Let's talk about Miike, baby.

[ChronoGrl]

I just watched Visitor Q (http://imdb.com/title/tt0290329/) last night. And. Wow.

The film obviously borrows a lot from Blue Velvet while at the same time pulls out and examines even more taboo sexual themes while providing commentary on not only the filmmaker, but the audience as victimizer.

Beautifully done, artfully directed and strong acting, this movie was nothing but... impressive. It provides an objective an alienated view of extremely disturbing and uncomfortable topics and creates a successful atmosphere of dis-ease. There was not one single moment in that film where I felt safe and, for that, I think that Miike is an incredible director.
I think that with Visitor Q he makes us examine our role as audience members and make us reflect on what we, personally, consider shocking and disturbing.

For me, the last image that you are left with as a viewer was by far the most disturbing of the movie. However, this makes me question, "Why was this the most disturbing? And why did I not have a similar reaction from the first scene, which is equally as abhorrent?" I think that by the last scene you have a sense of all of the characters and it definitely has more impact, whereas the first scene you are getting an introduction, and it feels as though there's more of a caption under an image without any meaning attached to it: Have you ever had sex with your father? You get the image and you get the caption, but you don't have time for the two to settle in. That's something that I find incredibly interesting about this director - He is testing the audience to ultimately find out, "What truly disturbs you?"

The movie is riddled with all kinds of violence - both physical and sexual, with the juxtaposition being, "Which is the worse offense? Which makes you feel more uncomfortable? The physical violence? Or the sexual trespasses? In a few times, he uses the physical violence to break up sexual violence (the scene with the bullies as comic relief from the sexual themes - the fact that this violence is "relief" says a lot about the viewer as a person I believe).

The more I think about this movie, the more I honestly appreciate it.

This is the third time that I've seen a work of Miike's, the first being the short film The Box as part III of Three... Extremes (http://imdb.com/title/tt0420251/), and the second being Audition (http://imdb.com/title/tt0235198/). When I reflect on these works, it's very obvious that he likes to prey on your sense of normalcy and diverge into the absurd. And, moreover, he creates worlds that are not safe.


So.

What do you think of Miike? Pros? Cons? Overrated? Underrated? I mostly want to hear what others think about Visitor Q: Initial responses? Reactions? Why, in your opinion, is this a lauded film in pulp Asian cinema?

I am honestly excited to see Ichi: The Killer (http://imdb.com/title/tt0296042/) and more of his work. Gozu (http://imdb.com/title/tt0361668/) is also in my Netflix queue.

[urgeok2]

I have mixed feelings about Miike.

I know he is very versitile, and i do like some of his stuff.
the 1st thing i saw was Ichi which i didn't like at the time .. although it was ultra violet - it still had a lot of the same corny characters (why are japanese villians always blonde ? is it an anti-west thing ?)

i think if i watched it again i might like it a little more.

I own several of his films, I just go the DOA box set (i previously saw the last one without seeing the 1st two)

I've seen One Missed Call. nothing special there.

I have Audition but haven't watched it yet.

I guess for me it depends on my mood and frame of mind if and when i want to see the more 'challenging' films .. i'm not often into being made uncomfortable just for the sake of being uncomfortable.

if i'm not in the mood it seems contrived and manipulative as say - the flip side (disney films)

so i guess i could take him or leave him .. but i do appreciate him and i'm interested in his work overall.

[jenna26]

I have mixed feelings about Miike.


So do I actually.

I LOVE Audition, from the slow build up to the absolutely chilling ending, I think it is a great film. I never even made it through Ichi the Killer, though I do plan to try again sometime. And Visitor Q I found intriguing some of the time, but mostly, I just didn't care for it. I certainly didn't find it to be a very likable film, and I was kind of unsure how to take it. I may watch it again sometime to see if I missed something, but really, I think it is just not for me. I just didn't connect with it much of the time, though it did effect me at times, in the very next moment, I would just be asking myself "what's the point?".

But I do find Miike to be an interesting director. I might not always like it, but I usually find something a bit intriguing in his work and I will be watching more (I have yet to see One Missed Call).

[Despare]

I think Miike is overrated as a master of gore and truly underrated as a director and moviemaker in general. He continue to examine new facets of humanity and morality while making movies that can make you laugh, cringe, or they can simply leave you overwhelmed. His talent is limitless in my opinion and I hope he's using these films that vary so wildly to find his "sweet spot" and if I'm right, and he finds it, we'll be treated to one of the best films ever. I haven't had a chance to watch the film but I know he's even done a movie examining homosexual relationships in an all boys school (or juvenile home, can't remember). If you want to experience a broader range of Miike make sure you watch Dead or Alive (one of the best endings ever, which reminds me...) and The Happiness of the Katakuris which are both very different but ultimately equally good. In the end I just hope Miike isn't pigeonholed as a gorehound's director, he's good with the shocking and grotesque but that's not all he has to offer.

