Prezzie Debates

[Zero]

ok - watching second obama - mccain debate and i must say - i cannot imagine how anyone in their right mind could consider voting for mccain. i have never heard such cliches in my life . . .everything is 'my friends' this and 'my friends' that. also - mccain can't give any examples of what he would do - just try to criticize obama. . . i fear for this country and the world if they put that dottering old fart in the white house

[Leprucky Cougar]

Exactly!

McCain tonight on taxes:

"Well Tom, tax increases, are increases on taxes. And this isn't an easy issue. It's something we all can go sit at the table and fix."

McCain on Foreign Policy, Afghanistan

"Obama doesn't act repsonisbly..He talks softly..let me tell you about my idol, a great man by the name of Ronald Reagon; You know Tom, my great idol, my hero, President Teddy Roosevelt had this "Big Stick" Policy, and that's what I intend to have this presodency; unlike my colleague Obama I'll speak softly and carry a "Big Stick," and in doing so will have the troops in Afghanistan leave in victory not defeat in a McCain Administration. We are indeed the greatest country, with the best military on Earth, I assure you...."

then he rambles on about Russia


I Want every one to "Barrack and Roll" on November 4th

-Shannon

[illdojo]

They're both worthless....We're all fucked.
I'm wasting my vote on Ron Paul. :rolleyes:

[Disease]

My main insight into your American Politics is the Daily show with John Stewart....

I can't see much in the McCaian campaighn from that..

The thing is, after reading stupid white men recently, how likely would Obama be to win no matter what.

[Disease]

They're both worthless....We're all fucked.
I'm wasting my vote on Ron Paul. :rolleyes:

The worst thing you can do is waste a vote, especially since you don't have to vote, at least vote for the least fucked...

[Freak]

The worst thing you can do is waste a vote, especially since you don't have to vote, at least vote for the least fucked...


Couldn't agree more.If McCain gets into the office we will be even more screwed than with Bush in office.I'm voting for Obama.I think he will bring the change that is needed and he hits on alot of things that are important to me.McCain and Palin just give alot of run around bull and never give a real well thought out answer.

[MisterSadistro]

It doesn't matter what the question is, McCain's answers all seem to be that somebody else "doesn't understand" as an answer. OK, that's fine if someone doesn't, but why not EXPLAIN it in a responsive answer to the questions posed to you ? I sure don't mean like that idiot you chose as a running mate who always addresses people as if she were talking to kindergarten children (even though I think she is clueless and doesn't answer anything herself).
I see McCain as another W - screwing off in his younger years, living off daddy's prestige and family money until it's time to get a job and all the strings are there to pull for them to enter politics. Only difference is McCain actually did do military time and drags that hero label out constantly to show what a great American he is. I'd say a single mom working 3 jobs to keep a roof over her and her kids' heads in this current economic mess is more of a hero. It is unfortunate McCain spent time in a POW camp many years ago, but it just doesn't answer what he plans to do tomorrow and telling me as a voter that I "don't understand" doesn't make it any clearer. I don't think there are any answers or plan. "Just hang in there and you'll see" doesn't cut it for me and a lot of people.
Shame on W and company for stealing the election in 2000. Shame on us for letting them do it again in 2004. Make a difference this time and don't let them get away with it ever again. Vote.

[Zero]

agreed- i thought mccain was starting to talk to us all like we were idiots or toddlers. every time he said "my friends" i thought he was really saying 'boys and girls.' in fact, i realized if you had a 'debate drinking game' and the key word for mccain was 'my friends' -you'd be hammered by the second question.

[Vodstok]

The worst thing you can do is waste a vote, especially since you don't have to vote, at least vote for the least fucked...
its not a wasted vote. I actually voted for mccain back in 2000 because he was better than bush and gore (at the time...) and didnt stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Its not a wasted vote, its a political statement.



For the record, so is not voting. Purposely not going and voting is a statement, not voting because you forgot is stupid, because odds are you wanted to vote for somebody but didnt.

[hammerfan]

Couldn't agree more.If McCain gets into the office we will be even more screwed than with Bush in office.I'm voting for Obama.I think he will bring the change that is needed and he hits on alot of things that are important to me.McCain and Palin just give alot of run around bull and never give a real well thought out answer.


I completely agree. I'm voting for Obama, too. Palin scares the shit out of me - especially since there's a very real possibility that SHE could end up as president! McCain doesn't look too healthy to me. Plus, there's no way in hell that I'm going to vote for someone that wants to take away my right to decide what to do with MY body!

[ChronoGrl]

I missed the debate last night - I'll have to tune in to NPR to get the highlights.

I saw their FIRST debate, however, and I have to say that it terrified the HELL out of me - I had gone into it assuming that McCain would go down in flames. But the fact of the matter is that he was horrifyingly eloquent (even if the was full of shit... What SCARES me is that the average American is too dumb to KNOW when he's full of shit).

The average American doesn't seem to know the difference between actual answers and gross jingoistic generalizations made to galvanize "patriotic Americans."

I shudder for this election. I truly do. :(

[Vodstok]

Its kind of funny, here we are less than a month away from the elections, everyone here, for themost part, seems to be on Obama's side if for no other reaason than Mccain seems to be "more of the same" crap we have dealt with for nearly a decade, which is funny since I predicted after Kerry lost that whoever ran as a democrat in '08 was going to be a shoo-in, and oddly I'm reminded of something Rod posted a while back, which turned out to be absolutely true:

Republicans in office, especially during a war, are great for the horror genre. think about it, there have been some really great horror movies come out in the past few years. Between the two of them, they create the perfect real-world paranoia and mood for both inspiring horror and putting people in the mood for it.

