Revenge flicks

[_____V_____]

This is in response to another thread with a poll I made earlier in the General Forum. (those of you who read that one will know what I am about to say) There are so many great ones, and I am sure most of you folks know many of em.

My question is - in a movie, if a side-plot is concerned about vengeance or revenge, can it be classified under this category? (If so, then The Godfather can be safely assumed to be the best revenge/vengeance movie ever made)

Secondly, should Kill Bill Vol.1 and Vol.2 be considered as a single movie and not two?

Thirdly, can comedy-revenge movies also cover this category?

And finally, before Alky and paws_the_great go "whoopity whoo", yes its about a project which is currently "in development". Thats all I ll say, for now.;)

Any/all responses are welcome.

[fortunato]

1. it probably depends on how much the "revenge/vengeance" part is focused on, which i guess would be left up to discretion. but overall, i'd say yes.

2. i'd say the kill bills should be considered two separate movies, just since the first one ended on a cliffhanger, they were released separately, etc.

3. yes, i think so.

[_____V_____]

1. it probably depends on how much the "revenge/vengeance" part is focused on, which i guess would be left up to discretion. but overall, i'd say yes.

Like for example, Die Hard With A Vengeance had a revenge sub-plot...same goes for the final 15-20 minutes of Cruel Intentions...can these be categorised as out-and-out revenge flicks too?

And does the hard-hitting Peckinpah masterpiece, Straw Dogs, make a spot in this category as well?

Where should the line be drawn...is where I am stuck.:confused:

[fortunato]

Like for example, Die Hard With A Vengeance had a revenge sub-plot...same goes for the final 15-20 minutes of Cruel Intentions...can these be categorised as out-and-out revenge flicks too?

And does the hard-hitting Peckinpah masterpiece, Straw Dogs, make a spot in this category as well?

Where should the line be drawn...is where I am stuck.:confused:

yeah, that's definitely tough.

i guess i'd say no to the first two. "straw dogs" is hard though, because, while he does get revenge, he doesn't really go out and get revenge. haha, this really is hard. okay, i'd say yes on "straw dogs."

i don't think there's any way to make it easier though. i think you'd just have to have seen the movie in question and use your own judgment.

here's a last-resort idea- go to imdb and look up the film in question. if the revenge part of the movie is important enough to be listed in the "plot keywords" section, then it could be considered a revenge flick.

for example: "once upon a time in the west,"
http://imdb.com/title/tt0064116/keywords

[newb]

Yeah...I agree...you don't want to paint too broad a stroke with the revenge scenerio. It could drive you crazy....I mean you could say that Jason was getting "revenge" on the camp counselors everytime he killed.

I would keep them more in line with the aforementioned "Once Upon a Time in the West" or "Deathwish" type movies.

[Vodstok]

High Plains drifter... Pale Rider... Definately revenge flicks

Sudden Impact: not necesarrily a revenge flick, although the primary "antagonist" is getting revenge. I think in order for it to actually qualify as a revenge movie, the primary character must be seeking revenge, and that is the underriding theme of the entire movie.


Although you dont know it until the end


***********SPOILER ALERT***********













Lucky Number Slevin is most definately a revenge movie.

[Disease]

Like for example, Die Hard With A Vengeance had a revenge sub-plot...same goes for the final 15-20 minutes of Cruel Intentions...can these be categorised as out-and-out revenge flicks too?

And does the hard-hitting Peckinpah masterpiece, Straw Dogs, make a spot in this category as well?

Where should the line be drawn...is where I am stuck.:confused:


I think it should be a basic premise of the story line, not something that occurs towards the end...

Half a movie maybe, but not 10 -15 minutes.

Kill Bill was meant to be one movie, but I would only count them as seperate entity's since that is how they where put before us.

[The_Raven]

Kill Bill is most definitely one movie released in two parts. Sudden Impact would be a revenge movie as would Dirty Harry be (both do have a revenge sideline which drives the entire movie forward).

Putting The Godfather in such company might be stretching it a bit. Of course the mafioso are known for their revenge and Michael does his part, but overall The Godfather may be opted out.

