Horror Westerns...

[Dr.Kelvinstein]

Avenger and I were talking about these hybrids a while ago. Anyone else dig this truly strange sub-genre? I'm talking the likes of Ghost Town, Curse Of The Undead, Pale Rider, and even violent Gothic Westerns out of Italy like Fulci's Four for the Apocalypse; Kill, Django, Kill; and The Stranger's Gundown. Even the novels Dead in the West and Magin Wagon by Joe R Lansdale. Anyone have any faves or opinions????

[avenger00soul]

I'll go ahead and post mine. Ghost Town, Sundown, The Last Outlaw, High Plains Drifter and The Legend of the Phantom Rider. Phantom Rider is one of my favorites. There's no dialogue for at least 10 minutes of the movie. Really cool and surprising flick. I really want to see the Django movies b/c Franco Nero is the shit. Are they worth it Dr. K?

[buddy]

by no means a horror movie but certainly graphic enough with a staggering body count in an all-out final scene that makes scarface's look like a disney production would be the wild bunch

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by buddy
by no means a horror movie but certainly graphic enough with a staggering body count in an all-out final scene that makes scarface's look like a disney production would be the wild bunch

Not horror, but great movie nonetheless.

[Sam The Egg]

High Planes Drifter wasn't horror, that was straight Western

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
High Planes Drifter wasn't horror, that was straight Western

This was a touchy subject with Ravenbomb too. You even spelled it the same way he/she did...incorrectly. It was a western/ghost story.

[Sam The Egg]

They never brought up ghosts. They implied it at the end, but that doesn't make it a ghost story. Also, Ravenbomb mixed up it with something else.

[meetthecreeper]

I loved High Plains Drifter and Pale Rider, the man with no name, behold a pale horse, and he who sat upon him was death.

Avenger have you ever seen the movie Purgatory? I believe thats what it was called, where all the old gunfighters are in Purgatory, and if they revert back to their old ways of killing and such they were taken to the gates of Hell. If I remember correctly they had to spend so much time there before they were allowed final passage to the afterlife. I know it was a made for TV film but I thought it was quite good. Kind of an intersting twist on a western.

Speaking of just westerns, my favorite is tied between Outlaw Josey Wales and Tombstone both excellent films.

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
They never brought up ghosts. They implied it at the end, but that doesn't make it a ghost story. Also, Ravenbomb mixed up it with something else.

Ravenbomb didn't mix it up with anything, he/she was just being a jackass.

It was a strong implication that he was an avenging ghost. The title even implies it. It has a double meaning to me. He was literally a high plains drifter and also high plains (heaven) and drifter (restless and wandering spirit). Ghost story in my eyes. It is an opinionated topic though.

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Avenger have you ever seen the movie Purgatory? I believe thats what it was called, where all the old gunfighters are in Purgatory, and if they revert back to their old ways of killing and such they were taken to the gates of Hell. If I remember correctly they had to spend so much time there before they were allowed final passage to the afterlife. I know it was a made for TV film but I thought it was quite good. Kind of an intersting twist on a western.

Did it star Randy Quaid as Doc Holliday?

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
They never brought up ghosts. They implied it at the end, but that doesn't make it a ghost story. Also, Ravenbomb mixed up it with something else.

High Plains Drifter was def. about a ghost taking his revenge on the town. Although I didnt understand it until I was older, as a kid I loved the Eastwood westerns and just saw it as such.

Pale Rider may have not been a ghost story really but I think the idea that he may have risen from the dead to avenge his death comes to my mind. I saw this as the avenging angel coming to earth in the form of a slain gunfighter to right the wrongs of evil and protect the innocent from it. Just my opinion.

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by avenger00soul
Did it star Randy Quaid as Doc Holliday?

Now that you mention it I believe it did.

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
Now that you mention it I believe it did.

