars...does it really make a difference if some of ur billions are taxed? It's a rich/rich situation.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

I agree! murder doll you probably dont even know what going on in the world your just talking out your ass. Sorry to be mean but its true.

HAHA I have no idea what's going on in the world?

you're trying to kill terrorism, do you know how stupid that is? the war on terrorism LOL

do you have any idea on how raising oil prices is going to effect you? you're going bankrupt.

you're going to be a very desperate country in 5-10 years and probably go to war with iran to try and boost your economy. yee hay, get your boots and gun ready!

if you've eaten up enough bullshit from the media to think obama and his wife are unamerican, I already know how smart you are. How are they unamerican? because they aren't poor and uneducated? LOL


btw if all you can do is call me stupid without refuting anything, you probably shouldn't waste space on the site.

[monster123]

HAHA I have no idea what's going on in the world?

you're trying to kill terrorism, do you know how stupid that is? the war on terrorism LOL

do you have any idea on how raising oil prices is going to effect you? you're going bankrupt.

you're going to be a very desperate country in 5-10 years and probably go to war with iran to try and boost your economy. yee hay, get your boots and gun ready!

if you've eaten up enough bullshit from the media to think obama and his wife are unamerican, I already know how smart you are. How are they unamerican? because they aren't poor and uneducated? LOL


btw if all you can do is call me stupid without refuting anything, you probably shouldn't waste space on the site.


http://i37.tinypic.com/x2ozsw.jpg

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

http://i37.tinypic.com/x2ozsw.jpg

waste of space.

Do the whole world a favor and abort that fetus, hun.

[monster123]

waste of space.

Do the whole a favor and abort that fetus, hun.

Such a childish remark. To bad your words dont hurt me :)

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

Such a childish remark. To bad your words dont hurt me :)

no I'm not kidding.

We really don't need any more welfare warriors around.

[Festered]

Do the whole a favor .....


http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk111/serenacce/ron-jeremy.jpg

[monster123]

no I'm not kidding.

We really don't need any more welfare warriors around.

http://i37.tinypic.com/x2ozsw.jpg

Grow up :)

[Leprucky Cougar]

HAHA I have no idea what's going on in the world?

you're trying to kill terrorism, do you know how stupid that is? the war on terrorism LOL

do you have any idea on how raising oil prices is going to effect you? you're going bankrupt.

you're going to be a very desperate country in 5-10 years and probably go to war with iran to try and boost your economy. yee hay, get your boots and gun ready!

if you've eaten up enough bullshit from the media to think obama and his wife are unamerican, I already know how smart you are. How are they unamerican? because they aren't poor and uneducated? LOL


btw if all you can do is call me stupid without refuting anything, you probably shouldn't waste space on the site.


I agree. I love debating and have no problem with it. But if you think refutation is about non-sensical fallacies and generalizations--not even concise arguments, then there's no point.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

http://i37.tinypic.com/x2ozsw.jpg

Grow up :)

you have to think about the rest of the world to you know. even though that can be hard, when you have your head so far up your ass that you have shit for brains.


besides come on, I hear abortion can be fun.

It brings out the little kid in you.

[Leprucky Cougar]

http://i37.tinypic.com/x2ozsw.jpg

Grow up :)

I'm pretty sure they are....you on the other hand, it's out in the open. No offense, but at least in terms of intellecually stimulated and consistent to the topic that is. :cool:

[Despare]

do you have any idea on how raising oil prices is going to effect you? you're going bankrupt.



I'm not going bankrupt, I have a Costco membership so gas is cheaper for me. :)

Besides, when I went to Canada it was a LOT more expensive for gas and I've been told Europe is worse. I don't think war on terror in itself is a bad idea, the execution was just piss poor, especially toward the end(?).



besides come on, I hear abortion can be fun.

It brings out the little kid in you.

Hahaha, good stuff. :D

[monster123]

you have to think about the rest of the world to you know. even though that can be hard, when you have your head so far up your ass that you have shit for brains.


besides come on, I hear abortion can be fun.

It brings out the little kid in you.

HAHAHAHAHA you think your insulting me but your not. Infact im sitting here laughing at you because you retaliate by insulting me and my unborn child? Then you call yourself mature?? Im alittle confused right now if a picture of a clown saying oh snap makes you that mad then i guess you still must be in diapers. (did da wittle clown scare you?)