That said, I'll gladly take another slew of pathetic Japanese rip-offs if it will get the economy back in line and get me a house and the ability to not spend half my paycheck to live indoors...

[Leprucky Cougar]

They're both worthless....We're all fucked.
I'm wasting my vote on Ron Paul. :rolleyes:

What about Ralph Nader...he seems to be an option to. But he wasn't invited to the debates.

[Vodstok]

What about Ralph Nader...he seems to be an option to. But he wasn't invited to the debates.
I have a feeling these days they just chuckle and pat him on the head when he runs.

As far as Ron Paul... I have mostly Liberterian beleiefs, and tend to side with the Trey and Matt from South Park on most things (they are both vocal Liberterians), but the Liberterian candidates always SUCK. I have wiped Ron Paul from my mind , but i do remember thinking he was an idiot.

[ferretchucker]

I think people should vote considering people literally gave their lives so we could have the priveledge.

But McCain! Really. What are the Republicans playing at? The best candidate they could find, was somebody who wasn't as good a George Bush eight bloody years ago! Obama is about change, and that is EXACTLY what we want. Whether you like some of the things that are gonna change, the current situation is still absolutely shit.

[Vodstok]

I think people should vote considering people literally gave their lives so we could have the priveledge.

But McCain! Really. What are the Republicans playing at? The best candidate they could find, was somebody who wasn't as good a George Bush eight bloody years ago! Obama is about change, and that is EXACTLY what we want. Whether you like some of the things that are gonna change, the current situation is still absolutely shit.
Insight from a highschooler from another country...

Ask an American kid about the political environment in England and you'll probably get a response like this:

"Like, i think the King should really care about the environment over in England."

[Doc Faustus]

What about Ralph Nader...he seems to be an option to. But he wasn't invited to the debates.

I voted for Nader in 2000. I might as well have written in "Donald Duck" or "the Green Lantern".

[Bub the Zombie]

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc76/sarah_razai/2008debate1.jpg


:rolleyes:

[urgeok2]

I voted for Nader in 2000. I might as well have written in "Donald Duck" or "the Green Lantern".


donald duck would be a terrible choice for president !! with his temper ? he'd nuke the world the fist time his nephews broke a vase.


now the green lantern ... hmmm ... you might be onto something there.

[newb]

I watched the damn thing..........almost put me to sleep. I don't think either one of them have a clue on how to get us out of this financial mess.

[illdojo]

Obama is about change, and that is EXACTLY what we want

WE ?

FYI - You have a Prime Minister not a President.
First of all....you're too young to vote.. and you couldn't vote in the U.S. unless you lived here and were granted citizenship.

I'm glad you care...but come on, kid...Seriously. :rolleyes:

[neverending]

I voted for Nader in 2000. I might as well have written in "Donald Duck" or "the Green Lantern".

The first time I voted for president I DID vote for Howard the Duck. He was actually running- though I never did get my "Get Down America" button I paid for- bastard.

[Despare]

Yeah, and talking about nothing but change isn't cliché at all. Fuck politics, they piss me off, especially when people don't realize that their fucking opinions are just that... opinion. When you start insulting people for who they pick or begin to insinuate things about their mental health and/or stereotype them and what they believe in you become more of a joke than the politicians that lie to us every year.

[Leprucky Cougar]

donald duck would be a terrible choice for president !! with his temper ? he'd nuke the world the fist time his nephews broke a vase.


now the green lantern ... hmmm ... you might be onto something there.

Which is so interesting (good or bad depending on the person) is America's opportunity for Prez. All you have to be is:

---35
--A US born citizen
---Lived in the country for at least over 14 yrs.

[urgeok2]

Yeah, and talking about nothing but change isn't cliché at all. Fuck politics, they piss me off, especially when people don't realize that their fucking opinions are just that... opinion. When you start insulting people for who they pick or begin to insinuate things about their mental health and/or stereotype them and what they believe in you become more of a joke than the politicians that lie to us every year.

we have an impending election up here - the signs are on the lawns ...

there has been multiple instances of people having their brake lines on their cars cut because of who they are supporting via a sign..

nice..

politics dont piss me off so much - but the general public sure does.

[ferretchucker]

Yeah, and talking about nothing but change isn't cliché at all. Fuck politics, they piss me off, especially when people don't realize that their fucking opinions are just that... opinion. When you start insulting people for who they pick or begin to insinuate things about their mental health and/or stereotype them and what they believe in you become more of a joke than the politicians that lie to us every year.

Yeh, they all promise change but it is necessary and considering Obama himself is a change from the usual kind of people being put forward I think he could bring it.

[Doc Faustus]

Which is so interesting (good or bad depending on the person) is America's opportunity for Prez. All you have to be is:

---35
--A US born citizen
---Lived in the country for at least over 14 yrs.

And richer than God.

[Despare]

we have an impending election up here - the signs are on the lawns ...

there has been multiple instances of people having their brake lines on their cars cut because of who they are supporting via a sign..

nice..

politics dont piss me off so much - but the general public sure does.

Exactly, we wonder why the candidates run attack ads when we're attacking those who don't agree with our decision.

[Leprucky Cougar]

And richer than God.

Technically no...but that's what they often are. Not all of them were born with Silver Spoons in their mouths though, like John McCain and George W. Bush were though. But I give you that. Most of them all are rich, white male, protestants.