In that case I saw bits of it and remember thinking it had an excellent storyline. I also think Donnie Wahlberg was Billy the Kid. Hehe. I'm sure TNT or TBS will replay it sometime. Hope so anyway.

[Sam The Egg]

There's no ghostiness until the last shot in which he dissapears. To be a ghost story it should be a story about a ghost, or having to do with ghosts.

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by Sam The Egg
There's no ghostiness until the last shot in which he dissapears. To be a ghost story it should be a story about a ghost, or having to do with ghosts.

Doesn't he magically appear in the opening shot too? It's still a ghost story to me. Along the same lines that the Wraith is a ghost story. He's been wronged and he's back to make it right. "He's dead and he's pissed off."

[meetthecreeper]

Originally posted by avenger00soul
In that case I saw bits of it and remember thinking it had an excellent storyline. I also think Donnie Wahlberg was Billy the Kid. Hehe. I'm sure TNT or TBS will replay it sometime. Hope so anyway.

I think you are correct about Walberg also, the cast was pretty good in it, forgive me I am not good with remembering names, but I think you would enjoy it. It was different. I would swear I saw it at blockbuster, after it was on but I know it was a TNT original.

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by meetthecreeper
I think you are correct about Walberg also, the cast was pretty good in it, forgive me I am not good with remembering names, but I think you would enjoy it. It was different. I would swear I saw it at blockbuster, after it was on but I know it was a TNT original.

I'll try to find it as I am a huge fan of this particular sub-genre. Thanks for making me remember it.

[Sam The Egg]

Originally posted by avenger00soul
Doesn't he magically appear in the opening shot too? It's still a ghost story to me. Along the same lines that the Wraith is a ghost story. He's been wronged and he's back to make it right. "He's dead and he's pissed off."

He kinda fades in, but that can be attributed to the fact that he was coming up on the horizon, and they did the 'waviness from heat' thing.

[Dr.Kelvinstein]

Yes, Avenger, Django rocks. The 2nd one isn't as good--but like you said, Franco Nero is the shit whether he's playing a gunfighter, mafioso, or a ninja. He drags a coffin around behind him, in which he keeps a machine gun, and he mows down a town full of Ku Kluxers. One of my favorites. A must see.

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by Dr.Kelvinstein
Yes, Avenger, Django rocks. The 2nd one isn't as good--but like you said, Franco Nero is the shit whether he's playing a gunfighter, mafioso, or a ninja. He drags a coffin around behind him, in which he keeps a machine gun, and he mows down a town full of Ku Kluxers. One of my favorites. A must see.

Thanks Dr. K. Sounds pretty freakin' awesome. I think I saw a Django boxset at one time.

[Dr.Kelvinstein]

Yes, the Django box-set was released by Anchor Bay a few years back. I think Blue Underground or someone has picked it up now.

[avenger00soul]

Originally posted by Dr.Kelvinstein
Yes, the Django box-set was released by Anchor Bay a few years back. I think Blue Underground or someone has picked it up now.

What do you think about the rest of the series? Did they replace Nero? If so, I probably won't want to see those.

[Dr.Kelvinstein]

Django and Django's Great Return are the only official Django movies and the only two to star Nero. For some reason Sergio Corbucci never copyrighted the character so everyone was releasing a Django movie or redubbing an existing Western to seem like a Django movie. Someone even released one of Nero's mob movies as Django in Italy. Gotta lovie exploitaion!!!! Thogh not really sequels, Kill, Django, Kill and The Stranger's Gundown are both great!

[avenger00soul]

Haha. Gotta love exploitation indeed. I'll check into those, though I doubt I will find them in my neck of the woods.

[Ritualistic]

This is more sci-fi/western but a really entertaining movie I love is Jesse James meets Frakensteins daughter....

[Dr.Kelvinstein]

Yeah, I dig it too, Ritualistic. I don't have near as many posters as you do (actually only three originals) but I do have a nice one for Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter and Billy The Kid Meets Dracula. Groovy.