If the motive of vengeance and revenge is imperative towards the movie's overall effect, I say include it.

[Kane_Hodder]

Most of Clint Eastwood's westerns do have a revenge twist in them.
Kill Bill's entire storyline was very similar to Lady Snowblood, an asian revenge film.
Come to think of it, there are tons of films with revenge as their basic script. Make sure you choose the good ones, and not many of those Van Damme and Seagal type vengeance and no-brainer action films.

[_____V_____]

Thanks for the suggestions and replies. I think I am getting a better picture now.

Yeah...I agree...you don't want to paint too broad a stroke with the revenge scenerio. It could drive you crazy....I mean you could say that Jason was getting "revenge" on the camp counselors everytime he killed.

I totally agree. In that vein, Taxi Driver and Falling Down would be considered great revenge flicks...but technically, they are not.

If the motive of vengeance and revenge is imperative towards the movie's overall effect, I say include it.

If you put that down as a criteria, what about Marv's storyline in Sin City? Is that good enough for the flick to be included in this?


EDIT :- What about Carrie? Is that a revenge-driven flick or a girl's powers gone out of control?


This is still slightly debatable...but I think I am seeing the validity of a particular flick for qualifying into this category.

Anything else?

[Disease]

Marv in Sin City definatley, but Carie she didn't realy get pissed off and want revenge untill she was covered in blood...

[Doc Faustus]

All of Sin City is about revenge, though. Carrie more of a coming-of-age story than either of the two categories, but I think it is very much a movie about revenge. A lot of horror classics are also about revenge, but I think still deserve a place on the list of great revenge movies. Remember a lot of horror comes from ghost and vampire stories, tales of revenants. Revenge movies are often about a living revenant, a figure that can do nothing but take revenge, that gets satisfaction from nothing but their malice. Batman is just a more contemporary revenant to match a culture that isn't as superstitious or fanatically religious. These movies are morality plays for a world that isn't obsessed with Hell so needs the punishments thereof to be acted out in a real world. To classify a movie as a great revenge story, look at the wrongs done, look at the sinner, and look at whether the punishments are organic, the avenger feels it and the situation leaves us understanding that this is the consequence of the transgression. Comedy revenge can fit in as well. They still show us people who mistreat people and end up getting the short end of the stick for it. That's what's important. Whether the avenger is Titus Andronicus or Jason Lee in Mall Rats is moot.

[Spoorloos]

The Quick and the Dead is a great revenge flick but what would you say about Clockwork Orange?

[Disease]

The Quick and the Dead is a great revenge flick but what would you say about Clockwork Orange?

in the category, how about Rambo?

[_____V_____]

All of Sin City is about revenge, though. Carrie more of a coming-of-age story than either of the two categories, but I think it is very much a movie about revenge. A lot of horror classics are also about revenge, but I think still deserve a place on the list of great revenge movies. Remember a lot of horror comes from ghost and vampire stories, tales of revenants. Revenge movies are often about a living revenant, a figure that can do nothing but take revenge, that gets satisfaction from nothing but their malice. Batman is just a more contemporary revenant to match a culture that isn't as superstitious or fanatically religious. These movies are morality plays for a world that isn't obsessed with Hell so needs the punishments thereof to be acted out in a real world. To classify a movie as a great revenge story, look at the wrongs done, look at the sinner, and look at whether the punishments are organic, the avenger feels it and the situation leaves us understanding that this is the consequence of the transgression. Comedy revenge can fit in as well. They still show us people who mistreat people and end up getting the short end of the stick for it. That's what's important. Whether the avenger is Titus Andronicus or Jason Lee in Mall Rats is moot.

Amen to that. Pumpkinhead is a revenge story, so is Bruiser. Cape Fear, Deadly Friend, Dr Phibes...hmm there are plenty there too.

Batman can be inducted too on the grounds of Bruce Wayne's history. Although in Burton's movie the revenge background is strong, but in Batman Begins, revenge is shown as a motivation for him fighting crime.

Same goes for comedy revenge. Office Space is the best example I can give for common, humorous getting-back-at-em classic stuff.:D