But I assume most of them are rich specifically because of the jobs they had before. Most people (although you don't have to but it's pretty sensical to) who run for the Oval office have been at least some representative for a town, commmunity or State. Whether it be mayor (city), town (city concil representative) or state (Governor or Senator) and senators I know make a little over $165,000 a year--that's just a newbie one. Most are around a quarter of a million ($250,000). If you have rank in congress too, say a majority or minority leader, you make 500,000 a year. Speaker of the house about 150,000. More local officials such as city council reps, mayors, and governors make between $70,000 - $206, 500.

But not all of them are. I don't remember the kids name. But one day on the Ellen Degenres show, she had the nation's youngest mayor. He was 18; he turned 19 soon after the show I believe. He didn't think he was going to win--said he campaigned just for the heck of it, and won! So every story isn't the old fashioned way every time.:)

[Zero]

Yeah, and talking about nothing but change isn't cliché at all. Fuck politics, they piss me off, especially when people don't realize that their fucking opinions are just that... opinion. When you start insulting people for who they pick or begin to insinuate things about their mental health and/or stereotype them and what they believe in you become more of a joke than the politicians that lie to us every year.

you are f***ing insane!

[urgeok2]

But not all of them are. I don't remember the kids name. But one day on the Ellen Degenres show, she had the nation's youngest mayor. He was 18; he turned 19 soon after the show I believe. He didn't think he was going to win--said he campaigned just for the heck of it, and won!


same thing happened in my hometown ..
a kid in highschool ran for mayor and won. (he didnt win insomuch as the old mayor lost - a dog could have run against him and won)
Thing is he approached it with interest - learned a lot and did a good job.


as far as the US elections go - if nothing else comes of this - it at least showed that the USA has made some progress finally - where a black man could even be considered to run for president.

there are many people alive today who never could have believed this possible in their lifetime. (both blacks and old racist crackers alike)

But to have had a woman AND a black man running at one time ? thats really something else.

shows there might be some hope for the future after all ... because as recent history shows, rich old crazy white men haven't been that great for the country as of late.

[Vodstok]

shows their might be some hope for the future after all ... because as recent history shows, rich old crazy white men haven't been that great for the country as of late.
Oh come on! They have done a fine job... We have spent the last decade (practically) at war, and war has always been GREAT for the american economy! Hasnt it? Oh yeah, EVERY OTHER WAR was, just not this one. Leave it to G-Dubya to take something that was basically a law of nature about america and flush it down the toilet.

[Festered]

Politics is like ordering from the menu at McDonalds. You can stand there deciding for 6 hours, if you like, but your still walking out the door with a sack of crap.

[Leprucky Cougar]

same thing happened in my hometown ..
a kid in highschool ran for mayor and won. (he didnt win insomuch as the old mayor lost - a dog could have run against him and won)
Thing is he approached it with interest - learned a lot and did a good job.


as far as the US elections go - if nothing else comes of this - it at least showed that the USA has made some progress finally - where a black man could even be considered to run for president.

there are many people alive today who never could have believed this possible in their lifetime. (both blacks and old racist crackers alike)

But to have had a woman AND a black man running at one time ? thats really something else.

shows there might be some hope for the future after all ... because as recent history shows, rich old crazy white men haven't been that great for the country as of late.


To clarify...I hate to be picky but he's biracial...his dad's black and his mom's white. And it wouldn't be the first time neccessarily it would open up Americans' minds to see the possibilities of possible black president candidates. Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton were black men that ran for president but didn't get very far. In my opinion, their approaches, plus significant and substantial views weren't enough to grasp attention; let alone the intelligence, enlightment, charm and even inspiration--something that Obama possesses all of.

On to more possibilities of minority candidates...funny how you should mention how amazing it was for a race be between a black man and a woman. Many Political analysists were speculating around April-May when Obama appeared the projected winner over Clinton that it wasn't likely he would choose her as a running mate; he instead was looking at a hispanic governor of (I believe the state of New Mexico) for a running mate; sharing similar backgrounds/stories of perseverance as Obama (he was the sound of mexican immigrants, was impoverished, worked, went into politics...etc) But of course many republicans said many times "America's not ready for that....we're not ready." Numerous times the interviewer tried to get them to clarify whay they meant by that; but it was implied that America wasn't "ready" to see a scenario of 3 possible minorities : A woman, a black, and a hispanic. Not all at the same time. Like many of you I was apalled by the assertion; and though this wasn't explictly stated it was definitely implied. Many also argued that when Bush chose Condoleeza Rice as his Foreign Relations personnel, now secretary of state he was "killing two birds with one stone." He choose a balck woman--so because she was black and a woman--the goal was to appeal minority issues wasn't a big deal to him. Also in an effort, for those that vote by race and vote according to gender.


Hopefully tensions will alleviate whenever I decide to run for president (my intention is perhaps the next 25 years) But despite all the bad, I think we are slowly bridging the gaps between the old 50s Jim Crow logic and the contemporary generation (now it's more so clash between us putting those in power whom are 3 or 4 X our age whom want to remain looking at things in a manner that is so outdated; when they haven't grasped that this is a new generation, a new century even, and we are in need of quite simply a new direction).

--Shannon

[Vodstok]

Politics is like ordering from the menu at McDonalds. You can stand there deciding for 6 hours, if you like, but your still walking out the door with a sack of crap.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103888/

the most appropriate episode of any tv show ever regarding voting:

"most of the time your only options are some douche or some turd"

[Vodstok]

To clarify...I hate to be picky but he's biracial...his dad's black and his mom's white. And it wouldn't be the first time neccessarily it would open up Americans' minds to see the possibilities of possible black president candidates. Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton were black men that ran for president but didn't get very far.