[Festered]

High Plains Drifter was def. about a ghost taking his revenge on the town. Although I didnt understand it until I was older, as a kid I loved the Eastwood westerns and just saw it as such.



Director Eastwood always ascertained an ambiguity about the true nature of the character, and IMO, I never viewed it as a ghost story either. Avenging force, but not a ghost. It was basically a revamping of High Noon, with a more sadistic 70s approach.

I always thought the Mad Max trilogy was a reworking of Leone's dollar trilogy. The format(at least for the 2nd and 3rd, the first was more revenge driven) was basically - stranger arrives in town, plays both sides against each other, gets savagely beaten which results in apocolyptic showdown. Same as Leone.

So, I guess, Max was the Mad Man with No Name. :rolleyes:

[neverending]

Msny years ago, back when cable still played some interesting stuff, I saw a preview for this film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051612/

The Fiend Who Walked the West.

I never got to see it, and I still haven't. It looked very interesting though, and I would love to see it some day.

[Festered]

I think I have, once back in that dreamlike diverse cableland of yore(Christ, forgot Robert Evans was in it, what was he 14?). If I remember right, it was a good one, but at the time, I wasn't much into American oaters, so my memories of it have slipped away. Let me know if you find it.

[The Mothman]

Yes, the Django box-set was released by Anchor Bay a few years back. I think Blue Underground or someone has picked it up now.

Ya blue undergorund put out a 2 disc special edition.

[The Mothman]

Django and Django's Great Return are the only official Django movies and the only two to star Nero. For some reason Sergio Corbucci never copyrighted the character so everyone was releasing a Django movie or redubbing an existing Western to seem like a Django movie. Someone even released one of Nero's mob movies as Django in Italy. Gotta lovie exploitaion!!!! Thogh not really sequels, Kill, Django, Kill and The Stranger's Gundown are both great!

how does Django's Great Return compare to the original, is it also directed by Corbucci?

[Festered]

how does Django's Great Return compare to the original, is it also directed by Corbucci?

You'll be waiting a long time, if you're waiting for him to answer. He hasn't posted in this since 2004.


Enzo Castellari made it.

If you want the most comprehensive reviews of SWs, go to

Shobary's - http://spaghettiwesterns.1g.fi/

One of the best on the net. Or pick up any of Sir Christopher Frayling's books on the subject, like "Something to do with Death", the ultimate Leone book.

[The Mothman]

You'll be waiting a long time, if you're waiting for him to answer. He hasn't posted in this since 2004.


Enzo Castellari made it.

If you want the most comprehensive reviews of SWs, go to

Shobary's - http://spaghettiwesterns.1g.fi/

One of the best on the net. Or pick up any of Sir Christopher Frayling's books on the subject, like "Something to do with Death", the ultimate Leone book.

I was just waiting for anyone to answer it, thanks.

wait, are you saying Leone wrote a book?

[Elvis_Christ]

It's a book about Leone

[Festered]

I was just waiting for anyone to answer it, thanks.

wait, are you saying Leone wrote a book?

No, but he was an actor in his youth. He's here in The Bicycle Thief as the priest with glasses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK0WL-ORD6I

[The Mothman]

It's a book about Leone

nice Im gonna grab that.

@ Festered
nice clip, thanks for showing me that.

[Festered]

Leone certainly had some backward habits. This might explain why the Man With No Name Trilogy appears to have been filmed in reverse chronological order. The most obvious clue is Eastwood finding his poncho on a Civil War battlefield at the end of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. The next would be For A Few Dollars More where a now ponchoed "Monk" watches Colonel Mortimer open a safe filled with cash with The Confederate States Of America printed on it. Finally, A Fistful Of Dollars, the first filmed would be the last chronologically as a headstone during the cemetery shootout is clearly marked 1874.

So as not to further turn the Fulcio thread into a Leone thread, I've transferred this convo over here, sfear.