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

I agree. I love debating and have no problem with it.

you obviously do because I haven't heard an argument from you yet. Why is america so invincible, huh? enlighten me. :)

[Leprucky Cougar]

you have to think about the rest of the world to you know. even though that can be hard, when you have your head so far up your ass that you have shit for brains.


besides come on, I hear abortion can be fun.

It brings out the little kid in you.

That pun was priceless, md ! :)

And seriously, I agree. The greatest good for the greatest number---think of it from utilitarianism ethics perspective.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

I'm not going bankrupt, I have a Costco membership so gas is cheaper for me. :)

Besides, when I went to Canada it was a LOT more expensive for gas and I've been told Europe is worse. I don't think war on terror in itself is a bad idea, the execution was just piss poor, especially toward the end(?).




Hahaha, good stuff. :D

YESSS! finally an argument. :)

The war on terror is a war you can't win though, it's not like going to war with a country you're invading. They're busy killing "suspected" terrorists right now, but that's only the top level there will always be more to take their place. Only know did the US open up talks with the Taliban, it took this long but I think they probably figured out they can't win this the old fashioned way.

[Despare]

YESSS! finally an argument. :)

The war on terror is a war you can't win though, it's not like going to war with a country you're invading. They're busy killing "suspected" terrorists right now, but that's only the top level there will always be more to take their place. Only know did the US open up talks with the Taliban, it took this long but I think they probably figured out they can't win this the old fashioned way.

You'll always get an argument from me. :)




It's too late now but to really end it focusing on the KNOWN terrorist cells and being less... understanding... would have been the best way to go. Talks won't work over the long haul, and I'm tired of hearing about how war is pointless, seriously. War is a horrible thing and a lot of people suffer when they shouldn't have to but without it we would all be in some serious trouble. We just needed to strike harder, faster, and not get distracted. Sometimes you have to kill a few hundred innocent people to make an omelet.

[Leprucky Cougar]

YESSS! finally an argument. :)

The war on terror is a war you can't win though, it's not like going to war with a country you're invading. They're busy killing "suspected" terrorists right now, but that's only the top level there will always be more to take their place. Only know did the US open up talks with the Taliban, it took this long but I think they probably figured out they can't win this the old fashioned way.

And it would've be even easier to when if we had a president who sincerely cared about ending the war on terror--not using as a cover up for invading a country we [USA] had no clear reason to be with. If we had a clear leader who didn't put tons and tons of his country's bravest men and women in uniform to combat his own personal interests with he and his daddy's oil companies--and he and daddy's personal interests of spreading United States imperialism across the world--then maybe it would've or should've for that matter ended years ago. Seriously, as strong as the U.S's military is we could've ended this war forever ago; but because Bush may speak in a very ignorant manner--he's no fool--he knew exactly what he wanted--prolonging this war as long as he could to settle his corporate feud--he and his father had and cease ties with business partners--using every unlikely event (including tradegies) as a means to distract his fellow country men and women from disagreeing on his philosophy of putting self before others.

Damn Republicans. :cool:

[Leprucky Cougar]

You'll always get an argument from me. :)




War is a horrible thing and a lot of people suffer when they shouldn't have to but without it we would all be in some serious trouble. We just needed to strike harder, faster, and not get distracted. Sometimes you have to kill a few hundred innocent people to make an omelet.


Again more or less the Utilitarianism philosophy (greatest good for the greatest number--utilizing the best methods to maximize the most pleasure you can over potential pain)

[Kemal]

Terror is an emotion, terrorism is a tactic. "War on terror/terrorism" is a metaphor. The people making policy know that. The point is not to eradicate either, but to make terrorism so difficult to carry out against the U.S. that catastrophic terrorism(i.e. 9/11) is effectively impossible. This was never going to be a war waged only militarily - that was said at the outset. We threw the Taliban out of power through a combination of military action and political maneuvering with the various factions in Afghanistan. We also managed to keep Karzai in power through diplomacy and luck, NOT simply by becoming his enforcer.