Arguably, these two did more harm than good because it was decades before anyone tried again. If they really want to help the African American community, they would both just quietly fade from sight. I think they are both embarrasments to the human race; I cant imagine the humiliation they would cause if i were in the same ethnic group.

Personally, I think the 2 of them get "outraged" because they LOVE to see themselves on TV, and listen to the sound of their own voices.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Politics is like ordering from the menu at McDonalds. You can stand there deciding for 6 hours, if you like, but your still walking out the door with a sack of crap.

Come on guys. You all can't be apathetic about the situation. Sure bad things have happened. But in a world we live in, no mater how hard you try to please everyone in a situation it doesn't always happen. So don't give up on it, Just because you feel like you're in a "this sucks," situation, it doesn't always have to be like this. There was a time when you guys whom are US citizens loved your country. Don't give up on what has become distorted and be pesismistic and assume it'll only change for the worst.

And no I'm not talking about Rudy Juliani and how he acted during 9/11.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Arguably, these two did more harm than good because it was decades before anyone tried again. If they really want to help the African American community, they would both just quietly fade from sight. I think they are both embarrasments to the human race; I cant imagine the humiliation they would cause if i were in the same ethnic group.

Personally, I think the 2 of them get "outraged" because they LOVE to see themselves on TV, and listen to the sound of their own voices.

It wasn't decades before anyone tried again...Jesse Jackson was in the late 70s early 80s..and Al Sharpton was in the 2004 elections.

As a black woman, I don't think they can help the African American community by neccesarily fading away in sight; but for the older generations that support them readdresss their supporters and encourage them that America is in set with a new, more concise direction of focus. Not that thier goals were terrible, but were in the light of more personable changes--ie-primarily focusing on ethnical issues for minorities for example, instead of holistic dilemmas America as a majority endure. Not to indicate that race or sex doesn't matter anymore. Because that would be a lie; but again to redirect them into a bigger focus, and develop concise, brightline of potential solutions.

[Vodstok]

It wasn't decades before anyone tried again...Jesse Jackson was in the late 70s early 80s..and Al Sharpton was in the 2004 elections.



Okay, then Jesse Jackson then. I didnt remember when sharpton did it, mostly because I ignore him as best I can.

As far as them fading away, I'll be honest, I dont know how the black community views them, but for white folks in my neck of the woods, they have both been shown way to often to be horrendously hypocritical and have 0 credibility.

I realize as white people we have those who fit into this category as well, we call them "White politicians".
:D

[Leprucky Cougar]

Okay, then Jesse Jackson then. I didnt remember when sharpton did it, mostly because I ignore him as best I can.

As far as them fading away, I'll be honest, I dont know how the black community views them, but for white folks in my neck of the woods, they have both been shown way to often to be horrendously hypocritical and have 0 credibility.

I realize as white people we have those who fit into this category as well, we call them "White politicians".
:D

Whom are classified as "White Politicians" and what are the other classifications?

[Vodstok]

Whom are classified as "White Politicians" and what are the other classifications?
It was a joke. I was saying Jesse jackson and Al Sharpton are examples of two black people who are lying hypocrits, but for white people its every last politician.

Not a particularly funny joke. Now it is a very dead joke.

[Leprucky Cougar]

It was a joke. I was saying Jesse jackson and Al Sharpton are examples of two black people who are lying hypocrits, but for white people its every last politician.

Not a particularly funny joke. Now it is a very dead joke.

Oh...I guess I get it....well sort of...

And JJ probably more of a liar than Sharpton.

[Festered]

Come on guys. You all can't be apathetic about the situation. Sure bad things have happened. But in a world we live in, no mater how hard you try to please everyone in a situation it doesn't always happen. So don't give up on it, Just because you feel like you're in a "this sucks," situation, it doesn't always have to be like this. There was a time when you guys whom are US citizens loved your country. Don't give up on what has become distorted and be pesismistic and assume it'll only change for the worst.



Our politics is shaped by image, not deeds. If it were any other way, Ralph Nader would be a shoo-in as the next president, as he has spent a lifetime working FOR our citizens' well being. McCain offers a continuation of politics as usual, and Obama offers a pretty face and racial appeasement. But neither bring substance to the game. Unfortunately, our nation always elects those who bring us mental comfort, not challenging new ideas and solutions.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Our politics is shaped by image, not deeds. If it were any other way, Ralph Nader would be a shoo-in as the next president, as he has spent a lifetime working FOR our citizens' well being. McCain offers a continuation of politics as usual, and Obama offers a pretty face and racial appeasement. But neither bring substance to the game. Unfortunately, our nation always elects those who bring us mental comfort, not challenging new ideas and solutions.

How hasn't Senator Obama brought new ideas and solutions. They are more or less new reforms to failed solutions.

How did President Bush provide us with "mental" comfort?

[Festered]

How hasn't Senator Obama brought new ideas and solutions. They are more or less new reforms to failed solutions.

How did President Bush provide us with "mental" comfort?

From what I've heard and understand, it will take more than even 2 terms to implement any of them. This country could be in total chaos by then, or worse.

Unfortunately, there is little doubt in my mind that McCain is a shoe-in. Poor white Americans wont vote for Obama, because they're racist, middle-class whites wont vote for him, because they think he's an Islamic terrorist, And rich whites wont vote for him, because he's not really one of them. Hispanics probably wont strongly support him, because they will doubt his priorities, once in office. And moderate and conservative blacks might feel him to be too Oreo to be worth the trouble. Which leaves youthful democrat liberals, age 18-40. To my knowledge, no president has ever been elected by them.