There are other things in the trilogy that disrupt even that timeline. Models of guns, newspapers, etc. There is even good reason to believe that the MWNN isn't even the same person, as he really did have a name in each film- Joe, Manco(Mock) and Blondie.

Even more bizarre was Leone's approach towards the female parts(what few there were) in his films. Usually portrayed as whores, shrews or rape victims- or a combination of all 3 as in Once Upon a Time in America. Claudia Cardinale had the biggest female role of all his films- Jill in OUATITWest, fulfilling the Mother/Whore fantasy(see my Hitch thread) as the unattainable Madonna.

It has even been suggested that Duck, You Sucker(Leone's only foray into Zapata westerns) may be the first western with homosexual undertones. Homo-erotic imagery abounds(most notably, the egg sucking German general Ruiz). The characters of Juan(Rod Steiger) and Sean(James Coburn) gradually merge into a single personality, which then diverges, with each becoming the other. The restored flashback finale reveals a scene which leaves the ambiguity to the viewers discretion.

By all accounts, Leone was a normal, happily married man. Secret fantasies, perhaps?


nice Im gonna grab that.

@ Festered
nice clip, thanks for showing me that.

Funny story about that scene. Leone had just purchased a yellow sweater(food and warm clothing were luxury items in post-war Europe) and was wearing it under the priest's frock. The water soaked the dye in the costume thru to it, and ruined it. He was, understandably, pissed.

[Devil-Hunter]

House part 2 was good.

[ChronoGrl]

Westerns, Horror Westerns, Italian Westerns, Spaghetti Westerns - I have absolutely NO frame of reference. It's a genre that I need to catch up in, but I'm not really sure exactly where to start.

HOWEVER

The reason why I wanted to post in here is that I thought that Western fans might find this interesting (I'm actually pretty intrigued myself):

One of Takashi Miike's latest film is his take on the Western genre: Sukiyaki Western Django (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0906665/)

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTIzMzkxNzMzM15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjQ3NDE4MQ@@._ V1._SX93_SY140_.jpg

With the title, it seems as though he is obviously playing off of Django in some way, shape, or form. I'm fascinated at what Miike's take on the Western would be, though since I have no frame of reference with with Western genre, I'm not sure if I'd appreciate it or get it as much as true Western fans would.

At any rate - If you're interested in the genre, this might be worth checking out. From Italian to Japanese, it might be an interesting evolution. And if you DO check it out, let me know what you think because I'm a Miike fan.

[The_Return]

...but I'm not really sure exactly where to start.


One word: Leone.

Start with the Man With No Name trilogy: Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, and - of course - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Then go for Once Upon a Time in the West.

Not a spaghetti western, but you should realy check out High Plains Drifter, too - I'm sure its been discussed in this thread already (I haven't read the whole thing), but it's basically a western shot with the sensibilities of a horror movie. One of my all-time favourites.

From there...wow, there's so much ground to cover.

[ChronoGrl]

One word: Leone.

Start with the Man With No Name trilogy: Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, and - of course - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Then go for Once Upon a Time in the West.

Not a spaghetti western, but you should realy check out High Plains Drifter, too - I'm sure its been discussed in this thread already (I haven't read the whole thing), but it's basically a western shot with the sensibilities of a horror movie. One of my all-time favourites.

From there...wow, there's so much ground to cover.

Awesome - Thanks! :)

[Festered]

Awesome - Thanks! :)

Since you enjoy Japanese horror, I'd recommend you start with Sergio Corbucci. Mainly Django and The Great Silence. His films have a much brisker pace and blood content and he is regarded almost on a par with Leone. Leone's films are epic, both in tone and especially length, so it would probably be better if you worked up to them. Plan on 3 or more hours each. You will enjoy Ennio Morricone's great operatic music, too.

[The_Return]

I've only seen one of Corbucci's flicks - Django - and it left me kind of cold. I enjoyed it and I'll certainly watch it again someday, but it's reputation had me expecting more from it.