[angrymob]

Miike is always at least interesting to me.Thats as high a compliment I can give any director.I have seen Several of his movies and I think at this point AUDITION is his defining work.
IMPRINT certainly got mixed reviews but I found it intruiging,disgusting and very entertaining.
Based on his work to date, I would pursue any film he is attatched to.

Great thread, Chrono!!

[Despare]

Miike is always at least interesting to me.Thats as high a compliment I can give any director.I have seen Several of his movies and I think at this point AUDITION is his defining work.
IMPRINT certainly got mixed reviews but I found it intruiging,disgusting and very entertaining.
Based on his work to date, I would pursue any film he is attatched to.

Great thread, Chrono!!

I thought Audition was good but I would hardly say it's the pinnacle of his work. I actually like Box more than Audition. :eek:

[ChronoGrl]

Des - I agree with you on that one. I think that The Box is overlooked as a strong volume in his work. It was my favorite of the Three Extremes shorts.

Miike is always at least interesting to me.Thats as high a compliment I can give any director.I have seen Several of his movies and I think at this point AUDITION is his defining work.
IMPRINT certainly got mixed reviews but I found it intruiging,disgusting and very entertaining.
Based on his work to date, I would pursue any film he is attatched to.

Great thread, Chrono!!

I have not seen Imprint. Thanks for bringing it to my attention; I'm adding it to my Netflix queue right now.

So as part of my monthly Ladies Asian Horror Night, I brought over Ichi The Killer and watched it this evening.

A few thoughts:


As per usual, the visuals were stunning, the characters lucid and eccentric and there is a ubiquitous feeling of dis-ease.
The murder/fight/torture scenes were great - Definitely goes out of its way to make the audience feel uncomfortable, but at the same time emulating classic horror themes.
Typical Miike themes exist - Violence begetting violence, Past defining present, S&M (sex linked inextricably with violence), and the emphasis on power, control, hubris and weakness.


HOWEVER,
This was Miike doing Yakuza, so he wasn't necessarily trying to do something new, per say, but to make a popular JA genre his own. I honestly thought that the movie was slow (typical of Asian films, yes, but I found myself getting bored between violent action scenes, when usually I am captivated for one reason or another). I think that while the visuals are stunning, ultimately as a film, Ichi ran a little flat. I found myself wanting to like it so much more than I actually did (if that makes any sense).

Any comments on Ichi? I know that a lot of people single this movie out as being particularly iconic - What is your take on the film?

[Despare]

I thought Ichi was a fittingly visceral live action manga. The sex and violence was carried out with style and an unflinching nerve and while I think Miike's Dead or Alive was a better yakuza film I really feel that Ichi is a more entertaining watch. Like you said Chrono, there's a lot of typical Miike themes in Ichi but the extreme violence is balanced with some comedy and a direction that helps keep it from being an exploitation flick. I liked it.

[The Mothman]

I have mixed feelings about him aswell.

at first I disliked Ichi The Killer. It grew on me though.
its a fucking crime that people call it one of the goriest movies ever made, becasue its far, far from it, and may leave many people dissapointed if they go into it expecting that, which is what i did. one of the main reasons i didnt like it too much at first, but i gained respect for it through multiple viewings.

Imprint seemed like it existed only to fit as much depravity on a screen within an hour as it could.

I think he has a knack for surrealism though.
Happiness of the katakuris was bizzare and lots of fun, and Ive heard Gozu was more or less a surrealist film too.

I dont really know what to think of Audition. It didnt really stand out to me as anything special.

Ive been meaning to catch Visitor Q, and especially this Sukiyaki Western Django.

I think hes got a lot of potential, and if your into ultra-depravity, general bizzare-ness, and pitch black humor, hes the guy for you.

[ChronoGrl]

I have mixed feelings about him aswell.

at first I disliked Ichi The Killer. It grew on me though.
its a fucking crime that people call it one of the goriest movies ever made, becasue its far, far from it, and may leave many people dissapointed if they go into it expecting that, which is what i did. one of the main reasons i didnt like it too much at first, but i gained respect for it through multiple viewings.


I think that that was part of my problem with the film, now that you mention it. After being exposed to his sense of sexual depravity in Visitor Q and his sense for blood, violence, and torture in Audition, I think that what I expected from Ichi The Killer would be more straight out Yakuza - blood, guts, violence, action, with not necessarily a lot of deconstruction or analysis.

Not that deconstruction is a bad thing of course (I'm a dork - I love it), I think I was just expecting something more straight-forward-bloody.

But I can see your point, Mothman - I think that the purpose of this film is to explore what Miike generally explores in his films - character development revolving around desire, power, hubris, weakness, etc.