And Bush may not be providing "mental" comfort now. Why should he? He has nothing to gain by it. But back when the evil Bin Laden and Hussein roamed the countryside, he did.

[Leprucky Cougar]

From what I've heard and understand, it will take more than even 2 terms to implement any of them. This country could be in total chaos by then, or worse.

Unfortunately, there is little doubt in my mind that McCain is a shoe-in. Poor white Americans wont vote for Obama, because they're racist, middle-class whites wont vote for him, because they think he's an Islamic terrorist, And rich whites wont vote for him, because he's not really one of them. Hispanics probably wont strongly support him, because they will doubt his priorities, once in office. And moderate and conservative blacks might feel him to be too Oreo to be worth the trouble. Which leaves youthful democrat liberals, age 18-40. To my knowledge, no president has ever been elected by them.

And Bush may not be providing "mental" comfort now. Why should he? He has nothing to gain by it. But back when the evil Bin Laden and Hussein roamed the countryside, he did.

Well what have you heard and what did you fathom from that. Did you watch tuesday night's debate in it's entirety--even the other two (the first one) and the VP debate? It's not that much of a stretch--that sounds more of a conservative generalization of an analysis.

As for poor white Americans....are you talking about those whom reside in the stereotype of the "red neck, cross burning, confederate-flag hanging, predominantly southerners" as for the racist claim you make. Because I know several poor registered white voters who are in deed Obama supporters; and I can only imagine there are countless others whom can match the number of racist ones you say are out there. So I grant you this possibility, but I fail to see the substantial validity in this argument.

As for middle-class whites and the racist comment...grant they may believe he's an Islamic terrorist, that's only a claim out of ignorance. If you can recall many Americans were saying the same thing about Arab & Indian Americans during and post 9/11. The racial profiling for this group skyrocketed and slightly exceeded those of blacks. Many falsely accused this group and still give sketchy looks at them whom don't assimilate to American culture (ie-Turbans, tunics, etc) at airports and such. So if they are still profiled and we still live as we did before (still vote, still work, etc) even if this were true it wouldn't be as big of a deal; for it has occured before. It simply be a phase we become melodramatic about over the course of time. For those who intend on still believing that story though here's some clarification: He's a christian. His father was Kenyan. His mom was white. His middle name "Hussein" came from his grandfather's last name. "Hussein" became his granddad's name when he converted to Muslim. However he was raised in Hawaii and was raised and still practices christianity.

As for the rich white Americans not voting for him because he's not one of them. This may have some validity; although the justification doesn't seem logical often times this is how that particular group votes. However, my intention is that because now moreso than ever, Obama has received the most "turn around" delegates than ever. By that I mean republican senators, governors, mayors, etc that have turned to the democratic party for Obama's cause and because of the new direction he talks about. Though yes, there are those that may agree with Obama but because of the lobbyists and investments they've already pledged with the republican party in the past--they venture out to their personal interests instead of the greater good of the American People.

Your hispanic argument about them being skeptical about his priorities: I feel this is too genreal and can go both ways for each candidate. And why generalize "hispanics" as a whole. There may not be many, but there are perhaps class differentiations between this group. Some may take offense to that.

Moderate and conservative blacks feeling he's too "Oreo"? Did you watch his speech in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on race, early this year. In addition to this one, the one in the summer in Germany? These claims were assertions that Jesse Jackson made about him early in the campaign; but were later brought up and addressed after he made defamatory remarks about Obama. Between you and I, I belive it was just him lashing out in anger as a former black candidate, as well as Al Sharpton (whom were both ministers by the way)because of jealousy they had; because they didn't get as far in the race as he did. Now I can't speak for all African American communities, however for the ones that I am affiliated with and have communicated with the unity remains present; and the support they have for him is not soley on race approval. Because if that's the case he's not 100% African American--he's biracial. So the notion that Obama negators could make about the only reason blacks support him is because he's black is thrown out of the water. Not saying there aren't any of those around (I've encountered a few) but not the majority. And the majority should be the focus.


The younger voters (18-40)...I believe that had a great deal in JFK's prominence as venerability. Maybe not as much because in the 60-70s, I don't think this group voted as much but when they did, you could see the impact.

And the mental comfort argument again...well of course he should be providing it....even though his last days in the Oval Office are approaching it's his duty as Commander in Chief to alleviate any mental or emotional tensions the nation may be insecure about, as they make this transition to a new leader--facing the same problem. What does he need it for? Notoriety. Especially in 2006, with the democrats winning the majority back in the 110th congress...he was in a lame duck scenario...he needed all the political capital he could get to pass things like the stimulus package, etc. Trying to make a terrible situation go from horrible to "bad" which isn't that awesome either. All he's doing now is trying to cement his legacy as being the Prez who got us in a rut but did a great deal to cover if not heal completely the boo-boos.

[Festered]

Well what have you heard and what did you fathom from that. Did you watch tuesday night's debate in it's entirety--even the other two (the first one) and the VP debate? It's not that much of a stretch--that sounds more of a conservative generalization of an analysis.

As for poor white Americans....are you talking about those whom reside in the stereotype of the "red neck, cross burning, confederate-flag hanging, predominantly southerners" as for the racist claim you make. Because I know several poor registered white voters who are in deed Obama supporters; and I can only imagine there are countless others whom can match the number of racist ones you say are out there. So I grant you this possibility, but I fail to see the substantial validity in this argument.