Maybe that's just me though...you should still check it out Chrono. Even though I was a little let down, it's still a genre classic to be sure.

[crazy raplh]

Grims prarie tales and the cowboy guy in house 2 i like

[Festered]

I've only seen one of Corbucci's flicks - Django - and it left me kind of cold. I enjoyed it and I'll certainly watch it again someday, but it's reputation had me expecting more from it.

Maybe that's just me though...you should still check it out Chrono. Even though I was a little let down, it's still a genre classic to be sure.

Probably why she should see Corbucci first. All other Spaghettis feel like a letdown after Leone.

Another good western/horror you should check out is Curse of the Undead. I always liked Michael Pate in this.... and the cross genre really works here. Check out this page for info-

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.stomptokyo.com/badmoviereport/pics/C/curseundead8.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.stomptokyo.com/badmoviereport/reviews/C/curseundead.html&h=225&w=298&sz=7&hl=en&start=9&sig2=I6RY__y8ac7K2OH1rvFIbQ&um=1&usg=__C6R3X71BO1Y8pcxox4A5RdKfMC4=&tbnid=YE1aziJMNXMsvM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=116&ei=e9buSO_EK4ae8QSMkcSpBw&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMichael%2BPate%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26s afe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN


L. Q. Jones' A Boy and His Dog, although not a western by the strictest sense, does contain elements of the genre and is somewhat of a forerunner to the Mad Max series. It's a great cult Sci-Fi horror with a nice twist ending I know Chrono will appreciate.

[monster123]

This may of already been said but Dead Birds is kinda western.

[ChronoGrl]

This may of already been said but Dead Birds is kinda western.

Not... Really... But it was a delightful little horror/ghost movie. The period aspect was a little silly and unnecessary.

[monster123]

Not... Really... But it was a delightful little horror/ghost movie. The period aspect was a little silly and unnecessary.

Yea i wasnt sure if i was right on the western thing. I agree with what you said though.

[ChronoGrl]

L. Q. Jones' A Boy and His Dog, although not a western by the strictest sense, does contain elements of the genre and is somewhat of a forerunner to the Mad Max series. It's a great cult Sci-Fi horror with a nice twist ending I know Chrono will appreciate.

You know me well. It's a fantastic film and a good adaptation of the original Harlen Ellison short story.

Actually - it's been YEARS since I've seen A Boy and His Dog... I should Netflix it.

[neverending]

I heard Ellison read a prequel he wrote to A Boy and His Dog at a sci fi convention. Great story. He got a great ovation after the story. He's a very dynamic speaker in addition to being a great writer.

[The Mothman]

Not a spaghetti western, but you should realy check out High Plains Drifter, too - I'm sure its been discussed in this thread already (I haven't read the whole thing), but it's basically a western shot with the sensibilities of a horror movie. One of my all-time favourites.

Actually one of the few eastwood westerns I havnt seen yet, ive seen some clips however and it looks freakin awesome. its on the top of my list of movies to buy.

[ChronoGrl]

I heard Ellison read a prequel he wrote to A Boy and His Dog at a sci fi convention. Great story. He got a great ovation after the story. He's a very dynamic speaker in addition to being a great writer.

That must have been amazing to hear...

A few years back he was scheduled for an interview on NPR. Prior to the interview he asked the interviewers (for the life of me I can't remember who was conducting the interview... And I'm too lazy to use my Google skills to figure it out) NOT to call him a science fiction author.

The interview started. The interviewer asked his first question, something to the affect of, "I KNOW that you asked us specifically not to call you a science fiction write, BUT..."

And then Ellison got pissed and walked out. It was live... And... uncomfortable...

[neverending]

That's a perfect Ellison story. All through the convention, whenever he was speaking he would beg people NOT to write him fan mail because it took time away from his writing.

