View Full Version : HDC Weekly Debate #7 - Do You Believe in UFOs?
_____V_____
06-11-2008, 08:14 AM
Well...do you?
And do you have an actual sighting from real life to narrate? What are your views on the various theories floating around?
Bring it here. :)
ferretchucker
06-11-2008, 09:59 AM
Well, firstly I'd like to point out that it is 100% undeniable that there are flying objects which have yet to be identified. As for alien spacecrafts, which I assume is what you were getting at, I'm not so sure.
Firstly, it has to be noted what happened a few years ago. I don't know when and I don't even know if I've got the story right, but if I can remember what I was told, an Earth space craft was up just outside the atmosphere, when an unidentified flying object began approaching. It got nearer and nearer until something was fired from earth towards it when it immediately changed direction, which at those speeds would have been impossible for any technology we have, or had at the time.
This could be seen as proof, but I may have the story wrong, and through retellings it may be different from what actualy happened. I believe in alien life, definetely, I don't see how anybody couldn't. This planet is pretty fucked up but we manage to live here, so in a universe so big we haven't even got near to scratching the surface, somewhere there must be other life forms.
As for them using space travel to get here, it's possible. We're advancing faster and faster. All it takes is for them to be a few thousand years ahead of us and they could probably easily get here, and with the governments we have, understandably due to the nutjobs out there, covering anything up that might scare us, we could quite easily be in contact with said aliens.
So as for aliens, I give a huge YES! As for Alien Crafts exploring earth, I say it's possible, and with some of the alien sightings, especially that girl in Brazil a few years back (Who was contacted by the Brazillian Government to say she actually lied about everything), they must have got here somehow. But I think that less that 0.1% of the space craft sightings are actually space crafts and are either hoaxes or mistakes.
Bub the Zombie
06-11-2008, 10:36 AM
Given the amount of sightings around the world over the years, it seems like a possibility of them being real.
But taking other facts into consideration, such as, why hasn't there been actual contact with any lifeforms from another world till now? If they are technologically superior in every aspect, surely they could have contacted or "invaded" (like numerous sci-fi B-movies) us by now.
The whole situation is a paradox. If you are willing to believe in them, you have a huge load of doubts to clear. If you are not prepared to believe in them, you are presented with another huge load of beliefs.
Einstein's theory of relativity? The Philadelphia Experiment? Objects so designed that they fly past the speed of light?
It's possible, you might argue. But is it feasible? Yes? No? Maybe?
It depends on how you analyse the whole situation, and what your ultimate viewpoint on the matter really is.
_____V_____
06-11-2008, 10:42 AM
I believe they exist, following the more conceptual and probable theory put forth by Carl Sagan.
It's only a matter of time, before we have concrete proof of this, too.
ferretchucker
06-11-2008, 12:14 PM
The trouble is sifting out the idiots who report everything they see or fake them, to the real sightings.
urgeok2
06-11-2008, 01:03 PM
no
nope
nada
nyet
missmacabre
06-11-2008, 01:20 PM
I hsve no idea anymore. I used to be a big believer in aliens and the like. Then that stint in the 90's where they faked an alien abduction and I found out crop circles were just bored math students and that fake tv "inside area 51" show. So now I'm a little confused. There's sooo much space out in... space. What are the chances we are the only living beings? and UFO's are obviously real, whether they are alien space crafts? Well that's debatable.
This is a pretty big universe.
But....seeing is believing. Show me proof......not "alien autopsies" or a bunch of drunk yokels. I need tangible hardcore proof. Beam me up Scotty....and be gentle with the anal probes.
Freak
06-11-2008, 05:22 PM
As of right now no.I've yet to see any real proof.I doubt I will ever Believe until I see ome with my own two eyes.
Elvis_Christ
06-11-2008, 06:23 PM
This is a pretty big universe.
But....seeing is believing. Show me proof......not "alien autopsies" or a bunch of drunk yokels. I need tangible hardcore proof. Beam me up Scotty....and be gentle with the anal probes.
Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. He's a clever man that newb :D
urgeok2
06-11-2008, 11:55 PM
i believe there is life out there - somewhere - in some form ....i just dont believe it has been anywhere near us.
why would they care if we saw them ?
we're assuming they would have the same thought process as us ?
screw that - if they had the technology to make it this far (which is so completely unlikely) why would they not make contact ?
for years people have always wanted to make life more interesting than it is ...
pretty much everything that has ever been reported/photographed has been proven to be a hoax.
i dont believe aliens have been here - but i do believe that there are a lot of sad (but imaginable) dopes who've attempted to be interesting to others for 10 minutes by making shit up.