As for middle-class whites and the racist comment...grant they may believe he's an Islamic terrorist, that's only a claim out of ignorance. If you can recall many Americans were saying the same thing about Arab & Indian Americans during and post 9/11. The racial profiling for this group skyrocketed and slightly exceeded those of blacks. Many falsely accused this group and still give sketchy looks at them whom don't assimilate to American culture (ie-Turbans, tunics, etc) at airports and such. So if they are still profiled and we still live as we did before (still vote, still work, etc) even if this were true it wouldn't be as big of a deal; for it has occured before. It simply be a phase we become melodramatic about over the course of time. For those who intend on still believing that story though here's some clarification: He's a christian. His father was Kenyan. His mom was white. His middle name "Hussein" came from his grandfather's last name. "Hussein" became his granddad's name when he converted to Muslim. However he was raised in Hawaii and was raised and still practices christianity.

As for the rich white Americans not voting for him because he's not one of them. This may have some validity; although the justification doesn't seem logical often times this is how that particular group votes. However, my intention is that because now moreso than ever, Obama has received the most "turn around" delegates than ever. By that I mean republican senators, governors, mayors, etc that have turned to the democratic party for Obama's cause and because of the new direction he talks about. Though yes, there are those that may agree with Obama but because of the lobbyists and investments they've already pledged with the republican party in the past--they venture out to their personal interests instead of the greater good of the American People.

Your hispanic argument about them being skeptical about his priorities: I feel this is too genreal and can go both ways for each candidate. And why generalize "hispanics" as a whole. There may not be many, but there are perhaps class differentiations between this group. Some may take offense to that.

Moderate and conservative blacks feeling he's too "Oreo"? Did you watch his speech in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on race, early this year. In addition to this one, the one in the summer in Germany? These claims were assertions that Jesse Jackson made about him early in the campaign; but were later brought up and addressed after he made defamatory remarks about Obama. Between you and I, I belive it was just him lashing out in anger as a former black candidate, as well as Al Sharpton (whom were both ministers by the way)because of jealousy they had; because they didn't get as far in the race as he did. Now I can't speak for all African American communities, however for the ones that I am affiliated with and have communicated with the unity remains present; and the support they have for him is not soley on race approval. Because if that's the case he's not 100% African American--he's biracial. So the notion that Obama negators could make about the only reason blacks support him is because he's black is thrown out of the water. Not saying there aren't any of those around (I've encountered a few) but not the majority. And the majority should be the focus.


The younger voters (18-40)...I believe that had a great deal in JFK's prominence as venerability. Maybe not as much because in the 60-70s, I don't think this group voted as much but when they did, you could see the impact.

And the mental comfort argument again...well of course he should be providing it....even though his last days in the Oval Office are approaching it's his duty as Commander in Chief to alleviate any mental or emotional tensions the nation may be insecure about, as they make this transition to a new leader--facing the same problem. What does he need it for? Notoriety. Especially in 2006, with the democrats winning the majority back in the 110th congress...he was in a lame duck scenario...he needed all the political capital he could get to pass things like the stimulus package, etc. Trying to make a terrible situation go from horrible to "bad" which isn't that awesome either. All he's doing now is trying to cement his legacy as being the Prez who got us in a rut but did a great deal to cover if not heal completely the boo-boos.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk111/serenacce/478A847500069BF20000657722165384960.jpg



Unfortunately, I’ve been cut off from society for 2 weeks, trapped in the wilds of western New York, on a job, so I missed the bulk of the debates so far. They are usually a reiteration of prior speeches laid out in a conversational format, and tend to concentrate on image, so I don’t feel I missed much.

I’m under the assumption that you are African-American(or American if you will), so you must be aware that there are just as many white racists above the Mason-Dixon line as below it(if not more). And while they may not bandy about the “N” word in your presence, trust me, it is used quite often. Sometimes, I wonder myself, about my personal associations, as I don’t care to hear that talk. And if anything, "red neck, cross burning, confederate-flag hanging, predominantly southerners" nowadays, seem to have more of a problem coping with the influx of Spanish speaking peoples than any other group. I am born and raised in New Orleans, a southern city that has been predominantly A-A for quite a long time(all my life, anyway). And although I’ve encountered racists in that city, it is far from the norm. We all grew up together, played together, schooled together, partied together, lived together, and even die together. It is the nature of that city. Laissez les bons temps rouler. Although I don’t reside there anymore, I will always be grateful for my upbringing, as it prevented me from adopting a xenophobic attitude towards other cultures.


That being said, my viewpoints on this political race are based more on a “been there, done that” frame of mind. I have seen rallying cries for change, many times before. R. Kennedy, MLK and even George Wallace(yes, even he had a change of heart, and wanted to atone for his past by doing something for the working man). All stopped by a bullet. Besides them, I have also seen many promising world political and religious leaders come to the same end. So I don’t base any of my remarks on what Obama or McCain or anyone else claims they can do. I base them on what mankind will let them do. Remember, we are descendents of a breed that has a habit of killing it’s saviours. And I see no real progress over the last few thousand years in that area.

Idealism is a wonderful frame of mind, but ultimately devours those unwilling to shed it, much like any other addiction. To think that any candidate has the greater interests of humanity in mind, is naïve and sentimental. These men(and woman) want a job. Period. And they’re willing to pour any honey in your ear to get it. Will they do anything with their position, once it is attained. Maybe. But it probably will be too little, too late. We have too many huge problems building up for way too long, for any bill, law or other bandaid to fix. As an example, this energy crisis has been going on since the 70’s. We saw this all coming, almost 40 years ago. What did we do about it? Bought bigger autos, of course. Found ever larger wastes of natural resources. Global warming? Known about it for at least 60 years. What did we do about it? Create more pollutants, of course. Terrorists? One could argue that we’ve been under attack by them since Hitler came to power in the 1930s. He had no true personal goal for his country, other than mass self destruction. We did nothing until our hands were forced. Surely we thought, no primitive countries like Japan, Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq could dare assault a great power such as us. We were wrong. But, unlike the old days, where we could just nuke our problems away, we are suddenly discovering that they can too.