[Bub the Zombie]

For all it's cheesiness worth, I thought Tremors was a great take on this particular sub-genre. The sequels were entertaining at best, but with the catchy background score and the cheesy interactions between Kevin Bacon and Fred Ward made this one movie very memorable.

Another notable one is of course QT's From Dusk Till Dawn. The characters may not be typical western-ish, but the setting and the atmosphere was very stereo-typical of a western. Not sure about the sequels because I haven't yet bothered to check them out, specially after hearing a lot of bad stuff about number 2 - Texas Blood Money.

[Festered]

Interesting stuff about Ellison guys. I can understand him getting upset, because sci-fi lit is often regarded by mainstream critics as cellar dweller pulp.

Near Dark has a bit of a western feel to it. Nice little vamp flick.

[The_Return]

Actually one of the few eastwood westerns I havnt seen yet, ive seen some clips however and it looks freakin awesome. its on the top of my list of movies to buy.

Should just get this set:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ft6VDjgzL._SS500_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Western-Collection-Plains-Drifter/dp/B000N3SSBW

Dirt cheap, plus you get a couple other cool Eastwood flicks. High Plains Drifter is easily the best of the bunch, but the other two have the merits: Two Mules for Sister Sara is pretty good, light western entertainment (Eastwood and MacLaine make a great odd couple), and Joe Kidd is pretty straightforward but worth watching for sure.

[Elvis_Christ]

Is High Plains Drifter the one where he rapes a chick?

[The Mothman]

Should just get this set:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ft6VDjgzL._SS500_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/Eastwood-Western-Collection-Plains-Drifter/dp/B000N3SSBW

Dirt cheap, plus you get a couple other cool Eastwood flicks. High Plains Drifter is easily the best of the bunch, but the other two have the merits: Two Mules for Sister Sara is pretty good, light western entertainment (Eastwood and MacLaine make a great odd couple), and Joe Kidd is pretty straightforward but worth watching for sure.


I was actually painfully close to grabbing that at one time, $11 it was, if i see it a best buy again ill grab it for sure.

[Jason Grimm]

Not exactly western, but it's all i can think of...A movie called "The Killing Box". In a nutshell, it's about zombies in a Civil War setting. On a more modern level, the only one I can think of is "Near Dark"; a flick about cowboy vampires more or less...not really a horror though.

[The_Return]

Is High Plains Drifter the one where he rapes a chick?

Yes and no.

He technically does...but whether or not it was actually "rape" is debatable.

[_____V_____]

He technically does...but whether or not it was actually "rape" is debatable.

The woman character in question actually liked it. :p

[Festered]

Enjoyable rape- a common cliche' in the action genre. The actress was Verna Bloom BTW. Eastwood always had very good actresses in his films.

2 Mules is really a bargain- a Don Siegel flick with a great Morricone score.

[Festered]

Since Lee Marvin is currently up for voting in the tourney, you might want to check Liberty Valance and his gang(Lee Van Cleef and Strother Martin)out in this Twilight Zone episode entitled The Grave.

Part 1: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nCV51JaKk0o

Part 2: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DEhgYtn8wBA&feature=related

Part 3: http://www.fistful-of-leone.com/forums/index.php?board=11.820

[The_Return]

The woman character in question actually liked it. :p

Hence it why it's debatable :p

[Festered]

Soldier Blue(1970) still has one of the most violent scenes in film history, an Indian massacre. Uncut, it's very shocking. A very good film BTW.

[phantomstranger]

For fans of 1950's films, here's a fun little horror western:

"Curse Of The Undead"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052718/


As for "The High Plains Drifter" debate. I remember reading an interview with Eastwood many years ago and he was asked about that film and he said, in the original script it was plainly said that "The Stranger" was the dead Marshall's brother out for revenge, but Eastwood wanted the film to be more mystical, so he took out those scenes and gave the film a more supernatural feel. I personally like the idea of a ghostly avenger and that's how I always view the film.