As it stands, we have a mostly democratic government in Afghanistan and a pro-Western leader there. Al Qaeda has not been able to strike the U.S. directly, though it has struck our allies. Osama remains at large but is his ability to carry out attacks seems greatly diminished. The Taliban is resurgent and this will be a challenge in the coming years.

[Angelakillsluts]

I feel bad for laughing at the abortion joke. :( :( :(

and I agree with kemal, I also think Osama is very ill/or dead.

[monster123]

[QUOTE=Angelakillsluts;751509]I feel bad for laughing at the abortion joke. :( :( :(



Well to some people abortions funny i guess:mad:

[Leprucky Cougar]

[QUOTE=Angelakillsluts;751509]I feel bad for laughing at the abortion joke. :( :( :(



Well to some people abortions funny i guess:mad:

It's not that it's funny--the joke was

[monster123]

[QUOTE=monster123;751704]

It's not that it's funny--the joke was

:confused: :confused:

[La Chat Noire]

I don't necessarily think abortions are funny, but her pun was so clever I couldn't help but smile a little...if that makes me awful so be it.

[Festered]

[quote=monster123;751704]

It's not that it's funny--the joke was

Yea, what she said...

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk111/serenacce/Project2-1.jpg

[monster123]

I don't necessarily think abortions are funny, but her pun was so clever I couldn't help but smile a little...if that makes me awful so be it.

Wtf what pun am i missing something i dont remember reading a hilarious pun?

[Leprucky Cougar]

I don't necessarily think abortions are funny, but her pun was so clever I couldn't help but smile a little...if that makes me awful so be it.

Likewise for me

[pinkfloyd45769]

I'm sorry,i think its really not funny.Abortion is so sad and i cannot see humor in it.Sorry if i make anyone mad by saying this...i feel for monster,if someone said that to me i would go straight the fuck off.

[monster123]

I'm sorry,i think its really not funny.Abortion is so sad and i cannot see humor in it.Sorry if i make anyone mad by saying this...i feel for monster,if someone said that to me i would go straight the fuck off.

OMAN finally! Thank you for seeing it my way :). You truelly are a great person!

[pinkfloyd45769]

I know i might catch hell for it,but i could careless.I hate abortions more than anything in this world.Sorry that was said to you:)

[monster123]

I know i might catch hell for it,but i could careless.I hate abortions more than anything in this world.Sorry that was said to you:)

You dont need to be sorry for their childish remarks, it makes me happy someone has enough sense to say "hey thats not funny!" :)

[pinkfloyd45769]

Anytime:)If i don't like something i'm not afraid to say it!!

[monster123]

Anytime:)If i don't like something i'm not afraid to say it!!

Did i mention your awesome? :D

[ferretchucker]

How can you beat Terrorism? You can't. There are always going to be those out there that are full of hate and will act on it. You have to defend yourself and be careful but a war was the complete wrong way to go about. Just another chance for the USA to police the world. And our government was retarded enough to get involved. What has it got us? MORE TERRORISTS! They're more pissed off now than they've ever been! Pull the troops out, sit down and talk. It worked with Carter when he got Egypt and Israel to just sit, talk and work things out.

About the abortions - I'm pro choice. I think certain circumstances it can be ok. Such as a Rape victim who is poor and wouldn't be able to give the baby a good life. It's not a pleasant thing but it is sometimes acceptable. I wouldn't want a girl I got pregnant to get an abortion,but she's the one who has to carry it around for 9 months so it's mainly down to her. As for the joke, it was a clever pun.

[Despare]

How can you beat Terrorism? You can't. There are always going to be those out there that are full of hate and will act on it. You have to defend yourself and be careful but a war was the complete wrong way to go about. Just another chance for the USA to police the world. And our government was retarded enough to get involved. What has it got us? MORE TERRORISTS! They're more pissed off now than they've ever been! Pull the troops out, sit down and talk. It worked with Carter when he got Egypt and Israel to just sit, talk and work things out.

About the abortions - I'm pro choice. I think certain circumstances it can be ok. Such as a Rape victim who is poor and wouldn't be able to give the baby a good life. It's not a pleasant thing but it is sometimes acceptable. I wouldn't want a girl I got pregnant to get an abortion,but she's the one who has to carry it around for 9 months so it's mainly down to her. As for the joke, it was a clever pun.