In regards to the gore, a lot of it is purposefully off-scene, so it's clear that Miike is self-conscious of his notoriety and also the expectations that would come from viewing a film like this.

[ChronoGrl]

So I just watched The Great Yokai War (http://imdb.com/title/tt0425661/).

It was the first time that I have seen what feels like a live-action anime (that doesn't have terrible costumes). I thought that the movie was - OK. Good JA kids fantasy movie, but ran a little long and got a little ridiculous at time. But, overall, it was interesting to see Miike doing a kids movie.

After viewing, I was left with the feeling that I was missing something, in a more cultural sense. I thought that the representation of the Yokai was well-done, but I'd like to learn a lot more about the JA fairy tales and legends that they're based on moreso than see the movie again.

Has anyone seen it?

[Despare]

So I just watched The Great Yokai War (http://imdb.com/title/tt0425661/).

It was the first time that I have seen what feels like a live-action anime (that doesn't have terrible costumes). I thought that the movie was - OK. Good JA kids fantasy movie, but ran a little long and got a little ridiculous at time. But, overall, it was interesting to see Miike doing a kids movie.

After viewing, I was left with the feeling that I was missing something, in a more cultural sense. I thought that the representation of the Yokai was well-done, but I'd like to learn a lot more about the JA fairy tales and legends that they're based on moreso than see the movie again.

Has anyone seen it?

Not yet, I have seen a couple movies that really feel like a live-action anime but not from Miike yet (remember I said Ichi reminded me of a manga not an anime heh). Netflix has a decent little collection of Miike films, Yokai is in my queue.

[Doc Faustus]

I think Miike's one of the most fearless explorers of gender and relationship issues out there. For me, Ichi was a masterful examination of masculinity and Audition was extremely gutsy. His schizoid genre breaks can be annoying, but they're also refreshing.

[ChronoGrl]

I think Miike's one of the most fearless explorers of gender and relationship issues out there. For me, Ichi was a masterful examination of masculinity and Audition was extremely gutsy. His schizoid genre breaks can be annoying, but they're also refreshing.

Have you seen Visitor Q, Doc? If you're fascinated with his exploration of power, exploitation and (e)masculinity, you should definitely check out Visitor Q.

[Doc Faustus]

I've gotta check that one out sometime.

[ChronoGrl]

You really do. As cheesy as it sounds, I'm glad that I had seen Visitor Q before seeing Ichi the Killer. To tell you the truth, I went into Ichi expecting a JA Yakuza film (blood, guts, gore, torture, fighting, violence), but when I realized that it was more the deconstruction of the weakness and codependence of man with a lot of the fighting off scene, instead of being disappointed, I was actually impressed at how Miike can take a genre piece and make it his own. I think that viewing Visitor Q (and to a lesser extent, Audition and The Box) before Ichi enabled me to better understand and deconstruct it afterwards (as opposed to my philistine friends who pretty much had comments like, "ICHI'S WEARING A TURTLE SUIT!" ... sigh).

[Doc Faustus]

I'd seen Audition and Box before seeing Ichi. I felt Ichi was much stronger than both of them, as the genre shifts were much smoother.

[ChronoGrl]

*bumps the Miike thread that has substance*

...

So I finally saw Gozu (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0361668/).

And, honestly, the more I see of Miike the more I am so incredibly impressed with his work (which I know that I've said before).

I thought that Gozu was incredible - Just as in his other works, Miike is a master of atmosphere. I thought that Gozu focused on a tone of absurdity, more so than in his other works. I honestly felt as though he took a page from Lynch's book, focusing on the absurd to as a vehicle for a journey. Every scene and every character is unique, eccentric, and absolutely compelling. Actually - that's a great word for it, compelling. Instead of experimenting with shock value and the weaknesses of man, Miike creates a pure journey into the absurd. Minami plays a tragic "innocent" hero (Miike always asks the question, "What is innocence really?") questing for his missing brother and stumbling across odd character after odd character.

In some ways, this is my favorite Miike film. It's not pure horror and not pure action. It's compelling and brilliant.

Any thoughts on Gozu? I'd love to hear from others who've seen the film.

[The_Return]

I really want to see that one....sounds whacked out and awesome.

Haven't been able to find ot around here though, as per usual.

[ChronoGrl]

You crazy Canadians. You need to get Netflix up there. :p

Until then, you can watch it from here:

http://asianhorror.forumarena.com/asianhorror-thread151.html

(If that link didn't work because you don't have an account, the homepage is here:

http://asianhorror.forumarena.com/)

It's my source for un-netflix-able Asian horror films.

[The_Return]

You crazy Canadians. You need to get Netflix up there. :p

We have Zip.ca...it's pretty much the same thing.

But their computer fucked up and they couldn't accept my payment anymore, and rather abruptly closed my account. I wouldn't go back.