Vodstok
06-12-2008, 05:18 AM
for years people have always wanted to make life more interesting than it is ...
that is exactly why i wont dismiss themout of hand. Life is just more interesting with the thought that they might be there. I have watched Sightings and thought prety much everything i saw was bullshit, but i still want them to be there.
urgeok2
06-12-2008, 06:41 AM
that is exactly why i wont dismiss themout of hand. Life is just more interesting with the thought that they might be there. I have watched Sightings and thought prety much everything i saw was bullshit, but i still want them to be there.
maybe it's just me .. but i always thought pretty girls were enough to keep my interest :)
maybe it's just me .. but i always thought pretty girls were enough to keep my interest :)
How about a female alien.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/rockinmule/lifeforce.jpg
urgeok2
06-12-2008, 08:27 AM
How about a female alien.
if there were aliens (and there arent) and they looked like that (which they wouldn't) then i'd be Captain Kirk all over her vampyric self.
_____V_____
06-12-2008, 08:30 AM
if there were aliens (and there arent) and they looked like that (which they wouldn't) then i'd be Captain Kirk all over her vampyric self.
ponders to self...
"What if I substitute that Lifeforce pic with a pic of the Queen Alien?"
eh...Cap? :p
urgeok2
06-12-2008, 08:35 AM
ponders to self...
"What if I substitute that Lifeforce pic with a pic of the Queen Alien?"
eh...Cap? :p
well, i wouldnt go for it but i'm pretty sure Kirk would have screwed anything that moved.
i heard that he killed several tribbles - and used several others to clean up his 'mess'
_____V_____
06-12-2008, 08:36 AM
:eek:
And there would be little Trekkie Alien baby hybrids. :D
urgeok2
06-12-2008, 08:48 AM
there would be little Trekkie Alien baby hybrids. :D
'kibbles' ...
neverending
06-12-2008, 08:57 AM
Actually, at the Trek convention I went to Harlan Ellison read a story of his that had been rejected by Hustler because of "questionable content" that is strikingly similar to this line of conjecture.
Yes, you read that right- rejected by Hustler for questionable content.
It was about a small furry alien species that comes to Earth, breeds voraciously and is determined to be "the best f**k in the Universe."
X¤MurderDoll¤X
06-12-2008, 09:05 AM
why is it that whenever someone is abducted by aliens they just happen to be stupid, ugly rednecks who have no friends?
don't think a single person with money or friends has ever been abducted hmm...
neverending
06-12-2008, 09:33 AM
why is it that whenever someone is abducted by aliens they just happen to be stupid, ugly rednecks who have no friends?
don't think a single person with money or friends has ever been abducted hmm...
Well, an obvious one that comes to mind is Whitley Streiber- well to do with a wife & child and plenty of friends. One might want to debate Streiber's honesty, though...
Then there's the Betty & Barney Hill case. The original abductees who set the pattern for nearly every case that came after. They were an intelligent, well to do couple with strong ties to family and friends.
I'm not arguing for the reality of this phenomina, just against your poorly researched stereotype.
urgeok2
06-12-2008, 09:34 AM
why is it that whenever someone is abducted by aliens they just happen to be stupid, ugly rednecks who have no friends?
...
some say 'abductions'
some say 'dating service'
X¤MurderDoll¤X
06-12-2008, 09:41 AM
Well, an obvious one that comes to mind is Whitley Streiber- well to do with a wife & child and plenty of friends. One might want to debate Streiber's honesty, though...
Then there's the Betty & Barney Hill case. The original abductees who set the pattern for nearly every case that came after. They were an intelligent, well to do couple with strong ties to family and friends.
I'm not arguing for the reality of this phenomina, just against your poorly researched stereotype.
oh sorry, I'll get right on researching this topic so I can have a more informed opinion. I'll also do some research on the easter bunny and santa claus.
illdojo
06-12-2008, 09:44 AM
oh sorry, I'll get right on researching this topic so I can have a more informed opinion. I'll also do some research on the easter bunny and santa claus.
LOL....You funny, Dolly!!!
neverending
06-12-2008, 09:53 AM
oh sorry, I'll get right on researching this topic so I can have a more informed opinion. I'll also do some research on the easter bunny and santa claus.
Hahaha... so you're defending being ill-informed?
X¤MurderDoll¤X
06-12-2008, 09:57 AM
I'm saying researching this topic would be pointless.
If you want to think aliens go around in their super advanced space crafts giving rednecks anal probes, go ahead.
neverending
06-12-2008, 10:07 AM
I'm saying researching this topic would be pointless.