So tell me, where will Obama’s or McCain’s big quick fix come from? Will either clean up a mess that’s been building for over a century. In 4 years. Doubtful.


This presidential campaign reeks of collusion, more than any I’ve ever witnessed. About a year ago, when Bush’s ratings started plummeting more rapidly than Herbert Hoover’s, the Dems came up with the 2 longest shots in presidential history. Obama and Hillary. Did they think the Reps were in such bad odor that just about anybody could beat them? Or did they want to insure a Republican victory? I’ve seen enough horse races to know when one’s been fixed. In my eyes, the 2 party system is really one. And nothing really will change, until their lock on government is removed.

If you want to drop a line in 4 years, say hello and continue this discussion, I’ll be in Bolivia. At least there, I won’t die for lack of a gun.

[Zero]

wow - that was an enormous load of bull hocky.

i vote festered as the new member i most want to see leave

[Festered]

wow - that was an enormous load of bull hocky.

i vote festered as the new member i most want to see leave


AWW!!!! YOU'RE TOO KIND!!!!!!!!!

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk111/serenacce/CEASLICK.gif

Actually, me and Leprucky Cougar were having a verbal diarrheathon to see who could post the largest puddle of pan drippings .................


and then you had to go spoil the fucking ambiance!!!!!

[Leprucky Cougar]

AWW!!!! YOU'RE TOO KIND!!!!!!!!!

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk111/serenacce/CEASLICK.gif

Actually, me and Leprucky Cougar were having a verbal diarrheathon to see who could post the largest puddle of pan drippings .................


and then you had to go spoil the fucking ambiance!!!!!


Yes, yes, oh but in due time another pan-passing will resume. :) But right on, zero!

[Despare]

wow - that was an enormous load of bull hocky.

i vote festered as the new member i most want to see leave

Can you go back into hibernation until after the election? ;)

[Zero]

Can you go back into hibernation until after the election? ;)

ok - but when people complain that i'm gone and that i'm just seeking attention you'll have to answer for it

zero - over and out until after 11/4

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

mccain will win.

he's a triple threat of old,white, male.

We get to witness everything burn atleast, 10-20 years down the road.

[Despare]

mccain will win.

he's a triple threat of old,white, male.

We get to witness everything burn atleast, 10-20 years down the road.

Who are you voting for as your Governor General? Wait a minute...

[Leprucky Cougar]

mccain will win.

he's a triple threat of old,white, male.

We get to witness everything burn atleast, 10-20 years down the road.

Sadly those are the usual.

What's interesting is that either way, this will be a historic election. We will either have the first biracial president, the oldest president ever, or the 1st female VP...so either way it turns out history will be made.

I try to be as impartial as I can but on NOV 4th I encourage every U.S. citizen to .....


BARACK THE VOTE!!! :)
BARACK AND ROLL!! :)
OBIDEN......08 !!! :)

[The_Return]

wow - that was an enormous load of bull hocky.

i vote festered as the new member i most want to see leave

Really?

I was pushing for the other party...

[Leprucky Cougar]

Really?

I was pushing for the other party...


And if not, well.....Nader's ALWAYS an option. :D With his never quit attitude.

[The_Return]

And if not, well.....Nader's ALWAYS an option. :D With his never quit attitude.

:rolleyes: .................

[Festered]

What's interesting is that either way, this will be a historic election. We will either have the first biracial president, the oldest president ever, or the 1st female VP...so either way it turns out history will be made.




So basically, what you're saying is, 50 years from now, while we're sitting around in the rubble that used to be our great society, cooking our BBQ'ed sewer rat on a stick, we'll have a really great trivia question to keep ourselves entertained.

[Leprucky Cougar]

So basically, what you're saying is, 50 years from now, while we're sitting around in the rubble that used to be our great society, cooking our BBQ'ed sewer rat on a stick, we'll have a really great trivia question to keep ourselves entertained.

Not at all....just pointing that out for everyone. It's just like other things that have been thrown in history books. Such as the Stock Market crash of 1929 that led to the depression in the 30s, Brown V. Board of Education which led to the integration of schools, FDR's reform of the economy with Social Security, Bush's terrible NCLB Act, and his Patriot Act, and his theory on "wiretapping", etc.

It's important to be cognizant of of greatest failures as well as accomplishments in order to attempt to alleviate the future ones, if not terminate completely; but it may be prolonged the more pessimistic and apathetic the people whom live in the country are. What ever happened to perseverance? Did we have good times? Yes. Are we experiencing bad ones? Hell yeah. But is getting back to where things used to be impossible? I stand proudly with an emphatic No! Sure we'll have to fight a little harder, and dig a little deeper, but it's not like it's unattainable. And if you ask me, living with a philosophy where : "it just sucks, nothing will ever change, so fuck it"--is just a cop out to me. Because if that were the case we wouldn't accomplished what we have despite being so young of a country (242 years); sure you might insinuate the arguments where the bad is still a shadow of the good--but at least it's slowly turned to the "velvet glove" instead of the "violent fist" (Barndt '91).

[Elvis_Christ]

mccain will win.

he's a triple threat of old,white, male.

We get to witness everything burn atleast, 10-20 years down the road.

She's right.