So you think it's possible to reason with people who want to destroy your nation and are willing to kill themselves and their families just to strike a blow against you? If it "works" you really think that it will stay that way through the long haul? Ah well, let's hope somebody finds a way to stop it no matter what it takes.

As for abortions in rape cases, it's VERY unlikely for a woman to get pregnant from rape due to the amount of stress caused to the body among other things.

[ferretchucker]

So you think it's possible to reason with people who want to destroy your nation and are willing to kill themselves and their families just to strike a blow against you? If it "works" you really think that it will stay that way through the long haul? Ah well, let's hope somebody finds a way to stop it no matter what it takes.

As for abortions in rape cases, it's VERY unlikely for a woman to get pregnant from rape due to the amount of stress caused to the body among other things.

There will always be those who won't be reasoned with. War won't change that. But, you can cut down on them by finding out what it is they want, coming to compromises that please both sides. But look at it from some of their points of view. Take Iraq. We went into their country looking for imaginary weapons of mass destruction and we turned things upside down! Their barely back on their feet now. Imagine someone like Russia had done that to America! Came in looking for something they never found, killed your leader and some of your closest friends and family! You'd want revenge.

But then, if some smart leader came to power, sat down, spoke with your country about changing things to make your way of life better, you would be grateful and willing to listen. I know I would, and so would many others.


As for children of rape, it is unlikely, but it does happen. I recently learned that one of my closest friends mother was raped several years ago and got pregnant with a girl, but aborted it because it was straining things with her and her husband and it was all too much to bare.

[bloodrayne]

But, you can cut down on them by finding out what it is they want, coming to compromises that please both sides.
What they want is to KILL US because we don't share the same religious views that they do

So, the 'compromise' would be that we allow them to kill us, or we all decide to convert to the religious views of some insane extremists

Neither of those options that would please THEM, will work for us...I can't imagine how TALKING to them could help when we will NEVER say what they want to hear...So, there will be conflict


I believe that with the passage of years, people have forgotten that we TRIED to 'talk' to Sadam...He refused to comply with UN inspectors for years, they looked the other way, allowing him to do whatever he wanted while stealing UN aid from his people (aid that he shouldn't have been receiving because he wasn't keeping his end of the deal), and killing his people...We gave him MONTHS to let the UN inspectors in...He refused...We warned him for WEEKS that we were serious, and that we WOULD attack...We even gave him the date and the hour!...He STILL refused...If he had nothing to hide, why not let the inspectors in?

Talking did nothing.

[Hilti88NYC]

Fuck politics and politiians.Its all bullshit all the people are full of shit etc....Glad you had fun!

[monster123]

Fuck politics and politiians.Its all bullshit all the people are full of shit etc....Glad you had fun!

Uhm that was a opinion that didnt need to be shared..

[bloodrayne]

Uhm that was a opinion that didnt need to be shared..

All opinions are welcome, even those that are negative or oppose our own...As long as people aren't fighting here, it's all good

Feel free to speak your mind :)

[monster123]

All opinions are welcome, even those that are negative or oppose our own...As long as people aren't fighting here, it's all good

Feel free to speak your mind :)

Your right I apologize Hilti88NYC. Speak your mind :)

[heebiejeebies]

I somewhat agree on this...which is why I'm double majoring with 2 BAs in Engish and Political Science,--so if I don't be a playwright and writer (or cough teacher) I could use political science in a smooth route to work my way into law school--(which I don't mind at all--I haven't did Forensics for nothing) be an attorney for a while--then run for a political office. This has always been my back up plan; fortunately for me, I love politics just as much as I love writing and speaking to people equally so either career direction would be a plus for me.

You are majoring in English and write like this? I worry for your students (if you become a teacher) or your clients (if you become a lawyer) or your constituents (if you become a politician).