If you want to think aliens go around in their super advanced space crafts giving rednecks anal probes, go ahead.
Well, as I said, I wasn't arguing for the validity of the topic- just that your statement was basically... well... wrong.
urgeok2
06-12-2008, 10:28 AM
Well, an obvious one that comes to mind is Whitley Streiber- well to do with a wife & child and plenty of friends. One might want to debate Streiber's honesty, though...
.
yeah - he is a writer who specializes in blurring the lines between reality and fiction. i dont believe a word of it.
as far as the redneck thing ... the UFO sightings/abductions were far more commonly being reported in rual areas .. which makes sense because in an urban setting there would be too many people present to deny your claims.
the arguement would be that aliens would avoid cities - and i think certain folks have taken that ball and ran with it.
i know that not all rural folks are 'rednecks' (and i admit to being one to use that term more liberally than i should - because of personal experience) but from my point of view when you combine 'rural' .. with 'crazy enough to try to convince people you're an abductee' the image of an inbred hillbilly does come to mind.
actually i wouldnt mind the conversation changing focus to 'what makes a person a redneck' because thats more interesting to me than phony aliens ... and something i've though a lot about.
http://tig.mu.nu/archives/Bride%20%20Groom.jpg
http://siteinsights.com/images/rednecks.jpg
REDNECK ALIEN
http://steelturman.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/22/redneck_space_aliens_trailer_trash_.png
X¤MurderDoll¤X
06-12-2008, 11:56 AM
http://tig.mu.nu/archives/Bride%20%20Groom.jpg
LOL!
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
_____V_____
06-13-2008, 08:01 AM
as far as the redneck thing ... the UFO sightings/abductions were far more commonly being reported in rual areas .. which makes sense because in an urban setting there would be too many people present to deny your claims.
the arguement would be that aliens would avoid cities - and i think certain folks have taken that ball and ran with it.
i know that not all rural folks are 'rednecks' (and i admit to being one to use that term more liberally than i should - because of personal experience) but from my point of view when you combine 'rural' .. with 'crazy enough to try to convince people you're an abductee' the image of an inbred hillbilly does come to mind.
This does make perfect sense.
Excerpt from the biographical page on Carl Sagan...
"Sagan had some interest in UFO reports from at least 1964, when he had several conversations on the subject with Jacques Vallee. Though quite skeptical of any extraordinary answer to the UFO question, Sagan thought scientists should study the phenomenon, at least because there was widespread public interest in UFO reports.
Stuart Appelle notes that Sagan "wrote frequently on what he perceived as the logical and empirical fallacies regarding UFOs and the abduction experience. Sagan rejected an extraterrestrial explanation for the phenomenon but felt there were both empirical and pedagogical benefits for examining UFO reports and that the subject was, therefore, a legitimate topic of study."
In 1966, Sagan was a member of the Ad Hoc Committee to Review the Project Blue Book, the U.S. Air Force's UFO investigation project. The committee concluded Blue Book had been lacking as a scientific study, and recommended a university-based project to give the UFO phenomenon closer scientific scrutiny. The result was the Condon Committee (1966-1968), led by physicist Edward Condon, and their still-controversial final report, formally concluded that there was nothing anomalous about UFO reports.
Ron Westrum writes that "The high point of Sagan's treatment of the UFO question was the AAAS's symposium in 1969. A wide range of educated opinions on the subject were offered by participants, including not only proponents as James McDonald and J. Allen Hynek but also skeptics like astronomers William Hartmann and Donald Menzel. The roster of speakers was balanced, and it is to Sagan's credit that this event was presented in spite of pressure from Edward Condon". With physicist Thornton Page, Sagan edited the lectures and discussions given at the symposium; these were published in 1972 as UFO's: A Scientific Debate. Jerome Clark writes that Sagan's perspective on UFO's irked Condon: "... though a skeptic, [Sagan] was too soft on UFOs for Condon's taste. In 1971, [Condon] considered blackballing Sagan from the prestigious Cosmos Club".
Some of Sagan's many books examine UFOs (as did one episode of Cosmos) and he recognized a religious undercurrent to the phenomenon. However, Westrum writes that "Sagan spent very little time researching UFOs ... he thought that little evidence existed to show that the UFO phenomenon represented alien spacecraft and that the motivation for interpreting UFO observations as spacecraft was emotional".
Sagan again revealed his views on interstellar travel in his 1980 Cosmos series. He rejected the idea that UFOs are visiting Earth, maintaining that the chances any alien spacecraft would visit the Earth are vanishingly small. In one of his last written works, Sagan again argued there was no evidence that aliens have actually visited the Earth, either in the past or present."