[Festered]

And if you ask me, living with a philosophy where : "it just sucks, nothing will ever change, so fuck it"--is just a cop out to me. Because if that were the case we wouldn't accomplished what we have despite being so young of a country (242 years); sure you might insinuate the arguments where the bad is still a shadow of the good--but at least it's slowly turned to the "velvet glove" instead of the "violent fist" (Barndt '91).


Hardly my philosophy, as things will probably change, as more and more idiot politicians bungle things up. Things will definitely change......most likely at gunpoint.

As far as your "velvet glove" instead of the "violent fist" analogy, it's usually been our perceived "velvet gloves" who have done the most damage to our country, historically.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Hardly my philosophy, as things will probably change, as more and more idiot politicians bungle things up. Things will definitely change......most likely at gunpoint.

As far as your "velvet glove" instead of the "violent fist" analogy, it's usually been our perceived "velvet gloves" who have done the most damage to our country, historically.

The gunpoint thing's already occured. :rolleyes: And countless other procedures. How else worse can it get? :cool:

[Elvis_Christ]

I wonder who the new president is gonna start shit with?

[Leprucky Cougar]

I wonder who the new president is gonna start shit with?

Depends on who the new prez is. If it's McCain probably Russia or Iran. Mostly ignite or re-ignite foreign feuds.

Obama: probably the lobbyists and stock investors,he doesn't really like how there's no direction with it

[ChronoGrl]

mccain will win.

he's a triple threat of old,white, male.

We get to witness everything burn atleast, 10-20 years down the road.

I believe that that is unfortunately true. Despite the fact that McCain is NOT popular with Republicans OR the Religious Right, I believe that there are enough racist xenophobic idiots out there that Obama will most likely lose.

I SUPPORT him, but I'm realistic. I know that there is a HUGE possibility that Obama will either lose OR if he does win, he will get assassinated.

sigh

I hate people.

[Elvis_Christ]

As long as they keep the bombs away from here :D

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

I believe that that is unfortunately true. Despite the fact that McCain is NOT popular with Republicans OR the Religious Right, I believe that there are enough racist xenophobic idiots out there that Obama will most likely lose.

I SUPPORT him, but I'm realistic. I know that there is a HUGE possibility that Obama will either lose OR if he does win, he will get assassinated.

sigh

I hate people.

the american people don't vote for the president.

[X¤MurderDoll¤X]

As long as they keep the bombs away from here :D

word up. :cool:

[Leprucky Cougar]

I believe that that is unfortunately true. Despite the fact that McCain is NOT popular with Republicans OR the Religious Right, I believe that there are enough racist xenophobic idiots out there that Obama will most likely lose.

I SUPPORT him, but I'm realistic. I know that there is a HUGE possibility that Obama will either lose OR if he does win, he will get assassinated.

sigh

I hate people.


Yeah, during the week of the Democratic convention, there were many asassination threats. During one speech at FSU a month and a half ago, some college demonstrators whom were racist screamed racial slurs. During the speech he stopped for about a mnute, looked around then addressed his audience. He came back to the podium and responded : "Although I respect your first ammendment right of Freedom of Speech, I would appreciate it if you would let me continue on with what I had to say." Then he kept going, so even if an asassination were to happen, he's not afraid of it. But I do believe his family as well as supporters are deeply concerned by it.

[Festered]

the american people don't vote for the president.

Exactamundo.

[Leprucky Cougar]

the american people don't vote for the president.

Kinda sorta. Population Vote + the Electoral College. Rather complicated system, but if you can't figure it out by reading a textbook, I would reccomend grabbing a copy of the School House Rock Election Edition which was re-released with 2 new songs this year. I got one yesterday. I love the interjection song, and Conjunction, junction, what's your function? one.

[ChronoGrl]

the american people don't vote for the president.

Right, but the oligarchy whose vote DOES count are racists idiots.

Yeah, during the week of the Democratic convention, there were many asassination threats. During one speech at FSU a month and a half ago, some college demonstrators whom were racist screamed racial slurs. During the speech he stopped for about a mnute, looked around then addressed his audience. He came back to the podium and responded : "Although I respect your first ammendment right of Freedom of Speech, I would appreciate it if you would let me continue on with what I had to say." Then he kept going, so even if an asassination were to happen, he's not afraid of it. But I do believe his family as well as supporters are deeply concerned by it.

I am ABSOLUTELY concerned. And John McCain's apology speech this week telling his supporters that Obama is NOT a terrorist and IS, in fact a patriotic Family Man - I read that to be a last-ditch effort so as not to appear responsible for the assassination of our first black president (you know, AFTER subversively allowing his campaign to call Obama a terrorist, "Barak Hussein Obama," and alluding to his "terrorist supporters," essentially feeding the prejudice fire). I... was... horrified.

[Leprucky Cougar]

Right, but the oligarchy whose vote DOES count are racists idiots.



I am ABSOLUTELY concerned. And John McCain's apology speech this week telling his supporters that Obama is NOT a terrorist and IS, in fact a patriotic Family Man - I read that to be a last-ditch effort so as not to appear responsible for the assassination of our first black president (you know, AFTER subversively allowing his campaign to call Obama a terrorist, "Barak Hussein Obama," and alluding to his "terrorist supporters," essentially feeding the prejudice fire). I... was... horrified.

Yeah his campaign has done a lot of stuff...called him a terrorist...a communist...a Muslim. But all elections in October get "nasty," because it's so close to the elections. But don't get me wrong, I don't condone it; just saying close to November even the cleanest of elections get a little messy--whether intentionally or accidentally.