[ChronoGrl]

So I just watched Imprint (http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Masters_of_Horror_Takashi_Miike_Imprint/70055000?trkid=226871)

SERIOUSLY over-the-top trailer:

http://eiga.com/official/imprint/trailers/qt_1000k.mov

This film was made to be part of the Masters of Horror series, so it serves more as a short film more than an actual full length feature (63 minutes).

Imprint delves into the realm of whimsical horror, telling the tale of an American searching for his long lost love among an island of "demons and whores." To my surprise, the film was done in English, leading to, I believe, some questionable acting but overall I come away from the film feeling pretty satisfied.

Miike definitely has a way to create artistic horror. This film has a torture scene that is so incredibly well directed that you can't help but cringe at its utter beauty (with a nod to the pornographic nature of horror by alluding to sadomasochism and degradation). The movie starts a little slow, but it is the painfully meticulously structured images that compel you through it. Once again I am reminded of Lynch, using uncomfortable sexual themes to test the audience's endurance and remind us all of our own voyeuristic tendencies as well as graphic twist that would make Eraserhead proud. I am also reminded of Kubric's Eyes Wide Shut in its own regard, being highly stylized and tortured, with a bit more shock horror absurdity.

The movie is definitely flawed, but I do believe that its strengths outweigh its weaknesses. Does anyone else have thoughts on Imprint?

Takashi Miiki is easily becoming my favorite horror director.


Edit: So apparently even though Miike did this film for Showtime's Master's of Horror it went unaired, most likely because it was too explicit (go figure; a horror show being explicit).

[ChronoGrl]

So I just watched the original One Missed Call (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366292/).

It was... Ok. For a derivative, archetypal JA ghost movie, it was pretty average. It hit all of the plot points including Pissed Off Dead Girl, Mysterious Past of Pissed Off Dead Girl, Exploration of Mysterious Past of Pissed Off Dead Girl (incidentally, explored by another girl with a mysterious past... And a man).

There were some legitimately creepy moments. I have to admit it; I even screamed at some point. It's no surprise that Miike was able to create genuine atmosphere.

HOWEVER, it suffered from the typical pitfalls of derivative JA ghost movies... The Dead Girl's Mysterious Past is a bit contrived... There's some sort of LINK between her and the Investigator (which ultimately doesn't make sense)... The movie could have ended MULTIPLE times before it did and, by the time it WAS finally over... It didn't really make sense.

I honestly did not feel as though there were a whole lot of Miike in this film. Then again, maybe that was the point... he might have been trying to make a pop horror movie. And, in that regard he succeeded. There were some truly creepy and memorable parts to it which, I can only imagine were completely botched when adapted to the American Screen.

But I feel as though I have committed myself to be a Miike fan. And while this didn't necessarily invoke his other ventures, it was not bad. I give it a B/B+


Anyone else... Thoughts on One Missed Call and Miike's divergence from his typical exploitative and torturous style?

[Despare]

Anyone else... Thoughts on One Missed Call and Miike's divergence from his typical exploitative and torturous style?

I think he wanted to show people he could do a "regular" horror film just as good as his peers (and make some money off it to finance his more unusual pictures).

[Deep4est]

I haven't seen the movie yet but I just ordered a copy from amazon (you talked me into it ChronoGrl.:D What I've read with the tag lines and synopsis, it seems to be pretty disturbing. Looking forward to capture some good stills.

[ChronoGrl]

I think he wanted to show people he could do a "regular" horror film just as good as his peers (and make some money off it to finance his more unusual pictures).

Yeah, I was thinking that, too... What are your thoughts on it, Des? Do you think it holds up with JA ghost genre?

In regards to Miike experimenting with this genre, I think that The Box was more successful than One Missed Call.



Deep4est - If you like JA ghost stories and enjoyed One Missed Call, pick up Three... Extremes (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420251/). It's a collection of three short JA horror movies. Miike directs that third (which, incidentally, is my favorite of the three), which is another experiment in the JA ghost genre. I thought it was great.

The first short of the bunch I think is a little weak (it's Hong Kong horror, though, and with my experience, Hong Kong movies are VERY slow unless they are kung fu), but the second short is by the Korean director who did Oldboy. The film is beautifully gory and macabre.

[Despare]

Yeah, I was thinking that, too... What are your thoughts on it, Des? Do you think it holds up with JA ghost genre?

In regards to Miike experimenting with this genre, I think that The Box was more successful than One Missed Call.


The Box was good but I really think it was overshadowed by the other two offerings in the 3 Extremes... lineup. I liked One Missed Call and while it didn't bring anything new to the table the story was told very well and was much more solid than a lot of those J ghost flicks.

[momo]

miike is a hot sick man but i still love his works . ill go with the bird people of china and zebraman.