Sorry to be so nitpicky, but I am one of those teachers who you seem to regard so poorly. (COUGH, COUGH, COUGH:mad:)

[ferretchucker]

What they want is to KILL US because we don't share the same religious views that they do

So, the 'compromise' would be that we allow them to kill us, or we all decide to convert to the religious views of some insane extremists

Neither of those options that would please THEM, will work for us...I can't imagine how TALKING to them could help when we will NEVER say what they want to hear...So, there will be conflict


I believe that with the passage of years, people have forgotten that we TRIED to 'talk' to Sadam...He refused to comply with UN inspectors for years, they looked the other way, allowing him to do whatever he wanted while stealing UN aid from his people (aid that he shouldn't have been receiving because he wasn't keeping his end of the deal), and killing his people...We gave him MONTHS to let the UN inspectors in...He refused...We warned him for WEEKS that we were serious, and that we WOULD attack...We even gave him the date and the hour!...He STILL refused...If he had nothing to hide, why not let the inspectors in?

Talking did nothing.


But my point is, has war done any better? Look how it's left Iraq. They were better off under Saddam! Think how many innocent people our soldiers have killed! Our bombs, our guns. I'm pretty sure, after all the pain that they've suffered, talking and working things out without explosions and bullets would be a breath of fresh air to them.

Talking doesn't hurt anybody, and that's it's benefit. You sit the extremists down and there is always something that can benefit both sides. ALWAYS.

And I find it funny how people talk about how the extremist terrorists ruin lives, kill innocent people for having different views on the world. That, of course, is completely different from what our soldiers have been told to do i suppose? Well, there's that reason, and oil. The greed of our already wealthy nations never ceases to amaze me.

[Leprucky Cougar]

You are majoring in English and write like this? I worry for your students (if you become a teacher) or your clients (if you become a lawyer) or your constituents (if you become a politician).

Sorry to be so nitpicky, but I am one of those teachers who you seem to regard so poorly. (COUGH, COUGH, COUGH:mad:)

Yeah but this is a forum, not an actual paper or a significant assignment, so naturally I would write like like this. And the teacher thing is highly unlikely for me--I'm not big on kids. Although I give a TREMENDOUS amount of respect and praise for teachers--they deserve far more recognition and pay than what there currently getting. They and parents are the carving tools that mold the bright minds of the future. Assuming I would become a politician I would want Education reform to be one of the goals on my political agenda.

[illdojo]

Talking doesn't hurt anybody, and that's it's benefit. You sit the extremists down and there is always something that can benefit both sides. ALWAYS.


No offence Kid, but you are soooo naive. :rolleyes:

[monster123]

No offence Kid, but you are soooo naive. :rolleyes:

No he's not he's right. Fighting isnt always the answer.

[illdojo]

No he's not he's right. Fighting isnt always the answer.

Yeah...umm... I didn't say that, new jack.

[monster123]

Yeah...umm... I didn't say that, new jack.

New jack?:confused:

[illdojo]

New jack?:confused:

I stole it from Dolly... It's means a n00b, genius. :D

[monster123]

I stole it from Dolly... It's means a n00b, genius. :D

Oh lol my bad. Well i guess this here new jack wont stick her nose in you n his business :D

[illdojo]

Oh lol my bad. Well i guess this here new jack wont stick her nose in you n his business :D

No worries. I'm just a big smart ass. FC knows that I mean well.

[ferretchucker]

Sorry, couldn't hear that last post Illdojo, I was just cutting my self from the anguish your other post caused me. :p

[monster123]

No worries. I'm just a big smart ass. FC knows that I mean well.

I figured sometimes i just react without reading or thinking. Carry on with your discussion :)

[illdojo]

Sorry, couldn't hear that last post Illdojo, I was just cutting my self from the anguish your other post caused me. :p

:D ....................................

[ferretchucker]

I just realized that I've been around longer than you! Wow. You always seemed like one of the senior members. I feel special now. Good special, not...well. You know.

[The Flayed One]

Talking to others is a good thing. You just need the right person to be able to talk to everyone. There is a huge difference between the voice of reason and the voice of absolute incontestability. Talking and trying to understand are two completely different creatures. There's a wisdom to the phrase 'To see through a glass, darkly.'

There is an uncomforting fact that we support war, whether we like it or not, because our tax dollars pay for it. The minute any countries military kills an innocent person for what they deem the greater good of humanity makes us all murderers. Whether or not you believe that you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, I personally find that to be deeply disturbing. Then again, that's my own personal feelings.

I now end my broadcast of hippy, whiny liberalism. Carry on:p

[Leprucky Cougar]

Talking to others is a good thing. You just need the right person to be able to talk to everyone. There is a huge difference between the voice of reason and the voice of absolute incontestability. Talking and trying to understand are two completely different creatures. There's a wisdom to the phrase 'To see through a glass, darkly.'

There is an uncomforting fact that we support war, whether we like it or not, because our tax dollars pay for it. The minute any countries military kills an innocent person for what they deem the greater good of humanity makes us all murderers. Whether or not you believe that you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, I personally find that to be deeply disturbing. Then again, that's my own personal feelings.

I now end my broadcast of hippy, whiny liberalism. Carry on:p

Nicely said Flayed. And might I add-we should never negoitate out of fear; but also, we should never be afraid to negoitate.

[ferretchucker]

Nicely said Flayed. And might I add-we should never negoitate out of fear; but also, we should never be afraid to negoitate.

Oooh. I like that last sentence. Very good.


Today's the big day. Let's hope the better man wins...







And that John McCain doesn't.

[Despare]

Talking to others is a good thing. You just need the right person to be able to talk to everyone. There is a huge difference between the voice of reason and the voice of absolute incontestability. Talking and trying to understand are two completely different creatures. There's a wisdom to the phrase 'To see through a glass, darkly.'

There is an uncomforting fact that we support war, whether we like it or not, because our tax dollars pay for it. The minute any countries military kills an innocent person for what they deem the greater good of humanity makes us all murderers. Whether or not you believe that you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette, I personally find that to be deeply disturbing. Then again, that's my own personal feelings.

I now end my broadcast of hippy, whiny liberalism. Carry on:p

I'm not all for simply bombing everybody but you can't be so naive as to think that talking ALWAYS works. There has to be a middle ground. You have to entertain talks and EXPECT THEM TO WORK but if they don't then you have to be willing to fight.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Oooh. I like that last sentence. Very good.


Today's the big day. Let's hope the better man wins...







And that John McCain doesn't.

Very nice-your last comment.

and that sentence you like that said--was said by Obama in one of his speeches--and debates. I 4 got the quotes---forgive me. But anyone who follows Obama as extensively as me knows that's where it originates.

[Zero]

well - i don't mean to get into politics again (that rarely works out around here) - but i think its a bit simple to say that even islamic extremists 'hate us because we have a different religion' - that may be part of it but i think americans have to admit that over the past several decades we have been involved with numerous brutally repressive regimes in the middle east - we have sent troops into their countries. i'm not saying (to be clear) that the US has deserved any terrorist attacks -but on the other hand we can't say that the US has been nothing but benevolent to the middle east. it just isn't that simple.

obama may be able to re-establish a constructive conversation between the US, Iran, Palestine and Israel (and others). and here it is worth recalling that Clinton was working desperately to work with the Israelis and Palestinians to get some path to peace but then when GWB came into office he basically ignored the problem until after 9/11 when it all just got more violent and dangerous.

'nuff said - i'll go back to mindless quips and monkey jokes

[hellfire1]

well - i don't mean to get into politics again (that rarely works out around here) - but i think its a bit simple to say that even islamic extremists 'hate us because we have a different religion' - that may be part of it but i think americans have to admit that over the past several decades we have been involved with numerous brutally repressive regimes in the middle east - we have sent troops into their countries. i'm not saying (to be clear) that the US has deserved any terrorist attacks -but on the other hand we can't say that the US has been nothing but benevolent to the middle east. it just isn't that simple.

obama may be able to re-establish a constructive conversation between the US, Iran, Palestine and Israel (and others). and here it is worth recalling that Clinton was working desperately to work with the Israelis and Palestinians to get some path to peace but then when GWB came into office he basically ignored the problem until after 9/11 when it all just got more violent and dangerous.

'nuff said - i'll go back to mindless quips and monkey jokes




Well said, monkey, and agreed completely.

The US is targeted by Islamic extremists mostly because these people believe that eradicating the US will mean the end of globalization and American dominance in the world. Not everyone is happy to see our "culture" exported into their countries and enforced. And by "culture", I don't mean democracy, but our very way of life. Anyway, just my thoughts, and now I too will go on to not caring what goes on around here. :p